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>>578455312
Larger picture.

>>578455312
social constructs were invented by betas to find their place in the world and not feel so bad about being cocksuckers like OP here. Science wins. /thread

>>578455312
gender only encompasses what your chromosomes are and it's either xx or xy or xxy or yyx so it has nothing to do with your existential belief

>>578455619
You're thinking of sex, not gender.

Nope,

New thread topic, SJW's are faggots, discuss.

>>578455802
I approve of this

>>578455312
There is male, female and mutant.

>>578455896
Anon, why don't you want to leave humanity behind?

>>578455802
I'm not an "SJW", I'm just not a bigoted misogynistic piece of human filth like you.

>>578456080
Shut up Magneto.

>>578455802
Agreed

>>578455312
I can understand intersex people due to the fact that no one is purely masculine or feminine, but giving it a 'spectrum' like that does nothing. People only believe in the spectrum because they want to feel special in a world where being 'normal' gets you places. They don't want to believe that. That's why I don't understand people that 'identify' as 'intersex', but obviously conform to a single gender. It's retarded

>>578456080
Goddamned Mageto

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>>578455563
>science wins
The concept of Gender has been created by Sociology, and Sociology is a science. Educate yourself

>>578455563
this

>>578455312
Nearly all of your behaviour, and particularly the way you all think about/judge behaviour, is in fact nothing more than a social construct. The stuff that's not learned from your retard faggot peers are mostly just a byproduct of the subconscious cowardice you feel in the face of your inevitable demise, and kneejerk retard reactions due to those confusing biological impulses you can't control (dem feels).

But none of that changes the fact that this conversation is stupid and you should kys

>>578455312
gender is purely physical. you can believe whatever you want about your personal identity but you will never change how your genetics function.

masculinity is the result of testosterone.

femininity is the result of estrogen.

not the other way around. it'll never be the other way around no matter how much you want it to be. take several thousand years worth of human development and you start to realize that gender roles are present not because people choose them, but because if you don't you will be bred out and deemed unfit to survive through evolution. as primal as it is, even though it might not serve such a blatant purpose in the 21st century, just because you CAN act like a freak show doesn't mean you SHOULD.

an entire race cannot function to support the weak spectrum of the masses. just look at niggers. they literally had to be race mixed to function.

enjoy your "freedom" while it lasts, genderbenders. you will all wither out and be unable to sustain yourselves. the history books in the future will mock your failed attempt just like every other massive historical failure.

>>578456385
Ahahahahahaha

The behavioral sciences are barely better than pseudoscience, due in no small part to the very unscientific intepretations of their scientific results by dumbass, not to mention the foundation of morality that all behavioural sciences are built upon without even seeming to realize it

You can't beat science OP. The fact is, men have a penis, and women have a vagina. Most human beings have the biological need to reproduce to propagate our species. Sexual reproduction occurs when a man impregnates a woman and that woman gives birth. This is true for the vast majority of men and women.

But we have complex brains, and some human beings are born attracted to the same sex. They can be perfectly normal and functional human beings otherwise, they are just attracted to their own gender. An even smaller percentage are born and identify as the opposite gender. Now, you can believe whatever you want, but a lot of very smart people have identified transgenderism as a mental disorder that may be treatable, and possibly curable with time. The facts bare this out as well, with many studies backing this up.

Thoughts?

>>578456085
So what you're saying is that you're dumb. And bitter.

And probably fat....?

If you guys not what gender is a social construct that junkies overcome more.
So if you are male and ack like a female, you are weird
If you are female and ack like a male, you are weird
If you are a faggot go fuck yourself

the overcomes of weird puls regection can lead you towards a junkie path, for your choise. You can became a junkie if your friends smoke pot

>>578456385
It's a pseudo-science you filthy SJW

Gender is a linguistic tool used to represent sex, which is not a social construct.
Stop listening to John Money and his ideas on gender, he only came up with them because he destroyed a guys dick and wanted to soften the blow.

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>>578456831
Man, you're wrong because you don't know the difference between biological sex, and gender.

Gender has been created by anthropologist in order to study men and women places in differents groups.
GENDER is what we call behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits related to sex REPRENSATIONS (which implies is change depending on society.
Biological sex is simply the fact that YOU HAVE BALL AND YO MOTHER HAVE A FUCKING VAGINA.

>>578457147
You, my dear brother, need to educate yourself.
Emile Durkheim, a french sociologist, worked is whole life to prove the world that sociology is a science, he created the rules of the sociology method.
also
>not to mention the foundation of morality that all behavioural sciences are built upon without even seeming to realize it
This testifies how little you know about the subject you're talking about.

>>578457539
Man, I really don't give a shit about what you think about gender. But I DO give a shit about people who think they know everything.
I bet you never studied sociology. Or if you did, you were just to bad to understand

>>578456385
>sociology
>science
LOL!

Where were you when sociology found atomic oppression? Or when Anita Sarkeetian won a nobel prize for synthesizing the gamer protein?

Science is based around falsifiable evidence and empirical data

>>578457147
>>578457909
So durkheim was an expert, and a very intelligent man. You can't just deny in ONE FUCKING post the work of his likfe

>>578457909
>Emile Durkheim, a french sociologist, worked is whole life to prove the world that sociology is a science
she failed.

I bet you never studied a hard science. Or if you did, you were just to bad to understand so you studied sociology

>>578458105
just did faggot. Now fuck off

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>>578457909
Lol you would use that sonic picture.


This is mr. Chandler arguing with me?

Pic related

>>578455732
Same thing. Deal with it.

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>Definition from Oxford Dictionnary of a science: A systematically organized body of knowledge on a particular subject.
>pic related

>>578458331
>>578458057
>>578458191
>This guy think he can change the definition because he's studying physics

Btw: >pic related
Criminologie is based on economy, psychologie, and sociology. And Oxford think its a fucking science. You're not ok with it ? The world doesn't care.

>inb4 u so stoopid, i haev al teh knoledj of teh univurs, how can u disagre wit meh

Something that has clear physical charecterists and differences is not a social construct you dumb autistic fucking faggot

sexuality is a construct. sexuality takes place in the mind.

>>578455397
>gender is not defined by body parts
are you fucking kidding me
5/10 ruined my mood

>>578455312
Is gender was a social construct and people who believe in such are happy to declare that homosexuals etc. were 'born that way', then the hypothesis of gender as a social construct is dead before it even left the dressing rooms to get to the starting line.

>>578459029
Dude. Read the whole thread.

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You're wrong, you have zero evidence for any of your ridiculous claims

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relavent

>>578459324
For fucks sake.

Gender has been created BY ANTHROPOLOGISTS, Why are you looking for any biological evidences you fucking taint, you're worst than ebola dude

>>578459029
I think the point is that there is a difference between biological sex, which is defined by body parts, and gender identity, which is more about how you feel within your biologically given body. The idea is that there is no necessary correlation between your biological body and the way you feel about your identity. The fact that society imposes rules / normalizes what is male and female behaviour, does not mean you have to feel comfortable complying to these rules.

I like the idea, but despite the strong evidence this obviously cannot be "scientifically" proven.

Gender is biological.

To imply otherwise is like saying there are no such thing as sexual dimorphism is humans

>>578457909
No. No I don't, I've educated myself plenty. For the record, I called it "barely better than a pseduoscience"; I used the word barely because, yes, whenever someone properly follows the scientific method, it is technically science.

But if you disgaree with the green statement, you're dumb. It is absolutely, 100% true.

For an easy example, explain this: non-normative behaviours that are deemed to be harmful to society are diagnosed as "mental illnesses" that should be "treated (ie:: fixed)". So if you think a ceratin way, and not enough people think the way you do, and people decide that you're way of thinking hurts yourself or others in some way, you can be forefully incapaticatated with the intention of changing the way you think. Because that way of thinking is "wrong".

Bottom line: Looking at a normal distribution of other people's behaviour and looking at the std deviations from the mean and determining the norm is science, but by accepting that there is or should be a "proper" way to think and or behave your've crossed the line into morailty, there's no question about it.

>>578455312
wat

>>578459702
also should mention that the very idea that "hurting people or oneself is wrong" or "harming society is wrong" is also nothing more than a moral opinoin

>>578459912
thats why "undesirable" is a better way to describe "hurting oneself or others" rather than "bad"

>>578459515
bullshit

>>578460108
thank you for your informative rebuttal. it says more about you than the image you're responding to.

>>578459702
What the fuck does that example have to do with sociology? You're equating our judicial system with sociology. Also, the concept of mental illness is a fairly recent invention and has changed throughout history. Read some fucking Foucault.

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>Thinking that your biological gender can be different than what it actually is because your a special tumblr snowflake

>>578455312
I don't give a flying fuck what you "identify" as. Just becasue you identify as a woman doesn't make you one, just like if I identify as a dragon I'm not suddenly a 30-foot-long flying lizard. Gender is decided by your chromosomes. I dont care what you do to your genitals you are still a man if you have an X and a Y and you can't change that no matter what the fuck you do. Trannys are living in denial and you OP can fuck off back to tumblr.

>>578455312
There are gender roles in wild animals.
In humans, as in any other species, males and females have been selected by their partners to copulate during thousand of years. This means our DNA has been selected to make males attractive to females and viceversa.
Different characteristics for each gender are imposed by evolution

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>>578460672
this nigger gets it

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>>578460602
>Gender=Sex
>mfw

>>578459216
>>578459672
you have a penis = male
you have tits and a vag = female
and then theres shemales, but there really is nothing more to this

>>578459702
I see your point, but I just disagree with this part
>without even seeming to realize it
Sociologist are trying to Objectivize social phenomenon. Of course, full objectivity is not possible, which means we (as sociologists) need to be fully aware of our social space, and social history to understand the way we normaly think (I mean by reflex. Am I clear ? My english may be really bad sometimes.). This is called Reflexivity, and it is a well known concept in sociology.

Also
>For an easy example, explain this: non-normative behaviours [...] Because that way of thinking is "wrong".
Yeah, I would explain that as a normal social interaction.
Society is based on norms, you know it. If you don't follow these norms, you become a deviant, and you are punished (symbolically) to not follow it.
and btw, some behaviors deemed to be harmful to our society can be deemed as correct or useful in others.

And I am not a sociologist, I'm just a student, So I don't pretend to know everything about Gender/sex and sociology, but I know enough to see that your (not just you, but many people in this thread) have a biased vision of sociology.

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what does merriam-webster say about it?

>1: sex
>2: the behavioral, cultural, or psychological traits typically associated with one sex

oh shit guys. "gender" IS biological. and is is ALSO a social construct. its both the physiology AND the behavioral and cultural traits.

this is officially the most asinine and stupid discussion I have seen for a while.

>>578460987
>shemales
>guy with tits

>>578460102
The data produced by all of behavioural sciences have and will always have a very large hand in constructing social policy and justice, not to mention guiding the prevailing social attitudes of a given time (which also controls the tides of so-called "justice").

That's why I clarified that I wasn't just talking about, say, the researchers themselves, who do good science, but moreso the practical implentation of their efforts, and the ripples that are created throughout the civilian community who mostly misunderstand the meaning behind the things they're doing.

>>578460987
GENDER is what we call behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits related to sex REPRENSATIONS (which implies is change depending on society.
Biological sex is simply the fact that YOU HAVE BALL AND YO MOTHER HAVE A FUCKING VAGINA.

I just copy pasted what I said in the thread.

>>578457235
Agreed, we don't treat it as such and it's fucking stupid. Instead, we pump them full of drugs and tell them it's completely acceptable for them to be living with that disease; saying otherwise will get you in shit because 'we don't understand the trangendered fuckers' and 'we can't be so insensitive'.

If we're going to do this, and support a mental problem we may as well tell a depressed and suicidal person to kill themselves and hold their fucking hand through the process

>>578455312
>>578455397
>gender is not determined by chromosomes
bahahahahaha
this idiot thinks he can rewrite biology.

>>578461173
>__, ___, OR ___
>Somehow gets and out of that.

>>578457909
>Man, you're wrong
>You, my dear brother, need to educate yourself
>I DO give a shit about people who think they know everything
>mfw

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>>578460971
Never said gender was equal to sex you retard lol.
you can change your sex, you have every right to mutilate your cock and call yourself a woman.
but deep down your gender is still male, you just sliced up your cock so you can call yourself female.

>>578455802
this

>>578460971
fucking this mate. Why can't people just understand this ?

>>578461490
Yes, I am that kind of faggot.

>>578455397
What does gender actually mean in that context. I never got that.

>>578461739
>>578457909

>GENDER is what we call behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits related to sex REPRENSATIONS (which implies is change depending on society.
Biological sex is simply the fact that YOU HAVE BALL AND YO MOTHER HAVE A FUCKING VAGINA.

>>578461248
personally I wouldnt even call those or whatever else you can think up a gender, its more like an abomination to society
>>578461314
Yes there are males that act feminine and there are women that act masculine but fact of the matter is that you're not male or female because thats what you "identify" as
and if you think thats the case then fuck off back to tumblr you pathetic excuse for a human being

9/10 rustled /b/'s jimmies
quality b8 m8

>>578460672
I think you should look at gender not as a biological fact, but a number of characteristics. In that way, I think it is very easy to accept the notion of gender as a spectrum. For example: rationality, confidence, strength, etc are generally considered masculine characteristics, whereas emotionality, tenderness, etc are feminine. However, most people never possess uniquely the characteristics of one side, but are a combination instead (granted, usually leaning towards the ones that are associated with their biological sex). For that reason, you are never really fully male or female and that makes it a lot easier to identify differences among people and ultimately accept these differences.

>>578458105

Sociology is a hybride science that stands between (positivist) natural science and theoretical humanities. Therefore it consists of empirical data and hermeneutics.

Just because you can't see everything doesn't mean it's not there.

Also, warmth is also there, although ut's not there. Checkmate, Atheists.

For further explanation, see >>578458925

this is a load of bullshit, your gender is determined by owning two X chromosomes or an X and a Y chromosome. the rare cases where someone is born with XXY or XXX or XYY etc are the only exceptions

>>578455312
If gender is a social construct, and has nothing to do with your body, then its entirely arbitrary and therefore doesnt even have a reason to exist. In that case why even define yourself by it? Thats something i never got about trangendered people, if you can just decide your gender seperate from your body, then its meaningless so why care what gender you are.

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>>578462024
commencing shrek dumb because my ID is green and this thread is shit

>>578461921
>you're not male or female because thats what you "identify" as
and if you think thats the case then fuck off back to tumblr you pathetic excuse for a human being
I totally agree with you.

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>>578462189

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>>578462257

>>578461896
There isn't even an equivalent for the word gender in German. Feminists can GTFO.

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>>578462323

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>>578462417

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>>578462189
>>578462257
>>578462323
Where is this thread going

>>578458057
>atomic opression
topkek

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>>578462489

>>578455312
this picture is so wrong...
I love how people try to avoid truth just because they aren't satisfied with answer. This make us such an ignornat spicies. We tend believe small lies so we can not see the big ones just because it's easier that way.

>>578461974

meant to answer >>578458057

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>>578462575
>>578462512
:^)

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>>578461974
Man, I love you.

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>>578462635

>>578462042
>if you can just decide your gender seperate from your body, then its meaningless so why care what gender you are.

Good point. I think that many transgendered people would be happy to not be defined by their gender. However, since it is such a powerful concept and does not really have an alternative, it is hard to think post-gendered.

>>578462410
'Geschlecht'?
Bist du dumm?

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>>578462741

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>>578462821

>>578462805
Das ist 'sex', nicht 'gender'.

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>>578462894

>>578461083
Okay, then can we at least agree that "normal social interaction" has a huge component of morality attached to it? I mean, just look here, or anywhere else on the internet: nothing brings people together like having somebody else to look down upon. It's annoying enough to deal with society in general thinking they're righteous in enforcing their opinions on other people; I get truly upset when it appears that "science" is taking part in helping that happen. As I already mentioned, sociologists have a huge hand in constructing and implementing social policy, despite whatever their non-moral intentions may be.

Also, one huge disconnect I have with the behavioural and mental sciences is that the vast majority of data comes from self-reporting (how does one feel inside?) and from observational studies/experiments which are often improperly setup, and even more often, improperly intepreted.

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>>578462221
>Still confusing sex with gender

I really don't know why people do this. Its simple. Its like everyone for the most part has either an apple or an orange in their pocket.

Some people see this and are comfortable with it. Others see the apple and think, "I don't feel comfortable with this, I feel more like the ideals that are more commonly associated with an orange apply to me better". And in between those two is a whole spectrum of other likes, dislikes, comforts and discomforts with that fruit you have.

But at the end of the day, biologically, for the most part its still just these two fruit.

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>>578462974

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>>578463040

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>>578463040

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Good god so many retarded community college drop outs in here.

>HURR my sociology professor told me I'm a beautiful non binary butterfly and biology is separate from how I feel

It's been stated as shit evidence several times in this thread "gender was created by sociologists" as opposed to sex which is a clearly observable trait on a macro and micro level of biology.

Ever wonder why it's only 1st world SJWs that defend gender vs sex? Because people in the rest of the world don't have time to make up complete bullshit to explain being awkward.

>>578462973
Gibt das Wort mal in 3 verschiedene Übersetzer ein und dann sag mir nochmal, ob das nicht auch eine korrekte Übersetzung ist.

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>>578463126
running low on shrek here, good ol Ainsley Harriot next

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Were you born with a dick?
>yes
then you are MALE.

were you born with a vagina?
>yes
then you are FEMALE

did you have an operation to fuck up your genitals so you can "identify" as another gender?
>yes
great, do what makes you happy, but don't you dare tell me with your flatchest and manface that you are a woman when you actually just have a mutilated dick.

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>>578463172
>>578463265
voices of wisdom

>>578455312
Quick question, when you refer to the sex and gender of an animal, do you use the terms in the general ideas of male and female?

>>578463183
Deutsch macht keinen Unterschied zwischen sex und gender. Das war alles was ich sagen wollte. Deswegen wird versucht das Wort Gender zu etablieren.

>>578462781
Their are people who don't identify as anything specific. These people usually just out themselves in the catch all mixed bag of "queer" or "agender" or something of that nature.

>>578462042
Its basically "this made up concept doesn't really apply to me as well as I feel this other made up concept would.".

At the end of the day its all made up shit people feel about themselves. I don't get why other people get so upset by how someone thinks about themself.

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>>578463360

>>578460251
well no, it really is as simple as "bullshit."
you really shouldnt need to explain it

>>578461953
are you high?

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>>578463459

>>578455312
Thinking gender is a social construct, is a social construct. People who describe gender as a social construct are certainly part of the problem.

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>>578463532

>>578463023
I like the metaphor. Thank you for that.

>>578458923
Strictly speaking, no, they're not. There's a reason that we have 2 words for 2 different concepts.

However, fuck special snowflakes

>>578463265
Why does it matter to you what other people identify as? How does this effect you personally other than feelings of "UH BUH I DUN AGREE WIT IT"?

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>>578463619
"Give your meat a good ol' rub"

>>578463392
Im Englischen gab es da bis vor ein paar Jahren auch keine Unterscheidung.
Aber ich sehe jetzt, was du meintest.

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>>578463721

>OP posts SJW shit on 4chan
>OP doesn't post SJW shit on Tumblr
>OP most likely wears safety helmet

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>>578463794

Reminder that there a people on tumblr who identify as animals and/or inanimate objects. This is called [insert subject here]-kin.

If there is any explanation for someone feeling like they're a textbook in a human body, as if they're the Son of the Ethereal Textbook God, I'd be glad to hear it.

Point being: how are faggotkin and transpeople any different. Can I be supported in my endeavours if I identify as Hitler and want to kill all the Jews? Even if biologically I'm not a white male.

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>>578463854
my pops always said if you dont like it, post some shit

>>578463514
no, just not very good at explaining

>>578455312
John Money was a failure and a child abuser.

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>>578464057
reach for the stars, you can do what you put your mind to anon

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>>578463023
This a million time. I love you.

>>578463172
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hijra_(South_Asia)

What the fuck, India?

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>>578464174

>>578463172
>1st world problems
People deal with the issues they experience everyday. We can't do shit to help africans or rape victims in India except blindly donate money.
People sort out their own problems with their own neighbours.

>>578455312
No.
Gender isn't something for your self. It is what other poeple see you as. You can think you are a nigger, but when you are white you are just some idiot playing like he's a nigger.
The same goes for gender. Yeah you can think or wish you were female, but that doesn't make you female. You are still treated as a male, because other people identify you as a male. Gender is a social construct, but that social construct is based on our biology. That's why women are sluts while men aren't, it's why children are seen as something "valuable".
You can get an operation to look like a female and you will probably be treated as such, but don't fucking expect people to first ask what gender you would like to be reffered to, they will make assumptions on how you look. You can really think what ever you want about yourself, but other peolpe can not be expected to view you in the same way.
We just have to stop telling our children "Wishes come true" and instead tell them "If you have a wish work for it, untill you reach it". That's the problem. People like to be passive, "Hey look I look exactly like every other male, but I wish to be treated as a wyman because my butthole is wider than the blackhole in the center of our galaxy." Instead you have to communicate to otherpeople that you want to be treated as woman. Get a fucking operation and therapy. Yeah they cost a shit ton of money, but so does everything. You have to look if it is worth the money to you to be treated as a woman.

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>>578464237
my current wallpaper

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>>578456831
>gender is purely physical. you can believe whatever you want about your personal identity but you will never change how your genetics function.

Uh duh? That's not an argument for your cause anon. Trans people have been scientifically proven to have brains that produce the hormone that matches their desired gender. I know a trans dude, black. He's a fucking BRO. He's not even on testosterone yet, and he knocks ALL the bitches in gym around like rag dolls. He looks like a dude, talks like a dude, acts like a dude, hasn't ONCE acted bitchy or emotional during a period, and when we talk about sex he says he'd rather take it in the ass or fuck a guy with a strapon than use the vagina he unfortunately has.

I'm going to assume you're a biological male anon. Now I'm also going to assume you identify as a male as well. That's a safe fucking bet since only 2% of people are trans or intersex. Go take estrogen pills for a month. You will want to KILL YOURSELF in about a week. Promise. It's simple neuroscience. Yet trans people THRIVE when given the hormones they want. Why the fuck is that? SCIENCE BITCH, IT WORKS.

>>578461953
You are exactly what feminazis want. You have listened to them and let their fucking retarded ideals take over your mind. Gender is simply decided by your genetic makeup, your chromosomes. Its simple biology. Thinking it is a decision made by you based on how you feel is stupid and wrong.

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>>578463718
dumbshits like you keep misinterpreting my shit.
I don't fucking care what other people call themselves. But to say that the concept of gender as a whole is wrong and the opposite of what it actually is genetically, is a load a horseshit
go back to tumblr bitch.

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>>578464315

Gender is a social construct to which sex plays a variably important, but not definite, biological role.

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>>578464391

>>578464148
I don't really know who this guy is so I find it funny that the idea of gender as a social construct is related to this guy rather than Judith Butler.

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>>578464462
well fuck, ainsley folder was smaller than i thought, on to more random shit i guess

>>578455397
So the point of that picture is that gender is a useless concept. We should stick to Sex for identification then.

>>578464369
See
>>578464323

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>>578464571

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>>578464667

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>>578464721
>yfw duane got more pussy in one day than you will ever get in your lifetime

>>578455312
Bullshit. Males are male, females are females, straight is normal and queer isn't, and bisexuality and transgender are examples of pathetic people ashamed of their sexuality. Bi and granny's need to be exterminated.

>>578464651
Are all of you retarded troglodytes inbred rednecks who don't get this shit or what? I seriously don't understand why you all are so terrified of change to the point that you go blind with rage.

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>>578464808

>>578463371
Well?

>>578464323
Please post links to your proof. I am very interested to see these articles relating to hormones changing to what a person desires or believes.

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>>578464854
liberals can lick my cack

>>578464369
>But to say that the concept of gender as a whole is wrong

I'm not saying its wrong, just a lot broader than people feel comfortable with. Which is what leads to all the HURF DURFing and line pissing thats happening in this thread. People screaming "YOU'RE NOT A WOMAN UNLESS I THINK YOU'RE A WOMAN" when in reality, what someone identifies as doesn't really have anything to do with them.

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>>578465005

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>>578464653
This I knew already, but I'm not seeing how matching hormones to the gender you want to be will actually change you into that specific gender.
If I were to begin taking estrogen, I would still be a male, albeit with high estrogen levels.

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>>578465069

Sex, that is, being male or female, is determined by genetics.
Gender is determined by your sex.

You have no choice in the matter. Quite whining.

>>578457147

Wow this is a super beta comment.

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>>578464849
>bisexuality and transgender are examples of pathetic people ashamed of their sexuality.
Wat.
Bi people are ashamed of their sexuality? Uh right lol. Because Marlon Brando was so ashamed of fucking guys and girls right?
>granny's need to be exterminated.
What the hell do you have against grandma's you sick bastard?

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>>578465146

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>>578462684
Oh yeah, this comment on /b/ makes years of study worthy!

Now I can die in peace.

>>578464849
If gay isn't normal then how come animals do gay stuff all the time? Let me guess, it's their choice

>>578464854
We routinely mock those who are mentally ill. Are you new here or something? Maybe you should try to use more big words while insulting people. I bet it's super effective.

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>>578465214
>this whole thread

It's quite obviously not a social construct. There have been many boys who have had accidents or deformities to their genitalia and the suggested course of action was to raise them as female.

If this was simply a social construct then they would conform based on how they were raised and treated. Except, it doesn't work that way, even being raised female, and believing they were female, they still identified as male. This tends to end disastrously as in the case of David Reimer, who eventually committed suicide.

Further study into this was done by Milton Diamond, Ph.D. and H. Keith Sigmundson, M.D. and their findings were to this similar conclusion.

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>>578465297

>>578464849
Why are you so mad at what other people do ? Just live them the fuck be, they don't do any harm.

>>578464987
http://www.turing.org.uk/bio/part8.html
This man was forced to take oestrogen for being caught having a relationship with a man. He killed himself shortly after.

>>578455312
Da fuck is this?
Did anyone bother to notify the rest of the animal kingdom on this planet that the new species on the block is redefining billions of years of established fact?

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>>578465414
faggot

>>578464854
If anyone can identify themselves as anything with no questions asked, what's the usefulness of gender then?

Now that women can now have dicks and balls, whats the point of even using the term to describe them. Or do you expect all heterosexual men to suddenly develop a taste for the cock?

>>578455312
Gender is and isn't a social construct it isnt in the way that there are two genders male and female, and it is becae of gender rolls. Now go back to tumblr fag

>>578455312
get the fuck out bitch nigga
1/10

>>578461953
So if i jump up and down on dragon dildos all day i guess i could get away with calling myself part dragon?

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>>578465439
well, looks like this is the end of my dump, my grossly obese boyfriend came home and i can't wait to take his herpes infested chode up my dickhole. bye

>>578455312
Your entire life is influenced by the hormones pumping through your body. Testosterone has similar side effects for most men ergo gender is natural. QED.

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>>578465005
Guess that answers my question. How do you get internet to go to /b/ from your trailer anon?

>>578465414
Thats not what I was asking links to. I'm pretty sure what I was looking for was clearly outlined in my post. Try again.

>>578458925

Sociology, science, LOL! More like sociologists want to feel like scientists, and we let them just so they can feel better about themselves, but we all know they're not.

tl;dr ...we don't need sociologists.

>>578465441
this
I declare myself black, does that mean i should get affirmative action?
I declare myself a dolfin as well now

>>578455312
gender ROLES are a social construct, and defying those role sgiven to you in preference for roles given to others, or a mixture, would result "identifying" as not your own gender.
people who dont identify as the gender they are probably can be explained in this way. the reasons are varied though

>>578463360

Continue the dream

>>578465137
Because you're NORMAL. You would develop tits, but you'd also want to fucking kill yourself because that's what a hormonal imbalance DOES. Yet trans people DON'T. That's what I'm talking about it. DUH

>>578459662
Wow, I thought this was some sort of cringe post, but you actually seem to be serious about this.
If you can't find the biological evidence that identifies you as male or female I have some bad news for you mate.

Biological gender is not a social construct, save very few special cases. This can actually be observed in many different ways, for example, females exposed to high amounts of androgen prenatally will show masculine characteristics. Damage to the hypothalamus can also cause gender identity crises.

Other studies on gender show that males will choose more object based toys, like trucks or cars, while females will choose dolls and other such feminine toys. This also bridges the gap between species, vervet monkeys, when given these toys, tend to choose toys that would be "stereotypical" of their gender, IE: Male monkeys will choose masculine toys such as objects with wheels, while females will choose dolls and plush toys.

The female and male brain are pretty different, as already stated the hypothalamus changes significantly between genders, as well as the prefontal cortex, and brain densities. Of course the brain was size adjusted when these differences were studied.

Not to mention the numerous studies done on people who had their genders switched at birth for one reason or another, they often report depression, gender identity crises, ect.

It's pretty easy to see gender is not a social construct.

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>>578465523
You become a gaping dragon I guess

I agree with that.
People are born with penis/vagina which effects their hormones and thus to a certain degree also their behaviour/personality.
So you could build stereotypes, but as with all stereotypes they don't fit to anyone - but honestly who cares. Everyone should behave how the fuck he wants, who cares.
All this gender shit is the stupid try to make every1 to fit in some stupid category.
The whole 'gender discussion' is shit.

>>578463172
Sadly it spreaded to all the west

>>578465270
Mocking retarded people has nothing to do with being so stupid you can't understand the difference between, gender, sex and identity.
Say nothing of how PROUD these ignorant fuckwits are of being so fucking stupid. You throw science at them, and they come back with "hurr durr it's a leebrul agenda hurr durr."

>>578465781
Why do female chimps play with dolls and the males play with trucks, when given the choice? How have these gender rolls been passed to a different species?

>>578455397
>not just male or female
>not defined by body parts
>not determined by chromosomes
decent bait

>>578455732
>You're thinking of sex, not gender.
You'd LIKE to believe that.
You need a new word for your "gender wish/expression" idea.

>>578465790
I bet you do.

>>578465439
>can't argue away history and facts
>better call him a faggot
>this means I win right?!
No it doesn't.

>>578465713
Social science wins because Economy.

>>578465441
>If anyone can identify themselves as anything with no questions asked, what's the usefulness of gender then?
When did anyone say this? What are you even trying to say?
>Now that women can now have dicks and balls, whats the point of even using the term to describe them. Or do you expect all heterosexual men to suddenly develop a taste for the cock?
Uh no? You don't want to deal with a trans woman, then just don't fuck one! How hard is that to do?

>>578456085
go back to tumblr faggot

>>578465523
The point of a spectrum is that it has two ends, in our case being completely male and completely female. Everything that falls in between is a combination of the two. Identifying with a dragon therefore mean you are drifting away from the spectrum. So I would say you could not get away with that.

However, some other anon mentioned in this thread that there are now people who identify with inanimate objects. I'm not really sure what to think of that at this point, but I'm leaning towards bullshit at this point. But then again, they're not bothering me, so live and let live.

>>578465704
Then you're too stupid to get it. You can do your own research then. Till then, you're not any more of an authority on gender identity, or what hormones do and do not do, than anyone else in this thread.

>>578466053
Maybe cause their parents/ads told them these were a boy's/ a girl's toys. As a child, you want to do well, so do you as you're said, even without noticing.
If what you're saying is true even on a "biological" issue, that'd not a problem. Gender "structure" is just here to tell people to live their life they way they want, so if a boy enjoys himself playing with "manly" toys or "girly" toys, he shouldn't be mocked for his choice.

>>578457909
>need to educate yourself
definitely SJW

>>578464298
>>578462781

I understand what you are saying, but I would ask you: does the gender is NECESSARY related to sexual orientation ?

MY ANSWER would be no, because gender is a way to describe how much "man" or "woman" there is in one human being.
Because like I said before:
Gender is the name we give to behaviors, psychological tendances and psysical traits related to biological sex (By related I mean "deemed as Feminine" in the case of feminity, and "deemed as masculine" in the case masculinity")

So when I see this:
>>578464298
>Yeah you can think or wish you were female, but that doesn't make you female
It's not only about that, and I think these are psychological "issues". These people must they are beings trapped in wrongs bodies, this doesn't sound like as a social issue to me, it's completely psychological.

Like I said before in this thread, and like I repeated again and again, gender has been created by Anthropologist in order to describe social interactions between men and women.
So yeah, I don't think gender is related to sexual orientation. I think it's about how feminine or masculine you are, and this is totally socialy constructed, because these behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits are taught by the society (little boys like blue, little girls like pink, little boy shall open his fucking mouth more often that little girls, who shall shut the fuck up)

>>578465846
No you didn't understand.
What am I telling you, is thats Gender DOESN'T MEAN biological sexe.
There is biological evidences that identifies me as a male, because there is biological evidences that identifies one's biological sexe.
BUT there is not biological evidences that identifies one's gender, because, and I repeated myself on this whole thread, GENDERS are behaviors, psychological tendances and physical traits that are related to biological sex. You follow me m8 ?

>>578455802
SJW are the new Christians.
We had the crusades (stupid people killing other people over a belief contradicted by science).
Now we have feminist (stupid people believing that genders are equal, there are more than 2 genders, gender is a choice, the patriachy exists)
Stupid people will always find some way to fit in.
To bad there are so many stupid people.

Now OP should go back to tumblr and post about being triggered.

>>578466418
>When did anyone say this? What are you even trying to say?
What are the standards to determine one's gender? That's what I'm asking, because so far all I have seen is "If you feel that way that's what you are".

>Uh no? You don't want to deal with a trans woman, then just don't fuck one! How hard is that to do?
So you think trans-women shouldn't be identified as simple "women"?

>>578465729
LOL wow you're stupid. You can't identify as black because you don't have black skin.
It doesn't work like that.
If someone has a female brain, but a penis they can identify as female or whatever they want. Gender has way less bearing on society than race currently.
Please though, for the sake of everyone go walk into a hood and declare yourself black. See how well that goes for you. OR better yet jump into the ocean and see how your dolphin identity helps you breath water. Fucking idiot.

If someone can identify as a different gender. Can I identify as a black guy?

>>578466048
Name calling is usually a pretty good sign that you have a shit argument. If you are unable to convince people of the validity of your argument, maybe the blame lies with you for being a poor communicator.

Maybe you need to adjust your own mental gymnastics routine to include believing people are agreeing with you when they say youre wrong?

>>578455312
>not defined by body parts
gr8 b8 m8 I r8 8/8

>>578455312
Gender is what genitals you were born with.


I don't give a shit if you don't agree with what gender you are and if you want to identify as the other that's fine- but that doesn't change what gender you were born as.

You're not going to convince me otherwise with the whole Tumblr LGBTQ shit either. I give no fucks what you believe, but you're not convincing me if you were born with a dick that you're not male.

Once male/female always male/female IMO.

>>578455802
what's there to discuss though?

Gender is a social construct. The word didn't begin to differentiate between the word sex until the 50s and wasn't widespread until the 70's. Just because you call an apple an orange doesn't make it true. And even if you convince most of the word to start calling apples oranges, that apple is still an apple. You faggots can call yourselves whatever you want. Be my fucking guest. Stop trying to force your dillusions on the rest of us. "I wanna be a girl! Someone sexually abused me, maybe I didn't get enough hormones during womb development or maybe I got too many, maybe I'm just a fucking faggot. I don't feel normal so I'll join with all the other faggots and make normal people the abnormal ones! We'll even call people who are normal something else!" Serious question: what the fuck does CIS mean?

Only gay if you desire man cock not she cock.

No. This thread is stupid. Gender is a hard reality, cock=male vag=fem. What you choose to do with that, what you want to have, what you want to be, is absolutely diferent. Its like if I got myself covered in tree bark and said "my species is treekind, I am not human."
What OP says is retarded and all who agree with him should feel bad.

>>578466764
>genders are equal
because they aren't ?
>there are more than 2 genders, gender is a choice
Who cares
>the patriachy exists
Without trying to sound obnoxious, learn what cultural marxism is.

>>578466712
The psychology of sex is closely related to your genitals, as mentioned in my previous post the mind is heavily effected by what sex you are.

This is actually pretty odd that you would want to accept this, seeing as how these people have real problems, however this brings us to the age old question of if we should fix broken people if they like it or not.

gender is not a state of mind, it's what you have between your legs.

>>578466814
>Female brain
kek

>>578459662
you said it was sociologists

now its anthropologists?

next is it gonna be some sociologist that took some anthropology classes?

>>578466890
male/female =/= masculine/feminine

>>578455397
I think it's time you went back to tumblr.

>>578466979
cis is a short-hand for cisgender, it means you are attracted to the other sex.

>>578467190
Because they are not.
Indeed.
Do I really need to point out the obvious?

I fail tomsee the link to an imaginary fairytale called the patriachy and Marxism

>>578466779
>So you think trans-women shouldn't be identified as simple "women"?
No, I was differentiating for your benefit given that you're an idiot. Other than that I don't bother to.
>What are the standards to determine one's gender? That's what I'm asking, because so far all I have seen is "If you feel that way that's what you are"
Then you haven't been paying attention. If you're trans then you are the gender you're actively trying to transition to. Do you have even the slightest idea what these people do to themselves? NO one but people with severe conflict would actually go through with this shit.
But here you are all "hurr durr it's gawnna be chaos if we aren't totally close minded bigots!"

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If you have a penis, you are male.
If you have a vagina, you are female.

No matter how much you scream anything different, you're just lying, and the rest of us aren't buying your immature bullshit.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T3wcxHiorJ4

>>578465414
>oestrogen
the chemical the converts you into a motherfucking ostrich

>guise luv me for who i am
>jerry youre not a fucking bird
>yes i am

>>578467230
>The psychologye of sex is closely related to your genitals
Yes, but I am not talking about psychology, I'am talking about sociology, and that make a HUGE difference. Maybe that's where we have difficulties to speak about the same subject

>>578459662
The fuck do researchers of human history have to do with genders?

Gender was created by evolution.
Penis = Male, Vagina = Female

This is the way of nature and is an open and shut case. In fact it's more of a scientific approach then "Society created genders and Sociology and Anthropoligy are exact sciences!".

They're not and Gender is not a human creation.

>implying believing youre something you arent isnt a mental illness

>>578466814
The whooshing sound you are hearing his that guys point going over your head.

>You can't identify as black because you don't have black skin.
>It doesn't work like that.
>If someone has a female brain, but a penis they can identify as female or whatever they want.
You contradict your point. If you don't have black skin, you cant be black. If you don't have a vagina, you can very easily be a woman by claiming i am a woman. Are you fucking retarded?

>>578467586
Not that I agree in the least with OP but Oestrogen is a correct spelling.

>>578466859
>Name calling is usually a pretty good sign that you have a shit argument
> arguing about formal debate etiquette on /b/
No. It's actually a pretty good sign that I'm just irritated by how stupid you and the rest of humanity is.

>>578455312
gender is not a social construct
gender identity is a social construct
gender is how you body wires you up regardless of your sex (basically, chromosome)

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>>578466712

Gender is just another politer word for sex.

Get over yourself.

>>578467634
Until someone pulls your pants down and gets a face full of cock.

Whether you can hide something or not, it's still a lie.

I think the way we have gender roles in society is mostly a social construct, but some things run a bit deeper.

No matter how much sjw scream and wave their hands, men and women are different. Both physically and chemically. There is a reason why pretty much every olympic record for the men's division is better than the women's. We are build differently.

>>578467617
Nowadays we call people otherkin and feminist.
We used to call the dellusional amd give them their pills.
Tollerance has gone to far today.
Being mentally unstable does not make you a supressed minority.

>>578455397
>gender is feelings!!
What a retard.

>>578466890
I read this Larry the Cable Guys voice.

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>>578456085
>>Special snowflake detected

>>578467749
looked like ostrich to me

dont mind me ill laugh at my bad high jokes in the corner

>>578467959
Oh lol.

>>578467378
Yes I understand that. I'm not a retard. Where does the cis part come from? Does it stand for something? The epitomology of the word. Why does cis suddenly mean heterosexual?

>>578467501
>No, I was differentiating for your benefit given that you're an idiot. Other than that I don't bother to.
So you think heterosexual males who don't want to have sex with woman with dicks are idiots? Or is your argument that trans-women and women are immediately distinguishable? Or do you think that trans-women should be expected to disclose their status to strangers they might have a romantic interest in?

>If you're trans then you are the gender you're actively trying to transition to. Do you have even the slightest idea what these people do to themselves?
Except that's not true for all of them, not even most. A lot of them for example don't have sex reassignment surgery. In fact, its considered trans-phobic to expect it of them.

>>578467930
That's funny right thar.

>Really though I hate that guy

>>578468170
Cisgender means identifying yourself with the gender you are born with.
>it means being normal.

>>578467590
What do you mean? Neurobiology and Psychology have studied the mind it's clear that the mind is not separate from your genitals, far from it. Sociology is the study of human social structures and saying the nature of the mind has nothing to do with sociology is ignorant.

#shrekd

>>578467474
Because Marxism is dealing with the way structures alienate people, patriarchy is by definition one of these structures.
If you study the way this alienation occurs, you could see why patriarchy exists.
Not trying to say "hey you're a fag that doesn't see what I see so you're wrong", just that it is normal to not notice these structures since we're drown in them since birth. One year ago, I was, by obscurantism, conviced feminism was useless as well.

>>578467910
My nigga

>>578455312
OP is autistic tumblrfag. Discuss
>Were you looking for /lgbt/?

>>578468374
Besides the fact that socialism itself is flawed you do really think you are a special snowflake don't you?
>The whole world is stupid and I am one of the few who knows what is really going on.

I have yet to see a shred of evidence concerning the very existence of the patriachy.
I think woman in the western world are much more priviledged than men are.

>>578456385
>Sociology

>>578457909
>Anthropologist

>>578459662
>ANTHROPOLOGISTS

>>578466712
>Anthropologists

1/4. I corrected myself.

>>578463015
>can we at least agree that "normal social interaction" has a huge component of morality attached to it?
Of course we agree mate, but the fact that social phenomenon has a huge component of morality attached to it doesn't mean the conclusions of a study made by a sociologist would be moraly oriented has well, thanks to the reflexivity I talked you about earlier.
But Like I said, full objectivity does not exist.

>>578468317
I mean that the fact that you are more feminine or more masculine depends on how you have been socialized to gender.
Take a girl, let her grow in a family in which she only have brothers, with a father who likes sports alot, in an environnement in which she HAS to be more masculine to be respected, she has chances to be more masculines, and this is a social phenomenon

>>578468293
>it means being normal.
Without noticing, you just demonstrated what feminists are trying to fight against.
Why would you define one way to live to be the normal just because it is the most "wide-spread" one, the "biological" one ?
There is obviously nothing mean in your comment but it just carries and feeds a culture that paint people not fitting in as abnormals, which lead to discriminarion while these people just want to enjoy life like everyone else.

>>578463023
>Then gender is a useless concept

Doesnt matter if its socially constructed or not, gender literally means nothing. For example, among men, everyone has a different size dick, they cant (without surgery) change this, its a fact of their existence. Everyone can have feelings about the dick they've been dealt - but we dont have labels for the gradations of feelings men can have about their dicks, because it doesnt matter what you think about your dick, it matters what you do with it.

Sure, the way you think about your penis changes the way you act, and the decisions you make, and we DO chose to label these actions (sexual orientation, etc)...thats because nobody gives a shit about your internal monologue

>>578468170
'Cisgender has its origin in the Latin-derived prefix cis-, meaning "on this side of," which is an antonym for the Latin-derived prefix trans-, meaning "across from" or "on the other side of"'

lrn2Wikipedia