I want to pick up TKD in addition to my muay thai. Is all tkd competition point sparring? How and where can I find TKD that's geared towards fighting in the ring?
>>829722
Most TKD is taught like olympic boxing. Its long and you do it for points. If you want to find TKD for full contact fighting, then find an old korean teacher who is university certified in korea. I used to have a teacher from the Seoul University, he became pretty successful.
Basically find one from the motherland and you are good, and its best that they have more experience because before TKD was more "contact" oriented with less gear and a lot more sparring. Good Luck.
>>829742
Yeah what this guy said.
Look into ITF TKD instead of WTF TKD.
I'm doing the same thing as you, and everyone asked said that ITF TKD is the way to go.
>>829722
Yes. It doesn't exist.
>>829742
>>829759
ITF literally DQs you if you KO your opponent.
http://www.tkd-itf.org/wp-content/uploads/2014/10/ITF-World-Junior-Senior-Tournament-Rules-feb-8-In-force-of-January-1st-2013.pdf
>>829722
Find a TKD coach who happens to teach MMA or Kick Boxing.
My MMA coach is black belt in TKD and BJJ.
http://www.teamusa.org/USA-Taekwondo/Events/Competition-Rules
>>829816
http://www.taekwondo-information.org/taekwondo-sparring-rules.html
>>829816
>>829839
There you go, OP.
If you don't hit your opponent hard enough, you don't get a point.
Light-tapping point fight doesn't cut it, the kicks, and especially the punches, have to be hard. PPS electronically determines how hard the strike was.
You get a point if the punch is hard.
You get a point if the kick is hard.
You get a point if you do a spinning kick that is hard.
You get a point fuck hitting your opponent in the head hard, which could very well KO your opponent.
>>829852
You get 2 points if you do a spinning kick that's hard.
You get 3 points if you kick your opponent in the head hard.
>>829853
What the hell, 3 points for a hard head kick but disqualified if he goes down?
>>829863
>but disqualified if he goes down?
The kicker doesn't get disqualified for downing an opponent.
Intentionally falling down will give the person intentionally falling down a warning.
>>829875
I mean a KO
Honestly, how many headkicks DONT cause a knockout?
>>829722
what's wrong with her toes?
>>829916
Damn it anon, how am I supposed to fap now?
>>829916
it's the camera you mong
>>829913
Most of them
TKD rules are designed with safety in mind - full 10 count rules apply.
Plus, we do tons of shit to hide our kicks, but you can't really hide it against another Taekwondoin
For my two knockouts
1. 360 RH to the neck countering a step forward back kick (Kid dropped like a sack of bricks)
2. RH that slammed opponent into mat head first
I've also gotten downs (not knockdowns, legit count downs) from side kicks/back kicks to the body.
The gear diffuses pressure, it doesn't stop it.
Really, if you want to do serious TKD, do Oly TKD. It's only the worlds largest olympic martial art with a national team in every nation worth posting from
>>829852
>If you don't hit your opponent hard enough, you don't get a point.
Except when electronic scoring was introduced people started scoring with the hilariously retarded rabbit kick. There's decent things to Taekwondo but both the ITF and WTF promote some amazingly shitty sparring methods.
>>830266
Muay thai rules are stupid in the clinch where you can't even hip throw. Judo is this thing that eats young nak mauy in the middle of the night that scares them
Boxing is more or less completely alien to the styles of kyokushin, which would not endanger your fists at all in a street fight and doesn't need big clunky gloves
MMA unified rules don't allow for soccer kicks like XFC. MMA is just not as street ready as XFC fu
Every style has something wrong with it. In TKD it's a lack of hands.
And even then, there is "grappling" in TKD, basically doing illegal ass shit in the clinch. Spinning the opponent and kicking them in the exposed side. Swapping places with them when they try to RH
Even still, there's groundwork and throwing techniques in the hoinsul, and it's practiced in ways like sparring from position, from back to back, from throws, and all that shit, taught to pin and lock, ect.
But every day you do that, assuming it's amazing 100% awesome and understood there is a mysterious red patch on his black belt during this lesson groundwork, is a day you didn't spend improving your kicks. As fun as spinal taps and knee bar's are, learning and practicing them is not used in TKD comp, so even though they exist, they're not as important.
On the other hand, who else has the fastest and strongest kicks? What other style uses jump back wheel kick as a pretty much basic kick?
>>830787
I can't believe I'm supporting TKDbrah, but he's right. There's no "silver bullet" martial art.
>>830787
MT allows throws and sweeps from the clinch and scores them quite highly. Agreed about Kyokushin, and yet they still have made more succesful transitions into kickboxing than TKD backgrounds. MMA unified rules make concessions for safety and social acceptability, still one of the loosest rulesets around compared to anything else.
What you described as grappling in Taekwondo sounds like basic clinchwork except you readily defined it as illegal. Groundowork and throwing techniques in self defense drills don't count for much precisely because they're drills and the advantage of grappling training is that you can, and should, do it at full speed against a resisting opponent and still there's only a slight risk of injury.
Kicks, sure, Taekwondo's good at kicks and hiding their setups. Karate has pretty much the exact same kicking arsenal and there's more sensible approaches to martial arts over "kicks are cool, especially when you jump and spin", but yeah, upping your kick game with TKD is not a bad call. See: Anthony Pettis, Anderson Silva, Conor McGregor.
>>830802
Where did I claim there's such a thing. I simply pointed out the obvious truth that TKD sparring in general encourages some amazingly shitty habits because it was the topic at hand and because the introduction of e-hogus has gone an extra length into further fucking with Taekwondo's martiality.
>>830802
It's not just that, it's more that specialization is ALWAYS at the cost of generalization - it's inherent of the system
Kyo has far more superior advanced techniques then muay thai, because muay thai is very much generalized while kyo is specialized to landing head kicks without the "crutch" of head punches.
a man with X years of MMA will lose in a gi jits match to a man of X Jits years because MMA would divert his training from pure mma to jits, and to different rules then what he'd be fighting in. While MMAn is doing strike drills, he's basically wasting time - to the jits match.
Doing TKD is like taking high risk high reward boxing, and i think it can literally improve your game in any other martial art. That's because TKD has the best cardio and the best muscle groups worked - the legs and abs.
I know people from TKD who have gone into judo and wrestling, and they all say - TKD is harder on your legs.
You need to jump constantly in TKD - every kick is a jump. It's a huge drain on your cardio compared to thai or mma or boxing.
Plus, even in jits, strong flexible legs are great. no matter what you do in the martial arts, if it involves using power with great flexibility - it involves using the legs.
Unless you have no legs at all, doing TKD will make you better at what you want to do. It will make you stronger, faster, and with better endurance.
You can hate me now, but nothing i said is false.
>>830823
Also, yeah. I'll admit i've gotten all my downs and 1 ko from the e system, but it's still being fine tuned. Now they have headgear too, which is awesome tbch. no more judge bullshit.
They released a first edition that didn't use the fucking heel as a striking target, so of course it's a horrible first edition.
And they're not so much illegal as they are "skirting the line".
And karate has sucky kicks. i've been to karate classes. No offence, but they just don't have the evolution that makes TKD kicks superior. think about it. TKD is olympic. Do you know the kind of level at which it's plated? There are 6 year old world champions being groomed by nations to be olympic gold medalists. The olympics are for keeps and tkd gets deadly serious when you get into it. But until you're a black belt, you can't even say you "know" tkd. And even then, when you get your first dan you should only see how far you really have to go.
What does karate have but a really dedicated fanclub?
First dan is about 5 years, for reference. It's really when you have most of the basics of TKD down to the point where you're more in charge of your own day to day training.
And honestly, you have no idea what spins really are. jumping and spinning are legitimate moves.
and MT rules prohibit sweeps that connect achilies to achillies. AKA so osoto gari.
That's just blatant protectionism.
It's how kyo won, because kyo was more generalist where the mt were more traditionalist.
>>830854
Karate styles have pretty much the same kicks as Taekwondo, what with Taekwondo being so heavily based off korean instructors who learned mainly Shotokan. Of course if Taekwondo focuses heavily on them the average practitioner will, by comparison, perform them better but they're the same. Karate, as represented by the WKF, has their own world championships, is part of the pan-american games and is getting into the olympics.
Karate has a whole variety of schools so speaking of just "karate" is kind of vague. But since we're at it they have Kyokushin, globally respected as a martial art that produces tough as nails dudes, many of which have gone on to have succesful kickboxing careers. And their sparring method also winds up emphasizing kicks, so a Kyokushin guy will also be able to land spectacular kicks with the added benefit of always needing to score a knockdown with them and being able to throw head-height kicks at practically clinching range.
Jumping and spinning can be legitimate moves, but they can also get your shit fucked because you mistimed while the other guy stuck to doing something simpler and more practical. Uriah Hall got a fantastic knockout victory over a world class opponent with a jumping spinning kick, Chris Weidman lost an evenly-matched title bout because he failed to connect a spinning kick and got taken down and had his face punched into oblivion. The problem isn't jumping and spinning, it's the overblown focus on it.
Kyokushin dudes don't have the best success margin against MT, if anything the kickboxing rules derived from Kyokushin organizations such as K1, which break up clinches after one or two knees have been thrown and completely bans elbows, was the protectionist ruleset. And thais like Buakaw Por Pramuk were still incredibly succesful competitors in it despite the style taking away MT's favorite weapons.
>>830905
Honestly man, they came from the same source, and even though kyo and TKD both "snap" their kicks (lets use kyo for this, as kyo and TKD have trained together in the past, and leave out inconsequential styles like shoto)
Karate kicks are too stiff and mechanical, too worried about imaginary takedowns to take the high risk high reward kicking style.
TKD has the hip throw. does that mean TKD guys can throw just like judo guys? no, but they have the hip throw. Just having it doesn't make us good.
Just because karate "has" kicks that look similar, their is no TKD in it, so it sucks. They throw their weight wrong, their movement is wrong, their aim is off, all kinds of things.
By TKD standards a black belt is almost worst off with karate.
Even if you take karate and put it in TKD ruleset and practice to TKD ruleset you'd still be like 50 years behind TKD, and need to play catch up to it
>>831190
I'd hardly think of Shotokan as inconsequential, considering it's by all accounts the single most widespread style of karate and one of the biggest, if not the biggest, influence in the eventual creation of Taekwondo. Really if anyone ever worked towards popularizing and spreading karate it was Gichin Funakoshi.
Yeah see you say all these things about how Kyokushin kicks are somehow worse even though the technique is exactly the same and there might, at most, be slight variants on how they're trained. Considering Kyokushin is a style that spars hands low and focuses on kicks that need to knock people down or out, oftentimes from near chest to chest distance where it's extremely hard to actually throw those kicks, I'm not buying what you're selling.
Especially not when the entire reason why Kyokushin guys did well in kickboxing was their varied kicking arsenal, while the dutch kickboxers came in with way better footwork and boxing and Thai guys got shafted by the ruleset outside of Muay Thai events and still did well by virtue of being much more used to all-striking allowed full contact events and their batshit work ethic.
Taekwondo's kicks might be potentially smoother than other styles' just because they train them more to the exclusion of damn near everything else, it's just the same technique filtered through an unhealthy degree of specialization and even then they don't even allow kicks to the legs.
>>830827
>every kick is a jump
Are you high?
>>829722
go with an ITF dojang that has a first generation instructor that learned from General Choi
WTF is autistic af all of them that come to us cant even survive warmup and the jog b4 sparring
>>830905
>Karate styles have pretty much the same kicks as Taekwondo
Honestly, no. Krotty has some funky stuff at dan level, but not even remotely close to what the TKD guys do. You won't see a 540 degree spinning flying doublefuck kick in most karate styles.
Kyokushin is not thar far from MT, I mean KK stole the lowkicks of MT because they were damn usefull. They also kinda stole the roundhouse kick, in the old Katas you don't have such kicks.
Also you have to think about the differnt philosophies of the styles:
-Karate is "Kill with one strike" (Ikken hissatsu)
-MT is somewhat "keep it simple, use what you have and stay calm minded"
-TKD is.. I don't know, maybe "I will counter his counter with my counter-counter, so I touch him.. DAMN, did he just punch me in the face?!?"
>>830802
>tickling not banned
Why does nobody do this?
>>833020
>Karate is "Kill with one strike" (Ikken hissatsu)
This is what pyjama tag players actually believe
>>833096
Pretty hard to pull off, but if you submit someone and tickle him until he taps.. Would definately be a noteworthy fight!
>>833100
Why don't you reasearch before writing such stuff?
>"This, however, does not mean that any clash can and should be resolved with the use of only one stroke, but it conveys the spirit that the karateka (player) must partake in."
>https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ikken_hissatsu
>>833102
Seems like it would really fuck up the opponent's stamina.
>>830854
If you're talking about what I think you're talking about, didn't kyo win because the kyo guys did judo too?
>>829722
Ugly big toes
>>833020
The base is the same. That Taekwondo placed emphasis on their kicks and doing spectacular-looking jumping and spinning variants to the near total exclusion of other techniques, for whatever reason you might want to argue or not, is their own issue, but the basis of the kicks are the same.
Kyokushin is pretty far from MT considering they don't allow any sort of clinching nor punches or elbows to the face, so the base strategy of Kyokushin sparring is trading low kicks and undefended bodyshots at near chest to chest distance until someone caves and then throwing a high impact kick or flying knee to knock them on their ass/flat out.
Ikken Hissatsu wasn't originally a karate mentality. It's derived from Kendo and came into Karate, specifically its sparring, from cross-pollination in universities when Gichin Funakoshi et al were promoting the study of their martial art. One might argue that it's a pretty retarded idea considering hands aren't blades and it's led to a pretty terrible tournament meta where it's turned into a game of tag, but Lyoto Machida made good use of the mentality by drawing out the counterattack, at which point he did have a good deal of single-hit power.
>>833265
Because counter - punching didn't exist in boxing long before krotty was a thing
>>833342
Please explain to me where I in any way implied that. It's also funny you bring up boxing because everyone and their mother drew attention to how Machida didn't fight at boxing range during the time when he was The Next Big Thing and how the competition karate meta poking distance is longer and focuses on a deeper lunge, which made for some pretty bad collisions when his opponents started to lead and walked right into his setups.
>>833020
>I mean KK stole the lowkicks of MT because they were damn usefull. They also kinda stole the roundhouse kick, in the old Katas you don't have such kicks.
Karate didn't steal shit, They're were always roundkicks in Karate all styles shared techniques in one form or another anyway. And it was Chinese Northern Shaolin and Fujian White Crane that Influenced Karate the most as an outside style
