Historical European Martial Arts Thread
Please keep it kind and on topic. Also no SCA/Reenactment please.
Essential Information:
http://www.communitywalk.com/user/view/81443
https://www.zeemaps.com/map?group=619536
http://hemaalliance.com/?page_id=686
http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/Main_Page
http://www.hroarr.com/
http://www.middleages.hu/english/martialarts/treatise_database.php
I can't go to either of this week's training sessions because of exams. Console me, /asp/.
Pic unrelated.
I'm interested in the regenyei I.33 sword. Is it good? What's its price?
>>745902
It's ok according to the guys in my club. 165EUR+shipping.
Someone asked in the previous thread about travel cases for HEMA kit. I've done plenty of driving/flying/train-ing with too much baggage. The bottom line is:
Series 3 Sportube.
Extendable. The series 3 is big enough to fit a mask in. Hard case. Lockable. Wheels.
Expensive but worth it.
>>746219
I'm thinking about getting the club glove last bag, a golf bag travel cover, should fit a complete tournament gear for flight travel.
>>746221
>last bag
Last Bag XL, that is
>>746221
Haven't tried it, price-wise it looks comparable to the Sportube 3.
Because the Sportube is extendable you can fit plenty in there and you never need to worry about kit being too long for it. I can't imagine ever needing more than a sportube and a backpack for an event (including Swordfish style gymnasium camping).
Quick question: Can I derive a tiny income (i.e. Enough to pay for fuel) if I run my club as an NFP?
>>746223
I usually got gear for at least three different weapons and stuff, plus I instruct, plus I like my inflatable mattress, thats why I aim for the bigger bag.
>>746246
Hahaha what's the problem giving carry advice for the first time in nine months? Are you another butt hurt Londoner like Nigel?
>>746246
You're a cunt.
>>746226
This is not legal advice, but at least in the US the answer is probably yes. That said, if you're that unsure about how non-profits work (in whatever jurisdiction), it's probably best to do a lot more research or talk to a lawyer.
>>745905
Cool, it's less expensive than how I expected. Now I know what I'm getting for Christmas.
>>746712
Oops. First time I posted in ages. Guess a bag recommendation was a bad idea...
>>746716
You know we can tell it's you samefagging right?
Anyway no I don't like him either but the internet is tired of your little crusade against him and rawlings. It got old.
greetings from Australia
>>746718
Perhaps we can meet up early next year when I'm out there. Fence, have a beer.
What's the best way of contacting you?
>>746719
I'd appreciate it you stayed out of my country you ginger cunt
>>746718
Why don't you like him? He's the best youtuber. Skally is okay but he doesn't know as much.
>>746722
>He's the best youtuber.
If you are limited to english only...wenn du Deutsch oder Italienisch kannst schaust du dir den ganzen Quatsch von der Insel nicht mehr an, die hinken da einfach immer ein paar Jährchen hinterher aber nehmen sich ungemein wichtig.
>>746722
Never got on with him. don't care about the systems he teaches. he seems like a good enough bloke just that I don't give a single shit about him or sabre or singlestick.
I forgot everyone on 4chan loves the man. Something you just gotta deal with.
Doesn't make smallridge right though. pls go.
>>746723
Oh look, its the old 'the UK sucks and is years behind!' argument.
And if you are going to actually be constructive write in a language most people on a primarily English language website actually speak. Don't be a dick.
>>746724
>Something you just gotta deal with.
What is there to 'deal with'. The guy consistently puts out high quality videos on a wide range of topics related to arms and armour and the use thereof. So it would be strange if he was not popular among people interested in those topics.
>>746728
>new topic
>somebody posts easton video
>all the drones agree
>discussion done
> no peer review
>no testing
>just youtube
>>746732
>peer review
>testing
Yes, because the average person into HEMA has a collection of 100 antique swords plus numerous reproductions they can just go and repeat his videos with.
And plenty of his videos are just talking about weapons instead of demonstrating them, you can only 'test' that by going and reading the same sources he did. But sure, call people drones because you are butthurt that someone who is friendly and informative is popular.
>>746736
I'm calling you drones because you repeat every single worth without thinking it trugh and don't accept other oppinions. As soon as somebody disagres with anything Easton says, you get a massive shitstorm inhere. And thats simply not the way HEMA works.
I like hist stuff on Victorian sabre, but that doesn't mean that he is also the authority on for example german longsword. Also, you don't need a 100 swords to do that, an original source, and normal HEMA kit will get you very far researching stuff.
Also, why does SG have such a huge Wikipedia entry, big ego or just somebody with too much time?
>>746725
>And if you are going to actually be constructive write in a language most people on a primarily English language website actually speak. Don't be a dick.
I do write in english inhere, but just saying there is a couple more people in this thread(and many many more in HEMA) that can read a primary source.
Stop raging about Easton and start raging about Roland. What do you think about his new theory?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yacFlQjtkTU
>>746738
So what does easton say that you disagree with?
>>746732
He doesn't make any factual claims that anyone with a brain could disagree with. He is well researched and experienced. You can disagree with his personal opinions all day long, but what does that achieve? They're just opinions.
Why don't you just tell us what it is you disagree with?
Nice hema/Fencing pants/shorts/capris. Go. Not talking SPES stuff or the sport fencing overalls. I mean just normal clothes that make for good pants when practicing and light sparring. Preferably something that works with the club socks we wear. Capris seem to work well to that end but I can't seem to find any that aren't terrible.
>>746829
I kinda just want normal pants, man. Like, I get the larp breeches are comfy and all but I'm going to be practicing in a park in broad daylight with other people dressed in normal ass clothes. I don't want to be "that guy" who has to be in period clothing and shit.
We have club t-shirts and high socks that we wear. Ideally capri pants or shorts would be best.
>>746923
what's wrong with
>SPES stuff or the sport fencing overalls
?
Long socks and a pair shorts isn't going to look much different than sock and knickers.
>>746743
It's an interesting idea, but seems like a bit of a stretch, from a practical sort of view; why not just make the grip a tiny bit longer so you can fit another finger on it and grab the whole pommel?
On a related note, that blonde in his club is a total qt3.14
https://youtu.be/ykUJP78YYQc?t=824
>>747023
> The video
Why are ten minutes of that just long shots of that guy talking at the camera? The voiceover parts with fencing footage were much better.
Anyone recommend a suppler for a 4ft rapier blade?
I'm thinking either Alchem or Darkwood...
>>747115
Danelli
>>747133
Do they do one-off blades?
>>747466
yep
Unfortunately I'm one of the instructors of my team. Most of the people, here, don't like to study any kind of technique (even if we have just the bare least of exercises and drills). They just want to spar, then they complain they don't get good as much as they want. How can I make them understand that they can't improve themselves without training? I already told them the "no pain no gain" concept. I already beated the shit out of them, and get them beated by people from other clubs to show them training actually works, but it doesn't motivate them to train well.
So, wat do?
>>747568
Make the training fun only drills with a bit of flair to them/windows for improvisation. Also freeplay is good if it's targeted upon new techniques, e.g. the role for this session is to try and use this particular counter/ assault. They see the effectiveness of the technique first hand and are more likely to remember it. Make it a game, select one within the two to do the technique, and have the other try and defend as best they can
That's how things are done where I go anyway, and I enjoy things enough that I go whenever I can
>>747568
Our group leader tasked me with designing an exercise once. Even after a lot of advice and planning, I had no idea how to do it well.
So I can't offer you any tips, but you do have my moral support.
>>747490
Thanks.
>>747568
The classic is as this >>747583 anon said; targeted sparring.
Failing that, try some games that limit variables down to something manageable.
And if that doesn't work, lay down the law with two options: Start training seriously or go join the ACL/SCA.
>>744963
>ITT: Buttblasted Euro's h8ing on the Anglosphere's ability to: Reach large audiences, crowd fund their clubs, derive a supplemental income from it, force them to write and read in English, implying Continentals don't have as many larp-tier groups, etc.
If you want "Decade behind" or truly "LARP-tier", come to Australia, the single most monolingual, cluster-fuck of research non-based HEMA out there.
Jesus, we can't even get a good domestic supplier for consistent entry level gear without getting F'd-in-the-A
>inb4 "Den dere's a margkeg for u :DD"
Rule 1: Make more money than you put in or at least break even.
2: Supply and demand: in Australia Demand is not sufficiently high, and current Supplies are too expensive due to being "custom" jobs.
>>747690
>research non-based HEMA
*non-research based
HEMA FOUNDATIONAL READING LIST 1st Ed.:
Rules:
1) Must use open & free accessible sources.
2) Must have concise & simple theoretical & practical language.
>Rapier
Agrippa.
Fabris.
>Arming-sword & Messer
Kal.
>Side-sword
Marozzo.
>Messer & Dussack
Meyer.
>Back & Broad-sword
Sinclair.
Silver.
>Longsword
Fiore.
Thoughts, suggestions?
>>747818
Bonus points for well drawn pictures, I guess. Other than that, good list.
Any suggestions for spears and pole weapons?
>>746738
>but that doesn't mean that he is also the authority on for example german longsword
That's because he does Fiore, you dense twit.
And when he makes commentary about German stuff, or things he is not well researched on, he adjusts his language to indicate that.
"I'm not an expert on German longsword" is something the guy has said on his channel, when talking about German longsword.
And when he made the videos about the Viking sword, he referred to Roland Warzecha as an expert.
If you think you can do better than Easton, then fucking do it. None of the guys making HEMA videos use particularly expensive equipment. Fucking Martin Ostwick records from his phone. Nick Thomas records with a simple camera. Nick Thomas also does German longsword and is recording content about it.
We've got Sword Carolina doing videos about it as well.
If you think you can do better, then fucking do it.
Record some lectures.
Record some talking points.
Record some technique interpretations.
Record some sparring footage.
Put it all up, share it, and make the community better. The community can only suffer while your well of knowledge goes untapped, and while you do not collaborate with anyone.
I run a small sparring and study group, and part of our plan is to share our interpretations, so they can be critiqued and our community can grow to be better fencers. And it's something you should probably consider anyway, considering this information sharing renaissance we're in.
>>747825
If you don't want to compartmentalize, Fiore covers arming swords, spears, halberds, harness fighting, mounted combat, daggers, batons, and grappling.
There is that. You can use the entire system, anon. That's the beauty of Fiore. One system to use them all.
>>748199
>tfw Fiore wrote about everything except sword & buckler
/Asp/
Help.
How do I counter a spear with just a medieval arming sword?
Thanks in advance
>>749021
Pretend to be his friend then stab him in the back.
Throw it at him.
Wear lots of armour.
Have someone else stab him with it while you pretend to beg for mercy.
>>749021
You don't. The spear is superior in terms of reach and power.
It's like saying "how do I counter a rifle with a gun?"
You best bet would be to chop off the tip with a power strike, but good look with that..
>>749031
In HEMA the guy with the sword loses most of the time, even when he has a large shield.
Being really good or having experience facing spears will help but 'get good' is not exactly helpful advice. There is just an inherent disparity there.
>>749025
Why are you using just a sword anyway? I thought most places using the arming sword did sword and buckler.
>>749036
>large shield.
SCA by chance?
>>749036
>'get good' is not exactly helpful advice
Yet that's usually what it comes down to in the end.
>>749040
Are you somehow unaware of the fact some HEMA clubs play around with shields now and then? But no, clearly I must do SCA because I mentioned shields.
The only one who sounds like he does not do HEMA here is you for acting like the spear does not have an advantage.
>>749021
What size of spear ? Is it a rather short spear (6ft) or a longer spear (8-9ft) ?
If you have a one-handed weapon, beating the spear offline and grabbing the shaft should be fairly obvious but then... easier said than done.
Against a spear, a one-handed sword misses on leverage and range, not to say it's impossible but it's clearly a fucked up scenario.
>>749050
>No amount of footwork beats that range advantage.
I know, it is longsword, but still: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=sfP8B1vldTA
>>749052
>Against a spear, a one-handed sword misses on leverage and range, not to say it's impossible but it's clearly a fucked up scenario.
We looked into a couple techniques regarding short sword against pole arms, was at a Hugo Wittenwiler workshop 2-3 years ago.
depending on the weapon it is doable, short spear/halberd are the nastiest, pike is most easy.
>>749031
>confirmed for not doing HEMA
Well, maybe you just don't know how to use a spear?
It's pretty difficult to withstand a spear, you can thrust, you can shove someone from his feet, you do wide swings (like a halberd) wich can give concussions without penetrating the armor, you can easily target the legs from a distance, you can chose to use the two sides of the spear like a long staff and so on..
Have you ever tried to block a spear that gets swung at you with full power? That's a big amount of force coming.
The problem is rather that there are many guys that are pretty uncapable of using the spear (making one slow stab, letting the other guy come close and wait to get mauled). You have to keep your distance, but if you know what you are doing you can keep the distance very well.
>http://www.swordsmanship.ca/academy-articles/fighting-with-staff-and-spear/
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=WAgtXXHqs74
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=O8RWLxlzTiM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=vJcTD5qIZJ4
>>749057
Well, decent point. Still not a very good example though, since apart from the longsword he also had a significant skill advantage. It wasn't even necessarily the footwork so much as the rather sloppy offense on the spearman's part.
>>749072
>Well, decent point. Still not a very good example though, since apart from the longsword he also had a significant skill advantage. It wasn't even necessarily the footwork so much as the rather sloppy offense on the spearman's part.
The spearman is an otherwise excellent longsword/messer fencer, but I'm not sure if he trained spear a lot.
odd's are not in favor of the sword, but it is not hopeless.
>>748238
>>tfw Fiore wrote about everything except sword & buckler
SHUT THE FUCK UP LALALAA CAN'T HEAR YOU!
;_;
>>749021
>How do I counter a spear with just a medieval arming sword?
Fiore, Gigantti, et al. have a point about dagger vs. spear; namely this:
>You want to create space so as that you can strike the end (weak) of the spear.
>Go diagonally backwards a few times until your opponent gets too bold (hubris)
>wait for the over committed thrust, even better if they do so with a "flung" single handed one
>Strike the weak of the spear, suppress/dominate (i.e. remain in contact with) it
>Move fast to close distance in a direct line or somewhat towards the side which you are suppressing
>Grab the spear or grip and push the opponents arm in and down THEN release you sword and strike him... Twice.
>Cobb's Traverse
>this works on both inside and out.
Thoughts?
>>749221
Pretty much what longsword guy in the video above did. Sounds and seems solid, as long as you have enough space and the spearman isn't too careful.
>>749221
Sorry for that stupid question, but what is this glove-like thing at your picture?
>Thoughts?
Not a bad tactic, I think it's pretyt obivous that the dagger guy can only win by closing in.
But against dagger the spearman can simply use a "Vom Tag" stance and smash the dagger guy's head as soon as he closes in. It's nearly impossible to block this with a dagger, especially since you can chage the direction of the strike very fast (since your hands are not so close together as when you have a sword).
As I said before, a spear is not only a throsting tool but also nice for swings of all kind.
The "Vom Tag" guard is also covered at the link I already posted:
>http://www.swordsmanship.ca/academy-articles/fighting-with-staff-and-spear/
Well this is what one treatise advises.
Blind/distract him with your hat, throw your knife into his chest then run the hell away.
>>749353
>It's nearly impossible to block this with a dagger,
Your best bet is the fiddlebow to stop the blow, then close in fast, at least according to Hugo Wittenwiler. It does work in hard drilling mode, but you for sure still won't like the odds.
>>748238
>tfw you know deep inside that Geman longsword is superior to Italian longsword.
>>749356
>tips fedora
>>749021
>>749024
>>749027
>>749036
>>749050
>>749052
>>749059
>>749221
>>749353
Thanks guys, but most prolly I'm the outskilled spear guy.
I'm going to have a fight with a skilled swordsman so I wanted to know what he may use to beat me.
Obviously I'm already winning since, well, spear.
How do I not let him win?
Making distance? Fast thrusts? Good footwork?
All of it together?
How much will he be playing mind games with me?
How would YOU take out an average level spearman?
>>749371
Be careful rather than aggressive, retain a good grip on your spear, and don't jeopardize your range advantage by going in too deep.
Also don't hold your spear too far out; as long as the swordsman can't bind he's not safe.
Do attack freely, but from far away, and *stay* far away. If he can't get to you with one step, you're fairly safe.
Keep him on his toes without letting him get past your weapon's tip.
Also don't forget that you can and should swing, when appropriate.
At least that's what I recall from our spear training, but that was a while ago.
>>749373
Should I feint much?
Cause I usually do that a lot and when they expose a body part I quickly go there.
I almost always win this way, because I'm quite fast with thrusts.
>>749374
If it works for you, why not?
You really should try it on someone else first.
>>749371
Mind your distance, you got the range advantage and can only be beaten when the other guy closes in, so stay mobile.
Use strikes too, not only thrusts. You got the leverage. Strike for legs etc. that hard to parry with one handed weapons.
>How much will he be playing mind games with me?
Depends on the fencer, some play a lot, some don't.
>How would YOU take out an average level spearman?
Lure himinto attacking, best to present a Blosse and make sure you got a little leverage with the distance, catch that one attack and close the distance as fast as I can, meanwhile block his weapon with my off hand, and go for the kill.
>>749353
>Sorry for that stupid question, but what is this glove-like thing at your picture?
A duelling gauntlet most likely.
Apparently the Irish were known for using it.
Can /asp/ identify this sword?
Also Any swedish HEMA bros missing?
>>750104
>Can /asp/ identify this sword?
Gonna need a profile pic for that.
>>750144
From a thread on /pol/
Any review on the PBT hema jacket?
check out this documentary
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mmTi-NGQNh8
thanks for the link markus
>>751191
Alright, really, here too?
Can anyone confirm that this thing is worth spending 90 minutes on?
>>751192
>Unfit Anglosphere Nerds in a Circle Jerk: The Film.
>>751192
well made movie that to me as german presents a nice few into the hema sphere. to me, it also draws a good picture of the community. that's the kind of movie i'd show to people if they ask me what i do for a hobby
Tasmania?
>>752482
Hobart lists a club on the HEMAA Club Finder. But it could be dead and there's no contact information. However there are names listed.
>>751192
It's really good. I thought it was worth all my time.
>>752469
>angry German nerd gets mad and posts nothing in the community
Dem dere Anglosphere! Monopolizing the HEMA videos!
What? Me actually produce content and share it? Fuck that! I don't want to get laughed at by Brits!
>>752643
what is it with you and germany? any issues you want to talk about?
>>746814
I just use some old cargo pants. Only thing you need is enough room to move around in without excess fabric getting in the way.
>>747818
Might want to include some for dagger and wrestling
Silver's also good for general theory too.
![MS_Ludwig_XV_13_20r-d[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ShFqFs5.jpg "MS_Ludwig_XV_13_20r-d[1].jpg")
>>748238
>you don't need a buckler, padawan. This one guard is the only thing you need for sword in one hand
Why Fiore
>>751192
If you have anything more than a passing familiarity with HEMA, there's not much you're missing
>>750335
it's impossible to identify the sword without better pics
>>753271
Silver? The one telling "just use your dagger like it was a buckler"? That Silver?
>>753284
I am referring to the four governors and defensive fighting. "use your dagger like it was a buckler" is specific technique, not general theory
>>752469
Polish, dutch, swedish, italian is now anglosphere?
>>753214
In the last thread, the person who whined about the Anglosphere was a German.
Nothing against German HEMA, but there's one loud idiot among you who needs to step up and make content, or shut up.
As a matter of fact, if we could get more German HEMA guys making more video content, that'd be awesome.
More HEMA content in general would be the bee's knees.
>>753275
Because Fiore's fucking awesome and he'll show you how he killed you super awesome and fucked your girlfriend better than you could.
>>753570
ah, i see. thx for the clarification
>>753570
>if we could get more German HEMA guys making more video content, that'd be awesome.
We do, you don't bother to learn to speak it.
Your loss.
>>752482
http://www.stoccata.org/index.php/schools/schools-in-tasmania/hobart
>>753639
The Italians have some pretty sexy stuff too, but they at least subtitle their vids: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=psaksDHJq9Q
>>753639
>don't bother
Are you trolling or are you really so stupid you think its a matter of 'not bothering'?
>>753639
Und wie wäre es zur Abwechslung, wenn du jetzt auch mal ein paar anständige Videos verlinken würdest? Mit Deutschkenntnissen oder ohne, man kann immer beurteilen, ob die Bewegungen sauber sind oder nicht. Ausserdem gibts hier auch Leute, die Deutsch sprechen und sich gern mal ein Video in Landessprache anschaun würden.
>>753670
Zwoter
>weil hat recht und so
>>752643
Hobart is alive and kicking. Good people, I visited them while backpacking/Eurotrashing it up round the world.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rlIUwwfCMcg can't wait to see more of this, looks promising
>>753639
Everyone understands video. With something as simple as video, the original image or the folio/page information, one can make a very detailed learning tool that others can use. And that's just the videos about plays.
No one in my country speaks German. It sounds kinda shitty, but HEMA's the only reason for me to learn German. Which I can get around because the sources have English translations. Which diminishes the value of the language. I also live in Canada, so it will be unlikely I will ever be able to afford to step into your country.
>>753769
I always thought everybody in Canada has some german anchestors somewhere..?
>mfw speaking german but don't care about HEMA
>>753804
Nope. All Brits and Frogs. We had Germans, but we erased their identity in World War One, renamed Berlin to Kitchener, and now people only acknowledge Germans existing during Oktoberfest.
There are also Albertans who claim they have German backgrounds, but Albertans are horribly malformed products of incest and bigotry.
They only stopped castrating the mentally ill and "morons" (a very vague legal term that was abused, and caused some people who are just normal to get castrated) in the 60s. The act that let them legally do it was only repealed in 1972.
But no, we don't have Germans anymore.
>>753812
Purging the under-races and the weak. Alberta did Father Germany proud.
>>753812
The fuck are you talking about? There's Germans all over BC in my experience. Both coming here before and after WWII. I have greatgrandparents that came before, and grandparents that came after. The reason why you don't really know about them is that they kept mostly to their own.
Stay on topic l, no one cares about your ancestry or your shitty country's demographic. If germans wants to appear on english speaking documentaries then they should learn English. "but we do, anon, but you should bother to learn german" great, so it sounds like you have nothing to contribute then. If you don't like the content then make your own documentary.
>>753931
>so it sounds like you have nothing to contribute then.
That statement sounds a bit stupid when you look at the vast realm of the German school of fencing. It is rather nice if you understand the language of your sources, and Italian and German School have most sources. And yes, I do believe they understand their material better than someone with only 'secondhand' know-how on the topic.
>>753700
>Good people, I visited them while backpacking/Eurotrashing it up round the world.
What were they like, I was thinking of travelling around Australia next year and wanted to hit up some groups along the way.
Also, what's the nature like in Tasmania?
>>753726
>Ribbed
HEMA confirmed for n-no homo...
>>753726
that looks weird. I get what they're going for, but I'm skeptical that it'd actually perform well
HOLY SHIT
Guys, I just had a thought...
We know that the terms "cudgeling" & "singlestick" are used interchangeably.
However we also know that both terms could also refer to particular practices.
What if "cudgeling" was descended of the judicial duel? Namely the type with two non-nobles using clubs or maces & bucklers?
>The Irish were noted for using two sticks in fights & play for example; one shorter, thicker one for parrying, & the other (which may be the "shillelagh") for striking...
"Singlestick" as the name imply's uses only one stick for both offence and defence, & by far & large seems to fluctuate between rule sets.
>Sport & Entertainment (limited targets & movement).
>Training (sabre, back & broadsword).
This doesn't even take in to account la canne and bastone.
Thoughts?
>>754897
So you're telling that two terms, which today mean the same thing, actually come from different things and had different meanings? Yeah, probably.
I'm gonna try some club and buckler/small shield just for fun, btw.
>>744963
So im very new to HEMA, only been fighting about 4 months or so but ive just had my first tournament.
We had 2 rounds of 4 catagories being single sword, sword and companion, long sword and open.
For the sword and companion i picked up 2 single swords for the first time and i kicked ass with it!
Is there any texts about case of swords i should be reading? or resources i should be learning from?
Thanks guys
>>755129
>For the sword and companion i picked up 2 single swords for the first time and i kicked ass with it!
Anything about a Case of Rapiers or most Bolognese sources
>>755129
Manciolino has something about two sideswords
>>755129
As said, it will mostly be italian sources, Di Grassi and Agrippa had some pieces.
>>755129
Check this one: http://www.hroarr.com/wp-content/uploads/downloads/2014/06/Terminiello-Piermarco-Reich-Steven-Fighting-with-two-swords-according-to-Altoni-and-Docciolini-2013.pdf
>>754233
Nice, it's a university club so lots of noobs and not much kit, but the instructor Matt had one of the best understandings of Abrazare I've come across and some of the senior students were good with a sword!
Wildlife - the Tasmanian Devil is vicious, prehistoric looking and now my spirit animal...
I'm going to my first tournament soon, and I'm getting overly anxious about it.
wat do?
>>756966
Untill about two days before the tournament? Footwork, drills and more footwork. The last two days? Relax. Do something fun, give your body time to recover.
>>756966
Network with guys you know are gonna be there. Knowing who you're gonna fight helps, somehow.
Swordfish 2015, Finals:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-Dvl1sTUcv8
>>757725
thanks
>>757725
So anybody been to Swordfish from /asp/ then?
>>763451
Once, but not this year.
>>763464
>This doesn't appear to be wrestling related. Could you weeb faggots stop shitposting on /wwe/. Thanks.
Oh it is white trash mating season? Again? Sorry then.
>>763625
Stop posting this you fucking autistic freak
>yfw /wwe/ fags BTFO
>>763633
>not a sport
what
>>764247
Well I'd actually kind of agree with that. It is/should primarily be something other than a sport. One of the Longpoint guys did a writeup just recently about some of this:
http://www.fightlongpoint.com/news/2015/11/5/cultural-triangulation-the-triathlon-and-its-sport-context
I don't agree with all of it, but it's interesting.
>>764505
if it was a proper "sport" it would belong in /sp/.
thats why its on /asp/
>>764630
touchée
Got a swollen fingertip from fucking around with plastic wasters without gloves.
I've iced it a few times, any other tips to speed up recovery?
>>768162
Ignore it. If it doesn't get worse, it'll get better eventually. Ignoring it and not fucking around with it will ensure you don't do anything stupid, and you aren't as distracted.
>>768162
In case it is broken, get a splint, if it just hurts, theres several ointments for that, ask at the pharmacy.
In general, give it some rest. And yes, that means nofap with said hand.
What are the two loop in front of the spes fencing pants for?
>>746923
Just get a pair of dickies from walmart (or whatever is your equivalent if you don't live in the states) and cut them off at whatever length you want. They're fairly comfy, durable as all hell (i've had a pair for about 8 years now that have barely faded and never got a tear despite tons of rough hiking and working in them), and are basically impossible to stain.
>>770802
>What are the two loop in front of the spes fencing pants for?
no idea, puzzles me.
>>763451
aye, few years ago
Yo guys, I just recently started studying classic board sword fencing (I think), our teacher primary teaches Silver and goes on about him like he's a god among men, He insists I should read his paradox of defense. Is Silver meant to be an essential when it comes to this art?
I've been studying this art for a good 4-5 months now and it's really fun and there's a lot of skill that goes into it. I just brought myself a synthetic waster for bouting and shit, pretty keen to use it in class next week. I don't know if what I'm talking about is allowed on these threads though? I saw some guys mention Silver so I guess it's alright.
>>774374
I don't know much about Silver myself, but since he is the preeminent anglophone author on the subject...maybe it's just anglo bias?
>>774404
>maybe it's just anglo bias?
This, he is not well known outside the anglosphere.
>>755957
Hey there friend, I'm actually a part of that club, I've been studying there for 5-6 months now.
If any Tasmanian bros have any questions about hema I could probably help you out.
I know there's someone at the university that teaches a wide verity of weapons but is inconsistent with his lessions, I've heard he's gotten better with time though. >>752643
I might be able to help you.
>>774374
>>774407
Sounds like Steve...
Yes, you should read BRIEF INSTRUCTIONS upon my Paradoxes of Defence:
>http://wiktenauer.com/wiki/George_Silver
Specifically the backsword alone and grips.
I might also Suggest Zachary Wylde:
>http://www.sirwilliamhope.org/Library/Wylde/Wylde.php
Again, backsword alone.
FYI: Broadsword generally refers to Scottish broadsword (Hope, Page, Bane, et al.), although if you believe the Five Kingdoms idea they're all more or less the same system.
And yes, HEFT (the club at UTAS) studies primarily the German tradition. They're better equipped with loaner weapons. However currently it's tied up in bureaucracy despite their teacher's best attempts to streamline it, so lessons are somewhat disorganised.
>tfw they're still not good at marketing and promotions while HEMA is booming...
>>774457
Steve is my teacher kek, Is something wrong with him?
>>774459
>Is something wrong with him?
Nope. He's a well regarded author and editor with over a decade of experience in HEMA and was at the forefront of it's revival, co-founding the very club you go to.
>Namely George Silver, Vincentio Saviolo, Joseph Swetnam, I.33 and Pallas Armata.
My only critisism would be, having lived in Tasmania for many years, is that it's very insular.
This does mean however that everyone can basically go to every club with no issue, so there's lots of crossover between students.
It's just about getting Mainlanders to visit down there...
Interesting fact: Arne Koets actually had a seminar down in Tasmania a couple of years ago. And international competitive jouster Phillip Leitch (of Full Metal Jousting) came from and trained down there.
>btw there is a Polish fighter down there that likes to close distance rapidly. Learn to grapple i.e. read Silver.
>>774483
I know the Polish fighter, he's at our club every week, his grappling skills are insane.
Nice to know that Steve is well regarded.
quick question to all rapierists: what sources do you use preferably?
>>775008
Fabris.
>>775008
Giganti for his beginner lessons
I'm so shit at sparring.
What am i missing.
Has anyone experience with Mair S&B?
>>776325
I'm not very good too. We're missing the satisfaction of seeing that what we learned actually works. My dick turns to rock when I finally land a perfect strike.
>>776325
What do you have trouble with?
>>776338
Not him, but I have a similar problem. I lack of competitiveness. I do my drills good, during club sparring I successfully apply my techniques, but in tournaments I'm not competitive enough. I focus more on doing my shit right than on defeating the opponent.
>>776346
>I focus more on doing my shit right than on defeating the opponent.
defeating the opponent is doing your shit right.
You can drill techniques thousands of times, but knowing when to pull it makes the difference. Also, if your footwork sucks, you suck.
That said, I know a few cases where both technique and footwork is good, they just are shite at sparring, don't even need to be no tournament, just friendlies.
Don't try to do your shit right, try to beat the other guy. Fight him until you win. Then fight someone else. After a while it just becomes a habit to look for ways to beat people rather than for ways to do your shit.
>>776346
>>776362
What this guy said, but more specifically always keep your eyes on your opponent. Not his sword, not your sword, not at your feet, or the back wall or anything else. Specifically, watch his shoulders and his guard. His guard will tell you where he's going to go, and his shoulders where he is going.
Also, fuck technique. Whenever I decide I'm going to do some specific technique, I get my ass handed to me. Not to say technique isn't important, but the time to focus on technique is during drills. The only things you should be thinking about is 1. How do I not get hit, 2. How do I hit him and 3. how do I not get hit after I hit him. If you've trained your technique properly during drills, you'll do them when you need to, and not when you decide to.
If you have trouble seeing what your opponent is doing, and you can't even remember what happened after the pass is over, then that's a skill you need to train. Focus on watching, seeing where your opponent is and where he's going.
So to sum up
>Watch your opponent's shoulders and guard
>Focusing on technique is for drilling, not for sparring
>Priorities: Don't get hit, hit, don't get hit
>If you're shit at seeing, work on that until you're not.
>>776383
But with that mindset, isn't there a danger of ending up resorting to cheap bullshit to score more points, and not improving your technique at all?
>>776327
>Has anyone experience with Mair S&B?
You do know he just compiled things right? He's not technically a "system".
>>777170
I know, but Mair probably took some parts of the I.33 that now are missing to make his stuff on S&B, and I'm studying I.33 so I'm kinda curious about it.
>>776855
Yes there is. It's not meant to replace normal training, just supplement it so you get more used to fighting to win.
I just bought a used Feder from a friend. He even straightened out the crossbar and put new Leather on the grip. Kangaroo leather. Huh.
Tip's a bit bent, so I gave it to another friend of mine to straighten it out. Let's hope it survives the procedure.
Anyone else got some new equipment?
>>777266
That's okay, so long as you use I.33 as your primary source, followed by a few older German traditions, then Mair.
Are you allowed to do judo throws or someshit during HEMA tournaments? I don't mean fencing or such, I mean when a bunch of people don medieval armor and get blunt weapons and BATTLE, you know what I'm talking about.
Can you just get armor and THROW PEOPLE coming at you with maces and such or will they be upset and ban you?
>>780720
>excellent trolling 8/10, made me reply
yes, you are allowed to use throws in several hema disciplines. maces are rarely used in the hema curriculum.
>>780720
>I mean when a bunch of people don medieval armor and get blunt weapons and BATTLE, you know what I'm talking about.
Yeah, I know, you're talking about HMB, not about HEMA.
>>780741
>trolling
sounded like a legitimate question.
I wonder how anon will get close enough to execute it, but he'll definitely have the upper hand if he has judo training
>>780720
HMB disallows trips with the legs
Anyone got got vids of test cutting? https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xEyU1ejpGOE
Got my Regenyei single hander yesterday. Practice tomorrow. So of bloody course I've gotten a cold.
>>781004
This one's pretty interesting IMO https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uMkGF3EqUjU
>>781004
Probably not quite what you're looking for, but I saw this recently and thought it was funny. I'd also never seen someone use clay before.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2afmAYclw_M
>>781316
>clay is a traditional in hema cutting
Oh, good to know. The stuff I've seen before - and it's not all that much - has all been with tatami.
>>781368
http://hroarr.com/russia-test-cutting-practices/
Is there any point in going for a blunt/feder over a sharp if all I intend to use it for is solo drill/form work?
Why bucklers are so small? What is the reasoning behind it?
Wouldn't bigger ones be more effective against archers back in the day?
>>788037
>Is there any point in going for a blunt/feder over a sharp if all I intend to use it for is solo drill/form work?
Other than a possibly higher attention and guaranteed higher possibility of injury? Likely not.
>>788732
They re not meant as defense against archers, but as a defensive weapon used together with a one handed sword and they make a very efficient combination.
>>788732
You're talking in a battlefield situation?
A few reasons.
Larger shields than rotellas and targes were a pain to carry, and often were dropped after the enemy used all their arrows.
If you had to purchase your own equipment, you may only be able to afford a buckler.
You really can "wear" a buckler. Strap a saucepan lid to your belt, and you'll barely notice it walking around.
And bucklers really aren't meant to defend against arrows while standing in a formation, anyway.
>>788732
They're pretty much for every day carry self defence and sport/duelling so their size lends well to loves spent mostly not fighting. Weight too with so much buckler stuff held at arms length few people wish their buckled were larger after a 2+ hour class.
>>788744
>>788754
>>788765
Thanks for the responses. Makes sense to me now.
>let's talk about sword and shield
>[manuscript interrupted]
Dammit Liechtenauer
>>746226
You can file as a nonprofit business and hire yourself as an employee. However, there are regulations regarding compensation you have to comply with, including issuing regular budget reports.
You should just cough up the pittance of cash to file as an S corp or an LLC if you want to open up a salle.
Of course, if you're gonna train other folks, you damned well better know what you're doing. There are a lot of shitters out there that make those of us from actual traditions look bad. Dont be a hematard.
>>792672
A-at least Fiore or Silver won't fai-
>No buckler
>"Just use it like a dagger bro"
fug
What if you're all falling for some medieval how-to-become-ninja-in-30-days troll books?
>>796137
Well we'll never know but it's a growing art and an immensely self critical one. Even in the length of time /asp/ has been around techniques have been tweaked or changed as better interpretations have come to fruition.
At the end of the day training HEMA to get a 1/1 knowledge of how people of a past century fought is a pointless endeavor without a time machine but pursuing HEMA to revive a weapon based martial art that's proof to itself and any other weapon based martial art is very much coming to fruition.
To address your analogy directly only a few of a few of the treatises have any time frame and when they do the training was, according to one lecture i went to (I have no better sauce here) rigorous with two sessions a day both lasting several hours.
>>774407
I dropped by HEFT while travelling. Definitely a bit of disorganisation, but Matt (the guy in charge) had an interpretation of Fiore's Abrazare that was practical, true to the source, and trained it effectively, which is three things I'd never seen in combination before. Longsword interpretations looked ok, just that part of the class was a bit of a disorganised mess.
>>796137
I suspect that pretty often, so I don't really take the sources too seriously.
We mostly just go with whatever works though, using the sources mostly just for ideas that we can test against what we already figured out. Lots of it makes sense, some of it only works in modified forms, and some pieces we just can't get to work at all.
I don't think anyone follows the manuscripts religiously, and also that the current trial-and-error approach is better anyways.
>>796137
Some authors are known to be reliable though, some had known credentials among the royal or ducal courts, we know they trained high-status knights or lord, so even if they weren't necessarily the baddest people ever, some people who had time and money went to train with them among many.
Some treatises were talked about decades after the author died and cited has very good.
Most certainly, it's not most of the treatises, but especially starting with the 16th century, we have some good ideas of the valor of the authors.
![AT-TAC-307-04[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/ElBtBHp.jpg "AT-TAC-307-04[1].jpg")
back mounted swords.
just a meme or something that was really done and practical?
>>796566
It was done for long swords that couldn't easily be worn to the side, but were light enough to be worn on the back.
They weren't drawn from the back though, usually, if you were rich enough to have a large two handers, you had at least one servant to help you unsheated it.
So yeah as a travel and transportation thing if you planned to move on foot, but that's about it.
>>796566
Very awkward to draw like that, really.
>>796566
In Japan it appears to have happened at times. Though that would probably be akin to having it stowed for long term transport, don't expect to draw anything from there. In Europe the larger swords seem to just have been shouldered like rifles or polearms.
>>796579
Some quick testing suggests that the length of blade I can draw from my back is about half of what I can manage from my hip.
>>796571
>not having a wagon to carry your weapons during travels
pleb
>>797250
Sometimes, you just want people to know you have this very big weapon...
Question from OP
Since this board went to shit, shall we move to /his/ ?
>>798805
>shitstorm incoming
>>798805
The way you make it less shit is to have good discussion and ignore the shit you don't like.
Quit being a bitch.
>>798805
/his/ is full of pollacks, philosophising teens and those haplofaggots. Do you really think the demographic there is less toxic?
>>798805
No the HEMA General has been dead for months anyway. Posting HEMA THREADS THERE WOULD BE NO HARM BUT FOR THE SORT OF QUESTIONS THAT THESE THREADS ACCRUE They belong here. i hit caps and my processors fucked I'm not going back.
>>800402
>Do you really think the demographic there is less toxic?
Less toxic than man opera, well let me think, about htis.
When is jousting/tilting going to make an actual comeback? I was thinking about this in the car the other day and I was like "man, modern jousting would be fucking awesome." When I got home I looked it up and it's all boring, scripted Renaissance fair garbage or that shitty, lame looking Full Metal Jousting and that just won't do.
How do we get jousting to have a comeback? I've actually talked to some friends of mine and they showed some interest, but don't really want to commit. Shits.
P.S. what the fuck happened to this board it's all fucking fake-ass wrestling now that shit needs to be on /tv/ or something
>>804428
The spectacle and trappings of it all has always been a big part of jousting, so trying a "HEMA black" variant might be missing the point to some degree.
Not that this means it's impossible to hold things to a high standard. Since the whole thing is by its very nature competitive and tournament-centred the whole "martial proficiency" bit should come somewhat naturally. And for the garb and whatnot, well, Toby Capwell seems to be able to pull it off to a decent standard at least.
Hoping for it to become a big thing (even by the somewhat modest HEMA standards) may be a bit much though. As expensive as things can get for longsword or so, for jousting you will at the bare minimum need to add a horse as well, which needs food, housing and exercise,and must somehow be transported to the events. Something tells me that can get hideously expensive in a hurry.
If you do wish to try to make it a bigger thing than it is, it might be best to go to work not just on getting HEMA people into the saddle, but also trying to make people from the equine sports sphere armour up. Not only should that broaden the recruitment basis considerably, but I suspect that getting the protection is less of a hassle for someone who has (access to) a horse, than for someone with HEMA gear to upgrade that for jousting, and then add the horse and accessories.
>>804428
>>804475
I can hardly afford a sparring longsword or just functional protective gear. The thought of spending tens of thousands of bucks on horse and armour makes me want to protest the injustice of the world, hoist the Bundschuh, slit some noble throats and sack the city of Weinsberg in a totally well-thought out political move.
Peasants stronk!
>>804428
Jousting is only for the HEMA elite, pleb.
With the crusade about to be called will you be using your HEMA skills to kill Muslims in the Holy Land?
>>806091
Fuck off
>>806091
>have kebab in my class
>kebabs are doing historic fighting manual study
(Razmafzar starting up)
>we no longer have need of war, we can just get swordsmen from all around the world to champion their countries' national interests
My body is ready.
>>806091
Nah I failed medical.
>>745028
fuck you man
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7YyBtMxZgQs
>>809704
>He thinks people practice weapon based martial arts for modern self-defence.
>>809704
They were originally supposed to fight in that scene so the story goes. Not so sure what they were planning there.
Still funny to watch. I used to assume this guy was hired as an expert swordsman.
>>809713
Oh you do it for reenactment?
>>809817
You tickle me with your trolling.
I do it for historical education and physical activity. I do it for recreation and because it interests me, and I enjoy competing and learning.
>>809761
Harrison ford had diarrhea so they had to cut that scene short. it ended up working better that way imo.
>>809870
yea but what were they planning before hand. Whipping the guy?
Anyway this is only passingly HEMA related since Jones is an Archaeologist like what 30% of the HEMA community?
>>796571
>It was done for long swords that couldn't easily be worn to the side, but were light enough to be worn on the back.
No it wasn't. In Europe there is zero evidence of any back worn swords.
Hey /hemag/, I haven't been here for ages.
Does HEMA do wraps (i.e. false edge strikes) yet or are they still "not historical"?
>>810468
HEMA has always done false edge strikes most of say German long swords master strikes are composed of them in one variation or other. You could do wraps all you like in any HEMA system certainly in a tournament setting in fact your opponent would encourage you trying.
>>810491
Oh okay, looks like it's definitely changed a lot.
Because just a year or so ago even saying the word "wrap" made people froth at the mouth.
I'm guessing Matt Easton must have made a video about it or something, and then everyone jumped on his bandwagon like usual.
>>810493
>fuck, the SCA bait didn't work
>let's do it again, but with extra insults, and Matt Easton thrown in
>>810006
I never talked about Europe in my post. So yeah, it was done, but probably not in Europe.
>>810493
False edge strikes and wraps are different things. False edge strike is striking with the back edge, it's always been in hema. Wraps are retarded fantasy shit that involve putting your blade past the opponent, and then bringing it back. It's hilarious crap best left in the hollywood studio.
>>810662
This. False edge is there for a reason. The use of the back edge is more prominent in the German school of fencing, especially with the longsword. Italian school knows it as well, but is a little more reluctant on its use.
>>810694
Nope
>>810612
>I never talked about Europe in my post.
You posted in a thread about European martial arts, it was implicated in your statement.
When I'm longsword sparring I usually end up fighting in line, moving only forward or back. I have no problem moving around the opponent when sparring with dussack or s&b. I only have this problem with longsword. What am I doing wrong? How can I improve? I do my drills and exercises right, I just can't do the same in sparring.
>>814389
Do you tend to strike with a passing step or an advance?
Is it just me or is Longsword the hardest. This is such a pleb thing to say but I swear to God it's the most unforgiving martial art sparring I've experienced. I felt really bad getting beaten occasionally by beginners until I started competing and seeing some of HEMAs most renowned taking similar losses. Now and again.
I blame the gloves anyway naturally.
>>814389
>>814401
I noticed that rope drills help some with longsword footwork: http://hroarr.com/rope-drill-for-hema/
Try to use strikes and huten that require you to step out of the line, left ochs, right hangetort, krump, various backedge combos. try to do hard drills, meaning full kit and one fellow is feeding you with special emphasis to the variability of your footwork. Have some guidelines on the floor and make sure you cross them with your attacks or parries
Iit is an art to know when to step out of the line and when to hold the line. also it doesn't take that much, a small sidestep, the turn of a foot, changing weight slightly and you made 50-80cm easily. try to have your footwork elegant, not overly forceful, think of dancing. If nothing helps, join a dancing class, Tango is pretty good, I shit you not.
>>814468
>try to have your footwork elegant, not overly forceful, think of dancing. If nothing helps, join a dancing class, Tango is pretty good, I shit you not.
Good idea.
>>814389
I have the same problem - I often try to step out of line, but my footwork is too slow to make it work. I guess we just need more practise.
One thing that tends to work better is forcing the line to move by Versetzen, forceful Schielhau or Zornhau etc. I guess the key to successful out-of-line manoeuvres is doing both that and the light-footed stepwork.
>>814401
Longsword is so hard because, being based on sharp weapons, it only takes very little contact for you to lose. So someone who just doesn't give a shit can usually get some sloppy hit in and cause a double kill, with only a minimum of luck.
>>815162
>So someone who just doesn't give a shit can usually get some sloppy hit in and cause a double kill, with only a minimum of luck.
I hate this so much. Some people in my club behave like this and they think they just need to get faster instead of improving their techniques to avoid the double hits.
>>815171
>I hate this so much. Some people in my club behave like this and they think they just need to get faster instead of improving their techniques to avoid the double hits.
Try Austrian rules tournament then, if you get killed, you are out of the tournament. one full hit or two slight ones gets you killed.
You can also do rotation sparring matches to the first point, two guys fight, couple guys with gear wait at the sideline. Theres a fast rotation of the fighters and if you want to stay in the ring, you gotta make clean hits and prevent being hit at all. Add 20 push-ups for double kills.
Also, it helps if you explain your newbies about the concept of parry-riposte.
>>815218
>Also, it helps if you explain your newbies about the concept of parry-riposte.
Of course I already did this, but I'll try the Austrian rules too. Thanks for the tips!
If anyone studies silver I could use a hand at my club, or anyone with a good grip on HEMA.
When I'm in open during a bout, I sometimes try to swing down in a slow motion (with no real intention to hit the other person) To cause a reaction from the other guy so that I can counter what what he throws out, but everyone at my club says that's not a good idea. I haven't really explained to people what I'm exactly trying to do, they just know when I bring my arm out slowly they'll just cut the arm off.
What do you guys think of this? Should I stop doing this?
