OFFICIAL 2015/16 MARTIAL ARTS POWER RANKINGS
Based on combat effectiveness in a modern context. Tiered by the analysis of performance in competition, utility of syllabus and core principles. Martial arts featured on this list are present due to their fame and renown amongst the international martial arts community today - it would be impossible to list every martial art and its derivatives.
Not featured are weapons based martial arts, mostly due to my own inexperience with them but also due to the fact that it is hard to compare them to bare-handed styles. The weapons aspects of any martial arts listed are also, therefore, not counted.
VERY HIGH tier: Muay Thai, Western Boxing, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Wrestling (and derivatives)
HIGH tier: Sambo, Sanda/Sanshou, Western Kickboxing, Kyokushin Karate
MIDDLE tier: Aikido, Krav Maga, Kajukenbo, Modern Army Combatives, Pencak Silat, Hapkido, Shūkōkai Karate, Taekwondo
LOW tier: Shotokan Karate, Capoeira, American Kenpo, Wing Chun, German Ju-Jutsu
Jujutsu, Tang Soo Do, Sumo
VERY LOW tier: Systema, Ninjutsu, Wushu, T'ai Chi Ch'uan
I really find it hilarious how you guys list sports at the top of your combat effectiveness lists
MMA is not combat, just so you know
I'd say enough Sambo belongs in the very high tier
>>743568
Please explain how and why while wrestling and Judo are in the Very High category Sambo is not?
Conceptually as well as practically I cannot understand your reasoning here.
Further, I can see how you may make an argument about MT using knees and elbows as well as clinch to put it in the Very High, but if you are going to put boxing up there what prompted you to have kickboxing as well as goddamn sanda in the lower tier?
Please do elaborate
>>743568
OP what exactly makes you qualified to make this list?
>>743582
>>743580
Simply because I haven't seen Sambo used to the same effect as BJJ or Judo in mixed competition. I think it's a fantastic style, but I haven't seen enough of its application to truly gauge it as a very high tier art. It's excellent no doubt, and a Samboist could do very well vs. any other grappling art, but Sambo does not (yet) have that level of flexibility and results that BJJ and Judo have attained over the years.
>>743582
The reason boxing is so high because in my experience, the hand aspect of boxing is trained to a very high level, while the combination of kicking and boxing means that a kickboxer isn't really excellent at either in particular. A jack of all trades situation. And I didn't put them in a low tier, they are still high tier. Just not the same level of efficiency and reliability as pure boxing.
>>743589
Just my opinion.
>>743596
Have you actually ever trained?
>>743598
Hurr durr
>>743596
>Simply because I haven't seen Sambo used to the same effect as BJJ or Judo in mixed competition.
>>743600
Psht, cancrusher, I could beat him easy
Just watch this December
Also, why did you post a picture of your room?
>>743580
>>743582
>>743586
beause sambo is very localised to eastern europe and russia and doesnt produce as many good fighters as other grappling styles.
strange as well that all the big sambo guys who came into mma in the last 5 years cant seem to get their shit together. nurmagomedov is the closest but has been injured for like 2 years now or somethin
>>743568
If wrestling's derivatives get to be recognised, kyo's should too. Hell, I'd argue that ashiharanand enshin are more evolved than kyokushin. Kudo is definitely superior.
>>743596
>A jack of all trades situation.
If a boxer were to train in boxing for 2 years for the same amount of time as that same person in an alternate reality that trained kickboxing, with very similar training routines and lifestyles, they both would be just as good at their art over all, except the boxer doesn't train shit with kicks.
>>743596
>A jack of all trades situation.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=zQ7bbmjtAB0
>How would a champion boxer do against a champion kickboxer? Several boxers have stepped up to the challenge, and the results are mostly the same. The weapons they faced were in direct relation with the way they stand, move, and attack. What worked in one sport must be adapted before it becomes efficient or effective in another.
Striking:
Totally effective forms of striking: Muay Thai, Sanshou, Kudo, Shootboxing
Effective forms of striking with some missing concepts: Boxing, Savate, Knockdown Karate,
Forms of striking with some useful elements hidden amongst nonsense: Taekwondo, Traditional Karate, Hapkido, Kenpo, Traditional Jujitsu
Absolute nonsense forms of striking that will leave nothing but bad habits: Wing Chun, Systema, "Ninjutsu", Capoeira, Shou Shu, Taido
Grappling:
Totally effective forms of grappling: Wrestling, BJJ, Judo (Traditional), Sambo
Effective forms of grappling with some missing concepts: Judo (modern olympic), Ssierum
Forms of grappling with some useful elements hidden amongst nonsense: Sumo, Shodokan Aikido, Hapkdio, Traditional Jujitsu
Absolute nonsense forms of grappling that will leave nothing but bad habits: Aikido, "Ninjutsu", Tai Chi
>>743794
Whoops. Move Sumo up a rank and then it's done and we never need to argue again.
High tier: Emei Fist, Overturning Fist, Tiger Claw System, 佛家 "Buddha palm", T'ai Chi C'huan
Mid tier: Muay Thai, North South Fist, 少林拳 "Shaolin attack from above", Chinese and Mongolian styles of wrestling
Low tier: MMA, Springing legs style, Form-Intent Fist, Yuejiaquan (岳家拳) - Yue family Fist/Boxing
>>743616
Ali Bagautinov (had a title shot against Mighty Mouse), Rustam Khabilov, Vitaly Minakov (current Bellator HW Champion) and Andrei Arlovski (during his current UFC run) are doing quite good
>>743568
>Based on combat effectiveness in a modern context.
What is exactly this "modern context" though ?
>>743837
As in, how effective is it today. Maybe Jujutsu was the best thing going back in the 19th century, but today it is outdated thanks to the development and usage of styles with better striking and grappling, hence making it obsolete. See what I mean?
>>743840
I fail to see how a set of techniques could be obsolete but well, especially in unarmed combat, but well, it's always the same lapsus since forever I guess.
To me "modern context" translate to "what sell", but whatever...
It looks like "this style can't be good cause I can't make it work", nothing new under the sun.
>>743842
The best way to explain it is training methodology.
It doesn't matter how effective an Aikido lock is if it's trained in incredibly sterile and compliant scenarios. That leads to bad habits.
>>743842
Because new ones get developed all the time, pressure tested, etc.
BJJ is constantly evolving, new techniques, etc.
Muay Thai has added techniques from western boxing, etc.
Jujutsu for example only stagnated, an old school Jujutsu fighter would lose badly to a modern trained MMA fighter
Read everything with salt, I do this for the simple pleasure of it, not to win an argument.
>>743843
>training methodology
So we are comparing training or techniques ? I completely agree that good techniques trained badly leads to nothing interesting, so what is a martial art ? a set of techniques, a mindset, a type of training ?
To me "modern" context means nothing, tournament, street encounters, family brawl, drunk brawl, those are context that existed in every society at every time. Preparing yourself for tournaments is a specific activity that requires a specific training that might ("might") do not so well in another scenario (three persons ambush you and you're tired - and an evil genius is plotting your doom).
>>743844
>Jujutsu for example only stagnated, an old school Jujutsu fighter would lose badly to a modern trained MMA fighter
But what is the context of the encounter ? you seem to think of an agreed encounter, what if it's not ? This is a strawman like thing, A will beat B under any regular circonstances, but those circonstances never exist, it's theoretical while martial arts are practical first.
My biggest grip is with this "modern" thing. Context is key, but we should be more intelligent than to think that we ought to do new stuff for the sake of new. Not everyone looks into martial arts for the same purpose, personnal dedication is usually the more important trait of a martial arts pursue, no matter how "old" and "obsolete" the art is.
It's just the quest for the bestest style, as if it could exist at any time.
Anyway, my typical question is always this:
"How are you gonna use your martial art against someone who could hurt you but you don't want to hurt ?" Fighting your drunk idiotic friend is usually a much more likely stressful scenario that being jumped by three armed commandos looking for your purse.
>>743576
it says martial arts though, not MIXED martial arts
>>743848
>"How are you gonna use your martial art against someone who could hurt you but you don't want to hurt ?" Fighting your drunk idiotic friend is usually a much more likely stressful scenario that being jumped by three armed commandos looking for your purse.
wtf easy, knock his ass out, talk shit get hit
>>743836
if by "quite good" you mean "never going to hold a belt" than yes, they are doing quite good.
>>743848
Considering that many grappling martial arts can be used to safely restrain a drunken idiot, I would advocate those but I see your point. I like your thinking and line of argumentation, anon.
>>743840
If jujutsu is outdated its because people are not walking around in hakama wearing swords and carrying tanto.
Its not that the training method is necessarily deficient. in fact given the admittedly absurd scenario above, many those old jujitsu systems would probably do better than many modern grappling and striking systems
>>743576
Do you know why they're sports and your krab mangoo isn't?
>>743568
>classifying aikido as mid tier
>>743815
Kill yourself
>>743713
No, end of story. 1/2 the time means half as effective if you're trying to be objective. Being stupid is a crime; stop it.
>>743815
so the supreme shit poster, who believe he's 'outing a neckbeard' has the taste of an 8 yo Mainlander? China plz go home, you wouldn't even be able to differentiate half of those in a Mainland KungFu tournament.
>>743794
Wooo! Someone mentioned savate!
High tier: Military combat, Krav Maga, Sambo, Filipino Kali.
Mid tier: MMA
Low tier: CMA
>>744024
Do you mean military combatives? Because if you do, my coach was part of their creation and it was heavily based on his MMA experience.
>>744024
>>744032
Why do people have this idea that the military is some assassin group with secret hand to hand techniques that the general public isn't allowed to ever learn?
99% of the military has less hand to hand combat training than a kid that's trained at an mma gym for a year
Oh right, im talking to kids on this site, I forgot for a second...
>>743794
>Absolute nonsense forms of striking that will leave nothing but bad habits
>I haven't trained them well, and I don't know how to apply the techniques so they suck
Why no ishinryu?
>>743568
>Based on combat effectiveness in a modern context
There will always be weapons in real life self defense scenarios. Any MA that ignores the use of weapons is sport fighting.
>>743568
>MIDDLE tier: Aikido
aikido is not a martial art
>>744131
>There will always be weapons in real life self defense scenarios
i can show you literally a thousand videos of streetfights where no weapons are being used.
you
are
retarded
>>743927
>wtf easy, knock his ass out, talk shit get hit
My question was
>"How are you gonna use your martial art against someone who could hurt you but you don't want to hurt ?"
The idiotic drunk is just a (bad) scenario among others.
Anyway, that's my typical grip about mainly or purely striking styles, it's that they (usually) don't teach how to restrain somehow who has a violent behaviour but who you can't afford to harm or hit. How do you deal with the angry teen cousin ? the annoying drunk ? without beating them up, if you don't have an answer to those which are common situations, then you have a martial art that is fully able only in dire situations and to me, that a very bad thing to have.
But then if people and friendship problem could be solved by beating people up, it would be way easier. Life isn't like anime sadly... Your friend and family usually don't like it when you hit them over petty things, just because that's what you've training into.
>>743950
Thanks, I do agree on grappling styles and frankly, that's one of my main point about them being fundamental to have in a martial art regimen (though they don't need to be the main thing).
Let's be real:
There isn't any fighter that beats a pro MMA champion in the cage.
The way they train makes the ultimate balance and combination and is not beatable by any other style.
>>743568
>LOW tier: German Ju-Jutsu
Please explain.
A style that allows many Judo throws plus leg attacks and teaches full contact sparring and even some basics of weapon fighting is low tier?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T4LtB7KYHxM
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RO_cdD3_lGE
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=runIUA0lByo
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=yP3yMMJwwok
>>743596
>Simply because I haven't seen Sambo used to the same effect as BJJ or Judo in mixed competition.
YEAH, UNLIKE AIKIDO AMIRITE?
>>744178
>the angry teen cousin ? the annoying drunk ?
Not the guy you were arguing with but I'd also just punch them, or clinch them. If they're being violent then you can incapacitate them. If they're just annoying you then that's too bad, don't touch them. Simple.
>>743815
This has got to be a troll.
You know what's funny about all these Chinese Gung Fu styles? It's that none of it really matters... Buddha's Palm, Tiger Claw, Baby Monkey, etc. is all little more than LARPing.
Chinese martial arts is pathetic specifically because of these fantasy martial arts role players.
>>744304
Expert, are you?
>>744179
MMA is pretty much unchallenged yea.
There isn't anything that compares in effectiveness other than weapon usage.
>>744310
>There isn't anything that compares in effectiveness other than weapon usage.
Except for MMA training + eye poke, throat punch, and groin kick training & sparring
>>744155
You're looking at social posturing, young males establishing themselves in the pecking order, not self-defense situations. When people really want to kill you dead (e.g. prison, muggings) they ALWAYS use weapons.
rated by effectiveness, fun and mythos surrounding it
>untouchable tier:
muay thai, judo
>high tier:
brazilian jiu jitsu, kickboxing, kyokushin karate, combat sambo
>mid tier:
boxing, sambo, greco-roman and freestyle wrestling
>low tier:
krav maga, jiu jitsu, all other karate styles, tae kwon do, jeet kune do
>aikido tier:
wing chun, hapkido
>>744463
So you are saying that training in a "vale tudo" like approach MMA (it sounds awful but you get the idea) would put you in a solid chance of beating someone who is roughly trained and who has say a machete ? or an axe ?
Not to say you're delusional but... weapons can make all unarmed training useless way too easily. Not to say the training it's useless in itself, but if you think that hardcore mma regimen can handle and deliver the same level of violence that someone armed with an axe, a machete, or God Forbids a sword, well you're delusional.
>>744155
No, anon, you are retarded.
You're a teenaged civilian virgin that has never been in anything more than maybe a slap fight with your friend in high school, or maybe got the shoe a couple times when momma hit the bottle.
No. If you want to practically defend yourself, you buy a gun. If you want to get your collarbone broken and wake up with bruised ribs, pull your kubotan or retarded kerambit on Jamal and his three hood buddies.
Sorry, but your cherry picked examples don't work in real life. If somebody attacks you after hours in person, he's trying to fucking kill you, not fight you.
This is what excessive anime and vidya does to impressionable kids, god damn.
>>744522
Are you implying your dysfunctional RBSD neckbeard art will work in those scenarios?
>>744710
Show me German JuJutsu being successfully used in mixed competition or a proficient German JuJutsuka using his art against other arts or winning a weapons fight with his basic weapon fighting and it'll go up higher
>>744723
Dude, it's literally full contact MMA, at least in it's heaviest category ("Allkampf Pro").
I won't get into silly discussions and I don't care about your list, I just wanted to tell you that you are wrong.
Have a nice day.
>>744310
>MMA is pretty much unchallenged yea
>There isn't anything that compares in effectiveness other than weapon usage
>nothing compares to MMA except for weapon usage
>>744463
>MMA + using trained effective and illegal strikes surpasses MMA
>>744562
>you're saying that MMA beats weapons, and you're delusional because of that
What's it like being delusional?
>>744727
>I don't care
>ur wrong
>dont b mean
>have nice day
Okay, bud
>>744764
Oh god are you literally retarded?
You make a fucking tier-list like a 12 y/o and I tell you that it's fucking ridiculous to put style that teaches striking and grappling and has full contact tournaments lower than Aikido and you answer like a 12 year old "blah blah show me one working example"..
I can't take faggots like you seriously, ask me how I know you don't even train and judge things without ever putting sweat into something.
Fucking kids these days.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Z9CnW2JYChs
>>744795
Are you new here?
>>744522
>When people really want to kill you dead (e.g. prison, muggings)
1. i can show you thousands of non lethal prison fights
2. people who want to mug you want to steal your shit above killing you
>>744839
no he's actually right.
from what i saw in those videos this german jiu jitsu at least trains right.
your criteria of "x art must have fighters in mma" is kinda shallow
>>744702
i dont know what kind of projecting issues you have with me buddy.
all i said was that weapons dont always appear in a self defence scenario. never did i say that guns arent the best defence or that weapons arent something you shouldnt be preparing for.
however
>If somebody attacks you after hours in person, he's trying to fucking kill you, not fight you.
spoken like a true RBSD ninjer. do you guys really jerk off to the thought of being mugged this much?
>>743836
fedor and khabib
>>744851
I posted the 227.gif for a reason.
4chan is like a bunch of little girls with out of control machine guns.
I don't give a fuck about who's right or wrong.
>>744559
>judo babies putting their jacket dependent art over glorious wrestling
>>744861
>glourious sweaty men giving each other an "oil check"
>n-no homo
>>744723
show me a german mixed martial artist.
mma is tiny in germanic europe for legal reason. so a lack in gjj practitioners competing in mma is no real proof that gjj sucks for mma. not saying it doesnt, just that there are too few german mixed martial artists to tell yet
>>743716
You guys really are completly unable to understand a simple statement aren't you ?
>>743568
Effective: Muay Thai, Western Boxing, Judo, Wrestling, Sambo, MMA, Grappling, Kickboxing
Less effective but still good: Traditional BJJ (just 'cause rolling in the dirt on the street is not the best idea), Sanshou, Kudo, Kyokushin, Savate (do Kickboxing or Muay Thai instead), Sumo.
You'd better go dancing: Aikido, Taekwondo, a buch of other spiritual faggy gook schools(Karate, Wushu, etc), Kapoeira, any other 'new wave' martial arts (Systema, Krav maga, and so on).
Rate.
>>744985
Dennis siver? but i think the german mma crowd mostly is absed in thai boxing and kyukushinkay ? karate ( the bare nuckle full contact one). not in ju jutsu.
Basically : the MA with the gyms where the assholes train ( bouncers, bikers, arab clan members etc, < probably not all in the same gym).
Because you will spar with steroid rage criminal assholes. should be a good training for a night out.
>>744559
You made it hipster-chan, you made it worse than Wu
>>743568
>That low tier sumo
Lel you'll be BTFO by a single slapping of a Rikishi
>Taekwondo higher than any form of Karate
get the fuck out
I think you guys are being unfair to Krav Maga.
I'll admit I'm no expert on it, but it's self defense at its purest. Boxing you duke it out, Muay Thai too, judo is limited and you'll get your ass handed to you by a real striker.
But at least Krav Maga doesn't give a shit about rules or legality and uses effective escapes and preaches attacking in places where you get disqualified.
I mean, Krav Maga isn't A martial like others. It's just there for you to neutralize your opponent fast and run away.
>>746533
i think you have a misconception about "sport" styles and their rules
A lot of high level and even mid level athletes will and do play dirty. Just because there are rules against certain things doesn't stop people from doing it, In fact because of rules, fighters found ways to sneak cheap shots and fouls to give them an edge. Wither its due to poor reffingor taking advantage of someone. Dirty fighting isn't exclusive to krav maga/street fighter types and you will see tons of so called ahtletes and sport fighters do the same foul. And here's the real advantage you now have someone who can and will do the same fouls and illegal techniques, however they have the timing, reflexes ,strength and technique knowledge to combine, defend and attack with their skill set on top of doing cheap shots.
>>746535
What I'm trying to say is even if foul play appears in a reffed match, Krav Maga makes it its business to fight unfairly because it is designed to handle unfair situations with dirty responses.
To me it's merely a self defense. Not a martial art and I believe the two can be mutually exclusive.
>>746537
But you're missing my point. Dirty responses and tactics and techniques, are common. A child knows how to response with an eye poke or nut shot or pulling hair. However learning to methodically break down, tactically and calmly apply your technique gives you a deeper skill set to handle.
People parading around self defense and being to deadly honestly in my mind's eye and experience are people trying to con and teach you low quality crap, instilling a false sense of confidence that is more harmful to a person in a bad situation then knowing any "sport" rule set. A false sense of confidence will get you killed in an altercation fast.
>>746538
Ok no argument there. Finally, I would not get in to a ring with solely the style of Krav Maga. I think you understand why. Krav Maga is not a martial art for the ring. But I still trust the lessons they teach, be dishonorable in the defense of your health and life.
>>743568
>God tier
What i do
>high tier
What i like
>medium tier
What i sort of like
>shit tier
What i dont like
Look at me guys im an expert now
>>746535
This. I learned to check kicks quickly and effectively in Taekwondo, specifically because leg checks are illegal in that.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=b3Mlao2iHo0
Taekwondo > Krav Maga
>>747774
>>743568
>combat effectiveness in a modern context
not this shit again.
i direct you to:
http://www.nononsenseselfdefense.com/bestMA.htm
it depends on what you need it for.
street fights? ring rights? self defense? instigating violence? police work? indoor? outdoor? life/death situations? multiple people? serious intent to harm? restraint? just have it look good so it goes on your CV for when you become an actor? etc. etc.
your ranking system is invalid.
also. fun fact - there is at least one guy in MMA who mains tai chi - look up Nick Osipczak
another fun fact - for MT fans, look up Lethwei.
its indonesian version of MT.
>no gloves
>headbutts, knuckle rakes allowed
>getting downed is fine, provided downed fighter wants to keep going
>match ends when one person cant get back up
lot of bloody matches.
shit i wish this was more popular.
>>748274
Sounds retarded as fuck, no time to get good because you're braindead after two years of training
>>743576
>I literally cannot read
>>746537
Krav maga cannot be used outside of the military. You will be put in jail for doing what they "teach" at krav maga classes. It's excessive force and no amount of begging and reasoning in court will save you.
>>746535
Also, I can confirm this. Whenever I used to spar or go to competition in Judo I would sometimes slam as hard as I could (without it being noticeable by the judges of course) whenever I grabbed the opponents gi. It's kind of a dick move, I know that, but it was damn effective and would often cause my opponent to stagger, lose his breath or go off balance.
It was basically a punch disguised as "grabbing". My instructor did notice I was doing it though and said I should just not do it too much.
In other words, all martial artists use dirty tricks in competitions and sparing, and they all they know that everyone else is doing it too. There is nothing special about martial arts that teach "dirty moves" deliberately.
>>748274
>Lethwei
It's actually from Myanmar, not Indonesia.
Fun fact: when the all the countries decided to get their sport into the Olympics, they decided to come together and give up their local names: Lethwei, Tomoi, Yaw Yan, Pradal Serey, etc under the unified banner of Indochinese Boxing.
The only holdout was Thailand, which wanted it called Muay Thai or nothing.
>>751364
>all martial artists use dirty tricks in competitions and sparing, and they all they know that everyone else is doing it too.
Such delusional lies.
Where would you place Hakko-Ryu Jujutsu and Go Ju Jujutsu?
>>751364
>all martial artists use dirty tricks in competitions and sparing, and they all they know that everyone else is doing it too.
No
>>743568
>VERY HIGH tier:
>Judo
tfw the martial art you picked almost randomly is seen as a very high tier martial art
feels good for this to happen for once
>>753926
Everyone will get a shot eventually. You watch these, and they're always made by hipsters.
They don't want to just do what everyone expects, because then you're not doing anything original.
So they have to shove in random martial arts they have no experience with (Kajukenbo, Shukukai Karate) and move stuff up and down arbitrary in a slightly contrarian fashion so you can appear to be on the cutting edge of internet shit talking.
>>743568
Let me explain what happens in a real fight
3 niggers try and mug you
>TKD
they are confused by your constant moving and can't work out how to attack through your fast kicks, one kick takes out a guy, the others are wary and help their friend get away from you, you were not harmed and beat up one nigger with internal injuries. you won mainly due to their confusion at fighting a kicker, not because it's an effective style against well trained opponents.
>Muay Thai
you beat the shit out of one guy, another guy attacks you, you beat the shit out of him, the last guy ruins off. you are bloody and hurt, but alive and beat up two niggers to a bloody pulp.
>Wing Chun
the first one can't get a solid hit on you, as another approaches you punch the first one in the throat and he goes down, the otherguys think this is bullshit because you look like a dork and attack you. you win the fight but get hurt, in the end you only beat up one nigger
> Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
>you get the first guy to the ground and get him in a hold imminently, you feel the life leaving his body as WHAM you get stomped in the head. they kill you
>Wrestling
somebody records the fight on their phone camera, the niggers rape you and you become the inspiration for the latest installment of "poor little white boy".
>Sumo
you crush one to death with your size and have a heart attack trying to stand up
>Krav Maga
you kick one in the balls and the others beat the shit out of you, they rape you and cut off your genitals
>Capoeira
your hand lands on a needle, you die of aids
>>743568
>Hapkido
why so low on the list?
>>754259
why not
>>754259
It looks like a great martial art, it has grapples, counter attacks, kicks, low kicks, punches, self defense ect. It looks to be a complete package, almost a pre MMA MMA
>>754000
You mad your 2deadly kung fu isn't high tier, fag?
>>754258
>wrestlers
>getting raped
Ever been mat returned?
>>754258
kek what
>>754258
3 niggers try and mug you
>TKD
You manage a spectacular 360 degree kick which hits one dude right in the face. While he goes down, both guys charge in and punche you. You go down and get stomped to death.
>Muay Thai
You lowkick the first guy, he goes down. The next on comes at you, but you block his punches and knock him out. The last guy attacks you, you use your clinchig to ellbow him. Your hand hurts like shit but you won.
>Wing Chun
You charge in with your chain punches and manage to knock down the first guy. The second guy manages to grab your arms and goes into clinch. You have no grappling defense and go down to the ground. You get stomped to death.
>Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu
You surprise the first guy with a single leg takedown, he goes down. The next guy approches you, you manage to sweep him off his feet but he takes you to the ground. You immediately sweep him and get on top, but the other guy gets you from behind. You punch the guy below you unconscious, but then you get kicked in the head by the guy behind you. You wake up in hospital and have severe injuries, a torn asshole and AIDS.
>Wrestling
You immediately do a hip throw against one of the guys and knock him out. The other two guys attack you. Scrambling, you manage to get on top and take the kicks by your insane physical stats. You knock one guy out with Ground & Pound, the last one breaks your nose and runs away.
>Sumo
You charge at them and they bounce off, fall to the ground and you jump on them and splash them.
>Krav Maga
You get get hit by the first Haymaker and go down. You get robbed but they let you survive since you didn't hurt them at all.
>Capoeira
You do some artistic stunts, the guys are fascinated because they do breakdance and decide to let you go.
>>754264
it also lacks sparring and their "grappling" consists of aikido level wristlocks
>>754310
This.
Jack of all trades, master of none.
I'm suprised tang soo do is low tier. Steve sur grandeza of Philippines is former tang soo do. You can see his fights on his channel. I idolized him as a fighter until I heard he fixed his "wkbf Muay Thai k1" world title. I was told that he was so good that he was given a world title fight right away even though he never fought pro Muay Thai or mma.
>>754340
>im surprised tang so doo is low tier
>because there was this guy who fixed his fight to become champ and he trained in tang so doo
if your logic center broken or something?
>>754322
>Jack of all trades, matter of none, but sill greater than the master of one.
Here's my take on things.
>BJJ and Muay Thai together: Usually memesters who didn't bother to get good at either grappling or striking, and who usually took the two together as part of an "MMA" class. Usually both their striking and grappling are weak as a result in spite of both of those being good martial arts with a lot of synergy.
>Krav Maga/Ninjitsu/Taijitsu/Jeet-kun-do: Usually they've been scammed. They are typically edgelords looking for the edgiest sounding martial arts styles that they can find because they want to be special snowflakes, and there are plenty of hucksters who are happy to scam these people with ineffective techniques and pseudo-systems of questionable legitimacy posing as the real deal. I've never met anyone who trained in any of those first three who was legitimate, and with JKD the only legitimate people involved were trained in Wing-Chun as well as other forms of fighting.
>"MMA": MMA is a catch all term that applies to any broadly trained fighter.
>TKD: 99% of them are shit because they are trained not to punch, which makes the 1% who can actually fight stand out as terrifying. Usually those guys also train in hapkido which is a sister art, so they can usually strike with feet, fists, and grapple.
>Karate: Typically solid fighters or McDojo types. It runs the gamut.
>Boxing: They can usually fight pretty well, but unless they've cross trained something they struggle with kicks and grappling.
>Wing Chun: They can't kick well, and have trouble closing the distance against strikers while having trouble fending off grapplers. It has good techniques and methodology involved, but it takes someone with a lot of experience to apply it effectively.
>>754613
>no, it has sparring
prove it
>>743981
>implying that it should be top level tier
>not knowing that aikido is shit
>>754394
>do BJJ and Muay Thai
>hurr memesters XD
They're not memesters, they just pick the objectively best and most available arts. Don't be a faggot contrarian
stop grouping actual striking arts used for disabling attackers with ones that are based on a ruleset for a television show.
OFFICIAL 2015/16 MARTIAL ARTS POWER RANKINGS
BASED ON ACTUAL COMBAT EFFECTIVENESS
mar·tial
adjective
of or appropriate to war
ULTRA HIGH TIER: SILO OPERATOR, NUCLEAR BOMBER PILOT, NUCLEAR SUBMARINE CREW
HIGH TIER: PILOT, MILITARY NAVAL VESSEL CREWMAN
MIDDLE TIER: ARMOURED VEHICLE CREWMAN, ARTILLERYMEN, INFANTRY
LOW TIER: UNTRAINED MILITIAMEN
NOT RELEVANT IN A MODERN COMBAT CONTEXT TIER: ALL MELEE MARTIAL ARTS
>>754929
>NOT RELEVANT IN A MODERN COMBAT CONTEXT TIER: ALL MELEE MARTIAL ARTS
Not true!
Just because war is more common, it doesn't mean other kinds of combat for other kinds of people don't exist!
Sure, let's just pretend that spies don't exist, poor gangs don't exist, gangs in Japan where guns are outlawed don't exist, and bar fights don't exist.
>>754929
>because soldiers don't ever get close to each other in war
>>754309
>You wake up in hospital and have severe injuries, a torn asshole and AIDS.
>>754929
Then why do all soldiers all over the world get taught hand to hand combat and knife fighting? Russia's army is (one of?) the best of the world and teach sambo.
>>754929
Sound and logical..
>"Hey, what are you looking at? Want some trouble? Give me your money or I'm gonna kick yo ass!"
>"Just one second, sir.. Yes, is this NORAD? Here's operator X-2-7-4-4-9, repeating: Here's operator X-2-7-4-4-9. We have an immediate emergency, set status to DEFCON 1. Yes affirmative, set status to DEFCON 1. Requiring immediate nuclear launch. The go code is.."
>"Hey, what are doing man? Give me your fucking purse already!"
>"..just one second Mr., OK? Copy, NORAD. The go code is 11-09-01-420. Coordinates are incoming. Send the president my best wishes and - god be with you."
>"Dude, I'm getting angry, give me your.."
>"Shut up, motherfucker. Now try to dodge THIS!"
>>744180
This exactly, German jujutsu evolved from Japanese jiu jitsu, not the more limited judo, and was developed for police. Why OP would list it so low is beyond me.
High tier: MMA, Muay Thai, Boxing, Kickboxing, Sanda/Sanshou, Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu, Judo, Sambo, Wrestling
Middle tier: Kyokushin Karate, Taekwondo, Sumo
Low tier: Everything else
Shit tier: Krav Maga, Systema, Ninjutsu, Aikido
>>754309
>doesn't browse this board but decided to post anyway
>>755356
MMA isn't a martial art, it's a sport that lets people find out ways to blend martial arts.
>>755363
It was like that in the past, now it's a martial art.
>>755378
citation pls
>>755378
>now it's a martial art.
So is it Muay Thai + BJJ?
>take Muay Thai class
>take BJJ class
Hey guis, I'm an MMA fighter.
>>743576
>MMA is not combat
>I have never been in a fight where I wasn't wearing my taekwondo pajamies.
>>743582
Russophobia
>>746257
>One kick to the kneecaps
>Hospital
>>755388
>So is it Muay Thai + BJJ?
No, it's not.
>>754394
>>754258
Finally some sense, when will people realise that yes, Brazilian butt-scootch Meme Jitsu is top tier for safe-space sports kerfuffles, but will get your ass kicked in most real life situations.
Tbh I think the main reason Wing Chun gets such a bad rep is that many of the people who learn it are edgy teenagers with zero physical conditioning
>>755662
>defends wing chun
>shits on bjj
i knew /asp/ was going downhill but not that bad
>>743568
>aikido, krav, kaju, army combatives, pencak silat and hapkishit above shotokan
>not low tier
at least shotokan has quite a few representatives on UFC and other MMA leagues. shotokan is legit anon.
also
>sumo
>low tier
sumo is no joke dude. i have seem high level judokas competing in judo and getting rekt. it's brutal.
>>744001
a nigga that trains 6 months of MT and 6 months of BJJ will rek a nigga who trains 1 year of bjj or a nigga who trains 1 year of MT.
a nigga that trains 6 months of punching and 6 months of kicking, will rekt a nigga who trains 1 year of punching and a nigga who trains 1 year of kicking.
>>754929
but all of those guys have to follow orders of somebody else. being a general is more effective than everything else because he commands all the guys you mentioned.
>>755662
>Brazilian butt-scootch Meme Jitsu is top tier for safe-space sports kerfuffles, but will get your ass kicked in most real life situations.
That's not true, it has some disadvantages against multiple opponents (That's why Judo + Boxing is recommended for the street) but it's still okay for the street if you focus on the standup part of it (mostly wrestling takedowns).
>Tbh I think the main reason Wing Chun gets such a bad rep is that many of the people who learn it are edgy teenagers with zero physical conditioning
The bad reputation come from the 90s, when WC students were claiming they were the ultimate badasses with the 2deadly4u techniques. Back then many bouncers trained WingChun and those guys could fight, of course. But the typical WC brainwashing is awful, I have never met boxers or judoka who claim they are the ultimate mofos, but WC guys very often (one guy with long hair: "yeah, it is a disadvantage in a fight. But then again you wouldn't be able to touch my hair in a fight." - and that's not the only time I heard such things).
My personal point of view is that a friend of mine (ex bouncer) who was a very high WC grade told me that WC has advantages and can be used, but he highly recommended cross training in boxing. WC as a standalone system has loopholes (i.e. too much focusing about "winning the centerline" when you can just move to side and throw a hook) and some issues with the training (often no "real" sparring, no hard testing of the techqniques, too much chi sao). Also sticky hands is not bad, but if you have no grappling to back it up you are putting yourself at a risk because not maintaining distance.
So I think it's a shit system like /asp/ says, the WC guy are usualy explosive and very fast in "running you over", but it has some things that need adjustment. Overall I'd take boxing over WC.
>>755914
Both are good martial arts who got sold for more than it's worth.
>>755949
Sorry, I meant to write:
"So I DON'T think it's a shit system like /asp/ says (..)"
>>755949
>>755951
>it's not the art that gives itself a bad rep, it's the edgy practitioners
>high level WC bouncers who apply their skills on the streets can use WC effectively, but agree that some things aren't that practical
>there's not enough sparring
>sticky hands isn't so bad, but it needs context
>so it's not a shit system, but it has some things that need adjustment
>western boxing > wing chun
What the hell is German JJ
>>755915
sumo is low because you really need the body for it to use it effectively, and it has no answer to strikes
>>755953
Exactly. Some fancy stuff works, other fancy stuff doesn't work so well. All in all it lacks some things boxing have.
>>755973
First of all it HAS strikes (a littel bit disguised though). Also if you charge in with that much weight strikes don't change much on both sides.
If a car moves at you at full speed, could you stop it by shooting the driver? Theoretically yes, but practically..
>>755971
See this comment: >>744180
>>755974
https://youtu.be/zuzImQo7cdg?list=LLNS76pYVHRcbZbhphSXqg6w&t=42
>>755979
>striking vs grappling
>>756059
>If a car moves at you at full speed, could you stop it by shooting the driver? Theoretically yes, but practically..
Practically a beanpole Frenchman Savate'd a Sumo guy into submission in 20 seconds
Your point is invalid
>>756082
your evidence is still anecdotal, nit picking individual situations instead of looking at trends.
>>756179
>nit picking individual situations instead of looking at trends.
>trends
We don't even have consistent variables, a lot of which aren't even isolated.
We don't have a foundation in which we could stem knowledge from, any "trends" we notice doesn't prove much, if anything at all.
>>743568
>Krav Maga middle tier
wew lad
>>743568
>capoeira
>low tier
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=hNYklGAr0Vg
>>756179
What trends? This is a fight of a sumo vs. a striker. Sumo, never having trained to defend against strikes (head down, hands up, chin tucked, etc.) takes a kick like a complete noob and is rocked for it. Sumo isn't a martial art, it's a sport/showmanship type of thing. You'd never fight someone by grabbing them and pushing them out of a circle.
>>757040
what if you're standing on a cliff
checkmate fucko
>>757066
>not learning the flying-squirrel Jutsu
>>755949
But anon, if you're focusing on wrestling takedowns, then why not just take wrestling?
>>754309
>spectacular kick, knockout one guy
>expecting other guys do something aggressive against you
niggers will run and take their buddy (if they are smart enough), otherwise, they just run away. They are thieves, robbers, rats. They just want your money AND RUN. There aren't MMA fighters.
also...
What is a nigger? What is mug? What is fear?
>>758089
>What is a nigger? What is mug? What is fear?
What is reading comprehension? What is retardedness?
>>758090
Im new on this board, and i just started Aikido, why is it that everyone hates aikido? is it a Meme here?
I like it because it brings you more oportunity to surprise other people, and i like the randori training, when you face multiple enemies coming at you.
I can see that it isnt efective in 1 on 1, but for that i would just rely on Boxing.
TKD and BJJ have something in common, they are both incomplete martial arts. TKD needs grappling and BJJ needs striking
Hapkido is a really good martial art, especially the combat focused ones, don't be retarded OP, Systema, Krav Memegra are all complete matial arts, you can scream JACK OF ALL TRADES MASTER OF NOOOOOOOOONE! all you want but welcome to real fighting, where if you can't deal with something you could actually die.
And for the record, I've seen TKD vs MT fights where the MT guy was better, a lot better, and TKD guy was getting whopped but one lucky TKD kick has ended the fight, and i've seen this multiple times.
In closing, OP is a retard because Shotocan Karate and TKD are basically the same fucking thing just with a different amount of kicking focus
>>743568
>Tiers of how aggressive <style>fags are on /asp/
>>746548
/thread
>>747561
Man, that guy is soft. as. fuark.
I wished the fight would go longer.
I find the concept of softness in CMA pretty neat. It's just that it takes a LOT of time an effort to become good, while ring MAs make you better right of the bat.
>>759260
They have seen too many Chinese martial arts movies about Chinese kids beating up the Japanese imperialists
>>759260
I like Aikido, but that's an unpopular opion here. /asp/ is skewed heavily toward arts that are ring sports, excpecially the ones used in mixed martial arts tournaments.
General understanding is that Aikido has no "aliveness" training and sparring. Sparring is understood to 1. select better techniques and sorting out useless ones; 2. training actual applications with an uncooperative (actually hostile) partner; and 3. checking who's the better overall fighter
What I disagree with /asp/ is that there can be a "best" MA. It's a matter of purpose.
If you go for the ring, soem things are best (depending on the rules).
If you go for self-defense other things are better (but they often don't teach the legal aspects of self-defense).
If you go for efectiveness in a street fight other things are better (street fight =/= self-defense, even if some things overlap)
You can also go for a MA for the looks (Capoeira, Kali, Shaolin off the top of my head)
You can go for fun (Capoeira is a blast, unparalleled by any other MA on a "social" level)
You can go health (my 70 yo friend who has arthrosis is a Tai Chi junkie, and it actually helps her with the pain)
You can go for cultural (even historical) reasons (you're an otaku and choose Ninjutsu; you're thai/korean nationalist and choose Muai Thai/TWD; you're into chinese culture in general and choose any traditional Kung Fu style over Sanda/Sanshou; could go on for hours)
You can go with any mix of the above, or something else entirely.
The ONLY honest thing you can do is ask yoursef what YOU want to do MAs for, and then choose based on that.
The McDojo aspect is completely unrelated to the above, and you have to try some different gyms before deciding (I started Hung Gar lately, and tried some 15 different places before deciding, since that's what I want to do for the next decades, 2 moths of research were worth the effort, I think).
If you like Aikido, just do with that. Do ask yourself if it matche swith WHY yo
>>759284
cont'd
If you like Aikido, just do with that. Do ask yourself if it matches with WHY you have chosen to do martial arts.
Also, it might be limitng to think of yourself as an "Aikidoka", or a "(kick)boxer" or any other "<style> practitionist". Think of yourself as a "martial artist, currently doing Aikido". Cross training with different disciplines/methds/mindsets will give you an incredible insight. Any legit gym will be cool with their students cross training.
Being an aikidoka is perfectly fine also, but just keep in mind that it's not the only way around.
tl;dr:
1. Chose your art(s) based on YOUR priorities
2. Be wary of McDojos, do your research
3. Think of yourself as a "martial artist"
>>759260
>why is it that everyone hates aikido?
Not everyone, but many people can't get over the fact that Aikido has rather bad training methods (the "aliveness thing"), is all about "reacting" (which is matter of fact a lot harder in an actual fight than acting yourself) and is very very very specific on the area of fighting.
To put it simple and stupid, Aikido is brilliant - on the theoretical side. It's techniques can actually work, but if you start training martial arts with Aikido you'll never be able to pull of any of the stuff you have learned, because you are missing a lot of basics (timing, distancing, creating openings, chaining techniques together)..
How do I know that? Because I started with Aikido before I switched to Judo and it was a real eye opener. A tenchinage is a wonderful Aikido technique, but it's a hell of a difficult technique when you look at all the tiny details you need to make it work, it's much easier to start with a (Judo) O Soto Gari and try to figure out how you can do it without the leg contact.
Aikido as a descendant of Daito-Ryu JuJutsu (even though some guys don't like to hear it) has it's reason to do the things like they do them, because When you are fighting with swords (and Aikido has Weapons, unlike Judo) you can't close in with your hip and against a dagger/tanto you can't load someone on your hip, but need to maintain control of the weapon arm and work from there.
As I said, theroretically it's not a bad system and it's possible to do a throw, lock or takedown with the arms alone, but it's much harder without using the hips and legs as fulcrum. So is it usefull to learn flying an F-16 before you can steer a paraglider, but never actually move the F-16 through the air but only sit in a simulator for years? Because "muscle power" is a big no no in Aikido..
I don't want to spoil your fun, enjoy Aikido, it has much to offer about body mechaniques. And I loved the sword forms. But since you asked for reasons..
>>759328
As someone who's done Aikido for four years and is a second kyu, your answer is perfect.
>>759448
Anon, why have you taken over wu's name?
