any wrestling bros? get in here!
freestyle/greco/submission ect ect all welcome, yes, even sumo.
what do you guys do for conditioning? how long does it take you?
>>721003
run 3 miles every morning
going live and shots for at least 1 hr each.
>>721003
Been doing no-gi BJJ(that counts as sub wrasslin right?) for about two years now. Everytime I face a wrestler I always get mauled. I managed to sneak in a submission here and there, but I never won any positioning.
Granted they've probably been wrestling their whole life while I started in my late 20s.
What are some basic wrestling drills/conditioning that I can do? Or actually what kind of drills do you wrestle do day in and day out?
>>721019
Yeah i count it as it, some people only count sambo as sub wrestling and even then their fucking nerds about it. Yeah, i know what you mean, its just the kind of base and strength you get from wrestling, you learn how to control your body more and apply pressure in the right way, if your in guard your best of to just stay busy and try wear them out but thats not likely, youre best option is to work on sweeps ect ect.
some basic drills are:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=i_-oUCpGOWU
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=AdU9T_YldUA
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=urPgYSUDIvE
id watch gary kolats videos. there very good.
in terms of conditioning:
1) sprints
2) lift
3) box jumps
4) skipping
5) ladder drills..
im in the same boat as you, started with no gi bjj then fell in love with wrestling. what i still do and helped me a ton is during bjj sparring, try get someone to not apply any submissions. basically just work on trying to get positional control while your partner does aswell, slowly build up the resistance. thatll help you get ' heavy ' in positions(side mount) ect ect. and get good at scrambling! (this might come in handy) https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=mnqDQAbU5N8
im not really that good myself as im new to all this, but its helped me a ton. might help you.
>>721022
That helps. Thanks a lot, man.
I'm 18 just finished my senior year over the summer and am going to miss that last year of wrestling. What can you join after highschool to stay involved in the sport for a small sum of money considering I make 8.25 a hour.
23 joining my colleges wrestling club this year. Never done freestyle/folkstyle before, but not a stranger to grappling. Been doing Judo for 2 yrs before this.
>who has more heart?
I'm betting there are heart roids somewhere
>>721139
Nice nice. itll deffiantly help you in the clinch. tell us how it goes if thread is still up.
>>721003
I always found this quote completely retarded. You think heart is going to win you the match when your opponent is stronger, smarter and more skilled than you
>>721920
Well usually only retards actually believe this. Its common sense to think the guy who is in better shape, has more training, and is more clever will win.
>>721920
Just a picture i found somewhere, was the only wrestling related one i liked that looked cool..
but no, no one thinks that..
>>721003
As a coach at the highschool level i make sure the wrestling room has no AC and with the intensity of our work outs, we wrestle off, roll, drill in at least 100 degrees.
With that when competitions happen in nice air conditioned gyms our conditioning is a tad up to snuff. Because my judo classes share the same mats. We have our kids wear those heavy gis to help build a sweat.
Pre season I have my athletes run at least 3 miles in the morning before school and 1 after. During its 3 and 3.
>>722750
Are you trying to get fired
>>722828
I have the full support of the principal and athletic director since they're both former wrestlers and they get what the training environment for grappling should be,
Going to other gyms, and dojos its rather common for my practice. So no i feel i know how to train, teach and coach my students.
>>722750
De-hydrating your athletes is not a good training strategy.
This is a non-sensible and non-sensicle practice that I see is very common.
>>722880
Did i say I dehydrate them or deny them water breaks? I didn't. Compare to a lot of my contemporaries and because of my judo background I am not the biggest into weight cutting. However in terms of in room environments. I make my wrestling room hellish and uncomfortable to push my athletes. I've been doing judo and wrestling for quite some time and I can gauge when an athlete is in over their head. But, i want to breed and instill into them the will power to overcome and practice their techniques even in the most uncomfortable conditions.
This is why and how wrestlers will continuously come at a person and play such a strong pressure game, this is why so many wrestlers are able to cross over into no holds bar'd rulesets because you have them train in such uncomfortable conditions.
>>722882
Excessive heat dehydrates athletes and creates an unfavorable environment for learning and skill acquisition. Wrestling is plenty uncomfortable on its own. You don't need to make it a contest.
>>722889
I am sorry but I have to disagree, you do have to make it a contest, you do have to push them to focus. I give them plenty of time and chances to cool down and drink water, and during instruction they're not at their hottest.
The way the classes are set up are
*warm up with running and various sprints around the room, stretching
*pace wrestle and or knee wrestling
*instruction, working on shots or tilts, teaching them new information and technique.Followed with uchi komis (reps)
*Going live (this is where the room is at its hottest)
*Running again.
So the way my classes are structured students are able to acquire and study their skills through uchi komis/reps because they're not at their most tired or drain.
I feel like I am explaining myself i like to hear how you teach and instruct. Not being disrespectful just curious since we are having this dialogue. I've been coaching for 4 years. Been practicing for 19. So i'm rather confident in my teaching, coaching and training methods.
>>722892
While its on my mind looking at my webm. Craddles and turks are still not all to common in MMA or sub wrestling due to more of BJJ's influence but its nice watching them in action, using them to scramble, or set a sub and or GnP is underutilized.
Turks and most of their variants lead great openings to arm triangles/kata gatame. Where as going for cradles and people's lack of defense against them (or rather people's fear of the traditional RNC with hooks ) lead great openings for ground and pound and just scrambling to side control without worrying about passing/literally by passing your opponent's guard work.
Phil Davis might not be the most exciting however he was a great case study and person to emulate if you want to get good at craddling.
>>722896
>>722892
>I've been coaching for 4 years. Been practicing for 19. So i'm rather confident in my teaching, coaching and training methods.
You should be confident after you've been educated in psychology, physiology, anatomy, biomechanics, and kinesiology.
It's reasonable to be confident in yourself as an athlete judging by the supposed 19 years of training, though.
>>722902
Again I am being as respectful as I can I feel a bit disrespected (i get its 4chan, so that's out the window with trolls trolling trolls, but you know I like to feel i've made /asp/ a better place with my commentary, breakdown, and gifs/webms), and although I do not have my bachelors in that (math actually with an emphasis on education)
Again, what do you do differently as a coach and trainer? I've had plenty of mat time to know what works and what works and that's because of my martial art experience in wrestling and judo.
So yes you're correct I don't have the science to back me, however I do have have the experience and practice with my training and involvement with this craft.
>>722905
I wasn't originally a part of the conversation, just offering my two cents.
One could have 50 years of experience with solving mathematical equations, yet still be unaware of relatively simple mathematical principles.
>>722902
reflecting on what you're saying I do feel as a shodan in judo i have a decent understanding on biomechanics how the human body moves and how to generate the most efficient way to create kuzshi/off balance, spacing, and how people react to shime waza/choke holds/ submissions/Kansetsu-waza.
So for my lack of formal training and degree in those fields of science I grasp the way the human body moves and reacts. Looking at my training and my peers/other black belts from other disciplines. There's some irony or rather some crossover where getting a "black belt" is like getting a university degree. I don't always agree with titles, but you see it with the Brazilians Saulo Ribeiro and others, calling themselves Prof, and for all the cuteness of the title, achieving that rank helps you understand the depth and mechincis of our craft.
>>722907
>helps you understand the depth and mechincis of our craft.
To an extent, varying widely depending on the person.
>>722906
I get that metaphor but i can't completly agree to it, I mean the way I see what you're saying. You're saying that being so focused on the meta game or higher level concepts you lose focus on the basics and core principles that brought them their. In my mind's eye the best beta players in grappling wither its judo or wrestling (especially wrestling) the rule sets and moves have existed for decades that the basic moves will work on the international level and on the beginner level. Which is why you still see hip tosses/ogoshi has the go to for Olympians or white belts, or how a simple double and cradle still work and win for wrestlers.
I will concede the fear where some traditionalist get worried about rule changes and where people game or nickle and dime said rule changes and the meta game dicates the training. No knock to TKD, but people do cite that as a huge example where the meta game became so high, the art itself is criticized for being kick slapping or kick patty cake.
But i think high level gyms, trainers and athletes all have a core concept to their success and that is focusing on fundamentals, understanding the concepts the biomechanics, the set ups and thinking behind them and using that to such a high level of master to win even high level/meta game matches
>>722909
>best beta players
typo meant best meta players.
Utsurio goshi is this technique, floating hip, a lot of people think it doesn't work unless its in kata context. At its core its applying ogoshi/hip throw (the basic throw white belts learn) and applies it in a meta context , understanding how the counter grip works and using their timing to apply the throw as a counter.
>>722908
Perhaps. however if you get a chance to meet a high level grappler/black belt judoka BJJ/samboist. There is a certain level of thinking, methodical breakdown that is in all. You can be cynical and say that black belts as a rank and whole aren't what they use to be. But i feel as someone who's trained so hard for so long and been blessed to have good coaches and teachers to instill that kind of methodical and technical know how, that it is required for any person to say they're black belt have the depth and mechanics of their craft.
>>722907
A black belt is more like a proof of bare basic knowledge.
It's possible for a black belt to have understanding along with the knowledge, but there's no proof of understanding provided with the black belt.
>>722912
That's one way to look at it. For me and my coaches however this is where teaching and coaching come in. Its not officially required for judo but before my teacher hands out a black belt you have to display more then just bare basic knowledge, but rather deeper understanding of concepts and principles (specially your tokui waza/specialty technique) and with that you need to teach and coach those concepts. Perhaps its not the norm and i can concede that however for my upbringing and because of my upbringing its what a "real" black belt should have.
>>722892
not him, but I will never understand why wrestlers and judokas turn the practice into a cross fit trainning session.
nobody absorbs technique while tired as fuck and barely able to stand. I have seem one of the best judokas on our team puking from exhaustion and being proud as fuck of it, only to see him getting rekt by a bjj guy, and in bjj we are pretty relaxed most of the time.
>>722892
>I feel like I am explaining myself i like to hear how you teach and instruct. Not being disrespectful just curious since we are having this dialogue.
Bjj teacher.
It's nice to see how others are doing things. The way you teach depends on who you're teaching to. I had 2 totally different classes, regarding to demographics. One were late teens to adults up to 50 from blue to black (adults over 35 were in good shape) and the other was teens and oldies all white belts (15 to late 20 and 50 to 74). The former class was 3 times a week the later was only once a week, more like an intro for people doing other m. a. that wanted to try bjj.
You can't teach them the same techniques. With the advanced you can get hellish warm-up and do a lot of techniques then go straight to randori (going live). With the beginners, you have to drill a lot more and do some intro/conditioning warm-up where you built the technique you're going to drill step by step. So they can pick it up faster since beginers don't get uchikomi (repetitions) very fast or well enough.
I'm going to try your set-up.
Why in the name of fuck does the UK not have any proper olympic wrestling? I would love to have done this sport so much. The closest I can find in terms of genuineness and similar ethics is boxing but it's not the same :(.
Can we follow up on OPs post? I'd like to hear how people train/condition besides technique drills and off the mat. Like for strength training? Weights or bodyweight? And cardio/endurance? How do you keep in shape when youre off season?
I've been using a bodyweight program for strength but i feel slow and sluggish because i dont do shit for cardio, any routines that help with speed?
>>723008
this
>>722882
since your a coach, if you dont mind me asking. what is the best 20-30 mins conditioning routine? would like to do a small routine to push the pace 2-3 times a week leading up to a comp.
>>722892
also.. fucking love serry, hes a big favourite over here. nice guy. shame hes as old as he is.
>>722998
Im OP , irish here. yeah, its similar over here. fuck all doing it, about 10 per weight class. if lucky. Best is to learn wrestling in an mma gym, check out this dho. http://www.britishwrestling.org/events.asp?section=27 ..
>>723046
There are options but I would rather focus just on wrestling at a proper club like they have in the States rather than only partially focusing on it like they do with MMA.
>>723058
Yeah i get you, i started of with wrestling to help mma in a mma club, then wrestling on its own. what age you? chances are you can still compete.
What do you guys think about Sambo ?
>>723075
I'm 21 now. I live in Wales though. I think there's only one wrestling place in the whole country.
>>723094
There's nowhere to train. Maybe when I can move to a new area like London I'll have a gym near me
For conditioning I run 3 miles every night, preferably before I go to train. I get in 3 sets of 200 jump ropes when I get home and I'm gonna start going for a little extra tonight. Recently I've started doing bear crawls which are great for a full body conditioning, similar to a swimming exercise. For general power/explosiveness I've been doing stuff like jumping barbell squats, burpees, and kettlebell snatches. All if that in accordance with my actual gym training has been going great. I'm out of high school so I've been training at a club for some time, but I may be heading off to a college team soon. Also, what does /asp/ think of my new singlet? Trying it out in a few weeks.
>>723113
How the fuck do you find the time and energy?
>>723116
I really don't know. I'm lucky to come from a family of gifted athletes. My grandfather was some great catch wrestling coach in Europe and one of his sons was an All-American wrestler. My dad and his brother both played college football and their cousin was an all-american wrestler too. I've always been gifted with natural athleticism. As for time, I work 6 am to 2 pm so a good part of my afternoon is free. I usually come home and take like an hour long power nap before going at it again.
>>722828
>Are you trying to get fired
That's how my high school wrestling program was for the entire four years.
In fact the heaters were usually on, and we had the biggest wrestling room in the county. And my coaches were actually more strict than he is, because we were only allowed water two or three times a practice.
And he's right, it helps with conditioning.
>>723126
I do worry about over training a lot because it's something I've experienced in the past and because I know I can't go like this forever. I've gotten smart about training though and I know when to take it easy.
>>722892
>*warm up with running and various sprints around the room, stretching
>*pace wrestle and or knee wrestling
>*instruction, working on shots or tilts, teaching them new information and technique.Followed with uchi komis (reps)
>*Going live (this is where the room is at its hottest)
>*Running again.
This was essentially how my practices went.
But as we got into the season (after about 3 weeks) live wrestling took over more and more practice because by then we'd figured out what take downs we liked and worked for us, and what control, break downs, and pinning combinations we liked and worked for us.
But our coaches leaned really heavy towards single, chop 2 on 1, and half.
Also our conditioning was really heavy, so we would do our warm up running and conditioning outside and then wrestle with the heaters on inside.
And we had the best conditioning of any other athletic program at our school, pretty much no one could keep up with the combination of conditioning and wrestling (we had a few off season kids come out like football players, and unless they wrestled+football already they would drop after the first few days).
>>723119
Do you ever get time for other stuff?
>>722905
>but you know I like to feel i've made /asp/ a better place with my commentary, breakdown, and gifs/webms),
It's really not worth it.
This place is terrible for any real discussion of combat sports or martial arts because of the shit posting and trolling.
>>722906
>One could have 50 years of experience with solving mathematical equations, yet still be unaware of relatively simple mathematical principles.
That's not how math works.
You aren't going to be doing partial differential equations and not know order of operations or how to multiply fractions.
>>723134
Very little to myself during the week. My week ends are pretty open since I don't usually have work and we only have open-mat morning sessions. That's when I try to spend time with my gf and family.
>>723139
Ah, that's not too bad then. How do you think going to college will affect you?
I'm 19 and I've never done any sport IML, I'll start boxing coming September and plan to do a grappling discipline with it, but I don't know which of Judo or Wrestling is better especially for a total beginner like me.
I have to say that I prefer takedown over throws and I'm more attracted in greco.
>>723198
Where you from, friend?
>>723137
You're right.
But to be able to solve "high level" mathematical equations you have to be aware of simple mathematical principles.
To teach basic arithmetics is a total different beast.
Even if you should know about rings and sets to teach addition to children, It doesn't mean you're going to explain it to them...
>>723279
>To teach basic arithmetics is a total different beast.
Yes. Great fighters don't necessarily make great trainers and great trainers don't necessarily have to be great fighters.
But that's not what you argued. You were arguing that because he's able to compete at a high level or is at a high enough level that he can worry about different aspects of wrestling than just the basics, that he somehow might not know or be able to perform the basics.
That's different from saying he might be a bad coach.
What he's doing is SOP for every wrestling program I've seen at the high school level. The programs I know of at the college level were only different because it was expected that you did conditioning on your own time.
>>723375
SOP?
Because of relocating problems with my current gym i wrestle at. It will only be on 1x a week. maybe 2. what the fuck do i do? i have 1-2 wrestling partners jsut no where to wrestle outside of practise. there is no clubs near btw.
>>722928
i'm not the biggest tradtional proponent.however I feel that is what budo/judo is and specially martial arts. Its will power and obtaining will power. Being able to perform your moves in the most uncomfortable environment and being able to consistantly impose your will and mind on your opponent.over coming anything for the will to suceed. Like>>723375
mentions what i practice is done on a global level at all high levels of grappling. and i am not even trying to imply my highschool wrestling team or non profit judo dojo are the best high profile gyms/dojos.
>>722978
Nice read, what rank are you?
You have to keep in mind I'm a public school teacher/coach and I have all levels of wrestlers on my squad. From guys who have been training since they were in 1st grade to HS freshman who have never had any physical activity. and its my job to get all of them combat ready/mat ready in a season.
I do split the class up and go over different things with the various exp gaps, however there is a lot of common bare bone basics that all levels have to train.
>>723043
In terms of 20 to 30 mins. It depends. I have my guys do their reps staggered. So for example they would do 10 shots a piece, then before they switch 10 push ups or burpees. Then 11 shots, with 11push ups or burpees.
Go all the way up to 20.
Then we do standing long jumps or suicides, various running drills to work on explosion or explosive speed. Shark bait/going live,
Then ending the last 15 min with various running speed(sprinting to jogging)
>>723385
Standard Operating Procedure
>>724000
Thank you. what would you think of this?
>Sprints (100m)- rest 10 seconds x 5
>Jump rope - 2mins medium intensity x 3
>Jump rose fast as possible 45 seconds , rest for 15 seconds x 5
>sprint on spot and sprawl x 10
>Burpess till failure fast as possible x 3
>Sprints 100m - rest 10 seconds x 5
all i have to work with. was going to do around twice a week. have training and lifting the other days.
>>723219
>>724135
You'll probably find judo or Greco around you, since you're a frog. Do either one.
>>723991
>what rank are you?
Black belt in bjj went to green belt in judo. Season is starting again in judo here, so I'm going back to it.
why wrestler girls have such nice asses
>>724497
My end goal is to be suffocated to death by a wrestler chic's ass
>>724498
i don't know man, erotic wrestling looks hot but this girls are pros
they can get you in a spladle and make you suck your own dick
>>724505
>dominant qtpi pin you with a german suplex and make you suck your own dick while pounding your boipussy with a giant dildo making you her personal little sissy butt-slut
And you're still hesitating.
>>724505
>spladle
>german suplex
it's that even possible for a girl to put a guy into a spladle or a suplex?
>>724533
>>722892
I meant you don't need to make how difficult your training of your athletes is a contest.
For instance, well not only do I crank up the heat to 100+ but I also make them wear sweat suits!
any other stand up grappler fucking sick of guard pulling/jumping?
>>724556
learn to pass faggot
>>724556
There're these things we do in striking called "blocking" and "dodging".
Maybe those things could help with your combat system.
This may not be allowed, but we also have this thing called the "push".
>>724564
>blocking a grappler
tapkak
>>724572
Just like every fighting game ever, grappling beats blocking.
>>724535
this is staged
>>724556
Yeah, but I haven't been doing BJJ recently so I haven't dealt with it. You'd be surprised how many guys get scared in BJJ if they know you've even had a modicum of a background in wresting or judo.
>>724556
I fucking hate it. This is one of the things that kill Jiu-jitsu. Soon sport bjj will be as useful as ijf judo.
>>724557
When I started bjj, I you were buttscooting, the opponent could ask you to stand up to start the fight. Stomps were allowed. One of my opponent litterally walked on my face in my first comp. If it was still allowed, I doubt guard pull would even exist.
>>724606
It doesn't excuse butt scooping.
>>724537
>For instance, well not only do I crank up the heat to 100+ but I also make them wear sweat suits!
Making a wrestling room hot and making it hot and making wrestlers wear sweats or plastics are not the same thing, and the latter is dumb as fuck.
It's not about dehydrating the athletes, it's about putting them in adverse conditions that will be tougher than the actual fight.
That's part of the conditioning.
>we can't train in the Philippines or Thailand where it's steamy and hot, but we can crank up the thermostat and train even though we we'll be competing on a nice air conditioned room
Ex-D1 wrestler here. Wrestling just was not mixing well with my classwork and even with extra help i was flunking, so now im focusing on school(math) and planning on transitioning to bjj, ill take any questions if u want
>>724655
Can you utilize foot sweeps in folk?
>>724659
definetly, but it has to be off of a chain. most skilled wreslters will see a sweep coming from a mile away so the best way to hit it is by drawing them into you where they have either bad balance or no visibility of their feet. I would do a snap down so that when they react i could step in to sweep, or a underhook is great
>>724662
what do you mean by off a chain?
>>724662
Alright cool. I've got to work on the timing for my sweep anyway but I'll play with it
>>724612
>This is one of the things that kill Jiu-jitsu.
they can sub a stand up grappler without being smashed to the ground. i say it is pretty effective
>>724672
On a mat, I guess. But BJJ is touted as the ultimate self defense style, but it ignores standup entirely.
>>724675
>But BJJ is touted as the ultimate self defense style
>tfw I thought people were joking about that
>tfw people actually think that BJJ is the ultimate self defense style
>>724683
People are gullible but at least they're better off than the tma and grab mongo crowd
Can someone explain to a Boxer just how someone can submit someone else from guard? What can you do from guard?
>>724731
from inside their guard. as in you're on top
or you mean bottom playing with guard?
>>724731
A triangle is one example.
>have them in guard
>create space so that you can get one leg over their shoulder
>cross this leg with thigh on their neck and calf across their back
>lock this leg's ankle into the other leg's knee
>tighten until they tap or pass out
>>724731
The purpose on the guard is do lower the ability of the top player to strike effectively, controlling his hips with the legs at ultra short range.
Even the guard has different ranges for the differents strikes from the top players:
punches-elbows-shoulders-headbutt-(bite).
>What can you do from guard?
From the guard, if you open it - you then lose the control of your opponent hips- you can kick or push your opponent away.
You can apply locks from the guard.
You can sweep your opponent to end up in a more advantageous position to strike, apply locks and strangulations or get up and leave.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DX2kaDfT0Mo&t=309s
>>724731
armlock
kimura
triangle
omoplata
sweep
those are the most commom i'd say
>>724728
Wrestling was used by people in ye olde sword slinging days to defend themselves on the field of battle. Wrestling is most certainly a good art for self defense. It keeps you on top, provided that your opponent isn't a bigger and better wrestler than you.
>>725045
fuck dude i will use that shit
>>725045
This was beautiful
>>725109
he dragged the guy by the arm and stopped him recovering his balance by blocking his leg with his arm
do you even grapple?
>>725045
Damn im gonna try this next time during practice.
>>724556
Im usually not one for banning moves, but jump guard is definitely one that should be considered.
>>725040
Medieval people didnt use wrestling wtf.
>>723113
>jumping barbell squats
you are going to fuck up your back. Regular squats, stance drills for time, throwing dummies etc. are all much better for you than that hack exercise.
>>725226
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Ringen
https://en.m.wikipedia.org/wiki/Wrestling_history
Clearly this was written by a secret society dedicated to propagandizing wrestling
>>725226
>Medieval people didnt use wrestling wtf.
You're a fucking idiot.
what weight does everyone wrestle here?
138 for bigger comps.. 152 for smaller local comps
>>725318
>How was I supposed to know about this obscure fighting style?
Fucking Google?
>They never mentioned this in my western civ class when they talked about how Knights and Swordsman fought.
Because it was probably a survey class.
Wrestling is all about technique. Training year round with heaters on is great way to practice inadequate technique that may actually cause wrestlers to take steps back in their sport instead of forwards. Drill hard and smart, not inadequately because of being overheated.
as far as folkstyle goes, opinions on riding time in college?
>>725318
Wrestling has existed since the dawn of time you fucking twonk
>>725318
Almost every culture on this planet throughout the history of mankind has used wrestling as a form of combat.
>do folk in highschool
>get into greco
>do bjj after
>literally never pull guard just wind up throwing them
>get kicked out of bjj
i literally took standing grappling to the point that all i did in bjj was stop their guard lol
anyone else do this? suplex masterrace reporting in
>Be wrestler
>Friend invites me to train with his new grappling team
>Judo guys ask me to wear a gi because they are so used to pulling your clothes that they cant throw me
>BJJ guys always want to start on the knees
Fucking Dan Severn, he had the chance to show the world that wrestling > all other grappling arts but he got choked
>>726488
>>get kicked out of bjj
why
>>726500
>he got choked
but that proved something
>>726500
Why the fuck do you think you're hot shit because guys in judo, a sport that not only uses a fucking gi but REQUIRES it ask you to wear a gi? I know so many wrestlers turned judoka who don't give a flying fuck about that, pussy
>>726504
Im surprised that he didnt give his back, happened to me a lot at the beginning
>>726507
Because im open to get choked on the floor with their newaza/bjj shit but they are not open to fight in a different way, grappling tournaments dont use gi. Also, im not complaining about all the judocas, only the ones on the academy, calm down bitch.
>Remimder that the Judo Federation forbids to compete in another sport because wrestlers/bjj guys were going to the tournaments to kick their ass. Judo is becoming the new TKD
>>726511
Why should judo have to adjust to you? And for the record, no judoka was "getting his ass kicked." The IJF pulled their bullshit because no one wanted to see two guys hunched over for 20 minutes grabbing at each other's sleeves until one guy tries an ankle pick while the other sprawls, and then they both get stood up. People wanted throws. It's complete shit and a lot of great techniques got abandoned, but don't get delusional about what really happened.
>>726512
>>726502
thats mainly why i was pissed. it was the gym i was going to not just bjj in general that i was confused about
they were just buttblasted i turned everything into a standing match instead of being on my knees, i mean hell their best student was a fucking wrestler and i went toe to toe on everything with him except actual submissions because ya know, wrestler
>>726514
>i turned everything into a standing match
so you were not taking them down? were you not trying to pass guard? you did something fucking retarded i'm sure
>>726512
Im 1.83 and 170 am skinny if that matters to you, but the point is that they couldnt throw me because i was not wearing a gi.
>>726513
We werent practicing judo, we were doing grappling thats why they have to adjust. Sorry if it triggers you that Judo is becoming the new TKD but dont put the blame on me.
>>726520
i was doing all throws and takedowns they got pissed because i could get out of guard to do my wrasslin so easily
>>726534
you could get out of the guard and then try pass it right?
>>726599
Not the guy you're responding to, but you realize "passing the guard" is a BJJ invention, right? Wrestlers can pin a guy from between his legs just fine, and catch wrestlers can submit from the guard by attacking the legs.
Being on top and staying off your back are far more valuable than the BJJ positional heirarchy IMO. Watch modern MMA to see what I'm talking about. Plenty of guys "give up their back" and end up getting to their feet, and plenty of guys "recover guard" and get KOed by strikes because all they've changed is the relative position of their legs and their opponent's body. Don't get me wrong, BJJ works great against unskilled opponents, but a good wrestler who knows subs and sub defense will always have stronger fundamentals and be a better fighter overall.
>>726634
passing the guard is not a "bjj invention". Its as old as Jujutsu itself.
>>726634
I will not start that autistic discussion again. if you don't want to pass guard because you think you can win in a MMA fight just do MMA and don't pass the guard jesus fucking christ. do you see me going to wrestling class, punching people in the face and choking them when they give me their backs? no right? then just pass guard for fuck sake and fuck off with your 1 in a thousand subs inside the guard against scrubs
>>726634
>wrestlers can pin a guy from being between his legs just fine
Yeah that's wrestling.
I wrestled all through HS and it never made sense to me how someone could ''win'' in a real life situation just by putting my shoulders on the mat.
I had seen BJJ and GJJ videos, so I knew even with your shoulders on the mat, you could still submit an opponent on your back.
That being said, I dont think most wrestlers (In a grappling match, mind you) would care to pass guard rather than just stacking.
Now in an MMA fight, sure, striking and NOT going to the ground in the first place is preferable, but ground/clinch game is still unbelievably important, which is why all MMA fighters train ground game
![1378116563789[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/AtpxITy.png "1378116563789[1].png")
>>727129
>BJJ and GJJ
>>727177
I'm pretty sure I grapple with this guy
>>727119
>and fuck off with your 1 in a thousand subs inside the guard against scrubs
Heel hooks are 1 in a thousand? lmao
>>724676
I'm a fan of the ADCC rule where pulling guard is -1 point.
is there a place to train real mongolian wrestling (outside Mongolia) ?
>>727339
hahahahaha
>>727341
Inner Mongolia, China would be your best bet.
Other than that, if your country/city has a large enough Mongolian community, they probably organize a Naadam festival each summer (end of first week/start of second week of July usually), which traditionally includes wrestling. Ask there.
>>727193
I'd like it more: if you're pulling guard / butt scouting and you don't get your opponent to the ground, 2 points for the opponent.
To prevent slams and stop with the air submission madness :Slam is still an illegal move, but if you get pulled off the ground higher than waist: 5 seconds, then 4 points to the one lifting. If the one lifting goes down, has the one attacking touch the ground and lift the one attacking back up higher than belly in a upright standing position in less than 10 seconds while the one lifted hasn't let the one on feet : the on lifting declared winner.
If the one lifted release his grip and ends up on the ground: 3 additional point for the one that lifted.
The meaning is: if you try to finish your opponent, and he lifts you once and get back up, this means your attack is not efficient while you could have been slammed, wich most of the time ends up with a ko or tko (there are of course exceptions, some have sustained a slam and submitted their opponent).
>>727378
awesome breakfall. that's why guard slams should be allowed.
>>727378
>this means your attack is not efficient while you could have been slammed,
> (there are of course exceptions
except that's not an exception because that's not rare at all
just let people slam and count it as a throw, end of story.
but you know what, you should also stop bitching and saying "bjj is not martial with the guard pulling or lifting during submission" because it's not like you are not open to a tons of other shit in many other different combat sports due the rule set.
aka either learn how to pass guard or just do MMA and stop bitching
>>727382
>>727384
>awesome breakfall. that's why guard slams should be allowed.
>Can you even breakfall out of a good guard slam most of the time? I'm also impressed by that gif but I feel like that isn't common
The slam after that almost KO'd Glover. He was able to fight out that match, but basically lost then and there.
Didn't result in injury, however, so as long as there's no spiking, slams aren't horrible killers by definition. They do change things.
>>727391
>The slam after that almost KO'd Glover. He was able to fight out that match, but basically lost then and there.
sauce
>>727378
>:Slam is still an illegal move
might as well ban haraigoshi where you land on top of your opponent
>>727393
There's a bit of a difference between the two
>>727392
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuGzM8OJDrU
Shortly after the 9:00 mark. I was wrong, it's actually the same slam as in the gif that was posted.
>>727393
Slam is lifting opponent from the groung while he s holding you tight and crushing him to the ground... i.e. daki age and jumping on your back with one turtling you.
Throws are ok though
>aka either learn how to pass guard or just do MMA and stop bitching.
Before, when knees, feet, hand and elbows were authorized to push face, head and neck, buttscooping was almost inexistent. You could litterally walk all over a buttscooper. When pushing the face of an opponent with lower limb was forbidden, buttscooping became much more prevalent.
>But you know what, you should also stop bitching and saying "bjj is not martial with the guard pulling or lifting during submission" because it's not like you are not open to a tons of other shit in many other different combat sports due the rule set.
You can't let slam be a regular throw when you allow standing keylocks. Stupid punks would slam while using keylocks. this would end up in way too many broken limbs. All main grappling sports (judo, sambo, wrestling, bjj...) forbid the combinations of the 2.
>>727386
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UuGzM8OJDrU
He's actually so dazed and phased for a few seconds that a referee could have stopped it in a MMA bout. had we been under Nsca rules.
Nobody want a sport where you get such concussion and broken limbs. (actually I secretly do, but I'm not to be taken in account at this point).
true, it doesn't end up with one unable to fight. But I think - I may be wrong - it is far more dangerous than heel hook and knee reaping.
What shoes should I get for the upcoming season lads?
>inb4 matflexs
>inb4 Inflicts
>>727397
>that gay backwards moving shit like they are sharing a double ended dildo
jesus fucking christ now I know why you americans bitch about bjj hahahaha
thank god i've never seem that bullshit flying in brazil and i hope i never will
>>727425
>2015
>not unironically playing donkey guard
>not inverting every chance you can
>taking adcc seriously
you should just kill yourself.
Can anyone help me with my defense? When I stuff a shot, I sprawl and then get an underhook. From there, I'm sort of confused on what to be looking for. Should I just hard sprawl and try and take the back or should I stop trying to get an underhook and get a whizzer instead when I defend? It's hard to explain all of this shit without showing it but I'd appreciate any help on stuffing the shot and countering
>>727932
>When I stuff a shot, I sprawl and then get an underhook. From there, I'm sort of confused on what to be looking for.
You can look for an arm drag to help you get around to take the back and then break him down with chop 2 on 1, spiral ride etc.
Really it just depends on what your goal is.
First should be to get your 2 for the takedown, so getting behind is the best thing to do.
But if you want to try for a pinning combo you can do what my coach called "the mustang":
Get a front head lock after sprawling and stuffing the shot, use your free arm that is not in the front head lock to get an under hook and drive your hand through onto his back (this should look like you're getting an arm bar but from the front), and then drive towards the other side so you end up in a reverse half.
It's a million dollar move, but it can work on a good wrestler; you just have to wait until at least the end of the second period or until you can feel him starting to get gassed. You can either do it from defending the shot, or you can do it from an optional start in referee position; but you have to be quick to get around front and get it locked in before the other guy can go for the stand up.
>>727932
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=3G_1BGnLerg
this one is pretty cool
>>727955
Here are some videos about what I was talking about:
Here is the chop,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_NllIK3Lncg
the tilt is optional.
You can do it to try and get quick back points, but you don't want to risk it if the other guy is a good wrestler.
Here's the spiral ride,
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=YBWIUafVICI
It works great if you're strong, and even better if both you and the other guy are big (215 or 285).
You can use it at any weight but those two weight classes were my only experience and I didn't see too many lighter guys go for it.
Waist Lace is a good one too.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=LyAeJh2WiS0
Most people will talk about it as a defense against a stand up but you can use it as a take down too. What you'll have to watch out for though is the switch; if you can't hold onto the ankle and drive you're setting up the switch for the guy on bottom.
I can't find a good video of "The Mustang". I would record a demo for you if I could.
>>727968
>but you can use it as a take down too.
Oops, meant "break down" not take down.
>>725045
cheeky move
>>724675
BJJ fag here
BJJ puts a lot on emphasis on self defense and in serious gyms you're encouraged to practice both gi and no gi
in no gi many schools dont follow the IBJJF rules so the main focus in on basic takedowns and anckle/leg locks which are bread for self defense
only an idiot would claim BJJ is the ultimate self defense style though
i mean it misses striking entirely, how the fuck could it be the ultimate self defense style?
>>727932
>I sprawl and then get an underhook
push your hips towards him and Ototo Gari his ass
>>728079
I feel like I'd rather do that with a collar tie and an overhook, plus the guy in driving into my legs so I don't want to give him that opportunity to reshoot
>>728082
take the back or, if your guard isn't shit, put him inside it going for a guillotine. or standing guillotine.
>>728106
This is for wrestling not BJJ
>>721012
Thats a really good rage face
[spoiler]how do you lads not get hard ons? no homo but I don't think I couldn't stop it [/spoiler]
>>729029
By not being a faggot.
>>729042
;_;
>>722750
You can't have high school kids in more than 70- 80 degrees in the wrestling room bro.
>>724757
What is that sub called?
>>729408
Not sure where you get your information but again as a coach and been doing wrestling for over a decade its the norm to have higher temps in the wrestling room.
>>729417
Its a variant of ude gatame/elbow crusher arm lock. the gif you highlight is shown from guard. you can do it from a lot of scrambles.
For example scrambling and savaging a rolling juji/from turtle.
>>729438
you can also perform ude gatame from standing. The opening is usually done from stiff arm and if someone is grabbing you with a high collar grip.
>>729440
look aikido working.
>>729140
whats this move call?
>>729511
Probably one of the only few moves from aikido that actually do work.
>>730559
Most of them work, you just have to train them correctly, which aikido doesn't. Nikkyo is fucking savage when done correctly, and there are openings whenever your opponent puts their hand on you for the most part.
>>729029
IF your not a faggot, which you seem like. Could be the friction from your pee pee and underwear. wear compressional pants underneat your shorts. or change briefs(the brand of them)
>>729408
>>722750
Our high school coach left the heater on for a week that we had off and when we came back, we had practice and someone put a thermometer in there and it read 112℉. First preseason practice was today and the heater sparked, started smoking and caught fire. We ran sprints, bleachers, and hills the whole time, and out hill has about a 65° slope. Buddy carries and wheelbarrows are killer on that thing
>>730632
Also we get 1 5 minute water break throughout the 2 hour 15 minute practice
>>730722
>that sounds like child abuse. I'd be piss if any coach or teacher did that to me at my school.
It sounds like you're a bitch.
Not that anon, I've been out of high school for ten years, but that was normal wrestling practice for me, five days a week (we had practices over breaks too, just not every day), 3-4 hours a day.
>>726357
182/170 here
Current HS Wrestler here. My coach loves 2 a days. 6 am, we're doing 45 minutes of sprints before class. Make it through the day. 3pm we're all dressed out running and doing agilities. Next is high speed drilling and technique. High speed drilling will definitely make you break a sweat in the South Georgia heat. After that, he separates us into groups of 3-4 and we wrestle top bottom out. Keep in mind, my coach is a 42 year old man that had shoulder surgery multiple knee surgeries. He always runs with us and is ahead of the group most of the time. He also is a fucking beast on the mat. I can barely pin him now. But we get out around 7 pm most of the time. Wrestling is in my family's blood I think, my dad a state champ and my brother a state champ.
>>730595
>most of them work
No they don't.
>>726357
I wrestled 215 for one year and then 285 for three.
>>730922
Yes they do. Here's nikkyo being used in competition:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bFPI15FLn38
And here's Keenan Cornelius showing applications of kote gaeshi, nikkyo, and an ikkyo-ish transition to a back take or omoplata, all from standing:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=uidHY-HcY9M
And as far as my own personal experience goes, I used to specialize in waki gatame (pic related) which you can hit from a ton of different standing clinch positions, gi or no-gi.
Don't shit on things you don't know about. Like I said earlier, the moves themselves are legit, they're just trained too compliantly by most people. It's understandable though, rotating wrist locks are heel hook tier dangerous and can fuck up your wrist for a long time, so I get why people who train casually wouldn't want to spar with them.
>>731051
Not to mention this infamous match in the 1985 World Judo Championships
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7sEFA0SuO_0
A waki-gatame has to be done in a standing position first and then brought to the ground, but Cho's was illegal and the decision was given to him because the local Korean crowd got ugly.
>>730922
Not that same anon, but Aikida can work in a real fight, if its taught properly. The thing is, majority of aikido(mostly outside Japan) is nothing more than mcdojo crap. Submissions and disamring techniques do work, but it must be taught correctly along side full sparring. No compliant bs.
>>731058
I see your waki gatame and raise you a waki gatame/uchi mata combination throw.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=EuA5O6rYxOc
It's a shame it's near impossible to train it safely; the combination of an armbar and a leg sweep seems ridiculously effective.
>>731064
Yeah I've seen that footage before.
For self-defense, it's a great move but too dangerous for sport.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Q_718dOW09k
Aoki was a dickwad for doing this. Nobody wants to see that in a match.
anyone who crosstrains wrestling and judo could tell me the benefits of it? I trained 1 and a half year of judo and bjj, i'm considering spending 1 year in a different art, but i'm divided between wrestling and a striking art.
>>731084
The advantage to wrestling (if you're talking Greco/Free/Folkstyle) is that you will learn a grappling game that can transition really easily to any other grappling system.
You'll learn take downs, controlling pinning combinations, proper sprawling, how to properly shoot not that garbage "shot" that a lot of guys who never wrestled do when they just reach down and try to do a double (there is a very specific shot that is like this, but it's not done lazily and has a specific application, and it's a single not a double), you'll also learn to be aggressive when it comes to grappling and be able to better apply pressure to the other guy standing or on the ground.
The exception to the shooting is Greco because it's all upper body attacks.
>>731075
Dude also intentionally broke some guy's arm via kimura
He's fucked in the head
>>731110
I thought wrestling had hip and shoulder throws that were pretty much the same that exist in judo
>>731172
To a certain degree. there general princples of those techniques are found, of course people focus on the variants that have mutant or were force to mutant cause of the rule differences.
So you are correct that the basic premise of ogoshi/hip toss and seoi nage.shoulder throw are found and crossed over from each style, but when you study them and look at them closer there are variants that make them slightly different from the other's style.
Asking which one to study is just preference, learning both if you can, or whatever feels good.
>>731075
What a fucking prick
>>721003
I know I'm just a white belt but this just happened to me and I feel like you guys would appreciate it. I just think Judo + Grappling is a fucking amazing combo.
>Be me
>be training BJJ and Judo for 5 months-ish
>train for 20 hours a week because, fuck it, why not?
>had four tournament matches since I started (lost, but oh well, if it's not a win, I just paid for more training)
>sign up for Judo class at my uni because why not... extra mat time at least, and they let the top of the class compete in judo tourneys
>laying out tatame mats in the athletic hall room our class is in
>ask why we don't use the wrestling room since it's easier to clean, it's cleaned more often than the tatame mats, and no one is training when we have class
>some neckbeard 200lb hamplanet yellow belt looks at me and spergs "theres NO WRESTLING IN JUDO"
>implying ne-waza is not a part of judo
>implying yellow belt isn't a fucking kids' rank
>ask if it's okay to wear my patched gi's out of respect for the prof/sensei
>yellow belt misheard me and scoffed "we don't *give away* patches here"
>sensei said he doesn't care
>yellow belt fag kissing ass to the brown belt "sempai" the whole class
>Be today
>head student from profs own gym is a brown belt and he's the "TA" for the class
>Brown belt lays me out pretty easily in judo randori, as expected
>After class talking to brown belt dude when he suggests we roll
>He tries to cross collar choke me in my closed guard
wat
>some shit happens
>"bow and arrow" (I forget the name) sweep him from guard
>he pulls a loose ankle lock, to which I roll into him and get mount
>he bridges back but my left leg is over his right shoulder
>Triangle him into a new dimension
>Chill out for a bit after we roll and shoot the shit with him
>ask about yellow belt bitch
>Brown belt dude says that kid is basically the ultra serious weeb who thinks hes hot shit, but never spars and no one likes him.
>Tells me yellow belt dude dropped out
feelsgoodman
>>731075
I enjoyed it.
>Getting mad at someone for using a perfectly legal move
It's not Judo brah.
>>731075
>Aoki was a dickwad for doing this.
>>731112
>He's fucked in the head
>>731201
>What a fucking prick
I don't get it. You guys do realize MMA is *fighting*, right? Where the entire point is to injure your opponent until they can't fight back? Where fighters will often get a bonus for giving someone brain damage? I'd rather get my arm broken than get knocked out tbh.
This is a weird thing I've noticed with a lot of BJJ guys in general though. They think the ultimate goal of a submission is a tap, forgetting that tapping itself is just a training tool. The point of a choke is to render someone unconscious or kill them. The point of an armlock is to break their arm. If the point was to cause pain and make them say uncle, grappling would consist of titty twisters and wedgies. Sure, in a sport grappling context breaking someone's arm is a dick move, because the goal there isn't to injure your opponent. It would be the equivalent of knocking someone out in point-sparring. MMA is a whole other ball game, though.
>>731203
bow and arrow is a submission
i guess you either scissor swept him or pendulum swept
>>731075
The noise it made when it broke was kinda nauseating.
Does /asp/ funk?
I find nothing more rewarding and lulz inducing than ruining my partners or opponents perfectly timed shot that they have me beat on
>>726357
145, thinking about going to 138
>>731203
>NO WRESTLING IN JUDO
What a fucking retard. The pins and the throws can all be found in wrestling, one way or another.
>>733312
Yeah, come to find out no one really liked him... shocker.
It's kinda annoying though how all of these yellow belts who have never competed in judo or any sport though are so critical of my form.
>"Lol how can anyone even randori with a bjj gi thats so dumb"
Like, yeah, everyone who takes judo at my school takes bjj as well, and sorry you have bitch grips.
7/10 will not sign up next semester
>>733333
Aaaand my first quints.
Thank you /asp/
Where the hell do you learn to wrestle after high school or college?
>>733429
Local wrestling clubs, honestly ask your local high school wrestling coach and they can actually point you in the direction where the wrestling clinics or clubs are, since you know, they need to practice their craft to.
Next would be MMA gyms since they scalp wrestlers for training partners, and your local BJJ clubs to see if they're any wrestlers that are cross training.
Push comes to shove ask the local highschool coach for privates, they're not paid that much and yes time might be a factor but i bet if you gave them 20 bucks right there for one on one training you'll get better quality teaching then any mcdojo.
>>733429
MMA gyms or Wrestling clubs. You have better chance of learning wrestling at an mma place though. But be warned, just because they advertise it, doesn't mean they know how to teach it...
>>733431
Alright. I'm just wondering how I'd continue after I graduate college. I'm on a club team now and I was just thinking of continuing judo and BJJ.
>>721003
Mud wrestling bro from india, we basically do a half squat and lunge forward to turn that squat into a push up, we call them double push ups, really good for conditioning and stamina..also sorry for bad english...cheers
>>733557
>mud wrestling
>half squat lunge
So you do that naked to get the mats "muddy" right? I'm assuming that your definition of "mud" is different than ours
>>733562
Its not mud per se..kinda like soil
pic related
>>733571
DESIGNATED
SHITTING
MATS
>>733300
do it, its easy mate, i walk around 150ish.. just drop to 143 before a comp.. do some water loading and salt depletion ect ect then do the suana or bath.. rehydrate properly and smesh it lad.
>>726357
132/128 during the school season, 145/152 during offseason
>>733838
whats your WL stats if you dont mind me asking
>>733571
degenerate.
>>721677
Judo guy here.
First week of practice went pretty well. Had plenty of chances to throw and hiptoss guys because they never expect it, even though they are perfectly legal.I do pretty well in the clinch and if I get taken to the ground but I have trouble defending against their double and single leg takedowns. Any advice that would work on a no-gi opponent?Besides Whizzer...
>>741774
>besides whizzer
Best thing for a single...work on your 4 lines of defense (hands, head, hips and feet). Drill your sprawl and don't forget to circle out of it. It takes time.
>>741779
thanks
>>726357
185 freshman
220 sophomore
220/285 junior
220 senior
>>734106
I went 37-5 in junior year, and took first at three of the five tournaments I went to over the summer
Sorry, I don't broswe /asp/ that often. That's why this is so late
Just ordered these
What are your favorite shoes, /asp/?
>>743969
Asics
>>744063
I meant specific shoes
>>743969
what does everyone think of matflex? there like 30 bucks.. worth it?
>>744677
Don't do it bro the quality is awful go with something just a tad better you won't regret it
>>744677
Extremely entry level and kinda crap quality
>>745675
Does your college have a wrestling club/team?
If yes, contact them to see if you can join.
If not, then find an mma or Judo place. Its the closest you are gonna get im afraid.
>>744392
I really like the baby blue colored shoes but thos are kinda of hard to find.
>>745675
Like >>746396
However I like to add a few things. a lot of college teams won't let you walk without any prior wrestling experience/knowledge with few exception for example if you were a stud in BJJ or judo.
You should ask your university's rec center if they do have a club or contact the local highschool coaches and see if they run clubs outside their highschool teams.
Those would be your best bets if you want to do just wrestling, outside of that finding any legit grappling gym of judo or bjj will help you out a bunch.
