What would benefit most from being a strong, 5 plate squatting, beefy and manly mother fucker: judo or BJJ?
bjj is for fags
>>1180024
Either.
60% technique 40% actual strength.
>>1180024
you will compete in your weight class, so it doesn't matter, /fit/zen. (unless you compete on open weight)
as someone who tries to do both, the correct answer is judo. BJJ is judo for pussies, that's why I do bjj 3x a week and judo maybe once a week I just can't handle the judo
also it's way fucking harder
>>1180098
This seems to mostly depend on your location. In my area, the BJJ/MMA place has the better, harder training. You can get great Judo training at the university as a student, though.
You really need both though. Kano recognized the importance of groundwork after his Judo reps go their asses handed to them by a branch of JJJ that specialized in groundwork. A good throw may be able to take the average faggot out of the fight 99% of the time, but someone who can take the fight to the ground properly won't be thrown so easily, if at all.
Standup and groundwork both need to be trained. Ideally, one day I'd like to hold blackbelts in Judo, BJJ, and a good school of JJJ (just because).
Just like how Boxing is fantastic, but someone who can use their legs properly and box half-assedly will have a huge advantage.
Just pick whichever school is best in your area and commit yourself to that.
>>1180032
being able to hold someone down that's bigger and stronger than you and choke them unconscious is somehow for fags? sounds legit.
>>1180098
But bjj has cooler gi's
>>1180322
It's just the anti-bjj meme that has sprouted up because so many other arts practitioners got salty at bjj's success.
>>1180353
I was under the impression that serious grapplers crosstrained in Judo and/or wrestling anyway, for standup and control.
>>1180024
Judo. BJJ is for smaller dudes if you're using it as self-defense. Of course you could still use it, but if you're already a bigger dude judo would be a much quicker and more effective way to put someone down.
>>1180353
BJJ is a sport. All the mmafags who are more into the sport part than the technical part love BJJ, and as such spout a bunch of bullshit which puts people off.
>>1180322
>being able to hold someone down that's bigger and stronger than you
you fucking wish. The rules of bjj maybe since you aren't allowed to slam people. Try to triangle someone who can actually lift you and watch what happens. Expect to be dunked like a tea bag if you don't let go.
I would also like to express this to everybody reading. If bjj is the only martial art you have ever done, your opinion on it is entirely invalid. the bjj community is a fucking hug box.
k. so i'm gonna do judo and get strong like fuck. throw dudes, bang sluts and not give a fuck.
thanks /asp/
>>1180304
What about judo vs akido as a supplement to a striking style?
>>1180744
Judo all the way. Aikido isn't really even a martial art, it's like moving meditation. It can teach you some serious falling grace and relaxation in motion, but not anything useful in a fight, or even self defense.
It's complimentary at best, a ripoff at worst.
>>1180761
from what i understand aikido has an entire moveset to counter judo and anti grappling curriculum that sounds pretty good for someone to supplement if there a striker
>>1180789
It doesn't happen. They don't even do randori, everything in Aikido is without resistance. It's about being as flowy as fucking possible.
>>1180744
If you want to supplement striking why not just do bjj? From what I hear leg takedowns and groundwork are really useful when fighting other strikers, which is why so many mma fighters train it
>>1180563
>being able to hold someone down that's bigger and stronger than you
>Try to triangle someone who can actually lift you and watch what happens
I really wish this anti-bjj circle-jerk would end. The guy you responded to was talking about holding/controlling someone, why would you then talk about a triangle choke (a submission usually down from the bottom, and when its done from the mount it is an extremely dominant position). Any bjj white belt worth their salt should be very comfortable controlling an inexperienced person using a number of positions such as low-mount, back control, or head-and-hip side control. It's just honestly ridiculous that the anti-bjj rhetoric has gotten to the point where people are saying its practitioners lack the ability to simply hold someone down when the motto of the entire art is "position before submission" and the art literally has a positional flow-chart.
>>1180804
you dont need to randori though kata can teach you the moves as well.
>>1180890
This had better be a troll.
>>1180881
bjj is the only place that the circle jerk happens. Is that all you have done?
what's the biggest person you have successfully taken down and restrained?
I'm going to try and make this more clear if I can. I'm at bjj 3-4 times a week doing gi and no gi and the only reason anyone smaller than me has EVER beaten me in a grappling match is because of the rules. as in, I'm not allowed to punch and kick the shit out of people who are leaving themselves wide open, or slam the fuck out of munchkins that think they can hold me down
And because of the judo and karate I have done people with wildly more bjj experience than me have yet to ever actually achieve a clean takedown of any kind on me. I fucking flying squirreled a brownbelt the other day, it's a fucking joke how limited your options on your feet are when you only play bjj, and you don't even realize it which is the worst part.
and even more unfortunate, that's where fights start. it's not as easy to take gigganiggas down as you think.
>>1180939
I'm 6'1, about 190 lbs. Using bjj i've managed to dominate fully grown men a foot taller than me and at least equal to, and almost assuredly greater than, my own weight. These people were all fresh to grappling. I've used the head-and-arm and low-mount to completely pin these people. I've also been beaten soundly by the more experienced higher-belts in my gym. You bring up your experience in takedown-oriented martial arts like judo, and then act like your TDD and takedown-superiority is suprising, its not. BJJ isn't about having the greatest takedowns and doesn't claim to be. Against the majority of people on this planet, you don't need to have master-class wrestling or judo to take them down, a shitty double leg will do, and if you're in a good bjj or mma gym, you should at least have that. You're reasoning for why BJJ would fail in controlling a bigger, inexperienced person is that you, a quite experienced grappler, have beaten people smaller than you. I don't see how that applies to what I and the other guy were saying. An experienced BJJ white belt should be able, at the very least, to hold down a non-experienced person even if that person is not the same weight as them, to a certain extent. To claim other-wise is just anti-bjj rhetoric.
>>1180939
>>1181015
All argument is telling me is that I should take BJJ and Judo, not just one or the other.
I'm about to start BJJ/no-gi/wrestling/MMA Striking at my local place, but I should have a great Judo opportunity in a couple years at the local Uni when I transfer (I'm 22, starting college late).
How much will the BJJ/wrestling bring to my Judo game when I do get to participate?
>>1181094
You're skills and options on the ground will be better than most of the judokas you'll meet.
>>1181116
*Your
>>1181094
tons. Learning BJJ is like taking a fully comprehensive newaza course before even starting judo, you'll dominate the other white belts (and likely many of the higher belts) on the ground
I had heard that BJJ and Judo is same but with different approach (BJJ is about taking down opponent with you and Judo is to throw down opponent).
Can BJJ practitioner fight like Judokan while Judokan can fight like BJJ practitioner?
>>1181765
Yes. Judo and BJJ are really just different focuses of the same art. Judo emphasizes standing grappling while BJJ emphasizes ground grappling.
They both contain the exact same techniques, but Judo has more subtleties and variations of throws, whereas BJJ has more subtleties and variations of submissions and transitions.
As sports they are quite different but the martial arts are nearly exactly the same.
>>1181015
>a shitty double leg will do
That's a very dangerous assumption. It may be enough, but it may very well result in ending on bottom and getting punched. And unless you know how to deal with strikes while in a bad position, things may very wrong very quickly. Everyone has a plan until they get punched in the face, as they say.
>>1181830
>mike tyson's old quote
rule of thumbs like that may have a grain of truth but you can't rely on them or nothing would ever be improved upon
you're right to a point and as a trainers, teachers, coaches its up to us to instill good habits into muscle memory and good game planning to over come damage over time, strikes and general hardship
Getting punched or feeling pain is a big deterrent to a lot of people and techniques, But a crucial component of martial arts regardless of the style is to overcome that hardship or pain and instill the technique or methodology to over come that pain.
I get what Tyson was saying about getting hit hard makes people panic, but when you look at olympians, champion mindset to succeed you have to dig deep and push through.
Whenever I read people spout that quote I wonder how much training they have had or what kind of people they are or their teachers are, because even rocked or hurt you still work your technique to the bitter end.
>>1180024
also as someone that coaches highschool wrestling and does judo both styles complement weightlifting so can't go wrong with either .
>>1181830
>>1181841
just want to say i get your point about having to cross train and adding strikes to grappling does change a lot of dynamics, i just wanted to interject about the quote. I agree with you that a double shitty leg or any poor technique wouldnt be something to brag or rely upon.
>>1181841
>>1181859
>but when you look at olympians
Well, that's the thing - we aren't olympians. All of us are trained to perform under stress, but there's a good chance significantly - ie. striking in a grappling environment - altering the rules may throw someone off enough for things to go sour because not everyone has had enough pressure testing to reliably ingrain enforcing their own game like an olympian would.
After years of training without them, we've recently started incorporating striking into our training during BJJ, and people who often rely on guard have fared poorly. Even those amongst them who are far better strikers with a decent guard routinely find themselves in bad spots due to my dominant Judo takedown and top game that allows me to utilize strikes far more efficiently. The change in rules has rendered various otherwise viable game plans obsolete because the gaps they possessed.
>>1180939
>flying squirreled
Lol no you fucking didn't. No one on this board has the athleticism to even practice that let alone do it.
>>1180353
I would agree with him, but I think they are more so jealous of the monetary success of BJJ.
>>1180524
I'm a small guy and never understood this logic. If a technique works for a small guy, it will work for a big guy for you, too.
Black belt judo, purple belt bjj, btw
>>1181765
a judo person who competes in a bjj competition, may even win some matches and has a reasonable shot
a bjj person in a judo match would get their shit wrecked harder than a dixie cup under a cinder block
>>1182228
in order to have more explosive movement and kicks a fairly regular part of by work outs include trampoline exercises, and sometimes just jumping on the floor. Squat and jump as hard as I can and just do that a whole bunch of times.
>>1182795
I think you seriously underestimate BJJ's developed ground game. A Judo guy can hold off, but a "decent chance" lol you're kidding yourself.
And this is coming from a Judo guy, I do Judo knowing full well that if I fought a BJJ guy, I'd just my Judo to keep it on the feet, and general ground knowledge to survive if I got there, I wouldn't try to submit him. That and I have always been primarily a Muay Thai guy. I got my brown belt in Judo, it's like a blue belt in BJJ.
Also to people saying BJJ won't work as effectively because of strikes, this depends on who you train with, and what your goal is. If you train like the Gracies, or BJJ for MMA, then this won't be an issue. The Gracies (as much as I dislike them for their lack of character) were correct in their assessment of sport BJJ ruining the art for self defense.
>>1182795
>I squat and jump a lot so that means that I can flying squirrel a high level grappler
Yeah and I climbed trees as a kid so I can be a pro boxer
>>1184112
means I can spring into action explosively. Skill has nothing to do with stopping that technique. it takes half a step in any direction to totally shut it down. it's one of those ....wait what the fuck just happened? techniques that will only work once
>>1184151
>>1184151
it isnt as simple and you're ignoring the set up, combinations and feints you can do . Its more then just a gotcha move. Using a snap down or controlling a scramble and break away are great openings for a flying squirrel. Its skill, timing and a simple half step won't deter it.
You talk as someone who hasn't trained the move, been on the receiving end of the move and just watch whatever gifs are posted or higlights thinking you have the perfect gameplan to counter it
>>1184222
>You talk as someone who hasn't trained the move
of course I haven't trained the move. I said "heh, time to try this fucking shit!" and hit it
also I will have you know I taunt people constantly. That's part of my game, I dance around and comment while rolling, people have yelled at me before. STOP TALKING JUST FUCKING ROLL
getting upset little guy?
>>1184234
pretty sure most people in this thread train and would curb stomp your autism into plebianess
>>1180024
Do both, my Alliance BJJ gym has an olympic judo guy come in every weekend to teach basic throws and defense. If you like Huedo then you can go take it F/T
what the fuck is this flying squirrel you aspies mumbling about?
>>1184569
https://youtu.be/rLnW_UdyugI
>>1184579
>https://youtu.be/rLnW_UdyugI
Maybe i watch to much wwe but that looks fake i mean its a sunset flip pretty much. and the other guy doesn't sell the bump so they stumble and land all weird
>>1184588
It's funk style of real wrestling, you goof.
>>1184588
Maybe go to Azerbaijan or Iran and ask one of their Olympic guys to try it out on you. If you resist it, I'm sure he won't be able to get it on your because it "looks fake."
>>1184528
jump, grab, flip
its a pretty simple move, just gotta do it
>>1180325
Go back to /fa/
>>1184254
I don't think that's accurate.
I'm considering making a run at the UFC in the future. Whether or not I can take a title is another story, but I know for sure I would have some success. And the crowd would love me because I'm a disrespectful shithead to my opponents while fighting.
I don't mean it of course, I actually have nothing but respect for the people who train hard and have skills, but I also want to beat them and if that requires emotionally hurting them first then that's just what I have to do.
