I don't understand people, that saying " I hate Roman Reigns, but if they turn him heel, it would be great"
Why would you hate wrestler for being heel/face, you stupid fuck? Why would it be great? Did heel turn make Eva Marie a better wrestler?
If people will love Reigns because he will be hell, i'm done with stupid wrestling fans.
*heel
>>1168016
I don't hate him, I want him to turn because the babyface push is not working.
Heel Eva >>>>>>> Face Eva
>>1168016
>Did heel turn make Eva Marie a better wrestler?
Of course not. But heel Eva is fantastic.
Monday was the first time in a long time I actually liked Ramen. He doesn't need to turn heel but if he could be the guy he was on Raw I'd be good with him as champ. The thing people don't like is the fear that he's the next Cena because the last thing WWE needs is another Cena
Roman is a decent ring worker.
>>1168025
Yeah, but so what?
Bryan around WrestleMania 30:
>"I'm doing this for these people! It's all about these people! These people like me!"
>"YES! Crush Vince's dream, Bryan! Put an end to 10 years of phony garbage overcoming of odds!"
>Gets slapped and hit by Stephanie McMahon and does nothing
>No-sells everything and overcomes the odds and hugs a cancer child
>fights Kane afterwards alongside his boyfriend Brie Bella
>Smarks say "finally someone new for a change!"
Roman Reigns around WrestleMania 32:
>Doesn't bring dozens of plant-fans in Che Guevara shirts to the ring, does everything as a lone badass just like Austin, even though Bryan was the one trying to copy Austin and failed
>"I'm not a bad guy, I'm not a good guy, I'm just the guy"
>"T-t-ten more years!! Ten more years I can't take it!! SAME OLD SHIT SAME OL- OH WAIT I CAN'T SWEAR IN MY EDGY CHANTS THAT'S NOT PG I LOVE PG"
>spears Stephanie McMahon and doesn't apologize to feminists the day after
>Fights a long, believable match in cool black attire against 1/3rd of the opponents Bryan kicked 'oh-so-crispily' at WM30, and no Komen ribbons in sight
>Handles rabid boos without trying to pander the next day, faces someone he didn't fight before at the next PPV
>Smarks say "C-C-CENA 2.0!!!!1 CENA 2.0!!!1"
>>1168036
Bryan connects, Roman doesn't
not rocket science famalam
Roman is a great wrestler, you fucking idiot. His only problem is his character which they are fixing now. Last night was great for Roman
>shooing off sami and aj styles
>>1168038
I liked that a lot. More of that Roman Reigns and less nursery rhyme goober Roman Reigns
Yeah just let him be a jack ass instead of a dedicated face or heel.
And he needs new music.
>>1168032
So your argument about turning him heel not making him a better wrestler doesn't mean anything...
Roman talking about how he has the belt because he's THE GUY and how no matter what anyone says he'll always be THE GUY while beating down AJ Styles would be more interesting to watch I WILL HOLD ON TO THIS TITLE BECAUSE I WORKED HARD TO BE HERE BALEE DAT.
Acknowledging the only reason he's on top is because the company wants him there is better than pretending he's the underdog. Every Authority promo we've had recently is fucking retarded because we know that Vince wants him to be on top - so every time Vince comes out and talks about how Roman can't possibly overcome the odds he's stacking against him looks retarded.
>>1168048
more interesting to watch than*
>>1168048
What? Dude, I only just came in here.
>>1168051
I am now imagining you walking into a room and this fat neckbead coming up to you and going on that rant immediately.
>>1168051
Thought you were the OP who posted
>Did heel turn make Eva Marie a better wrestler?
I really wish they bury him like they did with Dolph.
But then I watch the guy, and he looks angry, is not that he is becoming heel, he is actually angry. I hope he punch someone backstage and gets fired.
Heel or face, He just doesn't have it. Booking doesn't give you talent. Name 1 superstar who went over just with booking, without talent.
He still sucks
>>1168036
2/10
>>1168055
Goldberg
>>1168038
He's bad in the ring, senpai.
>>1168016
Because he looks like a heel and he's being pushed as a face. Look at him, he looks way to much like heel. If he wants to go big, he needs to become a heel, he already has the heat.
>>1168016
I don't hate the guy on a personal level, the decision to give him a mega push as a babyface is awful though. Let him be a heel for while now, drop the title after a feud or two, give the character time to breathe, CHANGE IT a little instead of him wearing The Shield's clothing still (he's literally like X-Pac when he still had DX attire and he's attracting X-Pac heat, coincidence?) and I'm sure people will settle down and give him a chance. I'm still skeptic that they will do this though, we'll see.
>>1168074
It's not the truth when its a shit opinion bucko.
Take that shit to /wooo/. Better yet, go join in on the Roman circlejerk at /SquaredCircle/ you'll fit right in.
>Fights a long, believable match in cool black attire against 1/3rd of the opponents Bryan kicked 'oh-so-crispily' at WM30, and no Komen ribbons in sight
The mental gymnastics at work to try and make the maint event outcome of WM32 to be superior in both match quality and getting over to WM30 is astounding.
He's an average wrestler, a shit promo on the way to finally changing his character a little bit, maybe even go full heel. Nothing more. Nothing less.
I'm not angry or happy, I'm ambivalent.
>>1168074
>Or maybe you meant emotional connection, which is just another stating of an opinion like it's fact
Are you legit this fucking stupid or are you pretending to not understand show business
>>1168016
Because people are better fits for different roles based on their own personalities and reactions from the audience.
These roles define what they do on-screen. What they do on-screen defines how entertaining they are.
>>1168089
>Take that shit to /wooo/. Better yet, go join in on the Roman circlejerk at /SquaredCircle/ you'll fit right in.
I'm pretty sure those are the top 2 anti-Roman websites, but then again you're the authority being from there yourself.
>The mental gymnastics at work to try and make the maint event outcome of WM32 to be superior in both match quality and getting over to WM30 is astounding.
I didn't say anything about the match quality or getting over.
If you read my post completely, you can see that my point was not about Roman Reigns at all. I was talking about the double standards of neckbeards who want WWE to be the exact same as it's been through the PG Era just with shorter people but pretend they're revolutionaries, thinking they're smart going against Vince McMahon and thinking they forced him to change his mind.
>>1168092
>Are you legit this fucking stupid or are you pretending to not understand show business
If you've been reading the "IWC" for a while, you'll see that they all say Bryan is a genuine, humble person despite never speaking to him in person. Aside from that, it's been proven that half the 'connection' is the Yes chant and that the Yes chant can be started by Stephanie McMahon. Crowds can lie as much as individuals.
>>1168089
>go join in on the Roman circlejerk at /SquaredCircle/
You seem to know a lot about reddit. Maybe you should head on back there since it's pretty clear you're new on here.
>>1168116
>it's been proven
Source your proof then
>>1168136
>the you must be new here meme
If you're gonna be pretend to be an oldfag at least roast me like one.
>>1168116
>trying to rationalize why one guy connects and the other doesn't as though that nullifies that connection in literally(LITERALLY) any way whatsoever
kill yourself my man
>>1168147
The website that en masse prints out "Cesaro Section" signs like Roman? Top lel pham please head on back.
Do you understand what it is I'm saying to you right now?
>>1168151
Don't look now anon, but you're exposing yourself.
>>1168062
underrated post
>>1168139
The proof that half the connection is the yes chant is that everything from his moves to his promo's to his merchandise is about the yes chant. His matches are based on when the crowd will repeat "OOOOhh... yes!" in a Kindergartener fashion, his promo's are based on when the sentence will end with the word yes, and probably most of his merchandise has the word yes on it.
The proof that anyone can start the yes chant even if the promo is literally against Daniel Bryan during the very storyline of WM30 that I was talking about:
...Well, I can't find the video, but it's well known that Stephanie McMahon and Big Show have both started yes chants, you should check for yourself.
>>1168149
It does. Why wouldn't it? Are you saying there aren't different ways to connect with the audience? One thing that's evidence that these people never cared about Daniel Bryan's story is that two years have passed and they're still watching the Authority that his story was supposed to end. He made practically no difference or change to anything other than more crowds like the last Raw's. But these people are so used to the WWE's staleness that they pretend they hate that they forgot there are supposed to be weekly consequences.
>>1168185
>The proof that half the connection is the yes chant is that everything from his moves to his promo's to his merchandise is about the yes chant
I think you might be confused about what "proof" is. Let me see where you arrive on the "half" figure and what part of a chant makes Bryan have a connection with the crowd. Crowds chant "feed me more" at Ryback's cues but I don't see anyone rooting for him to be in any championship matches. Don't try and pass off shit you made up as "proof" of anything.
>>1168185
>One thing that's evidence that these people never cared about Daniel Bryan's story is that two years have passed and they're still watching the Authority that his story was supposed to end.
This statement has literally the same internal logic as "the fact that I wear wool socks is evidence that spaghetti tastes good." It's fucking gibberish. Show your fucking work or shut the fuck up.
>>1168205
>This shitty attempt at banter
>>1168228
>this non-response
>>1168228
Bet money he was grinning when he hit submit lol
>>1168197
>>1168205
It's clear that I'm speaking to two neckbeards in angry denial and it is pointless to continue arguing, which is what happens anytime anyone criticizes Bryan, but I'll try to answer it anyway.
>I think you might be confused about what "proof" is. Let me see where you arrive on the "half" figure and what part of a chant makes Bryan have a connection with the crowd. Crowds chant "feed me more" at Ryback's cues but I don't see anyone rooting for him to be in any championship matches. Don't try and pass off shit you made up as "proof" of anything.
I'll analyse it.
His matches: a series of kicks to provoke the "yes" chant", the "yes chant" as his pre-finishing taunt, the opponent just kneeling in front of him as he kicks for the "yes" chant, shaking around and nodding his head to express the word "yes", "yes" in the entrance walk, "yes" in the titantron, "yes" after winning a match, and "yes" before flying headbutts.
His promos/merchandise: Just watch/look at any of them. His non-wrestling appearances also revolve around the chant.
Ryback has only a third of that.
>Crowds chant "feed me more" at Ryback's cues but I don't see anyone rooting for him to be in any championship matches.
I didn't imply anything like that. I didn't say they like Bryan because they like chanting for him. They like chanting for him because they like the chant and it happens to be related to him, which was why I brought up the fact that Stephanie McMahon started the chant against Bryan. It has nothing to do with Bryan personally or his story.
(1/2)
this is a face right
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9U2Iy4Jhg00
>>1168264
(2/2)
>This statement has literally the same internal logic as "the fact that I wear wool socks is evidence that spaghetti tastes good." It's fucking gibberish. Show your fucking work or shut the fuck up.
His victory was supposed to be meaningful. It was claimed to be for a real change in the WWE as a promotion when it didn't even change the storyline on Raw and he didn't even have a full Championship reign. There was a campaign to cancel WWE Network subscriptions, there was the Royal Rumbles' booing, and so forth, yet they're still watching.
This is clear evidence that their 'connection' is to the WWE - no, to the PG Era WWE. As more and more normal ("casual") fans stop watching, and all that's left is neckbearded geeks, they're all that's left as the biggest PG Era fans of them all pretending they like people they don't really care about such as Daniel Bryan. The last time there were boos like now was for Cena around 2006, and they all stopped watching WWE because they weren't hypocrites trying to be spoonfed. If you read the "IWC", they're obsessed with Roman Reign's eyes and Vince McMahon's sexuality. If these millennials were taught about the boy who cried wolf, they would understand that that's exactly what they're being by paying WWE to go boo everyone that's 6 feet tall every single week for three years instead of going away.
>>1168264
>>1168275
>His matches: a series of kicks to provoke the "yes" chant", the "yes chant" as his pre-finishing taunt, the opponent just kneeling in front of him as he kicks for the "yes" chant, shaking around and nodding his head to express the word "yes", "yes" in the entrance walk, "yes" in the titantron, "yes" after winning a match, and "yes" before flying headbutts.
Congrats senpai, you noticed that a performer has a hook with the crowd he performs in front of. It's unfortunate that it appears to be the first and only time you've ever noticed such a thing happening in literally any entertainment medium but I can assure you it isn't, and I can also tell you that it doesn't delegitimize Daniel Bryan's connection with the crowd at all. Stone Cold had "what?" to the point he was deliberately listing things off in promos to give crowds the opportunity to chant "what?" at him. That's what any good performer does: engages his audience. Paul Heyman has talked about this at length many times over. It's the science of entertainment.
So yes, Daniel Bryan has a chant, he engages crowds with it, but that doesn't prove that's why he connects. Correlation and causation fallacy. Showing THAT it happens doesn't demonstrate WHY that happens.
>all that's left as the biggest PG Era fans of them all pretending they like people they don't really care about such as Daniel Bryan
This is nothing more than you inserting your own cynical perspective into a narrative and not based in anything remotely provable. Just because you think or feel as though nobody could like a performer for legitimate reasons doesn't mean they don't. You only speak for yourself.
And if you're going to be a cynic, you maybe shouldn't be calling anyone a neckbeard.
>>1168327
Changing the goalposts, I see.
You asked how it was half.
I showed it was more than Ryback. You mentioned Austin who he is also doing it more than.
You also asked how it was the substance of his connection to the fans, and now not only ignore the evidence I provided (which is that half of his stuff is about it, not a sixth like Ryback and Austin, and if everything is about the yes chant, how is that not the connection?) but also contradict yourself by making your whole post about how that's obviously the connection. Correlation and causation is not a fallacy.
Even if what I said about Bryan isn't enough to show that's why he connects, it can be concluded from all the other behaviors of modern crowds. The kind of crowd that was on Raw last week did not behave like any crowds before Bryan became popular. The Attitude Era crowds that chanted "What?" did a lot more than chant. All crowds today do is chant. Therefore the correlation is so much that it can be the only cause.
To sum it up: I explained how it's half already, and if half is three times more than the next most then it's probably because of that. He doesn't have any story besides uttering the word yes. When he wins, HHH is still there. When he loses, he's still saying yes. Everything he does is about yes. I don't know what else there is to explain.
>>1168116
>those are the top 2 anti-Roman websites
Reddit loves reigns
>>1168362
Do you seriously not understand what a connection is and how important it is not just in wrestling, but in entertainment? Why do you think Jeff Dunham is so popular despite not being funny and using puppets in his act? If you can't connect, you can't make people care about you or your act.
That's the big difference between Daniel Bryan and Roman Reigns. One was capable of making that connection, the other wasn't.
>>1168016
It's not easy to take someone who's gimmick in the SHIELD was "guy who scores the one devastating spear leading to the triple-team finisher" and turn him into babyface. WWE programming sure proved that with the nursery rhymes and "s-s-s-sufferin' succotash" crap.
On the other hand, letting Roman be the guy who knows, in his heart and head, that he can beat anybody in a square fight (and even in an unfair one) and be cocky about it... that works. Provided the announce team and marketing doesn't continue to try and push him as a family-friendly Good Guy.
They were trying to build on that with his program against Lesnar, a few years back. Lesnar was throwing Reigns around like a ragdoll, but the guy kept grinning and laughing like "Oh is THAT your best shot? Seriously?"
(Skipping the bit where I rationalize him staying down and laughing because hell, there's no match or title or anything on the line so... go ahead and feel butch there, Bouncing Boy... I'll knock you out when the time is right)
This kind of Reigns is the Reigns the fans liked when he was in the SHIELD. So, we'll see.
>>1168016
>I don't understand people, that saying " I hate Roman Reigns, but if they turn him heel, it would be great"
Because him as a face is working out so well and really connecting with the crowd?
>Why would you hate wrestler for being heel/face, you stupid fuck?
Because the storylines are written and shows are booked as if we like this guy, the commentators have to pretend that people like him, when he gets boos or indifference whenever he does anything at all. It makes shows either awkward or just unintentionally hilarious
>Why would it be great? Did heel turn make Eva Marie a better wrestler?
No but it made everything less awkward when she could start to play up to the audience and not be working against the reaction the whole time with the commentators pretending it wasn't there.
>If people will love Reigns because he will be hell, i'm done with stupid wrestling fans.
I won't "love" him, I just want this shitty booking to stop stinking up the product. Everything works so much better when you have full arenas behind a guy or against them. Reigns seems like more of a natural heel, he is so swarmy and unlikable, the only time he's ever had mic time and his character work was back in NXT as a swarmy heel who thought he was superior to everyone. I'd rather watch someone do something he is good at than fail badly at doing something he's not. And it all matters more because this is meant to be "the guy", we see him beat the shit out of everyone else every week. It matters more that he doesn't suck than it does with anyone else on the roster.
>>1168414
Consider the circumstances. Have you not heard of the phrase "cheap heat"? Not everything that gets chanted for a little while is worth anything. Stuff can be more or less shallow. That's what I've been saying all along and after I showed it you're now trying to say that that doesn't matter anyway. Daniel Bryan will not be remembered. He's just going to have some crappy Hall of Fame induction where he thanks Batista for letting himself look like the weakest person alive for losing to him. There's no real connection because they only supported him because they can relate to someone that looks like a weakling hobo and they think WWE is trying to hold him down no matter how many times he 'winslol'. It's the same reason they cheer for Ziggler and Sandow. Even the crowd interaction is like an army of clones or a row of assembly line machines. You could put anyone in Bryan's place and as long as he's small the exact same thing would've happened. That isn't a real connection.
>>1168429
That was one year ago, not years ago.
![[thinks about suplexes].png](https://i.imgur.com/r7Cq7pb.png "[thinks about suplexes].png")
>>1168530
>smart marks using insider terms they don't know the meaning of
You're referring to cheap pops, which are things like praising the local sports team and sucking up to the city
just stop posting
>>1168550
Yes, how is it different? He kicks over and over again no matter how unrealistic without stopping because it's free yes chants. Whenever something is repeated just to provoke a chant, that's cheap.
>>1168560
Also, to clarify, Austin stopping for What chants is not the same thing because he was actually saying sentences relevant to the feud, not one word that is used by nearly everyone on earth every day.
>>1168016
Fans hate him so they might as well acknowledge that on the show and run with it.
>>1168560
>smart mark again demonstrating he doesn't know what a cheap pop is
And after you tried to be all condescending with your "hurr do you know what cheap heat is?"
Just because you call it cheap doesn't mean it is
>>1168568
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=J3kqfuGHbeI
Literally took a minute to prove you wrong
>>1168016
Honestly, he worked best when he didn't say much, and he was more of a silent strong guy for the SHIELD.
He doesn't even necessarily need to be a heel either. I think if they turn him into the "I don't give a shit what you think about me, because I'm going to hold onto this belt because it's what matters to me" guy, and have him seem nigh obsessed about the belt, he'd be a lot more interesting than he is now.
>>1168572
First of all, you only interpreted my sentence about cheap heat as condescending.
Second of all, that is exactly what it is. You're the one misusing words. The pop is the actual reaction. The heat is what the wrestler is doing.
>Literally took a minute to prove you wrong
What?
He's doing exactly what I said. Not just repeating the word what and sticking his hands in the air, which is what I said he didn't do.
>>1168619
>he was actually saying sentences relevant to the feud
You have ten seconds to explain the relevance of Whataburger to the Royal Rumble
That promo, by the way, is the epitome of cheap pops, right down to referencing the regional burger chain.
>>1168619
>The pop is the actual reaction. The heat is what the wrestler is doing.
I don't get it either. You cannot look at this man and see anything but future WWE Champion.
People are just mad that the future is now.
>>1168638
In a fast food drive-through, burgers get dropped out of the hand through the window. Austin will throw people over the top rope like those burgers, like "eating them for breakfast". You clearly didn't understand the metaphor.
Anyway, it's ironic that you pointed out the most distant thing and it's still closer to the matter at hand than one word being repeated over and over again and the fans never say no to like rape victims.
>>1168652
>In a fast food drive-through, burgers get dropped out of the hand through the window. Austin will throw people over the top rope like those burgers, like "eating them for breakfast".
you literally just made that up
>>1168652
>burgers get dropped out of the hand through the window
What the hell are you talking about.
>>1168644
He definitely has the look, but his mic and ring skill are mediocre. Granted he hasn't been given the best material, but he hasn't improved at all really in the last year.
>>1168671
not that I disagree but gay community's mic skills are just as bad
>>1168673
Certainly,, but he's a better wrestler and he has something of a look, not WHC, but upper mid-card at least. My biggest problem with Roman is he doesn't really have an incentive to improve and wrestling was never his passion anyway, it was a backup plan. Vince has committed to him being the guy so he'll be a main eventer for at least the next 4 years. Crews might give him some competition if his mic work can improve, he's already a better wrestler than Roman, but most of the older main eventers are looking at part time gigs or retirement. Seth's and Dean are the only other young guys I can see moving into the regular main event picture as Orton and Cena start winding down.
>>1168682
Yeah, okay. Name the number of real strong upper card guys in the last 2 decades that aren't either: Bodybuilders, football players, olympic wrestlers (or NCAA, just not pro wrassling), or even actors first and foremost.
>>1168074
3/10 for effort
b8 is too obvious
>>1168717
Austin, Taker, Bret, Michaels, Benoit, Eddie.
>>1168037
you connect with daniel because you're a midget, just like him.
Of course it made Eva better. It also saved The New Day you stupid fuck.
Roman is the biggest heel in the company whether WWE admits it or not. Why they're not capitalizing on his scotching heat is beyond me.
>>1168327
Stone Cold had what? after he was pretty much done
You know ya boy's over when everyone on the IWC is still talking about him and not the IWC favorite ziggler
Every big time face had a run as a heel that let them find a character as well as let the fans root for him organically. Hogan, Rock, HBK, Austin, Cena, etc.
>>1168016
he gets massive cheers at house shows. as long as he gets them he ain't turning heel.
>wanting a natural babyface and bad ass underdog to be a heel
>>1168089
>implying hating the big dog isn't the most rėddit thing objectively possible
>smarks actually believe this
you have to go back
There's nothing really wrong with Reigns as an in-ring performer, but he needs to learn how to cut a promo and stopped being booked to be a retard that always gets taken advantage of. There's a difference between being an underdog because of the opponent you're facing and being an underdog because you keep on losing like a bitch.
>>1168016
Same thing as when people wanted Cena to turn.
Difference is, Cena can actually put on good matches. His feuds usually leave a lot to be desired, but his matches usually range from above average to great.
Reigns is dogshit pretty much entirely.
>>1169800
Exactly, exactly.
>>1169744
But he's not the underdog. It feels like his chances are much higher than his opponent against almost everyone
