I'm a mainly a grappler by training (Judo/BJJ), and I have a little boxing experience, so I don't know much about spinning/flying shit
Are flying knees or spinning moves actually more useful/powerfull than regular kicks, punches, or elbows? Or are they just there to look pretty?
I feel like spinning moves just open you up to being picked off if they go wrong. A good classic example is fedor vs arlovski where fedor drops arlovski as he's flying towards him with a hook to the jaw
<iframe width="854" height="480" src="https://www.youtube.com/embed/TAJvo6LVtGc" frameborder="0" allowfullscreen></iframe>
Another good recent example is northcutt's tapout that resulted from his failed cartwheel kick
convince me /asp/, why are spinning moves effective?
>Are flying knees or spinning moves actually more useful/powerfull than regular kicks, punches, or elbows?
if done correctly, yes.
however they are riskier than more traditional techniques so its not a good idea to spam them
>>1114124
since you're a grappler ask yourself are flying armbars and flying takedowns useful?
sometimes right depending on the situation
same could be said about flying knees and spinning moves.
>>1115678
Do you have a example of a non pro-wrestling flying takedown?
I can tell you this much, rhonda might still have her title if she knew how to throw a spinning back fist
know why spinning stuff is especially effective? because people disregard it and don't train it, so they are easy as balls to hit
>>1114124
No. Flippy shit has no place in a real fight.
>>1115729
>>1115729
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=rLnW_UdyugI
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267i7rKeECA
>>1115740
>>1115740
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=267i7rKeECA
>>1115742
>>1115743
>>1115748
bet u regret not trimming that belly either lol
>>1115735
whatever you say boss
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=iCg3bpdfc7g
>>1115748
If you have a shitty college nearby ( Community/Junior College or Division II or III college) you could probably ask to see if they'd let you train with them, maybe see if you can pay some dues in order to do so
Or you could try sambo/No gi BJJ and just try to learn wrestling moves from dudes that did wrestling in HS or college
>>1115735
people use to say the same shit about judo not working in "real fights" but it does.
to a certain degree, and i reinterate to a certain degree most stuff like spinning backfist, jumping knees flying takedowns and flying armbars have a time and place to work, you need to train the reflexes and cognitive abilities to seize the timing and opportunity when to land them.
>>1115740
>>1115742
>>1115743
>>1115745
Thanks, and god that flying leg scissor was beautiful.
To bad I can't add that flying squirrel to my game. In my club I am the biggest (by mass) upper ranks. So I am sure if I tried, they would just collapse backwards from the weight difference alone. Then I would get yelled at, lol.
Cool move though.
>>1115763
I have literally never heard someone say judo doesn't work in a real fight
>>1115768
could always add an imanari roll for your takedown game and leglock game
>>1115769
you must not lurk on the judo generals here or been on old /asp/ always have had people bring it up all the time.
>>1115790
I meant IRL for people that like, you know, actually train
But yeah I'll admit that Judo's weakness is that it requires clothing for optimum wreckage. If some bro on the beach or wearing a wife-beater fucks with you, your timing will definitely be a little off
But if you're a good little judoka you'll have practiced your ogoshi, kata guruma and uchi mata. You see those a lot in mma for a reason
But yeah Olympic judo is a bit cucked for making double/single legs illegal
Makes me want to try out sambo or no gi BJJ for the wrestling influence
>>1114124
TKD
Flying knees are some nasty shit if you can land them, and people generally don't see a flying anything coming. Covers a lot of distance and keeps your legs under you so while I can't say I'd recommend it personally, it has utility.
spinning moves actually are effective but pretty much only as a suckerpunch that is too fancy to be frowned on.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=470OiKL2roU
>>1116002
> TKO by dead leg
Why are all martial autists such pussies lads?
>>1116516
Thanks for posting your opinion on 4chan, obese man who gets off to men in panties fake fighting on TV.
>>1117013
Id wager ive probably knocked more people out than you irl 2bh
>>1117054
Yeah, by sitting on them. Or even with your odor.
>>1117540
there is a really smelly guy in my jiujitsu class. I hate rolling with him, its so pungent you don't even want to have the match. And it sucks because his smell gets on you and your clothes and you are tracking it around all night
>>1115785
Will take a lot of practice, but I love leg locks so it will SO worth taking the time to learn to make it work for me.
Thanks for the suggestion.
>>1114124
It sets all of your weight in motion with a ton of momentum. So yes, they are riskier, but you're more likely to score the ko.
>>1116002
Wrong title, fella..
>>1116516
The guy in the red shorts is Any Hug, who was considered one of the greatest Kyokushin fighters ever, and probably one of the best kickers in history. Hug was called the "Axe kick murderer" for a reason..
Have you ever experienced a heel kick to the leg? It's hurt like shit when it's placed right, even at short distance. Now this technique, the "Hug Tornado", uses the full spin momentum to plant the heel into the other guys leg. Maybe it looks not so bad in slow motion, but in real time it's brutal.
Here you can also see him KO'ing people with spinning kicks and spinning backfists, he was just so damn fast and had an amazin timing, they never saw it coming:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bXmqBBy2mpk
>>1114124
>Are flying knees or spinning moves actually more useful/powerfull than regular kicks, punches, or elbows?
Not "more" usefull, no. But the trick with all jumps is to know when to use them and when not.
The main concept is, that you can use a jumping kick/knee whenever you close the distance.
For example, you go infight, throw some fists "bam bam" and retreat. And again. When you do it for a third time you just jump into him. You try to puts the other guy into a backward movement, because you can travel the distance faster than him and kick/punch with the full momentum behind it.
A good example is the superman punch:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wHI4jhoHQh8
>>1118124
>Oh he sounds pretty good I wonder why he hasn't do-
>dead at 35
nigga oh no
>>1118215
>>1114124
>Are flying knees or spinning moves actually more useful/powerfull than regular kicks, punches, or elbows?
They're not 'more useful' but they're additional tools in your toolbox. As a BJJ man you can understand this: your got to submissions are what? Kimura, Triangle, Armbar, Rear Naked, Omoplata, there about. Those are the ones you should be looking for. But those are the ones your opponent is looking for the most.
And so you have your gogoplatas, your baseball bat chokes, peruvian neckties etc. etc. Sometimes you get the unexpected submission with them. But more importantly, even if you can't get them, they keep your opponent from getting too comfortable.
PHYSICS
really, that's why they're more effective. A kick (or anything) has a certain amount of energy that it transfers to the receiver. It will always have some kinetic energy in the direction (forward) that you're kicking. You will transfer this to the person receiving.
In addition to the direct linear force, you could also have some rotational force. That's why boxers turn their fists as they punch: because they're adding the rotational force to the linear force, and transferring more energy by the punch.
Kicks work the same way: if you add rotational energy to the linear energy, you transfer more energy to the receiver, and therefore it's a "harder" strike.
>Important point:
This assumes that you can still deliver the same amount of linear kinetic energy. If by adding 5x rotational energy, you lose 10x linear energy, then it would be weaker. But if you can add 10x rotational energy and only lose 5x (or 0x) linear energy, you will have a harder strike. This is the same reason modern tanks are smoothbore: they only have so much powder to fire the shell, and by having it all be direct kinetic energy and no rotational energy, it has more punching power to get through armor. (The point being that they can't "add" power by rotating, they can only sacrifice it). That's called a kinetic-energy penetrator (KEP) round, for anyone who likes war.
tl;dr you can potentially add energy by spinning
>>1114124
Spinning kicks are literally the strongest knockout kicks there are. You only leave yourself open if you're sloppy and off balance or too close. Spinning fists and elbows can be a good way to attack and defend at the same time. You basically dodge out of the way with your spin and then hit them. In certain circumstances they can be very useful.
Knees from outside are fucking stupid imo and do leave you open. It's high risk, high reward. You need to catch your opponent off guard with it for it to work because if they resist your attempt to pull down their head and slam it into your knee, then even if you hit (which is unlikely), you won't do any damage, and if they see it coming it can be countered easily because you have to have your hands out away from your face to do the move. They can make for great knockout shots but they're just too risky and smart fighters shouldn't do them unless the moment is just perfect.
>>1118760
but I think it would be important to figure out if you are accelerating or decelerating through a kick. I can tell you for a fact my spinning back and side are weaker at impact than my straight. I would more so be sacrificing power to get a weird tricky angle
Its true spinning kicks generate huge amounts of torque. However understand you shouldnt even consider trying them without first spending several years mastering the more basic kicks. hip rotation, balance, speed, grace all come from years of experience.
Just look at How fluid Andy hugs technique is. this is after 20+ years of training KK/K1
>>1114124
Well first some spinning moves are harder to do than others. A spinning back kick doesn't necessary opens you more than a regular front kick if you are at a good distance.
Can't talk about knees ,but spinning elbows can work well, especially if your opponent is not in your axis.
A spinning roundhouse or crescent kick however usually are more complicated than needed so usually are a bad idea unless you trained them extensively and you have the setup for them. But they'll deliver a lot of power if they connect.
>>1115995
That Was Sick As Fuck!
>>1119011
>several years
>years of experience
It's not the years, it's the skill.
Someone could spend 5 years training, but not be as good as someone who's spent 2 years training.
Some people develop skill more quickly than others.
>>1118872
that's what the "important point" section is meant to address. whether you transfer more power is entirely dependent on the type of move, and how you execute the move. you'd have to do a breakdown of every single move and all the muscles involved to determine if something specific is more or less powerful. it's a very complicated issue that's situation-dependent
>I just wanted to lay out the scientific basis for the [complicated] answer
>>1119011
scientifically, attacking the head is also much more effective - not because the head is weaker, but because of physics (i.e. torque). If you kick them at their center of mass, you will have the force of the impact. But if you have that same impact and it's at the very top of their body (say 2 feet from their center of mass) it will have a much greater effect, because of torque. While the impact's force, per se, will be the same, the fact that it will push them off balance (as shown in the gif) will make it much more effective.
