How do you handle a dog that is showing signs of aggression at that very moment? For example:
>150lb dog swipes a pop tart off table
>dog knows it was wrong
>human calls out dog
>dog retreats under table into a corner
>dog growls shows fear aggression
Okay, so what? You can't reach in and drag them out or you lose an arm. You can't walk away or it's showing them that being aggressive is super-effective. You can't reach a broom in there and stab at them for obvious reasons. You can't lure them out with steak or, again, it's rewarding negative behavior. She's also incredibly independent and pleasing humans is not high on her list.
I've always done my best to never hesitate or show fear and just rush the dog and make a grab - fur, collar, thighs from behind, whatever, and quickly get her into her crate. So far, no bites. She's only snapped at me (warning snap). But it's always scary and I would like a better method. Particularly something my wife can do.
This dog is super-good. Professional obedience trained. Well socialized. Knows all the commands and a few tricks. Lazy, quiet, very friendly, generally harmless. No bite history. But she's STILL a 150lb Great Pyrenees and it's pretty intimidating she starts that belly growl that can silence a concert hall.
Anyway, what do you do? Pic related.
>fear aggression
Sounds like resource guarding actually.
>>2098097
i got a taser (low current) for cases like that.
>>2098097
Start growling yourself, flip the table, and retrieve the pop tart. She's just a dog, 150 lbs or not you'll be able to get the pop tart back without receiving damage.
If she tries to bite you, bite her first. You can make your point without hurting her.
>>2098117
>Doesn't know "leave it"
Sadly, she DOES know "Leave it" and "drop it", as well as "come" and "place" and "house (our personal one used to tell her to go to her crate).
She is smart as hell, but absolutely independent and stubborn. She knows what we're asking, but she is reluctant to do anything without a treat on the line. Especially "Come" - that is a huge weakness for her. And as mentioned, I'm not rewarding her for aggressive behaviors.
>>2098117
>>2098099
It's both. The example I was was fear-based aggression. She knows she's in deep shit and she scared. She normally doesn't resource guard unless it's a big treat. Like that Purina Savory canned food we give as treats - that stuff is like crack. She will growl if you touch her back while she's eating it, and snap if you go for a grab. She's fine with all other toys and foods.
Point being, I've seen both in her. Resource guarding is not a common thing, though. The fear aggression is like clockwork. She really doesn't want to be approached when she knows she has done something wrong.
The place that we did the obedience training, ugh, I don't even remember the name. It was in Franklin, TN and had "K-9" in the name. They specialize in training guard dogs.
>>2098117
>Cesar Milan
Is that like a salad or something?
>>2098144
>snap when you go for a grab
t. Another Moron With a Dog
>BUT HE WAS TOTALLY LOVING I JUST DON'T UNDERSTAND WHY HIS UNCHECKED AGGRESSION COULD LEAD TO THIS?????
That'll be you soon.
>>2098147
Oh my, I've been verbally attacked on 4chan. I never thought I'd experience such a thing in this wholesome environment of respect and understanding.
>>2098152
I'm just letting you know that you're a nigger-tier dog owner. The kind of retarded that puts a loaded gun in a infants hands.
Idiots like you are all over the news swearing their dog was just the sweetest little loving angle before it mauled x, y, or z.
You're the dog owning equivalent to 'outdoor' cat owners.
And I hate you.
>>2098144
>She normally doesn't resource guard unless it's a big treat. Like that Purina Savory canned food we give as treats - that stuff is like crack. She will growl if you touch her back while she's eating it, and snap if you go for a grab.
That's your problem. You need to break her of her resource guarding whether it's her favorite treat or not. She knows she can get away with resource guarding her favorite treats, so she's gone into doing it with other stuff.
You need to train her so she doesn't resource guard on anything. Because if she gets a hold of something that can make her seriously ill or hurt her and you need to get it away from her asap, somebody is going to get seriously hurt.
I suggest you find an animal trainer who has better understanding of dogs with more independent personalities and can work the dog to be less fear trained. Not just asking /an/ for suggestions. You need to work with a different professional. Even if she was a small dog she can't be allowed to get away with the behavior. A 150 pound dog? Somebody is going to get seriously injured.
>>2098144
>snap when you go for a grab
YOU SHOULD NOT ALLOW THIS!
When the dog is a pup you should give and take its treats away all the time and get kids to do it also.
You need to get a proffesional in before your dog bites you properly.
>professionally trained
>they specialize in training guard dogs
when will people realize that training is such shit?
regardless, you need to look for a trainer that focuses on rehabilitating aggressive dogs, and not the Cesar Milan way
>>2098233
>Cesar Milan
>there it is again
Is it a salad dressing?
>>2098237
it's a trainer who likes hurting dogs
well OP, as others have said, take her to a professional. as your dog illustrates, dogs, like humans have different personalities and require different approaches. you can't just tell someone what to do, you have to know the dog first
Take her to a behaviourist but in the mean time if she guarding food try this (carefully)
Put down her food and then halfway through distract her with something better before allowing her to go back to eating.
>>2098100
for what? like just cattleproding the motherfucker? wouldn't that just make it worse?
>>2098249
Define: hurting.
>>2098291
using physical punishment and fear to train dogs combined with retarded "pack leader" bullshit. he's a fucking joke in the community, especially with behaviorists
>>2098334
Worked with my dog
>>2098144
Dogs are not stubborn, only poorly trained.
>>2098334
I keep trying to look this 'abuse' up and to my complete lack of surprise I've found nothing that validates the bullshit you just tried to claim. Only some weak shit about a dog attacking a pig and the faggots that got booty-blasted over it (I.E. You).
I bet you don't know this first thing about responsible ownership of dogs.
jesus christ dude its just a pop tart were you that hungry?
>>2098154
There is literally nothing wrong with outdoor cats.
Get a whip and beat the shit out of her with it. This kind of behavior is unacceptable under any circumstances.
>>2098334
But it works tho, and the dogs are happy with it. Plus, i don't see any abuse.
>>2098097
First of all how are you managing you get her into her crate? How does she react when you've crated yet?
Have you tried feeding her by hand? That sends the message that you provide her meals
>>2098097
>You can't reach in and drag them out or you lose an arm.
Then you should not own that dog. It's incompatible with you.
Take it outside and shoot it before it hurts someone or give it to someone who can handle it.
>>2098334
The community is a fucking joke comprised of people who treat dogs like people and ignore several hundreds of years of effect training techniques because they deem them to be mean.
>>2098915
>several hundreds of years of effect training techniques
yeah all those super effective rennaissance dog trainers we know of.
actually, you realize dogs weren't kept as pets by normal people until the early 20th century, right?
>>2098917
Europe isn't the world.
>>2098628
Not that anon, but there's literally everything wrong with outdoor cats
>>2098899
Be reasonable, anon, have a polite conversation with a dog about it's behavior. Squirt it with water. Put dishes on the furniture.
>>2098628
>I want a pet!
>promptly leaves it outside for the rest of its life
I don't understand cat-people. How do they consider themselves responsible pet owners by doing this? Better yet, why do they get assblasted when Mittens shows up on the patio doing the Drank Too Much Anti-Freeze dance?
People kill cats for giggle>I want a pet!
>promptly leaves it outside for the rest of its life
I don't understand cat-people. How do they consider themselves responsible pet owners by doing this? Better yet, why do they get assblasted when Mittens shows up on the patio doing the Drank Too Much Anti-Freeze dance?
People kill stray cats for giggles, anon, and they won't differentiate between your beloved Mittens and the next stray... stop leaving them outside.
>>2099307
>tfw copy and paste goes wrong
>>2098392
bullshit
>>2099426
I'm sorry that your dog is poorly trained.
>>2099431
you legitimately think that different dogs don't have different personalities? i want normalfags to get off my board
>>2099432
Dogs have plenty personalities. Stubborn dogs are still only poorly trained dogs.
This thread is crazy. It's all the idiots of /an/ merged into one thread, made 35 irate posts about varying trivial topics with escalating hostility, and not a single person answered the question. This is /an/ in a nutshell. Not a single person wanting to help, only rant and insult. And the few that do, don't have the knowledge to help. This is why no one takes /an/ seriously as a source of anything constructive. Pretty much every post in this thread is wrong about something.
>>2099443
Oh, and just to clarify, the person asked how to handle a good dog that is being defiant without risking injury and without using positive reinforcement
The correct answer is to get close to the dog, 2 feet or less, tense up your muscles and do your best to feel like king of the fucking mountain. Do not talk. Do not look angry. Do not stare them down. Tighten your fists, puff out your chests, block their path if they try to move, and use body language to tell them you're the fucking man and you've had enough of their shit. The dog will eventually lower its tail, and even lay down if you wait long enough. This is de-escalating the situation and keeps you in control so they know they didn't win.
Fucking /an/ tards.
>>2099443
This is why I'm here desu
>>2098917
>actually, you realize dogs weren't kept as pets by normal people until the early 20th century, right?
You do realize the people who did keep them as working animals trained them yes?
>>2099443
>not a single person answered the question
I did. If OP can't handle his dog he should get rid of it either by shooting it or giving it away (not sure who would want an ill tempered lsg, perhaps it would be more pleasant to sheep). A dog which is aggressive to it's owner is less than worthless, it's a mauled child waiting to happen.
>>2099446
>spouts bullshit about /an/ sucking
>his own advice is terrible
Pot calling the nigger black much.
>>2099554
Really? I mean, really? This is a prime example of /an/ retardation.
The method to safely assert your authority and de-escalate the situation at the same time is highly recommended by canine behavior specialists. You do not let a dog flee or they learn that's how they get away. You calmly walk after them, let them back themselves into a corner or otherwise stop running, then stand your ground without showing anger or aggression, only power and dominance. You just stand there and let them know you're not scared of them and you're not leaving. They remit and submit after a few minutes.
That is how you safely get a situation (like OP described) under control without reinforcing negative behavior. You're actually building a healthy dialogue with the dog and earning respect.
Anyone that says OP's dog should be put down or something retarded didn't read OP's post. The dog is fine, just gets defiant when it knows its in trouble and OP was scared his wife would get bit. The dog has zero aggression in its past.
I mean, really guys, with so many "animal experts" on this board, you'd think someone would offer some encouragement instead of just moronic flaming at the details.
>>2099562
>dominance
>backing a dog into a corner
Nice, best way to get rid of shit tier /an/ owners.
>>2098144
>Especially "Come" - that is a huge weakness for her. And as mentioned, I'm not rewarding her for aggressive behaviors.
Personally, I don't think asking her to come while she's hiding/growling, then rewarding her would be rewarding the aggression. You would instead be rewarding her interruption of the aggression and her coming when called.
If you can get her to respond to commands when she's in the state of being aggressive, that's great. It breaks her from her focus on her fear or resource guarding and causes her to instead refocus on the task at hand, and then she learns that listening to you = good things.
There's no point in dragging her out from under the table or further antagonizing or scaring her. This accomplishes nothing except to increase or reinforce her fear, which in turn will only end up making the aggression worse.
If you can't get her to come out when called, you could just stand there. Don't aggress on her but don't walk away either. This way you show her that you're not a threat to her, but also that her behavior is not effective in getting what she wants. Just stand there and wait for her to chill out.
Overall? Work on "drop it," "leave it," and "come" some more. Use high value rewards for these commands because they are very important.
And work on the resource guarding, too. Try the "trade up" game--ask her to drop what she has and offer her something of greater value. Repeat this many times until you can get her to give you whatever she has without you directly offering a trade, then reward heavily. This way she doesn't feel that letting you take things from her means she loses things.
>>2098097
It's testing boundaries, quickly dominate it.
>>2099307
This
Anything can happen to your cat if you leave it outdoors
It can get sick, eaten, hit by a car, killed for fun, hurt or injured
Someone can think it's lost and decide to adopt it
And it can also become mother/father to kittens that won't be able to get homes
I don't understand when people have outdoor cats and then go "oh noes mr fluffy ran awayy:(((" or "omg he got hit by a car whyyy"
What did you expect?
Id be scared to death if I kmew my cat was running around outside without any supervision
>>2098144
>>2098144
You said she was trained? But she doesn't follow commands, even just come? Her "weakness" is the most basic and necessary command? That is not just personality, that's a result of inconsistent training. And most dogs are intelligent enough to understand commands pretty quickly, the whole fucking point of training is that they OBEY them.
>>2099764
Simpler way to go about it is to teach that giving master something is great and a reward in it's own. Dogs like to feel good by proxy, I imagine op takes the poptart back and stays fearful like a lil bitch when in reality all the dog needs to see is how happy he is when he has one. Dog should bring you poptarts desu.
