dear /an/,
I am a relatively new poster, but I've quickly realized my parents might be doing something fundamentally wrong.
We have had three cats now. Our oldest cat lived as long as twenty (!) years. Even from early days on we have always allowed our cats to go outside, we have a huge garden, we live next to a road that isn't very busy and a forest that is just thirty meters away.
I realize cats are in invasive species and kill local species of birds for example, but take into consideration that this area where I live used to have very high population of wild cats only a hundred years ago and they're all dead now.
What are the most striking arguments for not letting your cat go outside? I should mention that all our cats had been sterilized. please no meme spamming and no, this is not a bait thread, I'm actually new to this board and have never in my life encountered this sentiment of not letting cats go outside. All our cats were from farmers, only the one that managed to live up to twenty wasn't, the owner was abusing her so my parents took her away.
I am always of the 'keep it in your own yard' mentality when it comes to pets. Keep your dog in your own yard, keep your cat in your own yard. If you have neighbors who dont mind your cat going over and sitting on their lawn then that's cool, but you shouldnt risk your pet by letting them roam two blocks down into random backyards where they could be unwanted. People pay for their rent/homes and they have a right to not want your animals on their property.
Letting animals go off in fields or forests is another thing that is risky.... if it's yours they could still be killed by predators or hurt by diseases or even people coming onto your property illegally. If it's owned by someone else the animal could very well be caught in a trap or picked off by the person with a gun.
Not everyone can have a fence and fences are harder to cat-proof, but no matter what animal you have you can always harness and leash train it.
You dont know if a cat is just going to stick to the yard or if it will go further. Train the cat to stay in the yard off leash, train it to go out on a leash, or have an enclosure that is cat proof. Anything else is on your own head.
If you can't let your cat outside, do not get one. If you can but do not, kill yourself, they need exercise, and naturally are outside, My cats have lived to twenty when allowed to live outside in the country their whole life. Not allowing them outside should be considered neglect.
I worked at a lumber yard when I was younger. We would set live traps when we'd have raccoon problems. Occasionally we would catch a cat in the trap. It was handled the same way as a raccoon. Keep your shit cats inside, you shit owners.
>>2012155
>>2012154
>I am always of the 'keep it in your own yard' mentality when it comes to pets. Keep your dog in your own yard, keep your cat in your own yard. If you have neighbors who dont mind your cat going over and sitting on their lawn then that's cool, but you shouldnt risk your pet by letting them roam two blocks down into random backyards where they could be unwanted. People pay for their rent/homes and they have a right to not want your animals on their property.
this I can agree with. If I had my own cat I would certainly go around the neighborhood and ask if it was okay to let it roam.
>Letting animals go off in fields or forests is another thing that is risky.... if it's yours they could still be killed by predators or hurt by diseases or even people coming onto your property illegally. If it's owned by someone else the animal could very well be caught in a trap
those dangers are very much real, don't forget roads and cars
>or picked off by the person with a gun.
I refuse to believe this happens in the civilized world (fuck burgerland)
>You dont know if a cat is just going to stick to the yard or if it will go further. Train the cat to stay in the yard off leash, train it to go out on a leash, or have an enclosure that is cat proof. Anything else is on your own head.
alright, thanks for the elaborate post
>>2012155
>>2012157
thanks for these useless posts, much appreciated
>>2012147
cars
In this case there is a somewhat mitigated risk with the road not being too close and whatnot but the most compelling argument is that there are still a million things that could happen to the cat. Even if there aren't too many predators, one could absolutely still show up and eat your cat. A roaming dog could kill it. It still might wander as far as the road. It might become injured and not be able to return home and die a horrible lingering death. The cat might wander onto someone's property and that person could be any kind of cat killing maniac. The cat could get poisoned unintentionally or intentionally...
The list goes on. Anecdotally, plenty of cats with access to the outdoors make it to an okay age. Statistically, they die very young. It really depends on if you're okay with the risk and if/when it happens you won't care.
That and even though your area used to have a huge cat population doesn't mean you should just keep shitting on it forever on principle. If those cats are gone it's a good time for the local ecosystem to recover and recent research shows that even one cat can have extremely high kill counts. But I guess that one is down to your own morals.
To me, the compelling argument is that it's my cat, my responsibility, and I would feel like a shit person to just hope for the best when there is so much that could go bad. I've had outdoor cats when I lived with my parents and often everything was great for a long time until suddenly it wasn't. Just a week ago some jackhole swerved to hit my grandpas indoor outdoor cat. You can't control all the crazy out there.
>>2012173
thanks for this elaborate reply. I agree with all of your points and am really conflicted about how I want to handle my cat when I can finally have one.
just one gripe:
>If those cats are gone it's a good time for the local ecosystem to recover
when a predator falls out of a system completely can you really call it "recover"? I mean aren't predators just as essential as other populations, seeing as they keep things like vermin low, which in turn might be neccessary for certain insects that get eaten by vermin (just a stupid example)
>You can't control all the crazy out there.
very much true.
>>2012193
Cats aren't a natural predator in any ecosystem. They disrupt them, not keep them balanced.
>>2012194
I was talking about wildcats, sadly they all got killed off in the area I live (southern Germany). They are recovering now, slowly.
>>2012196
we had a big lynx population in the spessart just 200 years ago
>>2012147
Honestly OP, as long as your family understands the risks (disease, injury, gettin' ate in the woods) and is willing to pay for vet visits when your cats get fucked up, and if your cats are fixed, then I think it's your perogative to let them outside. Cats love it, but just know that cats can live perfectly happy lives indoors as well. If you were in an urban area however, you should definitely keep them inside. But you're not, so it's your choice.
>>2012193
Remember, house cats aren't killing to eat and survive, they kill for sport. As a result, they kill many, many more animals than would be otherwise beneficial to the ecosystem.
>>2012193
There are many creatures that are threatened because of cats but not extinct and in that case so long as a breeding population remained, it could recover. Additionally stopping shitting all over the local ecosystem with an invasive and unnatural predator who kills for sport will prevent other species from becoming more marginalized.
I mean I absolutely would agree that your one cat isn't going to make or break anything. Cats kill a lot and indiscriminately but it is one cat. It's just that that kind of thinking "it's okay if my cat goes out because the ecosystem is already fucked and it's just one cat" leads to everybody letting their "only one" cat out and there and then suddenly there is a cat problem.
I guess that point is on if you care about stuff like that. I do at least somewhat. But like I originally said the more pressing concern for me would be my cats safety because I'm a self centered person who only cares moderately about environmental concerns.
And no prob, I have turned this over in my mind a lot too. Like I said I grew up with indoor/outdoor cats and they had a lot of fun outside but several met grisly premature and totally unexpected ends. So I felt conflicted to but as I found out owning my own cats it's perfectly possible and even quite easy to keep them busy indoors.
