My boyfriend is an incredible guy and gives me everything I need, and more. He's incredibly respectful, reasonable, never gets angry when we have small arguments, thoughtful and sweet. I want to marry him. He would make a great father.
One thing that annoys me a little though, is that he's so apologetic for being a man. I want him to feel welcome to take my clothes off and have sex with me whenever HE wants, but he almost always waits for me to initiate. I want him to come home every day and eat the dinner I made him without treating it like I've done some incredible thing that he has to pay me back for. I want him to be okay with me cleaning the house every now and again and not apologize so much when I pick his clothes up or wash his laundry. Fuck, I want him to stop worrying about MY orgasm so much when we have sex so he can just enjoy himself and be done when he's done every once in a while. A lot of the time when I ask him what he wants me to cook, he'll say "You don't have to do that" even though I've told him it makes me feel great to cook for him.
I know that these things are rooted in respect for me, and I have no idea what to do. I can't be mad at him -- He's been poisoned to actually believe that women don't really enjoy sex as much as men, so he never explicitly asks for it (or aggressively takes me, for the matter). He actually feels like I get fed up with cooking for him, like it's some horrible chore.
Let me be clear -- It's not a confidence issue, or lack of sex drive, or that he doesn't like my cooking. He just hates to inconvenience me, and it's gotten to the point where I'm actually starting to feel bad that he feels this way.
>>17219110
Or you could accept that he doesn't believe in traditional gender roles and respect his right to an opinion, you dumb bitch.
>>17219110
does he personally identify as a feminist? if so, how actively does he propagate these ideas?
>>17219110
Can I have your boyfriend? Lol
In all seriousness communication is your best option. Talk to him about it.
>>17219115
Fuck off, feminazi.
>>17219117
No, he doesn't. We both have a pretty conservative view on women's rights and feminazi bullshit, but he grew up with a single mom, and she jokes a lot about how penises are gross and naked men aren't nice to look at. Couple that with the bullshit you see on TV with women GIVING their men sex like it's some sort of sick currency, and you've got a guy who feels uncomfortable being horny and wanting to have sex.
>>17219120
>In all seriousness communication is your best option. Talk to him about it.
The thing is that I have. We've talked so many times about traditional gender roles, and he's always said he loves the idea of it, but it's like he just can't comprehend that I want to cook, clean, and be his pregnant, barefoot housewife. Don't get me wrong, I love what we have now, but I think it would make things easier for the both of us if he just took some things for granted, for lack of a better term.
>>17219110
I can recommend you getting the book "No Mr. More nice Guy" for your bf. There it is explained why his behaviour can be toxic and how to change it.
>>17219165
fuck, "No more mr. nice guy" by Glover
>>17219155
is he confident? or does he tend to be on the shyer side?
>>17219155
>but he grew up with a single mom
I knew this as I started reading OP. She has filled his head with shit and tried to make him be the perfect man but in the process took his balls
>>17219181
>Let me be clear -- It's not a confidence issue
tfw /adv/ still can't read
>has the perfect boyfriend
>bitches about it
For fuck's sake, just tell him what you want. Be direct, don't bring it up as a general discussion; make it clear that you're talking specifically about your relationship. Say, "It would really make me happy if you were more aggressive in bed" or "I like that you appreciate my cooking, but it's really not a big deal."
I know men usually hate these words, but just tell him "we need to talk" and lay it all out. Reassure him that you're not mad about it, that you know he's just being respectful, but you'd be happier if you both took on more traditional roles without all the gratitude and the guilt, and that you want him to enjoy it, too. Make sure he knows that you love him and are happy with him, you just want to try a more traditional dynamic.
This isn't something you can be really subtle about, because he's not doing anything wrong and has no reason to change on his own.
>>17219168
Thanks, I'll look into that.
>>17219181
You know, it's strange, in most areas, he seems VERY confident. He can take the lead with a lot of things and he's always seemed like it's natural for him, but when it comes specifically to me going out of my way for him, he suddenly wants to go the extra mile so I never have to get up.
He NEVER seems shy though. When I initiate sex, he doesn't go "I-If you want..". He jumps right in. It's almost like when a dog looks to you for permission to eat a snack. As soon as you say yes, it's all excitement and enthusiasm. If I never asked him what he wants me to cook for him, I'd think he was never hungry. If I never initiated sex, I'd think he had a ridiculously low sex drive (definitely not the case).
>>17219183
What is it going to take to undo that? Do you think he's just hard-wired to think that it's a chore for me to take care of him?
>>17219198
His mother has told him what bad men are like and he has tried to be the opposite and in turn she fucked him up. You have to make him understand that this is unhealthy. When you point out each individual thing that he does that bothers you, explain why it is unhealthy for the relationship. Then, whenever he does these things, point them out so he can be aware and correct his behavior. eventually he will be able to catch himself in the act and stop himself. and after that he wont even have an issue with these things. you just have to be persistent.
why always when woman describe man she is saying giving me everything i want. I so fucking hate woman
>>17219198
he is hardwired but you could chip away gradually. How about making a deal on one thing that you get to do for him and he has to accept. Forget about all the other things or even why he's like this. Get right to the doing.
>>17219196
>bitches about it
I'm not just complaining, though. I feel awful that he doesn't really understand how much I love taking care of him. These are just a few examples. He always jumps up and does the dishes, he holds my purse when we go out, he never lets me be the one to throw trash away when we're having a picnic, etc. He is like the physical embodiment of chivalry and he never asks for anything in return. Especially when it comes to sex, I can't believe how much patience and self-control he must have to really wait for me all the time. This issue is partially a selfish thing because it's starting to make ME feel guilty, but it's mostly that I can't even imagine what his world must be like, feeling like the responsibility is all on him and being guilty whenever he legitimately wants something from me.
And I have brought it up the way you talk about it. And he apologizes saying that he's never perfectly sure that I'm in the mood and that he doesn't want to bother me.
>>17219115
Now there's one for /s4s/.
>>17219217
I can relate to now knowing whether my partner is in the mood.
I've been accused of thinking of nothing but sex in the past for attempting to initiate, and it hurt quite a bit. Maybe it was just a projection of stress from somewhere else, but hearing that from somebody you love just makes you feel like shit. It makes it feel like everything you've done is just invalidated.
That's pretty much why I don't engage with my partner anymore. Going without is easier than having to suffer such accusations, and if they don't want it, I don't want to just project my desires onto them either.
>>17219110
>I know that these things are rooted in respect for me
Not really. They're rooted in condescension and/or fear. You don't tell someone they made a great poopy on the potty because you respect them.
I'm not saying he's intentionally being a jerk at all, but he's not being a saint for this kinda crap.
>>17219198
>If I never asked him what he wants me to cook for him, I'd think he was never hungry
Does he not know how to feed himself?
>>17219217
>He is like the physical embodiment of chivalry
You realise that's the opposite of being a feminist, right?
>>17219230
This is what's wrong with the world.
>>17219209
We've actually done that a couple times before, but it didn't stick. Probably because it happened under extenuating circumstances, like one time I made him promise that he HAS to take me whenever he wants me when we were on vacation. It was actually the most sex we've ever had in 2 weeks, and it was great. I think the only reason it was so easy to get him on board with it is because 1. vacation is such a nice, light-hearted time, he wouldn't have to worry about me being in a sour mood and 2. he probably figured that 2 weeks was a short amount of time and perhaps I just "committed to being in the mood" as a gift for him. I don't know.
>>17219213
I like this idea. Thank you.
>>17219228
That really sounds awful, I'm sorry to hear that anon. Could you tell me more? From what I've said here, do you relate to my boyfriend on more terms than just knowing if your woman is in the mood? Do you feel guilt for wanting sex, or does the guilt come solely from her?
>>17219217
yeah I've got those problems. idk I'd say that having a gf like you would go a long way to starting to fix that. like just a generally healthy relationship. I think, I haven't been there so idk.
lucky guy, my last gf hated men. go figure what the fuck she was thinking getting with one. I found out too late. she cooked once a month and bitched to herself under her breath that I was an oppressive asshole and broke shit. yeah.
>>17219230
>he's not being a saint for this kinda crap.
Why not? I'd say it's pretty clear that he leads the relationship as a strong, capable and confident man -- I would be blown away to learn that there's a condescension or fear aspect to our relationship whatsoever, and I'd be even more blown away to learn that between the two of us, it was on his part.
By all accounts, our relationship is exactly what I always hoped for when I was younger, except for the fact that he's just too damn thoughtful. And whenever I confront him and ask him why he's so reluctant, the answers have always aligned with "I don't want you to have to work", "I don't want to bother you". It might sound stupid and corny to say that he does almost everything with love, but by God, sometimes I get the feeling he worships me or something.
>>17219240
What I meant was "hungry" in a sort of reliant way. He NEVER actually asks me to cook, but he's definitely not shy about which of my dishes he loves, and he certainly eats like the hungry man he is when he gets home from work.
>>17219246
Yes, obviously. I'm talking about this sort of bullshit feminazi view where ONLY women should decide when, where and how often sex happens. I'm fine with initiating, and I love that he respects my space, but I want him to have what he wants and stop being unfulfilled. We have sex 4-5 times a week most of the time, and it's always very enthusiastic and fun. It doesn't really add up to his reluctance to "force" me to have sex with him.
>>17219228
>I've been accused of thinking of nothing but sex in the past for attempting to initiate, and it hurt quite a bit
yeah...
>sex once a month
>"you think we could have sex more often?"
>"yeah I want to have more sex"
>"we don't have more sex"
>"hey you remember when we talked about having more sex, well I've noticed we're about the same, what's up?"
>"you only ever think about sex and only want to be with me for sex!"
bad times. if I was really just in it for sex, I don't need to be in a relationship. the amount of sex I've turned down in my life through a mix of not wanting to be disrespectful cause we're not together and whatever other bullshit I can't remember now is downright retarded in hindsight. not my main motivator. yeah, that type of thing hurts pretty bad.
>>17219196
>I know men usually hate these words, but just tell him "we need to talk" and lay it all out.
We don't hate those words... we hate all the bullshit that comes with them.
>We need to talk. I did something stupid and cheated on you.
>We need to talk. I'm going to unearth some of your old past mistakes you already apologized a thousand times.
>We need to talk. I'm bored with our relationship.
etc.
OP, do NOT start with those words... try something like "hey, do you have some time?" and then talk.
Same as >>17219316
If you're going to complain at his behaviour, be succinct. When a woman repeats over and over and over again and tells all the background story and her fears and all that bullshit only to criticize one behaviour, it sounds more like "this talk is the way she found to punish me. Fuck."
Just: "hey, I love the fact you respect me, but STOP BEING SO APOLOGETIC". Then let him talk, and begin by that.
>>17219316
not once in almost 3 decades of living has "we need to talk" been followed by anything good. not once.
seriously some conditioning you don't want to kick off a conversation with.
>>17219254
I guess I hadn't really noticed, but I suppose I am ultimately the same way for the most part.
Some of it might come down to just not wanting to inconvenience my partner, while doing things for them is my way of showing my appreciation for them. Obviously there is a fallacy there, but I still feel bad. I don't just want to sit back and watch them do something for me, it makes me start to feel like I don't deserve it. Doing things for them is just like another way of showing affection, so it's as natural as anything else I do.
The guilt isn't entirely from her. Again, it's sort of a fallacy. I don't want to put her in a position where she's uncomfortable, but as a result of that, it make end up making her feel more uncomfortable/undesirable. Ideally, things aren't always like this. If I can tell she's in the mood, then I'll make a move and see how she responds, but if I don't receive any indications, then I try not to push. I don't want my desires to be a burden, but I suppose ultimately that's probably not healthy for a relationship.
Perhaps it is fear. I don't want the person I hold so dearly to come to resent me due to something so insignificant.
In the end though, I just want her to be happy, and I want to see her smile.
>>17219196
As a man i instinctely and usually stop listening when I hear those words, "we need to talk"
>>17219287
He sounds pussy whipped. Give him time. Don't be just his girlfriend, be also his friend who he can trust. Get closer to him emotionally, let him see you not just as a "woman" but also as a human being who he can relate to, unlike his bitch mother. As soon as he realizes this that women aren't hissy sensitive princesses who want slaves and utmost respect for nothing, he will realize how big bs he was fed and start living his life and loving you, not just when you sign a contract that you allow him to.
>>17219287
>Why not?
Because having someone acting like the things you enjoy are a chore because he doesn't trust you when you say you enjoy them, and forcing you to initiate everything because he's too scared of bothering you and doesn't seem to realise he's in a relationship with you, sounds annoying as ungodly fuck.
Treating someone like an object of worship whose wants and needs are presumed to conform to or against a stereotype, rather than treating them as a human being and individual, is not an admirable quality. He sounds like a faggot.
You sound like a couple of toddlers who haven't decided which one is playing the mommy.
>I get the feeling he worships me or something.
That's not healthy.
>>17219291
Well why did you just talk about it over and over? That aint sexy. Romance the bitch.
>>17219287
Damned if you do, damned if you don't.
>>17219110
Your bf is just a beta lad, from the bottom of the beta spectrum. No insult intended, this is just a fact.
It's not about him living in a feminazi world, it's just how he is.
You either learn to love him for the apologist beta he is, or try to find a "more male" partner.
The worst thing you could do is try to change him. No beta can pretend to be an alpha, it's just too much pressure and it requires a great deal of authority and confidence.
