is Shinji literally the dumbest hero off all time?
No, Shinji is not a hero its a pussy
>>143803712
No, he's just bland and boring. His archetype has been done better and in less pretentious series. Without all the needless visual wankery which the creator admitted didn't even mean anything. Eva was so trash.
I don't know man, that's a lot of competition for that title.
>>143803712
No, he's just gay.
He's not stupid, but he is a coward, ruled by his own fear.
>>143803712
no he is best girl
>>143803764
>No, he's just bland and boring.
Agreed but if you think Shinji was bland just take a look at Rei.
>>143803968
Eva doesn't have characters, so much as forced archetypes
>>143803975
Yeah its kinda cringe. Misato is the only person in the show that shows some personality.
>>143803916
>He's not stupid, but he is a coward, ruled by his own fear.
he is fucking stupid. Hes the one that started 3rd impact twice in a row. his only worthwhile question is why he Pilots the Eva which he states is to please the dad that he hates.
>>143804163
Are you stupid? He doesn't hate his dad. If his dad stated giving him attention he would be happy, that or not know how to handle it.
The issue here is that the characters in the show actually act like real people, feeling and saying and doing all at the same time, which is too much for some of you to handle.
He's 14.
>>143804551
>the characters in the show actually act like real people
kek
>>143803764
>"creator admitted didn't even mean anything"
>actually thinking that matters
>>143804628
We can talk death of the author all day, but you can project meaning onto just about anything. If there's no intent, what makes a work special?
>>143804586
By that I don't mean that their actions themselves are realistic, but their way of going about them is.
>>143803934
Yeah, Shinji best girl!
>>143804551
>The issue here is that the characters in the show actually act like real people, feeling and saying and doing all at the same time
>>143804663
1) The only thing they said had no meaning, which is taken out of context and repeated to the point that it's also meaningless, was the religious imagery. It is not hard to project meaning onto religious imagery.
2) Outside of all that there was intent to write, animate, direct, etc, a show.
>>143804551
>act like real people
>in a show where only kids can pilot giant organic mechs to fight aliens
Nah. I ain't buying this realistic shit
>>143803712
>hero
>>143804807
>2) Outside of all that there was intent to write, animate, direct, etc, a show.
This is such useless thing to say, especially within the context of the conversation. Intended meaning is what we're talking about, and that's what you have to justify.
>>143804628
im pretty sure the creator didnt want to upset some people or be accused of blasphemy so he just let people decide what all of the imagery means. If i recall the show was suspended and almost pulled from air in Japan.
>>143804551
>He doesn't hate his dad
He says he hates his dad outright in the show.
>>143804719
And that's what I'm laughing at. No one in Eva acts like a real person would in that situation, and that's what it's always praised for. It's completely ridiculous. Go read about child soldiers to get a real taste for what the show should have been like.
>>143804663
how about what it means to you?
ya know, the whole point of art in our lives ?
>>143804881
Yeah, but if you bring up the "it's meaningless quote" the only thing that applies to is the religious stiff. Not, you know, anything else. So you can't use that as a jumping point to say "therefore the show is meaningless as a whole and has zero intent and isn't special."
Came into this thread expecting Subaru to be first. Good job /a/.
>>143804923
Then you forfeit all rights to objective criticism. You can never justifiably critique anything, merely describe how it made you feel, which isn't useful to anyone else.
>>143804912
What do you think should have been different?
>>143804935
You're the one arguing that meaning exists. Burden of proof is on you.
>>143804912
I'm not saying they act like real people. I'm saying the manner in which their actions manifest is like real people. Take >>143804891 for example. He says he hates his sad. But he doesn't. He wants his dad to pay attention to him. What he says and what he feels aren't always the same, but they inform each other, and that's what's realistic about it.
>>143804923
not sure why people so vehemently stick to this stupid theory given by one of annos yesman in a jap interview hella years ago. its liike you're looking for an excuse to dismiss the show despite the fact it obviously meant something to a lot of people and is still discussed 20 years after its debut.
>>143804719
How do you know how people would act in those kind of situations if nothing comparable to those situations even exist in the real world?
>>143805018
That's a very low bar for realism
>>143804946
Nobody gives a fuck about a generic flavor of the month faggot like Subaru. Fuck off with that shit.
>>143804982
No, you made a claim that no meaning exists based on a quote you took out of context. That has been proven wrong, and there's no real evidence to suggest there wasn't meaning intended. I don't think there's any strong burden of proof required in either direction, I generally think its safe to assume that people who make art intend the viewer to take meaning from it, even if they don't explicitly state what meaning was intended.
>>143804011
>cringe
Just leave.
>>143805039
its a cartoon
>>143805018
>He says he hates his sad. But he doesn't.
Yes he does hate him. You can want someone you hate to pay attention to you, dumbass.
Asuka for example hates a lot of people, but she still wants them to pay attention to her and validate her existence.
Likewise Shinji wants Gendo to validate his existence, but he still hates him for abandoning him and he says he hates him in the show. He's genuine about it.
>>143805039
That's a different point entirely. In most shows you get maybe one and a half of those dimensions, and never done well.
>>143805075
Damn son, you don't know shit about rhetoric. By stating that something exists, you take on the burden of proof.
>>143805083
plebbit detected
he's an absolute legend and maybe the best anime.
>>143805107
People saying and thinking different things is the main crux of the most low brow possible character drama. There's nothing special about the way people act in Eva.
>>143805075
>I generally think its safe to assume that people who make art intend the viewer to take meaning from it, even if they don't explicitly state what meaning was intended.
Unfortunately its hard for people with autism to comprehend this, but this is the truest statement made so far.
>>143805088
Asuka doesn't actually hate anyone, besides maybe herself.
>>143805018
>He says he hates his sad. But he doesn't. He wants his dad to pay attention to him
your putting the Chicken before the Egg m8
>>143805168
She hates almost everyone, especially herself.
>>143805111
Nothing is being definitively proven here. This conversation changes nothing. It doesn't matter if he can prove it to you or not.
>>143805163
The question is how much of the much vaunted symbolism has meaning, and how much is just to look cool. A lack of intention is one of the most common mistakes made by young creators.
>>143805111
Not necessarily. I think we have a special case here due to the somewhat nebulous nature of art and the fact that artists tend not to explicitly state their intention as part of art is teasing out what was meant from the work itself.
>>143805168
>Asuka doesn't actually hate anyone, besides maybe herself.
this. Asuka is the most insecure character even more then Shinji. Shinji is just introvert but she is extrovert
>>143805223
Yes, necessarily. We're not talking art, we're talking Rhetoric 101. If you assert a positive, you have to back it up with evidence.
>>143805133
Your not supposed to leave that space open newfriend.
>>143805216
Well obviously, in this case, it was not a mistake.
>>143805269
>t. my ass
>>143805262
what?
>>143805260
No he doesn't.
>>143805292
You are correct, he doesn't have to do anything. He can leave at any time without backing up any of his assertions
>>143805160
Well that's just your opinion.
>>143803764
Shinji, Asuka and misato were pretty good characters. Just because an archetype is there doesn't make them bad, actually judge the show on how it's used in the show.
>>143805280
And yours too, because we're still fucking sitting here talking about it.
>>143805216
Again, it doesn't matter. You don't need to know the inner workings of an artists mind or their detailed motivations for creating something to be able to draw from it your own meaning. You literally will never appreciate art until you accept this.
This is also the reason why you will never see a compendium pamphlet next to each painting of Picasso in the museum stating that "well this doesn't mean anything, i was just bored today lol! -PICASSO "
>>143805329
It's not an opinion to say that you can find the same level of character drama in low-grade shoujo as in Eva, it's demonstrable fact.
>>143805216
He really wasn't that young at the time. He was 36 when he made NGE and already had a pretty large portfolio.
>>143805260
Fine then, I'm not asserting a positive anyway. I'm really just saying it's not accurate to assume there was no intended meaning. There's nothing to suggest that.
>>143805365
I'm going to guess that you actually don't have any formal training in Art History or Literary Critique, because this isn't even a good argument for death of the author. It's just ignorance.
>>143805366
The difference is that one does it well, and the other doesn't.
I'm not talking about, "I love her, but I can't tell her, so I'll tell her to leave me alone."
>>143805386
Fair enough, as long as you aren't asserting that there is any meaning.
>>143805417
No, you're talking about, "I love him, but I can't tell him, so I'll tell him I hate him"
Amazing.
>>143805391
It's pretty ignorant to repeat a quote from years ago out of context too.
>>143805366
Demonstrate it then.
>>143805419
No, I can still assert that there is meaning, I simply can't prove that said meaning is intentionally put there by a creator, though there is evidence that that is the case.
>>143805447
If that was how simple any of the character relationships were, you'd have a point.
>>143805467
>No, I can still assert that there is meaning, I simply can't prove that said meaning is intentionally put there by a creator, though there is evidence that that is the case.
This sentence is a mess of self-contradiction
>>143805490
He can say his opinion is that there is meaning. This us unassailable.
He can't prove, and neither can you, what the original author intended.
There is evidence we can look at to guess, though.
>>143805458
I've never quoted that actually. I just come into these threads hoping to find people who can really defend Eva, but it's usually pretty rare. Daikon IV has much better defenders.
>>143805228
Insecure people tend to hate others more than confident people, you idiot.
>>143805556
That sounds like a fucking terrible hobby. What is there to defend against in the case of the latter?
>>143805531
No, I get what he's saying. The problem is saying that he can't prove intentional meaning, and following that up by saying there's proof of intentional meaning. It's contradictory, and clearly both of you believe that you can prove intentional meaning. Which I'd be glad to see.
>>143805483
They're pretty fucking basic, m8.
>>143804952
>Then you forfeit all rights to objective criticism.
Even assuming that objective criticism actually exists, what's so bad in relating how you resonated with a work, and why would that cause you to forfeit rights to criticism? You can justify how it made you feel and the why of that sentiment is valuable in the larger context of the overall progression of art. Debating authorial intent on the other hand is pointless; understanding the blue prints of a work may make it seem more or less impressive, but to place quality as a priority of that over your own feelings is to be disingenuous with your opinions.
>>143805587
There's proof that leads him to believe there's intentional meaning. Just because he's saying something doesn't mean he's positing it as undeniable fact or warrant you coming in and saying "prove it" to every opinion.
>>143805579
That it's pure style and no substance, relying entirely on references for the love it gets.
>>143805640
I don't see how any of that could possibly be construed as a negative thing in this context.
>>143805635
If you're not willing to back it up, what's the point of saying it? Go hang in a comfy waifu thread if you want to get by with that lackluster level of posting.
>>143805490
"Assert" might be the wrong word, perhaps suggest is better. But you're asking me to prove beyond a shadow of a doubt that there is meaning, and that is simply impossible. But that isn't evidence that the opposite, that there is no meaning, is true. You're going through a rhetorical roundabout that ultimately doesn't matter because we aren't dealing in hard proofs or distinct facts. We're just guessing and throwing out ideas, and trying to figure out which ones seem more reasonable.
>>143805556
It tends to be easier to defend a music video/promotion than a 26 episode series.
>>143805640
Which would explain why tons of people who've never seen the works it references love it so much.
>>143805670
No one believes that their favorite piece of revolutionary animation is devoid of meaning, and they will always get mad at you for saying it is.
see>>143805697
>>143805684
You're asking for a standard of proof that is impossible to breach.
>>143805697
>We're just guessing and throwing out ideas, and trying to figure out which ones seem more reasonable.
Sure, but you're not presenting evidence at all, just saying that it exists as though that's a given.
>>143805726
I've set no standard of proof at all. Nothing has been offered up as proof that Eva has any deeper meaning whatsoever. The one person in this thread who has bothered to give evidence for why it is good praised its character relationships.
>>143805713
I'm not angry, I just don't understand what you want or why you want it. Do you only enjoy art that comes with a handbook or notations from the author explaining everything that was intended by the creator?
>>143805684
Just because his (or anyone else's) opinion doesn't hinge on your approval doesn't mean he shouldn't say them, especially in a thread asking for that very opinion. I'm not saying these topics shouldn't be up for conversation, but pointing out the literary techniques people are using in lieu of an actually argument is just as pointless as anything.
>>143805771
No evidence is required. If your next line is, "then where's the conversation!" start a better fucking one than this.
>>143805771
Yeah, that's because you wrapped me into this dumb rhetorical argument. If you just want to know why I like the show, I can try to explain that easily enough. But if that's what you want just be clear about it, don't get wrapped up in this idiocy.
>>143804912
How old are you? Seriously your an idiot, there is a huge difference in a child soldier and a kid rased in a good city that was forced to go fight giant aliens. Have you honestly ever talked or met real people? Guess what people in reality break easily and freak out turning and turn selfish. If i went to a grown ass aldult right now and said, "hey your going to war now" and then sent him to war with no training, he'd shit himself. Shinji accepted the situation he was in, misato is the one that told him to leave.
>>143805773
You absolutely cannot understand a piece of art without understanding its context, historically, and, for the creator, personally. If you don't know why medieval paintings often lack perspective, then you've completely lost the deeper intended meaning. Did cubism come about in a vacuum? Of course not, it's has intended meaning. No man is an island, and the same holds true for art.
>>143805789
>>143805823
>>143805838
If you don't want to deal with it, you can always just not reply to demands for evidence. It's that easy.
>>143805912
All you have to do is ask nicely.
>>143805839
>we have no historical evidence for what happens when adults and/or children are drafted into a war
m9 pls
Eva is unrealistic in more ways than one.
>>143805938
If there's anything I've learned from years on /a/, it's that being contentious significantly increases the odds of getting replies.
>>143805939
Unrealistic premise =/= unrealistic characters =/= unrealistic character motivations or actions
IE, something can be inherently unrealistic and still have people respond realistically to it.
>>143805862
Sure, but I don't see how this is relevant to the conversation at hand. We're not talking about context here, we're talking about creator intent.
>>143805963
It also significantly reduces your chance of getting constructive replies.
>>143805963
Godo point.
>>143805978
You are correct. I'm saying that, based on historical examples of people reacting to similar situations, Eva's character reactions are unrealistic.
>>143806008
Wow, I watched this post for a good twenty seconds and didn't notice the typo.
>>143806013
How so? Shinji initially struggles with piloting, but eventually gets used to it after some positive experiences and successes. Later, he starts having second thoughts after some extremely traumatic events while piloting. What exactly is unrealistic about this?
>>143803712
He wasn't dumb, just cowardly and perverted
>>143805987
The historical context informs our knowledge of creative intent. For example, that question of perspective? It was a choice made to actively deny the existence of moral grays. That adds incredible amounts of depth to the situation you're looking at.
>>143806013
Similar situations to aliens invading, where the only solution as a 14 year old is to work with your estranged father who is a member of the illuminati?
I only bring up those points because they factor into how the characters act.
>>143806075
Frame that as the British Invasion of the Indian subcontinent, and it's not that hard to achieve a similar setup.
>>143806110
I don't have an appropriate reaction image for this.
>>143806057
Child warfare is a big and complicated issue, and none of the kids in Eva really act much like real world child soldiers. They're very caught up in their own personal problems, which just isn't something you'd see.
>>143806073
Okay, sure. But surely I can use this same lens to describe the intention behind using giant robots as a framing device for the story in NGE, no? What is your point here? Are you just trying to corner me into saying something about the show? I don't understand.
>>143806073
We're not talking about the way perspective was used in the show (or anything along those lines).
>>143806013
Did you ever actually read up on drafted soilders? Yea brave and heroic stuff happend, so did drug adiction and other horrible things. Shinji still faught when he almost died the first time, and just gave up in himself and any diesre to live for himself, for the greater good and only left when misato told him too. You have to be bait. Alot of drafted soldiers didn't just go all guns blazen like rambo, they shot to defend them selfs or because they were angry.
>>143806149
Sure, because they aren't always at war. Child soldiers are taught to live a war lifestyle, while the pilots of NGE are trying to live a fairly normal life while killing robots as a side job. It's a different situation.
>>143806149
If Eva was attempting be be like that other manga, Bokurano, you'd have a point. I assume, I've never read it.
>>143806159
The source of all of this was an assertion that art doesn't have inherent meaning, which is a ridiculous claim.
>>143806166
Every part of a piece of art should be an intentional choice.
>>143806290
Yes, I agree. What was the point of this runaround? I wasn't arguing that art is unintentional.
>>143806253
My basic point here is that I think people are mistaken to praise Eva for its character interactions. I think there are things you can justify about it, mostly the way it grapples with nihilism, but I don't think it does anything special with its characters.
>>143806290
Yes, it should. It's still not what we were talking about, though.
>>143806321
That's fine, I disagree.
>>143806321
>mostly the way it grapples with nihilism
In what way does NGE grapple with nihilism? And you still haven't shown how the character interactions are bad.
>>143806321
>You don't need to know the inner workings of an artists mind or their detailed motivations for creating something
This is ultimately what that long spiel about art history is replying to.
>>143806335
Bro, what are you even on about? I got like, 6 people sucking my (you) dick right now, and I can only do so much.
>>143806411
We're not talking about what inspired the choices behind the art direction of the show.
>>143806376
I don't think the character interactions are bad. I just don't think there's anything special about the way it shows Shinji's relationship with his father. Or anyone else, really. It's just standard. Even Amaama to Inazuma feels like a more realistic parent/child relationship.
>>143806473
Well that's what I was talking about to that guy. I don't know what you want to talk about.
Wait, if the original complaint was that the religious symbolism was meaningless, why are who I assume to be the same posters now saying that everything in art has meaning?
>>143806553
Sorry, everything in good art is chosen purposefully.
>>143806518
No, we were not talking about that. I don't know why you thought we were.
>20 posters
>120 replies
wew lad
>>143806593
So are you saying that Evangelion is bad art because it wasn't chosen purposefully, which is stupid, or are you contradicting yourself, or are you agreeing with me?
>>143806615
Because I believe you do need to know the inner workings of an artists mind and their detailed motivations for creating something.
>>143806593
>>143806518
>The religious symbolism doesn't have meaning
>That's not necessarily true
>Prove it
>I can't
>Everything in art has meaning and that's important. For example...
This conversation so far
>>143806638
The first. I'm saying that much of it is chosen for the sake of aesthetics, rather than with any real intent in mind.
>>143806634
I'm having a good time
>>143806691
>Everything in GOOD art has meaning and that's important
ftfy
>>143806694
What's wrong with aesthetics? Even if it was, doesn't that mean there was something in mind? Mind you, we're talking exclusively about the religious imagery.
What makes you think it does not have meaning? Why are you only assuming the separation of art and intent when it's convenient for you? Why does it matter?
>>143806743
Barring the fact that you're only assuming Eva doesn't in one very small aspect of the overall production, it's also afucking opinion.
>>143806777
It's lazy, it's what novices do, and it is literally the definition of pretentious. That's not hyperbole, it is, by the dictionary definition, pretentious to use imagery for the sake of looking like you have deeper meaning.
Annoying, unrealistic, unrelatable, and uninteresting gamma male.
Not like you should have expected anything more from Anno the Hack.
>>143806813
This is overwhelmingly stupid. I feel like it's dodging the question completely.
1) Right off the bat, you're assuming they only used it to look like there was a deeper meaning. You don't know this.
2) There's absolutely zero proof that only novices use strict aesthetics.
3) It's an opinion.
>>143806936
1) I believe the quote that this all stems back to states that the religious imagery is just there to look cool. So we do know that.
2) You're right, sometimes experienced people fall back into making a beginner's mistake
3) It's not an opinion to call something pretentious when it checks all the boxes
>>143806485
Everything you've said up till now has been completely wrong, so I'm really not convinced by your conclusion here.
>>143807090
kek ok
>>143807027
The fact thats it's a mistake at all in not substantiated, and assuming that it is defeats the purpose of the conversation because it amounts to you saying "I'm right because I'm right."
And no, we still don't know anything. Even if it was just there to look cool, that doesn't mean it was there to make it appear deep.
It's only an opinion.
>>143807116
You're splitting hairs here. The easier way to defend this would be to argue that the symbolism has valid meaning, assuming you actually think it does.
I'm also not really going to bother defending my statement that it's a beginner's mistake. It is, but it's tough to prove without access to a lot of novice creations to show you.
>>143807255
Nah, that's a different argument.
Anyway, even if you were correct, that's still probably the most surface level complaint that could possibly be levied against the show.
>>143807255
I don't know why you're going on about this novice crap. Anno was not a novice when he made NGE.
>>143807319
Once I get my toehold in there, I would normally start arguing that the rest of the show is pretentious nonsense, too.
And it's not really a different argument, it's just a different tactic towards proving the same point.
>>143807340
Because it really, honestly, is a trait that's very common in beginners and that doesn't add anything to a work. If Anno is guilty of meaningless imagery, than he made a mistake, and one you wouldn't expect of a veteran.
>>143807340
It's a stupid complaint, because you can't measure how much an author "reeeaaaalllly meant it" and then use that as your baseline for critical analysis of the show. Especially when it's only one factor of many.
>>143807404
I'm beginning to think you have no idea what you're talking about.
Note: You still haven't proven that you're right. And can't.
>>143807416
You can pick up on how intentional something is by how internally consistent the imagery and themes are.
>>143803712
Yes, but only because he didn't slam this fine ass when he had the chance
>>143807460
And how is the imagery inconsistent? You can't compare it to actual Christianity now, because it's pretty fucking clearly not.
>>143807404
>If Anno is guilty of meaningless imagery, than he made a mistake, and one you wouldn't expect of a veteran.
But why go on about how it's a "novice" mistake? It's a mistake in general, plenty of experienced creators do it too.
>>143804739
WINKY FACE
>>143807503
Internal consistency is a different sort of thing. But that does bring up a good point. What's the point of using Christian imagery if you're not intending to link it to Christian philosophy? Fake depth.
>>143807536
And plenty of experienced cooks will use the wrong knife for the job from time to time, but it's still what you would term a beginner's mistake, and it's something that they will feel chagrined for when they do.
>>143807681
No, you didn't answer the question. How is it internally inconsistent?
You can use Christian imagery, and go on to change it as much as you want for your setting, while still understanding it or having it mean something.
You've said so little over all of these posts.
>>143803712
He's not a hero, just the MC.
>>143807740
It's not used a proper motifs. They just throw in the Christian imagery willy nilly, without any consistency in meaning. How is it consistent?
>>143807681
>and it's something that they will feel chagrined for when they do.
What do you even mean by this? Are you just trying to sound smart?
>>143807790
Yeah, you're still not answering the question. I can see where this is going.
>>143807793
Do you not know what chagrin is? It's like this emotion that's a mixture of embarrassment and regret, but not serious.
>>143807837
You're asking me to prove a negative. I can point out that the use of crucifixion doesn't have any consistency in its target or why it occurs, but I can't actually prove that there is no consistency whatsoever. It's just impossible.
>>143803712
>hero
He turned humanity into soup.
>>143807923
Ah, but you said yourself
>Internal consistency is a different sort of thing.
So how is the depiction of crucifixion inconsistent within the show?
You're right. You can't prove it.
>>143807923
>Do you not know what chagrin is? It's like this emotion that's a mixture of embarrassment and regret, but not serious.
I know what the word means, I'm asking why you're using it. And you aren't even using it correctly.
>>143807923
>>143807981
Oh, and every time crucifixion comes up in the show something is suffering for the sake of humanity, so I'd say it's pretty consistent in how it occurs.
>>143807981
You got me. I can't do the literally impossible and prove a negative. It's almost like that's why the concept of the burden of proof was invented.
>>143808036
See, this is what is supposed to be happening. You make a positive assertion, you back it up. I'd have to go back and look at the in show examples to prove you wrong, and it may be you're entirely correct.
>>143807999
Eh, the extra for was unnecessary, but typos are expected when you're typing fast and not proofreading.
>>143808095
You keep saying "burden of proof" and leaving it at that like it matters.
>>143808124
It's not just a typo, it's a pointless statement in general. What's the point of mentioning that a creator would be embarrassed other than for the opportunity to use a big word, ignoring the fact that the assertion really isn't correct.
>>143803712
Nowhere close. There have been legitimately dumb heroes since the beginning of storytelling, all the way back to Heracles.
>>143808175
Because it is literally impossible to prove a negative, and burden of proof is the term that people use to determine who needs to present evidence for anything to move forward.
>>143808185
>two syllables
>big word
>>143808259
No one needs to present evidence of anything, but if you want them to you'll need to ask nicely, and not just say "burden of proof."
>>143808312
lol nah
>>143807486
That's a man.
>>143808259
Big word in the colloquial sense dumbass.
>>143808543
Did you just use the word colloquial to sounds smart?
>>143808386
Maybe all the religious symbols were thrown in without Annos consent. Anime is made by alot of writers producers and artists. Maybe they all got just really drunk and ran out of ideas and thought why not just put in crucifixes and religious stuff in. Then again they never followed their original script to begin with stuff was always being changed around. Also it seems with amount of esoteric phenomena in the series they were probably already obsessed with stuff like it.
>>143808590
Asuka a shit.
>>143808559
No, that's actually one of the only words to use in that situation.
>>143808627
No, Anno had a ridiculous amount of control over the production. There's not much of anything that got by without his approval.
>>143807938
He brought, peace, love, and understanding through the only way possible - indiscriminate death and evangelization of humanity.
He erased everyone of the cardinal, original sin: Life.
Just like Broseph Stalin said, no man, no problem.
>>143808760
Holy crap I just remembered that Seele were basically talking monoliths that gave man fire from a space Odessy. Illuminati much?
>>143808627
The entire purpose of that show is to create a cool new mecha sub-genre with a dickload of aesthetics everywhere and then try to justify it as it progresses. Seriously, who builds an entire city in the middle of Armaggedon?
>>143809725
Yeah but it's not merely for aesthetic reasons. The entire show is basically religion based. Look at the angel names. The core of NERV is central dogma. The computer system is Magi split into three different parts the spear of Longinus need I go on. It's basically all about religion but most people watch it superficial aspects of the aesthetics that makes it look neat to them.
>Evangelion thread
>it's garbage
wow who would have thought
>>143803764
But the visual wankery specifically meant everything. Unless by "visual wankery" you mean the crosses and names (which aren't even visual)
Maybe Japanese people don't think anything of Christianity as something other than a collection of symbols and cool stories and therefore putting christian stuff in a Japanese giant robot show specifically for aesthetics isn't weird or strange or pretentious or wrong just like when the West appropriates foreign symbols like the Swastika or the Yin Yang or even when Diablo based its lore around it even though it had nothing to do with the actual christian lore
With this logic every single word used in a novel would have to be perfectly considered from its etymological roots or otherwise it'd be pretentious
>>143810472
This motherfucker right here gets it. For the japs Christian symbolism is to Evangelion what Ancient Greek culture is to God of War for us.
>>143810598
I mean that's essentially what Tsurumaki says in the infamous quote. "We put all that shit here because we never thought some loonies who actually think all that shits for real would watch our show lulz"
>>143810654
Yeah but the show doesn't make any sense without its religious implications it's just robots fighting to save the world hurt. Of course there's stuff put in for different reasons so it is with any other movie it's a reflection of the artists views.
>>143810789
>the show doesn't make any sense without its religious implications
what? in what way does it not make any sense without religious implications? if anything the freudian overtones are much more relevant to the actual meat of EVA
Hello!
I'm not the usual visitor of /a/, since I don't like anime that much. However Evangelion always had a special place in my heart, for I enjoyed the TV series. Years later I'm still dissapointed at the ending. I know Eva has been redone million times by now, but everytime I try to watch some OVA its just retelling of first ~10 episodes from the show cramped into a mess. >>143808760
So, judging from this post, the story does have a proper conclusion. What should I watch? If possible, avoid spoilers. Thanks in advance.
>>143811579
I think the "dissapointing" ending, while not being what the audience expected at all at the time, was a worthy ending to a great series. However, if you want the alternative more action-filled ending, just watch End of Evangelion. Don't expect to make much sense out of it, tho.
Shinji doesn't expect to survive when he gets in the robot, burns the shit out of his hands protecting the kids who beat him up that day, burns the shit out of his hands on Rei's entry plug, jumps in a volcano, runs toward an angel attack to yell at his dad and demand the robot back, and thinks he's a coward. He's dumb because he'd jump on a grenade and refuses to learn that about himself.
>>143803712
What would you do in his shoes?
>>143803764
>visual wankery which the creator admitted didn't even mean anything.
Nihilism is the best and even if you are a gigantic faggot you can't deny it.
>>143808218
Word. It's amazing how outright dumb most classic and Bible protagonists are. Some of them would be considered functionally retarded today.
>Samson gets blatantly betrayed by some whore three times (using exactly the same words) and he still trusts her the fourth time, getting betrayed again for the drama
>omnipotent God wants the pharaoh to be a dick, can't get it right even after trying six times
>>143803712
He's a wimpy teenager portrayed accurately
I don't see the problem OP
>>143803712
He's a 14 year old kid with daddy issues. If Shinji ended up being an alpha male who got in the robot and made all the right decisions and never fucked up /a/ would still complain about him so can we stop this "lol shinji is a pussy" meme?
