Well anons, which one was better and elicted more raw emotion from you? Which was more shocking and messed up?
Is there anything out there that touches these two? (manga version for eclipse obviously)
>>143198346
I didn't really give a fuck to the fanta in Evangelion.
Overrated shit as always.
>>143198346
Both are shit. Spirited Away and My Neighbor Totoro are more emotional than both.
https://vimeo.com/91985775
This simple scene is more powerful than the entirety of Berserk and EoE.
>>143198412
Spirited away is mediocre, Miyazaki's best work is his Nausicaa manga.
Eclipse
Never fails to make me angry
>>143198346
I honestly believe the berserk anime to be absolute shit. The manga is great, the anime is anything but animated which just begs the question, "why not just go read the manga?". Besides that it doesn't do the manga any justice.
Eva has had a far larger impact on anime, it showed that original anime done properly could in fact be very, very successful. Without it we would have arguably seen a lot less original shows and a lot more "safe bet" long running anime based on well established manga à la the big3.
Probably Berserk since it's a well written story first and foremost rather than a shallow story that's only there to serve as the vehicle for the writers super duper important message.
>>143198455
Spirited Away is good, but this scene is phenomenal.
>Nausicaa manga
In terms of plot, yes.
>>143198412
>trying to objectively judge something solely with "muh feels"
Everything wrong with art today.
>Eva
Whoa.. it's like.. it was all a metaphor.. and now, everything is over..
>Berserk
GRIFFITH!!!!!!!
GUTS!!!!!!!!!!!!!
Holy shit now Guts has to live in this literal eternal waking nightmare
>>143198574
Yes, this is how good art works.
>>143198524
I honestly believe the only reason the Berserk anime has a cultish following here in the west was cause it's for most oldfags their first foray into the berserk verse, and it was more readily available than scans (manga might not have even be officially translated at the time yet too). Either way it's highly irrelevant now and is really just a cool cultural relic of the past other than the A+ soundtrack. I also blame the anime for making annoying oldfags spread the golden age is le best arc meme. (Conviction is).
>>143198637
No, absolutely and completely wrong, keep drinking the koolaid though.
>>143198704
What is art about if not feelings?
>Eva
>Berserk
Hello /v/
>>143198637
>muh degree in feminism
sorry, but your shit taste can't be justified by "muh feels"
It's supposedly better than Berserk.
>>143198798
Nausicaa is better than Berserk. And it even has a similar story.
>>143198825
If you mean the manga yeah (it's the best manga out there).
>>143198657
I am 32 and have been watching anime since the late 80s early 90s. I disliked Berserk back in the day as well, nothing fucking moved, ever, and the art wasn't even attempting to be in the same league as that of the manga. A complete and utter shitty anime to the point where the Japs themselves cared very little for it compared to the manga. In fact the only reason it even got an anime was because of the great success of the manga.
If you ask me the people who harp on about Berserk being a good anime are people who like to pretend they are anime "connoisseurs" and are above others because of it.
>>143198574
>insisting theres no subjectivity in art
Even the Greeks understood that things are greater than the sum of their components. Get the fuck over yourself.
>>143198543
In terms of everything m8, it's his most fully realized work. If you took the entire content of the manga into consideration it equals his movies (well ones that are great anyway) and you get to pretty much discount Princess Mononoke for being a retelling and the movie for even obvious reasons. Kushana is also his best character he ever made.
>>143198737
It should evoke emotions, but the art as the object in and of itself should be judged objectively according to criteria.
People literally can't paint like Rembrandt, Monet, Courbet, Dali etc. because it isn't being taught, and it isn't being taught because your school of thought is sadly the predominant one "if it expresses my feelings it is good art!". This has nothing to do with real vs abstract art either, both (should) have standards. Nowadays though it is a case of "anything goes".
Smear poop on a canvas, name it something "inspirational" like "The fecality of life" ad watch the cash coins flow in, why even bother applying yourself. There is a reason art students are looked down upon, they take take take and contribute nothing but their own "feelings", without a thought for what they are inflicting on others. I feel sorry for those who go into the art field and actually do apply themselves.
>>143199183
>but the art as the object in and of itself should be judged objectively according to criteria.
What criteria?
>>143198923
I wish this place had a pinko board where we could contain trash like you, the closest I can think of is
>>>/lgbt/
You shan't be missed.
>>143198532
But EoE is one of the most visually stunning anime films of all time tho. Eclipse is better though.
>>143199246
creativity/originality
>>143199712
>visually stunning
It's very creative and beautiful, but the animation isn't particularly great.
>>143199183
Great, but what does it have to do with anime? It's not like Berserk or EoE look better than any Ghibli film.
>>143199761
Which are very easy to objectively pin down, of course. And are also very good measures of quality.
Except for the fact that that they're nearly impossible to pin down in addition to the fact that some of the most highly acclaimed works not only take heavy inspiration from their forebears but sometimes straight up steal material and ideas from them.
>>143199793
you don't think the berserk manga can't compare to Ghibli films in it's art?
Reminder that the K-On! movie is the best anime movie ever.
>>143199793
>Great, but what does it have to do with anime? It's not like Berserk or EoE look better than any Ghibli film.
Why reply when you aren't going to follow the trail to understand the context something was being said in?
>>143198346
>does penis imagery elicted more raw emotion from you than pure e d g e
>>143199882
K-on is awful
>>143199857
I don't think you should compare manga and anime.
>>143199346
Okay, then what are your OBJECTIVE STANDARDS for measuring the quality of an artistic work?
>>143199930
If you're the same anon, I thought you were comparing the Berserk manga to Ghibli films which is why I asked. Yeah the movies and anime obviously can't compare though.
>>143199793
>but the animation isn't particularly great.
Is that a joke? It has one of the best animated robot fights of all time. Maybe if you only used fluidity of movement as your measure, but there's much more to animation than having lots of frames and movement.
>>143199882
The K-on movie is great but the ending is just a weaker version of the TV show ending.
>>143199961
>but there's much more to animation than having lots of frames and movement
Not if we are trying to be objective.
>>143199943
The standards needn't be objective, there need to be standards by which you can objectively judge something. they might sound like one and the same, but they are not.
>>143198412
My Neighbor Totoro is shit and waay below Spirited Away.
>>143200054
My neighbor Totoro is one of the best films about childhood ever made.
>>143199793
>the animation isn't particularly great
Now you are just baiting.
>>143200089
Too bad films about childhood suck a big schlong.
>>143200041
And that falls apart because no one is going to agree on a unified set of standards for criticizing art, especially when different works aim to achieve different things.
>>143200118
I'm not. One longer scene of robots fighting doesn't made the whole thing well animated. It looks better than TV anime, but clearly not as good as any Ghibli film.
>>143200145
but who was boyhood?
>>143200029
That's fucking retarded and you know it. You've seen those rotoscoped scenes and scenes with shitloads of movement that still look like pure garbage because it's just movement for movements sake, and fluidity for fluidity's sake. Knowing when to stop motion in the frame and when to use fewer frames to evoke something is an extremely important part of animation.
>>143200180
No one is saying it's better than Ghibli, I would agree that Ghibili is better in general. But to say that it's "nothing special" is just wrong.
>>143200234
>boyhood
An extremely shitty movie that sold on its gimmick. It isn't one thing or the other, absolute tripe. You are only even naming it because you are expecting me to respond exactly like this and are getting a kick out of it.
>>143198346
Neither. Both felt like they were trying way too hard. I wish I could be more easily impressed I guess...
>>143200342
>an extremely shitty movie
No.
Films about being a child and growing up can be very good. Totoro is pretty much perfect.
>>143200393
what was tryhard about the eclipse? Please don't tell me you think Casca's rape. Also what are some moments that you think are great?
>>143200180
>>143200288
>A 24 episode series created by then relatively unknown people was less well animated than a single lone feature length film created by the creme de la creme of the anime world backed by a big name studio.
>>143200425
Boyhood however is not.
>>143200520
It's still not shitty.
>>143200497
Gainax was in no way unknown when Eva came out.
>>143200600
Compared to Ghibli? Yes, yes they were.
>>143200546
Ya, it is, it wouldn't have received any recognition without its gimmick, its story and directing are shit.
>>143200824
how about Tree of Life? Thoughts?
>>143200797
Not really. They weren't a household name like Ghibli but anyone who had any reasonable amount of anime knowledge would have known about Gainax.
>>143198657
But conviction is the worst arc
>>143201098
Uh how on earth is it worse than Black Swordsman or Fantasia (with loli harry potter island shit now)? Thinking the Golden Age and even Millenium Falcon arc is better is one thing, but those other are two are definitely below these three.
>>143198346
I haven't seen/read either since I was 16/17, but I remember that EoE blew my mind and the Eclipse just made me jack off, so I'm going to have to go with EoE for emotional impact.
>>143198908
You're telling me you were regularly watching anime as a 5 year old in 1989?
>>143200546
Boyhood is absolute garbage.
>>143198524
>it showed that original anime done properly could in fact be very, very successful
Given that 3 out of the 5 best-selling anime before NGE were originals (and one of the remaining two was a sequel to one of those three), I suspect that everyone in the industry had already figured that out.
>>143198346
Have a downvote.
I feel like Evangelion + EoE in particular is a life-changing experience, especially if you see it between like 13 and 16 years old when you can most relate to the issues the characters have.
EoE has fantastic imagery and really feels like the apocalypse. All of these characters you've grown to love are just wiped out. Plus delicious film grain, amazing soundtrack, and some of the best animation of the 90s.
Eclipse is OK I guess but it didn't have the same impact.
>>143201532
If you look at the actual sales, NGE blows everything before it straight out of the water. Gundam pretty much depended on merch sales to keep it making a significant amount of money. NGE made it clear that you could make money just by selling tapes, and that changed the whole market structure.
>>143199810
>they're nearly impossible to pin down
only nearly
http://www.dailymail.co.uk/sciencetech/article-3126302/Move-art-critics-Computer-algorithm-reveals-original-masterpieces-time.html
>some of the most highly acclaimed works not only take heavy inspiration from their forebears but sometimes straight up steal material and ideas from them
of course nothing exists in a vacuum, building on old ideas with new ones, or even just combining old ideas counts as original, of course
i don't think there's a great deal of works that recieved lasting praise and didn't bring in some new element. or there might be, but then those are overrated on artistic terms, and acclaimed for other reasons, happens.
>>143201788
I don't know what you're trying to prove with that article. Sure, it picked out some great works, but others scored low and are still considered to be among the greatest works of all time. It doesn't really prove anything.
>>143201720
NGE blows everything out of the water, of course, but you're overstating the extent. Things like 0079/Zeta or Patlabor, which did 20-30K, were obviously making money off of home media sales alone. It's not that NGE really demonstrated any possibility that wasn't known, it's just that it was so fucking huge that everyone thought they could make massive bank.
>>143201874
It showed that making massive bank was possible. No one thought an original could make that kind of money before NGE.
>>143201870
it's just supposed to prove that it's not impossible to measure originality
of course there's other criteria but, barring technical skill, none are as close to being objective/unbiased
>>143201977
Dumbass, if it doesn't actually pick out the greats then its a shit measure. Just being objective doesn't mean it's useful.
>>143202017
but we dont know what the greats "actually" are without some sort of measure like that
>>143198346
sacrifice
sacrifice
sacrifice
>>143201947
No one thought anything could make that kind of money. Again, only 1 of the top 5 selling anime before NGE was an adaptation - Lupin III, which was the best-seller at 29K and had been for a quarter-century (0079 had sold 28K, though, so I doubt anyone really thought there was a huge gap between what originals and adaptations could sell). NGE sold 110K. It wasn't about people not thinking originals could be profitable, they just didn't think anything, adaptations included, could be as profitable as NGE turned out to be.
>>143202175
>>143201977
This is kind of fucking silly. They're greats because so many people like them. A perfect machine for that tkind of thing would simply be predicting which works people would like. There's no "actually" about it, because it's a predictive evice, not a prescriptive one. It can't fucking prove you that a painting is great if no one likes that painting, because that's not how quality works.
>>143202175
No anon, we already have academic consensus and popular consensus for stuff like that. Granted, you can disagree with stuff like that. But this objective measure only measures one aspect of the work. It doesn't measure quality. And moreover, you can still disagree with these objective measures.
>>143202175
Just see a work of art in the context of time. HOW is it remembered after a decade of two. Great shows remain relevant even after generations change while not so good stuff gets forgotten or are remember only for their historical importance.
>>143201451
Yes, basically all kids shows where I lived were anime. Welcome to the life of a SEA army brat.
