Who else hate modern animation?
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God I miss when things were just hand drawn.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=qX5mPQRhimo&list=PL7jmIZ8WW6ZS6M-uYt0-ROelNCKzNoOlO&index=208
>>142369290
It doesn't have to be all hand drawn but I do agree I hate the smoothness of modern animation. I miss the kind of mid 2000's aesthetic shows like FMP and DTB had.
>>142369290
Animation is still hand drawn.
>>142369536
Bullshit at least 90% f the work is done on computers now. You look at this and tell me how hand drawn it looks.
>>142369290
You don't hate modern animation, you hate shitty cgi. Everyone does, don't feel special.
>>142369290
Yeah, I bet you think they use mouse and keyboard.
>>142369290
Too obvious/10
>>142369705
Just because computers are used for coloring/effects/etc... doesn't mean that the starting picture wasn't hand drawn.
>>142369722
That was an extreme example but I generally hate the smooth and very plain look of 90+% of most shows that come out nowadays.
>>142369705
for example I hate the look of this webm
>>142369841
They are hand drawn in the sense that they are drawn on wacom tablets, sure. But the aesthetic is not the same and that's the only thing that matters.
>>142369841
Yes but saying the finished product is hand drawn because the starting image is hand drawn is like saying apple juice is all natural because the apples its made from were all natural. Really its just a disgusting concoction of sweetners meant to appeal to the masses.
Animation is still hand drawn.
But you aren't alone though. A lot of people prefer the old grainy look of CEL animation. I love the aesthetic of 70s animation myself, though I ultimately prefer the range of color modern anime can fully utilize.
>>142370181
>though I ultimately prefer the range of color modern anime can fully utilize.
You mean putting filters on top of everything to create a colorful vomit-inducing mess?
>>142370027
>>142369999
Sure the final aesthetic is different, but you can't say it isn't hand drawn.
People are still drawing on paper or on tablets, you can't disrespect that.
Find a better word for it, like digital processing.
What you're nostalgic about isn't called hand drawn, it's cels.
>>142369290
I agree but more like because I think the majority of the shows coming out nowadays look exactly the same. Theres no fucking diversity. I'm actually kind of excited to see how good it is in the new Berserk.
Digital effects are one of the best things to have ever happened to animation. So much more expression can be packed into a scene, colors and effects can be manipulated on a whim, entirely new styles are possible that never were before. It's a great thing
https://jii.moe/NyM3_2qm-.webm
>>142369908
90% of most shows ever have looked smooth and plain. At least now they aren't also inconsistent and just plain stupid masses of trash like they were before digital animation production was a thing. These days a bad show looks like Netoge. In your oh so illustrious past, it ended up looking like the first Uchuu Senkan Yamato. We don't need any more of that.
And for someone who seems so hung up on muh shading it's pretty silly that you would criticize of the few shows and studios that actually cares about it. Take a look at some Euphonium cels sometime, they've got all the elements that your retro ones do. Yes they were hand drawn, and they were then mastered produced in a superior way after that.
>>142369290
I think reddit would appreciate your shitty opinions more than here, so please go there and don't come back kid.
>>142370313
>People are still drawing on paper or on tablets, you can't disrespect that.
Who the fuck cares about respect? If it's ugly then it's ugly.
>>142370027
Shitty analogy.
The term "hand drawn" doesn't imply that the coloring can't be done digitally and it's pretty irrelevant anyway. In the end computers are just a tool used by humans the same way they use pencils or paper.
>>142370288
this
>>142370313
Whatever then I hate digital processing and I miss cels. What difference does it make I'm still saying the same thing.
>>142370320
I also agree, it all looks the same to me.
>>142370377
Your opinion is ugly, which is why I'll be disrespectful and call you retarded.
You're right, it's pretty easy to have zero arguments, I'll try that more often.
>>142370421
>What difference does it make I'm still saying the same thing.
But you're saying it the right way.
Be a fucking stupid nostalgiafag with zero sense for aesthetics, but at least be one that uses the correct terms and understand what he's talking about.
>>142370320
>>142370421
Trends change, styles evolve. Most shows from a given time period have always all looked the same. This decade is no exception, nor are your precious retro decades.
>>142370463
You are making childish arguments with words that mean nothing like "respect". That is irrelevant. What matters is the end result, and almost everyone agrees that cel animation was better looking than this computer shit.
>>142370624
>almost everyone agrees that cel animation was better looking than this computer shit.
If it's better, why doesn't anyone use it anymore?
Checkmate athetist.
All that matter is the end result, digital > cel, the entire anime industry agreed, don't bother them about it.
>>142369705
That is hand drawn, you moron.
>>142370624
>What matters is the end result, and almost everyone agrees that cel animation was better looking than this computer shit.
[citation needed]
>>142370624
Literally the only 'argument' you've made is that you liked the way it looked better.
Every single aspect of animation has only improved thanks to the benefits of digital animation, from costs to consistency to ease of production to expressiveness, and all your dense ass can do is look at the result and say "yeah well it looked cooler before"
>>142370698
Because it is easier and cheaper. When you can change the entire mood of your animation by applying a filter on top with no effort whatsoever, why would you not? It doesn't matter what is more liked, what matters is whatever method lets them crank out more dime a dozen SOL anime because they know youl'll buy it anyway.
>>142370320
Anime has always looked incredibly samey. This isn't anything new in this current generation of anime.
>>142369290
>look it's this thread again
Fuck off.
>>142370847
Let them stomp their feet.
They'll get tired of it in a few minutes.
>>142370698
Because the Jews fucking took control of the industry and with their dirty kike hands they got rid of the beautiful cel animation for the much cheaper computer generated schlock.
>>142370624
>You are making childish arguments with words that mean nothing like "respect"
His argument wasn't about "respect" at all though. He could have just used the word "acknowledge" in that sentence. It wasn't even about subjective aesthetics. He simply said that the term "hand drawn" still applies to most modern anime.
>>142370773
If an armless team of men created an anime drwn with only their feet and it turned out to look like complete shit, is it then good because you "respect" their efforts? In the end, you're still left with an ugly product.
>>142370372
Spotted the moepig
>>142370288
>trying to make your point with Aincrad's 22nd floor
it's like you've never been to the swiss alps or something
>>142369290
Old berserk still used digital effects you retard.
>>142370830
I disagree. Even five years ago there was much more variation but nowadays I can only tell the difference between those that are literally using cgi an those that aren't.
>>142370823
This. In the next few years cgi is going to be getting cheaper and cheaper and the Jews are going to start using it more and more, which is when I'll stop watching Anime forever before it turns into fucking shrek.
>>142371033
This looks like something you'd see in a big budget 90's OVA. Now all you get is blurry filtered CG shit.
>>142371033
>>142370288
I don't remember there being lens flares when I visited there last spring break. Those refugees must really be turning it to shit.
>>142371265
Is this post satire?
>>142370920
>>142371211
>>142371334
/pol/ pls leave
>>142369290
>It's another crossboarder who think anime is not 90% hand drawn still
Just fuck off.
>>142369478
this
>>142371421
Look at >>142369705 for your average shitty digital background. Occasionally shows still do them well but there's less and less every year.
>>142371441
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ODZE5peUfWQ&list=PL7jmIZ8WW6ZS6M-uYt0-ROelNCKzNoOlO&index=210
>>142369705
Not the same scene but here.
>>142371586
Analog background still exist. Even the most digital ones are still grounded on hand drawing still. What you mean by blur is the depth of field process which has nothing to do with the background itself.
I swear at least try to stop pretending you know anything about this.
>>142371595
Now I haven't watched Hibike Euphonium but I don't think thats what it looked like in the actual show.
>>142371717
And you do?
>>142371838
He certainly knows more than the rest of the shitters in this thread apparently. Especially you
>>142371777
You don't say
>>142371777
That's what it looked like.
>>142371777
Yeah it looked better
>>142371878
Fuck u m8 ur probably one of those moeshit fags. Stop jerking it to anmated little girls and making ur mom suicidal.
>>142371777
No shit, Sherlock.
ITT: people bitching about digital inking instead of cels, and animators drawing on tablets instead of paper
this is just as bad as this "forced animation" memery that's making the rounds; people don't even have enough of an understanding of animation to bitch
>>142369705
>>142371595
Could've posted the keyframe of the scene.
>>142371586
>What is depth of field?
Have you never seen a movie in your life?
>>142369290
I hate how clean and pristine it all looks these days.
>>142372078
Imagine the hell it was to draw these.
>>142372218
>emulating something that doesn't even exist in real life
wew lad
>>142372013
>cgi background
I think I threw up a little bit
While I do agree to an extent, the original Berserk anime isn't an example I'd look at as being well animated.
>>142372306
what's wrong with that?
>>142372408
It's ugly and lazy.
>lol we can't paint so just put blur filter on it surely no one will notice
>>142369290
>God I miss when things were just hand drawn.
like one draw per second on a slide show?
were they literaly collored manga parts and shaked the camera over it again and again?
>>142369290
Oldfag get out
It's time for the new gen
>>142372306
>depth of field doesn't exist in real life
Baito desu
>>142370932
What? I'm asking for evidence that a majority of people preferred cel animation to digital animation. If you have a physically disabled animation team create something it's probably going to look bad regardless of the methods they use, but what does that have to do with anything?
this elitist meme of digital art somehow being beneath physical art needs to die
>>142372306
holy fuck are you for real?
Reminder there's only 27 posters in here, people who prefer hand drawn and hate CGI are a very very small minority.
>>142372807
reminder anon is a salty fag who barely turned 18
>>142372306
Go outside.
>>142372766
wow, so not only are you blatantly disrespectful, but you're hopelessly out of touch, even for 4chan
>>142373087
>disrespectful
you have to go back fag
>>142369290
Is this a new PS2 game? Pre-rendering cutscenes were so 2001.
>>142372766
buttmad traditional artist detected
>>142373182
make me
i bet you think that all you need to become a digital artist is the money to buy a big tablet.
>>142373240
>>142373201
dont forget your deviant art account
and anyone can create art fag
I can fold a dollar bill and call it art
>>142372373
Fuck you Berserk had the most badass animation I've seen.
>>142373314
Every one can create art, but every one can't create good art.
>>142373314
nice change of subject
you openly devalue digital artists and their work, something i won't take lying down, and now you can't even address my argument
>>142373358
good story and voice acting != good animation anon
>>142373516
>he think all you need is a wacom tablet to make digital art.
pretty much go fuck yourself i gave an example of a dollar bill turned to art.How about i send you an art work of shit on a monitor.It is trying to convey the message that digital art is shit
>>142373358
>Fuck you Berserk had the most badass animation I've seen.
is this a joke?
>>142373692
Are you okay anon
>>142369290
wow! it looks amazing.
>>142373611
Was it the best animation ever? By far no. But I said bad ass which it is. The art style was very bad ass it felt like it was from out of the manga, and when ts not freeze frames the movements of the fights look very fluid and realistic.
>>142373611
>>142374011
Here's this famous scene as an example.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Qacgb2b8LVU
>>142374011
>and when ts not freeze frames
keyword is WHEN
>>142373876
>deflecting
>>142374061
Holy fuck I forgot how shit that was
>>142373692
haha holy shit you really believe it, oh man
get back to your geriatric chamber
>>142374061
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ASA2W2CsTwE
Meanwhile
say whatever you want about the movies, this scene and the whole last 30 minutes of the third one were THE SHIT
looks like they got the same company that did the shader to GGxrd to make the new animation accets to the new series
>>142374061
english dub? disgusting.
>>142374205
anyone can be an artist ans sure as fuck anyone can be a digital artist
i am so sorry you felt triggered since your personality/character are based upon being a smug artist
>>142374277
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wec6QmAZd5Y
>he doesnt like the dub
CGI > drawn shit. they just need to improve the textures to have drawn feel.
>>142369290
TELL ME WHY?
>>142374457
>implying they want to copy drawn shit and not be original in CGI route
>>142369290
My negor. Mod 2000and 90s are best. Modern studf lacks sooull.
>>142374490
what are you talking about it looks great.
>>142373358
Berserk TV series barely had animation. Just because the stills looked pretty doesn't mean the animation was good.
Now, the parts of the movies that weren't CG were well animated. I wouldn't have even minded story compression if the whole thing was animated without the awful CGI.
It's not real art unless it's been xeroxed. It just adds a lot of soul.
>>142374609
TELL ME WHY?
I do miss cel shaded animation, but the retards who go full HURR ALL MODERN STUFF IS BAD KILL KILL KILL are a fucking pain in the ass.
If you want a tasty blend of old hand drawn animation with modern aid, go rewatch Porco Rosso.
>>142369705
>take video footage of real japanese street
>put Adobe after effect
>"anime background"
it´s too lazy
>>142375143
Shitposting on 4chan is lazy, animating isn't.
>>142375216
>defending lazy/jewish digital animation
>>142370288
I hate when modern anime put len flares in landscape
>>142369290
Looks amazing.
Contrary to the garbage in the video you posted, literally 0 animation. It's fucking awful.
>>142370624
I definitely don't agree. Things have improved, a lot. I do feel bad for those who have been put out of a job. I only lament the shows going totally CG. They look awful.
>>142375480
Now this is just terrible. You can do better.
>>142369290
>Sidonia, Ronja, Tesagura, now berserk
I dont understand why japan want "upgrade" animation industry with full cgi? Always look choopy, always 10 frames per second. Flat simplified "anime faces" just look terrible in 3D.
If I wanted a fully CGI I'd just watch Pixar.
>>142375902
>always 10 frames per second
to be fair, at least in Sidonia's case, this was intentional. High framerate is pretty much literally the only thing cgi has over 1000 years hand drawn.
>>142372075
are these the tv/BD?
The late 90's had the best balance between hand drawn and digital coloring
>>142373358
Slide show
I'm just going to jump in here right now since traditional cels got an awful defense.
The reason why they look better than digital coloration and post processing is because of the grit that real ink has. It was more consistent with traditional Japanese aesthetics and thus had a lot more inherent personality. The art back then as a whole, despite being originally derived from western animation like Disney and Betty Boop, still had that personality because the fundamentals of animation are very similar to that of traditional Japanese aesthetics. It's called wabisabi. Sometimes the flaws in earlier digital animation held this over in addition to looking like ass. With modern animation, since the migration to digital is complete, the typical anime aesthetic is just a memetic holdover from when it was appropriate, but fails to work because of the flatness digital processing. The unfortunate thing here is that digital art, much like the synthesizer, is a door to a whole new world of potentially beautiful animation, but oftentimes the advantages are ignored in favor of throwing on as much effects as possible, Hibike Euphonium making an excellent example of total ass.
Even effects like DoF are ass because they fail to simulate what they are trying to correctly. Depth perception is something we don't inherently notice because of how our brains process what we see so it's distorted rather than just blurry. Fish eye has a small part in this since eyes aren't flat. We focus on what we look at. To go back to Hibike Euphonium, the DoF effect looks like ass because of a.) how overdone it is, and b.) the fact it isn't an accurate transition into a cartoon. Oftentimes, painted backgrounds were completely fine because the absence of lines and the less controlled medium than pens create an appropriate, consistent aesthetic. It's similar to what one would see with the backgrounds in a manga, which still use ink but much lower detail than characters or objects of interest.
(1/2)
This doesn't necessarily simulate depth perception, but it does provide a healthy substitute by controlling our focus on a flat surface.
At that point they might as well go full CG, which has in fact become common, but 90% of Japanese CG still looks like ass because of memetic holdovers from both traditional and digital animation, such as cel shading, awful framerates, and minimalism even though all of those things directly contradict the strengths of 3D CG. It certainly doesn't help when 3D animators also often fail to comprehend the fundamental elements of animation that still do apply, such as motion.
Overall, the primary reason why studios went to digital animation is the same reason why studios went to 3D: it's easier. It wasn't cheaper by any means, at least not initially, but it allowed a lot to be produced in less time with less talent. It was simply more efficient. Of course, now that digital is the norm, it has in fact become cheaper to produce, but just like any medium, making it good requires intuition, talent, and a basic understanding of the fundamentals of the medium, which has become rarer with time. Even older anime wasn't entirely consistent with traditional Japanese art, but that was at least partially by necessity. With digital, it's simply a matter of efficiency, which in a world of TV anime, tight schedules, and borderline mass production level of a bloated industry, it was the most efficient move once it had become normal. It's cheaper and quicker to make something that meets the standards of TV. By no means was it overall better. Most things aren't better when they're brand new like digital animation, though. If you watch 1920s silent cartoons, they weren't all that impressive and mostly just technical exercises. I might just be optimistic right now, but I'm sure that digital animation, given enough time, will slowly start to find it's own way as studios experiment around.
(2/2)
>>142370027
What kind of shithole country do you live in where actual apple juice doesnt exist?
>>142374323
wow you're an asshole
>>142378568
No, it's before filters and after filters. KyoAni isn't a jew studio that rushes their works and end up with a million things to fix in the blurays. They actually finish their works in time.
>>142381336
>It wasn't cheaper by any means, at least not initially, but it allowed a lot to be produced in less time with less talent
I doubt that painting cels requires a lot of talent.
>>142382351
I was talking about animation as a whole, not just CG coloring. Nevertheless, CG coloring is vastly faster though since you can just use a fill tool and click once. Comparatively, inking a cel requires that you both put in the time to cover it all as well as the precision to prevent any errors. Not to blow it out of proportion, but it's like trying to program in machine code then moving to Java with it's black boxes and shit.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Wec6QmAZd5Y
>>142375902
>Always look choopy, always 10 frames per second
Because they're making anime, not a game. They cut frames so it looks like that.
>>142382558
>I was talking about animation as a whole, not just CG coloring. Nevertheless, CG coloring is vastly faster though since you can just use a fill tool and click once. Comparatively, inking a cel requires that you both put in the time to cover it all as well as the precision to prevent any errors. Not to blow it out of proportion, but it's like trying to program in machine code then moving to Java with it's black boxes and shit.
Strictly speaking about talent what exactly do you think doesn't require talent in digital animation that required talent in cel animation?
>>142382965
>clicking mouse is hard
>>142381297
>>142381336
>The unfortunate thing here is that digital art, much like the synthesizer, is a door to a whole new world of potentially beautiful animation, but oftentimes the advantages are ignored in favor of throwing on as much effects as possible
Could you give any examples of these advantages and any shows/movies that have already taken full advantage of them? Pretty curious.
>>142372013
Wow, that looks like shit. She doesn't even look grounded.
>>142383055
No one said that.
>>142383243
For instance, Ghost in the Shell was one of the first anime to use CGI, the invisibility effect was done with computers. I could probably come up with more, but that is a pretty good specific
example of how computers can assist hand drawn animation.
I appreciate the look of well-done cel animation, when done right it can have appealing colors and has a unique look born out of its limitations. That said, we've gone digital for a while and I appreciate its advantages too.
>>142383243
Mitsuo Iso and Kou Yoshinari's use of digital processing are good examples if you're looking for people who use it. Then there are increasing amounts of animators picking up digital animation software to streamline the animation process. Digital composite also allows for filming of pretty much unlimited layers of key animation, so animators like Shinya Ohira won't get their work rejected for having too many layers to film unlike working with cels back then.
>>142383468
That webm looks like trash though, even if it is good animation.
>>142383546
Really? I think Iso's use of digital processing is beautiful.
>>142369705
I fucking love that
Call me faggot, i'll eat the salt with pleasure
>>142383546
I think it looks pretty great.
>>142383580
Doesn't come even close to Asuka v. MPEs or the spider mech in GitS
>>142383468
>bloom brown and blur
>good
fuck off
>>142383615
Not animation-wise, but it's visually very interesting. Actually, you can see Iso's director tendencies in his part of the EoE fight; the uses blurring and camera movement at some points during the fight. It looks different from the scenes by the other animators there.
>>142382965
>but just like any medium, making it good requires intuition, talent, and a basic understanding of the fundamentals of the medium
That aside, it's been proven already that many anime do use hand-done keyframes, but digital art is incredibly safe. No matter how many times you mess up, you can just press Ctrl+Z and immediately redo it with no evidence of mistake.
>>142383694
>It looks different from the scenes by the other animators there.
Yeah, because Iso is a fucking god. I would actually hold up Dennou Coil as an example of how good CGI can be mixed with hand drawn animation.
>>142383773
And that efficiency is good for the industry with absurdly short deadlines to begin with. We'd see a lot more coloring and composite mistakes if the industry stuck to cels.
>>142383773
What's even bad about that?
>>142383831
The keyword that describe traditional paint background but not digitally made background is "love", really.
It's like those thick wool coat that some grandmother make for their grandson.
>>142383773
So? No one ever admires the colors of an anime because whoever painted the cels put a lot of effort into not painting over the lines.
Color composition is a lot more important and requires just as much talent in digital animation.
>>142383894
Less pucker factor for the staff. We can see an overall reduction in pucker starting in the 90s with the introduction of digitally made images. This decline in pucker can be linked to Japan's overall economic decline, and the reduction of quality anime being produced. Currently, most of Japan's pucker is produced by mangaka inking detailed pages right before a deadline. By keeping deadlines on serialized manga tight, we can also ensure that the assholes of our staff stay tight as well. I hope you will work with me to ensure that Japan does not lose this valuable resource, and suffer further economic decline.
>>142384017
>>142384064
>>142383831
I miss handpainted bakground T_T
Digital art is so lifeless
>>142383894
the little mess ups give the art so much more character.
it's like a hand carved table vs an IKEA table.
![[Yellow-Flash]_Berserk_03_[720p][4E3135AC].mkv_snapshot_03.30_[2016.03.29_20.52.29].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OTadcUj.jpg "[Yellow-Flash] Berserk 03 [720p][4E3135AC].mkv snapshot 03.30 [2016.03.29 20.52.29]")
>>142369290
>Original Berserk
>Animation
![mkv_snapshot_09.22_[2016.06.04_01.24.20].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/QlkblgJ.jpg "mkv snapshot 09.22 [2016.06.04 01.24.20]")
Here you go Lovefag
![the.tale.of.the.princess.kaguya.2013.1080p.bluray.x264-psychd.mkv_snapshot_01.11.03_[2014.12.10_11.08.04].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/xt2sA31.jpg "the.tale.of.the.princess.kaguya.2013.1080p.bluray.x264-psychd.mkv snapshot 01.11.03 [2014.12.10 11.08.04]")
Kaguyahime looks amazing and it's coloured digitally. The backgrounds are traditionally painted of course, which is typical for a Ghibli production.
>>142383894
it's not art
art comes from artist's heart and brain
right now they just control+z until they accidentally get something that looks "right" to them
![mkv_snapshot_20.47_[2016.06.04_01.27.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/IjdOXr8.jpg "mkv snapshot 20.47 [2016.06.04 01.27.37]")
>>142384165
>>142369478
That era's color palette was garbage. Everything had dullness to it.
>>142369290
why don't you make an anime and hand draw it? see how it goes for you, entitled faggot
>>142384165
something about this one seems off, looks blurry
>>142384229
i want to puke
>hurr but they use wacom tablets now
No, no they don't.
You know what kind of investment it'd be for a studio to both supply everyone with those and spend ages training new recruits that come from different production pipelines?
The manual method is still more efficient compared to digital.
>>142384165
You sure that's traditional painted background? There's at least some effects on it.
>>142384239
Yeah, the recent special effects in anime really adds to digital animation. All the 2000~2007 was a bit plain.
With some exceptions of course. Though I can also appreciate the plainess of it, like in GTO etc
>>142384140
As someone who actually makes tables, it's like giving someone a hammer and a chisel and expecting a masterpiece, vs. giving someone a lathe, planer, miter saw and jointer and expecting a masterpiece.
More tools = easier production = overall better product
It can also be used to mass produce shitty things, but its not about the tool, its about how it is used. Eventually it comes down to whether or not someone is going to put the time in to create something beautiful.
>>142384222
Sorry, but painting by numbers isn't exactly art from the heart and brain either.
>>142384281
The switch to digital key animation is happening slowly but surely. It's only a matter of time before it becomes the industry standard.
>>142383840
>>142383894
>>142384088
None of those things were implied. This is an agreement.
>With digital, it's simply a matter of efficiency, which in a world of TV anime, tight schedules, and borderline mass production level of a bloated industry, it was the most efficient move once it had become normal
>but just like any medium, making it good requires intuition, talent, and a basic understanding of the fundamentals
>>142384222
That's not what art means. It's such an arbitrary concept, sticking with the term 'creative expression' is normally better anyways. Also, only inexperienced hacks can't do digital lines except on accident, such as people 5 seconds into art school.
Many companies that made traditional animation supplies like pencil and paint already went out of business because everyone uses computer now.
It's a shame.
Computer will never beat handpainted water color art
>>142384375
What the fuck? They make plenty of little strokes when doing digital?
>>142383831
Looks extremely gaudy
>>142384239
Just like life.
>>142384484
>the perspective on the tower
That hurts
>>142384500
I think it depends on the artist.
>>142384500
Digital animator can't draw for shit
>>142384557
Better than you, boi
>>142384375
Very ugly line art.
![mkv_snapshot_07.06_[2016.06.04_01.39.34].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/OMqbXOm.jpg "mkv snapshot 07.06 [2016.06.04 01.39.34]")
>>142384229
>>142384724
Not like it'll matter once it goes to the inking stage.
Not me because contrary to Disney or Pixar, they are trying to blend traditional animation and CGI together, and it works better and better. If CGI can allow them to insert pure sakuga scenes in their series instead of 'common' animation like they are doing recently, I'm OK with it.
>>142369290
I for one welcome our new CG overlords
never understood all the jerking off people do to muh hand drawn anime
>>142381943
This is not your safespace fag
>>142384761
>inking digitally
Yeah, it will end up looking like shit anyway.
Why even try?
![mp4_snapshot_23.23_[2016.06.04_01.48.00].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/39byYOi.jpg "mp4 snapshot 23.23 [2016.06.04 01.48.00]")
>>142384746
>>142372766
>>142373314
>>142373692
>>142374323
you do realize that someone who makes good looking digital art is a good artist right? it doesn't matter what the process is, only the end result. if someone makes a shitty piece of art when they tried harder than a digital artist, it's still a piece of shit
>Wah, why can't anime be like the good ol' days!
>Arrgh! Curse studios for using modern technology!
I'd take CGI and After Affects over all the shitty QUALITY of 70s-90s hand drawn™ anime. It's time to take your nostalgia goggles off.
>>142384220
Here.
>>142384921
I think that some recent productions have really made the digital line art great, with a more traditional feeling, like
>brush lines (Haikyuu sometimes, Lupin sometimes)
>inconsistent lines (Gundam G-Reco, Osomatsu-san)
>or very clean precise lines (Kyoto Animation)
![mp4_snapshot_03.01_[2016.06.04_01.50.39].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/sZQ4gHz.jpg "mp4 snapshot 03.01 [2016.06.04 01.50.39]")
>>142385050
>>142372306
My little anon can't be this delusional.
>>142384811
>>142384878
>>142384963
why are you posting stills? i thought the idea was to discuss whether the animation looked better, anime is a moving medium so making a nice painting is pretty, but not very relevant to the overall product
>>142385071
you do realize that entire conversation never referred to qualitative adjective good right? It referred to being an artist take your shitty rhetoric else were
![mp4_snapshot_09.28_[2016.06.04_01.53.38].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/U9lmNED.jpg "mp4 snapshot 09.28 [2016.06.04 01.53.38]")
>>142385137
>>142369705
not sure what the context of this webm is to the argument, but god damn that looks beautiful
almost makes me want to watch kyoani
>>142385180
so you agree that digital art can be as good as, and is as legitimate, as traditional art? because nothing else besides the quality thing created is relevant when discussing art
>>142385315
stop trying to necro a previous argument about being artist and deflect it into good art just so you feel you win
>>142385165
But anime is a visual medium so still are fine too.Go be a dick somewhere else if you followed the last post some were talking about the beauty of traditionally made backgrounds.
>>142385104
As for the webm, I wonder how they do these kind of brush-like kind of lines. Do they scan brushes themselves?
>>142384375
https://sakuga.yshi.org/data/5f888bce33f63f1f6195e03d080762e0.mp4
>>142385416
>it actually looks worse colored
SASUGA DIGITAL COLORING
![[UTW-Vivid]_Suisei_no_Gargantia_-_12_[h264-720p][904D0D0F].mkv_snapshot_19.34_[2013.06.24_22.46.27].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/UdLjEWv.jpg "[UTW-Vivid] Suisei no Gargantia - 12 [h264-720p][904D0D0F].mkv snapshot 19.34 [2013.06.24 22.46.27]")
>>142385410
>Do they scan brushes themselves?
I'd say so, that's probably how Yoshimichi Kameda's ink brush style shows up. That Haikyuu sequence could have used digital brushes too, it's hard to say.
>>142385416
fuck, this looks somewhat familiar
i saw the full version in a "forced" animation thread when i was looking for good anime webms
>>142385416
A guy who worked at Pierrot said in 2005 that Toei was already using tablets, so it's not new, is it?
>>142385104
The Lupin sample of line art, more "inconsistent" than "brush" in this one
>>142385589
Raw key animation almost always looks better than the final product as there is less detail to distract you from the lines.
>>142385644
>A guy who worked at Pierrot said in 2005 that Toei was already using tablets, so it's not new, is it?
That's Shingo Fujii's animation, he's not part of Toei. Most of the studio's output still seems to be done with pencil and paper anyway.
Is this entire thread just the OP ranting about his tradition and shit? Is he autistic?
>>142385665
What the fuck am I reading?
>>142369290
>This is pretty much Op
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Gv61zBZacpo
>>142369290
Modern animation =/= CG you nigger.
Both have their obvious ups and downs. For example much of the older cel animations have these very obvious still image backgrounds and you could always tell the difference between something that is about to be animated and something that's never going to move. No sway in the trees no movement in the grass.
And of course lots of old animation was done cheaply and features tons of still images that are not animated at all, ore are just zoomed into or move into frame from the top. Personally I find that annoying as shit. But of course there also used to be some really high quality old stuff.
New stuff on the other hand generally looks better put together. The backgrounds look like the same artwork as the foregrounds and I think that's a huge improvement. But if you have a drawn show and suddenly mix in CG it usually looks terrible. (looking at you god eater) But CG in itself isn't all that bad either. Just look at expelled from paradise, when it's ALL CG it doesn't come across quite as terrible.
In short: shit animation was always shit, back then and is still now.
>>142369290
Dude, do you even know the meaning of "animation"? CGI isn't animation, it's just the use CG-generated models, and they are everywhere in anime nowadays to cut costs. Besides, not EVERYTHING in CG is shit. Look at the recent Bubuki Buranki, they definitely tried to do something quite convincing. Of course, anime doesn't have the same budget as videogames and those mesh styles that don't go together so CGI does look awful most of the time. But THAT'S NOT ANIMATION.
>>142385993
Fuck you. Don't disrespect Merle, God rest his soul.
I don't hate digital but I think a lot of modern anime has some pretty shitty backgrounds. A lot of the time it looks like a visual novel.
>>142386158
>The backgrounds look like the same artwork as the foregrounds and I think that's a huge improvement.
That's simply because they removed the details from the backgrounds.
>>142386403
>it's just the use CG-generated models
What do you mean by 'use'? It's the ANIMATION of CG generated models.
>>142386548
WAIT MERLE DIED!
>>142389613
Yes RIP
Where were you srsly
>>142389613
Have you been under a rock? He's been dead a few weeks.
>>142372075
>absolutely perfect frame
>'lets put fucking lens flare on it for no fucking reason'
KYOANI FINDS A WAY
>>142375962
10 frames per second is nowhere near a high framerate, anon
>>142391420
It looks more cinematic.
>>142391516
Can't remember a single good movie that used this amount of lens flare in every scene
>>142391604
Euphonium doesn't use excessive lens flare all the time either.
>>142369705
You retards. CGI is completely fine as long as it looks good and doesn't look completely robotic like
>>142369290
In the hands of a god tier animator you can get some really special stuff with digital at much less hassle thanks to onion skinning though
>>142392478
>watching this with sound
>>142369290
shitserk is going to be garbage and /a/ will defend it anyway because "muh overrated manga". The same happened with parasyte.
>>142392478
>onion skinning
Care to elaborate?
>>142392542
>defend it
People were already mocking since the visuals were released.
>>142392552
The digital equivalent of a light table.
>>142369705
pretty much the same, it's just bright colors
>>142392552
>>142392650
With digital animation programs you can see the previous frames as an overlay while working on new ones which makes it easier to smoothly animate.
This combined with the fact that they can actually play their animation back at the perfect frame rate whenever they want while working means that theoretically you can produce a more consistent quality of animation.
It also means they can be more risky and daring with their animation because of these safety nets, meaning we can get stuff like this:
https://sakuga.yshi.org/post/show/4191/animated-debris-effects-explosions-fighting-liquid
>>142392932
>With digital animation programs you can see the previous frames as an overlay
You can't do that with traditional animation, right?
>implying
>>142370377
>trying to reason with a hxh underageb&
>>142393101
Not as well.
There are just some things better left hand-drawn. Western or Eastern.
>>142393385
How?
>>142393433
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Light_table
>>142393553
I know what a light table is.
I just want to know why you think it doesn't work as well as onion skinning.
Have you ever animate with animation software or light table?
>>142391516
I want to watch a shitty sol to derive lesbian fantasies from not an even shittier jewwywood fuckaround. All the lens flare is fucking doing is breaking my focus, and reminding me I'm in this shitty 3d world.
What's this "forced" animation meme I keep hearing about? What are they talking about?
>>142393897
It's like rape.
>>142386116
Me on the right
>>142394034
I'd like to make you an the girl next to you squeal with my big germanic cock.
>>142393917
Explain further
>>142393663
(I'm not the guy)
I already animated with an animation software, but even when it's supposed to be more accurate than with traditional tools (light table), my successive lines are all wiggly. It's hard to master.
I think that with a light table you can be more accurate since you have more the feeling of the tip maybe.
>>142369290
Enh, I dunno. It's pretty good. Too bad the Japs FUCKING SUCK AT IT.
>>142399358
I guess in the 3d animation department the American and Japanese roles are reversed. The Japs are just trying to sell their product en masse often in subpar quality though its cheaper, while the Americans are highly specialized and create the highest quality products on the planet though its very expensive.
>>142399358
My brethren of 3 Dimensions
>>142372013
>runs slightly to the right
>goes slightly to the left
WEW
>>142369290
Whatever happened to soundtracks? I went from watching Robotech Macross to Macross Delta. Yes, Delta has some good songs, and it's it's own thing, but does no anime use sound cues and soundtracks anymore? Is it just consigned to being an 80s thing? Whatever happened to galvanized music?
>>142370027
what are you trying to say, retard?
They opt to computer usage in post production is simply to reduce time and cost. You won't get as much anime as you do now if they still stuck on using cels.
>>142399251
>you have more the feeling of the tip maybe
lewd
Today's anime have shit perspective, everything looks flat as fuck
>>142399961
>not preferring less anime for better overall quality
kill yourself
![[HorribleSubs] Hibike! Euphonium - 11 [720p].mkv_snapshot_07.57_[2016.04.26_17.51.24].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/isH40Y2.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Hibike! Euphonium - 11 [720p].mkv snapshot 07.57 [2016.04.26 17.51.24]")
>>142400146
DoF stops that but people are too stupid to look past "it's blurred" and refuse to look at how it makes the bigger picture look way better. Look at this >>142395433. Good lighting can also do wonders, but again, people can't look past "hurr filters".
>>142400371
It's really too bad that animation like that is wasted on schlock.
>>142400394
And it's a tragedy that a good little brain like yours is wasted on such shit opinions
>>142400412
If that's supposed to make me reconsider my evaluation it didn't work.
>>142400441
it's bantz, your opinion is whatever you want it to be
>>142388299
No, it's because they are drawn at the same time. They're not drawn by 2 different artists at different times.
>>142400641
I don't get what you mean.
Still, if you can't tell the difference between the moving objects and the background ones it's because you're a bit blind and that overall background have lost details.
Though you're right that without the cel superposition, it helps.
It looks like shit because they simply do not understand how to use filters. Look at happens to the frame from 6:22 to 6:30:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=D-YgIJRa70Q
That horrible bloom completely destroys the coloring and the contrast. And this is Madhouse we're talking about, which is amongst the best names in the business.
>>142401298
>And this is Madhouse we're talking about, which is amongst the best names in the business.
Madhouse certainly is not known for their digital team.
>>142400394
You don't know what that word means.
>>142391420
Looks terrible without the filter
>>142384017
>>142384064
Is this Dragonball? Anyone have those in a better resolution? Would make good Wallpapers.
>>142369290
Mm. Berserk's animation was pretty at the time. Graphic too, considering that it was done by the same folks who've made Pokemon for the last twenty-some years.
I really like wild stuff like this.
https://youtu.be/Px9FvddtgpM
A reminder that Square Enix the only ones in Japan who can do not ugly CGI. Everything else is complete shit.
>>142402197
Dragon Ball and Z yeah, really great backgrounds.
I don't think it would be good wallpapers though, too grainy and 4:3, also the bluray remaster of DBZ (the Level Sets) isn't perfect either, a bit blurry on some parts, looks good animated but the still not that much at full res.
>>142402299
>the same folks
That means nothing you know.
The guys who made Dragon Ball aren't the same who make Dragon Ball Super, even more if there's 30 year of difference.
The team that made Berserk 1997 isn't the same that make Pokemon. Also Berserk was already cheap at the time, Evangelion was 2 years before, Sakura and Bebop 1 year after.
Still, the art direction is quite good, and the soundtrack is of the most magnificent. It holds quite well imo despite the poor animation. The numerous harmony shots are notable too.
![[AnimeNOW] K-Project - 11 [BD 720p AAC] [3FCC5214].mkv_snapshot_18.58_[2016.05.28_09.01.37].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/TTR1DO4.jpg "[AnimeNOW] K-Project - 11 [BD 720p AAC] [3FCC5214].mkv snapshot 18.58 [2016.05.28 09.01.37]")
>>142369290
>Why is modern animation shit?
>handpicks the worst possible example
>>142384149
Why did Casca lye on the ground in the middle of a fight? How did that stop Corkus and the others?
Anime is better now.
Better and more sophisticated. On point too. You Luddites should realize that better tech means better animation.
For example, we hardly have loose cells or out of place layers. A lot of layers could be put on top of each other. Lighting has also improved. Lewd shiny thighs wouldn't have been possible in old cel animation. So are bloom effects (although some purists hate that)
I love these advancements. No more limited movement.
Lens flares galore, sure. Of course there are cons. Visually speaking, though? Enchanting is the first word that comes to mind.
We (that is, they) work faster as well. In truth, there's an influx of anime nowadays. Tons of series. Hentai too.
Amazing strides in technology shouldn't be ignored because of your nostalgia.
Greatness can be seen in the latest works out there. Intense visuals. Realistic backgrounds. Luscious movement.
>>142403042
Hentai is, was, and always will be animated like garbage.
Exceptions include rare doujin works published on DLSite and DMM.
Is this the thread were people who have only seen less than 10 anime from the nineties are here to mock the foolish whom try to reason with them?
I can play that game - I hate old animation, anything from the 40's to the 90's suck.
https://a.pomf.cat/ikaeqm.webm
>>142403042
Fuck you.
>>142403042FINDS
>>142382061
>isn't a jew studio
>adapts all their own IPs so they can maximize profit
Come on, anon.
>>142403042Threadly reminder that you should stop posting that because it's a thing.https://www.fictionpress.com/s/3206139/1/
>>142403042
Utter bullshit. No cels mean less hard work and care is done to make anime. Anime can now be done at a push of a button, making it more of an assembly-line of sorts. Blasphemy. Lighting effects is the best you can come up with? Eighties anime involved loads of planning in advance to make a scene work. Tons of line tests. Of course, there's also quality control. Comparing that to the instant gratification of today's anime is nothing short of disgusting. Old anime has soul. New anime is nothing more than paint-by-the-numbers nonsense. Few anime nowadays stand out. Entertainment by otaku standards is lame. Shitty harems? SOLs?
>>142403166
That seems really fun though - you seem to be conflating poor video quality with poor craft quality
>>142403479
This is from 1935 - the pinnacle of animation, anything after is bad.
>>142403042
>Anime is better now.
Quality doesn't change. Is it a movie? It's going to be great. Is it an OVA? It's going to be solid. Is it a TV show? You sure as hell better have some great talent.
>Better and more sophisticated. On point too. You Luddites should realize that better tech means better animation.
That depends entirely on the artists. Old and new animation was bad and good. No matter how many cherrypicked examples someone comes up with on either side, it's about the same regardless.
>Lighting has also improved
Chromatic aberration and color correction are hardly improvements. Hand-done lighting is always better in a drawn medium solely because when you do things by hand, they should be done by hand. It gives things more character and more consistency.
>Lewd shiny thighs wouldn't have been possible in old cel animation
This is literally the only true statement, as digital coloration is more versatile than ink.
Bloom is good to make things look shiny. However, it's misused to make shit painful to look at 90% of the time. It's also not very different from the hand-done effects back in the day.
Movement wasn't that limited outside of mass-production. The same applies for today.
>Lens flares
>Enchanting
That's not necessarily a good thing. You call it an influx, someone else can call it mass-production or assembly line.
Quantity =/= Quality.
It's not that they're amazing as much as it that they're another direction. Later traditional animation, particularly in the late '90s had relatively high technical quality because the industry had almost 50 years of development in Japan. The move to digital was like pressing the reset button, so we're back in the late '70s/early '80s now.
Beauty is in the eye of the beholder. Intensity is nothing new. Realism is irrelevant to animation. Luscious movement is nothing new.
>>142403595
You're responding to a meme pasta
>>142403595
>Better and more sophisticated. On point too. You Luddites should realize that better tech means better animation.
That depends entirely on the artists. Old and new animation was bad and good. No matter how many cherrypicked examples someone comes up with on either side, it's about the same regardless.
Go make that with cels https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=T9B0MQ9wv64
>>142403306
>>142403595
>people replying to obvious pasta
You people are so ass blasted for every criticism that you fail to open your eyes on the bigger picture.
Thank you for giving insensitive for him to post the pasta again.
>>142403595
OVA is not a measure of quality, just a distribution platform. There are more shitty, poorly animated OVAs out there than well animated ones.
>>142403714
>talks about animation
>posts obvious CG
I always get sad when I see these threads
A board dedicated to an animated medium displaying this little understanding of it hurts to watch
>>142403865
Get to the point
cel or digital?
Can someone post the French Satelight backgrounds to have some counterpoint for CGI created backgrounds.
>>142403911
Both sides are idiotic.
>>142404041
And you aren't? I mean it's not like you have contributed anything to the topic
>>142403911
>false dichotomy
>>142404053
Most of what there is to say has been said.
>>142404053
Nobody has contributed to the topic in the past 10 years.
It's just shitflinging and people defending the era they grew up on, both having their merits and flaws, and ultimately being a matter of personal preference.
>>142403849
That's why it's more sophisticated. You dumbass
>>142403800
It's a distribution platform that warrants sales, so the more decent studios use a bigger budget which in turn increases sales even further in many cases.
It's not guaranteed to be the case, sure, but statistically, you'll find above average animation quality in a lot of products by well-established animation studios.
>>142404296
There's nothing more sophisticated about using an entirely different medium in an obnoxious way. If it's a different medium, it doesn't matter in the slightest to drawn animation.
>>142404376
You're a retard, forget it.
Just a hint, I'm talking about that long sequence shot here. All the background animation you want can hardly be as sophisticated as this one. Animation isn't purely a matter of drawn by hand or not.
>>142399251
I'll add to this and say that this id the reason why anime will probably never go full digital.
Having experience in traditional animation, it's near-impossible to supply an entire team with tablets and train them in its proper usage in a timely and cost-effective way.
So instead of forcing that, one just works with the medium everyone knows and has to know - traditional pencil.
The process afterwards did change, be it for the better or the worse I'll leave to the individual to judge, but from a production and artistic standpoint, I'd say that it allows us to carry over the original vision easier instead of compromising.
Compromises kill the man.
>>142404103
>>142404139
So you are a retard with nothing to say except "i hate you all!!! :("
Good god. Get out of my thread.
>>142404485
Not him, but a piece of advice.
Sometimes, and only sometimes, people not understanding what you meant is not due to the slowness of their mind, but due to one's inability to properly articulate both intent and message.
>>142404664
I got plenty things to add to the topic, none of which are as basic as "x is great and y is shit" which even 12-year-olds grew out of, yet we experience here on a daily basis.
>>142404775
>I got plenty things to add to the topic
Yet the only thing you do is be a smug poser
>>142404683
Yeah sorry. But if we talk about potential, digital wins on all fronts. Whether it is easier and faster to produce for the same result, or the ability to create more intricate storyboards or complex things like this "background animation" made in CGI I posted.
Though I tend to prefer the charm of traditional animation (I'm also the one who posted the batch of traditional backgrounds).
Digital animation, if not entirely eaten by 3DCGI or cheap flash animation, has still ways to evolve and could in the end emulate perfectly the traditional, only in better.
After that, it's a matter of trend. I tend not to like the abuse of effects like in ufotable. I like KyoAni but they tend to fall in this recently too, even if >>142369705 can be interesting results.
I was curious once, wondering if there was still an anime that used cel. I found this http://www.animenewsnetwork.com/news/2007-08-29/sazae-san-is-last-tv-anime-using-cels-not-computers
What caught my interest in this article in the end is not the fact that Sazae-san still used cels long after everyone ceased, but this quote from the guy:
>The subtle flickering of lines adds warmth to the images. It gives the viewers a sense of familiarity and security.
And I have to say, I totally agree. I think someone said kind of the same thing earlier in the thread (or in another, there was a few threads on this topic before).
The digital animation can reach a level of completion that you could call perfect, but the traditional, even when near perfect (to understand, in a photo-realistic way, like GITS 1995 for example), still holds something in it that feels handmade >>142384017
That might be the charm of Ping Pong The Animation, because the lines are all wiggling and all, you know it's not aiming for clean, soulless perfection.
>>142400210
>wanting animators to literally suffer more than they already are
>>142405143
They knowingly chose their path. They're true heroes.
>>142391420
>it's so dense
>>142405021
Being the one who complained, I can just say you put this very clearly and reasonably
10/10
>>142392478
Why is Luluco's dad fighting that thug?
>>142405021
Ping pong is cheap flash animation tho
>>142369705
You either love or hate KyoAni
>>142406530
Still a nice change of pace imo
>>142406530
Flash animation, not cheap. Cheap is the likes of (US) cartoons.You could also include the short 5 minutes anime that are trendy these times.
Anyway "flash" is not especially accurate here it's just the memeword to use for ultra cheap looking animation ala South Park.
>>142406731
Well actually you're right Ping Pong's animation is not super great either even if there are fun effects and sometimes interesting parts. But that's one of the case when the word "sophisticated" used earlier works perfectly, when you can do cool things with digital and you wouldn't really be able to do that with cels, for example the manga panel-like framing and all.
>>142406731
Parts of Ping Pong were literally tweened with Flash form transformation though. Science Saru twitter was posting pics and videos of the process back then
>>142406883
Yeah, that's Flash. Good, interesting use of Flash.
That's not what I meant when using "Flash", I meant "cheap" but wanted the emphasize it.
Ping Pong is more elaborated, sophisticated.
>>142406731
>Cheap is the likes of (US) cartoons
Like Adventure Time? Yuasa and his studio made an AT episode using the exact same techniques they used in Ping Pong and it looked just like very other AT episode.
>>142406927
Ping Pong is elaborate in a more design/filmmaking sense. Animation wise it's a rushjob with a few choice scenes of good animation that don't cover a lot of runtime relative to the show as a whole.
>>142406931
No like South Park or some older shows where the characters feels like they slide on the screen rather than walking/moving by themselves. Or maybe newer, very cheap shows like the new Powerpuff Girls.
Adventure Time is also cheap in some way though. But I've not watched it enough to judge. Still, I agree that Adventure Time can be nice and use very well it's clean and simple, superflat design.
I know for the episode directed by Yuasa, that's not the point though is it?
>>142406981
Some people extend the "animation" word to cover what you say. And since storyboarding is still a big part of animation, I think they are not wrong to do so, then I'm also using "animation" in that sense too.
But yeah if you want, there are only few scenes that feel "sakuga" tier.
>>142380459
>The late 90's had the best balance between hand drawn and digital coloring
Digipaint didn't start until 2001. All 90's was cell.
>>142380459
Orphan's artworks are really neat.
Do someone know who draw this one? I like the particularities of the design, lineart and all, it reminds me of someone but I don't know.
>>142408037
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=c7DNnVSfyR4
I've never seen Orphen, but this opening is a fantastic piece of solo key animation.
>>142408130
That's great!
>>142407091
>South Park or some older shows
You might be thinking of newgrounds flash animation, buddy. Aslo, you do realize that South Park's looks are intentional and that they actually put quite the effort to animate it, right?
Anyways, if your point is that you prefer old animation because lines don't flicker enough in modern anime, then you're not really talking about animation, but about certain look which can and has been replicated in modern anime.
>>142408302
>has been replicated
where?
![[HorribleSubs] Etotama - 01 [1080p].mkv_snapshot_15.04_[2016.06.04_10.15.52].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/nPQTYgG.jpg "[HorribleSubs] Etotama - 01 [1080p].mkv snapshot 15.04 [2016.06.04 10.15.52]")
I'm just curious to those complaining about the use of CG what your thoughts on Etotama are? Love it or hate it.
https://jii.moe/V1IEfCoQW.webm
Etotama uses CG completely separate from it's traditional side so it's full use like as of recent Arpeggio, Sidonia, or Ajin.Now I would argue that while it was still janky that Ajin was quite an improvement for Polygon from Sidonia. It seems like they rendered it a lot better. I also think the 'earthly lighting' really helped the overall look opposed to the dark 'Outer Space lighting' that Sidonia had. I thought it was a step in the right direction. Besides my point though.
Etotama was rendered at a much higher framerate so it was much smoother than what we're used to out of CG. It had a very natural flow of movement and it retained an 'anime artstyle' even if the ETM12 matches were in fact chibi compared to the traditional animated scenes. The 'camera work' was also great to me which I imagine is a lot easier to do in a CG world than a traditionally animated one, though there are still a bunch of great examples of 'camera work' in traditional.
Black Rock Shooter is another example of the same architecture, and say what you want about it overall but the CG portions were very impressive as well. Anime artstyle, good camera and effects, and well rendered. Not as well as Etotama to me, but still much better than other full CG works.
If more full CG work was done in the sense Etotama was I would be far more welcoming to it.
>>142408302
>south park
Those fucking nutjobs make each episode in like a week.
>>142408584
I like it, looks well-made. I wonder if the CG team had any former 2D animators doing supervision.
BRS had Hiroyuki Imaishi supervising so the action is full of Kanada-style action and posing in CG animation.
>>142408302
>Aslo, you do realize that South Park's looks are intentional and that they actually put quite the effort to animate it, right?
Yes.
My point is... I don't even know what it is, at first I was just saying that digital animation is in theory more powerful (better) than traditional animation.
I used Ping Pong as an example of digital animation with an "imperfect" touch that kinda emulate the warmth of older traditional made show (even without imitating the ink/paint style)/
My original point was not the actual quality of the animation; but the fact that we could at one point render traditional with digital.
As for the flickering, I'm not sure about the "theory" behind the "feeling" but I think you get what I mean, it's not as simple as a flickering.
>>142409220
Ping Pong doesn't emulate any "warmth" at all, it's as digital as they come.
The feeling people talk about comes from the film itself. This is a debate that happens in live-action circles as well. Of course there's also the cels as a material, the actual pigments used to paint, the dirt that got on the cels, the practical photography using actual light rather than generated effects, etc.
When you watch a purely manual film you're watching a projection of real stuff on a screen. When you watch a digital film you're watching a projection of a projection. I think it would do well for digital animators to embrace the abstraction of their craft instead of constantly trying to emulate the manners of cel anime. Something like Wanwa shows off the potential of digital animation much better than any lens flare-ridden "looks like a camera" shit could ever do.
>>142409855
>Something like Wanwa shows off the potential of digital animation much better
How? The short has lots of crazy good animation but that's down to the great animators who worked on it.
>>142408784
>BRS had Hiroyuki Imaishi supervising so the action is full of Kanada-style action and posing in CG animation.
I think Kanada style can help in hiding the flaws of CG animation in anime. But that obviously works only in fast action scenes.
I can safely say that the luddite stupidity and lack of understanding of both film and animation priciples in this thread has made my day just that much worse. Thanks.
>>142410987
Let them have their retarded opinions. They won't change anything. Anime will never go back to cels anyway.
>>142411565
>>142410987
>f-fuck u xd
Know how I can tell neither of you know fuck all about the subject and want to get off on appearing smug and self-important?
>>142412171
>>f-fuck u xd
Sure shows your own mature discussion skills.
>>142412412
Different anon, but try reading the thread. The derogatory nature of the post wasn't particularly helpful, but it had a point. Namely, the posts it was a response to lacked any argument whatsoever aside from baseless insults that contradict what they're addressing anyways.
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