So after hearing about it for years, I finally decided to start watching NGE yesterday after finding out that it was only 26 episodes. I just finished it a few minutes ago, and I rather enjoyed the experience. As nearly everyone I talked to recommended, I tried to pay more attention to the characters and nuances than I normally would for any other series. To my surprise, I found that this was a very rewarding experience. It was interesting to try to understand the personalities and thoughts of the characters from their interactions with each other and the various stressful situations which they all faced. It seems like something that would merit a second watching, if I had the patience for that sort of thing.
However, something that has been bothering me about this whole thing is in regards to its status as a 'classic'. I only enjoyed it as much as I did because I put a lot of thought and effort into focusing on it. I wonder, would I have the same kind of experience from watching any other show in the same way? Was it really the show itself that was special, or did I just enjoy it because I forced myself to experience it in a certain way? I only really gave it a chance because of its apparent status as a 'classic'. Does the show itself really deserve the acclaim that it has built up around itself, or is it just a positive-feedback loop of people like me who watch it intently due to the recommendations of others, enjoy that, and tell others to do the same. Does the show actually have all the deep subtle nuances that everyone talks about, or are we just reading too deeply into some things, like we're high-school English teachers over-analyzing every word of a book. What I'm asking is, is NGE itself as deep as people give it credit for, or could it easily be replaced by another decent anime if it had the same reputation and we were all willing to watch it and look for more than face value?
It was a massive success commercially, influenced a lot of subsequent anime production, and pretty much created the late night otaku slot for those later titles.
On a slightly unrelated note, I feel like I missed a lot from the show, specifically the last couple of episodes, due to me not being able to read Japanese. Every few seconds, the screen would switch to text, but it was in Japanese, so i couldn't understand it. This left me feeling like I was only getting half of a conversation. So, anyone know what was up with those last few episodes?
>>141279419
There are subs for these.
>>141279147
Eva was massive when it came out and changed everything. You're not watching it through 'nostalgia glasses'.
The characters are broken in a realistic way, for the most part, and acted out as such, whereas the drama in almost all modern anime is forced cringey shit. There were a couple of tropes in Eva, it's not innocent on that charge, but most of it played out akin to a film with actors, not 'fake anime personalities'. It was also quite mature in many themes.
>>141279419
Time constraints. The production got severely behind in the later episodes and they had to completely rewrite the last two episodes to make up for a lack of time. Also you need to watch End of Evangelion if you haven't already.
>>141279147
Not trying to troll (otherwise I would have made my own thread) but I seriously didn't life this show. Nor did I like Guren Lagann. I think I watched 15 episodes of NGE and dropped it. Giant robots fighting isn't my thing
>>141279147
>Was it really the show itself that was special, or did I just enjoy it because I forced myself to experience it in a certain way?
Do you watch most stuff with your brain off?
>>141279744
>I think I watched 15 episodes of NGE and dropped it.
Fuck i wish I had access to my reaction folder, because this is the biggest faceplant/lol I've had in a while. Episode 16 is universally known as the moment when the Eva plane-ride hits the Category 5 shit-storm. 1-15 builds the characters up like a nice castle made of wine glasses and 16-24 is someone throwing a bowling ball into it. Then nuking it with End of Eva.
Eva was never popular because of the 'Robots'. You dun goofed.
>>141280056
Your reaction is a bit disproportionate but I liked your analogy
>>141279744
>Giant robots fighting isn't my thing
>>141279696
> watch End of Evangelion if you haven't already.
Thanks, I'll do that. I felt like the ending was a little too inconclusive, so hopefully this will help.
>>141279765
Errr... Kinda? I mean, I'm obviously still alive and thinking about a show while I watch it, but I usually don't focus nearly as much on detail as I did when watching NGE
>>141279419
The good old Literal Translation Project rendering of the scripts is here -- http://plaza.harmonix.ne.jp/~onizuka/literal/evangelion.html
>>141280427
That image reminded me, was Rei replaced with a clone after she jihaded the angel in the cavern with a nuke? I remember that her eva and plug were pretty nearly annihilated, and everyone thought she was dead, but then she shows up soon after with only minor injuries. And then, upon seeing her room again, she said something about it being her first time seeing the place. But it was never confirmed onscreen that she was a clone.
(If this was explained in The End of Evangelion, ignore this post. I haven't seen it yet.)
>>141280056
Honestly I dunno man. I didn't really like any of the characters.
>>141280813
It's not. Souls in Eva are both actual things and transferable. So the clone you are referring to isn't actually a clone, it's still Rei, but in a new dummy body. The difference in her demeanor can be nailed down to two factors, which are minor memory loss due to a new body and possibly the reunification of her soul, which was split to control Unit-00.
>>141280813
Rei is toast after she self-destructs vs the ring of light angel, that's when the new one appears and Shinji visits her in hospital to find she'd motquite all there.
>>141281127
*she's not quite
>>141281106
>it's still Rei, but in a new dummy body.
Ohhh, that makes so much sense now. Does Rei know that she's been getting new bodies all along, or what? Also, are souls necessary to pilot an eva?
>>141281459
Yes and yes, all EVA Units possess souls, all of which are related to their pilots in some way.
>>141281459
AT fields are projections of the soul. Synching with the EVA is attuning to the mother's soul (or in EVA-00's case, a bit of Lilith's soul) resident in the EVA.
>>141281543
So how did the dummy plug work then? It was stated that they were based off of the clones of Rei, but it was also stated that the clones had no souls. So if a soul is required to control an Eva, and dummy plugs have no souls, how was a dummy plug able to control unit 01?
>>141281459
I think she begins to understand everything towards the end of the show, when she's salvaged into the final Rei body.
Yes, souls are necessary to pilot EVAs. Specifically it's the mothers of pilots' souls.
Now there's the whole thing with Unit-00 and the soul that is in that EVA. It's implied that a portion of Rei's/Lilith's soul was split and used in Unit-00. That could explain why Rei III started to act more "aware" and powerful (using her AT field in Terminal Dogma to negate Karwou's AT Field when he broke in there with Unit-02).
>>141281645
Sorry, I misunderstood. A soul isn't required to pilot Eva, they're only needed for the Evas themselves.
Has EoE been released in dual audio yet? I can't find it.
>>141281956
uhh yeah, you should be able to find it. legit copy or pirated though?
>>141282024
I can't find it in HD and dual audio on nyaa
>>141282124
try kickass
>>141279147
Just wait till you see the End of Evangelion, that's the real ending and a fucking classic movie.
>>141280253
If you were underwhelmed by 25 + 26, EoE is going to blow you away. Just get ready for everything you know to fly out the window.
>>141280056
This is a very accurate analogy.
>>141282519
hmmm, found one by bonkai77, any good?
>>141282791
Yep, that's the one I found. That'll do just fine
>>141282688
Is EoE a replacement for 25+26 or an addition?
>>141280056
16 was the giant ball of shadow right? If so that was an amazing episode.
>>141282791
Oh and I hope you enjoy it! I wrapped up the TV Series and was kinda upset with the whole "congratulations!" shit. EoE really was a great end to the series.
>>141282920
Think of EP 25+26 as instrumentality from Shinji's perspective. EoE, is more along the lines of the definitive conclusion.
>>141279744
the mecha isn't the point of NGE
also episode 15 is still in the buildup
>>141282880
Okay, cool, thanks. I'd just never heard of that encoder before. Strange that it's not on nyaa.
>>141280911
I feel you. The people in this thread are right to say that it's after episode 15 that the series really comes into it own, but I completely agree that the characters themselves just aren't that well written, despite the whole emphasis on psychoanalysis the series goes with. Even near the end, I couldn't just a fuck about Asuka's problems or what she thought of her mother, it just felt over dramatic in a way that left no genuine impact on me and I only came away feeling emotionally numbed by the whole things. I definitely hold that the fans tend to assume the series is way more concrete and rationally intelligible than it reasonably is.
>>141283324
You aren't supposed to give a shit about them because of their problems, you're supposed to give a shit about them because they're genuinely interesting and charming characters.
>>141283004
>Think of EP 25+26 as instrumentality from Shinji's perspective. EoE, is more along the lines of the definitive conclusion.
There really isn't much reason to think this. This is another one of those things that it's become a meme for fans to assume, despite there being no real evidence for it. It honestly does make more sense to see EoE as a replacement, as there's no clear way the events and character development in either match up to the other.
I just realized something on my second viewing. The point of the angels attacking are that they want Adam back, correct? Also they keep on getting smarter and more intelligent to communicate with humans after each battle, right?
>>141283496
>you're supposed to give a shit about them because they're genuinely interesting and charming characters
But I don't find them so. I don't have anything against them as people, but I do find the way they are presented makes their thought processes largely unintelligible, despite that the psychological issues they deal with are highly relatable. Because of this I can't get into them. For instance, I have little context for what Shinji's life was like before the events that are shown, and this makes it hard to get a sense for how typical his actions or motivations are in the context of his life, even despite the soul searching scenes. In many other series, this wouldn't matter that much, but in Eva it feels jarring.
Why are there so many Eva threads being made now?
>>141283957
>and this makes it hard to get a sense for how typical his actions or motivations are in the context of his life, even despite the soul searching scenes.
This is the entire purpose of the middle arc of the show. It's supposed to show the characters at their baseline before putting them through hell. You're supposed to assume that that is how they normal act.
>>141279630
I don't know if I'd go so far as to say they're realistic, but they're broken in a way that's much more nuanced and layered than most shows. I think that sense of being forced you get is prolly just that a lot of shows expect the edgy to be enough to characterize someone, instead of it being this functional, working part of their personality.
>>141281631
Who's soul linked with toji then?
Also whatever happened to him after his EVA was destroyed
>>141280253
End of Evangelion put me down for two whole weeks and this awful feeling came back often for more than one year after watching it.
Be prepared
>>141283587
I guess I shouldn't have worded it as it being from "shinji's perspective."
My corrected answer is "episode 25 and 26 from the TV series is the rushed ending, due to budget/time constraints. EoE is the retelling of episode 25 and 26."
>>141283496
But they're not interesting or charming. They're horribly two-dimensional, simple, stereotypical. The only one remotely interesting was Misato and that's why she's the best girl, but that's not saying much for this show. Everyone in this show are horrible, miserable assholes to each other and I know that was by design, but that doesn't make them "deep" or interesting.
>>141284899
>They're horribly two-dimensional, simple, stereotypical.
That's not true at all though. Each and every one of them exhibits a wide range of emotions and behaviors and none can be entirely described by a character archetype.
>>141284899
I'm totally with you on this. Eva's depth of characterization is in no way exceptional for anime and it is by for the most overpraised aspect of the show. Misato is arguably the exception, but even at the time there were a fair number of magical girl anime with characters at least as thoughtfully constructed as her, and I'd argue that even then she's not coherent enough a character to stand out.
>>141284899
Well that's just your opinion, man. NGE just isn't for you, no big deal, mate.
>>141284997
That's true of some of them, but it does apply to many of them, and if you disagree there are tons of series with characters with at least as much depth. It's important not to confuse depth of psychological significance with depth of character. Toji's interactions with Shinji are psychologically significant in that his bullying and reformation is more realistic and relatable "in its nature" than many other bully characters, but as a character Toji doesn't have that much depth to his thought process and there isn't much to reflect upon about him, nor are his motivations that strong or well thought out.
>>141279744
Kill yourself.
>>141285308
You aren't wrong, but to use a moderately important side character as an example for why a show has uninteresting characters just doesn't convince me. All of the mains have much more interesting interactions and characters than Toji does, and even the adult side characters are far more interesting than Toji.
>>141283717
I wouldn't say that's their main point. They ultimately aim to initiate 3rd Impact to wipe Lilith and us to make the world suitable for them. Now, I think getting to Adam's embryo is part of that plan. More so, they try to get into Terminal Dogma to initiate their version of 3rd Impact, just like how the humans got to Adam in Antarctica and caused 2nd impact. However, humans did that to reduce Adam's form to that embryonic state.
>>141284997
>Each and every one of them exhibits a wide range of emotions
How fucking delusional can you get? Wow, what a nostalgiafag. Asuka only has one type of response to anything Shinji does, Rei has the personality of a 2-by-4, Ritsuko is a total bitch, Gendo is the shrewd scientist/buisness-man, Kaji is a player. The only character who has something slightly resembling a character arc is Shinji, but it's only a slight change that happens before he slips back into his old ways. The only character with some nuance to them is Misato, but there are other, deeper, much more interesting female characters in other anime.
>>141284571
I had a very similar feeling. However, Shinji at least provided me a character I could project onto and empathize with when I was having a really hard time at that pint in my life, and definitely helped me in some way.
>>141279744
>15 episodes
You quit before you got to the parts that make it memorable.
>>141285520
>Nostalgiafag
I watched the show for the first time about a year ago
Anyways, you're still wrong. Asuka not only has a multitude of responses to Shinji but her attitude toward his changes significantly over the course of the show. Rei shows an unexpected response as soon as episode 5, and you've entirely missed the point of both Gendo and Kaji. I think you're the one who's delusional.
>>141279147
Have you ever thought that you should watch every show like how you watched Eva?
Art is more rewarding when you don't just consume it like a brain-dead vegetable.
Forcing yourself to "experience it in a certain way" is just called having a more critical and analytical way of thinking when watching a show.
Evangelion is good because there's more than what's at "face value".
Are there other anime that have this trait? Yes.
Are most of them better or as good as Eva? No.
>>141285520
I think you are oversimplifying the characters unfairly. I don't remember much but Gendo was obviously more than than a "shrewd scientist" from his relationships with Shinji, his mom, etc.
>>141285525
>that pint in my life
alcoholism's one hell of a condition
>>141279744
You fucked up.
>>141283717
Just based on the series itself, I'm not convinced the Angels had a common motivation at all. Like, Leliel appears, swallows an Eva, and hovers in place for 16 hours examining what she's caught without making any move on the Geofront. If Sahaquiel cared at all about preserving the prize or having enough left of herself afterward to claim it, her plan is the riskiest thing anybody attempts all war. Gaghiel doesn't even approach Tokyo-3, she only responds to a briefcase and an Eva being dragged right in front of her nose. And the smartest Angel may even have been Iruel all the way back in 13, attacking in a way not even answerable by an Eva.
OP here. I just finished watching End of Evangelion, as per everyone's recommendation. I still have so many questions though. First off, where is everyone getting all this extra information about the universe of the series? People are talking about stuff like Lilith being the soul in Eva 0, Rei's soul fracturing, and stuff like that. The name 'Lilith' is only said about 3 times in the whole show, how are people figuring all this stuff out? Secondly, where was Adam this whole time? Adam was involved in the whole instrumentality shenanigans at the end, right? But where was he throughout the whole series? Lastly, why was Asuka there with Shinji at the end, and why was Shinji choking her out?
And I'm not even going to start asking about wtf was up with Rei.
>>141286227
>she only responds to a briefcase
What was in the briefcase though? I don't recall that ever being explained, only that it had something to do with instrumentality.
>>141285520
>Asuka only has one type of response to anything Shinji does
Look into Asuka and *why* she acts this way towards Shinji. Compare and contrast Asuka and Shinji and you will notice that though Asuka is about the polar opposite of Shinji, yet they actually are VERY similar.
>Rei has the personality of a 2-by-4
well, there's a reason for this. Don't get soo drawn into the lack of personality, but *why* she lacks some to begin with. Think of the circumstances that drove her to be the way she is in the series.
>Ritsuko is a total bitch
Again, there is a reason why she appears to be that way. The show covers her relationship with her mother and Gendo.
>Gendo is the shrewd scientist/buisness-man
Yes he is. Look into his relationship with his son and Yui, his speech to Yui/Rei/Kaworu during Instrumentality, and what happens shortly afterwards in EoE.
>Kaji is a player
He plays a good role in this show. look at the insight he provides to Shinji, throughout the series.
Look dude, Anno had his own vision for the show. I don't think character arcs were the main focus in it. He presented us these characters who were all fucked up in their way. You zero in on Shinji in the beginning and think, "wow, this dude is messed up." Through out the series you notice that in fact, everyone is messed up in their own ways. Stop drilling in soo deep into the characters also man. Just watch and reflect or some shit. Look at the series in a bigger scope and perhaps you might start liking it, who knows.
>>141279147
It's not really a 'deep' anime, it's just pretty damn interesting and good. If it had any sort of message it wasn't a deep one, it was a very elemental one.
In short: It's not good because it's deep, it's good because it's interesting.
>>141279744
>Not trying to troll (otherwise I would have made my own thread) but I seriously didn't life this show. Nor did I like Guren Lagann. I think I watched 15 episodes of NGE and dropped it. Giant robots fighting isn't my thing
That's fair, personal taste does exist.
>>141286456
Adam is in the briefcase.
>>141285520
You're underselling a number of things, but I don't disagree with you.
>>141285717
Asuka is a tsundre with an overbearing desire to both be needed by and be better than others. That's her whole character pretty much summed up. I don't recall any display of behavior deeper than that. The stuff with her mother added on near the end doesn't make any of her earlier actions any more interesting.
> Rei shows an unexpected response as soon as episode 5
But what does this amount to? Her behavior is alien and her thoughts inexplicable. Even her interactions with Gendo are more about giving Shinji reason to be more perplexed and jealous of both of them than about adding intelligible depth to either. Eva does far more to imply the idea of the characters having more depth than we can understand than it does actually bestow complexity on them.
>it's another spoonfeed a newfag thread that will be hailed as the best we've had in a while
Is a man not entitled to the sweat of his shitposts?
>>141284036
Maybe a Re-run somewhere?
>>141284577
25+26 is sorta like Shinji accepting instrumentality and showed his experiences, EoE was him rejecting instrumentality.
>>141286484
reasons =/= depth
>>141284899
Would you mind providing examples of characters that are three-dimensional, complex, and atypical? Part of the reason that people call Eva a deconstruction of Super Robot anime is that it takes traditional anime tropes and character types and then rips them apart to expose their fragile inner psyches. If you could illustrate what you thought about them was simple and two-dimensional then perhaps we might be able to illuminate some things that you had missed.
>>141286809
>Asuka is a tsundre with an overbearing desire to both be needed by and be better than others.
Yes, but that's just a description of her character. Pretty much any character can be described in simple terms like this, but the interesting part comes from the complexities. Like the anon above said, considering why Asuka takes these actions is a good place to start, which is why the stuff with her mother is interesting, as it provides important context to her actions.
>But what does this amount to? Her behavior is alien and her thoughts inexplicable.
That's not really true though. It's pretty clear that Rei slapping Shinji in the face is because she has an attachment to Gendo, and we're even shown why she has that attachment. It's really not inexplicable in the slightest.
>>141287027
Shinji rejects Instrumentality in both endings
>>141287073
What does equal depth then?
>>141287073
Like I said, you're underselling things a bit, but I completely agree that having plot excuses for their lack of intelligible depth doesn't make them great characters.
Gendo is probably the most extreme example of this. The series more or less constantly implies that there's way more to him than meets the eye and that he might well know a ton of shit that the other characters aren't privy too which allows him to manipulate the situation into his bidding. Yet his real feelings on most matters are either utterly opaque or completely underplayed and we end up barely being able to tell is he is a genuinely uncaring person or to what extent he might be deliberately hiding his feelings or his core reasons for this, with only a few short quotes on this matter to make any sense out of. He *would* have to be incredibly complex in order to act the way he does, but we only get the vaguest idea of how.
>>141286383
>First off, where is everyone getting all this extra information about the universe of the series?
Most discussion comes from the show itself, the manga, and a game that has some info that is recognized as canon.
> People are talking about stuff like Lilith being the soul in Eva 0, Rei's soul fracturing, and stuff like that.
Rei talks about how her soul comes from Lillith, You also see that Shinji feel's Rei's presence in unit 00. Too long to get into in a muiltiple response post.
>where was Adam this whole time?
> Adam was involved in the whole instrumentality shenanigans at the end, right?
>But where was he throughout the whole series?
A brief history of Adam: Land in Antarctica, found by Seele, caused second impact, body reduced to embyonic form while it's soul is implanted used to create Kaworu, body shipped to an European Nerv Branch, stolen by Kaji, given to Gendo, implanted in Gendo's hand, Embyo stolen by Rei, Fuses with Lillith and causes third impact. Knowing its biography should answer all those questions.
>>141286809
>>141287250
TV Asuka isn't a Tsundere, at no point does she become dere towards Shinji. She becomes moderately more cooperative, but even at the end of EoE she's still hostile towards Shinji. Rebuild Asuka, however, is a different story.
>>141286383
>First off, where is everyone getting all this extra information about the universe of the series? People are talking about stuff like Lilith being the soul in Eva 0, Rei's soul fracturing, and stuff like that.
Through out the series, you are given explanation for stuff. With these said explanations and other implied messages, one could come to a likely answer on certain questions.
The soul inside Unit-00 was a big question that came up. We know that Yui's soul is in Shinji's EVA, and the maternal portion of Kyoko is in Asuka's EVA. This allows both to control their EVAs. But what about Rei and her EVA? Who's soul is in hers, she doesn't have a mother, right? It's never flat out answered for us by Anno, but it's implied that Lilith (Rei's very soul) is somehow connected to the soul used in Unit-00.
>where was Adam this whole time? But where was he throughout the whole series?
In the possession of Seele in the beginning (in an embryonic state from 2nd impact), until Kaji stole it and brought it to Gendo. Then, Gendo fused Adam to his hand to begin the Forbidden Ceremony. He wanted to become God, but Rei denied him that chance and she took Adam (Gendo's arm) and returned to Lilith to become a God.
>Adam was involved in the whole instrumentality shenanigans at the end, right?
Yes, to complete the Forbidden Ceremony to become a God. Adam has the Fruit of Life and Lilith has the Fruit of Knowledge, combine both and you become God.
>Lastly, why was Asuka there with Shinji at the end, and why was Shinji choking her out?
This was actually the subject in a thread from yesterday. Simply, she was brought into instrumentality and she rejected it also. Shinji choked her to feel the existence of another person. To confirm (make sure of) rejection and denial. Remember, he just got out of Instrumentality, so he probably didn't know if he was in the real world. who knows, maybe he was continuing where he left off, when he was choking her during instrumentality?
>>141287473
TV Asuka is a deredere, because she's 100% dere towards Kaji
>>141287358
Gendo's entire character is explained in EoE. He fell hopelessly in love with Yui and everything he does is done to reunite with her. The rest has to be implied, but Yui's dialogue with him seems to reveal that he genuinely didn't and moreover felt he couldn't love Shinji, and that he doesn't give a shit about anyone besides Yui.
>>141287569
Having to rely on a movie that came out 2 years after the show for any semblence of depth from the character Gendo is evidence of poor writing.
>>141287569
>Yui's dialogue with him seems to reveal that he genuinely didn't and moreover felt he couldn't love Shinji, and that he doesn't give a shit about anyone besides Yui.
how did you get this. EoE reveals that it's not that he didn't love Shinji but that he was scared of him because didn't know how to relate to anyone not named Yui.
>>141287727
The flashbacks reveal this too. what EoE adds is why he failed to be a father to Shinji. But his whole deal with people and Yui is there in NGE.
>>141279147
It's the Messiah myth done right. Several other works of art do this too (Dune, Harry Potter, etc) and it usually juzt werks.
Many other things make NGE great, but when it comes to basic plot, it's not insanely original.
>>141283587
thanks for pointing that out, i've always been a little been puzzled at everyone saying that when there is one small but crucial difference between 25-26 and eoe
>>141287860
But who's the messiah? Depending on how you see it there could be 3 messiahs.
The obvious one is Shinji as the MC entrusted to accept his destiny to save the world etc, etc...
Kaworu as the memetic 'gay space jesus' though to me on a deeper reading he comes off as more of a John the Baptist: The proto messiah who must awaken the real messiah and ultimatelly loses his head.
And then there's Rei, who is the one that actually dies for the sake of humanity, comes back to life and whose 'second coming' brings the end of times and start of a new age.
>>141288075
Does that really disprove his theory in any way?
But the actual answer is Shinji, because he's the main character.
>>141287531
Wow. That was amazingly insightful.
>>141287073
There isn't supposed to be a great amount of depth in these characters to begin with. In this series, you are presented these characters. Throughout the series, you are presented with background info on some of them and you ultimately see how they all interact with each other, until the fateful 3rd Impact happens. It's not super elaborate. It's more of an emotionally-driven story, than a super 2deep4u story. It's literally art.
I felt empathetic for the characters, but didn't observe every bit of them that was presented under a micro-scope. Just watching it and feeling what the characters were going through made it an enjoyable series to watch in my opinion.
>>141288075
I mean the fact that you have to bend backwards to make 3 messiahs makes it seem like the story doesn't fit the messiah myth archetype. As far as I know, the Christian imagery and motifs are purely circumstantial - Japanese still use crosses and etc. as fashion symbols even today. It's like the way westerners view Buddhism - totally exotic.
>>141288170
I wasn't disproving it, Just kind of adding to it, it's a good messiah story because it's not a straight forward one but a muddled one. With three legit candidates though I don't think Shinji gets the biggest claim just because he's the MC, in my opinion Rei & Kaworu have better claims to the title. And even if it's Shinji, you still get a complicated messiah. Humanity's savior is a kid so far off the deep end that on the opening movie he sexually asaults an unresponsive girl, and it's not even like that's so far from his character he also tries to kiss when she's asleep.
>>141287755
He tried. In his own impoverished way. Episode 1 is only their first meeting in 3 years because Shinji ran.
>>141288326
Sure, the christian Imagery was chosen because it's cool and exotic, but once that decision was made it's not only the imagery that they use, but the symbolism and some themes not as great insight into Christianity or Judaism itself but as elements to make their own story interesting.
>>141288272
Exactly how I felt. For all the extraordinary circumstances, I always saw it as a human drama at heart. Rebuild lacks all the subtlety and honesty that made the original so memorable.
>>141287841
>>141287569
>The rest has to be implied
Yes, and the issue is that's a heck of a lot to be left implied. If anything, this dialog reveals how little he was thought out at all and makes little real sense of his previous behavior beyond providing the most gross motivations for him.
>>141288326
And I don't really think it's bending backwards to make the story fit, just that they fake out who the story's messiah is. You think it's him because he's the main character and that's the obvious thing and the theme song is flat out telling you that it's him.
But then Rei fits better with all the trappings of a messiah figure: Immaculate conception, godly origins, free of original sin (no nudity taboo), dies for the sake of humanity, comes back to life, brings about instrumentality/rapture etc...
>>141289099
>Yes, and the issue is that's a heck of a lot to be left implied. If anything, this dialog reveals how little he was thought out at all and makes little real sense of his previous behavior beyond providing the most gross motivations for him.
What do you mean by this? He only has the one motivation, and it makes sense of essentially all of his actions. Which actions doesn't it make sense of?
>>141288272
>There isn't supposed to be a great amount of depth in these characters to begin with.
I'm happy that you're honest enough to acknowledge this. I feel that so much of the fanbase simply believes that, since they find the show's psychological aspects so fascinating, there just *must* be extraordinary depth to the characters even though this is actually a separate matter.
>>141289347
What is depth in characters if not said characters having interesting psychology?
Just finished rewatching Neon genesis for the 6th time. Here are a few thoughts:
First of all, the show is masterfully made. This is the one of those times when the budget restrictions are a blessing in disguise. There are so many little details hidden everywhere, from things in the background, to characters reacting to certain things, that are so well made, and foreshadow things to come. The show is also very subtle, when it needs to be.
2)the show is kinda unevenly balanced. the first arc of the show is very good. It introduces the characters, the setting an the problems that the characters face. I especially love some of the ending scenes in (the final scenes in episodes 4, 6 and 7 made me kinda emotional). The second arc aka the action arc is kinda meh. There are some subtle bits of character development there, but for a while, the show took it way too easy (also it contained the worst episode of the show). As for asuka, I don't care much for her. She is a good character, but I personally don't like her. And the final arc, where everything came tumbling down, was also great. I especially loved the last 2 episodes. They are such a great expirience and the last few minutes also make me emotional. Not as good as the first arc, but still really great.
Also, on that note. I like the end of evangelion movie a lot less than the end of the tv series. I have only watched it three times, and while it is a great movie, I don't personity care for it.
3) also, when i started to rewatch the show, I focused more on the characters, and less on the "deep symbolism" or the ongoing plot. Anno Writes great characters. Many of them feel really personal (to him and to me). Anno has the Asperger's syndrome, and all his characters display different mental conditions similar to aspergers. My family specializes in psychology, so I'm kinda familiar with everything Anno is showing trough his characters. Honestly, his characters are scary good.
(1/2)
![[Sephirotic] The End of Evangelion - 26 - My Pure Heart For You [BR-Rip 8bits x264 1080p AAC][MULTI][Eng-Pt-Ch-Ita-Fr-Spa-Rus-Ger-JAP] [625758A2].mkv_snapshot_02.58_[2016.05.08_21.55.21].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/q9xWOaE.jpg "[Sephirotic] The End of Evangelion - 26 - My Pure Heart For You [BR-Rip 8bits x264 1080p AAC][MULTI][Eng-Pt-Ch-Ita-Fr-Spa-Rus-Ger-JAP] [625758A2].mkv_snapshot_02.58_[2016.05.08_21.55.21].jpg")
>>141289144
It's still him, he's gifted dominion over all mankind and they're able to redeem themselves because he gives them the chance. It's not only him.
Have there been any more fucked up adolescent sexual acts in film than Shinji jerking it over comatose Asuka?
>>141289676
Probably Rei transforming Shinji and his mother into the fluid core of a mile-long bundle of nerves and sinking it into her pineal eyegina.
>>141289604
She gives it him said dominion the way gods gives dominion to man, he is not the messiah he's the stand in for humanity.
>>141287529
>maybe he was continuing where he left off
As far as Shinji knows he has killed Asuka several times throughout the movie. It was because of his inactivity that she got eaten alive, then he chocked her when she rejected him during instrumentality, then he killed her and all of humanity to create his world with nothing. The way I figure it he was trying to finish the job but realized that at that point it was like killing Misato or Rey, it was only him lashing out without solving anything.
>>141288075
I agree Rei is probably the one who fits the title the most, but its always Kaworu who gets the Jesus Christ symbolism. Even in EOE, he first appears right after a closeup of Misato's cross is shown. And the whole him being Adam thing.
>>141289960
man those are literally vaginas.
I know about the one in the head, how many more did that asshole put in?
>>14128939
As for the character development, Shinji, Rei and Misato have the best character development in the series.
Gendou, Ritsuko, Asuka, Fuyutsuki and to a lesser extent Kaiji, Naoko, Kaworu, Toji and Yui all have really good character development, even if some of their motives are revealed a bit late.
The kids from school, Seele guys, Asuka's mom, Maya, Makoto and Shigeru (Although they are an interesting freudian trio and a human counterpart to the Magi) have the least character development.
While I really like Shinji, Misato and gendou, Rei is still one of my favorite characters from the show. Her character development is so subtle, that the casuals don't even notice it. And they claim that she is an emotionless doll, when she is actually so much more. He starts out as an quiet and anti social, but very obedient and professional girl. But her character development is so powerful. A girl with a fake body and a false soul, who has nothing, gains a
Personality, emotions and maybe even her own soul, trough the instrumentality of her interactions with others. That is some really powerful stuff, but it's written in such a subtle way, that you really gotta observe her and everything she does from her introduction, to her death.
4) so yeah, I really enjoyed the show and it will always remain as my most
favorite anime ever, for the reasons I listed.
5) also, is the sub any good (I mean the jap dub)? I haven't watched it subbed yet (although I have watched it in 3 different languages, English being my favorite).
Also, the rebuild movies suck Ass, and they are an example of what happenes when you have michael bay, remake one of Stanley Kubricks classics. Action and style over characters and substance.
NgE 11/10
EoE 9/10
Rebuilds 1/10
Anno has unfortunately lost his way, but he left behind this gem I a show, that I can talk about for hours.
(2/2)
>>141290039
He gets it because in Shinji's eyes he is the savior.
In the eyes of Evangelion as a whole, Rei is the savior.
>>141290064
You've watched NGE in three different languages and not once in it's original language? Why?
>>141289960
>She gives him said dominion the way god gives dominion to man, he is not the messiah he's the stand in for humanity.
Sorry for the horrible grammar.
>>141290056
Just those as far as we get to see.
>>141290039
And in Eva Lillith is the one crucified.
>>141290161
>>141290056
After Gendo pulls his hand out of Rei's stomach, the closing wound looks like a vagina as well.
>>141290161
Unit 01 is also crucified.
>>141289676
Ok so let's run through the list shall we
> Misata wants to fuck Shinji for no reason other than she is a slut who can't control herself
> Shinji wants to fuck Rei, why? because she reminds him of his mom
> Asuka wants to fuck Kaji so god damn bad that she compromises her integrity to get his attention
> Shinji wants to fuck Asuka even though she is a manipulative bitch who honestly harbors no feelings for him other than contempt
> Rei is molested on a daily basis, or worse raped by Gendo even if she dies!
> Kowaru is the only person to love Shinji, this is at a time where homosexuality in Japan is straight up taboo
>>141290236
>Kowaru is the only person to love Shinji,
Only person to be able to tell him he loves him, that's different, plenty of people loved Shinji.
>>141289676
Hmm, idk if this counts as sexual, but there's the part where Rei and Shinji are naked during instrumentality and Rei is sitting on Shinji's groin. Draw your own conclusions.
>>141290140
Personal preference. I'm not as fond of the Japanese language as the rest of the anime community. I just don't enjoy japanese language as much as my own language, English or Russian. blasphemy, I know, but that's just how it is. It's the same thing with other stuff, some people enjoy beer, I enjoy red wine or some of my classmates eat lunch at McDonald's, while I eat pasta at my local Italian joint.
It's just a matter of personal preference.
>>141290311
Only person to love him for who he is, without putting him up to a standard or telling him to be x or y.
>>141290236
>Kowaru
Anyone else feel like he should have been in multiple episodes? It really lessens the impact of the whole "oh my god a pilot is an angel in disguise" thing when there's all of 15 minutes for us to see him. The "I love you" felt a little out of place too, for that matter.
>>141290459
And she's fused their pelvises together, anglerfish style, while she melts 3 billion people in anticipation of snowballing them into him.
>>141287171
Are you ready to read a book? Good.
For me, depth in story telling is more about the execution than the content, it's about the viewing experience and letting the audience figure things out for themselves. Eva is really straight-forward and simple in it's character development (world building is another topic).
I said before that Misato is the only character with some nuance and that's what makes her the only interesting character to me, but there are still some better, more complex female characters out there. Example, Faye Valentine. Yeah, I know, Cowboy Bebop is entry-level, but it's that way for a reason. It's a good story, not necessarily deep or super complex, but just a GOOD story.
There's alot going on in Faye's head and the show isn't upfront about it all. People call her a slut, but she's not a slut, not really. She's actually quiet the innocent girl, but you don't get to realize that until she gets her memory back and you realize that she has the mind of a fourteen yo girl in a fully mature body. She flaunts her sexuality around because she doesn't know any better and ends up in rapey scenarios in multiple episodes.
>>141290596
You'll never understand Eva fully if you don't watch it in the original Japanese.
The dub takes too many liberties and often mistranslates some bits.
>>141290610
I believe he was originally supposed to be but budget and time cuts mushed him into one.
>>141290655
cont.
Also, all this time across the show she's been looking for her past, thinking that getting her memories back would solve all her problems but it didn't. All it did was just reinforce the fact that she's a different person now. That little girl in the video is DEAD and gone forever. Up until then she had been using the guys and refused to bond with either of them. But once she got her memory back she was able to put it behind her and accept the fact that the Bebop is her new family.
And now that she's finally accepted some new people into her heart, Spike wants to throw his life away, fighting against impossible odds for a mediocre woman who's already dead and she has no idea why and she hates him for it. Fuck I love that scene when she's holding a gun to Spike, there's so much going on between those two, but the show doesn't force-feed it to you.
Both Faye's and Spike's flashbacks are much better handled than any of the flashbacks or surrealism in Eva. We're just given little bits of visual information, which is much more realistic to how human memory works, especially damaged memory which both Spike and Faye have.
>>141290652
What word is that referring to?
>>141290693
How should I know? I didn't make that image.
>>141290690
cont.
Another example, Nagato. Yuki Nagato is a far more complex character than Rei and I think of her as being the ultimate outcome of the "Rei-clone" archetype, all other examples are subpar. I went into Eva expecting to like Rei because I like Nagato, only to find her the most boring blank slate of a character ever. Nagato at least does cute things out of naivete. Rei is just nothing, I was so disappointed. Nagato also has a HUGE character arc that is very subtlety done up until the movie. It's most noticeable if you watch the episodes in chronological order, but the way she reacts to certain scenarios changes in subtle ways, I can provide examples. Rei is severely lacking in these little character-building moments.
And then it all comes out in Disappearance and you see this explosion of personality from all the characters that are acting different, Asakura shows compassion for another, Tsuruya is protective of Asahina instead of bullying her, Asahina actually stands up for herself, Haruhi proves that she's the same eccentric girl even without her supernatural powers, and Koizumi confesses his feelings for Haruhi. Everyone reveals their true nature and and is able to paint their true feelings onto the canvas that is the alternate universe, and Nagato especially.
>>141290236
>> Rei is molested on a daily basis, or worse raped by Gendo even if she dies!
Nice headcanon you got there.
you seem to have missed the point of a lot of these relationships. Did you have the show playing in the background and you only tuned in for the action scenes?
>>141290723
cont.
I say that people who argue over which Nagato is best don't know much about the character. To me, they are both two sides of the same coin. That shy bookworm you see in the alternate world, that personality is inside of the other Nagato all along, it slowly develops inside of her, she just doesn't know how to express it because she's an alien with no knowledge of how to act human, but a human-like personality is growing inside of her. In Disappearance Kyon finally has the chance to realize how much she was internally screaming in the time loop. And when she raises her hands to feel the falling snow, it's the most purposeless, irrational, most HUMAN thing she's ever done. That one simple visual displays an explosion of consciousness. Simple visuals that represent complex ideas, that's depth.
>>141290755
cont.
Another (because I'm enjoying this) example (and this one's a real kicker): Nadia. Nadia is a way better character than Asuka. Her personality grows and develops over time and her sweet side emerges more than once. Asuka does not. She's so bitchy, she so berating Shinji all the time, she has such a narrow field of behaviors that I recognized really early on that there was something deeply wrong with this character, and sure enough, I was right. The real problem here is that she doesn't have an arc. Sure, she reaches out to touch Shinji's face at the End of Evangelion, but then she just slips back into calling him an idiot. So I wouldn't call that an arc rather than just revealing what's under the surface. There's no change of character, her experiences have not shaped her into someone different than who we first met.
Nadia changes alot, when she finally realizes what an awful person she is she doesn't want to go on living(Asuka just tried to kill herself because of shame and other fucked up emotional issues, big deal), and then when she realizes that there are people around her who genuinely care for her, she changes drastically, she accepts a bit of humility and grace into her persona, and I'm sure she'd be a wonderful mother by the end of the story.
>>141290790
cont.
I also have big problems with the flashback in Asuka's backstory episode, and all the flashbacks in general, I think they were sloppily executed and are just about shoving information into the viewer's face. Granted there are way worse flashbacks in other shows, even shows that are some of my favs, I hate the jerky, flashy, quick-cuts editing style Anno has, the OP has some of the worst editing ever, it's almost seizure-educing and it's pretentious as hell. Compare to those flashbacks in Cowboy Bebop again, where it's all mostly just visual information, but you at least have time for your brain to perceive it without going back and ticking through the frames, and that's what lets you emotionally connect with the whole sequence, and therefore the character.
>>141290610
I would have agreed, but seeing as the more screen time he gets the worse a character he is I'd have to say no. it could have worked if he had showed right after Asuka stopped being viable as a pilot but that would have been just one extra episode, and owuld have taken away from Rei main moment, him showing up at 24 itself worked to give you a sense of how inmediate it all was. maybe it could have worked too had he been a background character at school with only minor interactons, but his look alone would have given him away. for the audience.
>>141290818
cont.
When I first watched Eva (about two or so years ago I guess) I didn't like it at all. At first it was boring and then it was just emotionally awkward and and unpleasant. I was confused and didn't understand alot of stuff, it took alot of lurking around here and asking well-phrased questions before I started to really grasp what the show was about and why people loved it.
Then sometime later I watched Nadia, and holy shit I fell in love with that show. I forgot about every other show I was watching at the time because I just wanted to watch one more episode of Nadia, I burned through the show in just a few days. Nadia has much more likable characters, great character arcs, and expert world building (the world building in Eva is pretty good too). Watching Nadia made me feel like I understood Eva better than what I did before. But it baffled me why the same guy would make such shallow characters in Eva AFTER he had made such great ones in Nadia. I think he was just burned out and said "fuck it" and was trying to make something cynical. End of Evangelion is the most nihilistic piece of art I've ever seen, it's the result of one artist just saying "FUCK EVERYTHING." You nerds say the ending is optimistic, I think it says that all human beings amounts to a compilation of violent and sexual impulses and there's no escaping it.
>>141290723
>Rei is just nothing, I was so disappointed.
Can't blame a pleb like you for missing all of Rei's character development.
Here you go: >>141290064
>>141290853
cont. (last one)
I don't hate Eva, I hate Eva-nostalgia fags who can't take one iota of criticism about their favorite show. The second time I watched Eva I was shocked about how much pandering there is in it. I guess I just didn't see it the first time because I'm used to ecchi or ecchi-like stuff in other shows, but after seriously attempting to understand the "depth" of the show and what fans love about it, after going through that internal process and forcing myself to get it right, and then coming back, ... It was shocking, shocking to me how much skin on the screen in every damn episode! It's shoving these girls' bodies into the audience's face, and then it just shows you a bunch of fucked up people treating each other horribly, and that's DEPTH to you guys?
Also, Anno doesn't do surrealism all that well. His idea of surrealism is trippy music with reused stills and a character monologing over it, or just copying 2001: A Space Odyssey. You want to see REAL surrealism? Look up "If... 1968 tiger scene" That's surrealism at it's finest.
Anno had some neat ideas, but I don't think he's the best storyteller or artist. Watanabe I think has proven himself multiple times to be a better storyteller and cinematographer.
>>141290693
'Evangelion'
>>141290852
Funny how you mention that, he was originally just gonna be another background kid in the case introduced in the early episodes and then revealed to be an angel later on as a twist.
I thought that would have been pretty cool, but I agree they'd have to unalbino him for it to work and catch everyone by surprise.
>>141290655
>>141290690
>>141290723
>>141290755
>>141290790
>>141290818
>>141290853
>>141290890
I'm on mobile so I don't have the image, but just pretend I posted the "You really expect me to read 'All That Shit' by you?" image, k?
>>141290937
*in the class
>>141290682
>I believe he was originally supposed to be but budget and time cuts mushed him into one.
Nope, deliberate choice. They spent more abandoning that draft.
>>141290682
I am familiar with the bits that the dub mistranslates. And those bits are also kinda mistranslated In the sun, since japanese is such a vague language. Unless it has a lot of TL notes on it, it's mistranslated anyway. I would have to learn japanese, to get it all right.
And ain't nobody got the time or the energy for dat.
>>141290955
Ain't nobody defenetly got no time for dat.
>>141291050
That's what I'm saying, it was devised before the final product.
>>141290955
tl:dr:
He likes Faye Better than Misato
Spike probably better than Kaji
Nagato better than Rei
Nadia better than Asuka
And doesn't like Anno referencing Kubrick
My counter argument is that Eva's characters are every bit as strong as those he brings up, but while they are pread out over a bunch of different shows, Eva puts characters of the caliber of Faye, Spike, Nagato, Nadia etc... all in a single show.
>>141290866
I mean, she develops a little bit, but then Anno just kills her off. It's like, "Hey you like this character? GO FUCK YOURSELF" Her clone is back to being a blank slate again, there's no arc for either of them.
>>141289392
Lose the term "interesting." It's whatever YOU make of it. Some anons here might consider the characters as interesting and a reason why the show's good in the first place, but that's not the point of this show.
It's more so what simply happens through out the series. It doesn't have the narrative aspects of other anime shows where there is "someone" constantly spoon-feeding you *every* bit of these characters. Shit happens in the show, you later reflect on the situation, rinse and repeat. Throughout the process you gain something out of it. If you self-insert yourself into some of the characters shoes in the show, or can relate to one or some of them, you'll probably ingest it in a better way.
Humans are messed up, just about everyone is, in his or her own way. We think we know someone else or his/her intentions, yet we sometimes don't really know ourselves. NGE covers this, talks about that Hedgehogs Dilemma stuff, and stupid shit humans waste soo much time thinking about.
It's a show that makes you think a bit, but really it makes you feel.
I dunno anon, if you're still stuck on that this show sucks cause the characters do, you're really looking at it in a bad perspective, in my honest opinion.
>>141287529
Right after Shinji comes back he makes a grave for misato with her neckless cross thing, you get 2 jump cuts and back to the same shot of the grave he made, but now the cross thing from her neckless is now oxidated, indicating time has passed
Shinji just spent days if not months alone with nothing but ray and mass production units corpses around in a sea of tang, he is going nuts, when Asuka shows up, it contradicts all he has experienced so far, so he tries to choke her to confirm if she is alive or not, note how she doesn't move for a while, proving even more to shinji she is just a corpse till she does indeed move and reaches out to him, he realizes what the fuck he did and stops
But just like many other theories, this is my interpretation of the scene and I can be wrong
I didn't like Eva that much.
It's very repetitive, and it's also very slow.
Even the character drama and psychological stuff seemed formulaic once I was well into the series.
>>141290955
>>141291133
More like.
tl;dr:
This guy didn't get evangelion. AT. FUCKING. ALL.
>>141291182
>you get 2 jump cuts and back to the same shot of the grave he made, but now the cross thing from her neckless is now oxidated, indicating time has passed
Nice catch, I never would have spotted that.
>he tries to choke her to confirm if she is alive or no
A+ logic right there Shinji. This is why your father never loved you.
>>141290655
>Are you ready to read a book? Good.
>>141291312
You mean you didn't like the 20 copy-pasted hospital bed frames and 20 escalator scenes?
>>141291350
>this is why your father never loved you.
Actually, his father never loved him, because he is a sheltered, autistic romantic, who would sacrifice the whole human race and his son, just to get his dear wife back.
>>141291133
>>141291317
that's deep counter arguement bruhs
>>141290723
Nagato is rei-clone because its character arechetype came to be because some one watched eva, thought Rei was cute but it could be cuter so he added a few extra characteristics even though Rei was never designed to be cute, but creepy and unsettling for the viewer at most
You are complaining that a burger is too plain for you when you were used to a cheese burger with bacon and onions
Its not the same thing, its the point of origin
>>141291350
He is like 14, was never the brightest in his class or in his job, went though hell and back and saw the person next to him die several times, by his hand even
I'm not saying chocking a bitch would be the correct course of action, but at that point I can safely assure that I wouldn't ask if she was alive or even poke her with a stick
Who is the best character and why is it Asuka?
>Rei
>literal non character
>good
>>141291170
>constantly spoon-feeding you *every* bit of these characters
That's exactly what it does, though. See episodes 25 and 26.
>>141291926
Lets not start the red vs blue waifu wars again, anonYui is the best and the only character whose plan seceded
Why does Rei always attract autists?
>>141291926
good evening cancer.
>>141291926
Pictured from left to right:
Big Bitch, Little Bitch
>>141281106
I think she survived that incident actually. The ring of light angel killed her.
>>141291985
succeed
fuck auto correct
>>141292023
Good night, toiletfag
>>141291980
Due to budget/time constraints for the final two episodes, they couldn't complete what they had planned originally. If they did, 25 and 26 would have been entirely different than what we got in the first place.
>>141292069
Not pictured: Bottom Bitch (pic related)
What are your hopes for 3.0+1.0?
>>141292312
Gendo + Fuyuki donkey adventures
>>141292257
>>141292207
>>141292011
>>141291971
>>141291926
Looks like the toilet poster is back, right on time also. why do you do this shit anon?
>>141292069
Pictured from left to right:
A man, A woman
Let the record show who came up to shit up the thread.
>>141292354
Because Rei looks like a toilet seat
I can't wait to rewatch the show when sephoric finishes the bd's.
>>141292361
hello toiletfucker
>>141292471
>tolietfucker
Please, I'm no Asukafag.
>>141292312
Anno kills off your beloved Asuka (and Mari) when they fight the MP EVAs, leading to Rei and Shinji living it up afterwards. This leads you to kys and that'll help prevent these eva threads from constantly being derailed by faggots like you
>tfw you realize toiletlover is actually a Kaworufag landwhale fujoshit from Tumblr who's jealous at Asuka for being prettier than her
Why do so many people feel that EoE is a depressing film? Okay, the shit that happens before Third Impact is depressing as shit, that I agree with, but isn't the overall message and ending pretty positive?
>>141292542
>>141292567
>>141292644
Bittersweet is more appropriate.
>>141292644
>isn't the overall message and ending pretty positive?
Uhh, isn't the ending the world being destroyed and every single human save one being forcefully turned into an amorphous blob because like 8 asshats thought it would be a good idea? That's pretty negative in my book anon.
>>141292644
the overall message is that HUMANITY IS FUCKED
>>141292644
I dunno anon, good question. For me, I just get that slight empty feeling after watching a good show conclude. it was a bittersweet moment for me when EoE was over.
Some people probably feels that way much more than I do, and seeing the whole cast slowly get picked off was pretty crazy.
>>141280427
Huh. I just realized how the similarities between those two aren't unlike the Humanoid Interfaces from Haruhi Suzumiya. Which may be the point, if it weren't for the huge amount of them and the downplaying their Rei/Kaworu's similarities.
>>141292633
I imagine tumblr landwhales of all people would like Asuka the most
>>141292678
>>141292725
>>141292734
>>141292771
Is it really depressing though? The movie basically says, that even though people are flawed we all still crave love and affection. It says that even people as thoroughly broken as Shinji can better themselves and start to love themselves.
And like Rei said, anyone can reject instrumentality and become a seperate entity again, so there is plenty of hope for humanity.
>>141292211
I think the version of events they used to sell the show was the one with 12 Angels attacking at once to explode America and ended on something like episode 24 with Shinji descending into Terminal Dogma pleading with Rei and Gendo. Everything they put in the trash sounds like the most amazing clownshoes thing and I wish we got anthology movies of all of them instead of Rebuild.
>>141292671
nah fampai, it's just that I like discussing things about this anime and people like you just keep spamming non-sense, not contributing at all.
>>141292850
Asukafags are cancer, more news at 11
>>141292806
I can agree with everything you said,
but the ending still says that everything we are still just amounts to a compilation of violent and sexual impulses. EoE is a nihilistic piece of art.
I don't don't understand how people can be watching Eva for the first time in 2016. Nor why they post here and get replies. This is supposed to be an anime board, yet apparently nobody watches anime, or they're underage b&.
>>141292806
No it's not really depressing. it's enlightening.
>>141292888
I don't exactly agree, but I can see your point. The thing I love about EoE is how much it leaves up to viewer interpertation
>>141292806
Did you ever see the Road? it's kind of like that, the world is fucked, but the dad ultimately chooses to trust that things for his son would be alright, he could very well get killed and eatn the moment after the movie was over, but choosing to have hope despite the circumstances was the important part. Same here, sure as long as they're alive there's hope, and people COULD choose to come back, but is it really all going to be fine? Who knows, it's about them making that leap of faith, but there are no guarantees that that leap would be rewarded, just hope that it will.
>>141292906
there's always new people being born anon.
>>141290955
I got you. And it's relevant as well!
>>141291510
Well wtf else can be expected by this?
It's ridiculous for a person to expect that everyone else will spend the next half hour typing out an essay in response to this especially when it has things like this >>141290890 for example.
A mistaken impression that a voiceover must make it surrealism and a bizarre idea that the work should then be judged, in some part, by some dickwaving contest with other works. That's not how movies work, not art, nor even surrealism.
Why should anyone bother address this seriously?
Also, it's either laughable or pathetic that he calls Eva pretentious and condemn it for having skin on the screen yet the example he uses...
Is "If..."'s tiger scene.
>>141292799
>I imagine toilet rights activists of all people would like the toilet's antithesis the most
What
>>141292906
nice toilet
>>141292987
Very good point, anon.
As wierd as it might sound, EoE is actually my "feel good" movie, whenever I feel depressed, I watch it again and it never fails to cheer me up.
>>141279147
NGE was important and influential because nobody had ever seen anything like it before, not because it was any kind of "good."
>>141293071
>liking Asuka
Back to tumblr, landwhale.
>>141293108
>landwhales have better taste than toiletfags
kek
>>141293097
It's mine too, mostly because of how beautiful the later part is, but in concrete terms it ends in a pretty dark place just with a little hope to hang on to, not a promise.
>>141293184
Asuka is the toilet. He's also a landwhale and a transvestite. No wonder tumblr likes him.
They feel incompetent in comparison to Rei, a literal goddess.
>>141293270
>tumblr has better taste than you
Nice
Also Rei is the toilet, see>>141293071
>>141293345
I recall Asuka being the one shit on by niggers in the show, thus he is the toilet.
>>141292906
Because we all aren't the same, anon. I'm sure you're not capable of watching or consuming EVERY bit of media as soon as they are made available.
Be considerate. I wouldn't be an ass to someone if they stumbled upon something that's dated. I know that it happens to me and I hope people would act the same way, ya know?
>>141293379
>making stuff up
>being this desperate
roasted
>>141291477
Gendo didn't love him because he took away Yui's affection. Almost everything Gendo does throughout the series is for the purpose of reuniting with her.
>>141287529
>pic
dumb evaposter
>>141292725
Well I think one of the primary takeaways of EoE (especially the live-action segment) is that escapism can be tempting, but ultimately, reality is the better option. There's a much greater risk of getting hurt and hated in the real world, but the possibility of genuine connection and love with others is worth that risk. Where's the excitement and purpose in a world where everyone is one with everyone else? Can there ever be a true sense of self or individual identity?
I think Anno also used the sequence as a direct message to the audience, a kind of Brechtian jolt to the viewer that reminds them that yes, they are watching a movie, and yes, at the end of the day, it's still fiction. You can enjoy it and appreciate it, but don't get lost in it. Don't flee to an imaginary “perfect” world because of the flaws in your own. If you confine yourself to fiction and fantasy, you make it harder to be hurt, but you also make it harder to enjoy the tangible presence of others, and all that entails.
>>141294431
>Where's the excitement and purpose in a world where everyone is one with everyone else?
I'll agree with you on this one. It seems like a decent amount of people consider EoE's ending to be happy and optimistic, but I've always thought that everyone merging into a single being would be terrible. Most of them probably didn't want it, but too bad for them because the people in power wanted it.
At the end of the movie, humanity is essentially extinct.Unless Shinji and Asuka really get to work and aren't carriers of any kind of genetic disorders
>>141292843
I wish we got anything other than the Rebuild, t b h
It's such a condensed re-telling of the story and full of fanservice, that it's borderline nauseating.
This scene is seriously one of the only things I like about the rebuilds:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=ITvbC_dnPV0
>>141294735
Yui says anyone can come back
>>141294794
Yeah, at that point I'd just stay in the primordial soup. Fuck the post-third impact world.
Now if it were possible to come back whenever, I'd wait a few hundred years where the world it a bit more habitable.
>>141294794
The planet is still pretty fucked though. Unless there's a way around that that I missed.
>>141294904
Time. But still, fuck that. If you're tang'd up, you don't have all the issues to deal with as a human. You'd be immortal with no need to eat, sleep, work, etc.
Then if you were to come back, where's the clean water at? food?
>>141294903
>I'd wait a few hundred years where the world it a bit more habitable.
I don't think the world is going to get more habitable after that. After all, the instrumentality absorbed all Lilith-based life (everything), so its not like any life is going to make the planet any more habitable. The only thing happening to that planet is geological phenomena and meteorite impacts, neither of which are particularly conducive to creating a human-habitable world.
Maybe someone could figure out how to reactivate one of the 2 seeds of life on the planet, assuming they're at all functional after the third impact.
>>141294903
But that's the point, you don't get to have the world you want, but as it ends up. which is fucked. the choice it to accept it as it is or escape it.
>>141295086
Damn, yeah that's a pretty fucked up situation I guess.
>>141295080
Well, there's more than enough tomato soup to go around, at least.
>>141284541
His mother. All the named kids let slip in one way or another that their mothers aren't around.
I also started watching hoping it would be a more "mature" anime since everyone talks about how extreme and unsettling it is.
I'm at episode 13 and I'm quite bored.
>shinji is a giant pussy
>asuka is obnoxious
>rey is a robot
>ikari is an asshole
>everything is spelled out
>things change with no explanation
>angels pop up every episode
if there wasn't so much filler it might be more bearable, but when the plot line of episodes often has almost no consequence at all it's hard to stay interested.
>>141296620
Try harder next time
>>141296620
>Episode 13
Yeah, you're in the mid-series slump right now. The middle arc is definitely the least interesting, but once you get to 17/18, the Angel-of-the-week stuff stops for the most part, and the quality explodes. It's easily one the most emotionally draining television arc I've seen.
>>141296730
Yeah I'm gonna keep watching, I just don't get why some plot lines just got temporarily abandoned.
At the beginning it seems like there's some sort of telepathic connection between the EVA and Shinji, but then it just gets dropped and it seems as if they're just kids in giant robot suits.
And the whole "angel attacks -> EVAs save the day" episodes have gotten really boring.
>>141296620
You are watching it subbed, I trust. The dub has problems with character interpretations.
>>141296934
I'm watching it dubbed actually. I had watched the first episode subbed to see the difference and it seemed close enough. The subs were also a bit too fast for me.
How bad is it?
>>141296817
oh believe me, that part is gonna be front-and-center very soon.
>>141296934
I think Shinji's voice sounds waaaay too old in the dub, too.
This is almost completely unrelated to anything here, but I found this image while looking through my folders and it reminded me of the angels' explosions.
>>141296817
>I just don't get why some plot lines just got temporarily abandoned.Because a lot of it was written by committee as they went with elements even being retconned midway if not altogether dropped.
>>141296620
>>everything is spelled out
>>things change with no explanation
how do you reconcile these two? Anyway, like others said you're on the mid arc slump. It pays off but while you're in the middle of it it might feel a bit pointless.
there is actually one very specific thing that elevates NGE (the original tv series specifically) above others
and that is the directing style
people focus way too much on the writing and the characters of this series they miss its true value
because it really is masterfully directed and countless shows up to this point have tried to mimic its style in so many ways including the rebuild movies and they've all failed
Anno himself can't recreate it because thats just how much of a perfect storm its creation was
>>141297988
>everything is spelled out
I meant that in the sense that if Shinji is a loner because he's afraid of getting hurt someone will literally say "Shinji doesn't reach out to people because he's afraid of getting hurt".
>things change with no explanation
I was mostly referring to the whole EVA-Pilot connection not being acknowledged for so many episodes. I guess they just ignored it to make filler. After the recap in episode 14 it seems like the show is back to making "real" episodes.
>>141298318
>I meant that in the sense that if Shinji is a loner because he's afraid of getting hurt someone will literally say "Shinji doesn't reach out to people because he's afraid of getting hurt".
The reason they do that is because it's basically the center of the entire story. There's other things going on that aren't described in this way.
>>141298456
I'm just not too fond of the approach. I'd rather the director let me figure things out on my own than inserting awkward lines of dialogue that tell me what's going on (it seems to be the standard in anime though)
>>141298318
>>141298536
Not just in Anime,The characters in Good Will Hunting also talk like that and that screenplay got an Oscar. It's not inherently wrong, but it's very easy to get it wrong and be amateurish, so it's usually better to avoid it.
Misato and Ritsuko discuss him like that because his mental state is relevant to his piloting.
>>141298621
I couldn't really think of other specific examples, but it happens a bit too much for my taste and to me it seems a bit heavy-handed.
>>141284571
I liked EOE, it didnt made me super depressed because I already suffer from depression. It made me realize that there are more people out there like me, which are creative and suffer from it.
I really liked it Anon, and the last scene :love is destructive was beautiful.
How the hedgehog dilema was ended, Asuka not giving a fuck about being hurt and reaching for the warmth whilst giving kindness.
Shinji breaking down as consequence of finally obtaining that which he had so longed for.
And also DAT KIMOCHIWARUI!
I'm still on episode 17 butis Rey some sort of angel-fuckery-soul-clone of Shinji's mom?
>>141285819
Can I suggest Meguka as "as good as Eva" ?
>>141298536
I promise you that Shinji is fucked up in more ways than the other characters observe and comment on.
>>141298730
No, because Meguka's characters are hot garbage compared to Eva's.
>>141298309
What made the original so good was how little they relied on dialogue in some of the more powerful scenes. Anno knew when to put in a deliberate pause, and the subtext spoke volumes. Rebuild basically tossed all of that subtly in the trash; sure, it looked all polished, but they practically beat you over the head with every explanation. The characters couldn't shut up for 3 seconds to let their body language speak for itself.
>>141298644
I agree it does happen a lot in anime, and it's often heavy-handed, but I think it works in Eva because like I said their mental state has an effect on their status as pilots and ultimately their mental blockades is what's at the core of the story and not so much the angels. Kind of like WWH, it's not so much the story about what the genius protagonist is going to do with his life, since he pretty much can do anything he sets out to do, the conflict is his mental blockades so the characters end up talking like that even if it's not very natural:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=QnZ0Y4rvz6E
>>141298722
pretty much
>>141298730
I think it's pretty great, but I still put Eva above it.
>>141295080
Lilith based lifeforms will eventually begin to recunstruct themselves.
After instrumentality you could see ricefields and such.
So yeah the kids will live in an apocalyptic wasteland but they will be able to survive, thrive and reproduce until more come out of the tangworld.
>>141298670
Asuka looks really ugly
>>141298878
I was trying to say that Meguka and Eva are both equally "good" at allowing interpetations that can be way more intricate and spectaculars that those originally intended by their authors and both shows have that "non-traditional messiah" stuff
>>141298878
>pretty much
dayyyyyyyyum
