Just finished fate zero and fate stay night and I had a question
If Gilgamesh can easily wreck berserker, and shirou can kill Gilgamesh why can't archer who is a BETTER version of shirou beat berserker?
From what I got archer is faster and stronger and basically unlimited blade works is a better version of gate of Babylon
>>137533899
Are you seriously asking this question?
>still not scanned
>>137533899
rock, paper, scissors, mate.
>>137533899
Enkidu
they explained it in the show retard
gilgemesh is weak against shirou
Gilgamesh >>>> Berserker > Archer >>> Shirou > Archer at 10% power
>UBW stronger than Gate of Babylon
No. Shirou only won because Gilgamesh hesitated to use Ea.
>>137533899
>basically unlimited blade works is a better version of gate of Babylon
No, read the LN
>>137533899
Archer can beat berserker in a fight, just not as easily twelve times straight.
UBW is technically a counter to GoB.
Can this thread be dead, or are we just going to tell this faggot OP to read the VN?
>>137534008
*VN
>>137534007
But Gilgamesh didn't use ea vs berserke
>>137533899
>smug Archer ordering a intellectually gifted individual to read the visual source material
>>137534007
>Shirou > Archer at 10% power
Wrong, Archer let him win in their fight, and he wasn't event fighting him on a physical level on the first place. He could have killed him at the very begining if he wanted to.
>>137534033
Is there a book version of this? I heard it's a game but if rather read something like a light novel
>>137534130
Is there a light novel of this?
>>137533899
He can. His mana was just depleted going into the fight after using most of his energy to heal himself. Had his mana fully recovered, he would have been able to beat Berserker.
>>137534134
It's a Visual Novel.
>>137534097
He doesn't need to. Enkidu is a counter to Berserker's divinity.
>>137534134
The game is a book with pictures and seafood quality sex scenes.
>>137534097
Are you retarded?
>>137534134
Do you know what a VN is? Also Gates of Babylon has higher quality swords than UBW.
>>137534097
He used other OP shit like the Chains of God against Berserker that would have had no effect on Shirou.
Gilgamesh's Gate of Babylon means he has a weapon to counter to pretty anyone. That's why he is so confident. Shirou would have gotten wrecked by Ea but Goldie got overconfident and thought he could beat him at his own game. When he realized his mistake it was too late.
>>137534215
It's it's higher quality why did he lose
>>137534225
Why wouldn't it work on shirou
In fate zero the chainy things literally stopped rider like 1cm from his face and held him and he's like Alexander or something and not a god
>>137534355
Alexander is said to be a son of Zeus.
It's bullshit but it's what was said about the guy.
>>137534319
Because when 2 missiles crash into each other it doesn't matter which is the better one.
>>137534395
Then what is the point of Weapon Ranks.
>>137534412
Only matters when in reference to injuring Heracles
nice bait thread.
fate is dead.
>>137534007
Let's stop for a minute. Ea is not gate of Babylon. It is a noble phantasm kept inside vault that gate of Babylon connects to. Gate of Babylon as we commonly think about it is pulling noble phantasms from said vault. Gate of Babylon loses to UBW because UBW is faster at producing NPs. Gils problem is that didn't pull out ea until too late. He only does this once he realizes gate of Babylon is being over powered. If Gil wasn't full of hubris he would just always start with ea. However, He wouldn't be Gil if he had a working brain.
>>137534441
>>137534395
But when saber and Gilgamesh fought in fate stay night the first time he brought out like a higher ranked origin sword to shit all over her
>>137534391
Who said that? He was the son of Philip II. Although his mother was a witch, that's actually true.
>>137534412
For when they're used against something else, in this analogy Heracles as a tank, Archer's "missiles" can't penetrate the armorhe can still kill Heracles, just not with UBW sword rainwhile GIl's can
>>137534215
Higher quality doesn't mean much when they just end up colliding into each other. Gilgamesh's advantage was that he had an endless supply while Shirou's usage drained his mana.
>>137534319
Shirou won because he has skilled at his usage of the duality swords he and Archer had. Gilgamesh relied on pure quantity and the only sword he could use to its full power was Ea
>>137534355
iirc the Chains of God are stronger the more godly the person it is holding is. Given the fact that Shirou can project swords to attack in his vicinity, and the fact he has pretty good battle instincts it would hard for him to be held for any long period of time.
>>137534457
Fate is anything but dead, its one of the hottest properties of the decade and trendy as all fuck still
>>137534493
I don't know what you're arguing anymore.
>>137534480
So why can't archer beat berserker
>>137534499
Alexander did of course
>>137534493
delete this
>>137534563
But that wasn't an actual claim of his birthright. He was just comparing himself to Zeus.
>>137534560
Unlimited blade works can't get past god hand, he needs to overcharge each sword to even be able to hurt heracles, against an enemy many times fast and stronger than him. I can't say why he didn't just use nine lives.
>>137534624
Still grants him divinity as part of his legend
>>137534560
Because he run out of mana for broken phantasms
Gil is shit and a ginger kid wrecked him
>>137534655
I won't deny it, but it's still stupid.
>>137534560
Why didn't Archer just snipe Illya?
Another question what part of saber is the shield thing
Apparently the scabbard is healing only?
Does it also have defensive powers?
Would it work if u used it to ram someone
>>137534716
What can I say, greeks are dumb
>>137534789
It wasn't Alexander's fault he was just bragging. It's the fault of whoever decided to take it literally.
Also does shirou not end up with rin
They seemed pretty close but archer never had any sort of close emotional attachment like a lover to her but it seemed like she and shirou did like each other so maybe they broke up?
From what I get he went on to become some sort of mercenary and maybe he left her during it?whats going on with adult rin?
>>137534830
Alexander should have bragged that he was the son of the god of paying denbts
>>137534560
He can. The problem is mana. Archer killed beserker 6 times in continuous fighting. the problem is God hand provides 11 extra lives. If archer was able to not have to do all the fighting at once. Sure he could defeat beserker. However, killing him 11 times is just far to draining.
>>137534726
>killing his imouto
yeah, next you'll say why didn't he kill taiga.
>>137534701
Delete this, mongrel
>>137534837
Read the fucking vn
>>137534773
That's Avalon and is the most broken thing in the Fate-verse.
>Apparently the scabbard is healing only?
>Does it also have defensive powers?
It's also an "absolute defense" and lives up to it's name. Even Gods would have a hard time attacking someone who has Avalon and is aware of it.
>Would it work if u used it to ram someone
Probably about as effective as a tree branch.
>>137534853
Shirou/Saber is canon ending
>>137533899
Need more edge.Shirou is so BADASS
>>137533899
>>137533985
>>137534215
>>137534716
Oh shit, meant to post thisBADASSimage.
>>137534971
That's not that works.
That's not how any of this works
Does Ilya grow up to be as hot as her mom or does she stuck at murder loli stage
>>137535143
>Illya
>growing up
I don't get why they just didn't bring in more mages or vampires or something as hired help
Apparently masters are just as dangerous as servants aka shirou and kotomine or the monk temple man that knows karate
Shoulda brought some backup and just wrecked everyone's shit
>>137535104
If Archer is Shirou from the future, how Archer not realize he would lose to himself?
If he won, he wouldn't exist anymore.
>>137535104
C A N O N
A
N
O
N
>>137535349
Alternate timelines, dude. Archer is Shirou from a different universe. Even in other routes Shirou probably wouldn't become Archer.
>>137535349
How can shirou lose to archer if archer killers shirou then archer would not have existed and wouldn't be able to kill shirou the only possible realty was archer dying shirou can't
>>137535521
Are you OKAY?
>>137533899
>unlimited blade works is a better version of gate of Babylon
It's not tho, all the weapons from reality marble are 1 level lower, but he can make them faster than Gil can pull them out
>>137535584
He can copy the other guy's skill though which is OP as fuck.
>>137535604
um, no?
They only look the same, but they're fundamentally different... Gilgamesh takes the original weapons from armoury in his castle, Archer creates them with his mind
How does it looks, guys? Obviously, is not finished yet, but I want to know if there's a part that you think doesn't fit with the page/looks off.
>>137535783
Looks nice, I remember you were worried about Sasaki's hair, but it looks good
>>137534185
How much of that has been actually confirmed? I've heard quite plenty of theories of what exactly occured and I don't really recall that being explained in the route self.
>>137535709
Shirous projections make weapons and the weapon's history as well.
For example, if Shirou were to project Kanshou and Bakuya(Archers 2 swords) he would also be projecting Archers battle skills with the swords as well that's kind of why he can keep up in a fight.
>>137534185
>>137535841
An injured Archer was able to kill Berserk about 5 times right? I imagine at full power he would get rather close to full stock.
>>137535709
Gil pulls out the sword, Shirou basically recreates it from scratch and while inferior he'll still have the wielder's skill.
>>137535862
I'm sure that's not right. He had archers skills only in Heaven's Feel, which he got from his hand.
Otherwise he only gets exp from battles and training with Saber/Rin.
In UBW when they fight, Archer trashes him but decides to let him win in the end.
>>137535900
Well, how much power he had to begin with? We also really don't have much of a clue what even happened during the fight, only that Berserker got killed a few times and that Archer died during that time.
Also berserker wasn't boosted while fighting Archer, not sure how much it influenced the fight, but it's still something to acknowledge.
>>137535938
He literally says when they fight that neither of them can use them as well as the owner.
>>137536052
>Projection (Trace Version) is the personal variation of Gradation Air that Shirou Emiya and Archer use, referred as Tracing due to the unique aria, "Trace On", that is used for its activation. Tracing greatly differs from normal Projection in the fact that not only does it reproduce the shape and substance of an object, but also its entire history as well.
>>137535824
Yeah, the ponytail has me worried, I'm still a bit wary of doing lines. Redrawing Caster's frontal robes is going to be the hardest part, since I don't have any pattern to base it off.
>>137536088
>Boosted
What do you mean?
Either way Archer took half of his lives and left Berserker wounded while he himself was injured, that's a pretty big feat.
why Shirou in fate kill berserker when archer couldn't ?
>>137536254
Because he could pull out Saber's sword
just kidding, it's becauseShirou is stronger than Archer
>>137536254
Miracles
>>137536254
Did Berserker regen all his life's by the time that fight happened?
Either way, Excalibur is op and Archer can't trace it, Shirou could but only with Saber at that time.
>>137536107
The problem is that you're mixing two completely different things up. Yes Tracing copies the history of the weapons and how they were forged and stuff; but that only applies to the weapons.
The other thing you're referring two is the fact that Shirou is getting stronger and learning how to fight much faster than would be humanly possible by subconsciously leeching Archers own battle experience when he gets close to him due to the connection they share.
>>137536373
>Did Berserker regen all his life's by the time that fight happened?
No, Shirou/Saber kill Herk 6 or 7 times.
And it was Caliburn, which is an A-ranked NP when used by Arturia.
>>137536254
Caliburn only worked with Saber.
Archer tracing it would be of no use. It'd be B->C rank garbage, couldn't even harm Heracles.
>>137533899
Actually, if Gilgamesh can easily wreck berserker, and shirou can kill Gilgamesh, can Archer, who is a BETTER version of shirou, easily beat Gilgamesh?
>>137533954
But it is.
>>137536505Probably
Gil might get to using Ea quicker against Archer.
But Archer is more GAR and can keep the pressure on Gil for longer and in different ways.Probably
>>137536254
because Archer is Rin's servant and Rin is actually (based on what magic they accomplish) a lot worse magician than Shiro
>>137536542
>sample ripped from the artist's pixiv
>>137536373
When you say Archer can't trace Excalibur you mean he doesn't have the time to trace it right ?
>>137536505
Gil would treat Archer as a more serious threat than Shirou. He'd at least use his armor.
While Archer will press him to the wall faster, Gil will also draw Ea faster. So it depends on if Archer can kill him in that time frame.
Archer at least bluffs that he can.
>>137536409
>He is capable of reproducing any sword that he has seen, though Noble Phantasms are always one rank below their original strength and armor costs three times the amount of magical energy, and he is capable of employing its entire history, allowing him to wield any weapon with the same proficiency of its original owner.
Go back and reread Fate and UBW, he was getting dragged around by his projections at first because of the skills he traced, but by training he was employing his own skill and the weapon skill, both.
>>137533954
>Sakura still has no mouth
>>137536373
>>137536610
Archer can trace Excalibur, it'll just kill him and be a very shitty copy.
>>137534480
Isn't UBW only capable producing weapons such as swords? In that case, why would Ea be Gilgamesh's only option when he could simply use shields, spaceship, nukes, or divine weapons? (assuming)
>>137536610
>>137536694
As a Divine Construct, it is impossible to reproduce with Projection.
UBW only contains weapons with similar abilities, but he cannot trace excalibur.
>>137534134
Archer killed Berserker 6 times, possibly without UBW, before Berserker killed him once in the VN.
>>137536610
>>137536694
>>137536761
He can only do it in moon cell.
>>137534654
Shirou could pull that because it was a skinless Berserker. I think only his skin has the property of nullyfying attacks, not what's under it (that's also why Caliburn wrecked him)
>>137536220
Not sure I remember that correctly, but basically Berserker wasn't utilizing his full strength during the battle, I don't recall the details, but it had to do something with Ilya having to active something in order for him to be at full power.
And killing Berserker 6 times was quite impressive, but how impressive depends upon the circumstances, which seeem to be unknown.
>>137536840
>The original version of Fate/stay night had it so that she had not utilized the raised parameters of Mad Enhancement at all, but it was changed within Realta Nua having him truly become wild in his fighting
Damn Nasu really can't write.
>>137536694
> Archer can't trace divine construct
> Traces the fuck out of Gilgamesh's armory
Actually the real reason is because Saber is best girl and Archer can't steal her market.
>>137535026
>>137535053
What are those from ? The fate kaleid manga ?
>>137537021
Yes.
>>137536934
There are some decent reasons that suggest Nasu isn't that great of a writer. I don't think that nitpick is one of them.
>>137536934
Nasu is a hack, Takeuchi a one trick pony.
I just hate changes to source materials so much, though he's not on the level of George Lucas yet.
>>137533899
Lurk more newfag.
Archer killed Hercules several times with ONLY SWORDSMANSHIP.
That is why Hercules said ARCHER GAVE HIM A SWORD BONER SO MUCH THAT HE REGRETS BEING SUMMONED AS THE BERSERKER CLASS BECAUSE HE WASN'T ABLE TO RESPOND TO ARCHER'S BEAUTIFUL SWORDSMANSHIP WITH HIS OWN GREEK SWORDSMANSHIP SINCE IT WAS SEALED.
Archer didn't want to defeat Hercules in his usual way.
ARCHER WANTED TO TEST HOW FAR HE COULD GO WITH ONLY HIS SWORDSMANSHIP AGAINST HERCULES.
THIS WASN'T ABOUT WINNING OR LOSING. ARCHER JUST WANTED TO HAVE FUN FOR A LITTLE BIT.
>>137537052
>Forgetting to write details that would otherwise make character choices look out of character or retarded
>A nitpick
Is not that he can't trace divine construct, he can't trace shit made of true magic nor materials that doesn't exist (or atleast not anymore) in our reality.
>>137537129
CAPSLOCK is CRUISE CONTROL for COOL.
>>137537046
I'm only familiar with the FSN vn and F/Z so I don't know much about kaleid. Isn't it centered around Ilya ? Why can we see Archer Shirou and such ?
Why can't scissors beat rock if it can be paper?
>>137537172
Exactly
>
>>137534716
FGO: Zeus' Thunder. He's Zeus' son.
>>137537183
The Scissor is not a high enough rank and can't penetrate the rock's defense.
>>137537158
True magic and materials no longer existing are exactly what divine constructs are, therefore they cannot be traced by any human, much less Archer unless he's on moon cell.
>>137537139
I fail to see how it's so contradictory to a characterization that it triggers you.
>>137537232
Then how does it beat paper which is strong enough to beat rock?
>>137537172
They are in a parallel world right now where Shirou became an autistic sword and is coping with the deeper implications of being a hero of justice.
>>137537216
Nasu's an idiot who doesn't understand history what else is new. It's kind of unfortunate because Alexander is still one of the most interesting people in history. He wore some of Achilles armor (I forget what it was), His mother was a witch and his father was the greatest warrior until his son.
Allright, I have read that first route and blade work. And I have one single question.
Why this ginger faggot become an archer and not fucking saber?
>>137537350
This retard. I might give it a try. Do we see best girlSakuratoo ?
>>137537390
Read the VN, again.
>>137537372
*Armor that was said to have been worn by Achilles
How does one ESL manage to troll 40 people with easily googlable questions?
>>137537390
Because he's an archer, duh
>>137537393
She's even more full of heart than HF.
>>137537390
The same reason Gilgamesh is. Because of their noble phantasms.
>>137537261
Illya is not stupid, she's probably on par with Rin in intelligence when it comes to fighting and strategy.
That said, it would make no sense for Illya to not have utilized Mad Enhancement against another servant.
>>137537475
Picked up. Thank you anon
>>137537460
Because most of this thread is filled with newfag secondaries and they don't play the VN.
>>137537393
Yes.
>>137537537
The manga is all about Illya and friends until part 3 "3rei" which is when the GARman shows up.
>>137537578
>>137537609
Are the first two parts lolishit or is it actually interesting ?
>>137537507
Illya is also playful and confident. Who's to say she didn't think some nobody Archer was worth the trouble. The original or the retcon don't seem so outlandishly out of character either way.
>>137537687
50/50
It sets up a decent plot
>>137537713
All right. That'll do
>>137533899
Because the archer class is literally jobbing incarnated
>>137538200
Archer class has the coolest guys though
>>137538729
>That David
Why is he so based?
>>137538729
>Robin Hood and Jack the Ripper
I never knew I was so fond of this Duo.
