We all know that's a troll by now, but the real quote
>You see, whether you can draw like this or not, being able to think up this kind of design, it depends on whether or not you can say to yourself, ‘Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life. If you don’t spend time watching real people, you can’t do this, because you’ve never seen it. Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves. Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans. And that’s why the industry is full of otaku!
Do you agree or disagree with his opinion? Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
Has anime become too self-referential and disconnected from the 'real world'?
Is this why we haven't had any new Miyazakis or Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells?
Discuss.
Anime was a mistake.
Is this why harem sucks so much?
>>135833579
Different artists have different experiences and styles. Not everyone has to make realistic characters.
I disagree.
If I wanted real girls Id go outside. Anime lets me see things that arent real and its why I like it.
>>135833630
Probably. It's a cycle.
>Creator makes characters based off real people, but with certain traits emphasized.
>Fan of that series creates characters based off them, but with certain traits emphasized.
>Repeat.
>Repeat.
>You are now so far removed from how real people act that you might as well just say they're aliens.
I think he's right but I don't think that's a problem.
If "anime writing" was the only writing that existed in the world when it came to fiction then it would matter.
But its not, anime is niche so it being different is actually a positive thing.
>>135833719
They're more like overexaggerated caricatures of human beings. Except people take them seriously (and fap to them).
>>135833668
Do real girls outside look like 2D too?
>>135833878
Its unknown, no one who goes outside has come back.
anime is now about selling, they sell the appealing characters they designed and leave a shallow story to put them in
>>135833579
>Is this why we haven't had any new Miyazakis or Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells?
We had plenty of those and then some better.
Face it, you're just a superficial idiot who's only bothered by how some drawings look compared to others, and nothing else. Like all normalfags, you get triggered by absolute beauty, especially of the female form, and proceed to shit on anything featuring them no matter how good they actually are.
Fuck you, and sage.
The best way to make any characters feel more real is to make them go though everyday life in the story.
But murrican normalfags hate SOL especially.
So basically the argument doesn't hold for peoples mad on anime. Especially when they when more "Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells"
Ridiculous.
>>135833579
If I wanted to watch real people, I'd go outside more often. I watch anime PRECISELY because it's not like real people.
This guy is mad because anime is not cartoon soap operas?
Well go fuck yourself then m8.
Miyazaki should have made live action movies, he would have enjoyed it more.
Why do people praise Miyazaki? He's a hack who's never made anything good.
He's right, but at the same time who cares?
Real people are terrible.
>>135834734
This is my answer now.
>hurr if I wanted real people I'd go outside
Every time
First, real people don't look like 2D.
Secondly, why the fuck do you assume if he said "Oh, yeah, girls like this exist in real life" he implies that they should act exactly like the average person you see in every day life? It's not impossible to just make a believable characters with much less bad traits than the average person, and chances that you'd meet such a person irl "if you'd just go outside" are very low.
Look at Saekano for example, it has a character that doesn't fit any archetype and people with taste are all over her, she's basically the reason the LN is so popular. And guess what, people like her because she acts natural and more "real-life like" unlike the rest of the cast.
Kumiko in Hibike and Aoi in Shirobako also fit that example, so I don't understand why'd you completely disagree with his opinion.
>>135833579
>>135835492
>Saekano for example, it has a character that doesn't fit any archetype
Which one? Because all I saw were shitty archetypes in that anime
>>135835492
What the fuck are you on? Learn English holy shit.
>>135834296
>The best way to make any characters feel more real is to make them go though everyday life in the story
>best character development is SOL
What a load of bullshit. Most SOLs are the worst kind of garbage regarding realistic characters. The quantity of shit anime taking place in a high school is already beyond madness, but people like you will eat it up no matter what instead of wanting well done settings with characters older than 15 years old
>>135835936
Name a few characters that fit the Megumi archetype.
>>135835977
What's there not to understand? Quote it so I could make it clear for you.
>>135834217
Please give me some cow boy bebops, senpai. I really want to enjoy myself
>>135836062
Wait.
People fucking like megumi? She has literally no character at all. Are you fucking kidding me?
>>135836062
I cant tell if you are for or against miyazaki´s opinion, I cant decipher what your point is or if you even have one.
And Megumi is a Rei clone.
Oh, it's this thread again
Of course he's right.
Full disclosure: I actually sort of like people.
>>135836109
Have you never lurked Saekano threads?
>>135836170
I''m against the opinion that all girs in the anime shouldn't resemble real life behavior at all.
>And Megumi is a Rei clone.
Shit bait
>>135836241
>Have you never lurked Saekano threads?
Never. Is she popular in Japan too?
And that anon is right, she is pretty much a Rei clone. She is stoic, quiet, very boring. She shouldnt exist really, she brings nothing to the table.
>>135836313
Yes
>She is stoic, quiet, very boring.
I don't see it, she just doesn't express her emotions in your typical, stereotypical overreacted way. Did you miss all her witty remarks?
>She shouldnt exist really, she brings nothing to the table.
She's the MC motivation and she helps a lot with the game, also helped the MC to get over his depression. She's basically a fembro to him.
>>135836593
>witty remarks?
You mean unfunny and annoying remarks. I didnt hate her but she felt like a tertiary character at best, I still think she shouldnt exist and only makes the story worse overall. Oh Im sure she will get some development but I dont even care because she is fucking boring.
Thanks for the info though Ill stay away from the /a/ threads forever.
>>135834313
All art comes from observing reality. Anime is not art, thus have no intrinsic value.
>>135833579
>Do you agree or disagree with his opinion?
Agree in terms of animation skills.
>Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
For me this question is kinda off to the core idea on what Miyazaki wants to point out. The main idea was that most animator nowadays don't observe real movement, interaction, reaction, etc. of humans, animals, objects, etc.
>>135836685
Without her the story would be a typical generic LN drama. Not saying Saekano is a masterpiece, but it's still better than most of the LNs we get.
Who's you favorite chracter then?
>>135836843
show me data that there's been a percentage ratio increase
>>135836862
character*
>>135836862
But it is a typical generic LN drama, she adds nothing to the story thats my point, again she doesnt bother me because most of the time I forget she even exists or that she is in the room.
I like the other girls because even though they are stereotypes they feel well made and not too over the top.
And If you must know my favorite girl is Michiru.
>>135836801
Something does not have to be art to be enjoyable. Hardly any tv shows could be considered art.
>>135836983
How does she add nothing to the story if she's the whole reason why the MC decided to make a game and she's his motivation throughout the whole thing?
I don't want to start an argument that every Saekano thread has, but saying Megumi is a nonexistent chracter is plain stupid
>>135837258
Sure she is but any of the other girls could have inspire him just as much, and that has nothing to do with her lack of personality anyways.
She could be the source of inspiration AND be an actual character, wouldnt that be great.
>>135837156
Only a low intelligence mind would enjoy a mass produced garbage. Art is inherintly enjoyable to the superior intelligence.
>>135835552
Kek. This really sums up /a/
>>135837346
Did you even watch the show?
The other girls couldn't, precisely because he thought Megumi lacked a generic archetypical personality he decided to make a game.
>>135837504
We are going in circles so lets just stop.
I don't the see problem, I hate people too and I have to work with them every day, anime is my only solace.
>>135837560
Do you hate /a/nons too?
>>135837547
ok, but I mean, it's even in the synopsis
>Tomoya Aki is an uber otaku who works part-time to earn money to buy merchandise, but one day while delivering papers he meets a beautiful girl in an event that will change his life forever. A month later, he finds out that the girl is actually his classmate, Megumi Kato, and she's going to be the main heroine of the game he's making. The only problem? She's utterly forgettable.
>>135833579
The only thing I agree with is that I should spend more time observing young girls to be honest.
>>135833579
he's right though in what he says, though I don't see any problem of anime being a medium for otaku. He's a humanist and believes in the power of art to change the 'human heart', he believes he can change society with his works, and it's noble, but you don't have to share his views.
>>135833579
How much of his life did he spend watching little girls, then?
Filthy pedo.
>>135837664
That's just how the visual arts always works. It comes down to the difference between drawing with reference to reality and drawing with reference to understood "correct" ways of drawing things. That's why so many Renaissance painters drew women who looked like men, for instance: they learned to draw male arms, legs, and anatomy, and in many cases (Michelangelo comes to mind) just had to adjust the secondary characteristics of otherwise "male" figures they were drawing to try to make them appear female.
Revolutions in the arts have frequently taken the form of artists breaking from inherited "correct" ways of drawing things and making original styles, Much of the time this is a matter of drawing from real life instead of drawing "from memory."
That's always going to be true in the anime industry. Artists will draw from memory. They don't have a group of schoolgirls in the studio modeling for them and playing out all the scenes according to storyboards. But good artists base their memory on the memory of real things, and will do independent study in situations where they don't feel like they can faithfully reproduce something.
But, of course, humans are everywhere. You can't really go very long without looking at people. Do you think that animator on the train on his way to work isn't sharing a lot of his breathing space with other men and women? Do you think he's not looking at them and thinking about their poses? Some might not do this. It's entirely plausible that lots of them do, though.
But there are conventions of the art style that, though they are based in reality, are not realistic. Tsuri and tare eye styles, for instance, are derived from cats and dogs, but used to distinguish people. Unnatural hair colours are used to add visual distinction to certain characters. I don't think these are necessarily a bad thing. I think the Japanese generally distinguish themselves by favouring stylization over realism.
>>135837925
maybe he is talking beyond the animation, he has said that he bases characters on real people when writing them. a lot of anime is about ridiculous characters in ridiculous scenarios
>>135837925
>That's why so many Renaissance painters drew women who looked like men
Stopped reading right there.
Also Michelangelo knew how to draw women moron.
>>135837925
>they don't have a group of schoolgirls in the studio modeling for them
Then what's good is japan then? No wonder Korean studios are making more and more bank.
>>135837393
>mass produced garbage.
The fat of being mass produced does not make it garbage. Things can be entertaining without being 2deep4u.
>>135838419
>Also Michelangelo knew how to draw women moron.
Picture is what I had in mind. Leonardo was worse for it, though. There's this painting he drew of a woman with a marmot where the marmot has this big beefy bicep because he thought that's how you were supposed to draw arms.
Titian, on the other hand, knew how to draw women, and knew how to paint soft-looking flesh.
Example of Titian's way of painting women that is not derived from drawing men
>>135838963
Posting pornography on /a/ is forbidden.
Another Michelangelo depiction of a woman.
>>135838825
And what's wrong with that image?
Also
http://www.nationalgallery.org.uk/paintings/michelangelo-the-entombment
Stop being a fuckign moron. Women weren't retarded blubs of fat like now back then.
>>135839054
>>135838963
>There's only one way to draw women BAWW
And here's Leonardo. The upper body on the woman is fine but her face and hands are both pretty masculine.
It was an ermine, not a marmot. But that's not how the little creature's arm ought to look.
These are examples of people drawing according to "rules" of drawing rather than basing their art in reality. Even though he probably had a model in front of him that he was drawing, he still had to depict her in a flattering way (because of how things happened) and maybe the creature wasn't sitting still enough for him to look at it properly. So he decided, what this animal needs is a big beefy bicep.
>>135839148
>What's wrong with that image?
I can't really fix your vision over the internet, but she's basically a man with tits. I'm not the only person who has this opinion about Michelangelo either, this is a commonly held attitude among art historians.
>my ancient artist > your ancient artist
Jesus christ /a/ stop it.
>>135839177
I'm not saying one style is better than the other, I'm saying one is based on recollection of the rules of drawing, and the other is based on a study of reality. Leonardo and Michelangelo both studied male anatomy intensely and just adjusted this study in their depiction of women. But they kept it there so you still see the broad shoulders (in Michelangelo's case) and the enormous hands (in Leonardo's case), even when they were drawing live models, because their attitude about "how hands look" was interfering with with what they were seeing.
John Ruskin wrote a good essay series on this called "Modern Painters."
To bring this back to anime, what I'm saying is that Miyazaki's statement that people should draw from reality rather than from ideals has basis in history.
>>135839245
Genuine autism in this thread, holy shit.
Here's a picture of an ermine. As you can see it doesn't have human musculature on its arm. Leonardo added that because he thought it conformed to the rules of drawing.
/a/ should crowdfund a billion dollar ressurection kickstarter so we can bring Kon back and make anime great again
>>135839193
Look at shoulders, clearly not a man. You never seen a working womans hands before? You must be really sheltered kid.
Also yes animals have muscles too.
>she's basically a man with tits
It's starting to feel like all you retarded art types that are so fucking intelligent when you have read one book about it are actually morons.
>>135839278
> broad shoulders and the enormous hands
Yes, women are similar looking to men the similarities are not like house cat and a tiger. You are absolutely far beyond gone to the retarded side.
>>135833579
If I wanted realistic women I'd go outside
>>135839278
>John Ruskin
Also forgot. He was a naturalistic moron with ,funnily enough, clear misunderstanding of reality. Horrible read and person.
>>135839451
Did you notice I said her upper body was fine?
>>135839451
He's just comparing them to average modern women in the 1st world
People view anime because they "hate" or "dislike" real people and want to go into a medium where they can feel comfortable lying to themselves that things are ok if I just enjoy anime and manga.
As he said, not much of anime is taken from real life and people will defend that saying it isn't a bad thing. Which is downright retarded because EVERY drawing medium HAS to take aspects from real life in some way shape or form for the person to even comprehend it. Anime does more harm than good to people who would rather choose to not go outside or be productive in order to live a otaku or close to it lifestyle.
That's what I feel he means, people are becoming too detached from reality when it comes to anime and in turn when they HAVE to go outside (cause you know, in order to have that "great" anime/manga lifestyle you have to go outside some time) they feel threatened, awkward, weird, insecure and many other fucked up traits.
There's a reason Western Comic isn't seen as better than Anime/Manga. That's because Comic puts a lot of real world issues into it and people who are pussy just don't want to deal with it. Sure its great to watch a show for nothing more than a stupid non-realistic plot. That's not the issue, the issue is that 90% or more of the damn Anime/Manga medium IS this stupid shit and it mentally drains the human being consuming it.
Case and Point, sometimes even grown men on /a/ don't want to accept how much of a weirdo they're becoming from what many will claim as an "hobby".
>>135836915
I don't know. I'm just interpreting what he said.
>>135839543
You are assuming that I care about becoming a weirdo and that I want a normal and "great" life.
>>135839543
I agree with your view, but that drabble sounds like an agenda to me.
>>135839401
I'm in
>>135839494
And then you started to talk about face. I'm sorry I got confused with your retarded logic. Also like I said face (never seen a woman without makeup?) and hands (never seen working woman?) are absolutely perfect.
>>135839504
It's obvious.
>>135833579
>Has anime become too self-referential and disconnected from the 'real world'?
Well, sure, but I don't think it's necessarily an issue that's restricted to female characters.
Is it going to be reflected in them? Sure, the female characters are going to be on the merchandise, they're going to be in the PVs and you're going to want to be hiring popular VAs just to cover all your bases, so they're going to be designed to certain tastes and they're going to be at the vanguard of promotion.
There's that thread about the Daicon IV movie in the catalog.
>>135834977
The argument there is about methods of animation.
But if you look at that, look at the shit in that movie. You've got the whole thing set to Electric Light Orchestra. Is there Japanese shit in it? Sure, the meat of the thing opens up with her fighting Zakus, then she runs past a bunch of kaiju to get into a duel with Darth Vader before brawling with a Xenomorph and a Transformer. Later she surfs by western superheroes of note. And that's not scratching the surface.
Is it just a bunch of visual shoutouts, sure, but you can tell that the guys that made it were worldly, were versed in multiple mediums of fiction and could draw inspiration from that.
I'm not saying westaboo mangaka are going to be making the best stuff by default, but by virtue of being exposed to more works, they have a larger pool of reference to draw from.
And that I think is the lynchpin of the stuff vets like Miyazaki and Anno talk about. That the medium and market is just dominated and crippled by this self-amplifying cycle of people only interested in a narrow field of subject matter, so you end up with a billion LNs that are the exact same plot with the names changed.
>>135839543
>Case and Point, sometimes even grown men on /a/ don't want to accept how much of a weirdo they're becoming from what many will claim as an "hobby".
>people are antisocial because they watch anime
Kill yourself, retard. I've always been this way, and started watching anime only when I was 24. Before that I haven't seen a single minute of anime, except Maya the Bee.
>>135839983
>Before that I haven't seen a single minute of anime, except Maya the Bee.
Contradict yourself and then try to make a really fail attempt at retort. You don't think watching more anime will make you worse do you? Probably not, I'm getting a sense you enjoy it which in that case you didn't prove me wrong but instead agreed with me.
>>135839543
I don't think an anime needs to be about exlusively superpowers and fly away from earth to be great.
Simple ones which are about real life and contain real life problems can be great, but they are far less popular than the ones I mentioned due to a simple reason.
We are humans, we want to experience things what we can't in real life due to restricions. We all want to feel powerful, do great things which will probably never achieve in real life.
Young males are the perfect example of this. They have dreams, and they want to dream big. As for adults even if reality sucked their life away, they still love to dream. It's the part of being a human.
It would be boring, shallow as fuck if these these didn't exist.
However "some" people love to cross the line between reality and non-reality and thats were they fuck up.
>>135840110
>Contradict yourself
But I didn't. You know the meaning of the word except, right? Learn to read.
>>135833579
Not sure what the problem is
Isn't the point of anime escaping the shitty reality you live in?
>>135840190
>I haven't seen a single minute of anime
>except Maya the Bee
Not him, but you really need to understand what you type anon.
>>135833579
I hope you realize he was talking about the literal animation, right? Like, drawing/animating characters who move as real people do. He's not talking about how there aren't enough epic deep shows like in the golden age of the nineties. He's also been giving this same fucking spiel for over thirty years.
>>135833579
He is right.
Looking at the people on this thread, I realize how patethic this board is.
You guys are the closest to rk9 on this site, you all have shit taste and autism.
anime is shit
here's tom with the weather
>>135833579
He's pretty much 100% right.
>>135833579
He made a bunch of children's films that happened to be made with conventional animation. That doesn't make him an authority on Japanese anime.
People inflate the importance of what he says because they think he's one of the legends of the industry, but the thing is his work never had the same level of seriousness you find in modern anime and manga. All of his movies are just a mishmash of fantastical imagery with a story that works itself out in the end "because of magic" rather than being stories of characters being confronted with difficult choices and forming meaningful relationships with one another.
The best of modern anime is the kind of thing Miyazaki has never produced. All he can say authoritatively is that all anime should be like the stuff he made.
>>135840236
No? Not every piece of a médium needs to be mindless escapism for people with mental and social problems.
>>135839983
Anime might have made me more antisocial. I can't really tell, because I got into it around starting college, so I didn't have parents to pressure me into being social anymore.
>>135841065
>Ad Hominen
>>135841109
He's specifically saying that people give importance to Miyazaki's words because of who he is, so ad hominem doesn't apply.
>>135841109
Let me put it this way, then.
Miyazaki is speculating about the production of "almost all anime" and the sophistication of the people producing it. However, he himself has never produced one of these works.
You don't think girls like Yui Hirasawa and Ritsu Tanaika exist in real life? How about Osaka from Azumanga? The reason these shows are popular is because they DO resemble real people. If he means visually, then I don't remember any hyper-realistic Studio Ghibli animation. Cartoon characters don't look realistic.
make cartoons children understand
big fucking secret
>>135836076
There's nothing someone could say to you that wouldn't result in you just contradicting them with a smug reaction picture, because you've already convinced yourself that "all modern anime is garbage." But anyone who actually watches anime knows that Cowboy Bebop isn't some ascended masterpiece that has never been matched. There's been at least one anime every year since it aired that's been as good as Cowboy Bebop.
I think it's more noticeable depending on the kind of show.
Dialogue heavy shows really do suffer from the whole "Why don't these characters act remotely like real human beings?" thing but in the more over the top and bombastic shows it is either less noticeable or less importance is put on it.
>>135837393
This.
It's why mathematics is an art, but only a understand that and appreciate that.
>>135839543
> There's a reason Western Comic isn't seen as better than Anime/Manga
> 90% or more of the damn Anime/Manga medium IS this stupid shit and it mentally drains the human being consuming it.
But 90% of western comic are super heroes fighting against hitler or stalin. Tell me it isnt retarded.
>>135841204
>>135841156
This is still empty Ad hominen. Discuss what he said, not who said it.
If he didn't have produced said content, it still wouldn't invalidate him. Its like saying that to make critics, you need to do better.
Also, Miyazaki IS considered one of the greatest directors and writters of animation, you liking it or not.
>>135841422
>but only a understand that and appreciate that.
no wonder that people who like math suck ass in languages kek.
>>135841524
>Almost all Japanese animation is produced with hardly any basis taken from observing real people, you know. It’s produced by humans who can’t stand looking at other humans.
He is speculating about the motives and dispositions of the people producing anime that he doesn't like. My point is that he can't really speculate about this because he's never been involved in the production of any of this anime. Since he's stating his assumptions as fact, it's perfectly relevant that there is no basis for his opinions.
>>135837393
Actually most moe shit is the equivalent of junky food. Funny enough, people on /a/ are the type that die because eat too much junk food.
Basically /a/ knows that is patethic, but don't care, and would happilly take the entire médium down with them and their shit taste.
>>135841524
I specifically just told you how it's not ad hominem, but whatever. Keep thinking that any form of critiquing a person is ad hominem.
>>135839543
>People view anime because they "hate" or "dislike" real people and want to go into a medium where they can feel comfortable lying to themselves that things are ok if I just enjoy anime and manga.
False.
Though I agree with the rest.
>>135841588
He works at the industry for decades, idiot. He obviously knows people who work at the industry, better than anyone on this site.
>>135833579
Cartoons don't have to be realistic.
>>135841715
How often do you think he's worked with any of the kind of people he's talking about? He's a fucking seventy-year-old movie director, it's not like he's chumming around with new key animators at Gokumi or something.
>>135841642
And I explained why it is actually an Ad hominen senpai.
Who he is isn't important, what others think isn't important, but the mensage.
>>135841528
I sear the "few" was real, but it was imaginary all along.
>>135841834
I work in a shitty cannadian show, and still know, interacted, or worked along plenty of people who work on the "big" cartoons of the West. Its a small communitty, and even more on Japan.
>>135841852
You're trying to discuss something different, though, but I'm not going to bother explaining to someone who can barely keep an English sentence straight.
>>135833579
I think Miyazaki is being too harsh here. Sure many studios produce shows about idealized women, but that doesn't negate their creativity or the humanity of the characters. If anything, more studios than ever are making realistically written, interesting female characters.
>>135839543
>That's because Comic puts a lot of real world issues into it
What? Like "mansplaining" and "transmisogyny"? I don't understand why anybody would want that kind of shit in their entertainment, it's like bringing politics at the dinner table, only it's completely one-sided and you're basically being preached at by some fucking mouthbreathing looney with spit flying out of his mouth.
I think if he has such a problem with otaku he should take his oscars, come to america and start making beyonce and lady gaga music videos. Perhaps he could get lucky and draw some kind of backdrop for a reality show.
>>135842227
Stop reading Marvel and that single Wonder woman story. Read good writters casual.
>>135841071
Every entertainment is escapism.
>>135842340
>Read good writters casual.
I do, that's why I read manga and only manga.
>>135833579
Of course he's right. It's especially funny when people argue that stuff like lolicon exists in the vacuum and is not inspired by reality, just because it's a weird thing to admit.
>>135841715
>better than anyone on this site.
And that's just the problem. People will believe anything he says at face value because we assume he knows what he's talking about. But anyone who has watched anime in the last ten years knows that what he's saying is full of shit. Anime is full of good, interesting characters that are good precisely because they remind us of real people. Why do you think one slice-of-life show becomes more beloved than the other? Why do you think people love shows like Yuyushiki and Non Non Biyori so much? If it's just the moe art style, then we'd like pretty much every moe SOL as long as the characters looked cute, but that's clearly not the case.
Miyazaki is oversimplifying to the point of being wrong. Plenty of manga and anime are directly based in reality. Plenty of realistic characters exist. And plenty of people enjoy anime and manga because of the human stories that they tell.
>>135842499
Not everyone needs to be junk food tier.
This quote is exactly right, and it's why anime will always be seen as a childish thing to watch. 99% of anime characters don't look or act like human beings in the slightest.
>>135842691
>Anime is full of good, interesting characters that are good precisely because they remind us of real people
lol
>Why do you think people love shows like Yuyushiki and Non Non Biyori so much?
Perverts and lonely nerds.
>>135842795
How is this a bad thing?
>>135842691
Not him, but its obvious that you are just a moe loli apologist. The animes that you choose will never be remembered in 10 years.
>>135842799
Nice bait.
>>135842828
How is to have shit taste? You probably only read books with beutiful pictures to colour right? Probably also loves Barney
>>135842828
It's bad because the 99% I mentioned are stock, generic, predictable, and absolutely boring to watch. Anime isn't a bad medium, but people who wish every anime was like K-ON are the reason it's is seen as one. In fact, most of them are just meant as jackoff material for neckbeards that have never talked to a human being, so it makes sense.
>>135841408
I noticed it in bakemonogatari, on how nonhuman the characters act.
But the thing is, that people that don't interact with other humans don't even see it because they lack the experience.
>>135842860
Koma-chan doesn't act like a real human being. Her innocence, immaturity and clumsiness is fetishized. Otaku, who are mostly emotionally stunted men, find it arousing and/or cute.
>>135842799
So let's take Non Non Biyori as a good example.
Renge is a young girl growing up in the country without any peers her own age. She spends a lot of her time playing alone in the fields and does things like make friends with animals and grow deeply attached to the wildlife. She's curious and precocious and always asking her older peers to explain things to her. Because of her lack of exposure to kids her own age, her manner of communicating with people around her is a little awkward, and there's a whole episode dedicated to showcasing how sheltered she is compared with people who live in the big city. Lots of people love Renge because she reminds them of real children and behaves the way that kids her age actually act. Plenty of people such as myself love that show because of how it depicts the "sheltered" country life and the ways in which people in small communities interact with one another.
Do you think Renge is an unrealistic character that's not based in observing real people?
I could go on about the other characters in that show, but you'd just tell me they're all tired overused character tropes that don't represent reality, even though the opposite is clearly the case. Not to mention I doubt you've watched it if your comment is sincere and not just a troll.
>>135842691
People will believe anything he says at face value because we assume he knows what he's talking about.
Its not even just him, mlre than ever plenty of people has being saying the same, people who work on the industry. Even /a/ has a suddenly case of good taste and complain about it too sometimes. Are you new here?
Does /a/ have a list of socially realistic anime?
I was always socially detached but I think it's gotten worse since I started watching.
After the dreadful 2015 Winter is yet another shitty season. He was right.
This has become a contest about who's more normal while labeling others as gross nerds
fucking end yourselves, all of you
>>135833579
>Cowboy Bebops, or Ghost In The Shells?
You mean shitty anime fueled by nostalgia goggles? Im glad we dont have more of those, to be honest.
>>135843056
>Does /a/ have a list of socially realistic anime?
Any Mari Okada anime. I'm 100% serious.
>>135843056
More like it got worse and the best way to escape you've found is anime.
>>135843109
there's nothing wrong with being a 'gross nerd'
just stop ruining anime
>>135843109
GO back to rk9 them.
Is this the bait eating thread?
>>135842935
Source? Where are your statistics coming from?
>>135843056
Studio Ghibli movies and Aku No Hana are all I can think of off the top of my head.
>>135843211
You could visit chinese 4chan more and see yourself.
>>135842967Don't call her Koma-chan.
>>135843153
Nah man, I was kind reserved when I started, but now any social situation with more than three people makes me legitimately uncomfortable.
But watching normie shows is fucking boring and generic as well.
>>135843285
How are Ghibli movies "socially realistic?" They all just have "do the right thing" protagonists living in a world of bad guys.
>>135833798
They're not. There are people who are very tsundere and yandere.
Fiction always had stories of the very abnormal.
>>135843056
>I was always socially detached but I think it's gotten worse since I started watching.
Same here
Just be exigent about anime. Remember when you got attracted to a PV or a picture, and later you got dissapointed by the show.
Instead of looking for some anime or manga to watch or read, let the show "finds" you.
tl;drkill yourself
>>135843310
Or you could give me some sources instead of just making constant generalizations.
>>135843153
>He doesn't want to know the truth
>>135841524
You're an idiot.
It's not ad hominem if what he did is a personal attack as well. He's the one who's bringing character into this, thus one can fully judge his character.
>>135843377
>Instead of looking for some anime or manga to watch or read, let the show "finds" you.
That actually makes a lot of sense, some of my favorite shows are ones that I just stumbled upon.
Like boku dake ga inai michi, I had no intention of watching it before one of my steam friends told me it was good, watched the first episode and I haven't been this involved in a show in years.
>>135843026
Do you think "almost all" anime fits the generalization Miyazaki is making?
>>135843403
I'm not the same anon. But you really expect someone to act autistic and make a graph just because someone insulted the generic moe trash that /a/ is always complaining about?
>>135843493
Yeah, I usually expect people to back up their arguments.
I guess that was very naive of me.
>I'm right because I know I'm right, and if you don't agree with me it's because you're too stupid
Once you reach this point it's time to stop replying
>>135839543
I like 3D and 2D
What now faggot
>>135843026
>mlre than ever plenty of people has being saying the same, people who work on the industry.
Like who?
>>135843056
Most anime are socially realistic.
Realism just means it exists in the world. You think in a world of 7 billion people, there aren't at least a handful who are hyper eccentric?
Forget about Japan for now.
>>135843440
You doesn't seems to know what Ad Hominen is.
>>135841408
>Characters staring at empty space or walls while quoting Freud and providing convenient information to the person facing the complete opposite direction of them
Unfortunately this sort of thing has just become an anime staple at this point
>>135833579
Anime is mostly shit, yes. And I agree about the reasons, although some good things come out of them.
>>135843486
Most anime is souless garbage.
>>135843125
Chuckled.
>>135843365
Simple- they're relatable without either making all the characters either a blank slate for the viewer to self insert as or making them a perfect Mary Sue for people to fawn over.
>>135843570
From your perspective I don't seem to because I don't get my information from edgy atheist articles about how to debate.
And it's Ad Hominem you idiot. There is no such thing as "Hominen" in Latin.
>>135835552
Pathetic weebs
>>135839148
that is literally a man are you blind. apparently he made androgynous/manly women because he was gay and people liked masculinity back then so theres another perspective
People have just gotten too use to archetypes and can't enjoy a show or a character unless they can pinpoint the exact character type they are within seconds of seeing their design.
>>135843552
>Most anime are socially realistic.
>Realism just means it exists in the world. You think in a world of 7 billion people, there aren't at least a handful who are hyper eccentric?
My god, you would be a shitty writter.
>>135833579
I agree with that.
If the writer of manga and producer of anime actually had any real human interaction, we would be getting anime/manga with better written stories and character.
Whenever I watch some haremshit, the first thing that comes to my mind is "whoever wrote this has never talked to a girl in his life".
Observing real life, real people and real events is the best source of well written character.
>>135843679
Perverted fans, not weebs.
They are weebs when they started using Japanese words with no intent of irony.
>>135843732
>I don't read manga
>>135839054
Obviously a bodybuilder girl
>>135843708
>Ad Hominem fallacy: The Post
I may be bad writer, because I wouldn't cater to the lowest common denominator with poor logic like you.
>>135843660
>uses the term in a wrong way
>get'se mad when pointed out
Why you even decided to talk about things that you don't know?
>>135843762
Who are you quoting anon?
>>135833579
Yes.
>>135833579
Realism is the cancer on every fucking medium. The problem is people who are too obsessed with real life and not being one of those "weird people" who actually care about a medium. Those are the ones who want to shape everything around reality and think that's what makes a good anime, or manga, or book, or movie.
>>135843734
I don't have enough respect for english slang not to misuse terms that everyone misuses.
>>135843802
I'm not the one using the term in bad way, you are.
And it's evident by the fact that you couldn't even spell it right until now. One could argue it's a typo on one occasion but after multiple offences, it really shows you lack any knowledge regarding the matter.
>>135843791
You are defending the most garbage and cliche anime archetypes and is talking about lowest com common denominator?
>>135843686
Yeah 2 in the middle are men, right and left are not. Retard.
>>135843791
>screams le ad honimeme
>le does it too
>>135833579
I mostly agree. Anime is definitely way too eager to wallow in it's own filth of repetitive cliches. It's gotten to the point where some people get confused when something ISN'T a cliche. A large portion of the industry is unwilling to leave it's tiny comfort zone.
>>135843851
Then write in an other language you fucking weeb.
>>135843552
This guy knows what he's talking about.
>>135843907
Va donc te faire enculer, paltoquet de ricain mal embouché
>>135843892
Because the comfort zone is the best zone. Ninety percent of attempts to do something "different" end up garbage. See: every Bones show in the last few years.
>>135833579
There are ways around it, Miura was in all aspects a wizard, but he compensated by reading as much manga and other fiction as he could.
>>135843890
How was my post an Ad Hominem? That would assume your post had an argument, which is an overstatement.
>>135843881
Keep doing the fallacy. And nothing should be assumed to be true. You should always be skeptical about general "truths". Your view that they are garbage is baseless anyway. The only thing you got going for it, is maybe a popular opinion in the internet which shouldn't mean much in reasoning.
Either you argue the point or don't bother arguing at all.
>>135843973
Better to try to do something different and fail than do something we've already seen a million times.
>>135843623
Watch Hanasaku Iroha and tell me the characters aren't realistic.
>>135843860
Here, this is a correct example of Ad Hominem. Attack the people and desqualiffy the argument based on that, instead of the content being said. In my opinion it's an example of childish argument, looking for easy validation.
Also, its already on autocorrect.
>>135843987
>spelling it "Ad Hominem" non ironically
Jesus fucking Christ.
I loathe the realism argument. All fiction by default is not realistic. You should aim for robust internal logic and consistency.
>>135843973
>See: every Bones show in the last few years.
>>135844037
>All fiction by default is not realistic.
Do idiots like you even know what realistic even means?
>>135844037
Robust internal logic and consistency are realistic.
>>135844011
No, it's not. Garbage is worse than something good that I've seen before. I'd rather watch a K-On clone, or an NGE clone, or read another Adachi manga about baseball, than Kekkai Sensen or Fractale or something.
>>135843987
>this is how a moe loli fan justify their shit taste.
>>135844083
You obviously don't.
>>135843964
J'ai niqué ta mère et ta copine, sale francais comme les soldats Américains avait baiser toutes vos femmes après la guerre. Vos "hommes" manquent de masculinité.
Les francais sont les cocus de royaume animal.
>>135844109
You seems to be the patethic manchild with the lowest common denominator taste, that the industry is aiming for. No surprise you like it.
These people basically drag everything down with their shit taste. Mr.Enter tier autism.
>>135844115
No, I like my tsunderes over the age of 16, thank you very much.
>>135844215
>ta copine
>/a/
>>135844224
So Fractale and Kekkai are good?
>>135834642
Nausica manga is amazing. Go read it.
>>135842990
Real kids are mean and demanding but there's none of that because the genre dictates nothing unpleasant ever happens between the characters, only funny or heartwarming moments. What's there of her personality is realistic but it feels idealized as well, as if any bad parts were omitted.
By the way, did anyone actually grow up in isolated countryside or closely know someone who did?
>>135844084
Not with regards to humans.
Emotions are not consistent and don't adhere to some logic. Unless you're looking at the general tendencies. But fiction is more about specific individuals.
>>135833579
>muh childlike wonder and innocence
Fuck you, you old hack. Real children are disgusting. They shit and piss all over everything and then expect you to clean it up. They drool and wipe boogers under furniture. They whine. I've never in my entire life known a little girl that decided to go on a wondrous adventure. All they do is grow up to be sick, sadistic whores who will divorce you for the fun of it and bleed you dry with alimony payment. You're the one who's out of touch.
>>135844115
>liking loli is now bad
Hello tumblr and SRS.
>Some people spend their lives interested only in themselves
>Fuck those shallow assholes
>They're not smart, deep, or considerate
>Like me
>>135844375
>. All they do is grow up to be sick, sadistic whores who will divorce you for the fun of it and bleed you dry with alimony payment. You're the one who's out of touch.
I see we have another victim of /pol/ and /r9k/
>>135844393
Apathy is death. Worse than death, because at least a rotting corpse feeds the beasts and insects.
>>135834313
I sort see where he's coming from. He's probably mainly referring to things like Araragi's toothbrushing scene, which is like it's lifted straight from an ecchi, or Senjougahara suddenly talking about Seme's and Uke's, which doesn't reflect how anyone who isn't Autistic talks.
>>135844285
Kekkai is excellent.
Fractale was so-so.
>>135844384
Its more like:
>a piece of media is good just because it has a loli
>>135833579
Is he the japanese Alan Moore?
>>135844427
Right, because /pol/ and /r9k/ hiveminds were the first ones in human history to see female promiscuity as a bad thing.
Women were always seen as leeches who will cheat on you very quickly. Ever since the Mesopotamians, Ancient Greeks and Chinese.
>>135833579 (OP)
>Celebrity leverages his privileged status to shit on an entire collective of people
>His fans lap it up and agree with it, in a misguided hope that doing so makes them more like him, and therefore, more likely to succeed
Every time.
>>135844444
Checked
>>135844465
>things no one ever said: The post.
>>135844438
Nietzsche pls go.
>>135844438
Shut the fuck up Kreia, the middle ground isn't apathy.
>>135844375
>All they do is grow up to be sick, sadistic whores who will divorce you for the fun of it and bleed you dry with alimony payment. You're the one who's out of touch.
It seems someone hurt you badly anon. I hope the wound in your heart heals fast before you derail even further.
It's unhealthy to be so depressed.
>>135844478
He's kinda like Trump when you think about it.
>>135844375
>a little girl that decided to go on a wondrous adventure
Well, most of his characters don't do it. Are you sure you watched Ghibli films?
>>135844515
Being interested only in yourself isn't a middle ground.
>>135844513
Who is this pseudointellectual? I'm getting actual intellectual quotes from video games not some weird mustache person.
>>135844549
WE NEED TO BUILD WALL TO KEEP OTAKU OUTSIDE
>>135844375
This. I would kill everyone in this world for peaceful life and all the anime.
He's right
The last decade of anime has been all about glorifying geeks and losers and NEETs, when anime should be encouraging you to go outside
thanks kyoani
>>135844478
>implying he and Anno aren't right.
>implying that the industry isn'tem full and pandering to otakus.
>implying that otakus doesn't have shit taste and love hugbox, junk food level escapism and bad writting.
>>135844616
nhk and eva are garbage though
>>135844438
When will japan make something as good as kreia?
>>135844668
>as good
>>135844609
Top edge
>>135844616
As always, the fact that someone included a video game tie-in about being in a video game on the left is amusing.
>>135833579
>Do you agree or disagree with his opinion? Are anime creators making idealized versions of women, or unrealistic ones?
Do we really have to worry about this? I mean c'mon, if that's it then the next logical step is to ask whether allmagic giant robots and staff realistic or not?
It is storytelling, they can use talking anthropomorphic cubes until they tell us a story.
>>135844690
Kreia is only the best character in all of video games.
>>135844664
Eva is garbage, but it's important for what standards it brought to the medium.
Will anime ever produce a modern masterpiece like this?
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=xQBGmBOhQEE
>>135844699
You would not? get out.
>>135844616
That's kinda funny, because those two ideas aren't mutually exclusive and kind of feed into one another. The image is also obviously bait but it's kind of interesting.
>>135844764
>best character in all of video games
damn, that's an achievement
>>135844757
>It is storytelling, they can use talking anthropomorphic cubes until they tell us a story.
>Yutapon writes a script
>>135844393
>>135833579
This literally doesn't mean anything
>>135844788
I don't know if you're sarcastic or not, but I found it to be good.
>>135844616
>WataMoe
>glorify neet
you are full of shit, anon
