ITT: MC's that actually worked hard to get strong and wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs
>>135582165
Hard Work and Effort, the character. So much so that when he gets a special powerit causes a breakdown. And the second power he gets is basically anti-special snowflake.
obligatory
>>135582289
He had the power of autism though.
>>135582165
Naruto.
>>135582289
Please, he was a total special snowflake genius, I'm not gonna take away some of his hard work but for the most part the fact that he became so strong and skillful in such a short time was complete bullshit, the others characters kept mentioning how he wasn't "normal", how he was different and special, and all that sort of bullshit. Honestly, this manga doesn't deserve half the praise it gets.
>>135582741
Guts is pretty fucking talented though.
>>135582671
irony is his lack of being special made him the special one.
![one-punch-man-anime-feat[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/9G4DyKP.jpg "one-punch-man-anime-feat[1].jpg")
>>135583082
Guts had a hard life
>>135583155
>Souma
>Not a special snowflake
delusional faggot pls
>>135583187
>implying his willpower isn't special snowflake tier
>>135583155
>wasn't some special snowflake or had a family lineage
>Soma
>>135582885
Makes no sense how you can say this when the Op used Kenichi. Kenichi improved at a ridiculous rate, literally faster than Ippo who we known to have tons of natural talent.
In fact, the masters clearly said he had talent. It was just his talent was at working hard and not giving up, which is a type of mental fortitude talent contrary to /a/'s beliefs. There's no fucking magic spirit, your brain is either capable of handling the stress load or it isn't and despite Kenichi never having any sort of background of working hard in his life unlike Ippo who worked as a fisherman his whole life, Kenichi still possesses far more mental fortitude having been raised as a normal child with nothing lacking.
That's no different than autism. Just like >>135582289 and LMS's Weed. Part of the struggle for average people is the struggle to maintain discipline. People who take it in as if it's natural will obviously have an advantage when dedicating themselves.
>>135582810
please be trolling.
That's naruto original premise, it all went to shit in the later part when you found out that he was from one of the strongest lineages (reason why is chakra was so huge). and the other parent was the fucking hokage.
If it wasnt for the fox and his absurd chakra, he would have RIPt right at the beginning of the series.
>>135583212
training since early age =/= special snow flake
those will be erinas tonge or nosefag
He was garbage tier Saiyan when born.
Nigga been making gains since he was 7
>>135583297
Was prophetized to defeat Freezer
>>135583326
nope, haki of conqueror, he is special snow flake
>>135583292
His father was a top student at the same school. He's definitely a special snowflake.
>>135583345
Nothing to do with him training really hard to become strong though. He does not have any latent powers.
>>135583292
He is the son of one of the greatest chefs in the world, and has been working at his restaurant since he was a kid. Or did you just forget that? Hell there are plenty of times when it feels like soma wins just cause he's MC
A better example would have been Megumi
>>135583297
By that logic Arale was made of nuts and bolts you could buy at Home Hardware, yet she's still stronger than everyone in Dragon Ball put together.
>>135583369
>haki of conqueror
It seems like that's pretty common at this point in the story.
>>135583369
> Haki of the conqueror he doesn't get until he's 17
> Lot of good conqueror did Ace
Luffy worked his ass off for his power m8
>>135583398
>>135583385
in my book training since kid pass by. having a genetical feature of something that has not explanation pass by as snowflake
>>135583451
hey if you want to get technical, one of the few reason he endure that long is cause rubber minimize impacts, were he being a normal human like Sanji he would get trashed
>>135583448
That's because everyone showing up with it is a big shot. Do you claim people who are 8 feet tall are common because you are watching the ape hoop?
>>135583451
>Literally a D.
No one is denying Luffy worked hard, but he was special from the start.
>>135583369
He had to work very very hard to truly unlock it though. I know he always had it in him but that doesn't mean he had it easy.
>>135583510
>in my book training since kid pass by. having a genetical feature of something that has not explanation pass by as snowflake
Using your logic any rich kid who is pampered and given elite education isn't special, he just worked hard with the massive advantage given since birth and used it to get ahead even more of his generation.
![853654054[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/XEQop5P.png "853654054[1].png")
we all know he's the real MC anyway
>>135583326
>literally the son of the dragon
Read a book nigger.
>>135583550
>or had family lineage bs
What part of this do you not understand? Luffy has lucked out so many times even blind niggers can see it.
>>135583550
>MC's that actually worked hard to get strong AND wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs
it has to apply to eveything
>>135583256
Well you're sorta assuming I know anything about fucking Kenichi bu I get your point, and it does make sense, but it's still not enough to not consider >>135582289 as special snowflake, you mentioned Ippo and how Kenichi and Yuu are flying past him and learning everything like it ain't no thang but the thing is Ippo himself is a fucking hard worker like no other, isn't that alone somewhat of a proof of how much of special snowflakes Kenichi and Yuu are? Hard work can only take them so far and so fast, it is all mostly talent.
>>135583593
He was practically raised and trained by the son of a Gorosei.
>>135583326
He's the most wanted man's son, also Garp's grandson
Also a D.
Also Conqueror's Haki
He's quite the special snowflake
>>135583482
A pretty funny example, considering the first two times someone tried to just grant him power he wound up having to train to use it properly anyways, and then he went andfailed his shonen combat powerup trial
>>135583606
Which does nothing for him in terms of power. At best, it made him slightly more notorious after the timeskip
>>135583664
That was never confirmed
Just some chink spoilers with no source
>>135583432
What?
Goku was dumped on Earth because he was considered shitty, he only became strong because he trained nonstop. Even when Raditz appeared he was weak.
>>135583550
>truly unlock it though
conquerors haki is something you are born with
>>135583391
Even Vegeta that was a prodigious, and had both talent and hard work couldn't hope to compete with Goku that was already SSJ3 by the time that Vegeta couldn't even achieve SSJ2 without a cheat.
Goku is super special snowflake even if no one says it every week, his gains from his regular training is absurd compared to other regular saiyan.
>>135583245
I think it easily transcends that.
>>135583716
90% true, the last 10% is the saiyan hack that if they recover after close to dead thats a free boost
>>135583728
>no one says it every week, his gains from his regular training is absurd c
Nothing compared to Frieza
The true MC.
>>135583757
Yeah, but it does not count if you look at it relative to other Saiyans.
>>135582165
Rakudai. He has shit for magic but trained 20 hours a day.
>>135582165
>hard work in a fiction
>like it matters
It's just bs from author the same as any. Protagonists are always snowflake.
>>135583662
>you mentioned Ippo and how Kenichi and Yuu are flying past him and learning everything like it ain't no thang but the thing is Ippo himself is a fucking hard worker like no other, isn't that alone somewhat of a proof of how much of special snowflakes Kenichi and Yuu are?
So if I take 50 years to learn how to play a violin, that makes an average person who learned in years "talented" and a special snowflake?
Only reason Ippo improves so slowly is to keep the manga going, there's no in-universe reason for it.
>>135582671
reposting this to emphasize.
>>135583182
Meta as fuck.
>>135582165
Great now post a series that isnt utter shit
>>135583662
Wait wait I did not say Yuu surpassed Ippo. I only said Kenichi. Yuu is the most average out of everyone listed so far, and that much should be obvious to anyone who has read/watched everything listed so far.
The reason Yuu can progress faster than Ippo is unlike Kenichi, who is constantly just more special and fighting monsters. Yuu is the opposite. He's fighting fags on the streets, most of whom don't train, and the ones that do aren't anything special when it comes to the pro level either.
He also gets literally whooped quite a few times, whereas Ippo literally lost only twice despite face tanking people for over 1000 chapters.Yuu would have died if he even tried that for 100.
The only difference is that Yuu isn't dumb like most of his opponents, because again, most of the opponents in Holyland are retards and drop outs. Look what happens when he fights Charisma. He gets owned because his biggest advantage, wits, is outclassed. Charisma wasn't actually completely /fit/ as he was still in a slump and keeping his head down from the Yakuza, while Yuu was going balls out getting battle experience over and over keeping in constant peak condition, yet the latter still lost.
It's a part of why in the epilogue Charisma and the other guy fight at the pro level for the world title, while Yuu remains on the streets. He can't graduate, because that's his limit and he accepts that completely, and in exchange we get to see how he adopts Charisma's street fighting teachings and masters them.
>>135582165
Ah gou lives a thug life
>>135583883
>Only reason Ippo improves so slowly is to keep the manga going
Taking fifty punches to the head in each match probably affects his improvement as well.
>>135583155
>manga tries to make Souma the one guy with no talent who climbed the steps through sheer willpower and practice
>he's one of the most gifted cooks in the whole manga
Just fuck my writing up.
>>135583711
I was kidding, cause you know Zoro isn't the MC.
>>135583923
>son of a goddess
>not special
>>135583923
>Half god
>Son of the most powerful human
>Easily learned the Dark One's shit
Definitely not a special snowflake.
>>135583883
Nah not true, an average speed for learning any activity always exists, based around that average those who master such activity or learn it at a much faster rate are considered talented. Whether Ippo's learning progress is slow or not I don't know simply because I'm not that much into boxing to have a point of comparison.
>>135583923
>Grandson of a fucking elder god
>Gets generic "My power is to weaken you!" ability that has no counters
>Not a special snowflake
>>135582165
Adlet from rokka no yuusha. Spent 8 years training under some old fart that beat him every day and teched him how to hunt demons
>>135583716
Doesn't change a thing, Arale is made from parts you can find at a junk yard. Her design is so simple it can be mass produced. Obotchaman is proof of this.
And once again, they still shit on everything in Dragon Ball no problem.
>>135583398
>He is the son of one of the greatest chefs in the world, and has been working at his restaurant since he was a kid.
Yeah that's the reason for his skills.
But that's not what "talent" is. Sure if someone starts something on an early age he gets an advantage compared to other people, but talent is a different thing.
Although the same could be said for almost everybody in the story
>>135583975
>>135583973
>Got the shit kicked out of him and learned hard work and worked his ass off to get to the top
>Special snowflake
Is this fag plain enough for you faggots
>>135582885
>Honestly, this manga doesn't deserve half the praise it gets.
Stay mad faggot. Holy Land deserve all the heavenly praises it gets.
Yuu wasn't a special snowflake genius either, he was, until the start of the story a hikikomori and sometime later became a dropout, if I remember. If you're referring to his fighting style, he wasn't a genius in that regard either.
And the reason others held him in high regard was because he learnt his own fighting style empirically, he self-taught himself from reading and all, he honed his skills alone, unlike some of the other characters who had otherwise went to the gym or learnt from someone else, to them it was an exceptional feat and likely irked them to no end. Notably that how Shougo felt and why Shougo sought Yuu as his rival and wanted to defeat him. It was also commented on how Yuu fighting style is flawed and because they helped him, Yuu gradually became a better fighter. Another notably example is Yuu fight with the Kenpo drug dealer, Yuu used everything he was taught by his comrades to defeat him.
>>135583662
>Hard work can only take them so far and so fast, it is all mostly talent.
Same applies for pure talent. Is like something said on certain manga. Not everyone who works hard gets rewarded but everyone who succeed has worked hard.
I mean he kinda IS a special snowflake, but it's not like it helped him whatsoever.
>>135584018He's Ri Boku's nephew
>>135583954
He's gifted because of nurture, not nature. But it's still an unfair advantage that didn't come from sheer hardwork. You can't just hard work your way as a sperm into being born as a son of a top tier chef. Not only would that imply you have sentience as a sperm, but you would somehow need to be able to choose which sperm you possess instead of just luck out and be the sperm that just happened to enter Souma's mom's womb otherwise it's just as luck based.
So unless you worked your ass in heaven, hell, or whatever reincarnation cycle non-sense you believe in and cheated the system, you didn't do SHIT to earn that spot as Jouichirou's son.
![17ea59b9e0084f9fe7aab99d23f1bdce[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/1accNha.jpg "17ea59b9e0084f9fe7aab99d23f1bdce[1].png")
>>135583915
Does matter if the people he was fighting at the time were fags because he was an even bigger fag at the time but still defeated them "somehow" and he also fought talented martial artists and kept winning, and just like Ippo he kept getting hit and hit and always stood up, because he was a "beast", he was "different", special, you name it, whether Yuu Kamishiro is as much of a snowflake and Kenichi or other characters mentioned in this thread doesn't matter, the point is that he's still a special snowflake even if of a lesser degree.
>ITT: Anyone's who'de moderately good at anything is a special snowflake
There's no winning with you guys.
>>135584050
>AND wasn't some special snowflake OR had family lineage bs
Pic related
>>135583981
>based around that average those who master such activity or learn it at a much faster rate are considered talented
But that's both incorrect and inaccurate.
Let's say two people have the same amount of talent, but one only practices 1 hour a day, while the other person practices 10 hours a day, objectively speaking it's wrong to say the latter is more talented because he improved faster. He improved faster because he put in more time and effort, because he had different priorities and probably missed on a lot of time he could have spent with his family and friends like the other person. Talent has nothing to do with it.
As such it's infantile to even consider quantifying people's talents based on a principle like that, because you know absolutely nothing about their lives, their method of learning, their level of concentration or self-discipline to keep them from thinking about other things in the middle of the session, etc.
>>135584094
>Has inhuman endurance due to his ability to enhance his oxygen intake
>Can send oxygen pulses directly to his muscles to hit harder than a truck
>Can manipulate the air around him to make jet engine sounds when using the Dempsey roll for dramatic effect
>Can send copious amounts of pure oxygen to his brain to cause illusions that help him come back from the brink of unconsciousness
>Getting slapped on the back allows him to become invincible
>Yamaoto damashii
>When in a bind he can turn into an Oxygen Elemental to avoid physical damage for three turns
Ippo is fucking broken, face it.
>>135584003
Only reason he might count is because he's still flawed as hell, but it was his luck that allowed him to live long enough to meet Astro Spiker instead of die like everyone else.
>>135584018
>90+alpha
>+alpha
>alpha
Nope. Only 3 people in the series have alphas, Kyoukai with HUGE alpha, Shin with alpha, and Bajio with alpha.
Not even Yotanwa or Ouki or Houken or Renpahas alpha.
Literally more special than Conq Haki.
Everything he gained was the result of beyond batshit insane training.
>>135584177
![blood-and-steel-l0[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/v91hNM4.jpg "blood-and-steel-l0[1].jpg")
Literally nothing Mary Sue-ish about him at all
>>135584264
>Son of the worlds strongest man
>>135584230
Family lineage? That's one objective qualifier. I won't discuss it.
Special snowflake? What's the definition of it? People are even calling someone who has proper high-quality education in whatever a special snowflake. Whatever they do, no matter how, when or with who, they are special snowflake garty stu choosen one.
>>135582289
>kid who learned boxing from books is able to defeat much bigger fighters who trained since childhood and with much more experience in both competition and street fighting
>not a special snowflake
>>135584286
>It almost never updates
It's a fucking shame I love the idea of it
>>135584069
Most of the character are self taught, it's a manga about street fighting and thugs, thugs don't got to gym to learn, they all learn that shit on the street even if they don't become very good. Whether he was a hikikimori doesnt matter either, the idea is that before that he had no idea he was talented or that he had potential, if he had been born somewhere else and began doing martial arts or whatever they could've normally mentioned how naturally talented he was.
Again, he did work hard but he still learned a bunch of fucking difficult ass techniques and skills in no time because he was "special"
>>135583790
I get the feeling he should have been the MC. Though i gave up not even halfway through this series.
>>135584292
My dad is huge and muscled, and was a huge bully back in highschool and top fighter of his school. (Mellowed out after army and when he met mom)
Why am I a weakling?
>>135583482
But he got so strong because of a magic power up.
>>135584362
>of his school.
Wow, that must mean he is equal to the strongest man in the entire world, right?
>>135584334
The chink manga is way ahead of the translations
Take your anger on the translators
>He's self taught? Special snowflake
>He had a really good master? Special snowflake
I'm amazed we honestly have these two in this thread right now.
>>135584156
>because he was an even bigger fag at the time
That's not true, like I said the 'somehow' was that Yuu was smart. He had the same advantage Charisma did over everyone else, which was having the brains and willingness to learn how to get stronger. 90% of the people Yuu fought didn't even try to better themselves on a daily basis. Even fat Judo guy doesn't train much, he just eats a lot and gets by on being hot shit at Judo.
He's the hard worker of Holy Land yes, but that's because he entered the land of losers. That's the entire fucking point of the whole graduating thing. People like Charisma graduate and make use of their talents to make it to the top of the world, while the other drop out fags just get minimum wage jobs and suffer. Meanwhile Yuu is chuuni and stays on the streets because despite being fully capable of getting a decent job, he enjoys that stage of life even more than his future livelihood. He lives in the 'now', which is why everyone refers to him like he's in the past in the epilogue.
>>135583345
what are you talking about there was no prophecy stating that the legendary super sayain would ever defeat freiza.
>>135583660
If we went by it to the literal degree like that then there is no protagonist who satisfies both. Working hard alone doesn't make you as strong as even the hardwork characters. There has to be some degree of you being a special snowflake.
Plus it's not like dragon bestowed anything on luffy, he just had him and dipped. I suppose Gon comes from a family lineage too then right?
Also most D's end up dead and not all of them are super strong or powerful like law's family or Saul. With all of those D's, it's more like just being a part of a certain race or group rather than being a special snowflake
>>135584286
Only cause Pirate Askeladd hasn't died yet.
>>135583866
Winrarnot talking about the dubs
>>135584177
No MC can qualify because "special snowflake" is too subjective.
>>135584447
>MCs
>>135582165
Doesn't the fact that they got so strong make them a special snowflake to begin with?
>>135584231
I don't even read ippo, but I fucking love this oxygen meme.
>>135584219
I get your point but what if you take the hours each of them spends on practicing, don't think of them as two new guys that join some club, gym or whatever and start at the same times. Think of the first 100 hours the first person trained or practiced and imagine it took him 1 year, and think of the second peroson's 100 hours that took him 3 years. The time it took them is irrelevant, but the 100 hours of practice they did, if one of them has become much more proficient and skillfull in those same 100 hours wouldn't you say he's more talented?
>>135584399
>getting angry at EGS which translates entire libraries of series
I don't think even anon can be that ungrateful.
>>135584477
Well he is in the main group
>>135584397
Point is exactly the same. Muscles don't get passed in through birth, he only gets one goddamn chromosome from a tiny bit of his sperm.
All the characters who are strong/smart/specialized in the same area as their father did not receive those skills through genes, but through education. The son of a musician is exposed to more music at an early age, so of course he'll seem "talented" at 14 compared to the son of a farmer who only sent him to music school at 12.
>>135584510
He's not even in the main group. Did you even watch the show?
Eyebrows from Teppei
>>135584431
>Who is Kurosawa
>>135582165
this nigga is just your average guy he just isn't going to die
>>135583790
dropped in first chapter cuz he isnt the MC
>>135584535
With main group I meant the title guild.
>>135584507
I'm genuinely surprised by the amount of works they have on their site. They even got a better reader than most sites
>>135584568
>DUDE I RODE A BIKE REALLY FAST ONCE NOW I CAN FIGHT EVENLY WITH GIANT ALIEN WARLORDS LMAO
The other characters in the mango constantly comment on how he's special.
>>135584231
No wonder it took mother fucking Date and Alfedo to beat him. How do you survive 3 whole turns of him not taking damage?
>>135584626
No they all comment on his amazing will to live. If theirs a will there's a way
>>135583326
>son of one of the strongest and most mysterious characters
>grandson of an admiral
>one of the 4 emperors sacrificed his arm for him
>has the rarest and strongest haki
>the most beautiful woman on earth lusts for his cock
>defeats enemies 10 times stronger and with more training just because "muh resolution, muh ambition"
He's the definitive snowflake
>>135582741
He's a good example, his growth is great. Starts as a shitty kid with a sword in a mercenery group and slowly as a soldier gets stronger and stronger, just by fighting continuosly. Also his motivations are stronger, not just "I wanna be king of pirates shit"
>>135584489
No, the fact that all the effort they did was invalidated cause "muh special one". It's the same problem when it comes to fantasy.
The hero's not great because he worked and desired to, it's because he had the sponsorship of the most powerful gods/uber lineage/null the power/all the powers.
>>135584626
Wrong, they just admire his determination
>born to be a nerd with low-tier powers
>became the most successful superhero ever through nothing but hard work and discipline
More a deuteragonist than MC, but still.
>>135584629
>How do you survive 3 whole turns of him not taking damage?
You just avoid his extremely easy to dodge swings. Shit,Woliwas able to dodge everything he threw other than tiny babby jabs the entire match.
Also Ippo winning theWolifight is proof that he's bullshit.
>>135584411
Have you ever practiced any martial art or something? Learning to kick is extremely difficult, takes months or years. Shougo had been training since he was a kid and shit, Kamishiro was weak as shit, they're noth supposed to be hard working, couple volumes later and Yuu is twice as strong as Shougo and can beat him like it ain't no thang, despite Shougo, being hard working and training since young.
>>135584503
Personally I'd still owe it up to personal motivation and determination. I've been a kid learning stuff myself, and I know what it means to "learn" something but be thinking about video games instead, and I've managed to know a couple of times what it means to be so absorbed in practice that you didn't notice hours passing by.
Our brain structure is nearly identical , so it's hard for me to believe any advantage someone could have would get past a 5% margin.
The biggest factor will always be in my opinion the time you spent and the age you were exposed to it, putting kids who started early at an advantage.
>>135583790
Man even though he's not the Mc he's a good example, even has a special snowflake older brother.
>>135584626
He's actually not special in the sense everyone in this thread is talking about though. He's just willing to be ballsy and has no fear of the consequence, no hesitation so to speak.
The only reason he becomes 'special' is because the Gantz suit gives so much fucking power that everything he lacks no longer matters. Notice how at no point was it verified that Muscle Rider can somehow punch or strike or lift significantly more than any other Gantzer.
The suit itself enhances your abilities so much and combined with the author's pension to leave everything vague, it's practically headcanon to assume muscle/fitness = moar powa in the suit.
Otherwise none of the girls would be worth shit, but Reika ends up as one of the better Gantzers, wiping out two armies across the series though the latter she ends up dying as well.
It's this very fact that allows Kurono to rival Izumi, who otherwise is his superior in every physical way. Once the suit is on, the only difference is in how you use it, not whether or not you can use it. That's why Kei is 'special', because unlike a typical nip who is raised to be restrained he's 'free'. That's one of the core themes of Gantz. Freedom and it's consequences. Osaka was the other extreme end of what Kurono was, with the team just being retarded cause they could lacking any restraint.
>>135584370
Still with family lineage.
>>135584677
Luffy
>Total snowflake
Guy who survived being born from a dead womb, crying in a pool of corpses
survived after being raped, chased by his own group, and getting chased and mauled by wolves on his own
Able to carry a sword "Too big to be considered a blade
Is somehow a normal human who can kill apocalyptic demons on a daily basis
Survived a hell pit of demons that killed everyone else in his clan...
>That guy is so realistic, not a snowflake
Please leave. I don't care if it's reddit, if it's MAL, but please fuck off where no sane person has to ever encounter you.
>>135584568
Getting powa by harnesing his boner.
Nigga are you for real?
>>135584763
Woli is the future Martinez. I don't think anyone else can do that shit except Takamura.
>>135582165
This queer
>>135582165
This guy.
>>135584560
No seriously, who is that? I'll bet you they're either A. Not an MC or B. A snowflake you just don't accept is a snowflake
>>135584946
Winners don't use drugs.
>>135584946
He was up until he got inserted with that bs thing inside him.
>>135584809
>That fucking mahjong game where it finally hit home that the only person he could truly rely on was himself
It took him a long time but goddamn was it glorious
>doesn't even give a second glance when those traitorous faggots beg for forgiveness
What an amazing arc.
>>135584718
>The hero's not great because he worked and desired to, it's because he had the sponsorship of the most powerful gods/uber lineage/null the power/all the powers.
This is very contradicting.
>Hero becomes the strongest on his own because reasons
Special snowflake who can do better than the people with lineages and good teachers
>Hero becomes the strongest because he had a real good teacher
Special snowflake because he beats the people who got good because "hard work" and the people who have powers because lineage
>Hero becomes the strongest because he was born from the strongest
Special snowflake who never had to work for anything and beats the people who worked hard both, along and under guidance, just because he was the fastest spermathozoid.
You fuckers are never happy, you never are satisfied. No matter what you will just keep searching for a something to cherrypick, twist and critizice so you can confirm your own "The MC is a special snowflake" bias.
>>135584867
Fuck, wrong picture
>>135584946
If only he didn't have that magical chi thing inside of him, and didn't have the ability to use the Black Heaven & Earth.
>you'll never get a conclusion to The Breaker
>>135584968
>Worked hard to get strong
>Strong
You're missing a key point here senpai, Ash works hard, but he isn't strong because he constantly resets himself to zero and is incapable of winning a league.
Mx0
>>135585031
I think it has to do with the rise of rampant contrarianism likely stemming from the increase of newfags over the past several years, turning everything into an argument because gotta be overly-hostile to fit in.
>>135585043
>you'll never get a conclusion to The Breaker
It's disappointing that the author is deciding to waste his time with some webtoon trash instead.
>>135582165
Kid had a real fucked up life
>>135585031
Took you long enough to figure it out.
MC becomes competent at something = talented HE JUST DIDN'T KNOW IT UNTIL AFTER HE TRAINED HARD ENOUGH
>>135585110
Yep. Basically shat all over any readers.
>take forever to finish NW because shit pacing
>WELP we're bored gonna take a break later gators!
>>135582165
>ITT: MC's that actually worked hard to get strong and wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs
Why not.
>>135583155
>son of the best cook in the world with weird-ass cooking style that always catches even the most experienced opponent by surprise
>not special snowflake
>>135585047
Also his pikachu is a special snowflake.
>>135583326
>hard work
zorro trains 25 hours a day while this nigga eats and shit and still manages to be the captain and beat the boss enemy. hardwork indeed
>>135585112
>3 different watermarks
>>135584791
Shougo was a manlet, a retard, and fucked himself up along the way a few times ranging from hanging out with other retards and picking fights instead of properly training, to almost if not doing drugs.
Yuu on the other hand, took a nearly scientific approach to everything, and repeated motions over and over like Ippo does to the point where it's all he knew. Shougo never sacrificed all his time to go out or whatever just to train in a tiny ass room repeating one fucking motion.
Like Bruce Lee says, the guy who trains 1 kick 10000 times is way scarier than the opposite. Shougo was definitely less talented than Yuu, but only because Shougo was too much of a retard and mentally weak person. Every time he went up a level, his silly pride got in his way too much while Yuu never had any to begin with.
Even an idiot can figure out who was going to be stronger when you look at what they do day after day side by side. Shougo wanted to be strong for the sake of being stronger than others. Yuu wanted to be stronger for the sake of being stronger with no thoughts given to others.
Shougo is just a classic example of how working hard but not working smart doesn't yield results. It's like how people used improper training methods they deemed 'the basics' 50 years ago, like bunny hops up stairs and shit that only hurt your back and serve no real purpose compared to other methods.
Lastly like I said earlier about the weak mentality, Shougo loses nearly all his fights due to his lack of resolve/determination. He panics and spills his spaghetti all over the place like nothing. But he never acknowledges that and always thinks it's unfair or seeks other methods instead of fixing it.
Just because they're talented don't mean they don't work hard at all.
>>135583082
Well it's hard not to be talented at something when you've been practicing it since you were fucking three, every sword he's ever used was bigger than him. And only through struggle, willpower, and a great deal of luck has he managed to survive to this point. Even his status as a being that lives outside the bounds of causality came as a result of the strength and skill he'd painstakingly built up over the course of his entire life.
>>135585036
Lineage or not, he was still beaten to near-death virtually every single day. I think that supercedes whatever lineage bonus he had.
>>135584982
>2016
>Doesn't know Strongest Man Kurosawa
You have no idea how wrong you are.
>>135585138
Is Claymore still going? Fuck.
>>135585150
Zoro trains 3 hours a day and sleeps and drinks booze the other 22 hours.
>>135585047
Being the strongest =/= not being strong
No matter how you twist it Ash is a real damn good trainer.
Top 16/8/4/4/8/??? in every region league.
Conquered the Battle Frontier.
He was the only trainer is all of Sinnoh capable of beating a Darkrai who swept the entire region on it's on and as a bonus he beat a Latios that literally NO ONE knew existed.
He consistently produces high-quality results. He's strong. And this i without bringing in all the crap he pulls in the movies.
If you ha a point towards Ash being a special snowflake you have The Aura which is a sign of the Specialest Snowflake you can possibly be thanks to Lucario-sama the greatest most amazing Pokemon ever.
>>135584431
>If we went by it to the literal degree like that then there is no protagonist who satisfies both. Working hard alone doesn't make you as strong as even the hardwork characters. There has to be some degree of you being a special snowflake.
Read more than 5 manga
>>135585245
If you talented you see how to need learn. If you are not, this is only hard work and try and mistake.
>>135585300
It ended months ago. Maybe even a year ago now. I really don't remember.
>>135585308
at least zorro trains. when did we ever see luffy in training except for the 2 year timeskip.
>>135585245
>MC's that actually worked hard to get strong
>AND wasn't some special snowflake
>AND didn't had family lineage bs
If someone works hard it doesn't mean he isn't a special snowflake either. It isn't exclusive.
>>135584809
Finally someone gets it.
>>135584968
>Has the strongest legendary busting Pikachu
>>135585061
>Literally Tou-Man's ancestor aka born under a lucky star
Dragon/Illusion Breaker is just Kuzumi melding Mx0 with his body and passing it onto his kids. Dragon comes from Lucy becauseManDRAKE.
>>135585325
>16/8/4/4/8/
This is why it's hard to judge Ash, though. He constantly changes in between seasons. He goes from being competent in Sinnoh to a bumbling dumbfuck in Unova (And he was such a kid)
Sure he beat Darkrai and Latios, but then his Pikachu that he's had for a long time gets stomped by a fucking fresh-out-the-lab Snivy. He isn't a consistent character.
>>135585358
> I can't tell the MC from my obscure as fuck manga no one likes is a special snowflake.
No one cares about the 800+ garbage series you read. Post an example or fuck off
>>135585047
>I've only ever watched the OS and BW
He's not incapable of winning the league because he's unskilled (51 gym badges, 2 championships, 7 frontier symbols, 16 tournament wins) he's incapable of winning the league because the writers literally don't want him to. At his best they wrote in a character with a team of legends to get him out of the league. All the more reason why he's a shinning example of working hard to get strong instead of just being there for plot convenience.
>>135584378
?
He failed to become the Invisible; and he only got strong because he spent all of his free time on a mountain digging holes.
If you're talking about his final fight with the Crow Knight, they both got a power up at the same time, and that match was just for fun.
>>135583866
This, if MC wasn't talented snowflake then the series would have ended mid way.
>>135583187
He was literally granted this power by some mysterious force.
Did anyone notice the foreshadowing in ONES version, after the MA arc, he goes up to the sensor and it detects monsters and we're supposed to assume "lol the monsters with him are causing him problems", truth is we still don't know for sure it wasn't going off because of him.
>>135585436
>strongest legendary busting pikachu
>Mega lucario almost murders it.
At best you'll have a character who works hard and doesn't come from a special family lineage.
Hell even someone who comes from a family lineage but has to work hard anyway may be good enough.
But you're never going to find someone who works hard, doesn't come from a family lineage, AND isn't a special snowflake. Part of being an MC pretty much is standing out in someway from the rest of the cast.
>>135585283
Hanayama was obliterated back and forth through the main story AND his spin-on, didn't help him none. The whole "Hanma blood" and it being activated or not was a big deal in the series.
If anything, out of all the Hanmas, Jack was the one who accomplished the most without falling back on the lineage.
>>135585325
>He was the only trainer is all of Sinnoh capable of beating a Darkrai who swept the entire region on it's on and as a bonus he beat a Latios that literally NO ONE knew existed.
What was Cynthia not part of Sinnoh? She shat on Tobias.
>>135585458
>51 gym badges
that is the lowest key tier for any trainer
>>135585526
> He litterally got his powers through my theory and headcanon.
Don't make fact out of speculation please.
>>135583593
Shut your whore mouth
>>135585437
>He isn't a consistent character.
Unova is the only place where you can say Ash has been inconsistent.
From Gen 1 to Gen 2 to Gen 3 to Gen 4 you could see him grown and become more and more competent. And even now in Gen 6 Ash is super alpha as fuck gives no fuck Serena and Citron cum themselves whenever Ash does something cool.
Gen 5 is a total fuck-up and everyone should just pretend that season does not exist. Gen 6 has been the natural progression from Gen 4 Ash.
>>135585563
Cynthia is Gamefreak's Lightning, though.
>>135585528
>Lucario
That fucker doesn't count, he's the 2nd mascot aka genius rival of Pikachu. Just wait 20 years from now when Pokemon anime reaches the finale, Pikachu will beat Lucario with 1 hp left over.
>>135584050
>AHUEHUEHUEHUEHUEHUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHEUHUE I HAVE THE POWER OF EVERY SINGLE CLASSES AND RACE AHUEHUEHEUHUEHUEHUE
>Not a special snowflake
Pic related, it is you
>>135585575
>that is the lowest key tier for any trainer
That's more gym badges than you can earn by playing every generation anon.
>>135584152
Too bad i can't read the LN.
>>135585510
>wasn't some special snowflake or had family lineage bs
No.
>>135585510
literally a god
>>135585536
>AND isn't a special snowflake.
Can you define what being a special snowflake entails?
I mean "doesn't work hard" , "doesn't get power up" and "doesn't have a lineage" are easy to understand. What exactly are the physical requirements for him to not be a special snowflake?
>>135585563
>>135585592
Aren't you confusing Tobias with Paul?
Also, Cynthia's the fucking chamption. She has every right to be a special snowflake because she makes the damn rules.
>>135585614
>when Pokemon anime reaches the finale, Pikachu will beat Lucario with 1 hp left over.
Jokes on you, that already happened in the mess that was Unova.
>>135585593
I wonder if she can beat Red or Gold. That Nigger Chomp of hers seems invincible.
>>135585485
I meant he got his power up from dog knights wish, which transferred his power into him.
>>135585675
Meant to quote >>135585593
>>135585675
Tobias is the guy with Darkrai right? Cause Darkrai fag lost to Cynthia's Garchomp after slaughtering Ash and winning the league.
>>135582165
Wrong place, wrong time.
>>135583757
>90% true, the last 10% is the saiyan hack that if they recover after close to dead thats a free boost
This always bothered me. Couldn't they have become a virtually invincible race by setting up near-death camps? You know, just wound them to a point where they almost die, let them recover, then repeat it ad infinitum.
>>135585047
That last bit is less because of skill and more because writers just don't want him to win.
Sinnoh had the writers toss a nigga with legendaries at him and even then Ash managed to take one out.
>>135585705
>Cause Darkrai fag lost to Cynthia's Garchomp after slaughtering Ash and winning the league.
[citation needed]
>>135585675
>that already happened in the mess that was Unova.
Oh, does this mean Mega Lucario is like Edgy Sasuke mode?
>>135585674
I'm not the OP so don't know what he meant by it.
It seems everyone has been interpreting it in their own way, I've got it as standing out from the majority of the people either through skill or ideology.
I think doesn't get a power up is a better way of weeding out the fakes.
>>135585719
Chosen by Satan to save the world.
>>135585592
>Gen 5 is a total fuck-up and everyone should just pretend that season does not exist.
That was BW right? Just what the fuck happened in that season of the anime?
WASSUP FAGETS
>>135585728
maybe is something temporal? like when you get invincible on some games after a revive
>Allen Walker
Literally loses every fight he's in with the Noahs. Fuck the whole Order are complete jobbers.
>>135585706
But Tatsuya was the naturally gifted brother. The reason Kazuya went so hard was because he knew Tatsuya would catch up if he ever gave a shit. He literally became a better pitcher than someone who had been pitching his whole life in less than two years.
>>135585758
Mega Lucario is a normal Mega Evolution. Korrina's Lucario, something that happened in Kalos, went full edgy mode for reasons I don't remember at the moment. Something about his bond with Korrina not being strong enough or something like that.
Unova's Lucario, the one who beat Ash at the end of the league, was owned by this retard Ash befriended who though you needed 7 badges to join the league, that the Unova league happened in Johto and that for Ash match he thought you had to bring 5 Pokemon instead of 6.
The cherry on top was that the Riolu the retard owned evolved mid-match vs Pikachu and beat him that way. And the cream on top of the cherry was that Riolu into Lucario was not even retard last Pokemon.
>>135585798
Shitty staff that thankfully got kicked out for Gen 6. I think they tried to do a "reset" just like the Gen 5 games kinda did but took it way too far.
>>135585728
Alwasys assumed it would fail if the Saiyan didn't honestly believe he would die if he didn't push his abilities further, in a "natural" encounter", but fairly sure the series disproved that notion.
>>135585863
Except Lenalee. I feel like she won every fight she's been in, and it's usually against the new big akuma threat.
>>135585862
I don't know the exact wording that Vegeta gave on Namek, but that is the only logical explanation outside of bad writing
>>135582165
He actually had to study to become Boss of Japan
>>135585746
Oh wait you're right, she stomped Lucien not Tobias. Still it's strange how there's no word of Tobias' progress challenging the E4/Champions.
>>135583716
>He only became strong because he trained nonstop
>He is of a WARRIOR ALIEN RACE that is objectively stronger than average human
>And they become stronger the more they are pushed
>And he has this drug that heal him 100% everytime
Yeah, sure is working hard here
Do you have brain problem?
>>135585863
Being a loser doesn't have anything to do with being a special snowflake, which he is.
>>135584231
>Can manipulate the air around him to make jet engine sounds when using the Dempsey roll for dramatic effect
>>135585863
>The theme of the manga is literally THE CHOSEN ONE
>No special snowflake
Que?
>>135584827
That margin is extremely small in my opinion, you're making it sound like talent or natural born geniuses aren't a real thing, also take into account that that margin changes drastically depending on the activity, in terms of sports, physical structure, like being tall, short, heavy, skinny become important factors as well.
>>135585774
Yeah but Satan started him out at level one; all his friends became bosses and shit.
>>135585774
8/10
>>135585447
>every manga I don't read is obscure
>>135586123
Can Tokyo ghoul fags get any more retarded?
![jimg006[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/Mclxqc9.jpg "jimg006[1].jpg")
>>135585971
>Tobias
>>135586057
Don't forget about early age nutrition and health, which you know as a toddler and child you obviously have little control over.
>>135585526
Nah, it was the tooth. Just like how Boros was limited by his armor, Saitama's bad tooth was holding him back.
>>135585971
Why would there be? He was an one-shot asspull to stop Ash from winning the league.
That's pretty much the entire point of Ironfist Chinmi.
>>135586081
Still haven't beaten this game. Can't get past fucking Dante.
Hell.
Let's do something more fun.
Instead of whining because no matter what or who the MC will be considered a special snowflake. Let's list who's the most special snowflakes of them all.
Hard mode : No Naruto
Dante must die mode: No Onii-sama
>>135586213
So we can see how the world beyond Ash progresses, whether or not a guy like Tobias can legendary his way to champion or if the champions just shit all over him with SKILL.
This is just me, but the way I see it if Ash ever got to the point where he's in his 20s/30s and became champion, Pikachu would be in the same position Cynthia's Darkrai is. An unstoppable nightmare.
>>135585230
Most of what you mentioned about Shougo happened way after Yuu had already fucked him over, not once but twice. Shougo did repetitions and training a fuckload just like Yuu, there's a reason he was considered so good at Karate, he had been practicing it since he was young because of his father. You're just mentioning shit like pride, being mentally weak and all that shit when that's all bullshit, Yuu was a retarded mess himself, emotionally unstable and whatnot. Just because they don't show Shougo in his dojo training 24/7 doesn't mean he didn't do it. Honestly don't understand were you're getting the idea that Shougo was dumb and trained the wrong way.
>no special family lineage
>no training from one of the best trainers in the world
>no prophecy,chosen one,etc
>no super rare power that he just happened to possess
>not especially talented
>if working with familiars/weapons tied to him, the same applies to them
Y/N
>>135582289
This guy has the power of autism though.
5000 punches everyday is insane, 99.9% of the world wouldnt have that amount of resolve.
And the fact he only trained one type of punch makes it even worse.
Also the reason he wins his fights isn't cause he's special or anything, it's cause the other guys are just amateurs and he's ready to do anything to win ( remember how he couldnt win against that boxer guy so he kicked him in the face )
>>135586248
Casual. I bet you don't even use de/buffs.
>>135584334
New chapter came out. Pretty good.
>>135586300
>Joestar lineage
>Not a special snowflake one
>>135586300
>stands
>no super rare power that he just happened to possess
Are you fucking serious?
>>135586348
The pic isn't related,I just fucked up.
>>135585909
>Unova's Lucario, the one who beat Ash at the end of the league, was owned by this retard Ash befriended who though you needed 7 badges to join the league, that the Unova league happened in Johto and that for Ash match he thought you had to bring 5 Pokemon instead of 6.
>The cherry on top was that the Riolu the retard owned evolved mid-match vs Pikachu and beat him that way. And the cream on top of the cherry was that Riolu into Lucario was not even retard last Pokemon.
This all sounds like a horrible clusterfuck and I can't see anyone being happy with that outcome.
>>135586283
That was easy
>>135586326
N-no, I don't.
>>135586390
I lost count of how many people he's supposed to be related to
>>135586283
Too easy senpai
