Previous thread: >>3182268
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
>>3194473
kya i want to play games in your creepy wood paneled dungeon
>>3194475
I don't have a PVM so yeah. Thanks for the tip anyway.
No my main concern is getting Retroarch Wii to not fuck up with the core configs. I swear, Retroarch Wii is so shitty I should just use dedicated emulators instead. And yeah I'm running 480p so I'll give that a shot.
>>3194473
remove a few items and make it grainy and that looks period correct as a mofo. also grime as fuck, I like it.
>>3194473
It kinda looks like x is fucking him desu
I wish I was lucky enough to stumble upon a free pvm like you assholes.
>>3194503
Looks like a Micro-oven/
>>3194479
It looks like the kind of place you'd have bought a CRT at an estate sale in the 90s. It'll actually start being fashionable again soon IF the carpet gets changed and a LOT more light gets in there
>>3194516
Not sure about the 12v, but the VCR still works beautifully.
>>3194503
that looks rad as fuck
>>3194520
Does it have a "DC in" jack?
>>3194534
Not him but no, it doesn't
Which CRT has the best scanlines?
>>3194735
that is a very big question. All results will be Sony PVM
>>3194735
20"+
apeture grill>shadowmask
higher tvl=thicker scanlines
scanlines are a meme.
Sony's patented aperture grille displays are more bright than CRTS offered by competing companies.
Does they mean they have worse black levels than shadow mask designs?
What about glare? Does aperture grille have more or less glare?
>>3194479
Creepy is a word used by women to describe a man that is lacking sex appeal.
The word you're looking for is spooky.
I have been using a CRT TV as a display for my emulation computer for a few months now.
Suddenly the TV makes loud humming noises and does not stop unless I mute the TV or disconnect the audio cable from the computer.
What causes this and how do i fix it?
>>3194735
Multisync monitors usually have very thick scanlines being able to also do higher resolutions. My nec has very thick ones.
>>it's a ground loop or short, i'd try a different cable first
>>3194848
Black levels are the same. Glare is the same although Sony has proven to have some of the best anti-glare coatings. Flat screen CRTs offer a surface more able to avoid reflection at the cost of corner geometry and weight.
The somewhat lower precision of shadow mask is seen by some as "softer" which isn't particularly something you want when looking at pixel art. One negative worth mentioning about aperture grille is that it does have somewhat visible fine vertical wires in the tube to strengthen the grille. Most people easily ignore them but there's probably some autist out there that can't stand them.
>>3194852
Is it?
How come some older tubes are more grayish when turned off and the newer ones?
>>3194873
*than the newer ones
>>3194873
It's the coating
>>3194735
If by "best" you mean "thickest", the sharpest CRT suitable for retro vidya is the Sony BVM 20E1U or it's regional cousins. That's 1000 TVL on a 4:3, 20" tube. There was an even finer aperture grill CRT manufactured, but it was only used on one late model of computer monitor and I don't remember the details.
The best scanlines are the ones on the game you're playing, anon.
yeah buddy
>>3194765
>higher tvl=thicker scanlines
Is that true? Why would the horizontal resolution affect the vertical thickness of scanlines?
>>3195005
No one said it was a PVM
but yes panasonic professional video monitors exist
>>3194871
No seriously when a male says creepy instead of spooky it sounds just like if he says あたし instead of わたし.
I think if we're going to be retro game enthusiasts we should adopt retro gender norms and not modern SJW rubbish.
>>3194873
I remember reading about this on Wikipedia. Here:
"Another change that was widely introduced in the early 1970s was the use of a black material in the spaces around the inside of the phosphor pattern. This paint absorbed ambient light coming from the room, lowering the amount that was reflected back to the viewer. In order to make this work effectively, the phosphor dots were reduced in size, lowering their brightness. However, the improved contrast compared to ambient conditions allowed the faceplate to be made much more clear, allowing more light from the phosphor to reach the viewer and the actual brightness to increase.[17] Grey-tinted faceplates dimmed the image, but provided better contrast, because ambient light was attenuated before it reached the phosphors, and a second time as it returned to the viewer. Light from the phosphors was attenuated only once. This method changed over time, with TV tubes growing progressively more black over time."
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Shadow_mask
>>3194547
PAL a shit.
>>3194849
Well i can hook the RPI on the monitor then, so i can make an monitor exclusive for gaming.
>>3195014
Or maybe you should stop letting a fringe culture you obviously hate define your vocabulary.
No seriously.
>>3195014
You're a huge faggot
>>3194992
240 resolution on 480 tvl=every other line scanned
240 resolution on 900 tvl=2 lines scanned 2 skipped. is how i believe it works. the more lines skipped the thicker the blank area or "scanline"
>>3195005
>stain
Yes, from some type of chemical I believe. There's also paint there as well. The entire attic could use a considerable amount of work, but is probably the last place that'll ever see it unless I do it myself.
>>3194510
Agree completely. Especially on the light, that photo was taken with flash even. Only light in there is from a single incandescent bulb of maybe 60W or so.
>>3194479
mite b cool
Need to get better seating up there; As it stands, I've got the choice of the floor or a desk chair. A nice comfy chair or couch would be great.
>>3194490
If I get around to moving the Wii up there tonight, I'll see if I can come up with decent settings for 480p. Main issue will be matching it up to a Game Boy Interface baseline.
That's honestly why I don't use RA for anything unless I have to; I'm considering seeing if I can get it set up to have several different versions of it configured ONLY for 1 system each. No idea how well that'll work though.
>>3194992
Higher TVL sets tend to have guns capable of focusing better on a given spot of the screen so as to actually make use of the finer aperture/dot pitch. This applies to both the horizontal and vertical axis, so when you're already doubling up fields to only use a smaller portion of the screen (240p) there tends to be a larger gap between video lines(what scan line actually/originally refers to, the video portion rather than the gap).
For example, the FW900 when displaying 240p@120hz has stupidly large gaps.
I drove past two smaller CRT's by a house today and stopped by to check them out. One was a shitty small TV with RF only, but the other was an Amiga Monitor (The same model as pictured). I might have taken if not for the fact that it's been raining literally every day for the last week. Just wondering if I missed out on anything, would this have been worth having for /vr/? Was there any feasible way to fix it? Would I have even been able to hook up say a VGA->Component adapter and use it like that?
>>3195449
Well, most of the monitors from this era have digital RGB inputs, which are about useless for retro vidya/general use, unless you're into the 80's/early 90's computer scene.
It would be a top fucking notch composite/S-Video monitor though. You'd need an adapter for S-video.
If it's just rained, there may be hope. Dry it the fuck out and see if it works.
>>3195421
>No idea how well that'll work though.
The issue here would be changing the folder paths for each of the versions, since Retroarch makes it's own folder in your SD card.
Anyway, I need to get around and see what Wii emulators are the best for each system.
>>3195461
amiga was analog RGB.
>>3195461
As that one shows, it has a switch for going between analog and digital RGB.
You'd need the exact model number to know exactly what it supports, but the Commodore/Amiga monitors of the 80s can be quite nice.
If it actually was a 1080, it definitely supports both digital and analog, as well as S-Video.
Even if it did get rained on, so long as it wasn't holding a charge and/or had power running through it, it's possible that it could still be salvageable.
http://gona.mactar.hu/Commodore/monitor/Commodore_monitors_by_model_number.html
>>3195487
I'm aware. Likely be more of a hassle than it'd be worth.
For Genesis/SMS/SCD/GG, Genesis Plus GX is as good as it gets. Using the RA core for it is just adding another hurdle to just playing the games.
>>3195497
Thanks.
After fiddling around with the setting a bit I got Retroarch's main config to be the one I use for GBA games, somehow. I'm not going to fix that for now and just use Retroarch for GBA.
What do I use for Snes? I noticed Retroarch has a new core that's apparently made for lighter machines like RP.
>>3195421
>For example, the FW900 when displaying 240p@120hz has stupidly large gaps.
indeed
My BKM-10R arrived last week so I can finally control my monitor. Guts pic, nothing really special. Sony loves them H8's. Also, to prevent the ferrite from bouncing around, they used that nasty foam that degrades instantly rather than just tying it down.
>>3195510
And now I can get RGB in, and adjust geometry. The BVM has a zillion soft convergence adjustments, and it's a good thing because with scanlines so sharp you could cut yourself, it really matters.
>you will never be this chill
also sorry about the moire
>>3195502
I've got SNES9x GX for SNES, but haven't used it in forever. I've heard of complaints about it pertaining to input lag, but can't say anything on it personally
>>3195536
Gleylancer
nothing like a qt retro waifu to get replies desu
>>3194503
That monitor looks like a microwave. I love it.
>>3195578
Very vaporwave
>>3195504
that is ridiculously sharp
does it look "too sharp" in person?
>>3195030
Your post a shit
Don't get this rubbish started again. Let's stick to discussing physical hardware m'kay?
>>3195504
>>3195687
it does, but at least brightness is right, unlike scanlines filters.
>>3195395
Errr, TVL is horizontal, and the 240 in 240p refers to vertical resolution. The scanlines are thicker on a high-TVL tube because the individual phosphors are smaller and better defined. They light up nice and bright, but don't smear into their neighbours or neighbouring black space as much. That increased definition means thicker black lines between the signal lines.
>>3195736
How far from the monitor are you?
Does it seem any less noticeable when you're further from the screen?
>no brightness loss
well yeah because it isn't drawing black lines on top
>>3195925
about 50-60 cm for that pic. I guess getting a bit further would work a bit better however image is still ultra sharp
>>3195771
>>3194765
When I turn on my CRT, and the image comes into display, at first it appears very bright and kind of gray tinted as if my settings were wrong. However, after a few seconds the image slowly returns to its normal self. It's almost like if you had a Polaroid photo and watched it develop, it's kind of Milky at first and then it turns into the photo you want. Is there something wrong with my set?
>>3195983
That's pretty normal tbqh so long as it only takes a few seconds.
Has it had regular use or recently come out of storage?
>>3195993
Yeah it only happens for the first few seconds. I just picked it up at Goodwill, it's a 2004 machine, but I have no idea how often it was used. Goodwill was running their Yule Log loop on it in the store.
>>3195965
well, i missed that. But it doesn't change the explanation, and the post i was referring to is still bunk. The TVL doesn't match up to pixels/dots/lines in the image, and it's not meant to. Otherwise position and sizing controls would step in increments even with dials. In fact, the whole system is analogue.
>>3195995
Its fine its just where it degausses every time you turn it on.
The moire is always on the right and I don't know why.
>>3196707
Nice pr0n game, dude
>>3196712
I think you meant ENLIGHTENED CHINESE CARTOON SHOOTER
Does anyone here have experience with Panasonic Tau flat CRT TVs?
How do they compare with Sony WEGAs?
>>3195504
A 17-inch 1280x1024 monitor is probably better for this since the dot pitch isn't as small.
Dell e771p at 480p with inserted black lines and maxed color intensity, with a small amount of added signal blur.
>>3196787
What will you give me for an Apples to Apples comparison?
Hey there /crt/
I'm trying to hook up a PC to my CRT.
I bought an UMSA (pic related) but it evidently isn't as easy to use as I had hoped.
ArcadeForge themselves suggests using "Soft15Khz" which is a Windows program, so what do I do if I'm using Ubuntu?
I guess what I'm getting at here is this:
I understand I need a 15Khz signal coming out of my laptop, is this possible with a ThinkPad T500 running Ubuntu? How can I do this?
>>3197040
That's a cute little thing. Someone here might be able to help you but you should probably also ask on /g/. We don't use Linux as much as they do because the emulators are better on Windows and frontends are neater. Theoretically you should just be able to manually set your refresh rates though if I understand correctly.
I was walking through a Savers and found a flat-screen Sony Trinitron from 2001. 16-18 inches, 16 bucks, so I brought it home. Heard that Trinitrons are pretty good for games, or is it something that everybody says that actually isn't true?
I have a Sony PVM 14M4U. It's got RGB on the back, and next to those three plugs I've got "EXT SYNC". I'm assuming this means CSYNC, is that right? Does this mean that I absolutely have to use the EXT SYNC with RGB, or can I do sync-on-green, or sync-on-luma, or something?
I'm asking, because I would like to get a cable for PS1, and was looking at this: http://www.ebay.com/itm/201402911327?rmvSB=true . It has sync on luma. Do I need to strip sync into CSYNC (as in: do I need a sync-stripper?), or can I just use a cable like this: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-pvm/sony-pvm-scart-converter-bnc ?
I'm new at this, and would love some help/advice. My ultimate goal is RGB from SNES, Saturn and PS1 (at least to start). I have the audio worked out, but need help with the RGB.
>>3197040
Linux is pretty easy if you're comfortable with the command line. Unlike Windows, it'll work with basically any video card. I've tested with my Thinkpad W540. First, generate a modeline, with e.g. lrmc or cvt:
lrmc 1280 240 59.94 -ntsc
Modeline "1280x240x60.05" 24.293698 1280 1312 1424 1544 240 245 248 262 -HSync -VSync
Then, you use xrandr to add the mode, attach it to a port, and turn it on.
xrandr --newmode "1280x240x60.05" 24.293698 1280 1312 1424 1544 240 245 248 262 -HSync -VSync
xrandr --addmode VGA1 "1280x240x60.05"
and finally enable the output
xrandr --output VGA1 --mode "1280x240x60.05"
If this is unclear, use Google, there's plenty more information.
>>3197105
Fantastic thank you! I've been reading some posts in ubuntu forums that seem to be doing very similar things. I may be using Ubuntu but I will be honest it is because I am cheap not clever.
In any case I think I understand what's being done here and the command line isn't too discomforting.
If you wouldn't mind though could you please help me to understand the 15khz part?, for example, should I use a command like this:
lrmc 1280 240 15 -ntsc
Or am I overthinking/misunderstanding?
>>3197084
You can actually just use a shit common American PS2 component video cable on a PS1 or 2 plugged directly into the RGBS ports via RCA to BNC adapters. Switch the PS2 into RGB (not even an option not to be on a PS1) and it should work. So far I haven't encountered an PVM that can't take composite as sync
>>3197129
You can copy and paste the example Modeline I generated with lrmc for starters in that post. The -ntsc flag tells it to generate a 15.734kHz mode. The other parameters are width, height, framerate. There are also other online modeline generators you could use too. I should probably write an actual document at some point.
side note: you can double check the horizontal frequency in the mode line by dividing the clock rate by the clocks per line. e.g. for the example, 24.293698 MHz / 1544 = 0.015734 MHz = 15.734 kHz.
>>3197143
I tried the component cables on the PS2 (PS2->Component Cables->RCA/BNC Adapter). I can leave it in component mode and PS2 and PS1 games work just fine. When I put the PS2 into RGB mode the screen says NO SYNC and everything goes nuts. I've tried fucking around with the monitor's buttons ("LINE / RGB" and "EXT SYNC"). When it is displaying correctly the screen shows "COMPONENT" in the corner for a minute.
When I tried on my PS1 (same cable chain), I get color, and the audio works fine, but the sync is still all messed up. Again, I tried fucking around with the buttons to no avail. From what I'd read online, I didn't think the PS2 component cables worked with the PS1. I'm using Sony's official PS3 component cable. Am I missing something simple, or do I need to go the SCART route I asked about above?
(Thanks for the help, by the way.)
>>3197156
I really appreciate the help, if you were to write a doc I'm sure it'd be greatly useful.
That said, I feel like I must still be missing something. Could I be having problems because the SCART is running from the UMSA into a SCART to Y-U-V box?
My Audio is coming through loud and clear through the UMSA but my TV simply displays nothing, using the modeline you provided.
>>3197180
Oh shit! I've got a picture! I simply had to apply the new modeline a second time to get it to stick, it is however coming out quite orangey...
How do modelines work on Wayland?
>>3197182
So we've moved way forwards here! Pic related.
I have some more questions though, the image is considerably more orange in hue than it is on my laptop's LCD - is this expected? What's the best way to adjust the color? I'd prefer not to do it on the TV because my consoles look perfect as they are
Also hopefully you can see things are looking a little bit "squished" horizontally (especially looking at the mouse) - is this expected?
Just want to be sure that I've got this right.
>>3197172
The PS1 and the PS2 in RGB mode output RGB signals without any sync. When the PS2 is in progressive scan/480p mode it outputs the sync on the green signal. I don't know whether your monitor supports 480p mode, you can check its user manual.
Many monitors can sync with composite video or luma while others can sync with composite sync only. If your monitor can only sync with composite sync you'll need a sync stripper or tap composite sync from the board.
In any case you need a cable that carries both the color signals and the sync information. The regular component cables only carry the color signals so they don't work. If you find a cable that in addition to carrying component it also carries composite or s-video you can connect either composite or luma to the ext sync terminal and it should work. If you have an older PS1 with the RCA outputs on the back you can just get sync from the yellow jack.
Otherwise you can wire your own cables or buy pre-made. Almost all pre-made cables use console connector-SCART and SCART-BNC breakout.
>>3197143
So... those have 4 lines for video? I've never seen one that did. But i've never really looked either. I do know the original Xbox component cables had a switch that meant you could have either Composite vid or Component, but not both.
>>3197084
You need some form of sync, but that PVM isn't picky about where it comes from. If the PVM is set to RGB mode, it will *not* take sync from the luma or composite video ports. However, there's nothing stopping you using either composite video or luma for the sync signal. Just plug one of those into the EXT SYNC spot, and make sure the sync button on the front face is set to external.
>>3197205
Gotcha. So the component cable worked with progressive scan (so I must have sync on green on my monitor), but RGB is a no go with that cable.
I want to use SNES, Saturn and PS1. SNES and Saturn support CSYNC, but PS1 is SYNC on Luma only. I can buy RGB SCART cables with CSYNC for the SNES and Saturn and use a SCART to BNC adaptor and have no problems. To use the same SCART to BNC adaptor with the PS1 cable, I'll either need a sync-stripper, or a cable like this one: https://www.retrogamingcables.co.uk/sony-playstation/sony-playstation-1-2-ps1-ps2-rgb-scart-cable-lead with the optional CSYNC mod. Is all of the correct?
I'm US and my gear is NTSC. SCART is the connector standard, but is not tied to PAL or NTSC, correct? In other words, I don't need to worry about a cable's country of origin (so long as it is EUROSCART, not JP21). Is that right?
And last: where's a decent place for cables? Retro Gaming Cables seems good, but I'm US and shipping's not cheap. Retro-Console-Accessories seems good on Ebay. Any experience/input?
Thanks again for your awesome help!
![100895[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/QmUeECO.jpg "100895[1].png")
>>3197250
They have the three lines for component plus a yellow composite like this one. These cables will often also have multiple inputs as well. Just make a habit of grabbing them whenever you see them at thrift stores.
>>3197254
>So the component cable worked with progressive scan
I don't think the PVM-14M4U supports progressive scan. I think it worked in component mode because in that case the sync comes in the same cable as the luma signal (which is usually a green connector)
I don't know much about pre-made cables because I wired my own and my PVM can sync from composite video so I just connect the composite signal to sync.
Yes, SCART is a french standard that handles audio, video, and some automatic selection of features (like RGB mode, widescreen mode, bidirectional signals to interface with set-top boxes). Usually pre-made cables disregard most of it and just carry the colors, sync (with stripper or not, though a cable with a sync stripper may not work with an actual SCART tv), and select RGB, in case they are actually connected to a SCART connector in an european TV. They also have the proper termination for each console, some need capacitors, others resistors, etc.
If you wish to wire your own I used the info in this website:
http://members.optusnet.com.au/eviltim/gamescart/gamescart.htm
I used the pinouts and required capacitors/resistors and ignored the SCART connector.
>>3197197
Not sure about the color, laptop screens generally have a rather cold color temperature. It could be one of the converters you have in between?
You can apply color correction in Linux, though I'd suggest you first try out an emulator or two and see how they look.
The squished screen is intentional - the resolution of 1280x240 is "ultrawide", and your emulator will need to compensate (retroarch can, for example). You can find information about this around the internet - it's identical to the situation with CRT Emudriver.
The reason for it is that most computer VGA outputs have a minimum clock frequency, which implies a minimum resolution. Because 240p is quite low, you need to crank it up horizontally to make it work. 720 wide is probably the minimum. One nice thing about the high resolution is it gets you nice scaling for various systems that have nonsquare pixels.
Quick question gents. Do you think this HD CRT is worth saving from being donated to the local food bank? Samsung TX-T2793Hu
I meant TX-T2793H. No u.
>>3197385
>>3194473
ugh, why you got your tvs on the floor B, what if your house get flooded. Do you sit on the floor ? Don't you like having the screens vis-a-vis you face ?
Weird setup B
>>3197391
It's his attic let's hope his attic doesn't flood
>>3197378
Ah, okay, I'll need to keep reading up on this, although what you're saying makes perfect sense.
Although emulators are certainly on the table for the near future a main goal is to watch videos, specifically movies and such, fullscreening with VLC as this setup is, well, definitely doesn't look right.
Any tips to this effect? Can I tweak VLC to "compensate"?
>>3195005
he didn't say it was a PVM. He said he wished he could get a free PVM.
>>3194503
If you can come to me in northeast indiana I have a 20" PVM-1944Q I don't think I really need. :\
pictured: panasonic bt-h1390yn
>>3197453
Just so no one else bothers with this - I figured it out.
Just needed to alter VLC's monitor pixel ratio value.
Thanks for all the help I got in this thread though, you guys are truly masters of your craft.
>>3197495
Cool. Bonus command if you hit some app that can't handle custom aspect ratios:
xrandr --output VGA1 --scale-from 320x240
which basically makes a 320x240 desktop but scales it up to the output res. Of course, it's not as good as setting your app's pixel aspect ratio.
Got this old Panasonic CRT working after soldering on an IEC outlet to it. Works, convergence is a bit off but that should be easy enough to fix. Does have some issues where the image is mildly warped in the center, but not really something you can see on static images and barely at all when playing games.
Doing back and forth tests with the NES I have here and my PC going through a VSC 150, it's obviously much clearer and nicer from the NES directly. Are all downscalers gonna have some amount of filtering on them that keeps them from being pixel perfect. I've tried dozens of different graphic settings on the PC and VSC, but nothing seems to get rid of the minor wiggle the image has along with everything just looking blurrier, no matter if it's a game or video or whatever. Have I just not found the right settings yet?
>>3197391
>crt's on the floor ermahgherd
If it was a basement and it floods, the TVs will probably be alright if you let them dry out really well. I'd not touch them for a few days though.
Pictured: all of my collection besides the PVM-1944Q.
>>3197507
Oh, and the Toshiba 27A42 isn't in that pic either. It's over to the left.
>>3197505
Whoops, image got eaten.
>>3197520
That monitor looks really cute. Can I get more pics? :D
The back, too, maybe.
>>3197505
I am not familiar with the VSC 150, but there are basically two things you want:
a) 1:1 vertical resolution scaling, e.g. 1 scanline to 1 scanline. You'll need some sort of integer scaling option in your emulator for this, where it centers the image and draws black on the top and bottom.
b) Horizontal, assuming you are 640+ wide, has a few options. Bilinear will be very blurry but smooth. Nearest will probably have some shimmering effects scrolling unless you have a very high resolution. The 'Pixelate' shader in Retroarch is a good fix, it will blur less than bilinear but won't shimmer. I've seen this scaler go by many other names, but it's basically a box filter 1 display pixel wide.
>>3197505
I know nothing of scalers.
Do all inputs show this 'wiggle'?
Can you get a better pic so I can see what you mean by 'wiggle'?
>>3197572
Settings might matter - depends which settings you are talking about on both ends and what needs to be accomplished.
Leon is depressed. Leon wants a new job but lacks the skills for the information age, poor Leon.
>>3197528
this is the mitsu console, tube seems worn or in need of adjustment.>>3193403
>>3197598
Looks okay to me but I don't actually know how it's supposed to look. I only own two PSX games - Parasite Eve and FFV.
>>3197538
What the pixellate filter actually does is to interpolate (bilinear-style) horizontally while maintaining nearest-neighbor scaling vertically.
So you might find a scaler called something else with the same effect. Blargg's NTSC filter does this, too, so if you can set it to the 'RGB' mode that filter is a good substitute if you only plan to scale to 2x.
Out of curiosity, for a small project I'm considering taking on are there SCART Y-Splitters?
Not a switch (google sure likes to mix these up as I can only find switches when I google splitters).
What I'd want to do is plug one device (or a switch) into two different displays.
>>3197657
No, it's a two dimensional filter:
https://github.com/libretro/common-shaders/blob/master/retro/shaders/pixellate.cg
Though if you are vertically 1:1 it becomes a 1D filter. It looks very different from bilinear - it treats the input as steps rather than discrete points and uses a window size scaled by the output rather than the input.
>>3197391
see
>>3195421
Current choices are either desk chair or floor. Planning on getting a small couch or comfy chair soon.
>>3197713
I'm sure you can find them, but you'll likely end up getting signal reflections as well as a darker image due to attenuation. What you'd want to do to get around this is get a distribution amplifier of some sort.
>>3197590
Hot damn I'm ready to play Mother 1 on my CRT. It looks fucking great in your setup. What's the word on NES/Famicom RGB? I've looked at the NESRGB board, but it's on the upper end of my confidence with modding shit. How is it on the Famicom 1?
Yeah buddy
>>3197718
Hm, I stand corrected.
>>3197743
I don't use RGB on my famicom because it outputs decent video already and the NESRGB has all terrible inaccurate color palettes.
This is composite video. My monitor would support RGB, but I just don't think it's worth it when the colors aren't even right. If it had Nestopia's "canonical" palette it'd be worth it.
The mod for composite is easy if you do it without replacing the RF modulator board, but harder if you do since you have to then replace the power supply too. It's hard to eliminate the jailbar pattern from the original famicom but possible. I have them MOSTLY gone but not entirely, and I'm happy with it because I love the famicom aesthetics and they are hardly noticeable.
Pictured: AV mod the simple way.
>>3197743
>>3197864
The hard method here. Did this most recently. Hard because you have to build a new voltage regulator for it, too. It's hard to get decent cooling in that tight space.
>>3197743
>>3197864
>>3197893
Note that a lot of people disagree and say the added clarity is worth losing any and all color fidelity. I disagree since the NES already outputs really fucking good composite.
>>3197864
>>3197893
>>3197938
>any and all color fidelity
Have you seen the new pallete?
New on the left/old on right.
It's pretty much perfect from what I understand. It what I was waiting for before I order a NESRGB. Just doing a bit more research before I spend the money.
>>3197945
tell me more about this 'the new palette'.
I don't know which mega man game that's from but I can compare it to nestopia canonical if you can tell me.
>>3197951
YUV-V3
I should clarify by perfect I mean it "looks like a SNES" basically. It wont be as dark as a NES with composite.
>>3197954
A link would be helpful.
Also, what mega man game is it? You still need to tell me.
>>3197954
>>3197951
Forgot link http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html
>>3197957
Sorry. It's Mega Man 2.
>>3197938
Unless your NES outputs with that wavy line noise shit...
Oh wait, this thing?
http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html
All of it is green tinted. Still not nestopia canonical (which I insist is the single most accurate NES palette I have ever tried).
Also as you need even more expensive hardware to program these new palettes on it's hardly ideal.
It's better but still wrong. Notice how the red is different (the font being different is just because I'm playing the japanese FDS version). Also a bit brighter, as you said.
>>3197960
I'll try megaman in a second.
>>3197951
>capture card
>accurate
>>3197970
typically un-noticeable. And at least that's something natural. I'd take some jailbars for good colors.
>>3197972
Oh, and the statues should be ever so slightly purple.
>>3197973
>calibrating your CRT & computer monitor, doing a video capture and finding the result to be the same as your CRT is displaying is inaccurate
>>3197975
It's not unnoticable, it's common enough that I can find an image of it through google that pretty much describes what I'm talking about
>>3197980
Oh, that? I thought you meant the faint jailbars in the image I posted.
That looks like a ground loop.
>>3197981
Here's another set of pics
http://atariage.com/forums/topic/151966-wavy-lines-on-screen/
I've never seen a solution to this problem.
>>3197983
>Thye weird thing is that after about 10 minutes of playing the lines will go away and the screen will look 100% fine
Capacitors. Almost definitely capacitors.
Recap the RF/power board first, and if that doesn't resolve it do the rest of the electrolytics.
>>3197972
>Also as you need even more expensive hardware to program these new palettes on it's hardly ideal.
You can buy the NESRGB with them on it already.
>It's better but still wrong.
The problem is what the NES outputs isn't that great to begin with. It's dark. It wont be accurate because it's seen as an improvement.
I agree with your issues about the colors before this new pallette.
>>3197945
I just tried all the levels of MM2 that I could and still can't find that screen, unless it's the dr. wily boss screen?
I do have some screengrabs I took to debunk Drakon bullshit a while back.
>>3197991
It's the beginning of Wiley 1. I don't know how I feel about the pallettte difference. I can tell that it's different, but I feel like I've seen NES games emulated and rereleased so many times that I don't have a sense of which is the most "accurate". That being said, a lot of the ones I see on emulators and the non-original RGB pallette choices (Garish and Improved) are fucking ass.
>>3197991
New pallettes.
>>3197990
You can get chrominance right, even if luminance is wrong and needs to be compensated for by the contrast control
I see incorrect chrominance which is about 95% of the problem here.
Here's a big problem. Reds. Totally wrong.
>>3198001
Note that drakon's problems are caused by:
a) his capture card for composite has the brightness set way too high so the darkest black is a gray.
b) the S-video one is using a playchoice-10 PPU.
>>3198001
>luminances
>I see incorrect chrominance which is about 95% of the problem here.
Which would never be correct because of all the noise of the original source.
It's not like you can go from RGB to composite and keep the same colors.
What you want is RGB but loaded up with the same noise as composite?
>>3198012
You do realize that color is phase modulated in NTSC video, right? Noise is a miniscule problem.
>What you want is RGB but loaded up with the same noise as composite?
No, I want the YIQ (NTSC composite) to RGB color conversion used in the creation of the palette to be accurate. TV's do a YIQ-to-RGB conversion internally, so there has to be a way to do it properly when making NES palettes.
Composite isn't necessarily a 'noisy' signal - the quality loss comes from a low-pass filter on chroma.
I'm going to bed. But while this palette is better it still has issues and isn't good enough for me.
If I want RGB-quality video from NES games, I play them on my wii where I can use canonical nestopia.
>>3198016
> TV's do a YIQ-to-RGB conversion internally, so there has to be a way to do it properly when making NES palettes.
Problem is that there are multiple ways to do it, and different TVs did it different ways because they had different decoders. There is no one true NES palette because of this.
>>3197396
>>3198016
>Noise is a miniscule problem.
It's a huge problem.
I get you like composite but cmon man.
I've been looking around at SCART cables. How much does quality matter? Ebay and aliexpress have some dirt cheap stuff. Is it worth spending $25+ fo cables?
>>3198027
The colorspace for YIQ is a standard, the colorspace for RGB is a standard, and there is a mathematically 'correct' way to do the translation.
a calibrated broadcast monitor I trust to do it correctly.
Wikipedia (which is always 100% accurate of course):
"Very few television sets perform true I and Q decoding, due to the high costs of such an implementation."
Apparently Ikegami even advertised that they performed proper YIQ conversion.
>>3198038
You do not seem to understand how phase modulation works. It's similar to the reason FM radio is so much more resistant to noise than AM radio (though frequency and phase modulation are still different).
I'd prefer RGB, if the NES ever outputted RGB. But it doesn't. If you want 8-bit RGB, get a master system. If you can't handle the non-emulated video, go play on your LCD and get out of the CRT thread.
And now bed.
>>3198052
Feel like this is bait, but no, drill holes for jacks on your consoles and use high quality and locally available coaxial cable.
>>3198054
The originality argument of RGB kinda goes out the window pretty quick.
On top of you already modding the console for composite when it originally only did RF.
The noise in the image leads to incorrect colors being displayed. That is a fact. Like I pointed out.
>>3198056
No bait, legitimately curious. Generally cable quality is bullshit, I was more asking about build quality, honestly. I've had a couple of late-market Chinese cables that cracked/split, etc. I figure video quality's pretty much the same across the board.
>>3198059
>it is a fact because I believe it is a fact but I have no citations other than me
Prove it has any measurable impact on chrominance.
>modifying for composite when it originally only did RF
Yes but it did produce NTSC video internally and fed it into an RF modulator. It never produced RGB signals anywhere. That's the difference. Also, you are ignoring the AV famicom and front loading NES.
>>3198071
>Also, you are ignoring the AV famicom and front loading NES.
And you're ignoring the PlayChoice10.
>Prove it has any measurable impact on chrominance.
Again see the pic. Joking but it does show exactly what I'm talking about. Especially on white text.
>>3198054
>>The colorspace for YIQ is a standard, the colorspace for RGB is a standard, and there is a mathematically 'correct' way to do the translation.
That's where Nestopia's "canonical" YIQ colors come from, based on the standardized method. However, not everyone followed the standard and that's where "consumer" YIQ and other palettes came from.
>>3198059
>19425
>>3198080
>you're ignoring the playchoice 10.
Okay that proves it, you're fucking retarded.
The playchoice used a completely different PPU from the NES and it is widely agreed that it used a horribly wrong palette. The home console NESes never even internally used RGB.
Kevin Horton/Kevtris actually dumped palette info from a ton of RGB PPUs (the titler, the playchoice, the VS systems) and they are all wrong - though the titler is closest. It has very wrong color emphasis behavior though.
I can't see it on white text in the PC10 ad. All I see is jpeg artifacting which is not specific to chrominance.
>>3198098
I agree it looks like shit. It still was a thing.
Sorry what do you want? A RGB mod that fucks all the colors and overall image up by being as noisy as an original NES?
Give me a break.
I just want RGB mod that gives brightness on par with the SNES.
Accurate to what the colors are suppose to be.
>>3198080
My impression of 20L5 Guy is that you aren't going to convince him of amything. His monitors are the best monitors and his methods of playing/doing things are the best. I don't hate the guy, but there's a reason he was easily identifiable even prior to tripcoding.
>>3198110
My monitors are not the best but they are calibrated which is something anyone can do. I've even posted that test pattern DVD to help people to do it on multiple occasions.
I just want the people who do these mods to actually care about color grading if they're going to charge over $80 for it (or $100 AUD).
>>3198112
Try emailing Tim Worthington. Maybe you can commission him to include the colors you want as an optional download.
>>3198112
>What I want is the canonical nestopia palette.
I don;t follow emulation and I can't find shit for comparisons via google.
I don;t think it's going to be better than this new pallete. To me this seems to be as good as it gets. What goes next is darkening the image to be more like RF/Composite.
>>3198125
Ya I think I'll stick with YUV V3. Until I see a direct comparison with "canonical nestopia palette" I think my waiting for a NESRGB mod that meats my expectation is done.
>Famicom Titler
>>3198184
still bad color emphasis and inaccurate colors, and still not a RP2C02 PPU. But I acknowledged it.
>>3198130
or you could, I dunno,download nestopia and actually try it?
Bed. for real now.
>>3198108
you can see that those reds are supposed to be more brown than red. this is probably due to NTSC kind of sucking at red, but an accurate color palette should represent that too IMO
>>3197781
That is awesome
>>3198305
No. The hearts are red. You know hearts are usually red not shit brown.
They're red in Nintendo power and other documents also.
The noise and darkness will do that.
if my pvm has no output for rgb, only input. how can i capture? can someone point me to a splitter (not just a switch) that will not degrade my picture? hopefully something that doesn't cost more than a monitor itself?
>>3198309
I been trying to gitgud. it's like sim front mission.
My dick was so hard when https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7hnBVuoIbW8
not my vid
>>3198342
do it yourself with a THS7374
>>3198312
Try the NES color bar demo sometime. On composite. The NES does not produce any vivid reds.
We found another thing 20L5 guy is autistic about.
Anyone know a good guy to mod shit? I don't trust myself with a soldering iron.
>>3199012
You already knew that I knew the NESRGB had inaccurate colors and that I used composite. I'm sorry but if you bought a really expensive RGB capable 15khz monitor that was used in a space where color accuracy was vitally important (such as a TV station) you should care about color quality as much as crisp images.
>>3199323
What are you wanting to mod? I could do it. Even if I disagree with your choices I'd do it for money :\
>3199402
>the guy too cheap to buy 220µF caps wants to mod purely for money...
>>3199402
S-video and mega amp modded genesis model 1 VA7, the most recent project of mine.
>>3199407
>not realizing I bought all the parts new for this genesis and not even noticing the 220uf caps on the board
>3199402
>litteraly the drakon of /crt/
>somehow hopes to mod someone else stuff
turns out when I make something for someone other than me I do it differently because I want to do it 'right'.
>"right" is drakon-tier
>>3199428
>doesn't jizz hot glue all over PCBs or melt the backs of consoles
>drakon
Choose your words with a bit more care. here's a drakon mod.
another drakon mod pic.
there's more to drakon than hotglue.
infact you have almost the exact same attitude
>>3199430
your perf board is too big, not cut very nicely, and the layout is poor. Otherwise it looks fine to me.
>>3199454
First time I ever did the mod, and it fits inside the console with all the shielding in place. Just barely though. The layout works just fine.
>>3199452
Drakon offered to mod stuff for people before he even knew how to solder stuff properly so they wouldn't come loose internally. He also refuses to listen to people who want things done differently than thr 'drakon way', where I am willing to do what a customer asks for instead of what I would personally opt for (since it's their money).
You are just being an ass.
>>3198459
Do i like look some sort of electro wizard
>>3199472
it's not that hard, or maybe try to find a tech aware friend to do it ?
>>3199402
SNES mini rbg. I have the retrorgb amp and resistors to correct the brightness.
Also some shit for pc-engine but I don't have one yet so i'm not worried about it right now.
>>3199464
>>3199476
>>3198112
Canonical is usually the default palette on Nestopia anyway, and if not, it can be easily changed to it.
>>3198130
>while the YUV-V3 palette offers the vividness of the YUV palette, only with the darker green and cyan colors corrected to the behavior of the real console.
It's literally Nestopia's YUV Canonical with slightly darker green and cyan.
Is there an easy way to find PVM's in PAL-land? The cost of buying and importing them is extortionate. Are there decent alternatives? I haven't really had much luck at flea markets. I thought most PAL CRT's had RGB comparable SCARTS but I can't find any.
>>3199784
>Is there an easy way to find PVM's in PAL-land?
not really, and prices tend to go up
> I thought most PAL CRT's had RGB comparable SCARTS but I can't find any.
first 12 members countries should have them by the boatload, don't know where you're located.
>>3199623
Can you post screenshots or something? Again I don't mess with emulators.
>>3199805
Screenshots are on firebrandx's page for the palette
http://www.firebrandx.com/nespalette.html
The second set of comparisons is between YUV-V3 and the original YUV Canonical palette.
>>3199902
>$5 flasher is probably to much for the guy
>>3199902
I didn't know that's what they were compared to. Thought it was an older version.
That looks better to me? Or am I being ignorant here?
>>3199461
I happen to prefer FDS Zelda and found my RAM adapter first. Byt it doesn't fucking matter for color comparison.
>>3197040
...so that thing is a just a fancy sync combiner? I hope it wasn't worth much. Not trying to be rube, but a one-shot iron, a diode, three resistors and some hookup wire might have been cheaper.
>>3197598
Which RE is that?
>>3198117
Thing is, he probably has the files just lying around. He just keeps tinkering until he gets things perfect.
Just copped this little av in pocket tv for a project. anyone know the native resolution of these? will 240p even work?
not a crt but figured the only place I could get any feedback
>>3199927
RE2 Leon Disk.
>>3199587
Differences: one is a RGB distribution amp and one is a mixer and mega amp with headphone buffer.
>>3199906
Neither of those being compared is nestopia's canonical palette.
And downloading an emulator won't give you cancer.
>>3199905
The price of a windows license is. Also I don't want to install windows just for something this pointless (since it's still the wrong palette).
>>3199927
I don't think he has a colorimeter or he'd already have it perfect.
>>3199931
That'll probably bbe a Game Gear-tier screen.
I have no idea what the resolutionnwould be but there is probably a NTSC line somewhere in there after the RF demodulator.
So I went to my local GoodWill, and this is pretty much all they had to show as far as tech goes.
The search for a good CRT continues.
>>3199948
>And downloading an emulator won't give you cancer.
Or you know you could just post some screenshots since you're the one calling the pallete shit.
>>3199323
Anyone at least know a place that could help me find someone?
>>3199956
>Missing the Disney Princess CRT
>>3199952
it's going to become a prototype gbc/gg/lynx/t-x/nomad/ngpc handheld Rpi. I will get a later active matrix and a 3d printed case once I hack this one together.
>>3199985
pink tvs are cute
linytron >>>>>>>>>>>> trinitron
>>3200013
pink is also 80s tubular
>>3199971
o/ hi there.
Also maybe shmups if you don't want to trust me with it?
Currently using an old diamondtron I picked up at a thrift store. Seems to work fine. Played through re2 on it not that long ago. It seems to be a little dim though, I've got contrast at 100 and brightness at 70, anything above starts to wash out the colors and doesn't make a huge difference on brightness. Any ideas on what it could be? Dying tube?
>>3200087
>Dying tube
Yep, the previous owner never switched it off when not in use.
http://www.wilsonselectronics.net/articles4/repair-monitor.htm
playing river city ransom for the first time today
also recently got a 70-200
which is more sharp than my 35mm prime at f4.
>>3200087
I have a similarly sized crt (at 2nd house, but its a vx series) thats just as bright as when we got it and it was used for 10 years about 3 hours a day. Nice display, does 1600x1200 at 65hz no problem and 130hz at 800x600, too bad she weights like 35 lbs lol.
>>3200258
>35 lbs lol
still haven't got it upstairs
>>3200075
Last time I saw a raspberry pi, it used an RCA jack for video. Did that change?
That cable might work but it will depend on which rings of the connector are for audio and which for video - and if they connected both the non-ground rings to the one ring on the TRS jack or if they left one of the TRRS jack rings unconnected.
It'd be best to split it to RCA jacks and figure it out that way, I'd think, but that's just me.
>>3200087
'brightness' does wash out the image above black level. You shouldn't have it maxed out anyway - and CRTs are less bright than LCDs by nature. That's totally normal. Disregard this guy >>3200197, unless it is REALLY REALLY dim. But washing out at high 'brightness' is normal.
>>3200087
>diamondtron
Is that one of those that has something called "SuperBright"? Turn that on if so.
>>3200278
i'm trying to keep it to a minimal form factor but wanted to use a pocket tv for that fm radio and ease of adding a second video input, Yes the new Pi use a 3.5mm 4 pole for analog out. The cable I posted will be l+r audio only from the 4 pole and I will have to hack it to be video and L audio. otherwise it will end up looking like the borg.
>>3200225
What emulator?
>>3200326
wii, component, 240p, FCEUGX
pvm 14L5 , 800 V-lines
Va se fuder
>>3200330
Thought so. If you were using nestopia in retroarch or some other multisystem emu you'd have better colors.
FCEUX GX doesn't let you load custom palette files does it?
>>3200350
*thin scanlines.
20L5 guy is right on that.
Also, retroarch has about a billion options but if you find the right one you can get good horizontal and vertical resolutions and the thin scan lines you want.
With 'unmask overscan' set in the nestopia UE core settings, you want a resolution of 512x240 in retroarch IIRC. Looks great.
DVI-D seems to be disappearing. Are Displayport to VGA adapters any good for PC CRT monitors or are they a big meme.
>>3200367
20L5 is usually right, but he's a dick about it. I think that's why people can't stand him.
>>3200375
Depends entirely on the DAC in the adapter.
You should just use a card with analog (DVI-I or DVI-A) output.
>>3200375
GTX 970 still has one DVI-I port
>>3200390
And for people without three million dollars, there's the GTX 750 ti.
>>3200376
>>3199430 is why people don't like him, he doesn't even know he's doing wrong.
and things like
>>3200376
No. What initially made people start to notice him was what is currently his name. He'd bring it up all the time, behaving like, as I believe another anon put it, a self-satisfied child.
Do flat screened CRT computer monitors have the same geometry and convergence issues as flat screened CRT TVs?
>>3200591
Yes and often worse.
>>3200591
yes but they usually have better ways of adjusting geometry.
>>3200430
I fail to see what he actually did wrong in that picture. It's a little big and cluttered, but nothing actually looks wrong and it probably works.
And he's right about the old portable LCD TVs having screens about like the Game Gears. Mine does, anyway (Casio WV-600 or something, I think). Horrible viewing angles and horrible quality.
>>3199957
he did, scroll up the thread.
>>3200783
All I see is the one with the scanlines all over it.
>>3200786
and the earthbound NES one.
The scanlines one has a composite NES compared to a wii running YPbPr with Nestopia canonical if I remember right from sometime last year. If he used the same exposure settings it'll be pretty damn accurate.
>>3200793
And compared to the new pallete yuv v3?
>>3200795
Oh my god, just download the fucking emulator, you could have a comparison right now if you would just do it.
If you're that interested just do it yourself.
>>3200797
Or you could? I'm not the one saying it's shit.
>>3199956
no way in heck id have skimped on that mini radio tv.
>3199948
>The price of a windows license is
>pirates 1000s of roms
>worries about win license
