Previous thread: >>3165325
This thread is for the spirited discussion of CRT displays - Televisions, monitors and projectors used for the playing of retro games!
>Try to keep it /vr/-related: Nothing past 5th gen(+Dreamcast). Slight OT might be okay if related to CRTs (E.G. 16:9 compatible models, flatscreens, etc.) Systems with backwards compatibility are also pretty safe territory, assuming you're focusing on the older games. PC CRTs are also a-ok.
>Produce OC! Get out your real cameras and take beautiful pictures of your CRTs displaying recognizable characters with the kind of beautiful accuracy that brings tears to the eyes of young and old alike! If you take 100 photos, at least one of them will turn out alright! (maybe)
>Try to be as detailed as possible when asking info on a specific model. As always, google is your friend, and we are your friends with benefits. Older archived threads aren't a bad place to look either.
>Share appreciation for others choice of technology and personal philosophy of gaming. As always show courtesy in your discussion and moderate yourselves first.
Discussion of video processing and scaling devices is okay, but try to keep the focus on CRTs and CRT accessories
CRT Pastebin (WIP): http://pastebin.com/1Ri5TS3x
S-Video Pasta: http://pastebin.com/rH2h6C7W
Thread Survey: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1PhdXJYwA8xModrTV1Yt-i1tvNgwiagpeBx0m_xNIVtc/viewform?edit_requested=true&fbzx=9009823977812318933
We were on page 10, I gave you a chance. pseudo-anonymous OP this time though.
>>3182134
Yep, as an anon (>>3182114) said, that's a retrace line. I get them on my monochrome IBM terminal if I turn brightness up too high.
Here's how the G2/screen dial behaves on my consumer set (see webm). That flicker around 12 seconds in is actually accompanied by a kind of 'ping' sound as electricity arcs somewhere in the tube. I assume that shutoff point is intended to prevent it on yours.
>>3182156
>Sony PVM 8044Q. Tell me about it.
>Assuming the image and other image things are all good, and assuming I would want a cute 'lil 8 incher, is it a good get?
If for some reason you actually feel 8" is adequate for a CRT and don't mind pressing your nose to it, sure, it'll be great. One of the better 8" sets you could possibly get.
A bit old - I believe it's the same series as my 1944Q, which was made in 1989. Be sure yours is in good shape. As it supports RGB, YPbPr, S-Video, and composite (same as the 1944Q), it'll do just fine aside from being ridiculously tiny.
>>3182281
Two attempts later, here. Started at default position, turn to the right, turn to the left. If turned any farther to the left, it will eventually white out and shut the tube off entirely.
>Turned to the right
The TV does not shut off; the picture simply blacks out. You can still hear the tube.
>Turned to the left
The TV shuts off; you can hear the static discharge from the tube and a click.
I think the best results so far have been with the pots on the flyback left at the level they were originally set at. The G2 was even painted down with a white streak.
>>3182340
Alright, I'd leave that alone around where it was and push down contrast, I think.
I'll keep looking for more options, though.
It doesn't smoothly fade to black like mine does in the webm?
>>3182354
Yeah, it straight up cuts out like inu the vid when turned to the right - it seems to get a little darker and less vibrant but its a VERY tight area and a span of a few seconds before the picture cuts out like that.
It's a KV-32FV310.
Any ways to get a pretty poppy picture with contrast down?
>>3182360
Looking around on the web, increasing the voltage of the heater element of the CRT seems to be an option on sony sets. Apparently there used to be relatively easy-to-use addons to do this. Looking into it now.
Could just be that the cathode in your TV is getting weak and losing some of its precision.
>>3182360
>>3182375
Note that the heating element of the tube runs on a low voltage (around 8-12 volts it looks like). This sounds pretty interesting, actually - much less damaging than a tube rejuvenator. As I've worked on non-CRT vacuum tubes before, it makes some sense to me, too.
The heater is what warms up the tube (duh)
When you turn on the TV it takes a few seconds for a picture to appear - that's because it has to 'warm up', and it's the heater that does this. Tube heaters are also why old tube-based amplifiers and radios have to be on for a little bit before you get any sound.
>>3182397
Might be. I'm still looking around. So you think red actually blooms moreso than the other colors?
>>3182412
Yeah, from what I've seen on the screen, red is the color that blooms out whereas blue and green tend to stay within their lines.
>>3182445
Gonna head to bed, but I'll check in here tomorrow. Thanks 20L5-senpai.
http://www.mouser.com/ds/2/43/CRT_datasheet-180889.pdf
Seems interesting. Looks like there's a large list of heater voltages by tube type. Found it while googling the tube in my apple composite monitor (part # 3707B22-DT. Not sure what the '-DT' suffix means.)
Just posting in case anyone's interested.
>>3182268
Why do you play your games on the floor
>>3182563
floors are pretty comfy
>>3182563
see >>3182569
>>3182670
tatami > western floors
>>3182685
I don't mind carpet.
Also, I have an enormous novelty-sized stuffed bear I use as a headrest.
Protip: prolonged exposure to CRT televisions are known to the state of California to cause cancer
Picked up a Trinitron KV-20S30, looks beautiful. $25 well spent.
>>3182734
going outside also causes cancer.
Anyone know a good Switch box for S-video on Amazon? Not sure how much I should spend.
>>3182886
craigslist is your friend
So just bought myself a 36 inch sony trinitro but i am having an issue with it. Text appear blurry and if i put it in any other mode than pro the entire thing is blurry. Any way i can fix this?
>>3182268
DO YOU think if I go to my local news station will I find thrown out PVM or BVM tvs?
>>3182934
Forgot images as you can see the v text in the top left is blurry as fuck and the overall picture doesnt look sharp at all despite sonys reputation. Any way to fix this or did i blow 80 buck?
>>3182952
so..thats composite?
>>3182972
Tried both composite and svideo adaptors. Shit is still fucked and not just videogames dvds too. Subtitle text is practically unreadable. My screen shots dont really show how bad this is. Only system i dont have an s video adaptor for is a saturn. What is up with this thing
>>3182978
Set to max sharpness
>>3182987
Try the Focus adjustment inside the tv on the flyback (connected to the power cable). Careful dont touch anything else inside or shocky.
>>3182997
So take off the back panel? Oh boy cant wait for me to fuck it up even more. Well try that out tomorrow hopefully it works ot. Knew i shouldnt have bought it when i found out the previous owner was black
>>3183005
crts can be a bitch sometimes. desu adjusting that might fuck it up worse so take a picture before you adjust anything.
>>3183009
Well worse comes to worse guess i can always higher someone to tune it if i fuck up
>>3183017
I imagine CRT technicians as some kind of hermit sages living in the mountains these days.
These threads are getting genuinely worrying.
Obituaries when?
>>3182734
Prolong exposure to California is also known to the state of Califronia to cause cancer.
>>3182952
>>3182987
I wanted to say that it was just composite being composite, but it doesn't look much better on my similarly sized (32 inch). A good tune up could probably help it, as this one is quite beat up and in need of one itself.
Dropping $80 on something like that though, may have been a bit foolhardy.
What's the model number?
>>3182268
should i buy this big, flat sony crt or should i stick with my small trinitron?
are the biger ones bad or something?
i know that's a stupid question but i have no idea and i feel like my trinitron is too small..
>>3183049
that's something around 40''
>>3183043
Sony KD36FS170
>>3183049
Large flat crts are pron to geometry issues I've heard. The girl in the reflection on the tv looks cute tho. You can ask to test her out before you buy. Large tbsp can also be burdensome depending on your space.
>>3183057
NEIN
>>3183049
>rear proj
avoid like the plague
>>3183043
Forgot my pictures. Left is KV-32FS13, right is OEV-203.
>>3183057
Digital tuner is nice, but despite the lower end digits, it's apparently a Hi-Scan(ED/HD). If you can get it in good condition, it'd be nice to watch television on, but it's not going to be terribly amazing for retro. Not sure how if those lower end Hi-Scans fare any better with 480i, who knows.
$80 is quite steep for that, especially in the condition it seems to be in.
>>3183075
Cheapest i found it but yeah gonna follow anons advise and try the tuner in the back. If that fails may just have to settle for a AV27D303 jvc or something if i cant get it to look right sine thats the only crt in my area being sold right now
best way to transport a large crt? 45x38x20
Cram it in the Volvo? face down or face up? Rent a van? I have to pick it up tomorrow.
>>3183084
>AV27D303
JVC is just as much a quality brand as Sony, and that looks to be quite a fine set. Component, S-Video, and decently sized to boot.
Make sure to test it out before you get it, and try not to drop as much on it as you did the Sony and you should be fine.
>>3183087
You're welcome, anon
>>3183104
Checking craigs list another guy is selling a AV-24F703 and a AV-24F704 for around 30 each. How do those fair
>>3183101
if you must lay it down, do it face down, but be sure to have a huge layer of foam or something. You don't want scratches on those things.
>>3183113
Look similarly decent, but are both flat faced which tend to have more geometry problems than curved faced models.
Assuming it's similarly priced and in good condition, I'd probably stick with the 27D303.
>>3183126
It's going to have to lay down to fit. I'll find some padding and tape cardboard over the screen.
>>3182937
You might find a few PVMs or other brands of broadcast monitors. They won't know what you mean if you say 'PVM', just ask if they still have any tube monitors.
>>3183126
foam can scratch the coatings on front of a CRT.
Careful.
I have been told that turning down the contrast prolongs the life of a CRT.
Are there any other settings that can add/reduce wear on the CRT?
>>3183690
lower brightness helps too
>>3183690
mainly contrast.
>>3183691
Not really. Brightness is a control for calibrating your black levels. It has nothing to do with intensity.
>so many people get HD CRT TVs because they don't know any better
RIP
I feel like it should be in the OP to stop it from happening so often.
>>3183769
So many people buy a CRT regardless because they don't know any better
I see some nice CRT TVs on craigslist.
I want to test them out first with the 240p test suite program.
I will bring a console with that disc in it to test the CRT.
What tests should I do in the 240p test suite to check for CRT wear and degredation?
I won't have time to do all of them as these people just want someone to haul out their old heavy TV.
>>3183810
I don't know if you're autistic or something. Doing all that shit for like a $5-$50 ancient TV is pretty pretentious.
Sure if you're talking about PVMs/BVMs, but commercial sets? Cmon guy....
>>3183821
These are 36" sets that weigh 220lbs.
I want to get the best one not all three.
>>3183834
And?
Just make sure they have the remote and haul them away.
>>3183840
He's weak
>>3183834
Are you going to go to all 3 houses and try them first?
lol
>>3183821
no it's no. Once I couldn't get colors to show on a Panasonic set. Had I not brought a console to test I would have ended up with an useless tv.
>>3183675
Whatup mang
>>3183685
thanks for the tip. I am bringing a large friend, Measured the 'vo and it will fit with the seats down but that only leaves me 1 helper and the seller is a single lady. This thing must weigh a ton. This is gun be tough. It is a console tv and the back seems smooth. If that is the case should I just set it on its back? I don't want to scratch it up. It looks nice, has real wood finish and the original remote which is my crt fetish.
Looked up the om it is a 35" not 36" that lying bitch ;)
>>3183810
agreed with other anons that's too much. Just bring a cartridge system (no load time) and the video interconnect you plan on using (cvbs, svid, ypbpr) if it looks decent you're good. SMBW is good because the intro screen is framed and has scrolling.
>>3183890
Even big guys struggle with 32-36" sets with no handles. A 32" FD trini is a bitch. It's not as much the weight as the awkwardness of hand holds.
>>3184260
the back (and sides) isn't made to support the tube weight. It might crack.
I've got a CRT TV that has a sort of pinching distortion going on. It's subtle enough that static images look fine, but anything moving through the center onto the right side of the screen gets a wavy effect on them that's distracting while playing games.
How would I go about troubleshooting this?
>>3184225
That is the plan.
ANSWER ME YOU SELFISH FUCKS!
>>3182872
>>3182872
>>3182872
Ok so I have to choose between a flat CRT TV and a curved CRT TV.
I wrote a list of pros/cons:
Flat CRT
+less glare
+more centered weight for lifting
+less rounded image (Zelda dungeons have straight edges)
+component input
+more inputs
+newer so might have less wear
-heavier
-geometry and convergence issues
-less durable (resistance to impacts)
-worthless clutter in the menus like parental controlls, edge enhancement, auto setup(undoes all your tweaks), and "true" surround sound
Curved CRT
+lighter
+less geometry and convergence issues
+more durable
+less bullshit options in the menus
-more glare
-front weighted, awkward lifting
-rounded image
-no component input
-less inputs
-older so might have more wear
Did I miss anything?
What about the semi-flat black plastic Trinitrons? Are they closer in these attributes to flat CRTs or Curved CRTs?
What do you think about the upcoming retrovision cables which will have an embedded chip that transcodes RGB into component so you can get perfect picture from your consoles to your TV with only 1 cable?
Is this going to make professional monitors and Scart to YUV transcoder boxes obsolete?
Or is there some caveat that they don't mention on their site because it would deflate people's enthusiasm?
>Curved CRT
>no component input
>>3182872
What if instead of using a switchbox you just kept on chaining together S-video splitters until all your consoles plug into the same TV input socket?
>>3184353
>What do you think about the upcoming retrovision cables which will have an embedded chip that transcodes RGB into component so you can get perfect picture from your consoles to your TV with only 1 cable?
It's a transcoder with chink special cables. Nothing special about it.
>>3184353
>Flat CRT
>+more centered weight
>Curved CRT
>-front weighted
that's the other way around, flatters have thicker front glass
Cylindrical black Sonys are closer to curved ones, with a bit less glare
>>3184360
Would this work?
http://www.amazon.com/RadioShack-1500320-Component-Distribution-Amplifier/dp/B004Z1SO9O/ref=sr_1_2?s=videogames&ie=UTF8&qid=1462226066&sr=8-2&keywords=svideo+splitter
>>3184359
I prefer my crts with curves. Flat crts get out. >component
try out RGB air-headed anime girl.
>>3184376
component = rgb in terms of quality
>>3184376
I meant to make fun of him for making such an assumption but forgot to reply to his post. Sad days all around surely.
>>3184353
I like 4 player gaming with friends.
Which has better viewing angles:
Flat CRT or curved CRT?
>>3184353
>+more centered weight for lifting
Flat tubes tend to be even HEAVIER at the front, so I don't see how making something front heavy even more so some how centers the weight.
>-front weighted, awkward lifting
Flat faced CRTs are just as awkward to lift as non-flat models
>-rounded image
Isn't terribly rounded except in extreme situations
>-no component input
Incorrect. Flats are often times more likely to have component just because they came out later on, but this in no way means you're not going to find component on non-flats. Case in point >>3183084
>-less inputs
No real basis for that. Lower end models will have less and high end models will have more; That goes for both varieties.
>semi-flat black plastic Trinitrons
Those are just the standard Trinitron, and the same style they were made in from the late 60's until they moved over to only making the flat faced models. They're barrel shaped rather than spherical. They should be grouped with regular curved CRTs(since they are) but I will give you one extra caveat:
Regular Trinitrons+TATE can lead to somewhat awkward scrolling, especially on smaller sets.
>>3184376
Read the post above it; It was obviously in response to that.
Is this CRT good ??
its a Korting Transmare 54660
?
>>3184368
It's special because it doesn't need a special box with its own power cable.
It cleverly taps the composite and s-video signals from the console for use as electrical power.
This also means it will be much cheaper than a transcoder box or professional monitor+adapter cables.
>>3184397
>It cleverly taps the composite and s-video signals from the console for use as electrical power.
(ツ)
It simply uses +5v from the console dumbass
>>3184394
its certainly giving me wood.
>>3184397
>This also means it will be much cheaper than a transcoder box or professional monitor+adapter cables.
How is spending $35 per console cheaper?
Don't forget. This is china shit. You have no idea what the actual quality will be of these cables.
>>3184409
the controls,, its actually a vacuum tube type TV, THE BIGGEST AND HEAVIEST i EVER SEEN
in the process of bringing it back to life
>>3184424
DAMN those knobs and sliders sure are sexy.
>>3184424
another pic
>>3184397
>taps the composite and s-video signals from the console for use as electrical power.
No
Most systems that have RGB on the multiout also have some sort of voltage coming out of there to be used for switching SCART compatible TVs between composite and RGB mode. This is of no use for US TVs and is free to use as such.
You're going to be dropping ~$40 or so on each cable, so unless you only want 1 cable, even going to 2 cables heavily tilts the scale in favor of a dedicated transcoder; And you also have to take into account that even after 2 years of work, you only SNES and Genesis as cable options.
What if you want to play Saturn, or are a stubborn fuck who refuses to use a PS2 for PS1 games and has play on his SCPH-1001? Yes you clear out extra clutter, but you also have variety and the ability to use better cabling.
I'll laugh like a moron if these ship and end up with heavy audio interference.
>>3184424
It'd certainly make on hell of a set piece. If nothing more, it'd probably fit in very nicely with some RF only consoles.
>>3184293
You have the og remote?
>>3184332
We dont use S-video
We dont know
>>3184381
N-no It doesnt unless you have a wii.
>>3184492
What exactly do you guys use? My CRTs either don't have anything other than S-video or the component has something wrong with it (I get a purple line at the side of the screen).
>>3184498
*other than S-video and composite
>>3184386
Technically curved, I guess. But a Flat CRT is going to have more than enough no problem. You aren't thinking about LCD viewing angles, are you? Those are totally different.
>>3184498
Component or RGB/SCART
We'll probably need to see a pic of the purple line for diagnoses
Do you guys ever wish a real authentic CRT technician would bless us with his presence?
Imagine the macguyver fuck working his magic
Occasionally come to these threads whenever o spot something interesting and ask for advice.
Anyone have experience with pic related? I've only ever encountered these TVs once and it's an ideal size (13") and I like the idea of an audio jack for late night game sessions.
Only problem I see that there's only a basic yellow/white av port in the front and an RF out on the back, from what I've been told from the seller.
It looks nice, but not sure if it's $10 good.
I like small TVs but have had no luck finding anything smaller or having multiple video inputs.
I've been told by one anom stay away from these sort of TVs that don't have S-Video as an optional input.
>>3184454
I looked at their compatibility list is it just tv's that wont accept a 240p signal or are the cables sync on green rgb and not actually YPbPr?
>>3184519
>I like the idea of an audio jack for late night game sessions.
You're welcome friend.
>>3184519
Clearer image of the TV in question if anyone is curious.
I got this Trinitron for free the other day, Swapped out a Larger Sanyo for it. Smaller screen, but more inputs and easier to move if needed.
>>3184526
Even so, I've been playing my older consoles onan HD TVand have been wanting to pick up a small crt for my desk. I appreciate your input on this wire for plugging my headphones, but I still want a CRT.
>>3184536
Well that one is mono so don't get that one.
>>3184520
The cables have transcoders in them, so it is YPbPr.
Is it possible to get 240p resolutions in the newer Wii versions of retroarch? In the old (1.0.0.2 is the last that supports it I believe) versions, there was a video resolution option that you could change to get 240p. It's gone in the 1.2+ versions.
I ask because this was a great, cheap, and easy way to get 240p via emulation on a CRT TV. Obviously the old versions are still available but the newer versions benefit from newer cores and better versions of existing cores, so if anyone knows how to get 240p via the menu or modifying the config file that'd be great.
>>3184491
Nope. From googling it seems like it's something I'll have to open up the TV for and try replace parts to try fix.
>>3183810
Just burn that test pattern DVD and don't bring the console.
You just need a crosshatch.
Also you should be able to figure out which one is best without using test patterns by eyeballing them.
>>3184554
240p worked "fine" when I was screwing around with proper GB/GBC/GBA scaling on the recent (1.3.3) version.
Seems 1.3.4 actually JUST released, which I would assume would also work.
>>3184545
Well, guess I'm going back on the hunt.
>>3184563
Really? What did you do to get it?
>>3184519
mono cvbs only tv vcr. If the picture is square and you only want composite it will be fine. Some are 12v for rv use and can be ran from a cigarette lighter adapter. You can run the consoles audio into pc speakers or a sound dock for better audio or a rca female to 3.5mm/1/8" stereo female adapter if your headphones have volume control.
http://www.ebay.com/itm/UNIREX-DX-4308-Mini-Speaker-with-Radio-USB-SD-MMC-/222061167447?hash=item33b3e08357:g:dfkAAOSw2ENW8IoR
got one of these for my little 8" portable. Sounds good and is conbini when camping.
>>3184260
Oh my god, I still miss my old 20" console set.
Treat it well. If it dies give the shell to me to retrofit a modern CRT into, please :)
If you get a trailer, I managed to keep my 20L5 in okay shape in a u-haul trailer using a few layers of towels beneath and surrounding it, with the monitor sitting upright.
Though the 20L5 can fit in the back of my sedan, too. Just barely.
>>3184359
>flat CRT
>unaware that the chroma subsampling rate of s-video theoretically allows for RGB levels of quality at 240p resolutions
>>3184581
Kindly read >>3184383 sir.
>>3184353
>crt's that aren't flat don't have component inputs or are guaranteed to have less inputs
>>3184590
Wow, I never expected mGBA would work so well on wii. Testing it with Golden Sun now and it's running great.
>>3184579
Thanks for the input anon, much appreciated.
>>3184598
It's shockingly good.
To repeat my settings for getting proper scaling from a few threads back
GBA:
Screen Resolution: 640x240
Aspect Ratio Index: Custom
Custom View Port X: 82
Custom View Port Y: 40
Custom View Port Width: 480
Custom View Port Height: 160
Integer Scale: Off
Set VI Screen Width: 704
GB/GBC:
Screen Resolution: 640x240
Aspect Ratio Index: Custom
Custom View Port X: 160
Custom View Port Y: 48
Custom View Port Width: 320
Custom View Port Height: 144
Integer Scale: Off
Set VI Screen Width: 704
The above settings give an image of almost the exact same dimensions as the output of the GBPlayer using GBI Low Latency. You need to reconfirm the screen resolution AFTER modifying VI screen width, otherwise the image the image will be too thin. I'd also suggest:
Leaving HW Bilinear Filtering ON while you're changing these settings, otherwise things will be extremely difficult to read. Disable it once you're ready to play(and make sure you've selected the core you plan to use before hand). Alternatively, leave Aspect Ratio Index at 4:3 until you've got everything else set.
Turn Integer Scaling ON to get the values up to 320 and 240 respectfully before tweaking things, otherwise you'll be counting up quite a ways.With typo fixed.
>>3184581
Well the lady can't meet until tomorrow or the next day now. I am stoked and will swap in another tv or convert it into a center with a smaller tv/monitor and more shelving for consoles if it dies.
Never thought I'd find something this cool in backwoods alaska, all the old stuff is usually scrapped or damaged from outdoor storage or musty basements.
>3184581
>theory
>>3183769
To be fair, they're great for 480p games.
>>3184381
>component = rgb in terms of quality
Only for the GameCube and Wii
RGB is superior on every other console, except for VGA on the DreamCast.
>>3184454
>I'll laugh like a moron if these ship and end up with heavy audio interference.
What exactly would cause such interference?
>>3184391
>Regular Trinitrons+TATE can lead to somewhat awkward scrolling, especially on smaller sets.
Does this affect one's ability to 1CC or get high scores?
>>3184372
>Cylindrical black Sonys are closer to curved ones, with a bit less glare
Is the glare level of cylindrical black Sonys closer to flat CRT or curved CRT?
>>3184557
Im pretty sure you can adjust that if you had the service remote
>>3184721
curved.
Wikipedia said that flat CRTs need convergence compensation circuits to be workable. This was invented in the 90s and became common in the 2000s.
So how did Sony make vertically-flat TVs since the 60s?
Is there such a thing as horzonatally flat CRTs? (not counting vertflats rotated)
>>3184743
I think you're confusing projection TVs. Or you're young and never heard of them.
>>3184743
Aperture grille
it is such a shame you cant play ps1 releases in 240p on a ps3.
>>3184607
What settings should I use for Genesis, SNES, and TG16?
>>3184710
Simply a quirk of the screens shape. The picture itself is still the same as it would be on any other set, it's just it'll look a bit weird.
It would be entirely dependent on you as to whether it throws you off personally or not.
>>3184778
I personally use standalone emulators for all of those, so I don't have any personal ones to give you;
Genesis is going to be -primarily- covered by 320x224, but there are exceptions.
SNES is a hodgepodge of resolutions that vary based on game, and have some games that use a vertical resolution of 239p that RA doesn't play with
PCE/TG16 has similar issues.
I haven't been doing a lot of SNES/PCE emulation, and don't really have much reason for it with the Genesis anymore aside from decent SCD stuff(have a Mega Everdrive and faulty Sega CD2), but use Genesis Plus GX for the SMS/MD/SCD/GG stuff, wiiMednafen for PC Engine/TG16 and previously for GBA, and SNES9xGX for SNES, but haven't really screwed around with the last one for a while now.
I have been using a CRT TV as a display for my emulation computer for a few months now.
Suddenly the TV makes loud humming noises and does not stop unless I mute the TV or disconnect the audio cable from the computer.
What causes this and how do i fix it?
>>3184705
Interference between the video signals/5v line and the two audio lines. If the cables are thin and not shielded from each other, the video lines will be outputting EMI which get's picked up by the audio lines and shows up as buzzing and noise. Brighter/White screens amplify this effect as it requires R, G, and B to be at full intensity, and as such more voltage going across the lines. This -shouldn't- be as much of a problem with YPbPr as the only line that should be heavily changing based on screen brightness is Y(Luma), but the way these cables look to be built, you're still carrying RGB out of the system a bit before transcoding and that portion of the cable looks incredibly thin and unshielded.
This is an issue with SCART cables especially, since you have any where from ~10 to a full set of 20/21 wires running through a single cable and shitting out god knows what sort of noise and is a big reason why cheap ass chinese cables are frowned upon and why retro_console_accessories gets so much business from PVM owners.
You either need to shield the fuck out of your cables or separate the audio from the video signals as soon as possible. Whether you do the latter via split cabling or "other means" is up to you.
This is the monster I put together to deal with the terribly heavy buzzing my Saturn cables had.
Frankensteined the shitty SCART cable, faulty VGA->5BNC cable that came along with the Megaview, and a set of RCA cables that had went with a broken tapedeck.
>>3184332
Sima makes a decent one. I forget the model number but I think it was something like 'svs-100'.
Little green box with four switches.
>>3184764
Likely won't play terribly well with games that make heavy use of L2/R2, but a PSP works wonders for that.
Can't confirm outright, but a PSPgo with Component cables and a paired Dualshock3 may even clear up that shoulder button issue.
>>3184660
id rather use HD CRT for movies than 4:3 games
i really love the colors, theres some kind of depth to them
>>3184498
>>3184332
I've heard good things about the Sony SB-V40S and extron s-video switch. I'd go with the former because its Sony and seems more widely available.
>>3182718
Pictured: the novelty-sized bear. SNES controller for scale.
>>3184882
Well, almost losslessly.
This is extremely pedantic, but unless you have an ideal circuit with all parts operating in ideal (not real) form, with no external interference or loss of energy as heat (see the laws of conservation of energy), and with your conversion having ideal characteristics, you will inevitably have some loss.
Not really noticeable though.
Also the same can be said of RGB because as it travels through wire, no matter how well designed, it will inevitably have some imperfections and lose strength or have interference introduced. Just less than in a conversion because there's less stuff in between the console and the screen.
Still, YPbPr is basically as good as RGB. Just a real pain in the ass to use since absolutely nothing natively operates in the YCbCr color space (the console works in RGB or in some cases like the NES YIQ), and the TV has to convert it back to RGB internally anyway since it uses red, green, and blue as primaries to reproduce color. I still don't know why anyone thought YPbPr was a better idea than RGB - besides that it was sort of like an extension of s-video (luminance separated from color information).
>>3185038
DVD movies output YCbCr natively.
>>3185052
DVDs are stored in the YUV (not YCbCr) color space. And I bet european DVD players still output RGB. In any case, as the TV is needing to convert to RGB anyway to actually display the information, there's still no good reason to not encode it in RGB or not to have the player decode it TO RGB.
>>3185058
No matter where I look it says Y'CbCr was used as the standard format for the digital video compression algorithms such as MPEG-2 used for DVDs. Even blurays don't encode their video with RGB either.
thought I might try here though not strickly crt - anyone know why a PC Engine DUO R might show up fine on a pvm but show vertical white lines and even multicolours on the start up screen on a xrgb mini?
pic related
>>3185075
forgot to mention this is using composite as I haven't modded it yet
>>3185069
Hm, ffmpeg always tells me a DVD VOB i feed into it is in YUV 4:2:2.
Either way, as the picture tube doesn't display that way, it's still stupid.
>>3185075
Because scalers are shit.
>>3185078
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Chroma_subsampling
The term Y'UV refers to an analog encoding scheme while Y'CbCr refers to a digital encoding scheme. One difference between the two is that the scale factors on the chroma components (U, V, Cb, and Cr) are different. However, the term YUV is often used erroneously to refer to Y'CbCr encoding. Hence, expressions like "4:2:2 YUV" always refer to 4:2:2 Y'CbCr since there simply is no such thing as 4:x:x in analog encoding (such as YUV).
>>3185081
Mkay.
Still fucking stupid to not use RGB though.
I mean, even the film that movies were made on assumed red, green, and blue primaries (except very early 2-tone technicolor).
When a CRT wears out what elements of the picture degrade?
I know it gets dimmer (lower contrast? White levels?)
It gets convergence issues.
What other problems appear on a CRT TV that is worn out?
What aspects of the image do not degrade and stay as good or bad as it was made in the factory?
>>3185058
>there's still no good reason to not encode it in RGB or not to have the player decode it TO RGB.
With YUV/YCbCr/YPbPr you can give more storage/bandwidth to the luminance/luma component and less to the chroma components. It basically has built-in compression.
Does anyone else here retro their netflix?
>>3185079
Thanks for your helpful response. I worked out it was because I had auto sync switched on.
>>3185112
Alright, but if you aren't using 4:4:4 YCbCr to encode, you are losing quality compared to the source material.
>>3185127
But it saves storage space/bandwith.
>>3184424
>>3184447
>>3185115
>digital video compression
>retro
Try again.
>>3185135
Yes, but as this is only important for the sake of compression on a DVD (not a broadcast format).
And if you are already compromising quality, you should just use s-video as 'good enough'.
We should have RGB inputs and YPbPr was stupid. Also YPvPr predates DVD by years - my 1989 broadcast monitor has it (though the jacks are aligned in R/G/B order, giving it preference).
>>3184447
Looks like it has a slider to adjust color temperature or something? Neat.
Wish I'd picked up that (already assembled) heathkit console TV when I had a chance. But I didn't have room.
>>3185207
>Yes, but as this is only important for the sake of compression on a DVD (not a broadcast format).
It can also save bandwidth as you can allocate less bandwidth to Pb and Pr.
>>3185220
You seem not to realize that decreased bandwidth equals reduced quality.
>>3185226
lol, do you always think that only you know the obvious?
>>3185230
When you prattle about YPbPr bandwidth and how it's not for compression but 'for bandwidth', without actually knowing why bandwidth would be important, yes.
>>3185234
>without actually knowing why bandwidth would be important, yes.
lol, do you always think that no one else knows the very basics?
>>3185241
Only when someone keeps talking about bandwidth without saying why it's important for a local signal between two components that are going through short distances of shielded cable and are not intended for broadcast or long-range transmission.
>>3185245
lol, Do you always think that all use cases are identical to yours?
>>3185254
>consumer DVD player YPbPr on a YPbPr consumer TV is intended for broadcast or <insert exotic crazy half-witted scheme that would never make sense to absolutely any consumer, let alone engineeer here>
Whenever I plug a component cable into the abck of my PVM, the picture quality degrades and flickers / gets super bright. This is me plugging the green component cable in (just the green, nothing else) and when the other 2 are in, the picture quality gets noticeably darker. Power issue maybe?
>>3185261
>I can't imagine anyone using anything else with muh dvds but what I do
>let's throw all compatibility to the trash
>that makes sense to both consumers and engineers
>>3185268
whoops forgot to mention this happens when i plug a component cable into the OUTPUT
>>3185269
what compatibility is being thrown away by compressing a DVD in 4:4:4 YUV or using RGB?
The component inputs were, according to this argument >>3185052 , there for increased DVD quality. I was saying that was bullshit and we should have RGB inputs when it's the simplest possible video signal for a display other than black and white video.
>>3185268
impedance mismatch, more likely.
Make sure you actually have some device connected to the output of the PVM or the line has a 75 Ohm termination.
>>3185280
And if that device has no 75 ohm termination for whatever reason, you can cheat and put a 75 ohm resistor between the inputs and ground.
>>3185287
Hey what's the deal with ohms anyway? Like, what are they, and why do BVMs and some PVMs require terminators, and why specifically 75 of em?
>>3184971
Did you mean this?
http://www.amazon.com/Sony-Composite-Connections-Discontinued-Manufacturer/dp/B000092YPH?ie=UTF8&psc=1&redirect=true&ref_=ox_sc_act_title_1&smid=A3SG9VXR8FTV1B
Will repeatedly plugging and unplugging different consoles wear out the RCA, S-video, and Coaxial jacks on the back of the TV or the plugs of the cables themselves?
>>3185291
All TVs have termination, they just hide it from you.
It's part of impedance matching, which is important for maintaining a good signal quality across devices and lengths of cable. It's part of an inferred pull-down resistance between devices. It can help to reject interference.
Ohms are a measure of resistance - electrical resistance is always measured in ohms
What is the point of switchboxes when you can use splitter cables?
>>3185298
All of those, but exremely slowly as they are designed for repeated insertions and removals.
>>3185209
Hue and Tint m8
>>3185291
Ohm is a unit of resistance and impedance. It's the resistance such that when you apply 1 volt you get 1 ampere of current through the resistor.
75 ohms terminations are used because in video applications the most used transmission lines have an impedance of 75 ohms. 75 ohms were selected as the impedance of transmission lines as a tradeoff between signal attenuation, power capacity and other factors.
>>3185313
I could tell the other one was hue.
'Tint' is rather imprecise as a term.
>>3185304
The possibility of impedance mismatch if you misuse splitter cables.
>>3185315
It's the term which has always been used for Never The Same Color adjustments afaik
>>3185321
'hue' is that. It's a phase adjustment.
'tint' is something else.
>>3185327
ah, NVM, tint = hue apparently.
Guessing it's still a color temperature setting or else a saturation one.
>>3185327
>>3185336
Look, if you stopped chest-puffing and arguing (with yourself for the most part) for five minutes you could easily find out that Hue is analogous to saturation and Tint to color balance.
These are standard adjustments which have been present on NTSC sets since the nineteen fifties.
Jesus...
I have a decent small 20"~ Trinitron.
The picture is amazing, but there seems to be a bit of minor (almost unnoticeable) static in the general background, what would be the setting to fix this
I'm a composite chump btw
>>3185356
I direct you to https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Hue
See hue shift? that's analogous to the phase shift of NTSC video.
>>3185361
On all devices you try to input with? or just one?
Is black actually grey-ish? Could have brightness too high.
![0503160222a[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/KPFZVTP.jpg "0503160222a[1].jpg")
>>3185370
I tried a couple of devices on both input 1 and 2, and it is still so
also, maybe static is not the best descriptive word, more like "noise". No color, just a static esc movement in the background you can really notice it on large areas of a solid color
I fiddled with the brightness, nothing changed
(pic doesn't really show or help)
>>3185429
I guess I misread your post a little bit, no the blacks are quite black
>>3185429
But have you tried multiple consoles/video sources? I didn't mean inputs, really, but that's good to know too.
Maybe a video would help?
>can't get the Extron 109xi to take the video out of the OEV203 and send it off to the Megaview
Well there goes that idea for now. Might have to get a distribution amplifier at some point so I can leave the Megaview unterminated without it blowing out what the PVM is displaying.
Oh well.
Also, this was probably a bad idea.
>>3185458
https://a.pomf.cat/aswvgo.mp4
It doesn't really come out to clearly in the video, but watch the solid colors. When things are complex onscreen there is no way of seeing it.
If this really is due to it just being consumer level , I'm fine with that as it is not to terribly noticable.
>>3185458
Also, all the cables I have used are the ones that came new with the console on release, little to no wear really
>>3184834
I like it
>>3184834
I would fuck that bear.
>>3185582
Standalone emGBA is 480i only.
The mGBA core in Retroarch will support just about anything RA does, including 240p and I would assume a scan-line overlay when displaying at 480p.
>>3185554
disgusting
>>3184359
>composite, Y/C, YPbPr, RGB
>240p, 480p, 720p, 1080i
Fuck you my 20L5 is miles ahead of your LCD.
>>3185816
See >>3184383
I just bought a 27" WEGA at Goodwill. I'm waiting for my dad's car so I can pick it up (not gonna fit in my Prelude). Did I do good?
>>3184353
>+newer so might have less wear
Doesn't matter much. Newer CRT tubes aren't much better than curved 80-90s ones.
>-older so might have more wear
I encountered flat CRT TVs where the tube died while all my 90s Trinitron tubes are still working fine.
>>3184424
>its actually a vacuum tube type TV
The more correct term would be TV with valve tubes.
Every (working) CRT tube has a vacuum.
Other than that it's really nice looking.
>>3184504
>Do you guys ever wish a real authentic CRT technician would bless us with his presence?
I'm actually here almost all the time but nobody seems to really pay attention to me. Also I think my replies sound way too technical for everyone.
>>3184581
>unaware that the chroma subsampling rate of s-video theoretically allows for RGB levels of quality at 240p resolutions
These consoles have a pixel clock between 4-6Mhz, thus the highest frequency without upper sidebands (steep transitions) would be the half with about 2-3Mhz which is a lower frequency than the subcarrier (modulation frequency, 3.57Mhz for NTSC or 4.43Mhz for PAL) but that doesn't matter as the demodulator lowpass filter is usually between 0.6-1Mhz.
In practice it's not easy to tell these apart but as soon there's a sharp bright red edge next to white background then it will be blurrier than true RGB.
Also not all sets display S-Video as sharp as you think.
>>3185058
>And I bet european DVD players still output RGB
Of course they do, component is usually required for progressive output.
>>3185107
This is about the tube:
Red gun usually dies first, then the others.
It can get so unfocused that the focus knob at the flyback/neckboard doesn't do jack shit.
Convergence strips may come lose and move.
>What aspects of the image do not degrade and stay as good or bad as it was made in the factory?
Geometry.
>>3185135
It makes use of the fact that human eyes have less resolution for color than for brightness.
>>3186060
No, it's a problem of the console not generating a decent s-video signal that causes this crappy sharpness.
I will have to check on the red->white transitiin but it seems plausible.
>>3186113
Transition*
>>3185207
Hey, I used to have that whole VHS set.
But my god, you're still such a cunt and an attention whore.
>>3185816
All those abbreviations and color spaces. Not using cvbs instead of composite.
>>3185729
You'd watch
>>3186461
Agreed maybe some earlier tv's are lighter or some have better handles but the kv-32 sony I have is a miserable lump to move around and the 27" is manageable with one small guy. 20-27 is the sweet spot depending on how close you are.
>>3185816
>Fuck you my 20L5 is miles ahead of your LCD.
Oh a CRT fanboy lol.
Shit geometry
Shit sharpness
Shit contrast
Shit screen size
15+ year old display that wont be up to spec.
Convergence probably fucked too.
>>3186473
just hooked up my old amdek out of boredom, works pretty well for a 32 year old monitor.
>>3186540
CRT contrast is the best and only OLED can compete.
Youre probably right about everything else though.
>>3186598
Show me a single CRT tested with an ansi checkerboard pattern that outperformed a LCD. Not an OLED a LCD.
What you CRT fanboys confuse is black levels with contrast ratio. Modern LCD black levels with something like a VA or IPS panel are not bad. Pretty damn good actually.
>>3186540
>a CRT fanboy
43 people in this thread are CRT fanboys
>>3186637
No there are a few like me that just like the look of a CRT. The defects in the image quality. Like scanlines. We aren't so delusional to call it the end all of display tech.
![2d95qv4[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/F4e80O8.jpg "2d95qv4[1].jpg")
>>3186637
57*
>>3186634
pic related
VA panels have darker blacks and a contrast ratio up to 4000:1
IPS only has up to 1200:1 so no do not lump IPS VA and OLED together
But anon i get it
none of this will change your mind because the IPS panel your mummy bought you must be the best right?
>>3186642
Most don't call it the best
It doesn't have the best blacks unless youre in the dark and convergence issues can be frustrating
that being said if you want a flexible resolution without any scaling and if you want good black levels with great colors CRT is for you
With LCD you can get great colors by using IPS but the black levels arent that good because of IPS glow.
WIth VA you can get great black levels but the colors arent as good
>>3186643
>Show me a single CRT tested with an ansi checkerboard pattern that outperformed a LCD
Hey look a dumbass CRT fanboy that ignored the test I asked for.
You'll probably keep ignoring it too.
Yes they perform that badly when tested with the ansi specification. They're horrible.
>>3186667
>that being said if you want a flexible resolution without any scaling and if you want good black levels with great colors CRT is for you
I agree minus the colors. Modern displays are very accurate.
An old consumer grade CRT is not going to reproduce colors that great.
>>3186681
I dont look at checkerboard patterns when im using a CRT so why would those comparisons matter to me?
I only care about comparisons in what i would use the CRT for
>An old consumer grade CRT is not going to reproduce colors that great.
kek youve never used a PC CRT
underage b&
>>3186681
>1000:1 IPS shit is accurate
Get a load of this guy!
>>3186694
>I dont look at checkerboard patterns when im using a CRT so why would those comparisons matter to me?
So ansi is shit becouse it shows objectivily that CRTs are especailly trash when it comes to contrast ratio?
Oh... Ok then.
>kek
>underage b&
The irony.
>>3186702
Look like I said its a pointless discussion with you.
Just know that this thread isn't for you when all we talk about is shit displays
You should get a scaler and enjoy your LCD TVs black levels
Lmao I would like to see you defend it
>>3186697
Can you maybe word what you're arguing about better? Less greentext specifically.
>>3186702
>LOOK AT MY CHERRY PICKED AMD VS NVIDIA DISPLAY TEST
Just stop embarrassing yourself
>>3186710
>Look like I said its a pointless discussion with you.
Yes because objectively I'm right?
Not sure why you hate scalers so much? High quality ones from Micomsoft like the XRGB Mini are pretty great. If you hate LCD so much Sony should be releasing OLED consumer sets within the year or next. You'll have little to bitch about but I'm sure you'll find something.
>>3186715
Please explain with out greentext and memes why a test done to ansi specifications is cherry picking?
>>3186720
fixed resolution
>>3186720
I like OLED
I would love to go LCD but im too picky
If they release fairly priced 24-32" 1080p-1440p OLED panels I would stop using CRTs
Just from what ive seen my CRTs contrast is better than any other LCD I own and I can't stand IPS glow.
When it comes down to it this is all preference and ill use what I prefer regardless.
>>3186732
It's not like display tech uses dynamic resolution or something.
The scalers have settings you pretty much just mess with once. Depends on the game and console though.
>>3186739
>When it comes down to it this is all preference and ill use what I prefer regardless.
That's what it comes down to.
Tests like the ansi tests can help people make the decision. However, if you like a CRT's contrast it's a personal opinion that is not backed up by any repeatable test. At least that people take seriously.
Liking something for its defects can be just as important as its positives.
>>3186572
>Amdek
My father used one for his Atari 800 in the 80s, then he passed it down to me and I used it on my game systems in the 90s, then when my brother had a son in 1999 I passed it down to him and he grew up on it with a SNES and N64 in the 2000s. He still has it set up in his room though I think he's more into PC games these days.
>>3186740
consumer flat tvs scalers are unreliable at best.
>>3186915
Not really. And I wasn't talking about on board scalers.
>>3186634
Check board pattern lol. Show me an LCD displaying a 240p pixel art game that doesn't look like shit. Fucking "checkboard pattern" hahahah
>>3186986
It's "checkerboard". I thought kids still played that game?
>>3186681
The rear projection outperformed it in that test too, you gonna tell me those are good?
>>3187002
That isn't the argument. I don't like projection TVs of any kind for a myriad of reasons.
just rec me some good CRT's ffs
>>3186998
>uneven pixel heights
>>3187074
stop looking for them by the model number.
