Also, games currently waiting for more players:

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=domgeagame - a regular EA game, Worthy heroes 5.5

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=RevengeOfFlatus - massive clusterfuck game on a map what's way too big.

Get in here!

>>127791640
You mean Jotunheim?

>>127800854
Latus is only like 20 provinces per player, that's at least reasonable.

>>127795869
The dragons are going to dive onto you anyways (flying, defender's first turn) so if you have a survivable charm caster you don't need to worry about the range.

>>127801221
It has overlapping cap-rings, and most nations caps are closer in a direct line than a regular map.

>>127801221
Latus only exists so no other map has to settle for being the least balanced.

>>127801221
>>127801328
Don't forget the horrifying amount of preplaced gem sites.
Nations that start on one of the planes are easymode because you'll be getting 50 of whatever a turn by turn 20

I just hope that everyone who joins Latus is fully aware that it's going to end in tears and globalspam instead of throwing a spergfest and/or pussying out the moment someone starts casting Armageddon.

>>127804689
I joined specifically so there isn't a R'lyeh faggot spamming Armageddon.

I plan to experiment with doom-horrors.

>>127805250
Good luck bloodhunting with popkill and no way to hold onto land provinces against literally anyone that wants to take them from you.

>>127806501
Why would I need blood? Wish has all I need.

I didn't mean astral corruption, I meant the Doom Horrors themselves.

>>127806885
Oh, well that'll work. So here's the deal with doom horrors - they have a 50% chance to go rogue every turn, so you need to teleport them onto enemy land as soon as possible. They still leave after a single battle, but depending on the doom horror and gear they can do an insane amount of damage or even take out an enemy army if you teleport it onto them. A fun thing that not everyone knows is that if you put horrors into an empty province (like, you clear the province with a horror attack and then sit the horrors there on the following turn) then they actually stay there since there's no battle, so if you can clear a province out, you might be able to put a doom horror guard on it. Not 100% sure if this works, though.

>>127807409
Well, yeah, I could test this is boring singleplayer, or I could be a mad scientist nation in a multiplayer game.

>>127807831
Godspeed

>>127805250
take a demilich because it is immortal and has no limbs, so it will instadie if the doom horrors attack it and will never have horror marks

http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=RevengeOfFlatus

>>127810878
get it together dave

>>127804689
We're here to quaff bottles of living flame and prevent Armageddon; and we're all out of living flame.

>>127812475
Yeah, good luck invading the Astral Corruption caster who starts in bloodtopia on a separate plane with chokepoints that most nations can't even access.

>>127812694
because only the one guy with the right set up will get an advantageous start in the perfect randomized spot

>>127813492
>He thinks starts are randomized

>>127813558
great, you'll know exactly where to find them

>>127814031
Knowing where they are doesn't help if you literally can't get to them. Even if you do make a beeline for them, you're crippling your expansion to take over wastelands that give blood slaves but little to no income with a non-blood nation. While you're fucking yourself over just to get to fight them, they'll be building up normally and when you do get to them, you'll be fighting them much closer to their cap with a long, thin strip of land which can easily be cut off and make you go from low income to no income.

In other words, you not only fuck yourself over, but you are also at a massive disadvantage in the fight itself.

>>127812694
Wait which nation gets this stupid start?

>>127815619
>Of all the terrible blood nations that I'd never play, which one gets the overpowered start location?

>>127816465
I have no desire to play this clusterfuck map I'm just wondering if this is an actual nation that gets this actual start and bonus, and wondering how bad it can be (read: what nation would possibly get it)

>>127814437
there's 1 wasteland, and a wealth of asteroid shortcuts, around the blood region

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Time to meme.

Guess where I'm going to start.

Guess what I'm going to cast.

>>127817732
Is it Second Sun?

>>127817732
Plane of money and no indies?

Do you need an extension, Shinuyama?

>>127819397
It's only like 20-30% chance to end up there btw. 2 other wasteland planes have equal chances and you can also be droped off on a main world.

>r'lyeh casts armaggedon and utterdark making half the nations mad so they go AI
>chainstales


are you guys done fucking the squids or did he just get bored because he had nothing else to ruin for the other players?

>>127820047
Pan was a furry bitch and undershitter.

>>127820047
he wasn't man enough to wish through AC. What a pussy.

>>127820130
>>127820190
totally agree with both of you

Does anyone have the Lugh pic with "Nothin personnel... kid" ?

The touhou mod guy:
Are you currently just spriting or do you have actual stats of things, or what

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>>127821541

>>127819503
Nah, just got done with a long drive. Taking my turn now.

>>127823894
Why does Lugh get to be so much fucking better than almost every other hero?

>>127825147
He's not better than Tjatse

>>127825147
He's not even very good, other magical diversity heroes are largely better

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>>127825147
In his mythology he is literally the sun god.
Most other heroes are just famous generals or exceptionally talented mages.

>worthy heroes gives LA Agartha an immortal flame corpse with fire magic
It's everything I ever wanted, a reusable suicide bomber!

>>127827816
If only Worm Mages came with Fire magic.

>>127825147
He's not.

He's a bad chassis for SC or even thug duty. TNN has far better rec-anywhere commanders for that.

Pretty much all he gets you is F3 and forgebonus 1. That's nice but many heroes give you way more.

>summon an iron dragon
>costs 30 earth gems, requires research level 9
>send it against a shitty indie army of 15 trogs
>it manages to kill 3 before dying

How the fuck is this an end game unit?

>>127829273
Iron Dragons are specifically good against masses of low damage units. The fact that they fly and have size 6 trample means that they can roll right over guards to start squishing mages.

Trogs are high strength units which are vulnerable to things other than trampling constructs.

>>127830084
They won't really do that because "attack rear" doesn't really distinguish between the mages in the rear and chaff in the rear.

>>127823263
I'm currently playing Sunless Sea. It's kinda boring so I'll go back to modding soon enough.

>http://www.desura.com/games/dominions-4-thrones-of-ascensions/forum/thread/dominions-and-mapzoom

Mod coming that puts snow on maps. Who hyp?

>>127833413
>caring about aesthetics

>>127833970
リサフランク420

I'm a noob, this will be my second game of Dominions online. Am I in for some fun?

>>127834802
no

>>127834802
If you're autistic and test stuff you will win

>>127834802
As someone who played in the first one, it's going to be fun as long as you don't take it seriously. Also, most sides have fixed starts, so start a game as whatever side you wanted to play with the debug mod active and an awake pretender with astral, cast eyes of debug and have a look where each other side is in relation to you.

>>127828469
You can always hand them that artifact that casts Pheonix Pyre.
'Course, it's overpriced as fuck and costs something like 75 fucking gems to make

>>127835220
Who were you?

>>127836148
C'tis, aka someone far from the clusterfuck whom never did anything before it died.

>>127836242
Oh hey, I was Patala. I think I remember trading with my fellow snakefolk.
Good times.

>>127836527
Yeah, though I had little to trade because I went Quad-bless, which was hilarious in that R'yleh's dominion was less toxic than mine in the short run

>>127829273
They're not well priced.

>>127835973
what artifact is that?

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http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=RevengeOfFlatus

Four more players and we'll have every late age nation. Resign yourself to death, join the clusterfuck!

>>127838003
im going to join and immediately start chainstalling

as 4 different nations

>>127837693
Think Iron Dragons would be balanced at 30 gems if they had resistance to all weapons?

Whats the modding command for items to have a stealth bonus? Is it #stealth?

>>127838360

I think that unless they had a literal "I Win" attack, nobody but those noobish enough to not mobilize their mages/use their gems efficiently would ever use them at con 9

And even then, I would still stop at Const 6-8, get something better with my research/mages, and probably win the game while my opponent is beelining for the second of the most over costed/researched troops in the game, shortly behind the fucking tarrasque.

>>127829273
Research Level 9 just isn't really worth it in general.
Poison Golems are expensive, surprisingly squishy for their price, cancerous on the province they're in, and also cost a little more than the ever-useful Lich, and only a little less than a nice Wraith Lord.

Mechanical Militia is a PD global that isn't Haunted Forest and is thus shit, especially for it's price and the point in time you get it.

Siege Golems are nice if you really need a castle dead fast and aren't awful as evo sponges, but honestly there are better ways to spend 20 earth gems. They're dragged down by awful attack and defense as well as not being a commander.

The Juggernaut is the only one I have nice things to say about. It spreads Dominion, doesn't cost too much, is very, very sturdy, and is surprisingly good at murdering things, though it's a bit too expensive to put on the frontlines.

>>127839141
I think you have to #copyitem to get stealth on new items.
Unless something changed.

>>127838360
>>127839727

So to answer your question: fucking no. It is balanced at a much lower research level, or costing significantly less gems. At even 30 gems and with the buff I would still only summon it in single player as a fucking joke unit, much like the Tarrasque.

Stuff at higher levels needs to be worth the mage turns used in researching them. And Iron Dragon is most definitely not worth however many mages however many turns to get to Const 9.

How do you stop a geared up thug (human sized, so usually 20 hp or less) from being easily gibbed by damage spells?

Like orb lightning never seems to miss and will pretty much insta gib a thug unless you stack at llast two shock resist items on him (which you may not have access to due to path restrictions).

>>127840535
One shock resist item should do it v orb lightning (it's 10 damage. Copper plate gives 25 LR), but basically you don't take fragile nerds out to "thug" for that exact reason.

>>127840205
so whats worth getting at level 9?

>>127840694
Not him, but see >>127839808
Construction 9 is generally not worth the research. Most other trees have nice stuff like Wish or fancy globals at the end.

>>127840694

If I expend however many mages that I could've been using to attack/site search/forge/etc just researching up until level 9 on const, I expect something on par with the other level 9 stuff (wish, Gift of Nature's Bounty, Arcane Nexus). I do not want a single iron dragon unit at 30 earth gems. And if I did want that, I'd want it to come with five extra arms, fucking perfect morale, and it to fucking not be a glorified suicide bomber at const 9 and 30 gems that has to be led by a fucking something with magic leadership.

Iron Dragon is a dogshit spell and anybody that casts it has probably lost the game because of how many other better ways there are to use earth gems/a e4f2 mage.

To fix it you need to figure out a commander that is worth spending a couple thousand RP on, plus a couple turns of mages, plus some gems.

>>127839808
>The Juggernaut is the only one I have nice things to say about.
Really? It seems very overpriced to me, even before you consider the specific research level/school.

25 pearls is a lot to pay for what is essentially a temple, especially at lategame when pearls are at a premium.

>>127841854
If it was 20 gems and a commander, would you dig it?

How do you add or change a weapon attack to a piece of armor like the horned helmet?

>>127840672
so nations with only human commanders cant use them as thugs?

>>127835175
>testing
>flatus
Oh boy, you're in for a fun time little salt elemental.

>>127842594
Probably just add both #weapon tags and #armor tags.

>>127841980

No, I do not want it for 20 Earth Gems. I do not want Iron Dragons, Sam I Fucking Am.

Listen, if they were at a lower research level, units, and cheapish, they could be like Demon Knights, and act as fear batteries. But they aren't.

If they were commanders, they'd still need to be lowered in research/gems, and even then would hardly ever be used as a SC/Thug considering their poor item slots

On top of all that, there are just so many fucking uses for earth gems that any nation with a E4f2 dude with access to this spell probably has so much other shit to craft/cast/attack with.

What if you could build an iron dragon factory, which is an immobile unit with summon allies that made an iron dragon every month?

>>127842740
Not usually, no. You want your thugs to have an HP pool or great built in damage mitigation like mist form. That's why things like bane lords are popular.

>>127841926
You can't stack multiple temples in one province, though, so just temples generally results in a dominion stalemate. Massed juggernauts, however, can push dominion hard, which can be important if you're trying to domkill or (more likely) utilize massed immortals.

>>127843163

it would fucking depend on so many things.
Like fucking everything.
Does the nation start with that commander?
is it a commander or a unit?
Can you summon more?

Your idea is so bad that nobody knows what the fuck to do with it.

realtalk: do you even play dominions IV?

>>127843163
Bogus and the power rangers would destroy it almost immediately.

>>127843656
This would be in place of the iron dragon spell. Only commanders can use 'summon ally,' so naturally it would be a commander

>>127843724
I don't think they storm forts
I know you were just saying that because Bogus and co are the heroes that fight against the evil overlords and this is totally a mad scientist unit.

>>127843349

Instead of the summon? No, I am not waiting a bajillion turns when i hit construction 9 to get a massable army.

As a pretender? You know the fuck better.

As a lesser research summon: it would fucking depend.

>>127843656
you should start with the assumption that it modifies the spell that is actually being discussed since that is how normal rebalance ideas work, cleverbot.
This would immediately let you answer
>start with it? no
>commander or unit? well I'm pretty sure units cant freespawn, so there you go
>summon more? sure, it's a spell

>>127842936
first,calm down. You're talking to a bunch of different people spitballing ideas, no need to get angry.
Second, they're flying, highly resilient fear-causing firebreathing tramplers immune to mindhunt and soulslay. They seem to be a decent deal at 20 gems, since most summoned thugs end up costing significantly more after gear.

>>127843656
chill.

>>127844067
not even him but calm down anon

>>127844162
>>127844371
anon is just really, really, really passionate about how a summon in dominions might not be costed correctly.

>>127844583
I, too, am deeply concerned by this which is why I proposed a magic factory.

It'd be a cool spell for a super stalemate situation, and those are probably the only times that you're getting cons 9 anyways.

>>127843349
Pushing dominion is just generally a poor tactic. Because of the defensive advantage enemy dominion gets it's extremely hard to break into enemy dominion, even if they're not actively using priests to keep you out.

If you do for some reason want to push dominion, a better option is to build more temples in other provinces or to get a bunch of stealth priests or heretics (or both). Temples are cheaper and don't require level 9 research while stealthy priests/heretics have a more concentrated effect on enemy dominion than juggernauts, letting you precisely choose provinces to push your dominion into (and also don't need level 9 research).

>>127844162
make the dragons cost fire gems, and we'll talk.

>>127848309
make me baka

>>127844162
Bad slots

>>127848309
This. Fire needs more summons worth a damn.

>>127849508
They don't really need slots.

They have 24 prot, 0 enc, mindless, can't regenerate anyways, have fear, a massive AoE breath weapon, flying trample, and an aoe melee weapon.

What are you going to give them to make them better thugs? I guess maybe a vineshield?

>>127848309
>>127849760
They're iron though.

>>127850063
So are flame corpses, but they still cost fire gems.

>>127844162

No. Yalls ideas are terrible ones. Come up with better ones. Making it a commander is terrible because of its lack of slots and how much rp it takes to get it. Making it a unit is terrible because why would I want to use 30 gems and an EQ caster to summon this. Making it a summon wont ever help because at CONST 9 I expect a lot more than 1 fucking Iron Dragon a turn.

They're okay, but at 30 gems and 9 construction they're pretty much a classic case of "win more"

>>127850063
So?
Even if we pretend Const 9 isnt a secondary school at best for most nations, why isnt that E4 mage being used to EQ/Forge? Why am I spending 30 gems on something that will die to fucking troglodytes than to literally anything else?

>>127850686
>Making it a summon wont ever help because at CONST 9 I expect a lot more than 1 fucking Iron Dragon a turn.
I'm not so sure about this.

>>127850765

you shouldn't be. It's a bad idea. Jesus.

>>127850686
Trogoldytes are 2X 23 strength attack 12 assholes with high morale. Find me 20 gems of summons that they won't shit all over.

Also, chill the fuck out.

>>127843320
how does mist form work anyway

>>127851405
Very well.

>>127842936
well construction 9 needs SOMETHING.

Currently trying this out for Iron dragons :

HP 200
prot 30
slash/pierce/blunt resistant
MR 15
attack/def 15
AP 20
does not heal, immune to afflictions (not sure how to make non healing units heal afflictions when repaired at a lab)
commander

Removed damage penalty on tail sweep, dragon's breath now has an AOE of 3.

>>127851501
the description is vauge at work. so all attacks do 1 hp but at what level will an attack cause it to pop?

>>127851305

fine. How about all the mages you were using to get to construction 9

>>127851305
20 gems turns out to be the exact price of Hall of Statues.
Huh.

>>127851305
Any mage summon

>>127853469
MA Agartha wishes. Unless you're casting that on a 33% enchantment bonus site, the cost is 30 gems.

Mind, 66% of the statues summons would still do it.

>>127851593

Well jeez, seems pretty good. I just hope anyone never uses that dang ol horde of skeletons spells/unraveling/opposition/etc. But that's surely impossible considering I got this at Const9 at the expense of all other schools. Easy/Obvious counters are a non issue at this point of the game because all my opponents are AI/RUSHING FUCKING CONST 9

>>127854013
Isnt trample supposed to counter skeletons at least?

>>127853638
I coulda sworn it was 20.
Maybe I'm just getting rusty.

>>127854013
>you can only hit level 9 research if you rush it
>you need to go for const9 first
A summon doesn't need to make an entire school viable by itself.

Buff the const9 summons and give construction some more level 7/8 spells and the suggested buffs would fit in fine.

>>127854246
10 D2 mages should be able to summon skeletons faster than a dragon kills them, and the dragons are really expensive.

Setting the iron dragons to attack rear might work but I've never done trample against skellyspam so can't say.

>tfw it's so cold in my new house I have to wear gloves in order to computer.
how the hell do people living in cold3 do shit ever?

>>127854916
an aoe 3 dragon's breath can hit the mages, but i dont know if attack rear would be sufficient enough to make the dragon target mages instead of the chaff in the rear.

If i'm not mistaken 20 AP lets you move up to 20 squares a round so that's 20 squares of skeletons being forced to make defence rolls or get gibbed. I don't know if the trample roll is dependant on the dragon's attack skill either.

There's also the problem of mechnical militia being dependant on PD which is shit, but that's a problem on PD in general. Does anyone know if its possible to lower the cost of PD/change the number of commanders it gives?

>trying out vanarus
>vanabogs are 15 hp battle mages

Okay how do you use them as thugs? I don't think mistform works against spells right? And what are the blood paths for, vanarus doesn't seem to hve any way to get a blood economy going?

>>127855184
I'm fairly certain trampling costs more AP than just moving, but not sure how much.

>>127855273
If you've got blood paths, you've got a blood economy. Not a good one, but you have one. Once you get it going you can summon better and more bloodhunters.

>>127855184
>an aoe 3 dragon's breath can hit the mages, but i dont know if attack rear would be sufficient enough to make the dragon target mages instead of the chaff in the rear.
Me neither. As I said, would need someone to test.

>If i'm not mistaken 20 AP lets you move up to 20 squares a round so that's 20 squares of skeletons being forced to make defence rolls or get gibbed.
Trample seems to be limited to 3 squares per turn or something. Tramplers definitely don't do their full AP as trample.

Trample doesn't appear to be dependent on attack skill, manual just says defense against 10.

>>127855273
>Okay how do you use them as thugs?
Mistform brand vineshield.

Are you sure you want to use cap-only StR expensive mages as thugs, though?

>I don't think mistform works against spells right?
Don't move your thugs into provinces with mages.

>vanarus doesn't seem to hve any way to get a blood economy going?
Sages have 33% blood randoms.

>>127855654
Then what are you supposed to use vanabogs for? They are way too expensive for battlemages and have too much rainbow to cast the high level spells.

holy shit I actually used the wiki for something.
to check if demons can be diseased

>>127858013
Yeah, the wiki actually has some worthwhile pages since the last big push. We should do another one.

>>127857358
Well, the D2 and B2 should be easy enough to find uses for.

I'm not sure exactly how to use the A3 and F1 randoms, but I'd probably leave thugging as a last resort.

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>>127857358
>They are way too expensive for battlemages
>but I want to thug them out anyway

Is UR really that shitty as everyone says?

>>127861390
No.

>>127861465
>>127861390
How so?

>>127860383
>Well, the D2 and B2 should be easy enough to find uses for.
Those are not better uses than thugging

>but I'd probably leave thugging as a last resort.
I wouldn't because most of the magic is easily covered by other national mages and having a force of stealthy cloud trapezing high quality thugs is a very welcome addition to a nation.

>have a fort with roads in a waste province
>i have a commander with 2 map moves and no troops in that province
>the game will only allow me to move 1 province away with him

I thought roads were supposed to remove the movement penalty from provinces?

>>127862084
Roads only cancel the movement penalty from forests, not anything else.

>>127862070
Then go ahead and use your expensive, StR, cap-only, 15hp commanders as thugs i you're that dead-set on it.

>>127861784
With high production, Ur can actually expand incredibly well and snowball off their initial expansion to take more and more provinces. Their foreign recruit mages, while too expensive to serve as lab rats, are buff casters on par with the Panii.

>>127860383
At 340 gold and slow to recruit, they are too expensive to waste on spamming skeletons or blood hunting though.

Since they are sacred and priests you could get a good bless and thug them, but they are too squishy for that.

>>127862151
thats weird, the manual just says "negates difficult terrain in province"

>>127862316
what is the minimum hp for a commander to be viable as a thug?

>>127862671
The manual is very useful, but in many cases it's outdated or just plain wrong.

>>127862316
>15hp
>>127862579
>but they are too squishy for that.

Are you people serious? They are elves.

They'll take on any number of PD easily.

They aren't as numerous as vanjarls but they fill the thug role perfectly.

>>127862671
Don't trust the manual for things other than the basic structural mechanics. Only thing you can trust for sure is the wiki, and even then that only applies to facts because there was some guy who went and wrote in his ignorant opinions as "guides" on some of the nation pages.

But since the wiki is quite incomplete, asking here is the next best thing.

>>127862771
I T D E P EN D S

>>127862497
enkindu shaman are better than Panii in every single way except RP and Enc, and Shaman's have a research malus for some fucking reason and slightly better prot for that single added enc.

>>127862084
>>127862671

You cant even build roads in wastelands.

>>127863082
Aren't Pans Sacred

>>127863424
nope.

>>127863068
on what

>>127862819
thugs need to be able to handle more than PD or a cheap mage with no equip and some chaff will kill them with damage spells.

>>127863998
Thugs die to mages, period.
Even tartarian is going to die to a few cheap mages.

>>127864195
>spend dozens of gems gearing up a thug/sc
>it gets killed by a few cheap mages without even needing to use gems

>>127862070
>Those are not better uses than thugging
>>127862579
>too expensive to waste on spamming skeletons or blood hunting though
I mean summoning or forging things. Possibly a few major combat spells like Blood Lust/Skeletal Legion/Wailing Winds on the side.

B2A2 are your only mage who can get storm demons without boosters or empowerment, and you only get D1 outside those cap-only mages.

>>127863998
Not really. Thugs kill DP and smaller, unsupported armies. Depending on the thug they might get lucky against mages as well, but that's not their job. Their job is to take out undefended shit so your armies can do the actual fighting without having to take constant detours to conquer provinces and intercept reinforcements.

SCs should be able to handle more than that, but even SCs will often die to a couple properly prepared mages.

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I don't understand what people mean when they say thug. Is it just lingo for an an artifact equipped, non-spellcasting commander? Also I don't know what SC means although I'm guessing spellcaster.

>>127864789
Thug - cheap with minimal gear, can kill PD or troops without mage support solo.
SC - Super Combatant, expensive with full gear, can kill full army solo.

>>127864789

http://dom4.wikia.com/wiki/Building_thugs_and_SCs

>>127864789
>Is it just lingo for an an artifact equipped
Lord no. Artifacts are way too precious to waste on thugs.

>non-spellcasting commander?
Not necessarily. The most commonly used thug (Bane Lord) is a non-spellcaster, but plenty of popular thugs can cast spells to buff themselves.

A thug is a commander which can, with a minimal amount of equipment (usually just a Vine Shield and a Fire or Frost Brand) take on a virtually limited amount of regular troops, like province defense.

An SC (Super Combatant) is basically a much stronger, more heavily equipped thug that can kill entire armies without the right counter.

The line between a heavy thug and a light SC is very thin, but the main distinction is that a thug is a unit that can get the job done with a minimal gem investment so you don't mind losing them when something goes wrong, while an SC is primarily meant to survive just about anything and cost is less of a concern when equipping them.

Hey Asphodel are you here?

>>127864789
We didn't make a wiki just for plebs like you to not read it.

>star fires are armor negating
>verbose battle log shows that infantry still get to use their protection value against it

Does armor negating just mean the base armor isn't used, but the DRN value is still used?

>>127865797
Yes.

>>127865703
I mean, we kinda did. The wiki is kinda like reading the inspector and testing in that it's something that newer players that actually want to git gud can do, but some people are still going to jump into the game blind and flail about for a bit before realizing that there are other resources available to them.

>>127866106
>The wiki is kinda like reading the inspector
Well those parts are useless and the people adding those big pointless tables are dumb. But we were talking about an actually useful part of the wiki.

>>127866168
>in that it's something that newer players that actually want to git gud can do
I wasn't saying that the wiki just has information form the inspector. I was saying that the wiki is a resource that newer players can use to learn, but some people won't.

You seriously need to work on reading comprehension mate.

Back in dom3, Iron Dragons in some mod (probably CBM, but I played a bunch) were commanders and relatively cheap, and flew, and were tough enough to take on most stuff that wasn't magic, and even tank a bit of magic. They were excellent raiders for the price, and worth bringing to fights. Sure, they got shot up by Mind Hunt and stuff, but they had a solid niche and other const 9 stuff was good for earth nations, too.

>use an army with 70 longbowmen
>they shoot some shitty indie horse tribe cavalry (12 prot)
>each volley kills less than 5 units

What the fuck. Are most ranged units in this game useless or something?

>>127867402
>Use an army with 70 long ranged units
>Fire upon the enemy without being hit back and without your own melee units killing them
>Still kill 5 units per volley

The advantage of ranged units is that they deal damage in addition to the line of melee units. All of the melee units behind the ones fighting are doing nothing, while your ranged units continue to dish out damage. If you have a sufficient mass of ranged units that you can kill enemies with every volley, then you will quickly win the battle.

Also, there are buff spells to make your ranged units better. Anything with any protection (even 12) will mitigate a significant portion of the damage from your bows (longbows should deal 3-4 on average, iirc. I don't feel like mathing the pierce bonus in my head) with crossbows faring a fair bit better. To really win on massed archers, you'll want Wind Guide and Flaming Arrows to supplement them.

Regardless, if their volleys would kill an enemy for each ranged unit, melee would be almost entirely obviated.

>>127867572
70 units killing less than five is kind of pathetic, though. And if you're going to use wind guide and flaming arrows, you should factor in what buffs your opponent could be using.

>>127867572
Yea but it's not exactly hard to make most melee units get in range.3 big blocks, done.

If you use the same amount of gold/resources, a pure melee army would wreck a mixed one and that just makes ranged units too weak.

Sure you can buff them with spells, but your opponent can do the same thing with his melee army.

>trying to make dragon pretenders less shit
>try giving them trample and 20 ap
>attack a level 1 throne
>skeleton spam
>the dragon dies in 3 turns while trampling through the skeletons on the way to the mages

A dragon should not be getting poked to death by skeletons, what the fuck.

>>127867970
Give them recup and put them in the 160 price range.
Bam dragons are viable again, they used to be THE awake expanders but now they're just to pricey to just end up with a ton of afflictions.

>>127867808
>a pure melee army would wreck a mixed one and that just makes ranged units too weak.
But that's not even remotely true.

>>127867728

That's roughly how many would die historically. If we're talking nomadic riders at mid-long range (horse tribe are ranged, so I doubt they were at point blank). Archery was to keep the enemy's head down, not 'get kills'. Wounds force morale checks, not just kills.

If archery did huge damage, then why even bother having melee units. Flaming Arrows and Wind Guide basically do this anyway, to the point that certain nations prioritize getting Arrow Fend up.

>>127867970

4 more points of prot. Maybe increase the length of their weapons for repel purposes (dragons probably got real big claws and teeth, right?), but repel and def get devalued pretty quickly.

Trample is a decent idea, though. Dragons killing things one at a time is bleh. DE gave them a MELEE range breath weapon, too. So they spray flame at things while in melee with them, instead of mysteriously just not using their breath weapon except at range sometimes if you get the scripting right.

>>127868269

>dragons don't just fly above armies and bathe them in flame/ice/poison gas/etc. while being completely safe in the air

Why is this allowed?

>>127868564

So conans can fight dragons sword to claw, obviously. Are you new to mythology.

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>>127867808
>Yea but it's not exactly hard to make most melee units get in range.3 big blocks, done.

This might be the first time that I've seen a player here that could genuinely be improved by playing against the AI

>>127867808
How did Agincourt go for you, Charles D'Albert?

>>127840535

You pick your fights. Thugs/SC are best against troops and mages eat them up, especially if your enemy scripts against them. Thugs/SC are good way to give some extra power to your big army as the enemy mages wil be (hopefully) shooting at your troops instead.

>>127836527
>>127836242
I was mictlan and was raping both Man (who was a steamshitter anyway) and pythium

It was kind of fun, rest in peace

>>127838003
>http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=RevengeOfFlatus
what the hell is left? I don't remember every single nation in the game

I think i might have made dragons too OP.

So i gave them prot 22, length 4 weapons, and made the tail sweep a AOE 2 attack to kill chaff. I also made the dragon breath usable in melee 50% of the time and doubled the AOE.

Removed the damage penalty on the poison breath because 3-4 damage in the first turn isn't going to do anything.

From what i can tell, with a strength of 28, the poison breath was doing 3-4 damage on average for the first tick. Each additional breath will do 3-4 damage for the first tick and i think each tick will stack. An AOE of 16 was wiping out hordes of infantry.

The tail swipe was less impressive. I thought an AOE of 2 would be the target square + each square around it, but nope, it seems to be the target square + one random adjacent square.

I was able to outdps a mage spamming horde of skeletons but that was just one mage and i still ended up with two afflictions. I think i need it to kill skeletons faster and tone down the AOE breath.

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Frogs and bats are very cute together!

>>127875319

Poison doesn't affect skeletons. They also resist ice. A fire dragon vs skelespam would probably be a better test.

Also, dragons vs indies is all well and good, but dragons vs player stuff is probably more important for balance concerns.

And you're kinda saying that it's slightly better than an erf snek. Can kill 1 skelespammer but gets afflictions, kills indies. For 200 points i'd probably just take the erf snek.

If Dragons just had recuperation they would be a lot more useful than they currently are. Right now, every battle with indies is a gamble that your dragon gets muted or feebleminded by some random indie unit with a stick, and your pretender is just a big sack of meat.

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Hey guys, this archer lost both his arms, will he still fire his bow?

>>127877624
Seems like he still will.

>>127875203

Some shitty UW nations?

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>>127877624

No excuses.

>>127877978
C'tis (Whom have a great starting place away from the clusterfuck) and Pan (no clue)

>>127853552
Yeah, bullshit. Find a 20 gem mage summon that can fight trogs

>>127880780
Ten earth elementals or magma children.

Pelagia, this is getting seriously out of hand.

Who /dispel/ here? I have an A5 ready and willing and out of pearls

>>127877117
yea but im trying to make all the dragons chaff-resistant first.

>>127881410
A5? How's that going to help?

I think we need to stage an intervention, he's clearly addicted and needs help.

>>127881246
Those aren't mages. Also, they're national summons.

>>127881738
Anything is possible with enough pearls.

The intervention sounds like a good idea, considering he's such a helpless gem fiend. I'm not sure if I can attend though.

>>127881738
Pretty sure by A5 he meant S5. He's going to run out of slots pretty soon though, and I'm pretty sure the monkfish will be mad if his Eyes get blinded by Pelagia's addiction.

>>127882158
S is for astral, A is for air.

Just every turn send him helpfull messages like "I'm here if you need to talk" or "Are you sure you need another gem-gen?"

My favorite was still him taking Mother Oak from Pan like 2 turns after Pan had cast it.

>>127882317
>>127882253
I'm "dyslexic" retarded

I will do my best. Anyway, if anyone wants to help me buy some "methadone" just HMU with some pearls

>>127880780
some cheap mages spamming skeletons without needing gems

pelagia has now taken the #2 slot for gem income per turn on the scoregraphs.

it only took 3 gemgens. I think he needs to sitesearch better.

>>127883395
How does he even get 3 gemgens without a decent gem income to begin with.

Is anybody else even trying?

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>not empowering your dispeller to S10 as a long term investment

what are you,retarded? it literally saves you dozens of gems in the long run

>>127883657
Maybe if you're dispelling shit every turn.

>>127883395
How do see scoregraph ooga

>>127886538
eyes of god lets me see.

>>127883524
because I did not prioritize enchantment, like he did. I don't know why everyone is surprised by the fact that nexus pelagia is rushing enchantment globals, its literally his entire game plan.
well, that and wish.

>>127887606
Any nations that are looking a bit too strong compared to the others?

>>127881730

Chaff resistance = chaff clearing x prot.

Dragon prot is not 24, so not chaff resistant.

Dragons clear chaff slowly.

DE had great breath weapon that stopped dragons being in melee, prot was a better stat in dom3, and dragons got more prot in DE. So they were great at chaff clearing.

Dragons also have worse magic than snek or bull.. Fire, water, even nature is not as good as E or E/N.

If I was fixing dragons, i'd give them E6 Erf Snek level prot, a 3-square AoE melee breath weapon, either 40 newpathcost or a secondary path (2f1a, 2w1s, 2n1e) a cost reduction, gem generation in their primary flavour, and recuperation (or regen for the nature dragon, since it can cast that spell once you get the research anyway). But i'm of the opinion that Gods should be Godly, and not shit, so.

>>127865342
Yes fellow skeletons

>>127890538
Regeneration does not heal permanent afflictions

>>127865342
Whoops forgot name

>>127890538
>If I was fixing dragons, i'd give them E6 Erf Snek level prot, a 3-square AoE melee breath weapon, either 40 newpathcost or a secondary path (2f1a, 2w1s, 2n1e) a cost reduction, gem generation in their primary flavour, and recuperation (or regen for the nature dragon, since it can cast that spell once you get the research anyway).
So basically you want them to be ridiculously overpowered. Gotcha.

>But i'm of the opinion that Gods should be Godly, and not shit, so.
Pretenders aren't gods, m8. See also: All those human mage pretenders.

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So, how do I stop this crazyness?

Air elementals+iron warriors?

and then have a few commanders with smashers +ring of lightning resist?

>>127893037
Air elementals are pretty reliable if you can get decent numbers of them.

>>127890538
How many of the God chassis live up to being godly? Because your description of the power level you'd want dragons to be seems above what chassis are at the moment, which would be a really fun level to bolster all Gods power to (I, for one, would definitely like to see a mod which did that)

>>127892509
Our border is a bit close to my capital, would you mind backing off a bit, I don't see a reason why fellow undead should worry about eachother.

>>127892480

Regen greatly reduces the chances of getting afflictions in the first place, but you could give it recup + regen, or whatever.

>>127892968

Eh. What I described, 4 skelespammers will kill it. So will MR-negate spam, or elemental damage of not-it's-flavour. Some kinds of sacreds won't, but other kinds will. It still can't fight out of Dom, because limb/head hits.

A human mage with 5A will outperform it with research, to huge extents. A dragon is a combat pretender. It should be good at combat. If it's less good at combat than like, 2 indie mages, that's not really good design.

>>127893272
I'll wreck u m8

>>127893272

Friendly reminder that doing anything but removing skeletons is enabling them.

>>127893392
>What I described, 4 skelespammers will kill it. So will MR-negate spam, or elemental damage of not-it's-flavour.
The same goes for just about every single unit in the game, including all other pretenders.

What you're describing is something that's a much better expander than an Earth Snake (which is already much better than pretty much everything else atm), while also being more mobile, a less shitty combatant in actual fights, with better magic variety and a gemgen on top of it.

You're completely fucking mental if you think that's not OP as fuck.

>>127893249

The bless chassis and forger chassis are okay. They make sacreds badass and then cast globals, or enable your national mages with boosters, both of which is pretty badass. Combat pretenders, though, suck nearly universally. Hugely expensive, and only useful to fight indies mostly. Except for a few like erf snek that can expand well for a reasonable price. And those are often less than useful against enemies, even if inside dominion and before heavy magic use.

DE diversified most chassis, so gods could more easily afford paths if they were primarily casters but also had domsummons if they weren't physically imposing, so there was an argument, albeit minor, for taking them awake. And combat chassis had slightly easier magical access and all were actually good at combat. You could take more pretenders without actively nerfing yourself, and you never felt like your god was a waste of points or useless unless you really screwed up and added pointless paths or something.

>>127867970
Trample gives fatigue equal to encumbrance for every square trampled. Skelespam produces chaff to get trampled forever.
The dragon probably trampled until it passed out, then the skeletons hit it 24 times a turn until the accumulated crits killed it.
Trample isn't really a good trait unless the unit also has 0 enc.

>>127893796
Allowing everyone to do everything isn't diversification. It's pretty much the opposite.

>>127867970
>attack a throne province unsupported
>be surprised when you get wrecked

PEBKAC

>>127893713

Eh, Titan chassis geared and with the right buff spells will walk through all those things. Even quite a bit of skelespam.

And i'm describing something that gets mauled by significant numbers of national units, and not just giants, either. And by spells that are quite low in research. All it does is wreck indie face, and have a good chance of taking level 1 thrones, and taking on poorly set up armies inside it's own dominion. None of which are crazy for something that costs you 350 design points BASE (200, and -150 for being non-dormant). E6 earth snake prot might be a bit much, e4 is probably fine since it has strong melee damage so it won't get mobbed as much by indies.

The Earth Snake is good because earth is a good path, because it's prot + fear means it can expand easily, and it is quite cheap for what you get. I don't think 'handles expansion for you, and then is an earth mage for the rest of the game' is a good baseline for combat pretenders.

>>127893913

Well, for a start, each individual thing slotting into it's own little role is false diversity/complexity, in that it seems complex/diverse but is actually less complex/diverse.

Secondly, something (a pretender god) becoming more diverse meaning it gained skills or abilities outside it's existing skills or abilities is simple english. Misunderstanding that meaning takes a hell of a lot of autism.

>>127893392
>What I described, 4 skelespammers will kill it.
Skellyspam is absurdly efficient at dealing with single powerful units. 4 skellyspammers killing a unit which isn't specifically built to deal with skeletons isn't unusual at all.

The pretender you described has the paths of a titan and the slots of a titan at a similar cost on top of being able to SC with minimal gear.

I wouldn't mind having all pretenders be at that level, but that's far above the current standard for pretender strength.

>>127894113
>Titan chassis geared and with the right buff spells will walk through all those things. Even quite a bit of skelespam.
If you're allowing gear and buffs, so will your dragon.

>>127894113
> I don't think 'handles expansion for you, and then is an earth mage for the rest of the game' is a good baseline for combat pretenders.
Have you ever played Dominions? Serious question, because I don't think you have.

The Earth Snake is one of the most popular pretenders right now for a reason. Turning Dragons into Earth Snakes + free AOW attacks + Flying + Regeneration + gemgen + Titan-tier magic is completely retarded.

You just want a pretender that's the best at everything, which is NOT what pretenders are supposed to be. You want a god-tier expander? There's a pretender for that. You want something with lots of pretender slots and good buff magic so you can play SC? There's a pretender for that. You want a big fat bless and don't much care about combat? There's a pretender for that. You want something that's a better expander than the best expander in the game, while also giving you a solid SC chassis, high survivability and top-tier magic? Fuck off.

>>127894885
>pretender slots
equipment slots*

>>127894470

>paths of a titan and slots of a titan

It has the slots of a titan when it's in human form, where it doesn't have the 100+ hp or size a titan has. 10hp != 150hp. False equivalency.

Most of the time you shouldn't take a titan god. They're most often (nearly only) used as a bless chassis. Judging things by gods people don't take (I was mostly referring to Tartarians, and things like Telkhines and Melqarts) is pretty shitty design. Also, a false equivalency.

>If you're allowing gear and buffs, so will your dragon.

Okay. The things the dragon can buff itself with that make literally any difference are Body Ethereal, Resist Magic/Iron Will, Liquid Body/Temper Flesh, Regen, Soul Vortex. Mistform gets popped by anything that can harm it in the first place (magic, heavy hits). It's base prot means Ironskin/Invuln are largely pointless. Quickness might help, might not. Fire shield likewise - chaff clearing is not something that dragon design has a problem with. Those are all different paths, at varying levels of research, so the dragon probably can put one on itself.

It has a head slot and two misc slots in dragon form. The Titan has full slots in Titan form. The Titan also benefits more from buffs, and likely has better buff paths for it's needs. You can also summon Titan chassis, and have to Wish for Dragons.

With gear and buffs, things favour the Titan (not that people take Titan gods for combat, nor should they). The Dragon's strength, as all combat pretenders' strength, is in the earlygame, before counters to it are online (and nearly every nation has some form of counter to it), and it's further restricted by needing to fight inside friendly dom. Which is huge. Defensive fighting doesn't get you land and is a lot weaker than offensive fighting.

>>127894450
>Well, for a start, each individual thing slotting into it's own little role is false diversity/complexity
What does this have to do with Dominions? There are alternatives for literally every role a pretender could play. Just because the Earth Serpent is undercosted doesn't mean you should just buff everything into oblivion.

>it seems complex/diverse but is actually less complex/diverse
And yet, it's infinitely better than allowing everyone to do everything.

>Secondly, something (a pretender god) becoming more diverse meaning it gained skills or abilities outside it's existing skills or abilities is simple english.
The diversity of the game as a whole takes precendence over the diversity of any single pretender. Maximising the diversity of the pretenders ruins the diversity of the game, because everyone would just pick the one pretender that's the best regardless of what their intended role is.

>Misunderstanding that meaning takes a hell of a lot of autism.
Oh yeah, start accusing people who don't agree with your nonsense of being autistic. That REALLY helps your argument.

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http://www.llamaserver.net/gameinfo.cgi?game=RevengeOfFlatus

Just two more and we're full! C'tis and Pan are left.

>>127895095
>The Dragon's strength, as all combat pretenders' strength, is in the earlygame, before counters to it are online
Exactly. That's it's strength. That's what it's for.

What you don't understand is that's not a problem. It has its role, it doesn't need three other roles. It doesn't need to be better than an Earth Snake plus a Titan. What's next, are you going to complain you can't expand efficiently with an awake Crone?

>>127894885

You don't actually know why people take Earth Serpents, so it's pretty amusing that you're saying I don't play dominions. People take the Earth Serpent because it's cheap and reliably expands. It also provides earth magic on a durable chassis, but it's utility in early wars etc is completely nonexistent. You do not take it against anyone but the scrubbiest scrub and expect it to do anything.

It's also cool that you think it's ideal for the Pretender God of a nation to perform only one function for the nation, for a limited time, and don't know anything about how combat pretenders used to be far more viable (both dormant SCs and awake monsters) in dom3 (and it's many mods), and having ultra-specialized gods is less of a feature and more of a bug. 90% of the Titan chassis are actually irrelevant - there is never a design or build for which they are optimal. There is almost no circumstance where you should ever take any expander other than an earth snake. It is almost cheaper to buy an extra path on the earth snake than to take a different chassis. Combat Pretenders only exist where you're playing against an idiot. I have used them, knowing they sucked, and managed to use them against idiots, while knowing if they know anything at all about the game, that combat pretender is dead.

That Dragon design can do three things. Take out indies, fight extremely early or shitty armies and not just die, and have some midgame and lategame utility via it's paths. It sure as hell is a replacement for most of the Titan chassis - because they fucking SUCK. It doesn't even replace the earth snake - if you want scales more than you want a big flying douche who dies to enemy magic (and there's every chance you do), the earth snake STILL expands for cheaper than the dragon. And just as (or even more) reliably.

>>127895453

>awake crone

So you take awake crones a lot, do you

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>>127895881
>People take the Earth Serpent because it's cheap and reliably expands.
THAT'S MY WHOLE POINT, YOU UNBELIEVABLE RETARD.

It does one thing really well, and that's it. And it's STILL the most popular pretender in the game right now. You want to give a Dragon expansion power that's even better than the Earth Snake on top of also giving it the magic diversity and combat power of a Titan AND YOU SEE NOTHING WRONG WITH THIS. What is even wrong with your brain for you to think like that?

Dragons were relatively popular before the Earth Snake was introduced and started doing what they did for a lot cheaper. I definitely agree that the Earth Snake is underpriced as fuck, but making Dragons literally better than everything else is a completely fucking retarded answer to that.

>m-muh Dom3
In case you weren't aware, we're not talking about Dom3.

>>127895269

Autism is a verb on domg, get over yourself.

>even though you were specifically talking about the abilities of individual pretenders, when you said diversity you meant the whole game's total scope, not those individual pretenders' abilities!

Seems reasonable.

>stop buffing things! Dragons being better than shitty pretenders but not necessarily better than earth snake means it's op

So making dragons competitive with pretenders people actually take is bad. We should be balancing the Dragon to the pretenders that only noobs and people doing some niche strategy take.

Or to pretenders Imprisoned for a bless. That's the standard for awake combat pretenders.

>>127893494
Just because Asphodel has a few monkeys in their undead circus that aren't undead, doesn't mean we share the same ideals.

I'll regard Ashpodel as my little adopted kid brother who has seen the light.

>>127896580
>Dragons being better than shitty pretenders but not necessarily better than earth snake means it's op
If you honestly think this
>>127890538
>If I was fixing dragons, i'd give them E6 Erf Snek level prot, a 3-square AoE melee breath weapon, either 40 newpathcost or a secondary path (2f1a, 2w1s, 2n1e) a cost reduction, gem generation in their primary flavour, and recuperation (or regen for the nature dragon, since it can cast that spell once you get the research anyway).

is "not necessarily better than earth snake", please stop talking. You obviously haven't actually played Dominions. I mean damn. That's some masterwork bastard sword level shit right there.

Just because the Earth Snake is overpowered for its price doesn't mean making everything else better than it is a good idea.

>>127895095
>It has the slots of a titan when it's in human form, where it doesn't have the 100+ hp or size a titan has. 10hp != 150hp. False equivalency.
It can still use those slots for boosters, magic pen, and other useful items. Slots for SC gear are a different matter, for reasons I'll get into in a bit.

>SC potential
It has less slots, yes. However, you've given it a lot of the benefits from those slots built-in.

It gets a better brand with AoE3 breath and AoE1 tail sweep, plus already has extremely good armor at 26 protection. Dragon has flying already, which most chassis need boots to get. It also doesn't have to deal with encumbrance from armor, which reduces the reinvig you need.

You're missing the shield slot and the ability to swap out gear. That's a bit annoying, but it only makes it a little worse than titans. Nearly as good at lategame SC duty as a titan is still very good.

>The Titan also benefits more from buffs, and likely has better buff paths for it's needs
W2S1, N2E1 are fairly standard titan paths. F2A1 aren't great buff paths, but an AoE3 fire attack is very strong.

What kind of titans get better buff paths?

The protection buffs do help titans more, but that's a very small subset of buff spells.

>You can also summon Titan chassis, and have to Wish for Dragons.
It's completely irrelevant when talking about taking it as a pretender, but that's wrong. There are no spells which summon titans.

>>127896502

Did you miss the part where the earth serpent is cheaper? And can have it's prot buffed further than the dragon's, making it better against heavy cav and the like? And awake pretenders don't have the 150 design points of dormant, so you're losing important scales, not dump scales, for every 40 points you spend on them?

Dragons were popular because they were good in dom3 and people liked them. The meta was also for higher domscore so people felt it cost less to give them awe than what it actually cost. They were never good. Bull and the like were far better. Dragons dying in expansion was extremely common.

If the Dragon is worse than the earth serpent and costs more, we're back to 'why take it'. The answer is, as people have realized, 'don't take it'. If you think the earth serpent needs to cost 200 design points or whatever, sure. Then we start looking at the Bull, the Wyrm, that weird scorpion tailed giant griffin thing with 18 base prot, etc. Most of whom are borderline in effectiveness (in many cases, simply taking extra prod scales and a different, dormant god will do better than them), who won't necessarily see play just because the earth serpent is gone, but are STILL better than the dragon as it currently stands. Penny-ante changes like longer claws will not actually change anything for the dragon.

Judging pretenders by other pretenders that no-one takes is bad design. It's just dumb, and not going to change anything.

Really, the only thing dragons really need is recuperation (should be mandatory for expanders anyway) and a slight cost reduction. Bring the cost of the earth snake up to their level as well and Bob's your uncle, the entire problem is solved.

>>127895881
If you have the bulls or the boar, and do not intend to expand underwater (or want to use cold scales) you take those over the snake.

The snake is only so popular because I think literally EVERY nation gets it, whereas the others are more exclusive.

Reminder to watch yourselves around elves.

>>127897308
>Did you miss the part where the earth serpent is cheaper?
You didn't even read my post.

>Dragons were popular because they were good in dom3 and people liked them.
You didn't even play Dominions 4 before the Earth Serpent.

>who won't necessarily see play just because the earth serpent is gone
They're seeing play even WITH the Earth Snake. Hell, even dragons see (limited) play, just look at Xibalba wrecking Mictlan with a dragon.

>but are STILL better than the dragon as it currently stands
That's arguable since flying and an AoE attack adds a lot more than you seem to think, but even if its true, making dragons ridiculously OP is not a valid answer to this.

>Judging pretenders by other pretenders that no-one takes is bad design.
Which "pretenders that no-one takes" would you be referring to here?

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I just want to call this guy out for being awesome. I have never had the class to admit defeat.

Dragons could probably stand to be slightly dropped in cost, but as things stand they're already pretty good.

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So any requests for the song lyrics I post next time I absolutely crush one of my many opponents?

I was thinking Justin Timberlake - Lovestoned

>>127897369
What about giving all pretenders a limited kind of recuperation which is slower than normal (or dependent on dominion strength)?

>>127899680
It can't be done with normal modding. Event modding could theoretically do it though.

>>127899680
I don't think that's such a bad idea. Even regular Recuperation would be acceptable IMO. It's not something taht gives any kind of straight-up advantage and won't suddenly turn regular pretenders into guys you want to have taking hits, but it does keep the pretenders from being an unusable mess after getting hit a couple times. It would remove a bit of the risk from options like casting Eyes of God and Mind Hunting though.

>>127898023

A lot of Titan and Monster chassis never see play except as a curiosity. A lot of rainbow and titan chassis get picked when they shouldn't. Some immobiles rarely or never see use (the idols etc). Even when people pick a Wyrm or whatever, it's generally not a good choice on their part. Non-bless Titans and rainbows used for any other purpose other than making boosters for a path that the nation gets natively but not high enough to open up a buff spell like Flaming Arrows or Fog Warriors is generally a waste of design points.

If you want to be reductive and say that PGs should only be useful for one limited thing, you end up with a 'best at' for each of those single roles, and then a howling wasteland of suboptimal chassis. If you instead have multirole chassis, like DE and to a lesser extent CBM had, it makes more chassis viable. If Great White Bull costs roughly the same as an Earth Serpent, so what? If Earth Serpent is cheaper but only expands, but great white bull has three paths that increase it's midgame utility while also potentially being a booster forger, but costs more, and there's a Titan that is cheaper than the bull, you end up with actual choices to make.

For the point cost of a dragon, giving it the ability to reliably kill indies and also do as much magic as a titan with less good path choices (when you can't set it dormant like a titan, if you want to use it's expander utility, and F, W, or N aren't ideal - E/S or A are generally the booster paths people want) is not crazy at all compared to the things people actually take and the uses they are put to. Earth Serpent is cheaper, expands reliably, and has 2E. Titans you can choose the flavour you want, and get 2 in the path you want to boost. Blah blah. Saying the Wyrm, a pretender that gets picked maybe one game in three by one nation, should be competitive with the Dragon, is saying the Dragon should suck.