help me understand this "visual novels are good meme."
>"gameplay" revolves around clicking chat boxes and looking at sameface animu static images
literally what?? how the fuck do you faggots find that entertaining? tell meeeeeeeeee!!
They aren't games, they're novels with visuals.
It's like a novel with pictures and sound
>>342573198
This is the generation of kids who can't even read a book that doesn't have pictures, what the fuck did you expect.
If a visual novel has win and fail states, is it technically a game?
Who ever said visual novels are good? They're failures as games, they're failures as literature, and they're failures as porn.
Ever read a book?
I bet most of the people shitting on VNs for not being as good as books don't actually read books all that often outside of required coursework.
Most VNs are ass the same way most actual books are ass
The only ones I've actually enjoyed were Muv Luv Alternative, Steins;Gate, and Monster Girl Quest
>>342573198
I know this might come as a surprise OP, but there are these crazy things calleddifferent tastesandopinions are subjective
>>342573198
It makes people feel like they actually have friends.
>>342573198
play muv-luv
>I judge different genres by the same metric
Found the retard.
Visual novels arnt games
Of you don't recall or are a newfag, the cripple VN was exiled from /a/, /v/, and /jp/
>>342575375
>/ksg/'s on thread 3065
How do autists do it?
>>342573198
people play them for the story
>Danganronpa, Ace Attorney, Ghost Trick and Zero Escape
>not entertaining
fuck you
>>342575680
No life. Not the Xbox live insult type, actual no lives
>/v/ will defend their japanese visual novels to death than turn around and shit on Telltale games and Naughty Dog
>>342573198
They aren't games. They're just >>342573327
Anyone who argues otherwise is an idiot. VNs are basically their own genre/sub-genre of games.But they can be most CERTAINLY entertaining. Any idiot coming into a VN for "gameplay" is a fool in the first place. The damn name gives it away "VISUAL, NOVEL".
>>342573278
>>342573327
Correction, they're really shitty YA-fiction with smut.
>>342576880
What's some good fiction then?
I can't get into VNs at all. Every time I try one it's like I have to wade through hours of the protagonist going about the most mundane shit or a massive exposition dump before even the slightest interesting thing happens. Then I just go watch anime or read manga because it's the same shit anyway besides changing the story with choices.
>>342576359
Danganronpa was a pain to play
>>342576778
Unlike Telltale games, most visual novels have radical changes depending on what you do in the story. Compare the Walking Dead, which has a grand total of one route and one ending, with Tsukihime, which has five routes and ten endings.
>>342573198
They're books 2.0, dumbass.
>>342577007
Play Saya no Uta. Trust me, anon.
>>342577007
though the ones >>342576359 listed are the only kind I can get into, probably because they have more video game elements than normal
>>342577007
I'd suggest either Demonbane or Dengeki Stryker if that's your main problem. Demonbane has the main character being chased by a machinegun guitar-wielding mad scientist within the first five minutes.
>>342576778
Because visual novels don't pretend their something there not.
>>342577216
Is Dengeki Stryker good? I couldn't get past the intro.
>>342577128
I thought that was just a guy fucking a monster he thought was a loli then something bad happens
>>342577216
Did Dr. West really show up THAT early? I could have sworn there was more of the usual establishing characters and worldbuilding stuff/the protagonist barely doing anything before you get to him, or anything else for that matter.
fuck, its been a while.
>>342573436
yes
>>342573198
Have you ever read a "choose your own adventure" book? Its like that.
If you haven't done that before, have you ever read a book? Its basically like that but you get to alter the story based on choices made throughout the read.
If you haven't done that before I suggest starting with green eggs and ham, its good read.
>>342577398
>>342577487
Its really good. If the intro bothers you, just skip through it - all that happens is a kid gets his ass kicked then trades his soul to a shady man in exchange for becoming his favorite manga hero. And of course his personality gets overwritten by the characters when this happens.
>>342577650
Oh right, I forgot that Kurou visits Leica before he meets Al. First ten-fifteen minutes, then? He does show up pretty early after all.
>>342577830
Ok anon, explain kinetic novels.
why is this vn crap spreading to steam? literal cancer
>>342577883
Yes Mr. Wright?
>>342575680
KS was good
>>342578087
Ace Attorney Visual Novels are marketed by both Capcom and Nintendo as videogames.
In fact the initial reasoning of why they didn't get a localization was that the Western market didn't buy VNs, much less for the Game Boy Advance.
They're animated light novels that last FAR longer than they should. Awful pacing that puts the average anime to shame.
>>342578035
For the same reason that movies and shit are on steam now.CASHMONEY
In any case, boohoo, nigga.
>>342577398
>GUIZ YOU CAN'T TALK ABOUT TELLTALE ON /V/ CAUSE THEY ARENT GAMES
>visual novels aren't games either
>WELL ITS OK TO DISCUSS THEN CAUSE THEY DON'T PRETEND TO BE VIDEO GAMES
>>342578128
DELETE THIS
>>342576778
VNs don't pretend to be games or sell on graphics
they also USUALLY (read: not very often) have good, thought out stories
>>342578325
Why are you listening to shitposters anyway?
do you guys understand why most VNs are good
it's because they're unpopular as a medium
like sure you've got a bunch of tumblr shitheads out there writing generic yaoi bullshit and terribly composed "dramatic" stories, all with disgusting art and mediocre music, but VNs simply aren't popular
so a lot of them that come out have a lot of passion put into them, a lot of attention to detail and genuine belief in what the creator wants to express, because they have to be good from both a sales standpoint and a personal standpoint
when you compare them to stuff like shitty romance novels, which are churned out by the dozens every month, the level of quality for many VNs is much higher because romance novels have far lower standards they need to meet for the bare minimum
it's just a shame that most of them remain only in japanese and we're left with absolutely abhorrent attempts at storytelling
>>342578596
There is nothing but shitposters
>>342578840
>it's because they're unpopular as a medium
No its because we only get the ones worth translating.
>>342573198
They are CYOA books just replace adventure with waifus
>>342573198
Mostly the dating sim aspects. Few people would play a VN without cute girls. Erotic elements (I.E. sex scenes) don't even have to be present for people to enjoy as long as there are "conquest" elements. Galge is the closest thing to interaction with 2D girls there is.
>>342578840
>why most VNs are good
but they aren't
>>342578926
Worth translating to the LCD.
>>342578926
We only get ones that are easy to translate
VN are just as much games as adventure games are
>>342578128
>)
POST MORE OF THIS
>>342580196
He's right you know. The amount of absolutely mediocre or straight up BAD eroge would astound you. In contrast we only get the really famous, quality titles, and are spared from some of the worse ones. Sure there are good titles that remain untranslated to this day, but they're a fraction of the whole.
>>342580343
At least half of the translated vns are bad or medicore.
>>342576971
Infinite Jest, Ulysses, the list could go on...
>>342580490
And at least 99.5% of the untranslated vns are bad or mediocre
>>342580490
So? Even the best VN is laughable compared to actual literature. His point stands, the only ones worth reading are the more popular ones that have mostly been translated. Barring a handful of titles with complex kanji or whatever, nobody wants to slog through the gargantuan amount of sludge Japan has produced.
>>342573198
It depends on if the stories something good + If it's my fetish
VN's are like an upgrade of choose your own adventure books with added sex scenes.
>>342573198
The good ones are CYOA books except with music and shit
For obvious reasons ones you get are short ones with three choices total from which two lead to two page long ending
>>342577007
same
story is the same shit i get from light novels, mangas, or anime
if i want porn i read or watch hentai
>>342577034
Kohaku has only one ending
>>342577135
Back in my day, we called those "adventure games." There's puzzled to solve and shit. Now every game is a "VN."
Probably just a matter of time before RPGs are called "VNs with combat."
>>342573691
this
>>342573198
Have you ever read a "Choose Your Own Adventure" book? Most VNs have that kind of interaction, where you make choices and see where the story goes. That's the "gameplay", not clicking through the dialogue.
VNs are only really referred to as games because they show up on game consoles.
>>342583076
Most JRPGs fit that nowadays.
>>342573691
Or they shit on them for being the most cliched and boring tripe that's no better than the shit a 13 year old on fanfiction.net shits out
>>342583076
Yeah, you didn't play any of those didn't you?
Visual Novels are older than you.
>>342573198
99.99% of Visual Novels are shit*.
The other 0.01% have interesting stories and/or choices to make in the story that takes advantage of the visual novel format (usually some multiple playthrough memory thing going on).
*The 99.99% also includes all of the porn.
I filtered out those shits from my recommendation queue. Fucking cancer.
It's for people who want a story, or to simulate dating cute girls.
>>342573198
>3D, fully animated, story-focused "game": Crap, pretentious, SJW garbage.
>2D, still image, story-focused "game"with some drawings of boobs in it: 10/10, incredible story, absolute must play.
The visuals, sound, and waifus compensate for the shitty writing.
>>342573198
story
>>342583623
>visuals, sound, and waifus
but as many people have said before, anime exists already
>>342573198
I prefer interactive tv like asuras wrath
>>342573198
>willing to divulge its secrets
That's not what that means. You can't just choose random, smart-sounding words, slap them on a Dark Souls backgrounds, and pretend it's "deep" like the game's lore allegedly is.
"To divulge" means to reveal something internal or make it known - i.e. speak a fragment of your knowledge. So:
>I divulged my secrets to the bonfire, yet it remained defiantly unmoved.
or,
>I divulged the bonfire's secret to the Crestfallen Knight (since I was on NG+ and knew the its secret already).
The more you know, Souls fans.
>>342573691
I've been trying to read Discworld on my kindle but it just randomly stops at some pages no matter what i do, i got through feet of clay though, more funny than i thought they'd be.And that big bang gag in the first book was fucking ace
I've watched a couple of animes (japanese cartoons) that are based on visual novels and some of them were pretty good.
Visual novels are games. They're only on game platforms, they run on game engines, they're interactive (Limited but there is choice is the majority of VNs). A novel is just read and that's it, I don't get to pick my ending or the girl I will fuck or how the story progresses in a real novel. That is a gaming exclusive feature.
>>342573198
>"gameplay" revolves around clicking chat boxes and looking at sameface animu static images
Not in every case, there is also VNs with some type of gameplay. Personaly, I enjoy gameplay ones much more than standard VNs
>>342583578
Porn gets a free pass because it makes my pee-pee feel good. You can deal with it, or you can suck my cock, dude.
>>342580618
>Infinite Jest
talent-less
Unlike RPGs the decisions actually matter and drastically changes the plot.
>>342573198
>help me understand this "visual novels are good meme."
Learn Japanese, play the best ones, enjoy them.
What else is there to it? Making bait threads on an EOP imageboard certainly won't help you.
>>342580618
nice memes kiddo! :^)
>>342583434
Have you ever read a book? Do you think books aren't cliche? 99% of fiction books that have come out in the past 10 years are no better than VNs.
>>342583798
as long as it's shit with 10 seconds of gameplay and 50 hours of reading some blank slate's internal monologues
>>342573691
I read 1-3 books a month (got through David Edding's Malloreon last month, just finished Trudi Canavan's The Traitor Spy yesterday, shit was so cash), and I can tell you with full confidence VN writing is largely shit.
This isn't due to the authors, however. It's primarily, and I think very sadly, due to translators. Translators are often "merely" language speakers and don't know too much about creative writing. A Japanese VN can be translated (or localised) in such a way that it reads like a proper story, but most of the time the translation is either riddled with errors (SLAs abound) or transcribed from the original language with no stylistic devices applied to the resultant text.
>>342580618
>Ulysses
>not Finnegan's Wake
What's wrong? Too complex for your little ape brain?
>>342580883
Except CYOA books tend to have more interactions than VNs.
>>342583928
No shit. Books at least have plenty of gold compared to the few nuggets that comes from visual novels in the midst of rehashed settings, plots, and archetypes.
>>342584175
Choose Your Own Adventure Books are often just a bunch of almost instant Dead Ends and a handful of actual routes that lead to anything. VN's at least have the capacity to make most choices carry on for some long term consequences and conditional outcomes.
>>342584175
Depends on the VN.
For example, Fate/Stay Night has hundreds of different endings, most of which are you dying, just like a CYOA book.
>>342584334
>at least have the capacity to make most choices carry on for some long term consequences and conditional outcomes.
On par with the average Telltale or Bioware adventure.
>>342584314
>rehashed settings, plots, and archetypes.
You say that like it's unique to Visual Novels, but it's not. Books suffer from that just as much, as does every medium.
You're just only exposed to the visual novels that get translated.
>>342573198
Why are VNs so fucking verbose?
>>342584419
And I'm willing to hear about these amazing ones that aren't.
>>342584514
There is the one where the guy turns into panties
and molests girls
>>342584501
Most don't have editors?
Japanese don't know when to shut the fuck up?
"More words = more content = more VALUE!"?
>>342584514
Well there's [That One Japanese VN That Will Never Get Translated So You Will Never Be Able to Read It and Call Me Out On My Bullshit] as well as the sequel, [This One Isn't Getting Translated Either, So I Win This Argument].
VN's at least have image sets.
Stuff like CoC would really be better with it, instead of paragraphs of how you fisted a goblin.
>>342584580
I see it a lot in western VNs as well, so it's not a Jap exclusive thing.
>>342584385
>On par with the average Telltale or Bioware adventure.
Uh huh.
>>342584501
Because the writers are paid per kilobyte written and because the standard price for an eroge is 8800 yen and buyers expect enough content for that price.
>>342584580
EOP guesswork randomly being somewhat correct.
>>342584514
http://erogamescape.dyndns.org/~ap2/ero/toukei_kaiseki/rireki_junni_median.php#list_header
Scroll down to リスト.
>>342584514
I can't tell you about any that aren't, but Muvluv Alternative is a fantastic Visual Novel. But if you're not willing to give it a chance by sticking the first two games out, then there's no point. Just stick to your print media.
>>342578238
Pheonix Wright has puzzles. Puzzles are games.
>>342573436
Pretty much.
It could be something as simple as one decision leading to a bad ending or many decisions leading to different endings.
>>342584658
I still need to finish that game someday.
>>342584724
So if a CYOA book has puzzles, it's a game too?
>>342584608
Why don't you play games with proper visuals then, senpai?
>>342584782
I will when I get better internet.
It took 3 days to download a 20 GB game.
>>342584687
Sumika kills any desire for anyone to stick through the early games.
>>342584608
Character customization in CoC is too complex for that. You'd have to draw shitton of images just for one scene.
>>342584780
>he hasn't played a Gamebook
Lmaoing at your life senpai.
>>342584687
No, what makes it good? I genuinely want to know. All I know about Muvluv is that the first two were typical highschool anime scifi and then the next one pulls a genre shift. If shock is all there is then I wont bother.
>>342583798
>I enjoy gameplay ones much more than standard VNs
Same, heck I genuinely preferred their gameplay to some of the actual jrpgs or rpgs in general.
>>342584841
Sounds like my life until 2 years ago. I used to let my tablet sit and download overnight. I feel ya.
>>342584907
Excellent world-building, characters that you actually care about, and good character development (a main character who you will fucking hate in the beginning and love by the end).
>>342584982
is cm3d2 story translated now?
>>342584658
are there any more like that or is this just the one of few tokens that people love to post
>>342585095
>>342576359
Those games are not pure VN.
Thy have player interactions and game play.
Thy are actually more like adventure games that have VN elements or vice versa.
But as far as Pure VN go id rather just watch the anime version.
>>342585095
VLR is the only other game that comes to mind that has branches that complex.
>>342573198
You ever read a book?
Basicly its a book with sound and some visuals that are simple and enjoyable to look at
Sometimes you just want a story and you dont want to have to try and imagine what the environments and shit look like
And I have only played Katawa and Fate, and Dangarompa if that counts
Currently going through Vallhala and Stiens gateStiens gate just keeps going and has to much detail
>>342585095
http://www.neoneko.net/downloads/Flowchart.pdf
>>342585081
No. Tsundere's scenes are mostly TL'd, but not other personalities', and KISS adding in more and more bullshit with each update doesn't help. You get English one moment and runes in the next. Playing with VNR is a pain.
At least I'm used to playing H-games with machine translations, so I don't mind runes when they appear consistently.
>>342584724
>puzzles are games
Oh, guess Darksiders 2 is a game now.
>>342584907
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=w5JICa_ZxBk
>>342584782
what gaem
>>342585391
This is no place to horse around.
>>342585391
What was it before?
>>342585224
I still find It funny I somehow missed festival until after I finished the game
>>342585474
Artificial Girl 3
>>342584782
>>342585593
How the fuck does a game get models like this?
I want to make my own game
>>342585973
It's a mystery.
>>342585973
learn blender, you'll be popping out such models in no time.
>>342586108
>in no time
A small investment of at least a decade.
>>342586142
There's youtube vids dedicated to making anime shit In blender, they hold your hands through the entire thing.
It's really not as hard as folks think, youtube Is the best teacher
Whenever it gets to the erotic scenes I usually don't pay attention because the writing is nothing more than filler at those points.
>>342573198
I only like VNs with gameplay to them, like Ace Attorney and the like.
>>342580618
Fuck off pretentious faggot, you know nothing about VNs so don't run you pleb mouth.
>>342586850
You're right.
Even shitfests like Hunger games have more complex characters than the average VN
>>342586739
Because half the time those scenes are written by virgins who have no idea how to describe sex.
>>342586739
Erotic scenes usually have two whole images though. You need that terrible filler otherwise you'll have reached the end before you even get hard.
I'd ask "why do people bother with this" but I know the answer. We all know the answer.
>>342584514
Albatross, for example
>>342587023To avoid this, I try writing smut about shit that's either incredibly awkward or not erotic at all. It's a much more entertaining way to go about it.
I remembered reading something about a vn, had to do with the aliens that had basically taken over most of the world and it followed some mech pilots, who had the average lifespan of a few minutes at most
Maybe a shitty description, but dies anyone know what I'm talking about?
>>342587232
I bet you name-dropped it without knowing anything at all about it or this writer, Mareni, you damn EOP.
You're all like monkeys, just repeating shit from Moogy's Twitter.
>>342587824
>EOP
>Moogy's Twitter
>>342573327
>>342576851
What about VNs like Little Busters who are full of minigames?
>>342587892
Yeah, I'm saying you're a shitty EOP that parrots Moogy.
>>342588017
Jesus, so you're even more clueless that I though. Why do you put Albatross in your clueless mouth?
>>342573198
Do you have rules and at least the illusion of choice?
Bam, it's a game.
Is it done through some form of digital media with images?
Bam, it's a video game.
This isn't hard people.
>>342588082
>>342573198
everyone played katawa shoujo thought it was good (it's decent) and thought "hey I guess all other visual novels are good too" (they're not)
>>342588125
>Do you have rules and at least the illusion of choice?
>Bam, it's a game
no, it's "interective X". not everything that is interective is a game
VNs aren't games, they're accepted here because they need a place on 4chan but otherwise they're not games
>>342588425
Is gone homo a game?
>>342588425
>interactive X
No, that would be just the illusion of choice part.
That's why I said it must have rules.
Not even necissarily a win/loss state. Just a general beginning and end with confinements on the interaction.
Some visual novels are just straight stories with no choices, those aren't games.
By giving the player choices at set moments, you've made it into a game. An absurdly simple game but a game nonetheless.
>>342588586
Same to this, though there are even more rules/illusion of choice in a walking simulator.
Though they all just come down to "do you want this extra info?" really.
The real question is, which is a better game?
>The one where you literally have 3 choices but those choices drastically change the story being told in 6 different ways
or
>The one where you have tons of choices to explore, but none of them change the game at all.
>>342588586
to me? no
but it's accepted as one because at least it has an environment you can explore.
to me it's just an interective story, like VRs, if there's no risk/reward, win/lose factor or skill involved it's not a game
>>342573198
>visual
>novel
Notice that neither part mentions "game" ?
Visual novels can have games in them, but people like visual novels because of the story they tell. Y'know, like a non-visual novel, but like, with visuals.
I'll kill someone if I have to play another one of Danganronpa's minigames but boy did I love the story and characters.
>>342588770
>The real question is, which is a better game?
The one with better gameplay, you retarded piece of shit.
>>342588770
>By giving the player choices at set moments, you've made it into a game
choices doesn't matter if the outcome is the same or if there are no consequences of picking a certain path. if you can't fail at it it's not a game
>>342588952
Danganronpa 1 was way too easy, but Danganronpa 2 included some really annoying minigames like the skating or this shit here.
I wonder if they will find a decent balance in later games
![latest[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/aoWzgHj.jpg "latest[1].jpg")
>>342588789
>>342589082
>if you can't fail at it it's not a game
>win/lose factor
Except you can. I'd say "win" is a requirement, but not loss. There has to be an end, but you don't actually need the fail state even.
Case in point, Kirby Epic Yarn. You can't die, you just lose score.
Likewise, visual novels that actually have choices usually result in you losing out on information if you make the wrong choice.
And many of them have bad ends, which are essentially more of a lose factor than even Kirby's Epic Yarn has.
If the choices literally don't change anything, then sure, it's not a game. A lot of visual novels aren't games because of this. But most of them do have divergent story paths and are indeed games because of that.
>>342589082
If you get a bad end you fail
Which is more of a game, or do you rate them all identically?
>>342588770
I personally like ones where you got few routes and bunchload of somewhat interesting or fun bad ends that can reveal info you wouldn't get until some time later or not at all otherwise
>>342589427
no, a bad ending is a bad ending, not a game over.
you don't "fail" anything by getting a bad ending, you still reached the end
>>342589574
Steins gate has more outcomes based on decisions rather than linear paths like most "interactive movies" and QTEs are press or fail and die shit too often.
![hqdefault[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/0h8Os8f.jpg "hqdefault[1].jpg")
>>342589730
A bad ending is the exact same thing as a game over.
Your game has ended, you did not reach the best outcome, try again.
Pretty sure people don't play Long Live the Queen and then throw up their hands after she's stabbed the first time thinking "Well, I did it, I got to the end"
>>342589574
Depends on the VN, it could have a lot of choices or 0.
I'd say, in increasing "game" value:
>0 choice VN
>Interactive Movie
>QTE based game
>Lots of choice VN
>>342589350
>Case in point, Kirby Epic Yarn
it has actual gameplay, skill is required even if there's no death, if you're awful you go nowhere which is a lot more than just clicking text boxes and hoping your character ends with the right waifu
>>342590384
>just clicking text boxes and hoping your character ends with the right waifu
I find it strange that just trying to not be asshole leads to Ciel route.
You literally need to avoid her if you want to be on Arc route.
Katawa Shoujo was a mistake.
>>342589574
>>342589934
Personally I wouldn't call S;G a game; however I would call Heavy Rain a game.
