You know how I know this is a good movie?
Because even in spite of the hype being passed and having two days of criticisms, my own included, the more I think about the movie the more I like it. Normally given time to reflect it's easier to count up the flaws, but I immediately counted them up and actually feel better about the movie now. I'm remembering more of the good than the bad. This movie was a good Star Wars movie.
The movie banks on nostalgia a little too much but it's really a rock solid Star Wars flick. There's a TON going on with the characters, compared to the prequels where absolutely nothing is going on whatsoever and the plot is told to us through board meetings and exposition
first movie I thought "wow, I cant wait to go and see that again later with other people" in like 4 years
>>63858345
I agree about the nostalgia thing. They'll drop that for sure in the next few movies, they just wanted to use it to try and hook in fans of TOT
Yeah, the more I read and discuss it the more I realize how much I like it. My complaints are minor.
>>63858303
>hype being passed
>two days
You stupid or something?
>>63858345
>>63858401
I agree, but the fanservice and callbacks are used with a clear understanding of how they worked in full context of the original films. The sountrack, placing within the overall arc of the stories, character dynamics, all echo the original bits in meaningful ways. The movie was pretty predictable, but the characters are likeable, the action scenes are great, and I'm excited to see where the movies go now that the training wheels are off.
>>63858303
Honestly this.
Despite all its flaws it's still a very enjoyable movie. I haven't seen it again because I don't feel like forking out more cash, but as soon as there's a torrent out I'm going to watch it straight away.
>>63858392
Last time I thought that was when I sawAnt-Man, but this is definitely better than that experience too.
You want to know how I know its a bad movie and not Star Wars at all?
The Good
-Return of Han and Chewie. I could tell that Lawrence Kasden wrote the bulk of the dialogue in the freighter sequence re-introducing Han and Chewbacca. This was the best part of the entire movie by far. It was playful and fun with smugglers and monsters, scum and villainy.
-Maz Kanata's castle. The scene started out great, a worthy successor to Mos Eisley cantina and Jabba's Palace. I don't recall a scene like this in the prequels with a bunch of aliens hanging out in a bar-type setting, but it's a highlight of Star Wars and while this is not quite on their level it's still good.
-Seeing the broken down AT-AT Rey called home.
The Bad
-Whiny Kylo Ren. Clearly he inherited his temper tantrums from his granddaddy. God it was stupid watching him slam his lightsaber down like an angry child with a baseball bat destroying things because he didn't get a cookie. And they did the scene not once, but twice. He is not an interesting villain. The setup for his character is poor (but I'll get to that later) and his motivation is preposterous. Why did he turn to the Dark Side? Unexplained. I'm guessing Luke told him about Anakin's fall and that's who the kid decided he wanted to emulate even though his living family (Uncle Luke, Mommy Leia, and Poppa Han) triumphed over Vader and the Emperor and thus you'd think they provide a better example, but hey, this trilogy apparently needed to copy the original by having a father-son, light/dark divide and it would have really killed them to create a new character for that to happen.
>cont
>>63858303
you are just a shill i heard you get paid 2 cents by post
stack more posts for that dollar boy
>>63858513
-Starkiller Base. I have a lot of gripes about this wretchedly inane plot point but I will put them all here under a single bullet. First, I get that if you're going to make a new Death Star it has to be more powerful than the original (of course there is always the question of why you need a new Death Star, but I digress…), but how does it make any sense that instead of blowing up planets it blows up entire solar systems? The whole point of these weapons, as explained by Tarkin, is to elicit fear to keep systems in line. Why is that any scarier if it can blow up several planets instead of one planet? It's killing you either way. Second, the Starkiller apparently uses a hyperspace weapon so it can destroy planets from across the galaxy, which should be idiotic enough, but when it is used to destroy the Republic capital world(s?) (and shouldn't that have been Coruscant?), Han et al. see the laser beam from whatever planet Maz's castle is located on. If the laser beam was travelling through hyperspace, wouldn't it not be visible in regular space? But more importantly, why in the name of the Force would they see a laser beam on the other side of the galaxy from the surface of a distant planet with their naked eyes? And why did they know what it was? Finally, as I mentioned above, the attack on Starkiller Base is really boring and just replicates exactly what we have seen in previous Star Wars films. Additionally, I would add that there never felt to me a sense of danger for our heroes during the battle and I thought the sequence was poorly edited together with no good balance between the dogfights above and Han and Chewie attempting to set the detonators below.
>cont a fucking again and again since 2000 only
>>63858547
-Rey's quick grasp of the Force. So despite having had no training and not even believing Jedi were real, Rey not only knows how to do a Jedi mind trick, but she can do it to a Stormtrooper ten feet away and not facing her? And she can fight and defeat a trained dark side acolyte in lightsaber combat (it has been argued to me that she clearly knew how to use that staff at the beginning, but I still don't buy that she can take on someone who is supposedly a powerful dark side user). Oh, and the little matter of her stealing the lightsaber in the snow from Ren really angered me. In Empire, Luke had had a little bit of Force training from Obi-Wan but when he attempted to free his lightsaber from the snowpack in the Wampa's cave, he did so with great difficulty, but here a character who has no knowledge of how to control the Force, easily swipes it and then keeps it from a powerful Force wielder. I don't buy it for a second. This leads me to my next point.
-I don't think JJ Abrams understands how the Force works. Mostly this pertains to Kylo Ren. Early on when Poe shoots at Ren, the latter holds the laser blast in the air for the remainder of the scene while he interrogates Poe. It's kind of neat until you realize that using the Force requires great concentration and Ren's focus switches to his prisoner almost immediately. My impression of the Force is that you're reaching out as if with an extra hand to move things or hold them, whatever the case may be, but you can't just hold it there forever because you're not creating a forcefield or something and using the Force is work; even Yoda has a little trouble lifting up that X-Wing and he sure doesn't hold it up for very long. When Darth Vader deflects laser bolts, he does just that, he doesn't hold the plasma in midair. Later when Ren holds Rey in the woods, I had a similar impression that he was simply doing more than the Force really allows. I don't buy this interpretation of the Force.
Where were you when JJ Abrams stayed more true to what made the originals great than Lucas did?
The saber fight wth Kylo Ren was done perfectly. Fuck the way the prequels did light saber fights.
>>63858579
-Snoke. So wait, he's a hologram but still has to be giant? Why? Because they wanted to mimic the scene between Vader and Sidious from Empire? Or because he's over-compensating for something? My guess is that when we meet the real Snoke he will actually be tiny, like 3 inches tall or something. That would be sort of interesting, so it probably won't happen. I was also disappointed by his look. I had heard that he was going to be someone with interesting facial features, but he was basically a person with a scar, a tiny mouth, and no nose. You have all the CGI in the world at your disposal and that's the "interesting" character you devise? *yawn*
-BB-8. I known others were charmed by him, but count me among those who didn't like him at all. First of all that design makes no sense. If he's rolling around, how does he make sure the right hatch is facing where he needs it to be? Answer: he doesn't. Second, that name is awful. And third, hearing Oscar Isaac say things like "Hey BB, buddy, come here" made me sick.
>>63858607
-The death ofHan Solo. I always knew this was going to happen, but one of my friends convinced me that maybe they'd go a different way because after all, if Disney wants to get people excited for this new series, killing off a beloved character at the end is probably not the way to do it. But they did. Of course the second he gave Chewie the detonator, you knew that was it for him. It was almost as if the writers knew the scene's conclusion wouldn't work if that didn't happen. I'm angry about this scene because Han goes out like a chump, killed by his own brat kid. Is having Han Solo for a dad really such a bad thing? He has the fastest space ship in the galaxy and a dog that you can talk to! He's like the best dad ever! Not good enough for this little brat though! And Han's speech to try to get Ren back is so bad. I feel pretty confident this was Abrams writing for Solo, not Kasden. I cannot see Kasden having the fast-talking Solo say something as self-defeating as "Snoke is using you for your power and once he has what he wants he is going to crush you." How exactly is insulting both your son's intelligence and his strength going to convince him to give up the dark side? This was an infuriating scene. Finally, I did not feel that Chewbacca properly mourned Han's death. These two have been inseparable for decades so I would have expected Chewie to be despondent late in the film, bu nope, he just flies away with Rey.
>>63858455
The nostalgia pandering/original trilogy similarities were obviously very deliberate and anyone could see it coming from a mile away. No way was disney going to fuck up the first movie of a new star wars trilogy when they have invested so much money into it. They wanted to make it feel like a continuation of the original trilogy and distance themselves as much from the prequels as necessary, which I think they've succeeded in doing. Hopefully now that they've gotten people interested in star wars again they'll take a more ambitious approach for the next two films. The Force Awakens feels like a bit of compromise in order to get what they want from the rest of the trilogy.
>>63858645
-"Bring our son home." Closely related to the last point is Leia's admonition to Han that if he sees their boy to bring him home. I'm sorry, but Kylo Ren is a war criminal and a murderer. It's not as if he dropped out of college to join a rock band. He has been killing people, lots of people. I know that Luke redeemed Darth Vader from the dark side so it's not as if this isn't a recurring theme, but Darth Vader also had to die to pay the price for the crimes he had committed. The idea that Han would bring Ben home to his mother and then go back to being a regular guy is so stupid as to be laughable if it wasn't ruining this once-proud franchise.
-The map. I get it, it's a MacGuffin, but shouldn't even a MacGuffin make sense? (Not in a JJ Abrams movie! See Star Trek and Star Trek Into Darkness.) So Luke went off into hiding, but he left a map? Why would he do that? And why did the Empire have part of the map? And if R2-D2 was so depressed that Luke had left that he couldn't get out of bed, why didn't he share the map he had with his pals? I understand that it wasn't complete, but I have to think that if they searched just that empty space, Leia probably could have used her Force magic to hone in on him.
-The final shot. Star Wars movies end with group shots of the surviving cast, nothelicopter shots of Luke standing on a cliff like a moron.
>>63858513
>>63858547
>>63858579
>>63858607
>>63858645
Shit opinion desu.
>>63858684
-Luke Skywalker's Fate. Well, I get now why he wasn't in any trailers or on the poster. JJ Abrams took my favorite character in Star Wars and turned him into this movie's worst character, a giant pussy who fucked over the entire galaxy and then washed his hands of the affair. So basically as Han tells us, Luke was training Ben Solo and the kid turned to the Dark Side, so Luke blamed himself and went into exile. What JJ Abrams has done is turn Luke into an even more pathetic version of Obi-Wan. He has taken the greatest hero of the Rebel Alliance and turned him into a miserable failure. Except Obi-Wan at least tried to clean up his mistake before going into hiding to wait for the new hope who would restore balance. After Anakin's fall to the Dark, Obi-Wan and Yoda made a last-ditch effort to defeat Sidious and Vader. They failed, but like R. P. MacMurphy, at least they tried. Goddammit, at least they tried. The only Jedi left, Luke knowingly left the galaxy on its own to deal with a half-trained dark side user and the Snoke guy who had seduced him to the Dark Side. What a hero. This goes completely against the Luke Skywalker we met as a young man. Luke was someone who took responsibility and sought to help others. --
>>63858722
--When Darth Vader captured his friends he went to save them even though he knew it was a trap because they'd been captured on account of him. When Vader and the Emperor learned that he was on Endor, he could have run but he faced down and distracted two Sith Lords rather than abandon his friends, turning the tide of the battle as the Imperial army, without its leadership, fell into disarray. Luke Skywalker is a heroic character who would not run and hide while leaving his friends to face powerful enemies who would undoubtedly cause great harm to millions of innocent people. It cheapens the entirety of the Original Trilogy to portray Luke as someone who failed in his mission to resurrect the Jedi Order, instead choosing to quit upon the first sign of trouble
In sum, this was very much a JJ Abrams movie, and that's about the worst thing I could say about any movie.
I would never have thought that the old Expanded Universe would prove to be so much better than the first sequel film. In all seriousness, right now I have no desire to watch another new Star Wars film theatrically. (He says, knowing full well that he will go see this piece of shit once more just to be sure.)
The more I've thought about this movie since watching it, the more I hate it.
1/5
Is this the designated marketing thread?
I sure can't wait to see the sequel to the record breaking Star Wars™ VII: The Force Awakens™! How about that Rey™, wasn't she a Strong Female Character™ who don't need no Finn™? Not that Finn™ wasn't a great character too mind you, PoC are great!
>>63858303
You could say that about any of the Prequels.
>>63858803
Go back to /b/ if you want quick meme arrow bites you low cine-IQ cancer.
>>63858513
Nice pasta
>>63858513
>implying Kylo wasn't the best character in the movie, see >>63855981
>>63858547
blowing up several planets at a time is obviously scary because the other planets dont get a chance to evacuate, like asking why is a nuclear weapon scary when you have carpet bombing planes
>>63858579
it's turbo-mega obvious she was one of Luke's pupils, the scene where she does the force-suggestion on the guard is clearly implying she has heard of this before and is not sure she can pull it off, and they're obviously keeping her backstory mysterious for a later reveal
Kylo doesn't hold it there forever, it flies off when he leaves
>>63858607
there's also obviously a big reveal coming as to Snoke's true nature, it's implied Kylo has never even physically met him and was only about to for his final face to face training session
if you dont like BB-8 you might seriously be on the autistic spectrum because why everyone else likes him is you can understand exactly what he means due to his body language and would only not understand him if you cant read body language, please see a therapist and get yourself checked for apsergers
>>63858645
that scene was the most powerful in the entire saga and yeah having a guy whos still a rip-off artist smuggler well into his 60s as your dad is not a good thing and there was a scene where Chewie is crying by himself
>>63858674
nothing wrong with that since A New Hope is the classic heroes journey template
>>63858684
obviously they don't mean come home so we can hang out and catch up on TV together, they will pump him for information about the New Order and probably make him stand trial for his crimes
Luke turbo-obviously wanted Rey to find him and at that set time
considering the final shot of TPM was zooming on on that fat slob gungan guy I dont think they can get any worse, it also looked beautiful
>>63858722
you don't know exactly what happened between him and Kylo, he's probably in hiding for the good of the galaxy
>>63859265
The thing is, even if she was trained by Luke, the fact that they don't tell us in that movie and expect us to fill the gaps is lazy.
It's a lazy attempt to justify more movies and it adds nothing to quality of the saga by not telling us.
I really hate when nerds try to cover poor writers/directors arses for them.
>>63858607
I'm starting to think you're just a contrarian
>>63859489
you use the word "contrarian," you're literally an idiot. It's an invented concept by idiots with childish sensibilities who are too fragile to deal with criticism of mediocre media that has widespread appeal.
It's a troubling manifestation of millennials' mental weakness. Seriously, the only people who would even entertain any "argument" involving the concept of being "contrarian" are weak, lazy idiots who can't deal with criticism substantively.
If it bothers you that much that people criticize mediocre mass-marketed work designed to appeal to the lowest common denominator, like Star Wars, TBBT, pop music, etc., you should find a safe bubble and stay there. Or kill yourself.
