Rassilon didn't deserve this Edition
Moffat really did it >>63399323
Rassilon is a crazy old man and Hell Bent suited him perfectly.
>>63402945
Rassilon for big bad next series.
>>63402945
Isn't Rassilon one of the four time-lord legends? Along with the Doctor, the Master and Omega. You know he ain't just gonna sit on his ass and accept this.
>>63402945
Why was Rassilon still president?
DJ on classic fm just ranted that he hasn'r understood doctir who for years,
In Moffat's mind, Rassilon was the butt of a hilarious joke.
God damnit I fucking hate Moffat so fucking god damn much FUCK FUCK THAT STUPID FUCKER SHIT.
Everyone knows you use POWDER for chocolate milk because it dissolves much much easier
syrup is for ice cream
Reminder that Hell Bent was good tier and you lot need to calm your fucking autism over a few throwaway scenes in the 1 hour episode
>>63403071
It was a fucking mess. Moffat's Journey's End.
>>63403071
He literally ruined the biggest and most hyped moment that the shows been building to for 10 years in order to magic back a companion that's already had half a dozen better sendoffs.
>>63402945
Can timelords get alzheimers?
He really gave off a pathetic alzheimers vibe during his part of the episode.
>>63403090
What made it a mess?
You cannot say rassilon was a pussy or the black woman regeneration - neither of those made the story a 'mess', just something you didn't want to see because of your autism
>>63403028
I don't understand nuWho either. The story arcs never really go anywhere. They just sort of fizzle out or get forgotten. It always ends with the Doctor posing and saying he's the Doctor.
>>63403004
That's what pisses me off. He's only the first fucking Timelord.
>>63403129
>>63403129
Not that faggot - The black woman regeneration was fucking sweet, do we have a name for her yet?
>>63403129
calm down reddit
>>63403129
Nothing made sense, everything was hand--waved, there were no consequences the resolution was a damp squib.
>>63403161
How is that a reddit thing to say? Neither of those things are a main factor in the flow of the overall story
>>63403172
>there were no consequences
Clara and the doctor are no longer together
Rassilon and the high council were exiled
Those are consequences
>>63403177
>Shitting in the mouth of an established character
>Forced PC nonsense
Defending it is very reddit.
>>63403158
LaShaquila
>>63403177
Exactly. Neither of those things were the problem, or what people were complaining about. You bringing them up as some attempt at a strawman is a very reddit thing to do.
>>63403200
But we're talking about how the story was a mess, not about how you were triggered by one moment that had little relevance to the overall narrative
>>63403149
He was referring specifically to moffat's stuff. went on about the whole they're dead then they're not dead then they're dead again thing.
So can somebody explain something to me?
I thought Gallifrey as trapped in another pocket dimension, but the latest episode makes it seems like it just got moved to "the end of time" (4 billion years is retarded).
Did I just misunderstand the 50th special, or did they change where Gallifrey got moved to?
>>63403218
>or what people were complaining about.
They're literally the two most complained about things from the episode on /who/ besides clara getting a tardis
>>63403227
>Rassilon getting beaten down to far beneath his actual place
Note that Rassilon used to be final boss tier.
Imagine if the next Master was completely incompetent. People would be a little upset.
>>63403245
Gallifrey found out a way to escape the pocket dimension
12 says in the episode he didn't bother asking them how because he didn't want them to feel clever
AKA moff didn't want to explain it just like how sherlock survived the suiciding
>>63403245
It's literally waved away in the episode. Clara asks this question and the Doctor just says "Time Lords real smart lol"
General LaQueefa.
>>63403245
They got out of the pocket universe and moved themselves to the end of the universe so they'd be safe and hard to find
>>63402976
>Rassilon joins with the High Council who were also ousted
>Determined to retake Gallifrey, They use Time Lord tech to recruit lesser races to help them overthrow the new High Council
>Series 10 is a Time Lord Civil War
>>63403129
Returning to Gallifrey was massively disappointing considering we've been waiting for 10 years.
>>63403195
Both of those will be undone. Moff wont be able to help himself and Clara will return in some capacity. Rassilon will be brought back by another writer after Moffat leaves. Also he shouldn't have still been president anyway but never mind that.
>>63403245
It's possible that the timelords left the pocket dimension in Time of the Doctor, when they gave him all that regeneration energy, and decided to drop in 4 billion years later.
It's only possible, however, as Moffat has likely forgotten all about writing about the pocket dimension in the first place.
>>63403310
Heaven Sent made it pretty clear that 12 was done caring about gallifrey
Why were there so many black timelords?
>>63403298
>Rassilon joins with the High Council who were also ousted
>finds the Toclafane
>cannibalizes them even further and makes them OP as fuck
>conquers Gallifrey
>puts the Sisterhood of Karn and the General and all the soldiers who sided with the Doctor to the gauntlet.
>comes back to the proper universe and wages war on every one of the Doctor's allies
ftfy
So that barn that the doctor grew up in was actually within sight of the gallifrey dome city?
Why was it that in Day of the Doctor it's in the middle of a desert with a blue sky and nothing else in sight - particularly, no space battle raging on in the sky so close to the capital?
>>63403336
Cause Gallifrey isn't Earth so they could actually have a majority of black Gallifreyans
>>63403350
>Expecting consistency from a hack
Series 8- Mr. President
Series 9- Lord President
Series 10- ???
The rule of Moffat is the more you've been waiting for something to be resolved, the more it's fucking nothing.
>>63403350
Stop thinking about it more than Moffat, which is at all, it'll be a lot healthier
>>63403333
Pretty much fucking ruins the entire 50th special and any investment fans had in seeing it back though.
>>63403376
President of the universe
>>63403376
Baron President
>>63403376
Lady President
Some Time Lords can afford the upgrade
>>63403362
The classic series shows them as a bunch of white men.
>>63403385
How? We saw it back, we saw The Doctor being considered a war hero that soldiers respected more than rassilon, and we even saw native gallifreyans
stephen fry next doctor pls
>>63403408
>young boy companion
>>63403408
He'd have to become a tranny first
>>63403376
Ms President ;^)
>>63403385
That's how the Doctor's character works. 12 wanted to go back, but he wasn't as hype for it as 11 was and it kind of ended up on his backburner.
>>63403408
No.
>>63403404
But it could have been any old planet. We saw no Time Lord plotting, the closest we got was an old man shouting.
>>63403408
An alternating jolly/depressive Doctor. I could dig it. Only if Moffat is ousted though.
>>63403403
That's cause they'd all conveniently regenerated into a white man, a few obviously went back to normal.
Out universe answer is that the UK was obviously not diverse and obviously racist considering some of those episodes.
>>63403469
What were you expecting? Gallifrey's been romanticised a lot but in reality it IS just any old planet, just with an exceptional race
And we had a regeneration and new time lord technology
What were you expecting?
ONE HUNDRED
MILLION
BILLION
ZILLION
GORILLION
HOGILLION
BAZILLION
YEARSI'm a /v/irgin and I don't often wander in to /tv/ and even more rarely wander in to /who/ but Jesus Christ this season of Who really didn't do it for me. Fucking sonic sunglasses, Doctor with a guitar would've been a funny one-off "Hey he's fucking around" but then they kept doing it, Clara being annoying as shit (Although her getting killed due to her retarded "Durr I'm Clara, Doctor will save me XD XD XD" was nice. Until she didn't die. Because the Doctor saved her. God fucking damn it), Gallifrey apparently being back, but at the end of time, and Rassilon is there but who the fuck knows oh wait now he's on a shuttle and fired off in to space because even though in old Who even the normal time lords were kind of a big deal for the Doctor but aaaaaaaaaaaAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA.
Didn't like it. Felt bad that I didn't like it because I like Capaldi (Although his Doctor is still too new-Who and attached to goddamn Clara. Would've liked if he was more genuinely gruff like Hartnell or Pertwee or even goddamn Colin Baker instead of "Tee hee, look up your emotion cards. Bazinga!") but that might've been the single worst season of new Who for me. It didn't hit fucking Dobby Doctor single episode/story lows, but the whole thing didn't do much for me. Didn't really like Arya's character either. Doctor genuinely needs to get arrested by time lords again and stranded on Earth so he stops being such a horrible shit.
>>63403417
fry's husband is 27 just fyi
>>63403492
Did you mistake 4chan for tumblr?
>>63403404
No appearance or mention of Romana, Susan or any other family No explanation of how it escaped being frozen of Missy's escape or why Rassilon is still president. No red grass and silver tress. Zero scenes showing his happiness finding his home and species safe after it being the main source of his character development for nu who.
>people unironically think that S9 is the worst series of nuwho
>when series 6 exists
>when series 7 exists
>when series 2 exists
>>63403519
I have no idea what tumblr speak is like, you somehow do though
>>63403506
here's your reply, shitposter.
My condolences to the British people for the loss of their cultural identity.
>>63403497
I was expecting the Time Lords to actually do something.
The only person who actually moves the plot forward is from the Sisterhood of Karn (who can just walk onto Gallifrey apparently)
>>63403523
Yeah, I thought it needed to be more of a triumphant occasion too. We need Moff gone badly.
>>63403432
>literally ends the 50th with all the Doctors looking up at Gallifey with hope and longing
More like Moff didn't have a clue what do with it and ended up playing second fiddle to giving Clara an unearned happy ending.
But why only blacks? Why not asians, that would have been slightly believable atleast.
>Rassilon was, alongside Omega and the Other, one of the founders of Time Lord civilisation and widely regarded as the single greatest figure of Gallifreyan history.
He sure didn't portray that in the episode.
>>63403523
>No appearance or mention of Romana, Susan or any other family
What relevance could they have had to the plot if they weren't the focus? They're too significant of characters to appear without being the main point of the episode
>No explanation of how it escaped being frozen
What's the difference between throwing together some made up technical sounding words and saying 'they did it, I didn't bother asking how'? They both serve the same purpose and one is much less dumb
>missy's escape
Why do they need to explain that exactly?
>why Rassilon is still president
Why wouldn't he be? He was last time we saw him
>No red grass and silver tress
Does that really matter?
>Zero scenes showing his happiness finding his home and species safe after it being the main source of his character development for nu who.
He WASN'T happy to see it, this was more than well established in Heaven Sent. And you're insane if you think it's the main source of his character development in nuwho, especially of 12's development
>>63403172
This made more sense & was less of a hand-wave than the whole Papal Mainframe storyline: I think we can all agree on that.
I think it was convoluted but there are answers here:
>Why didn't Rassalon try to carry out the Ultimate Sanction?
Inside the pocket dimension, Rassalon was just desperate to escape his by any means possible. In this situation, he's not in the pocket dimension any more thus does not need to destroy time to escape.
>How did Gallifrey get restored in the first place?
That may be a different adventure all together. We know Gallifrey can safely return as soon as they A.) Solve the paradoxes and atrocities they created inside the pocket dimension, and B.) they find a place in space/time they can reappear safely. Right now the Kasterborous system is a huge Dalek Empire thanks to Davros so that still has to be delt with before they can return.
>Why wasn't the General's regeneration more violent?
We were under the impression each regeneration became progressively more violent, but we should consider the possibility that it might be due to proximity to the source: Gallifrey. And the most violent regenerations were when the Doctor wasn't even in the same Universe as Gallifrey.
>What happens if Clara dies anywhere other than where she is supposed to?
We can assume reality gets ripped apart by the paradox. But there are some considerations: One of two possibilities are in place.
1.) Clara died in a very specific way, probably the one way that made the story work. And that is that the Elemental Shade does not care when and where you die, just so long as you die, as evident that the universe did not collapse immediately from a paradox spanning billions of years.
2.) Ashildr still has the second Mire chip. She gave it to Clara to insure she wouldn't die before she's supposed to. I would bet there was a scene that got cut that shows this. Ashildr finding a worthy companion was part of her arc.
>>63403506
Fuck off, This is was the best series since series 5I do agree that the sonic glasses were a shit idea, the guitar was fucking GOAT though
>>63403564
Well to be fair, that was likely supposed to be a general look at how old the franchise was and how many actors portrayed him. Pretty sure Capaldi wasn't even in that lineup if memory serves.
I'm not saying Hell Bent wasn't shit. I was just saying this wouldn't be the first time one incarnation wasn't absolutely hyped for something that his previous form was hyped for, even if it was something important. Remember that 9 thought humans were half-formed inbred apes and 10 absolutely fucking loved humans and thought they were what would save the universe.
>>63403579
>that would have been slightly believable
I.... what? They're not human, Gallifrey doesn't even HAVE an Asia.
>>63403600
no bully
>>63403579asians dont have as many lobby groups complaining about being underepresented as a minorityblacks literally make he most noise though to be honest racism takes second place to simple socio-economic divisions in britain, unlike the states.
>>63403613
Sonic anything is a shit idea.
The ray bans themselves looked great on Capaldi and were a far cry better than bowties and 3d glasses.
>>63403609
>Ashildr still has the second Mire chip.
except she doesn't
>>63403617
But it has an Africa apparently.
>>63403609
Ashildr gave it to that one guy that Moffat forgot about.
>>63403663
Ashildr only survived because she managed to avoid anything that would kill her right up until the end of reality
swifty probably did something dumb that killed him
>>63403650
kek
>>63403677
I mean, that's logical, but considering our favorite showrunner it actually makes more sense if Moffat just forgot about Swift within the day.
>>63403579
Jews don't want you to see Asians. They want you to see Africans.
So the hybrid was actually the metaphorical pairing of the Doctor and Clara which is why they had to split up, right?
>>63403718
yup, I think that was the deal.
>>63403718
OR was it?
https://youtu.be/bW7Op86ox9g
>>63403718
No, the Hybrid was supposed to be the reconfirmation that 8 wasn't full of shit when he said he was human on his mother's side.
Then Moffat sidestepped it, possibly at BBC's insistence, and turned his proclamation into a "subtle" implication at the last minute.
>>63403663
>>63403648
Oh right, but then I assumed Ashildr got annoyed with that guy after a week and ripped that chip right out of his skull.
>>63403613
At least they're done with the glasses. The new screwdriver is kinda blingy but eh. No biggy.
And I'm not shaking my fist and trying to tell other people to hate the season, just thought I'd swing in here to get that rant off my chest since it was bugging me. I watched it with a few other people and they all enjoyed it too so it's entirely possible that I'm just full of shit. Angry, angry shit.
>>63403636
Yeah, I would've been fine with him wearing the sunglasses, and IIRC the first time the "Sonic" part was revealed it was up in the air as to if it was genuine or just the Doctor dazzling people with bullshit, but my heart sank when it turned out they were real.
That might actually play in to part of my disappointment with this season in general. I like Doctor Who the most when it's just the Doctor and a companion or two bopping around space and time randomly and doing whatever. Every season of new Who wants some epic damn storyline though and it's getting to me. I'd be glad to have a season where there's no giant threat to the universe again and the Doctor goes around saving a town here, a ship there, generally having a good time. I started out digging the viking episode this season until it turned into UNSTOPPABLE SUPERGOD ARYA. Not sure why the end of time wasn't busier, if the Doctor can sonic screwdriver a goddamn medical chip to make a human live forever you'd think someone else in all of space and time would have magically done the same shit and the technology would've gotten out. Even the damn time lords have regenerations to cheat death, but apparently the fucking Master could've just stuck a chip up his ass when he was out of regenerations and he would've been good to go. No need to bodyjack anyone.
>>63403748
Moff himself has said that he hated the notion that the doctor is half human on his mother's side
that's why he sidestepped it
>>63403749
I don't even know if it would still work if she did that.
You'd think Moff would've rewrote Swift's fate when he hit the point that he decided to bring Clara back to life and make her time travel with Ashildr.
>>63403600
1. A mention would have sufficed, and as characters they serve more importance to him than Clara
2. Why bother explaining anything then if just handwaving is something as the return of his home plant is good enough for you rather than an actual plot
3. Because it makes no sense how she could have escaped a little nod would have been nice
4. Because in EOT he was power mad and and doing crazy shit yet here hes just a grump ineffectual old man
5. Yes its how the planet was first described 51 years ago and memorably in series 3 it would have looked great and been nice treat for the fans
6. He should have been. His entire species and home should be more important to him than one companion of hundreds who died because of her own actions. And yes its destruction and the hope of its returns has driven more of the Doctors character significamtly than anything else in nu who.
So, your verdict /who/, was the hybrid arc too banal compared to the nethersphere/missy?
>>63403748
>Moffat sidestepped it, possibly at BBC's insistence
BBC wouldn't have stopped that. He laid out breadcrumbs all season about different possibilities, the recharged Daleks, Ashildr - McGann never crossed his mind, it was obviously an idea Moff thought up for the big mystery of the season and didn't even realize it was done before.
>>63403799
It's probably the most convoluted and poorly executed arc of nuwho
none of the mentions of a hybrid throughout the series except for two had anything to do with the finale. What was the point of calling osgood a hybrid?
>>63403779
He also said he hated Tumblr.
Moffat's a fucking liar.
Christ why would he even devote an entire season to the Doctor being half human until the last episode if he hated it so much?
>>63403814
Because the season WASN'T about the doctor being half human, never was
>>63403807
>McGann never crossed his mind, it was obviously an idea Moff thought up for the big mystery of the season and didn't even realize it was done before.
Fuck me that would be hilarious.
I want to punch my cockhead through Jenna and Maisie's starfishes and hammer their asspipes mercilessly.
>>63403843
You have been corrupted by degenerative black culture into thinking that backsides are an object of sexual desire
>>63403832
Bullshit.
Why would he say that he was the hybrid if it turned out he wasn't? Clearly he was supposed to be half something, and Moff pussied out at the last minute.
>>63403609
>>63403663
She doesn't have the chip. Unless she brutally retreved it from that Thief guy.
I think Clara's new Timelost nature just makes her naturally impervious to damage. Like Ashildr.
Are there any torrents of recent Big Finish stories like the one where Six regenerates?
>>63403858
On this one topic they may be onto something.
>>63403863
He said 'Me', as in Ashildr. He made that clear when he was talking to her at the end of the universe
But the doctor actually was part of the hybrid - the hybrid was the doctor and clara combined
>>63403886
>he was talking about the person he refused to call "Me" until this exact moment for no reason
>the hybrid was the doctor and clara combined
If you don't consider that shit a last-minute copout then there's no helping you.
Why did they let the sisterhood of karn on Gallifrey?
I mean sure you can't get double sterile, but still.
>>63403917
What makes that a copout and not a reveal?
>>63403872
http://audiobookbay.cc/audio-books/doctor-who-the-6th-doctor-the-last-adventure-big-finish-2/
you have to make an account to download, I use my alt email account
>>63403927
lungburrows backstory dont mean shit, although them being there is pointless
>>63403158
Nigger
>>63403944
Is this legit and stuff?
>>63403928
The term hybrid refers to a mixture, not a mismatched pair.
>>63403928
Moffat clearly laid pieces down that would change the status quo of the series, along with the Doctor's canon race (which actually would be half-human anyway but who gives a shit about 8; it's an easy retcon). You bet your ass he saw, considered, and hinted at this. Then he considered the backlash of such an action and like a gigantic pussy, turned the reveal into a big pile of fucking nothing.
>>63403867
Shouldn't there be time-bats jackhammering on her bumhole? They took a stern stance against people avoiding death before. I could buy the time lord temporary pause to talk to her, but flying around seems like that would peter out.
Me, Clara, the Doctor, and some new character as the hybrid were Moffat red herrings. The me/Me line was intended to confuse.
>Dalton will never be Rassilon again
What a disappointment.
>>63404024
Hybrid: a thing made by combining two different elements.
In this case, the hybrid was a metaphorical pairing of the doctor and clara. The doctor was clingy and refused to let her go as long as they were friends, which ultimately could have resulted in him standing in the ruins of gallifrey in an attempt to save her. That's why they had to wipe on of their memories (so there was no motivation to pair up again)
>>63404041
Show me a single time in S9 where half human was ever alluded to or foreshadowed beside Me's mention of it in Hell Bent
You're incredibly deluded if you thought it was ever going to be some status quo shattering revelation
Those only existed when the Time Lords didn't
>>63404017
you mean viruses?
I haven't had any with audiobookbay but there's still some risk with these things, it usually works out.
>>63404024
>Implying the Doctor didn't """mix""" with Clara on a nightly basis
>>63403813
>most convoluted and poorly executed arc of nuwho
Uh, do I have to remind you of all the shit that doesn't make sense about the Church storyline?
>In 1969, why do the Silence treat the Doctor as a non-threat despite simultaneously tasked with carrying out a Church assassination attempt of the doctor using River Song & trying to free themselves from their masters and enslave all of humanity using the televised Moon Landing?
>Korvarian gets killed in an aborted timeline. No reference to what happens to her in the real timeline.
>I get that the Silence are hard to control but how many times do they have attempt to exterminate the human race does the church accept they cannot be controlled?
And bonus round:
>Why does the Doctor never visit Rory & Amy using a time agent wrist device?
>Sularians & Sontarans can live hundreds of years. So why do we never see Vastra or Strax in the present?
>>63404083
If she goes to the trap street and prevents her death, there probably would be Reapers and/or an unraveling of time.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Father's_Day_%28Doctor_Who%29
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/The_Wedding_of_River_Song
So with the Time Lords back, the Walls of Reality can open again right?
>yfw Meta 10 and Rose come back
>>63404118
>actually wanting an anticlimax after eleven episodes of OMG HYBRID WHAT COULD IT BE
Note that the Doctor is still canonically half-human. BFA will never be canon to the series.
>>63404083
Only by creating a paradox. Clara isn't aging so no paradox exists yet, so they're good. If she ever died in a contradictory way, Reapers everywhere. Till then, don't worry.
Though this does raise the question, couldn't everyone who ever died, ever be saved from death this way? Did they just make death irrelevant?
>>63404083
But she is dead. She just had some wiggle room, how long is up to her, as long as in the end she goes back to the extraction chamber and goes back to Trap Street.
>>63404128
In that case that implies the time lords fixed it, since the bats only show up to repair time-fuckups. So again, that seems like they shouldn't have had them fly away into the sunset and should've just let her fucking die.
On a partially related note, bit annoying how Arya and Clara could fly a damn TARDIS so well. I realize that Arya has supposedly been living for ONE MILLION ZILLION INFINITY YEARS PLUS TEN but TARDISes are a unique time lord thing which you wouldn't think she could just pick up over time. Especially since they made it a point that she forgets things constantly due to normal human brain. Took the Doctor for fucking ever to even BARELY learn how to steer the fucking TARDIS instead of just randomly slapping buttons on the console and going somewhere. Much less actually go where and when he wanted.
>>63404118
If a season is dedicated to some legendary timelord hybrid it's only logical for people to look in the direction of the only major timelord hybrid there is: the Doctor.
Ashildr wasn't even slightly timelord. She was 100% human that was artificially turned immortal.
>>63404240
But 'everyone' isn't friends with the Time Lords.
>>63404172
>In the Time of Angels, why would the Stormcage allow River Song to be released into the Custody of the Church: Her accomplices to her crime? It was a rogue sect, but does the Shadow Proclamation make such considerations?
I'd bet money on Clara somehow being river now.
>>63404230
>actually wanting an anticlimax after eleven episodes of OMG HYBRID WHAT COULD IT BE
I thought the hybrid arc was dumb and they did a terrible job of building up any hype at all. The hybrid wasn't established as something to take seriously until Heaven Sent. When davros first brought it up I just took it as some throwaway thing, not a series long arc
My dad was asking me around episode 8 what I thought the arc of this series was because he hadn't noticed one yet, I told him about how hybrid had shown up a couple times but he legitimately didn't believe that could be it
His best theory was that clara being in a pod every episode was the arc
All things considered I'm actually glad moff made it an anticlimax instead of something more lore shattering like the doctor being part time lord part dalek
>>63404268
She does die, anon. Don't you get it? Her death in FTR is a fixed event in history.
>>63404083
Plus Nine said the reapers were primarily a problem because the Time Lords weren't around to keep those paradoxes from unraveling into a giant demon bat buffet.
What the hell happened to this guy?
>Arya
I don't watch Game of Thrones and was like "literally Who?" until I looked her up on Wikipedia just now.
>>63404356
they gave a quick line that his immortality would be effective because of power draining.
>>63404317
THIS BULLSHIT RIGHT HERE
>>63404356
He got married to Jenny and moved in next door to Shona in the place of things Moffat forgot.
>>63404325
Actually he would've been part timelord part not dalek. Remember he said the timelords were wrong about the hybrid being half dalek as that would never have happened in Heaven Sent.
As, again, he's still officially half human (as no episode besides the movie has referenced his exact heritage up to this point), it was pretty obvious the most likely implication that he realized that the hybrid was, in fact, part human.
Remember, this is Moffat we're talking about. It's more likely than you'd think.
>>63404356
After spending 20 minutes with this guy, Ashildr cracked open his skull with a trowel and ripped the immortality chip out.
Seems like they were going for a misdirect. Like it's implied he's who she's playing chess at the end of the universe, but its actually Clara? I expect this ep to have deleted scenes.
>>63404268
>>63404268
>Especially since they made it a point that she forgets things constantly due to normal human brain.
Well she's had 100 trillion years to get the very best in upgrades to memory, brain power, etc.
>>63404432
Moffat has publicly derided the notion of the doctor being half human though
I sincerely doubt he wanted to enforce it as canon
>>63404432
Yup
DWM (#475): “Here’s a question I tried on some Doctor Who fans recently, and we were all a bit startled by the answer, when it finally emerged – if we got it right. Okay; keeping in mind that everything you know for sure is probably wrong, answer me this: in which story is it confirmed, definitively, that the Doctor is not human?
“Now before you jump up and yell An Unearthly Child – sorry, but wrong. He makes it clear he’s not from this time, and seems to indicate that he was born on another world, but he never says he’s an alien. He could, just as easily, be a human being from the far future, born on some colonized world. Indeed, most of his conversation in the early days would seem to confirm that he thinks of himself as human, and he even explicitly states that he is, at least once. So come on then. To your DVD collection. In what story do the wise men and women of the BBC stop fudging the issue, and make our hero Not One Of Us. I’m not talking about him having remarkable abilities or attributes – we’ve always known he’s not ordinary, that s fair enough. Spider-Man’s not ordinary, but he s not an alien. And I’m not talking about series bibles, or internal memos or retconned continuity – when did the Doctor Who production team stop hedging their bets and make him alien? Fandom, to your work. Yes, Russell, you too.”
>>63404422
Anyone else still hoping Jenny Flint, Vastra's wife is Timelord Clone Jenny? Especially after the Doctor's speech about how he shouldn't travel with immortals? It's extremely unlikely, but they haven't done anything to directly contradict it.
>>63404327
So she gets to live forever again because the Doctor went "I ACCIDENTALLY ANOTHER IMMORTAL" and then after another HUNDRED MILLION BILLION YEARS she can stand in front of a bird and die.
Great
GREAT
MAKES ME FEEL A LOT BETTER ABOUT IT ANONYMOUS
TURNS OUT YOU ACTUALLY HAVE TO TRY REALLY FUCKING HARD TO DIE IN THE DOCTOR WHO UNIVERSE. THERE ARE IMMORTALITY MACHINES LYING ALL OVER THE FUCKING PLACE
>>63404406
The Doctor admitted he was bullshitting that
>>63404356
If I recall, because it was put on him when he died, the device just gave him enough time to live the rest of his natural life.
>>63404547
Oh yeah. I forgot. Thanks Moffat.
>>63404487
>Are you an alien? Yeah.
>I'm a Time Lord
>No, you look Time-Lord, we came first.
>I've got two hearts
>I'm from Gallifrey, boys!
Seems pretty clear to me he's not human.
>>63404497
You are a really weird dude. No.
And Jenny if she was Doctor's daughter Jenny, would've said something to the Doctor, plus she left to run, save civilizations and have adventures, not be a housewife/maid
>>63404518
Legit autism.
>>63404432
Doctor being half human is about as canon as his first name being Basil.
>expecting a season long arc to be coherently and neatly tied up in a British kids show that employs multiple hack writers over the course of said season
>>63404547
hes not around so its likely he died, pity I like Roofus Hound
I wanted to like Matt Smith as the Doctor, he was so goofy and cute, I want to like Peter Capaldi as the Doctor as he's basically Dr. House in space. But Moffat, fucking Moffat. Make the dude that wrote the
Fisherking episode the new showrunner, he's done some decent stories.
The hybrid probably has something to do with Missy and the DaleksThat idea she suddenly had when she was left with them
>>63404518
The consolidation I can live with, is that the Time Lords, now that she's back, will essentially be hunting her: They both have the Technology for enslaving the forces of life & death, and dedicated to make sure things like Clara are not allowed to exist.
Making Clara's relationship to the Time Lord's much like The Doctor's in the early years of classic who.
The scary part is that show actually sounds more interesting than the show we have on our hands.
>>63404487
That's ridiculous. If he were half human he'd still be an alien.
Actually his being half human doesn't do much in the long run. If anything it would just give him another reason for his fascination with the human race when he's got an entire universe to dick around in.
It's not even a big deal. He's been confirmed half human since 8 and nothing's really changed about him.
>>63404599
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tFhjvOWJ30o
Just because it wasn't liked cant undo that its fact.
>>63404651
That idea was just a cheeky little throwaway to show that she wasn't about to die and will inevitably come back
>>63404497
According this book
http://tardis.wikia.com/wiki/The_Brilliant_Book_2012
Jenny was a match girl when she first encountered Madame Vastra. She was being molested by a Chinese gang called the Tongs, from whom Vastra saved her.
>>63404017
I just downloaded now, it seems to be a working torrent, the first chapters play fine
>>63404599
Wrong. Even the Master discovered that the Doctor was half-human when he broke into his TARDIS.
This wasn't an offhanded lie he was telling. It was a plot point in the movie.
>>63404661
The TV movie is not canon
>>63404678
It's been canon at least since Night of the Doctor.
Actually it's been canon ever since Eccleston was called the 9th Doctor. If they really wanted rid of the TV movie he would've been the 8th.
>>63404704
The eighth doctor does exist in doctor who canon
The TV movie is not canon
The doctor used one of those special pocketwatches to biologically be half human during the events of the TV movie
then he went back to normal later
>>63404710
You're in denial
>>63404710
>being this deluded about a character trait that really has no bearing on the character itself
fucking lol. It's easy to accept that he's a half human hybrid. It's not even a big deal.
Fuck, it kind of explains why Susan liked humans so much.
You autists are still going at it, eh?
>>63404727
I don't remember him saying half, just that it rewrites biology, putting the Time Lord parts in the watch.
>>63404776
Guys, I'm crying right now. Check the news. Matt Smith is dead. The last thing he said was
http://haveageekasm.com/geekery/adult/alex-kingston-nude/
>>63404788
This. It would be stupid as hell if the Doctor decided to just fuse his biology like that for no reason.
And after the travesty that is River Song, a half timelord half human hybrid is only several steps up. But nobody likes her either so I guess she's also noncanon.
>>63404589
>she left to run, save civilizations and have adventures, not be a housewife/maid
Not if she fell in love. Plus, she is doing exactly that. She's Vastra's partner in protecting the Earth during Victorian times. The maid thing is just for keeping up appearances.
>would've said something to the Doctor
Something like what? We know the Doctor spent a lot of time with the Paternoster Gang after Amy left, despite never learning their origins. Leaving her on Earth seems like a very Doctor thing to do, (He's spent many long-stretches of time stranded on Earth & he did the same thing to Susan.) Not to mention Timelords are considered children until they're well-past age 90.
The only thing to back up my Jenny theory is...
>In Name of the Doctor, when the doctor catches up with the Paternoster gang, he only acknowledges Jenny. Not Vastra or Strax.
>The whole sexy-combat thing in The Crimson Horror, while campy, seems like a direct reference to Jenny's laser-trap scene in The Doctor's Daughter.
>>63404843
>TFW you see Matt Smith nudes
>>63404666
Despite it's "official" tagline, that book is about as canon as the Star Wars Christmas Special
>>63404678
>The TV movie is not canon
Yes it certainly is. I think you're thinking of the other movies.
>>63404916
Peter Cushing is the most canon doctor though
he was even in the 50th
>>63404857
>She's Vastra's partner in protecting the Earth
Bullfucking shit, Vastra's the one doing shit and investigating shit, like Jack the Ripper
>Something like what?
Like acknowledging the dude as her "dad", the Doctor showing affection towards her like a dad like even in Deep Breath when he was mental,
>In Name of the Doctor, when the doctor catches up with the Paternoster gang, he only acknowledges Jenny. Not Vastra or Strax.
Literally meaningless
>>The whole sexy-combat thing in The Crimson Horror, while campy, seems like a direct reference to Jenny's laser-trap scene in The Doctor's Daughter.
He also literally kisses her on the lips.
You're crazy
>>63404927
For all we know there really is a mad human doctor with a time machine whose last name is Who in the Doctor Who universe.
Actually that could be a good episode in itself.
>>63404991
>Doctor Who meets Dr. Who
I'd watch it.
Help me /who/
the christmas special actually looks like fun
like voyage of the damned but with capaldi and river
>>63403832
The season, really was about clara, just like the last one.
fuck moffat. I wouldn't mind having gratiss running the show instead.
>>63405038
Delete this.
It'll be the same thing but with misunderstood totally not gay young men instead of cute women.
>>63404853
To be exact, River is human + Time Lord. She's a human but with some Time Lord parts added. It's probably not "half".
>>63405098
Exactly. Half human actually has some biological context. It was a jarring and unnecessary change, but it wasn't exactly retarded and it was even something a good writer could work with.
Whatever monstrosity River was supposed to be was outright ridiculous.
>>63404432
>wrong about the hybrid being half dalek as that would never have happened
>>63405126
Apparently, if you fuck in a TARDIS, then Madame Kovarian and her Silence can modify the baby so it can regenerate.
>>63405161
He said that Daleks wouldn't allow it, and they didn't.
>>63402945
Transniggered out of existence is my new favourrite meme
>>63403318
>Clara will return in some capacity
I highly doubt it. Jenna Coleman is going to be too busy to come back as a companion and Moffat will be too enamoured with his next "bestest cumpanyon evur" to give a shit about writing Clara a cameo.
>>63405172
Ridiculous.
You'd think that the confirmed canonicity of that bullshit would make a half-human Doctor an even easier concept to accept.
>>63404776
>>63404710
>>63404704
>>63404678
>>63404661
>>63404659
>>63404651
>some dickhead at Fox 20 years ago Sat down and wrote that line, without any idea of the shitstorm and ravaged rectum it would cause
>>63405209
I don't know where I am. Pancakes pies SPLINK
>>63405243
And the best part is that dickhead's still a better writer than Moffat.
>>63405236
>implying Clara and Ashildr won't return in Moffat's Journey's End
>>63405012
>Doctor Who Eats a Full Cup of Diarrhea
I'd watch it.
Are you still going to call Death in Heaven bad?
Doctor Wu and the Sushi of Death
If they could get Jenna to come back, the Diner could appear in one of Moffat's Doctor Gang episodes with the Paternoster Gang, UNIT, and River, but they'd have to not interact with the Doctor much.
>>63405258
In Moffat's most recent interview he said 2 interesting things
>he this was the only finale he wrote where he didn't know if he'd be back next series. So this kind of was his Journeys End.
He has since been confirmed as showrunner for series 10
>Russell T Davies helped brainstorm this episode
>>63405348
>Russell T Davies helped brainstorm this episode
Source on this?
>Want to come with me? All of time and space?
>Yeah!
>Just one thing. Before we go, you should know that this will end with your death about two years from now and I just wanted to know if you're okay with that.
Let's rate the finales!
1. The Big Bang/The Pandorica Opens
2. The Name of the Doctor
3. Bad Wolf/Parting of the Ways
4. Dark Water/Death in Heaven
5. Turn Left/The Stolen Earth/Journey's End
6. Heaven Sent/Hell Bent
7. Army of Ghosts/Doomsday
8. The Wedding of River Song
9. Utopia/The Sound of Drums/Last of the Time Lords
>>63405269
Jesus, anon, what's your deal? It's a better idea than anything Gatiss has written.
>>63405382
Heaven Sent alone makes the whole thing better than Dark Water/Death in Heaven, which was shitty in its entirety.
>>63405382
Shouldn't it be Face the Rave/Heaven Sent/Hell Bent?
They were all directly linked to each other. It was a three parter.
I miss I am The Doctor playing through the Next Time trailer
>>63405421
Not OP but at least it had Missy and a coherent storyline. Also it didn't totally ignore Gallifrey which was the main focus of New Who since 2005 and Clara's departure was better. Forgetting Clara was stupid.
>>63405441
I miss I am the Doctor.
>>63405348
>>63405444
>Forgetting Clara was stupid.
Literally the most original companion departure in doctor who
>>63405421
What >>63405444 said. Heaven Sent doesn't work after the first watch.
>>63405435
Yeah, but doesn't change much. Turn Left was still better.
>>63405512
It's a great standalone. Hell Bent ruined the arc, but it didn't hurt the atmosphere, tension, and performance of Heaven Sent.
>>63405382
Last of the Time Lords should be on top instead of with Utopia and The Sound of Drums on the bottom.
>>63405499
Oh that I agree, but it was stupid, he said Clara had to forget him to keep her safe from the Time Lords (for some reason since I don't know how memories can help them track her down), not the other way around. Here, he just forgot her for no reason. Plus she's been part of his ENTIRE life, with the 900 years on Trenzalore and the splinters. It's ridiculous.
>>63405556
Clara splinters never happened, that timeline was retconned once the doctor was given more regenerations and 11 didn't die on trenzalore
>>63405382
>>63405435
No. IMO Heaven Sent shouldn't be there, and Turn Left shouldn't be part of the S4 finale.
Just because an episode has a cliffhanger at the end, it doesn't mean that it's the same story. The classic series used to have cliffhangers between stories all the time.
Utopia is a different matter since it reintroduces Jack and the Master and lays the groundwork for the Toclafane stuff.
>>63405545
Yeah, but like I said, Heaven Sent only works once. Just like Listen or Midnight or Sleep No More. Doesn't make them any worse of course but for a finale it doesn't quite work.
>>63405571
Moffat said it happened because we saw it happen.
>>63405584
Turn Left reintroduced Rose, and laid down the ground work for the stars going out because of Davros.
>>63405617
Moffat's timey wiming, it 'happened' but in an alternate timeline that is no longer the 'main' one
>>63405617
True, but it also has a different villain from the next two episodes (the Trickster's Brigade) and if you watched The Stolen Earth without it you wouldn't have much of a problem following it.
Whereas without Utopia you'd lose a vital part of the plot.
>>63405594
You have a point. I have a hard time calling Heaven Sent a finale, or even part of the finale.
>>63405441
I miss The Doctor's Theme, apparently Moffat is afraid of playing any more than 5 seconds of it per year.
>>63405655
>All right -- let's pretend for a moment that the Doctor popped in from the parallel universe where he's real in order to explain Steven Moffat's plot holes. It seems plausible, right? Could happen! Well, according to Moff, here's what the Doctor had to say:
>Changing time is tricky. It’s a bit like a detective story: so as long there isn’t an actual body, you’ve got a certain amount of wiggle room – for instance, if the body has, rather conveniently, been burned on a boat in Utah. Here’s the thing: I can change the future so long as the future has not already been established as part of my own past. I can’t rescue Amy and Rory because I already know that I didn’t.
>But what do I know about Trenzalore? There’s a big monument that looks very like my TARDIS. There’s a temporal fissure leading to my timeline. Maybe it’s my grave. Maybe, one day, it’s my burial ground. Maybe it is something else entirely, and we got it all wrong. Don’t know. Don’t plan to find out for as long as possible. The main thing is, Clara still jumped into my time stream, and ended up helping me through all of my life. All that is established, unchanged – but there’s wiggle room!
>>63405676
You have a point there.
>>63405709
Me too. It's too out there to be considered part of the finale.
>>63405754
But how did he get out? all 11 said is 'because it's impossible and you're my impossible girl'
but that's not a reason
and how did he talk to the war doctor while he was down there?
how was the war doctor at the bottom of his time stream too?
>>63405594
>>63405545
Well why does it need to work more than once? Even if we're going off of first viewing standards, it was still a hell of a ride.
The exploration of the Doctor's character, the scale, the pacing, the way it all unfolds bested a lot of the stories on that list.
What about it makes it lose 'finale' status?
>>63405435
>Face the Rave
No that's an episode about his new screwdriver.
>>63405382
>The Big Bang/The Pandorica Opens
It's the other way around.
>>63405754
The wiggly room!
I think he was pretending. I think he remembered.
He knew the Diner had moved since Amy and Rory. Buildings don't move, Tardises do. He's not surprised when the Diner disappears - he knows it's a Tardis. Knows it's a Tardis - knows it's Clara inside. He sees the painted picture of Clara on his own Tardis and is not surprised she looks just like the waitress. He was faking the memory loss or he remembered but with no one to talk to he just didn't say anything.
>>63402945
Put Moffat on the next shuttle plz.
>>63405830
I think what he means is it isn't explosive enough.
It was more psychological horror character study than anything.
I disagree that it works only once; I fucking loved it on repeat viewings. Note, however, that I've only watched Hell Bent once. I may only ever watch Hell Bent once. I only consider Heaven Sent part of the finale because, officially, it is.
>>63405887
Of course he remembered. Him playing her song gives it away. And you think he flew that close to them by accident at the end?
He was just ready to finally part ways.
I've often wondered if the online negativity towards Jenna may have had something to do with her leaving the show. It looked like she was all set to leave at the end of series 8 but changed her mind last minute after Peter and Steven ambushed her and asked her to stay. Why would they need to ambush her? Were the higher ups threatening the show if Jenna left?
Was she going to walk out at the end of series 8 and leave them hanging? This is all speculation of course but then Moffat talked about how late he was writing last year's Xmas special because they were still waiting on Jenna's descion. It does make an interesting story that's for sure and it wouldn't surprise me if the fan hate caused Jenna to ultimately leave.
Rassilon's gonna be pretty fucking pissed with The Doctor for having him kicked off of Gallifrey
Maybe he'll be the main villain of series 10
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>>63406091
He was faking it.
>>63406091
He faked it. Just like when he pretended to let Clara throw away his keys. Even threw in goofy pie sound effects for his own personal lulz.
>>63405258
No because he'll have moved on to some other hole being the most important character to the doctor ever.
>>63406091
It's an echo of the two of them lying to each other in Death in Heaven
Buckaroo Bonzai reference. Nice.
>>63406091
Why would the doctor lie about not remembering what clara told her in the cloister?
>>63405887
So this was a reference to that time they told each other a lie so they would go separate ways?
>>63406433
Yes.
>>63406335
To make the lie more convincing.
just rewatched the Diner scenes
I don't think Doctor remembers her
