>>64051489
>>never know anything but sterile order, surveillance, obedience, and cruelty
I don't remember this part

>>64051489
You know people get born into religious cults and still leave to become normal people right?

It's pretty clear him having what we'd call "normal" personality is why he left. Brainwashing is never perfect. Fuck, even Clones detracted in that cartoon show /co/ loves so fucking much.
Everyone's favorite EU character was a stormtrooper. Now granted he joined up in his mid to late teens but it's similar.

The only way this complaint works is if you think brainwashing is 100% effective and never fails, that's fucking stupid.

>>64051561
Did you see Star Wars Episode VII The Force Awakens?

>>64051619
I saw it twice desu

I ended up really liking finn, and I enjoyed the idea of a stormtrooper not being a clone and seeing the horrors of war and defecting.

The thing that I didn't like was how fast the character development played out. As soon as you recognize the one stormtrooper behaving slightly more humane, you know right away what's most likely going to happen with him and just like that, the arc from bad guy to good guy is fin(n)ished. It would have been way cooler if maybe he had done a couple of missions before questioning his orders and loyalty. But the movie has him instantly being against what he was raised and conditioned to do without actually having done anything.

>>64051613
>leave to become normal people right

And he didn't turn into a normal person. He just was one immediately for some reason. We know for a fact from extensive that childhood trauma, abuse, and upbringing is hugely determinant of how the adult will think and behave. The fact that Finn knows how to function outside of the system of the Order at all that he was born into is bullshit, let alone be personable, non-violent, and have some moral fiber that other troopers didn't.

>>64051640
Then how come you don't remember the movie? Did you not like it?

>>64051489
But how is he supposed to make "funny" quips!?!?
>>64051561
Do you have "force amnesia" like Rey?

>>64051489
>caring about logical consistency in a fucking Star Wars movie
He had a good personality because it made for a better, funner movie.

>>64051489
>tfw I loved le sweating black man meme but now that everyone's seen the movie it isn't coming back
F

>>64051738
>>64051750
When in the movie did they show Finns upbringing

>>64051889
Yes, by showing life as a storm trooper

>>64051489
By your logic people who are born into Scientology and leave are faking it.

>>64051889
When it was described, first, and then when it was shown he was a Stormtrooper.

>>64051738
I like how you're playing psychologist. Nothing you added changes my fact that people grow up in cults and still leave. You take it so literally that I said "become" and I could do the same thing to that "immediate" change is still becoming something else. Nitpicking language like that is a shitty way to argue.

>>64051889

They didn't show Finn's upbringing anon, but every single thing we are told about, and shown of the First Order stormtroopers contradicts his behaviour. Shit, someone with a serial number instead of a name will NOT be cracking wise and asking girls if they have a cute boyfriend three hours after breaking away from the only life he's ever known.

>>64051912
>>64051951
Based off the other stormtroopers, the tr-8r meme that is so popular and the ones who avoided kylo fucking up the interrogation room, they have personalities and emotions. Sure they were indoctrinated to be loyal servants but they aren't robots

And like >>64051613 said it didn't work on Finn

>>64052066
So you're either a literal robot, or you're a quirky Joss Whedon character?

>>64051993
That's not nitpicking language but nice try, and yes psychology does back up my point.

>people grow up in cults and still leave
And we're not talking about a cult. We're talking about an army. We're talking about a human being raised in the conditions described in the OP. We have real world data on both child soldier behaviour as well as children who grow up in violent and abusive environments.

>people forget that finn was sanitation and had never experienced such a horrific event
the washing did not work on him. I don't know the full details of his life as a trooper, but the brief encounter he had with phasma on the ship lead me to believe he may have been coddled.

he was probably a laid back mofo during his days as a trooper. once he finally witnessed the type of evil shit they do, he snapped and decided to bail.

>>64052043
>conditioning overrides hormones
prequel tier stupidity

If you're so into the stormtrooper lifestyle affecting him, then how come you don't see asking rey about a boyfriend as the first chance to bang a chick? When does he crack wise? He's just panicked and lying constantly.

>>64052107
No... Finn just happened to be that way. The other stormtroopers are regular people who follow orders

Didn't I mention this in my last post

>>64052233
>Finn just happened to be that way
oh that's convenient

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i like the movie.could have been better and more original but it could have been way worst.

>>64052126
>child soldier
>first mission is in the movie

>children who grow up in violent and abusive environments
>treating your made up backstory for finn as canon

>implying the first order and the stormtroopers are in no way a cult
>implying a military force can't also be a cult, that they are mutually exclusive

please keep going, you're totally not embarrassing yourself here

that's gonna be the twist in ep VIII. He is brainwashed, but on a subconcious level and is sent as a trojan horse into the resistance. That's why Kylo Ren looked at him in the first scene. He'll probably be activated by some sort of word and kill Leia.

>>64052262
Adventure movies are about extraordinary circumstances

>>64052329
I thought he looked at him because he was trying to figure out why this nigga was just standing around, not killing people.

>>64052306
>first mission is in the movie
Yes that's right, do you know what "soldier' means?

>treating your made up backstory for finn as canon
The movie is canon.

>implying a military force can't also be a cult, that they are mutually exclusive
Sorry I guess you're right it's both a cult and an army, making my point twice as correct.

Thanks anon.

>ignore real world data
I accept your concession.

>>64052262
Is it? This movie is about him. This character

Is it convenient that neo was the kind of person who would be interested in learning the truth about the matrix and he just so happened to also be the chosen d one?

>>64052400
But his actions and the way he acts make logical sense. He didn't pop out of the matrix for the first time, throw up on the floor and say something "funny"

Some children born into batshit insane evangelist families are able to break free,same thing with muslims.
This shit happens in real life

>>64052460
I don't know what to tell you. Finn made sense to me. He had heard about the way regular people live and had never had any type of interaction like that. He even says this in the movie. Nothing he said was out of place for the situation he was in

And some of the dialogue, like asking Rey of she had a boyfriend was funny to the audience but he wasn't making a joke

He was entertaining, because he understands what star wars is, a children's movie. When you start to overthink it, it makes no sense. This movie was fun, but not for repeat viewings. There is nothing to gain from seeing it again. It was a fun adventure, and well acted.

The prequels had a main character who suffered, and his arc made sense, but Anakin was a boring character to watch, and it made the whole series feel like a chore.

>>64052385
>Yes that's right, do you know what "soldier' means?
Do you know what "child" means?

>The movie is canon.
Great, tell me when the movie tells you Finn had a violent upbringing.

>Sorry I guess you're right it's both a cult and an army, making my point twice as correct.
How fucking retarded are you to think that doubly serves your point?

>ignore real world data
You're ignoring everything about cults and military deserters. Even child soldiers defect and run away. They're haunted by shit, but it's not like Finn killed anyone or was in battles before he defected. He doesn't have the same trauma a kid who spends their teens murdering people does.

>>64051489

There are lady Stormtroopers. It's obvious that it's just like the real army where everyone drinks hard and fuck like rabbits when they're off-duty.

>>64051489
>stormtroopers
>not goofballs

Really? They were hardly all hard asses. I'm sure he had fun hanging with his stormbros off duty. Only captain Plasma was tough

WE WAS KINGS AND PRINCES AND SHIT

>>64051729
He was a janitor
He probably didn't get a lot of "shoot the villagers" orders
It might have been his first one, and since he knew Girl Trooper Boss wanted to see him he was in deep shit he escaped

The film should have been Po and Finm hanging out doing wacky stuff...maybe meet Ray and they both try to flirt with her or something

>>64052644
Yeah but they're always so fucked up that they can make reality shows based on their abnormal behavior. Finn is just a normal nigga even if he's a coward and he shouldn't be normal at all.

It's not just his character that's the problem, but also the lack of response from his commander or anyone else. For an organization that's willing to slaughter villages and destroy planets they run a pretty loose ship. Really Kylo? Stromtropper FN2187? The one who refused to shoot the villagers? Maybe someone should have looked into that.

>>64053933
>For an organization that's willing to slaughter villages and destroy planets they run a pretty loose ship.

What was your first hint? The way that literally no alarms went off when their most valuable prisoner escaped? Or the fact that their base has no security cameras?

>>64053933
As soon as the mission is over Phasma asks Finn to submit his blaster for inspection. Then he escapes before doing that. Then when they find out Finn with with BB-8 Kylo talks shit to Hux about his army.

Good try though.

>>64054109
>What was your first hint? The way that literally no alarms went off when their most valuable prisoner escaped? Or the fact that their base has no security cameras?

Not to mention they had one stormtrooper guarding her. One! And the hallway and the prison block in general must have been empty, because she just waltzes on out.

>>64051489
Did you not see the two Stormtroopers here Kylo flipping and just calmly nope the fuck out of there? Stormtroopers are people too, you know.

>>64051489

>Nazis
>Hitler Youth since kids; brainwashed from adolescence
>Serve in Wehrmact or SS and never know anything but order, obedience, and cruelty
>seen horrific violence

Yet thousands of WW2 German soldiers were somehow just normal guys with jovial and goofy personalities who made jokes, got along well with others and had good social skills

He was literally one in ten trillion. In a galaxy this big it's a mathematical certainty that at least one storm trooper would have personality.

>people in armies don't joke or talk shit about how awful their job is
now this is some retarded next level nitpicking
ask comedians and they'll tell you that their humor developed because of adversity they faced.

Yeah I thought all of them were clones and wandered why is he so different in personality. I realized they weren't clones when he mentioned his family. So they aren't clones just space jannisaries, right? When did that happen? Pls don't have a tantrum if it's some SW common knowledge, seen all of them long ago.

>>64051489
I don't get when people make this point. He was brainwashed into being a ruthless and unforgiving fighter, who knows how they train Stormtroopers? He could be fit to fight any situation.

Also, these aren't Clones, these are individuals stolen from their families at very young ages. They have personalities, and obviously Finn had enough humanity in him to know right from wrong.

Why isn't anyone pissed about fuckin Rey just being able to use the force and wield a lightsaber better than Kylo and mind tricks like they were nothing? That's bullshit.
>>64051613
This, he was ordered for re-conditioning before he rebelled

>>64054778
they were white though, so its understandable that they could still act like decent humans

>>64054857
And he just so happened to be in the right place in the right time not once, not thrice, but twice.

>>64055425
hes also in a universe with magic, laser swords, and guys named sheev

>>64054857
uh no. show us anywhere in any of the movies where your numbers are right. this series is shown to only take place in a handful of systems and planets. maybe a few billion civilians but only a couple hundred thousand soldiers in the entire saga. and in this particular movie it's far less.

>>64055425
Welcome to Star Wars. It's a fairy tale.

>>64054778
This

His switch from being a stormtrooper to good guy was way too quick. Also, everyone instantly trusted him even after he revealed what he was. It's like they've never heard of spies before.

>>64051489
>>>been waiting 15+ years to make some stupid ass jokes and try to flirt with a cute girl
>>>does so every chance he gets

For all we know all stormtroopers are loud and make dum jokes when not supervised

What I wanna know is:
1 If he was just a Janitor then why was he on the attack at the start?

2 What was Phasma doing down there where finn and han cought her....

3 Did he report to Phasma at the start after she tells him to?

Maybe Phasma is also a traitor or spy and she Finn is fallowing her orders.

>friendly reminder that this is Star Wars
>friendly reminder that it's just popcorn fun and only neckbeards analyze it days afterwards

>>64057039
>1 If he was just a Janitor then why was he on the attack at the start?
He was on his very first mission, gotta cut those teeth some how

> Did he report to Phasma at the start after she tells him to?
Nope, he fucks straight off and busts out Poe

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>phasma has less than a minute of screen time and dies off screen via a trash compactor

>>64051489
>leaves first order because muh killings
>has no problem with killing ex comrades that were kidnapped and brainwashed into fighting a war they may not even want to fight

>>64057039
Nevermind, Phasma is Reys mom.
Calling it.
Big force reveal coming sometime.

>>64057039
>stormtroopers do labor/menial tasks until they're old enough to fight
Yeah, totally illogical.

>>64057174
>phasma
>dead
pick one stupid

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>>64052296

>>64052296
>way worst

No wonder a retard that can barely speak english likes the movie

>>64053933

Well the Empire was always kind of a joke. Especially in ROTJ but also in Empire where Han tricks the star destroyers into crashing into each other and flying into an asteroid field.

>>64051489
I hated both Rey's and Finn's characters. The only true main hero of this film was Kylo. Kylo was a mess. You can see him desperately try to live up to Vader, but he is not. You can hear Leia and Solo talk about him, how losing him split them and the final confrontation of father and son. Kylo was a mess, a good mess.

Both these two dumb sociopaths. Fuck!

Finn has been trained as a soldier of First Order since a child. He doesn't even remember his parents. His loyalty lies with the Order and theres no going around that, or else the Siths are dumber than African warlords. You do not fuck something like that. But there is explanation, its just really shit. What I thought was PTSD, was the Force awakening. A force for good. First it looks like he is doing everything out of fear, but he didn't lie to Poe. He is doing it all because the good awaken in him.

>>64058248
(Cont.)
Reys a fucking a slave. Since child, she has scavenged scraps just to get fed. The only thing going for her is that her father would come back if she waited. You know shes Luke's daughter. With that final confrontation, tears in her eye's and camera spins. She knows nothing of the force. To her Jedis are a myth, a chidren's story. Yet she reads minds and controls Stormtroopers. She just put her mind to it and did it. All she knew, the Jedis breath fire and shoot lasers from their eyes. Kylo show'd her mind reading, but the commanding came from nowhere.

Both badly thought out characters on their own, but thats not where it stops. /pol/ was right.

Rey should be thinking only for herself after living as a slave, competing for scraps and meal tickets. Finn should be loyal to the First Order, or atleast afraid and run.
>Stop grapping my hand!
>Come with me
>No. No! No! NONO!

These two sociopaths come from upbringings that should halt the growth of your emotions. And they just want to fuck. Since their eyes first met, it hasn't even been 30 minutes. Its an action scene after action scene, from the desert to the bar. The only time we don't know is the hyper jump to Illenium System from Han Solo's spacecraft.

>>64058248
>>64058287
Fuck you /tv/ for loving this garbage.

>>64058248
>His loyalty lies with the Order and theres no going around that
very obviously not

>or else the Siths
Who said the sith are involved?

>but he didn't lie to Poe
actually he did, poe calls him out on it and finn admits he just freed him because he needs a pilot

>Reys a fucking a slave.
No

>To her Jedis are a myth, a chidren's story. Yet she reads minds and controls Stormtroopers.
Han tells her Luke is real (that scene is the only way you know to bring up the jedi are myths to her so fuck off) and then Kylo shows her how real the force is first hand.

>These two sociopaths come from upbringings that should halt the growth of your emotions.
Do you think it's an accident Finn is immature and Rey is premature or did you not notice it?

>>64052233
oh my days you fucking retards will defend this shit to the death

he was taken at the age of FIVE and brainwashed from then on. he didnt even have a name just a fucking number. none of them are normal people, they are brainwashed soldiers. stop defending obvious flaws

No one will reply but I thought Sanitation meant "clean up crew" for villages. Like extermination camps for jews type deal. I also figured this was Finns first real mission.

I may be dumb.

>>64051489
Stormtroopers have always been shown to have pretty casual chitchat among each other, it wasn't out of place for Finn to be fairly jovial at all. Remember, that extermination job was his FIRST mission, and he was on sanitation before, he probably spent all his time just doing the stormtrooper equivalent of goofing off.

And as for it being "bullshit" that Rey beat Kylo, well you couldn't be more wrong.
>>64058230

>>64058537
>>His loyalty lies with the Order and theres no going around that
>very obviously not
It should.

>>or else the Siths
>Who said the sith are involved?
No matter who, it still fails.

>>but he didn't lie to Poe
>actually he did, poe calls him out on it and finn admits he just freed him because he needs a pilot
Finn is a fucking black comic relief out of parody movie. And everything after crashlanding shows he is not running because he is afraid. He is doing what is right. Else he had ditched it all.

>>Reys a fucking a slave.
>No
Yes. Meal tickets are trademarkings of slaves.

>>To her Jedis are a myth, a chidren's story. Yet she reads minds and controls Stormtroopers.
>Han tells her Luke is real (that scene is the only way you know to bring up the jedi are myths to her so fuck off) and then Kylo shows her how real the force is first hand.
So now she can breath fire? She doesn't know what is real and what is not. Han only told her that its all real. The jedis are dead. Whatever she heard on that desert planet could not have been more then hearsaying.

>>These two sociopaths come from upbringings that should halt the growth of your emotions.
>Do you think it's an accident Finn is immature and Rey is premature or did you not notice it?
She survived and he is in a fucking army. If she was still a child, she should be dead and Finn was never trained.

>>64058608
"Brainwashing" doesn't mean they were turned into lifeless automatons. Look at the stormtroopers in the OT, they act like fairly normal people when they're just doing routine patrols, not icy emotionless killing machines, and roughly half of those guys are clones trained from birth, even.

It isn't like he was brought up in a cell and never had contact with anyone. He grew up with other stormtrooper kids, had friends and shit, developed his own personality, probably given leave once in a while and walked around the city, maybe even had gfs since we know that grills can be in the military now (Phasma).

Also enough stormtroopers decided to not follow orders that there is an entire "reorientation department". And no one had the reaction of "a Stormtrooper broke conditioning? Impossible!", which implies that he isn't the first Stormtrooper to ever go traitor.

>>64059250
all this shit right here

>>64059223
Its called propaganda. The outcome is not mindless zombies, but people who believe their actions are unquestionably right. Finn just happened to miss all of it.

>>64059250
He is not just renegading against his superiors. He is the amish thats certain theres no god.

>>64059324
there's countless stories throughout history of people defecting from similar regimes. he was put on sanitation for seemingly being a nuisance then when he saw combat he was like fuck this. he just didn't have the temperament for it.
he's an exception but he's not extraordinarily unrealistic like you're making him out.
in the OT when han and luke were undercover as storm trooper they interacted with real storm troopers and they just sounded like how you would expect people in a shitty military job to sound.

>>64054778
The Nazi regime lasted 12 years, the vast majority of fighters weren't born under Hitler. 'Brainwashing ' is definitely an overstatement on what the Wehrmacht s training was, too

>>64059455
you heard of rummspringa? tons of amish kids leave and never come back.

>>64059527
>then when he saw combat he was like fuck this. he just didn't have the temperament for it
What did they even teach him? He has been there for his whole live and, he can't even pilot, he can't raid small villages. You can teach man to kill in less than month. Is he seriously just a plummer?

>>64059527
There aren't, because we've never had a regime that successfully replaced names with ID numbers.

The fact that we're arguing about Finn's defection means that it was poorly handled. The plot of something like Star Wars should be very smooth and non-interpretive. This is neither.

>>64054778
Hitler Youth were the Nazi boyscouts. Fun times for all.
The Wehrmacht was the german army well before the Nazis came along. An army like any other - their job was to kill the enemy and follow orders issued from the top.

People who joined the SS did it because they were either complete sociopaths already, or because they sympathised with SS ideals. There was no SS draft, it was a separate organisation to the Army (wehrmacht.)

Imagine communists talking about US army men, Boyscouts, and KKK members never knowing anything but order, obedience, and oppression.

It's a good thing his callsign was NGR

>spend 13 months screaming and whining about why Finn is always panting and looking frightened in the trailers
>it turns out he actually has a completely justifiable reason in that he's absolutely terrified the First Order is going to come hunt him down and he'll never ever be safe anywhere
>op has the unmitigated gall to suggest that Finn "easily" shrugged off brainwashing
holy shit I've never seen someone try so hard at being so retarded

>>64059814
>The fact that we're arguing about Finn's defection means that it was poorly handled.
Literally the dumbest thing I've ever seen posted on 4chan in my entire 11 year career here. You SERIOUSLY think people here only argue about things that have legitimate concerns behind them? I would submit that you should return to reddit if you think we won't spend eight hundred hours arguing about the most absolutely trivial obvious easy-button nonsense bait devised by man at the drop of a hat.