>Our store switched to proxies before the proxy ban and two standard grinders hopped over to legacy and got first and second in their very first tournament with full proxy decks. Legacy players think they're special little snowflakes and tapping a turn 1 land wrong loses the match but they can't come down to modern or standard and perform with any kind of skill.
All the formats take skill and operate very differently, it's just eternal players need to feel special and justify their thousands of dollars spent to themselves. Playing the right deck and having a strong understanding of your lines of play matters more than the format.
Only bad players blame luck when we all know pros that are consistently successful at limited which is suppose to be the most luck intensive format.
Thoughts on this?
>>47384621
MtG is a children's trading card game.
>>47384621
>There are standard and modern players that can play legacy and do well
No shit. The rules dont suddenly become more complex just because the format changed
>Turn one meme
Unless you're referring to how legacy leaves less room to fuck up and turn it around, kill yourself
>Deck choice matters as much as skill
Correct.
>Bad players blame luck
Or in legacy they just ended up facing down Miracles and got a blind flip counter. As a miracles player, the butt-hurt resulting from the blind flip is what sustains us. But as a general rule, Correct. Legacy first, Limited second for me.
Generally I find ignorance of formats is what causes most of the hate towards those formats. Tons of stereotypes are true like elitism in legacy and spergs in public edh settings; but some of the hate for formats come from bad experiences like moderns recent Eldrazi Winter, or when someone faces down their first T1 kill deck. Personally I feel that proxied tournaments could save legacy as a local format for many shops. Many times the legacy decks Ill see in local tournaments will be budget decks and "FoW or Die" combo. Proxy decks tend to bring a wider variety of decks as the price barrier stops being such an issue.Pic related, I just like having people to play with
>>47385576
What exactly is the win condition in that deck?
>>47385603
Monastery Mentor or JtMS
>>47385603
I think it's getting off jace's ultimate and annoying your opponents as much as possible.
>>47385603
Miracles is a pretty shitty deck to lose to. Once JtMS or MM hits you are going to lose soon, but that doesnt come until about 20 minutes of everything being countered exiled and tucked and you thinking "just need one thing, just one thing needs to stick"
>>47385576
Jace should be banned and there is absolutely no reason for him not to be banned.
>>47385919
Why should he?
>>47385576
DREDGE
R
E
D
G
E
>>47385970
Not sure if I follow. Are you saying dredge loses to Jace? or Jace makes dredge too strong? or that the guy wanting to ban Jace is some sort of Nazi who plays dredge?
>>47385991
Dredge beats miracles, cuz it does not play the same game that miracles wants
>>47385950
Because he's overpowered in regard to literally every single other planeswalker in the entire game.
>4 abilities
>Can control what the opponent has to draw, control what an opponent has on the field, control what you have in your hand, and can wipe out an opponent's library and hand in one go.
>>47386028
>can't deal with a 4 mana sorcery speed threat
Go play memedern
>>47386051
>Can't deal with a 4 mana wincon in a deck with 4x fow to counter anything I try to use.
Go play outside.
>>47386072
Cavern of souls on eldrazi
Reality smasher comes down rekts Jace harder than I rekted ur mum
>>47386028
>Decks that win turn one reliably
>Decks that dont play magic, just some wierd graveyard solitaire
>Decks that make Jace cost 5-7 mana
>A plethora of turn 2-4 combo decks that win before Jace is possible
>>47386072
>Thinks FoW is a bad thing and not what holds legacy together
>Only has one answer to opponents threats
>Actually let a Jace resolve without his own threats sticking
So what deck do you play?
>>47386127
I don't play legacy because I like having $3,000 more in my bank account.
>>47386127
>>Thinks FoW is a bad thing and not what holds legacy together
>Thinking a free $80 counterspell at the cost of a single blue card (blue being the color that can draw over 7 cards in a single turn) is balanced
>>47386214
>>47386236
>I dont play legacy but I sure as shit have an opinion on it
>>47386214
>Not buying chink counterfeits
>>47386236
Or you are Mrk rosewater, or you are a retard who don't play legacy
>>47386236
So you'd prefer legacy to be composed mostly of 1 turn combo decks with nothing to hold them down?
Or would you ban all of those too?
>>47386236
Fuck off, legacy would be awful without force.
>>47386269
Dont you see anon? BANNING is the only way for a format to work. Otherwise nobody will EVER make new decks and tier one will eternally be the same 1-4 decks
>>47384621
>Only bad players blame luck when we all know pros that are consistently successful at limited which is suppose to be the most luck intensive format.
Yeah I don't understand this shit.
I used to play the shit out of limited every week and there were often times where the even the best pick was just terrible.
How the fuck are the pros compensating for this so consistently?
>>47384621
>eternal players need to feel special and justify their thousands of dollars spent to themselves.
I don't know why other Standard players feel offended by this. I mean in the course of a few standard rotations you are dropping almost the same amount of money.
Also. This weird divide between Eternal and Standard magic... I don't see it anywhere else except on the internet, and I have the good fortune of being able to access many LGS
>>47386236
FoW is the Fun Police of Legacy, and it's sorely fucking needed. Duals is what could be banned to make the format more accessible. Wizards could reprint FoW in every single set if they wanted, it's not even on the fucking List.
>B-But that would make Burn completely dominate the format!
No, no it would not.
>>47386273
There are literally no Turn 1 win meme decks at all. And FOW is overpowered as hell. Might as well give red a 0 cost lightning bolt that deals 10 damage to a player if they discard a red card. Might as well give green two land falls from tech deck if they discard a green card. Might as well give black another removal of they discard a black card. Might as well give white another removal of you discard a white card.
>>47386319
I don't see why sticking to legacy is better than standard. Sure you have that $3,000 deck, but are you going to play that deck and nothing else for 2+ years?
>>47386297
Part of the challenge of making a set (an by extension a cube) is minimizing this issue. You need to remember that shitty pack is for everyone at the table too. Most of your deck is made up of middle powerlevel cards and so is everyone elses. The top end is the luck of getting bomb rares/uncommons and the bottom end is the skill to know what color to move into/recognize garbage cards in your draft.
>>47386325
Legacy burn already has a lot of things to play with
And you realise FoW was part of a cycle right?
>>47386325
>There are literally no Turn 1 win meme decks at all.
Stop thinking in a vacuum and imagine what legacy would look like in world where half the format doesn't run force. Here's a hint, fast combo would be better.
>meme decks
If you have a point to make then make it, throwing in "meme" out of context is going to cost you a lot of credibility.
>>47386325
I know this is bait, but the black card you mention already exists
>want to play manaless dredge
>want to slowly get LED if I have fun
>spend less/equal on a legacy deck than I have on modern
>vintage form of the deck only adds Bagdad Bazaar
What's the big deal? I spent a grand on my affinity deck and it looks like most legacy decks cost the same as most modern decks.
>>47386391
Yes, but they made every single other card of that cycle suck literal ass. White gets a damage prevention spell when the majority of any removal is straight up destroying or exiling the creature.
>>47386325
You realize force of will is a cycle that includes a red damage spell and a black removal spell right? Oh who cares it must be bait if you think there arnt any reliable t1 win decks like belcher, cheerios, oops and a multitude of combo decks with 10-25% t1 wins.
>>47386425
Oh hey your just retarded.
>>47386403
That's not even effective in any format. If it was "destroy target creature" that would be different, but they decided just making creatures weaker is good when there are dozens of creature less control decks in the Meta.
>>47386443
Post one example of a T1 win deck. Pro tip: you can't.
>>47386470
>Pro tip: you can't.
Why are you even here if you don't play legacy?
>>47386470
It helps to read what someone posted before responding. It makes you look less like a drooling retard
>>47386443
>Black removal
The closest thing is one that makes you discard TWO black cards and does 4 life drain and one that does -X/-X where X is the removed black cards cmc. Now if force of will had the same drawback of "counter target spell of its cmc is less than the exiled cards cmc" it would be different. But no, just give blue all the free hard counters so nobody else can play the damn game.
>>47386508
>>47386498
It's your fault for playing such a broken format that need broken cards to fix it. Why play a format when it requires thousands of dollars per deck to be able to survive past T2?
>>47386541
Because the decks in the format are more interesting and diverse than whatever shitty format you play. Unless you play Pauper in which case you're just an asshole.
>>47386541
Legacy's brokenness is part of the fun, you mongoloid. When everyone's super, no one is. How hard is it to understand the appeal of a high-powered eternal format that let's you keep your cards forever?
If you think Legacy is too expensive, do what I do and just don't play. Let the people that already invested thousands have their fun and just play online or something else.
>>47386541
>killing X/1 and X/2 creatures doesnt count
>even if a majority of creatures are X/1 and X/2
The wide array of better options to contagion aside, why are you so fanny flustered about a card in a format you dont play? Legacy players dont shit up modern generals about banning lightning bolt or serum visions or whatever poor card is on the chopping block next. Why are you trying so hard to push something that is blatantly untrue?
>>47386772
meant for >>47386511
>>47386236
>>47386273
>>47386322
Shitposting aside, how would be a no FoW, no duals Legacy?, imagine for this exercise that WotC goes into a maddened frenzy of bans against everything that can win T1.
>>47387334
>>47387334
Landbases would just shift over to alternatives, albeit players have to think about the way they play them a bit more, instead of just getting perfect mana for next to no investment.
>>47387334
Did you mean Modern?
>>47384621
>limited is suppose to be the most luck intensive format
>>47388150
Limited=worst format ever
>>47388145
Well, it wouldn't be Modern. Lots of relevant stuff that aren't in Modern like JTMS and Swords to Plowshares would be in the format.
>>47388208
whatever you say fag
>>47384621
I got $50 placing 3/4 playing Manaless Dredge for the first time and retroactively joined the Hitler Youth.
It's not the most I've won playing magic since I'v top 16d GPs, but it's the most fun I've had picking a new deck. Legacy is legit fun unlike Modern's matchup russian roullette and Standard's facing the same deck 32 times in a row.
>>47386322
No-RL Legacy would be glorious.
>No turn 1 Belcher
>No turn 1 Storm
>No turn 1 Dredge
>No turn 1 Oops
But all of them can still win turn 3.
>Elves gets slowed down a turn
>Burn gets a minimum bump in power that only really affects Shardless making the match 100-0
>Mud is finally DEAD
>Eldrazi and other Stompy are knocked down a notch so we can play without Chalice at 1 turn one every match
>The Tabernacle is gone, Lands now needs to cast spells to protect itself.
Would be fun at least as an experiment.
>>47386422
Bazaar's MTGO card art being so gorgeous is an affront to all Dredge players who will never get to make people cry with that in realspace.
>>47391054
Enchantress dies
Omnitell became much better
Miracles will adapt to be undisputed king of format
Now, i don't know if karakas is in RL, but if it is, then emrakul and iona wil be free on the format
Overall is a no for me
>>47391130
Enchantress can trade Sanctum for Nykthos and stay firmly in it's tier 2 shit place.
Omnitell doesn't gain anything, it loses City of Traitors.
Miracles has to take damage or tempo loss vs Burn, considering that match always ends at 1-2 life, it means at least one more bad matchup for the countertop boogeyman.
Karakas is not resserved, S&T loses nothing.
