Hey /tg/, what's the most 'your dudes' game there is?
I mean, there is Mordheim, Necromunda, Kill Team, maybe even Gorkamorka, the 'new' Frostgrave and much more.
What are the most 'your dudes' mechanics you're willing to tolerate?
Would you have 10 soldiers with a personality for each? Different stats for each?
Bonding between them? Rules on what happens if one of them dies?
What are some unusual 'your dudes' mechanics or rules you've done in your campaigns?
Bumping with a few warbands
>>46502097
>>46502009
At a certain point your dudes mechanics turn into role-playing light.
I just want a tight and balanced rules set with lots of customization and inspiration for making all my minis unique and think up little backstories for them, but If you start to add personality rules you're just overcomplicating things without really making the game more fun to play.
Players should spend love and effort on the modeling and painting or hunting down fun minis to use, not trying to absorb a giant brick of rules and minmaxing, especially in skirmish and campaign systems.
I honestly like frostgrave because it's dirt simple stat wise and allows me to use all kinds of weird miniatures to represent the different kinds of goons and monsters, and a lot of the depth and fun of playing comes from stuff like how different actions and spells interact with positioning or terrain and movement, rather than just being simple combos.
>>46502215
True in a sense.
But there are some mechanics that could improve upon that.
I mean, there should be a level of sufficient crunch and rules balanced with a lack of rules that lets you imagine their interactions, personalities and so on.
Maybe you've found it in Frostgrave. I think the game doesn't have enough customization. I would need different warbands with different motivations.
And even if different wizards can have infinite motivations and you could pick whichever miniatures you like to play as henchmen, having an established lore or background for a warband sounds so much fun.
Maybe it's just me.
That's why I was asking about different mechanics or stuff you like about particular 'your dudes' games.
>>46502009
Check out Heralds of Ruin Kill Team. I don't even play standard 40k anymore because of it.
Bumping with more
I play Aos and it heavily encourages Your Dudes, so I jumped in and im making my own Nurgle warband. Im converting every hero to be unique and have his own name and(simple)story. Im not giving them much, just a simple bascktosry on my general and a line or so on the others; i like the history of my warband be defined by all the games i play.
>>46503310
>>46503371
He said a game, you need rules to be a game
>>46503864
God fucking dammit, every time
>>46503864
>>46503903
Don't turn this into an AoS thread please guys
>>46502497
I've downloaded the campaign rules, gonna take a look then
>>46503665
>>46504538
>>46504583
>>46504690
Sure as fuck not Warmahordes, that's for sure.
>>46505032
Warmahordes always seemed a little bit too much like a TCG rather than a wargame for me.
It's too reliant on combos.
And the idea of using named characters and all that is completely against a 'your dudes' approach
Infinity to a degree, but not as much as HoR certainly.
I'm interested in Frostgrave, though, and have a model that could fit as a wizard. Thinking I might jump on that as well.
>>46505209
By the way, does anyone has a link to download Frostgrave's PDF?
I'd buy it, but I'm really short on money right now, and the money exchange doesn't favor me at all
Infinity has too much named characters to be a 'your dudes' game, but maybe if you skip them, and customize them to a degree, since everyone is important in their own way.
The cheerleading effect certainly doesn't help
>>46504983
the most my dudes game for me is lotr sbg. one character (canon, non-canon or generic) doing lots of heroic stuff and getting into battles that could have been in the trilogy and commanding up to 12 dudes with him. the term is literally warband in this game.
>>46505366
I'd like to know more about the game as well, I'm considering shelling out for the PDF and possibly hardcover as well.
Anyone care to fill me in on stuff about it? What kind of dudes do I bring, how many, how does it play?
I figure I can use some character models and generic fantasy figures for anything special and a box of wargames factory stuff for generic dudes if need be.
Frostgrave, Song of Blades and Heroes, stuff like Warhammer Quest.
I was a 40kid, but as I've got older I now much prefer small, low-fantasy skirmish. As such I don't have a whole pile of fantasy bits, so I've bought a load of Heroquest/Warhammer Quest one-piecers and some Reaper Bones as I'm a cheap git.
GW are making a game provisionally titled Warhammer Quest: The Silver Tower. Set in AoS, 6 adventurers against a Tzeentch Sorceror and his Daemons. I can't stand AoS but I'll reserve judgment until I see it, if the modular dungeons are cool and the rules are okay.
>>46505366
Check the archive for Frostgrave Friday threads, it's in the OP
>>46504273
>I've downloaded the campaign rules, gonna take a look then
It's not perfect, but I find it more fun and, relatively speaking, balanced compared to standard 40k. That and the greater emphasis on narrative, Your Dudes, and not having to spend hundreds of dollars on one army is what makes it the only way I play 40k anymore.
>>46505032
>>46505168
It's a shame, because I love Warmahordes, but the lack of Your Dudes and fixation on combos is a little disapointing. I know Privateer Press did produce an article encouraging Your Dudes, and it certainly does help, even if I do it, it doesn't really matter since it seems like players that care about the fluff of Warmahordes are very few and far between.
>>46502009
I've always wanted to try playing a campaign with the old Realm of Chaos rules, which is definitely one of the most Your Dudes rulesets I've read
>>46505621
LOTR SBG is really enjoyable. Battle Companies was good too, but its campaign system was underdeveloped. Even if the game was quite simple (which is something I believe everyone appreciates), the rules for advancement were lackluster.
>>46506330
I guess there are certain mechanics that improve the 'your dudes' feel that Warmahordes doesn't have.
The fact that you control them as mindless drones and there is no morale whatsoever gives more the impression that they are robots or drones rather than actual people fighting those battles.
Having rules for campaigns is a must for me.
>>46506360
I think I'm not familiar with those. What is that?
>>46505514
>>46506399
To me, the problem is that Warmahordes doesn't really allow you to customize your units much. You can give them distinct paint schemes (although probably best to make sure that they at least partially conform to their faction, like Cygnar should have blue somewhere, Khador should have red somewhere, etc.), but the gear is all the same, both when it comes to warcasters/warlocks and units.
Gun Mages all have to use pistols, even though magelock rifles exist in the setting, for example, nor is there an option to build your own team leader. And I kinda understand why, since that does help with the game's balance system, it's just unfortunate.
And, like I said, it doesn't really matter, since I have yet to meet a Warmahordes player that cares at all about the fluff. Which disappoints me, since I love the world, and lore is probably a good 90% of the reason why I play any tabletop game.
>>46506821
it is 2 200+ pages books for both warhammer fantasy and 40k where the chaos gods are first fleshed out as well as many of their antagonits
It consists almost completly of random mutation tables and similar things.
I remember the rules for a game where you had a chaos warband came with a issue of white dwarf once. You could pay some points to roll on tables like humans, beastmen, daemons and gear for your dudes. Your warband got rewarded for what actually went down in games, so if you won you might get some tasty relics or bonus daemons might join you, and people who actually died in game were out of the game. I think the ultimate goal was to have your leader become a daemon prince without turning into a spawn along the way. I've always wanted to find some friends and play it but cant remember where I left the book for it.
It felt pretty serious on the whole "your dudes" front, as members of your warband who survived got better stuff and mutations and ended up becoming bigger and badder, and your leader basically becoming a self-insert if you really wanted.
>>46504538
what minis are these?
>>46506894
I'm all for lore and fluff. I didn't know most people didn't care about that.
Maybe it's Warmahordes' case because it's a tournament game almost exclusively.
>>46506977
Cool, didn't know that even existed.
>>46507239
Yes, I remember those too! The only thing I didn't like so much about that, and at the same time I love about those rules is having just one type of warband.
For one, you can make much more mechanics for the warband, and interactions between troops and everything, Hell, you can make the theme a thousand times stronger.
But the bad part is there is little variation, even if the faction itself is really variable, like Chaos is.
>>46507382
Red Box Miniatures, norsemen or barbarians or something like that
>>46507546
thanks nigga
I'm currently developing a wargame to be as your dudsey as possible because I was unsatisfied with the your dudsieness of other games.
I have a... fetish for old monopose plastic models. Heroquest, Advanced Heroquest, Warhammer Quest, Talisman, Battle Masters.
I think I enjoy the simplicity and cheapness.
>>46507682
Plastic monopose chaos warriors > the hunchbacks of norsca desu
>>46507674
I'm doing the same, that's why I created this thread, to get inspired! Good luck with your game man
>>46507682
I love monopose models. Don't really know why. LOTR SBG had a lot of miniatures with monopose that were fantastically sculpted. Of course, you need to pay a lot more if you want to make a monopose army that actually has variables.
Infinity's boxes don't have monopose, but they usually have torso and legs together, which I think it's great. I hate gluing torsos to pairs of legs. And it also gives the models more consistency
>>46507546
>Cool, didn't know that even existed.
Just a heads up they're ancient, like 1st edition 40k 3rd edition fantasy. Still a fun read though, and the campaign system is a definite precursor to mordheim/necromunda
>>46502009
From my experiences, any skirmish level game can somewhat become a 'your dudes' game after certain models seem to develop their own personalities during games depending on their relative performances.
As and Infinity example (the skirmish game I play the most) I have an Aquilla guard model that whenever I play with him always performs terribly but whenever I proxy him as a Hospitalier knight he has performed realy well. As a result I now only ever deploy him as a Hospitalier, seeming to be the only Pan-O doctor that doesn't kill every patient he tries to heal and putting down waves of enemies with his multirifle.
Whenever he plays as an actual aquilla he always seems to get imidiately crited by every ARO.
In his case I mind fluffed it that after being almost killed in battle he found god whilst recovering from his wounds and gave up his prestigious career as an Aquilla to serve as a Hospitalier.
I have head canon like that for other models but he is the most interesting.
I still can't find Advanced Song of Blades and Heroes anywhere, might have to actually buy it.
>>46507766
What are you going for?
I'm working on a fantasy too-big-to-be-called-skirmish-but-not-quite-a-wargame in which each unit has a mini rpg character as the captain with a huge focus on campaigns.
I just find most wargames especially not your dudes centric enough. Warmahordes Infinity and their ilk feel more like CCGs and warhammer and lotr and the like just lack very much at all in the way of customization.
Kings of War is your dudes as heck. Use any appropriate miniatures, multibase to make dioramas, fluff that's vague enough to leave a lot up to yourself. The magic items also let you tweak unit stats a little in order to get even more your-dudesy.
>>46507239
I had so much fun with Chaos Warbands. That was the game that got me into WFB.
>>46507924
I only have the old version
>>46504538
is that matthew mcconaughey
>>46507239
Anyone know of anywhere decent to buy single miniatures,? I dont mean like $10 heroes, more like I want a couple of Empire Militia/Frontgrave Soldier low-fantasy types, not a full box of 10 or 20.
Reaper Bones?
>>46507924
If anyone's curious, here's the latest edition of regular Song of Blades and Heroes. This is the Revised 5th edition, if you have the download that's floating about it's most likely the badly translated 4th edition.
Give it a read, nice simple little system with great adaptability, the Napoleonic "Song of Drums and Shakos" won an Origin award iirc.
Oh wow, I was just about it upload it >>46507978
>>46507966
It's literally the opposite of your dudes. You can use any models for any game and there is VERY limited crunch customization, the magic items are nice but not nearly enough to qualify it as a "your dudes" game. It's a competitive balanced game a la infinity and Warmahordes.
>>46508092
Historical minis are a good source of cheapo minis.
You could just buy a 30 dollar box of 40 perry minis and make a lot of warbands. If you really want to be inefficient about it historical metals are probably the way to go.
>>46508125
Evey single unit in both of my armies has its own name and backstory, none of which is competing with or contradicting established fluff. I can model them however I like, I don't have to represent specific magical weapons, have a musician, bearer and champion or anything like that. If I see some cool miniatures, I can use them- doesn't matter who made them, as long as they fit my aesthetic.
As far as Wargames go, I think it's as your dudes as they come.
>>46508187
My local department store stocks them, though they can't have been too successful as all the Napoleonics and American Civil War stuff is down to £10 a box. Unfortunately the English Civil War stuff, which fits low fantasy a lot better, are still full price.
>>46508249
You can do that in pretty much any game dude.
A game becomes your dudes when it has crunch to reflect your dudes dudsiness.
Kings of war has little obstruction to your dudes but it doesn't help them at all either because it's a lore and crunch blank slate. The only games that DON'T permit that level of dudeitude it ones like malifaux or warmachine where you HAVE to have named characters.
>>46508338
£20 a box which is .50 a mini is still fucking mind blowing dude.
Perry prices are based
>>46508079
Anyone got the 40k version of this?
>>46508387
There was one?
https://mega.co.nz/#F!pFgm0RKR!J06C1gVYcjzNGsF8YNLsjQ
probably in here somewhere
>>46508359
That's the thing, you really can't do it in every game. You have to model certain things to get crunch bonuses, or use named characters with established fluff, or they are set in a very defined universe.
Tbh I think we both just have differing opinions on what is more important in terms of 'your dudes', and that's fine
>>46508187
I'd recommend the Wars of the Roses range. Mercenaries and English are excellent for warbands.
>>46508092
I know you've literally just said you don't want a box, but the frostgrave soldiers box is excellent in terms of low-fantasy customization.
Other than that, reaper bones is definitely your best bet for single, cheap minis.
>>46508518
I would say a game is "your dudes" if it heavily encourages mechanically individualizing your army and emergent narrative through gameplay.
What I would call your conception your dudes is pre-game narrative freedom, but it isn't farfetched to call that "your dudes"
I would definitely agree KoW has very high narrative freedom/your dudes under that meaning, and I like the game a lot, and I think our disagreement is largely semantic.
Luv u bb.
>>46502009
>Frostgrave
This is it for me desu.
Thing is the rules are abstract enough that you can do whatever you want with the theme and setting.
>>46508359
>when it has crunch to reflect your dudes dudsiness.
Not true in the slightest. That's grade A autism.
"Your Dudes" USED to literally mean you just named your guys and had little backstories. I NEVER saw the level of "MY GUYS" wank before coming to /tg/ where you people literally need little house rules for everything so your guys are super snowflake special. This wank is also pervasive in 90% of the fluff you guys make up too. It's terrible.
You need rules for social interactions as a captain in your little wargame? What? Really?
>>46508604
Aye, I've just found a guy in eBay listing individual sprues (so 5 models) from both the Warriors and Cultists boxes at £5 each, same price per model as the full box, so I might pick up one of each. I'm assuming that you just get 4x the same sprue in a full box and there's no extras or anything.
I'm working on a group of My Guys for my Space Marine army... but I wanted to make use of those cool formation things from one of the books. The whole Company Captain formation, IIRC?
But yeah, I'm working on my Chapter Master and Company Captains. Already got the Chapter Master done (Stormbolter and Thunder Hammer) 1st Company Captain (Dual Power Fists) and 8th Company captain (Jump Pack and Thunder Hammer, not sure if Storm Sheild or Storm Bolter)
Next up is the 3rd Company Captain with Storm Bolter and Storm Sheild.
>>46508871
I'll post pictures when I get home.
>>46508862
I have a cultists box here and can confirm that is the case. Would assume same for soldiers.
>>46508871
Pics plz
>tfw everyone near you plays either "line up 3 big plastic Knights/Riptides"Hammer or Warmautism
>no comfy scenario, like a 10-man warband protecting a baggage train through a city, on a nice board
>>46509226
in fairness a knight army is Very your dudes friendly, but smaller scenarios would be neat
>>46509266
>>46509226
Knights are so fucking dumb, why even play miniatures games if you're just going to wack down some ugly ass thing half the size of your torso.
>>46508861
Dude lol just play the generic fighter sheet, why do you want to make a character? Just name him whatever you want.
>>46509523
Are you being retarded on purpose? Or did you miss the point because you're actually mentally handicapped?
Cause names got nothing to do with it you doof.
>>46509225
As I said, I'll do it when I get home
>>46507940
I'm going for a really small scale skirmish game heavily objective based.
6-10 dudes per side, with high customization, and even higher progression and campaign potential.
>>46508861
Stop being so autistic, friend.
It's true "your dudes" used to mean that, but what's wrong with some mechanical stuff and crunch to go with it? Progression in a wargame is always fun.
>>46509226
Man, what a nice board. My board is completely filled with cardboard buildings ugly as fuck. At least it's functional, but horrible.
I should spend more time with terrain.
>>46509401
So true. I hate those minis for that reason.
Warhammer has lately evolved in "3 units of 40 dudes and 2 big ass creatures", and since sculpts are worse every year, I hate that fucking game.
Even Warmahordes has those huge square-looking lumbering jacks or whatever that are fucking awful.
>>46509727
>I hate that fucking game.
then you hate wargames
>>46510036
It's true though, Warhammer 8th was terrible. Same as 40k 7th.
>>46509727
Skirmish level is boring and small
>>46510036
actually if you LIKE Warhammer you hate wargames because that means you are perpetuating a bad company, bad game and IP that should die in a fire with its fans, you are what is slowly killing wargames and I hope you die of brain cancer
>>46507546
>Maybe it's Warmahordes' case because it's a tournament game almost exclusively.
Might be. I think part of the reason, honestly, is that it draws a lot of 40k players who don't like the lack of balance, whereas Warmahordes is said to be a fairly well-balanced system; so a large part of its player base come for the mechanics primarily.
>>46510125
Actually, you sound butthurt and you would probably be better off playing RPGs where you can circlejerk about your super special characters.
>>46510365
fuck off 40kid, your setting is garbage
>>46510421
I haven't played 40k in over a decade friend.
Your butthurt autism is showing.
>>46510421
rekt
>>46510036
Last edition of WHFB was extremely bad. WH40K is the same.
You spend little time making decisions and too much time rolling dice and awkwardly moving your troops.
Miniatures are glorified hitpoints in those games.
Too bad. WHFB 6th edition was one of the best wargames I've played.
>>46510084
Well, we all can have opinions.
I find it's really good for 'your dudes', and it's also really tactical if you've designed each unit differently or give the players the chance to fill different tactical roles with equipment.
Bumping with further warbands
>People that want self-inserts are immature children.
Who would have guessed?
>>46511086
Nice bait.
>>46507940
You know you can do your own thing, but my input is don't make another bloated-skirmish scale wargame in 28mm. That is an absolute dealbreaker for me personally.
>>46511237
What do you mean bloated-skirmish scale wargame?
Define which games are like that
>>46511266
>too-big-to-be-called-skirmish-but-not-quite-a-wargame
This.
>>46510036
8th was pretty shit
>>46510125
>If you don't agree with me you hate america
>>46510365
Autism
>>46511237
The idea isn't to be a skirmish, it's to be a wargame where each unit is a character so to speak. So your block of halberds get's better over time and learns new orders and the like as their captain also gets more experienced, loses an eye, gets a hatred for orcs, that sort of thing.
>>46511309
That mostly just refers to the unit size. You won't be running around with 15 guys each who's their own unit you'll have maybe 40 guys broken down into 6 units.
>>46511309
That would mean around what? 30 models?
I think games with 8-10 models per side are actually really fun, because you can have a lot of depth.
Games with 30-40 models have to be streamlined if you want them to last less than an entire week.
>>46509226
>>no comfy scenario, like a 10-man warband protecting a baggage train through a city, on a nice board
>A team of Sisters led by an Inquisitor guarding a train as its pursued by a squad of Slaaneshi Chaos Space Marines.
Oh man, I need to do something like this for my upcoming HoR narrative campaign. Thanks for the idea, anon.
But how might one get a train terrain piece that could integrate models like that?
>>46511332
>you'll have maybe 40 guys broken down into 6 units.
>all this book keeping.
>literal autism.
There's a reason super involved narrative games are kept small scale you autist.
>>46511386
30 Models is bloated skirmish.
a dozen is probably the highest end you want in a really complex skirmish games, and even that gets tedious.
I can tell you niggers never played Gorkamorka and those other games.
>>46511266
I meant like 40k and warmahordes, where what's going on has never made sense to me - in WMH either you have to assume that what you're looking at is a crop of some bigger battle, or that military engagements are the most powerful individuals in the setting getying into punchups with 20-40 other people. WMH frustrates me because the scale of the game doesn't match the fluff very well, I suppose. 40k is a skirmish ruleset that should have been scrapped and rebuilt a decade ago IMO but every year gets more bloated.
So really I guess I like my crunch to match my fluff, and for the latter to be somewhat plausible, or at least internally consistent.
Thinking about how tired I am of batch painting shit for WMH/40k scale games (# of models, not 28mm) kind of made me knee-jerk to your idea. After a little consideration 3-6 distinctive warbands of <10 models with a unique hero in each actually sounds pretty bitching. Compared to WMH at least where your units of 10 guys are very homogeneous and bland.
>>46511576
>40 guys broken into 6 units is a lot of book keeping
I know you're not very smart anon, but "move 5 guys at once that look similar" is something even 40k players can do.
>>46511576
That's what I was saying. I'll keep it around 6-10 models (I'm the one who said that earlier, this post >>46509727)
Nope, never played Gorkamorka. Too many models and too much bookkeeping?
>>46511627
Adding your little retarded narrative stuff on top of that of course.
>>46511529
Perhaps it's actually a train, and you use the rolling terrain rules (Imperial Armor 8) for what's not the train, with open-topped skimmers skirting the sides dropping off Slaaneshi Cultists and Space Marines before breaking off, or simply attaching to the train, extending the game area on successive turns.
Great Train Robbery scenario.
>>46511652
Again, I understand you have your difficulties, but a special rule or two is something most players don't find daunting.
>>46511636
> Too many models and too much bookkeeping?
Yup. It gets bloated really fast. There's a reason that you can't really get past 15 models without difficulty.
Same with Mordheim. Which is a lot more like this mexinigger is trying to puzzle out.
>>46511386
Mordheim with even 20 guys gets annoying to play. And that has minimal book keeping.
>>46511732
>You're actually autistic.
You're literally just describing Mordheim with more models at this point.
Well done.
>>46511785
If "models with special rules and a campaign" is your criteria for "literally mordheim" then I guess there's a few dozen editions of mordheim out there made by other companies.
>>46511694
I meant what terrain could I use to represent the train.
Buuuuuut that makes it sound even cooler.
>>46511785
>>46511845
strictly speaking that's not even wrong.
Seriously though could you two just shut up?
>>46511916
A man's got the right to get into a pointless anonymous argument on the internet when someone calls him autistic anon, that's a fundamental human right
>>46511845
>Fantasy Skirmish "but not!" with heroes with special rules and units of generic foot troops with campaign type progression for all involved with no real cap on army size.
Yup, that's literally Mordheim you dumb nigger.
>>46511984
>Sci fi wargame with special rules and generic foot troops and a few special characters with a pick up game focus but with less models
I guess Infinity is literally 40k.:^)
>>46512059
No that would be kill team.
You tried to look clever, but you're still just a dumb nigger.
>>46512090
I know you didn't grasp this but the point was to compare two terribly different games with as tenuous a connection as the one you made.
>>46512111
Stop trying, you're obviously just another dumb nigger.
>>46512137
I'm hurt you would say something like that anon.
It's mean. I'm very upset.
Probably with the 4E base tactics games that Wizards put out
Something like Frostgrave or Kings of War which let you use any models you want are also up there
>>46512315
You know whats a real shame? Wrath of kings.
Quite a nice rule set but the shittest lore and minis this side of the Sun
>>46512397
I know, I was really hoping that it would be closer to confrontation in style. It has one of the better skirmish rulesets in recent memory though, but as the official figures aren't optional, you can't just convert up some dudes like in your picture and have to stick with the wobbly yellow plastic that they use.
>>46505653
Does anybody have a pdf of Song of Blades and Heroes?
>>46512397
>not liking spaghetti squid man
where did CMoN touch you?
On topic though I would easily recommend Songs of X as a system to use over mordheim. as mordheim had a lovely setting but its rules were and still are standard GW dreck.
>>46512595
>>46507978
>>46512640
Coreheim is breddy good
>>46512640
Song of Blades and Heroes is a lot mroe open and general, and has rules for any fantasy thing you can imagine, even big dudes.
Mordheim is much more focused, and is loads of fun, even if there is some broken shit. But for a general skirmish system, there is no competition.
What do you guys think about a small scale skirmish level stats?
I think that Fighting/Shooting/Strength/Defense/Agility/Attacks/Wounds/Leadership system has been used to death, but is also pretty effective...
I don't know, maybe it's because most things I've ever played have stats like that, but for character progression and everything I think it's much better than a ton of special rules SoBH style.
>>46513433
SoB&H only has two stats ans special rules.
>>46513433
What One Page Rules does with the quality rules. That way there is more focus on kitting out units.
>>46513433
Mix of both is best. Special rules obviously make things feel unique while increased stats give a solid sense of progression because your dudes are "above-average".
Honestly those stats just boil down to something like this;
>Attacks (CQC/Shooting)
>Physical (STR/DEF/SPD/ATKs w/e)
>Mental (Leadership w/e)
>>46513483
That's the problem.
What do you rather have? A movement stat that tells you EXACTLY how much you move and can be increased easily and gradually, or a special rule that says "Slow/Fast/Pretty Fast/Mid speed/Highway Fast/The Flash/Fucking Jabba The Hutt Chained To A Truck"?
You should have stats for things that are used all the time, and special rules for those thing that are... well, special.
>>46513502
What do they do?
>>46513433
For progression you definitely want to have more stats because pretty much as soon as you break 3 special rules it's gets a little silly. You can do away with a few, wounds is easy to get rid of for example, and can be rolled into toughness, and you can condense other ways, but I think a fairly large stat line is best for progression. You can theoretically go as high as 10 before it gets ridiculous as long as you don't need of use all of them all the time, and it gives way more options for advancement. If a guy can choose between aim offence and defense with every other level or something that's much better than "one point in combat"
>>46513585
wel there is a certain appeal to a character being two numbers and some words but It dosen't work well for progression I agree.
Sob&h is more of a narrative campaign game then a competitive rpg like mordheim
Chaos Space Marine Chosen and Space Marine Commands squads have a lot of Your Dudes customization.
Too bad they're only competitive played as special weapons teams.
>>46513433
I like Move/Att/Def/Magic/Leadership, ranged proficiency can be represented with abilities, same with fancy weapons/armor. magic could be rolled into leadership.
>>46511529
>using an army of girls
>>46513605
I tried with offense and defense, but the truth is, I really prefer opposed rolls, like LOTR SBG or Infinity, rather than an "attack and defend" mechanic in melee.
I like wounds since it saves the characters after a bad defense/toughness/whatever roll, but it's true it is not necessary.
What would you add?
How many ranged attacks for example?
Maybe even doing something like Leadership/Willpower, dividing the stat
>>46513890
I like resolve/discipline but that's more like a wargame thing
>>46511529
>But how might one get a train terrain piece that could integrate models like that?
One last bump before I go to sleep. Don't die, thread
>>46514445
>goblins
gross
>>46507940
Had an idea for something like that. Kind of like every unit is a Dogs of War unit from Warhammer, where each unit is a character leading a unit. The units would be generic, but the characters change it up.
>>46514516
There's a game that does that. Forgot the name though.
For some reason I'm thinking of Osprey Games, but I'm sure that's not where it's from.
>>46514043
I meant in a way that could reasonably fit 40k models and allow me to move them around without too much hassle.
But you're thinking, anon, and I like that.
>>46508079
This is so fucking cool, thanks anon!
>>46514764
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=y7k42dQYAP0
>>46511529
Get a model train of the right scale and run it around your board, or...
OR!
get that model train and put the moving parts on the sides, and put terrain over the moving bits and keep the train (where combat is taking place) in the middle. Move the terrain such that it looks like the train is actually moving.
>>46514786
Gods be good I miss the old white dwarf
The current version is 100% ads
>>46514764
I would make them flat terrain pieces, raised off the regular board if possible. 1-inch thick foam sheeting could make it work pretty well. Thinner sheets might work for the walls of certain eclosed train cars, while open ones could have boxes and crates for cover, creating fortified bunker positions or even claustrophobic mazes of shipping crates for CC opportunities.
>>46514850
The second one is essentially the rules for rolling terrain in Imperial Armor 8. I had a PDF of those pages before, but that was a while ago and this computer has gone through a couple of scrap data purges before I upgraded the storage.
So, I have always really wanted to My Dudes a necromancer and his servants. What game is going to allow that? Specifically focusing on the necromancer part.
Frostgrave? I've never really paid much attention to it.
>>46514894
Frostgrave necromancy is pretty fun, I have a warband myself. The caveat is that you can only control one undead at a time, and the zombie that you can create pales in comparison to the major demon and large construct that other schools can make.
Along with debuffs, the best way to roll necromancer is to play it like Pokemon. In game, take control of the strongest undead you can find, and slowly get better and better ones. Eventually you will have a wraith zipping around for you or a vampire that is nigh invincible in CC doing your bidding.
>>46514926
And if you want you can stick skulls on your warriors and say fuck it
>>46514894
Yes, the first supplement is focused on necromancy and has rules for becoming a lich through the course of a campaign.
>>46514953
>>46514926
Man, that sounds pretty awesome. Even if the rules aren't perfect, it's nice to see that they actually put effort into the necromancy part of it. I'll have to look into it more. Thank you for the advice,gentlemen.
>>46509226
well actually knights are pretty good if you want a small model count with a lot of personality, could be nice if there were more potential forces like that
Well, OP, you got me. Just bought Frostgrave on impulse and now I'm trying to figure out how to build a themed team.
>>46515110
its not the knights themselves so much as the power gamers they attract
>>46508187
>>46508338
>>46508548
Pic related, some guy made a couple of urduds warbands out of the WotR/Mercenaries sets
>>46514764
In the campaign paradiso book for Infinity is a sceanrio with a train.
A bunch of companies doing mdf scenery for infinity came out with a train later. Usually a bit pricey though.
>>46502009
Dev is one saucy looking fucker.
>>46502009
I have a question. Is this the Mordheim you're talking about?
> www.hong-crewet.dk/links/mordheim/
Except for Song of Blades, are there any other light fantasy skirmish rulesets out there I can just play with random miniatures?
>>46502009
if tehre is anything i consider, my fucking dudes. its these tanks
these are my dudes and i have not seen any grav tanks like them anywhere.
>>46517508
Tron tanks.
>>46517610
have not played in a long time but i saw that you can now field 9 fire prisms in a army, first of all wtf.
second i have no idea what colors i should use. i have green and yellow left.
I know, it's kinda unrelated, but there is no better thread to ask this right now, afaik.
For Mordheim, is there any warbands playstyle descriptions (like "X is quick, fragile, focused on N and K") for a new player?
Or, at least, power ranking, maybe.
>>46518767
generally no ones quick/fragile as taking many dudes is recommended across the board. Don't be the skaven player who masses slings, unless you want to win and ruin the group.
>>46519006
Are slings in skavens a no-no, or only massed ones?
>>46518767
Could you rephrase your question? I will try and answer it.
>>46519059
Thanks. Sorry, not good with English language.
How each warband plays? Pro\con of different warbands? What are they from the playstule point of view?
Something like this
>>46518767
Hmmm, you might wanna look at 1d4 chan's descriptions, it's pretty much that.
Don't know if a power ranking because it depends how you play them.
I used to play skavens and NEVER used the massed slings tactic, which I think is completely lore unfriendly and also cheap and breaks immersion. Some people would say Skaven are overpowered because of their slings.
Unrelated to that, does everyone agrees that Mordheim should be played with a lot less models than 15 per side? I always found it extremely bloated, and wasn't keen on the idea of troops actually progressing.
Now that I'm designing my own game, I think it's a good idea for troops to progress too, since you're having a complete warband made up of your dudes. The thing is, I have to limit their numbers a lot. And I was thinking if 6-10 is the way to go. Maybe even 8, but I'm worried it lacks tactical depth. I don't think it will, but I'm not sure.
>>46519113
6-8 units is enough moving parts for a game to work imo. More than that and it gets silly less and it gets uninteresting
I'm creating my dudes. Bad Moonz orks to be specific. Trying to emphasize wealth and economic domination somehow in them. Doing the basic ''ridiculous ornaments and exotic colors'' for nobs and HQ units while all regular boyz have shiny white teeth, because in lore the strongest orks punch the teeth from other orks to themselves. Since bad moonz orks tend to have fast growing teeth, it would make sense for the new grown teeth to be white while the older ones have significantly dirtier ones.
Besides these, I can't come up with any details to make my boyz special. Any ideas? I should be better at this since I study economics.
>>46519459
By units I mean single models, remember that.
But yeah, I guess you're right. Less than that and it's shit (like the new Warhammer Fantasy for example, in which people use 3 units of 50 infantry and a monster or two)
And more than that it might get pretty confusing. Even for games based around 'units' of models instead of single individuals
>>46519541
Try to do some status markings that show how wealthy they are.
I'll give you an example of real life; the nobles of the germanic tribes tended really well to their hair, that was a sign of wealth because it meant they had the time to do it, instead of being out there harvesting the crops they were inside their homes, grooming and braiding their hair.
That showed people that they could fight, becase they dedicated their lives to themselves and fighting, and nothing else
>>46502009
Did a campaign based on the old 4th edition Kill-team rules.
Setting was a civil war between Secessionist and Imperial units on a mining planet in the Armageddon system after the 3rd War. These guys were a veteran commando unit based on sabotage, and did pretty well for themselves.
Sadly the old 4th Edition Kill-team is a rather unbalanced affair and got pretty out of hand very quickly. With good mates it doesn't matter though.
Going to try out the fan Kill-team rules for the current edition though. Looking forward to some more control over individual models.
>>46512689
There is literally tons of competition for a generic fantasy skirmish ruleset. If you mean that there isn't anything better, I would reexamine that thought
>>46519837
From a gameplay perspective single models and units of guys aren't much different.
Both are the indivisible tactical item.
>>46520145
Give us some suggestions then!
Also building home brewed 40kek ork free boota klan. Rolled their back story with 1d4chan's generator and got the following. Pic related.
Ork war clan fluff HYDRA HUNTAS
>Type of war clan:
Proper clan
>Warclan colors:
Red
>Legendary Ork:
War boss who defeated a 'nid splinter fleet
>Favored God:
Mork and Gork!
>Warband size:
Lotsa boys, Boss!
>Ally:
Other Orks!
>Favored Enemy:
Nids
>Highest unit population:
Choppy and shoota boyz
>Best loot:
A big ole nid skull da meks killed. It was disassembled and put on the stompy meks.
When Cheef Teef was still just a wee little Nob, he raided a human settlement and found an old book. This book had pictures of a shiny metal man fighting a large dragon and becoming the ruler over his countrymen. He obviously couldn't read but the pictures were worth a thousand day dreams. Cheef Teef immediately set of to find a dragon with a couple of boyz. But all he found was some leftover nids scouting the planet. Seeing one that looked like what he saw in his book he jumped into combat. Once he tore it's head off with his Power Klaw named Throat Rippa he claimed himself a A warboss and went looking for more boyz to hunt down a real dragon.
>>46520381
Depend on the wargame. In WHFB or 40k, large monsters have advantages over large units in that while a monster loses wounds he doesn't lose fighting ability. A unit of soldiers loses dudes for every wound taken and so loses offensive power with every wound.
With games where casualties aren't pulled off the table(KOW? Warpath?) the unit of dudes and the big scary monster may be on a more equal footing as hit/suppression markers and so on come into play.
>>46520060
Yeah, most games have campaigns that unbalance pretty quickly, but that's at least part of the fun.
>>46520381
The problem is that, proportionately speaking, they can't cover enough of the table to say "they're in that position", someone can slip through the cracks, or someone can even send all guys together and just roll dice.
Objectives should make that a stupid choice, but some games don't even have actual objectives. Look at Warmahordes for example
>>46521397
but warmahordes has objectives, its just that caster kill trumps them, and its easier to try and set up an assassination run than play the scenario for the full turn allotment.
>>46520948
>>46521397
I was meaning that in my mind the distinction between single models and typical units is more or less unimportant for finding the optimal number of units, since the person I was responding to seemed to imply that it might be reasonable to shoot for more since they were single models. While units and individuals can certainly have plenty of functional differences I'm more referring to the fact that the optimal number of indivisible units is always about 6-8, 5-10 if you stretch it. Regardless of the mechanics or specifics of the game its almost always the best number to have actual tactical options but not have bloat, regardless of weather they are individual sci fi operatives of 60 man 6mm regiments, this fact seems to remain constant. As for the problem of scale you must simply view the board as larger so terrain gets denser and what is a position gets smaller, rather than the models as smaller. A position it not " in those trees" it's "behind that tree" not " in that watchtower" it's "in that window"
>>46522318
When I was getting into warmahordes I got bored incredibly quickly as I found my caster could just degenerate the game into a slightly unbalanced coin flip in my favor if he got within 24" of the enemy caster.
>>46503310
I love the lore of Warhammer, but why are all of their guns so damn stubby looking?
>>46522318
The thing about that is if you fail your assassination, odds are you've just lost the game. Going for a scenario win is a much lower-risk strategy, especially if you're playing a caster who doesn't specialize in assassinations. Most of the time, an assassination run is the product of an army specifically designed to kill the enemy caster (like a Caine2 list) or a last-ditch gamble because your opponent has dominated the scenario.
>>46523507
The designs are from the age when how easy it was
to sculpt/mold/cast mattered
>>46519055
People just get angry at skaven no matter what you do. To be fair they are a great warband with alot of solid and unique shit to them but even then shit like elves and vampire still push their shit in early game. and late game most of the factions balance out
I've slowly easing my friends into 40k with a Kill Team campaign - how can I make them get into the 'your dudes' spirit of things?
>>46524938
Additionally - any simple warband-based games I can get my friends into?
Thinking about getting a big box of Perry miniatures and having all my mates build war bands of 5-10 guys
>>46524938
Conversion, custom paint jobs, writing battle reports that detail each character or notable model's exploits on the field of battle...
Get them into the swing of things by incorporating RPG elements into it, and don't be afraid to bend the rules like throwing in character interaction, challenges, and items trading. Maybe they even get a little pushback from their own superiors or enemies outside the field, or rewards like commendations and medals for achievement on the field, or they're true independent operators and they've got to scavenge to survive, earning everything they have themselves.
>>46525090
Sob&h is simple warbands: the game. All characters are 2 numbers and a special rule or three.
Pdf is up in the thread and waeband builder is online somewhere
>>46524938
As mentioned above, check out Heralds of Ruin's Kill Team.
http://heralds-of-ruin.blogspot.com/p/kill-team-rules.html
>>46502009
The TnT game - discussed in other threads - is pretty "your dudes". It plays like a Fallout-themed Mordheim/Necromunda.
>>46509226
I have the dedication for this buti have no friends...
>>46529236
>go to an flgs
>find the wargamers
>play wargames with them
>after some time suggest forstgrave/mordheim/whatever
>profit
>>46514851
This is why i'm pretty much sticking to Visions.
>>46529323
Visions is nice but it's miniature porn not a hobby magazine.
>>46529266
But my Black Templar army is a mess and i don't know how to play
>>46529443
Have you considered "reading the book"
>>46529488
>making not only a giant skull for the daemon crab-tank's head, but a giant helmet for the giant skull
God I love Iron Warriors.
>>46529488
I did but it's so complicated, i'm afraid they'll despise me
>>46529893
That's pretty autismal m8. Just get together 750 points of black templars, show up and go "hey man I have no clue what the fuck I'm doing, want to play a game?"
>>46529964
Y-y-yeahcan you tell me clearly without breaking my heart how the fuck list construction works? Do i need a minimum of something?
>>46530225
If you're playing normally you need to have 2 core and 1 hq and can only 3 of each other type, a max of 2 hqs and 6 troops iirc
Basically that means you need at least one captain and 10 proper marines and you're golden
download battlescribe
>>46530309
That helped guy
>>46531807
luv u 2 bb girl
>>46528663
What is that? Never heard of it
>>46528663
>TnT game
>using acronyms to suggest games
>>46532976
This is Not a Test.
>>46502009
>when decent models are painted badly
Sad!
Looking around the web for Wizard miniatures I'm coming across a few examples of miniatures I've scanned over used as Frostgrave Wizards and Apprentices.
That said, seems like Reaper miniatures is bursting with a lot of choices for creatures, hired men, and wizards, though some more specialty models make great wizard centerpieces. Though I think thugs are a deal best bought by the box, as even cheap Reaper miniatures run a few USD a model where cheaper boxes can get you more men for it.
>>46519080
>>46519059
>>46518767
Do you have the rulebook? It has a summary of each warband's strengths/weaknesses iirc, you could also track down pdfs of the old Town Cryer segments from White Dwarf, I think there were only 6-8 but they had a couple pages of tactics for each warband
>>46536213
Thats one silly barbarian.
>>46536249
Pretty sure that one's Hasslefree Miniatures.
Wizard/Apprentice look like Rackham Confrontation.
Can't place the rest. Might be generic Frostgrave miniatures or stuff from other games. Also that boar in back.
>>46536213
>>46536249
>>46536292
>Pretty sure that one's Hasslefree Miniatures.
It's from Heresy. HF does have really big guys too, but they are less cartoony.
The wizard is reaper too I think.
The hencemen are Fireforge minis, done by the same sculptor as the FG pieces though.
>>46536292
5 are generic frost grave plastics I think, although the metal knights on the far right, the bow and the knight in the rear, and the axeman in the front are unknown to me, the sneaky fellow in the back is a reaper mini as is the boar
>>46536292
>Wizard/Apprentice look like Rackham Confrontation.
>>46536484
come to think of it you are right it's actually a rackham mini.
But Reaper recently added an 'evil' sorcerer to their bones range that looks somewhat similar.
Has anyone played Frostgrave? Thinking of starting with an Enchanter. The idea of going utility and building my own construct contraptions for henchmen sounds neat. The Granite Golem expansion adds a lot to that as well.
Hope they make more, perhaps an expansion for every school of magic.
>>46518767
So, I read rules and some warband books. And think, that Skavens and Ostlanders looks better for me, than other warbands. I liked Circus theme as well, but I really don't like fb nurgle miniatures, so I'll pass on CoC.
I tried to compare Skavens and Ostlanders. Do I miss anything? What would you recommend me, /tg/?
Skavens (no slings):
+ 6 heroes
+ Cheap numerous troops
+ Weak but fast
+ Ld 5 on regular troops (it's hilarious)
+ Magic in core
+ Easy to paint
+ Can buy them cheap - local skaven aftermarket (wfb)
- Most expirienced local Mordheim player plays Undead. I will be skrewed hard by psychology tests.
- Fast, but weak
- Almost no access to hired swords
Ostlanders:
+ Ogre
+ 7-8 Ld (it's reliably)
+ No youngbloods
+ Magic in core
+ Release the Squirrels!
- Only 4 heroes
- Slightly harder to paint
- Humans
>>46537683
>humans
>con
>>46504983
>low-tech beta uprising
>>46537882
Miniatures. Big-headed, not proportional empire troops (from gw) looks ... let's say "not very good". But skavens are fine (especially monks) - it's large bipedal rats, after all.
>>46538225
You can use any hundread years war miniature you want.
Buy a box of perry dudes and you got ~45 dudes.
The only thing different is that the WHFB stuff is more over the top.
Sculpting some poofy sleeves and beards will get you to the fantasy look though.
Or just check out other miniature ranges like Lead Adventure of Wargames Foundry (WGF still use some of the old warhammer moulds).
>>46514445
This here is probably one of the few cases in which a small warband does not make sense.
Goblins, much like ratmen and occasionally orcs, are that kind if race that would make no use of a warband. Their major advantage is huge numbers, since their main trait is the fact that while relatively weak alone, they pose a serious threat when backed up by a big enough force.
It'd make no sense fir such a social race to create small warbands.
The only exception is mordheim's clan eshin, cuz ninjas are kewl, but sneakyness and poisoned blades can only do so much
>>46538773
That's the common trope yes, but maybe these ones have a sense of purpose. Maybe they're the only ones left from their tribe. Maybe in their setting it's Mouslings vs. Goblins so it's not like there's stronger races around to bully them (sounds p. cool actually).
