How do you reconcile having both swords and modern guns in a sci-fi/fantasy setting being equally useful without relying too much on magic?
I want to build a setting/world where there is some sort of internal logic or at least reasonable arguments for having a character both using swords and guns.
>>46442947
>without relying too much on magic?
I don't, really. You can handwave it with power armor, better conventional armor techniques and materials to use on said power armor and energy shields, you can similarly handwave it with honorbound cultures, space combat being boarding operations where an intact ship capture is worth more than blowing the enemy out of the sky quick and clean, and so on.
I just say there's magic knights and wizards using enchanted pulse rifles, swords that crackle with energy and gravity magic beating up space mummies and bug aliens on Planet Awesome.
>>46443065
But can you not make any arguments for melee? I mean, you can always get bigger and better guns, but at some point your character might run out of ammunition, or simply cannot feasibly carry a bigger gun, or perhaps visibility and weather is a factor and you cannot really aim effectively. I always thought ranged weapons were largely ineffective up close, but with stuff like pistols I am not sure. If you are standing maybe half a meter from someone, could you still use your pistol effectively?
>>46443221
I theoretically could make an argument, but honestly without a little magical macguffaning I'm probably going to fall a bit flat.
So I don't try, kick everything to eleven and have fun without considering it.
>>46443332
Well I'm not saying magic shouldn't exist. In fact I do want magic to exist in my setting, I just don't want it to be common. Something like swords and guns being common, but magic being rare. I am taking inspiration from weeabo shit like hellsing, castlevania and vampire d, since my setting will revolve a lot around ancient and powerful vampires hiding in their uber-tech castles, and frankly, even if it is weeabo as fuck, those settings are pretty cool and I think it could work well having characters explore said castles to kill the vampire.
>>46442947
Stop trying to justify shit and just do it.
You want guns and swords? Put in guns and swords. Stop overthinking shit.
>>46443446
That sounds like bloodborne. Still, you could always say that melee weapons are better against monsters because the blessings used to make swords&co lethal for them need a wielder to channel their power through, so bullets or other ranged weapons wouldn't cut it.
>>46443491
Because nobody else seems to do this.
>>46443538
Bloodborne was pretty cool, I never got far in it though. Supernatural blessings could work, but then these would be pretty rare too.
What if I told you, and this is stuff I have been thinking about, you have a small-time hydroponic farmer protecting his "farm" in the night. So every night he can expect to see some monsters, but being a farmer he can't really afford automated turrets and laser tech and the like, since this tech is way beyond his pay grade and general technology level. If he had a submachine gun or pistol, would it make sense for him to also have a blessed blade, being a simple farmer?
>>46443661
>Because nobody else seems to do this.
What are you talking about? There are plenty of settings with guns and melee weapons coexisting.
>>46443728
I mean where it is justified in the sense I am going for.
>>46443221
there are arguments for melee weapons. but nothing that make them *equally* useful to guns, without invoking some kind of magic or implausible technology. the ammunition approach might work, but only in very specific circumstances, like if you stranded your players on an antarctic research base or something with only very limited supply of bullets.
>>46443446
i can see two solutions. one approach is not bothering to justify it - just make guns and swords mechanically equal and chalk it up to style. it's the same rule that justifies mecha most of the time.
the other approach, if you don't want the swords themselves being at all magical or special, is to move the onus to the monsters. in other words, give monsters a weakness to melee weapons, for whatever reason. they resist gunshot wounds but swords cut right through them.
>>46443743
Why do you want it to be "justified"?
>>46442947
The best way to do it would be to make a post apocalypse setting that takes place far after the actual apocalyptic event in which most of humanity has lost the art of making firearms and so an intact firearm and the ammunition for it is not only incredibly rare, but the training needed to use one effectively is almost impossible to acquire. In this sort of situation you would be able to find a good balance between melee and ranged without needing any magic, just ensure that guns are both very rare and very hard to use, thus limiting the majority of ranged combat to slings, bows, crossbows, and the like.
Sort of like Fallout, but with less focus on guns.
Alternatively you could set the game in a time period such as the 1400s where firearms are primitive and very expensive to produce, which limits their role in combat and everyday life.
Lastly, the cramped quarters,low gravity, and oxygen rich environment of a spacecraft make guns a tricky proposition, so maybe make a sort of "Wild West in Space" setting where it's just more practical to use melee in a boarding action.
>>46442947
>How do you reconcile having both swords and modern guns in a sci-fi/fantasy setting being equally useful without relying too much on magic?
Make your guns really shitty. If you can run over to someone and hit them with a sword before they fire, reload, and repeat as needed enough times to hit you, at least with decent odds, then it starts to make sense.
>>46443661
>would it make sense for him to also have a blessed blade, being a simple farmer?
Depends on how rare we're talking about. If monsters are such a part of everyday life you could have wandering clerics going around to give blessings to the people to help them, or fight in their place entirely, like some eastern monks did. Otherwise you could pass it off as a family herloom, maybe from a time where they were much more common. They're not impossible to find even among the poor, but less and less of them remain as the families can't afford to repair or replace them once they get damaged.
>>46443800
>and the ammunition for it
How the shit do you make ammunition rare? You can just cast it from lead, with relative ease.
>>46443757
Yes, I think I will have to move it towards the monsters.
>>46443784
Because if I cannot justify it, other than thinking it looks cool, I feel like a silly bitch, and I do not want to be a silly bitch.
>>46443800
Yes, I definitely want a post-apocalyptic setting too, in the sense that ancient tech is better, and good guns could be very rare, and shit guns common, but especially the vampires' tech is good, since they have been around for far longer than humans I'm thinking (like in vampire d). I'm interested in your wild west in space stuff though, could you elaborate?
>>46443834
I want common guns to be pretty shitty, but still very effective on other humans, but maybe not monsters.
>>46442947
Swords don't run out of ammo. If enemies in the setting regularly attack in sufficient numbers that running out of ammo happens frequently in most battles, equipping your soldiers with effective melee weaponry becomes necessary.
Swords do more damage. If enemies in the setting are tough enough (armor, force fields, regeneration, general badassery) to resist the puncture and impact damage caused by projectiles, then having slashing weapons which can cause gaping wounds or heavy blades which can pierce heavy armor, becomes necessary.
Basically, the whole reason swords are a thing in 40K is because of the Orks.
>>46443887
>I want common guns to be pretty shitty, but still very effective on other humans, but maybe not monsters.
Napoleon-era gunpowder tech, very useful against humans but reliable only at short ranges or with massed fire, monsters are covered in not-kevlar so you need to stab them.
>>46443882
Oh, I like this. Wandering clerics helping people out, and blessed weapons deteriorating. Maybe I could have some human religions representing light and goodness, but they are obscure and most people have lost faith because the night is too dark and terrible. One problem I'm seeing though is why the clerics wouldn't just bless guns and ammunition?
>>46443910
Well they ought to be tough as shit, but then you really don't want to get up close either. I dont know
>>46443941
How does kevlar behave against a dagger or mace?
>>46443999
>One problem I'm seeing though is why the clerics wouldn't just bless guns and ammunition?
Could be for a number of reasons, if blessings are from the past maybe guns weren't a thing yet, and a has been said, guns are harder to maintain and run out of ammo sooner or later. You get osme bullets blessed, once they're over you're fucked, in the long run a sword could be better if you risk meeting monsters every night.
>How does kevlar behave against a dagger or mace? Not sure against a mace, probably not bad, but it does behave quite poorly against knives.
>>46443883
Powder and casings are both hard to produce, and there are many different types of lead each with their own properties which react in different ways when they strike a target. Also your brass can only last so long and be reloaded so many times before it completely wares out, every time you fire and reload a cartridge you malform the brass, after awhile the case wall becomes too thin and blows out. This happens with ALL ammo. And that's just the stuff that gets fired, ammo will also degrade over time if not stored properly, and can always be just plain lost the same as anything else. Lastly, there are many different ammo types, some very common and others less so, it could be that you have lots of cartridges, but if you don't have a firearm chambered for those cartridges you're just plain SOL.
>>46443887
What I mean by wild west in space is basically that. Humanity expands into the stars they become spread out, long distance communication exists but is too expensive for the fringe worlds of human space and travel between worlds takes awhile. As a result of this fringe space becomes a largely lawless territory of multiple independent settlements which largely play by their own rules. The players could be honest folk just trying to make a living in one of these fringe communities, couriers who travel to send messages between planets while dodging outlaws and rival companies, independent Sheriffs roaming from place to place dispensing justice Clint Eastwood style, or they could even be outlaws themselves raiding and plundering to their little heart's content.
>>46444157
That's pretty cool. I don't know if I can keep that in the scope of the campaign though. I think space travel would most be limited to stations orbiting the planet. Maybe some sort of decadent vampire count orbiting the planet in his space castle, throwing massive feasts of human blood for nobility and such.
>>46444337
Oh, no. I'm just saying that it's a good way to justify swords without using magic.
>>46442947
Some kind of character mechanic that lets PCs survive bullets the same way they survive swords: super dodges or ablative HP or both, depending on the setting style. Personal forcefields, genetic regeneration, ki/chi/life-force toughness, precognition, something.
Once guns are no longer grim-n-gritty, "skill" becomes justifiable, tank roles become possible, and players can suspend disbelief.
That enables drawn-out, personal scale duels that increase emotional investment and interaction.
Killing power isn't the crucial bit of fantasy here. It's the un-killability that's needed for a power fantasy.
>>46442947
NANOMACHINES
