My players like to bully weak NPCs.
Compared to battles against strong opponents, they prefer battles against significantly weaker foes, alongside terrorizing the town and village NPCs within the barest limits of the law, and often past it when they can get away with it. They spare no effort when it comes to humiliating anyone they can find a fault with, and can often be quite cruel as soon as they can fashion together a reason. Very briefly, a few of their activities have included:
-beating up a young farmer [to impress a tavern wench that he and a PC were both eyeing]
-dragging a stripped and beaten orc chieftain throughout a town before allowing him to be beaten to death by a mob [penalty for raiding]
-impersonating a city official with a magical disguise and performing heinous acts to defame him [reason uncertain]
-pummeling a small child unconscious [for following them and asking questions]
-torturing a hobgoblin [so that his screams would demoralize his brethren living in the hills]
-torturing an innocent city guard [they thought he was a really devoted spy]
-torturing a mermaid [a PC invented a rumor that mermaids cry diamonds]
-beating up a beggar [for touching a PC]
-magically making all the food in a tavern taste like horse shit [boredom]
-destroying a merchant's shop, having him thrown into prison on false insurance fraud charges, and convincing his wife to divorce him [he refused to lower his prices and was rude to them]
-sinking a ship [the crew would not mutiny and join them as pirates]
-magically shattering every wine bottle in a tavern [punctuating a sentence with emphasis]
-creating the illusion of a recently bereaved man's dead wife and then having her disappear as he rushed out to her, followed by the PC's beating the tar out of him [they needed an item he had]
-being really, really mean to an old man [and I don't even know why]
They clearly are enjoying themselves, but in many cases, I genuinely feel sorry for the NPCs, which isn't surprising considering that I'm the one taking on their roles. Part of me wants to enforce a "You guys have to play good guys" type of ruling, to point out that they are abusing their powers and ruining people's lives with often wanton cruelty , and to point out that it's hard to try to come up with sympathetic NPCs if all that does is provide them with some new target for bullying and cruelty.
The other part recognizes that the NPCs don't actually have any feelings, and that my players are just bullying imaginary characters. Trying to protect the NPCs against the bullying PCs isn't any sort of kindness or justice, because the only real people who would be even inconvenienced would be the PCs.
The only tangible argument I can make to protect these figments of imagination is that while the players love playing in this way, they end up disliking their own characters, and frequently ask to change them. Of course, they fall into the old pattern with their new character, but it does seem like they have some measure of regret.
>>45469567
Actions have consequences, there are plenty of spells and skills that can be used to identify them as the culprits, Paladins would have access to those spells and skills.
Sick the feds on them. A good ol' Paladin hit squad.
>>45469801
This. Sounds like their characters need a reality check.
>>45469567
Play an evil campaign, OP.
That way they can be mean and evil all they want. In fact, they probably won't be able to walk into a town without someone trying to kick them out, or them just starting a fire and murdering people.
>>45469801
This, plus have word of them spread to other places so when they show up people just act with disgust and do their best to kick them out.
>>45469567
>-impersonating a city official with a magical disguise and performing heinous acts to defame him [reason uncertain]
>-pummeling a small child unconscious [for following them and asking questions]
>-torturing an innocent city guard [they thought he was a really devoted spy]
>-torturing a mermaid [a PC invented a rumor that mermaids cry diamonds]
>-beating up a beggar [for touching a PC]
>-magically making all the food in a tavern taste like horse shit [boredom]
>-destroying a merchant's shop, having him thrown into prison on false insurance fraud charges, and convincing his wife to divorce him [he refused to lower his prices and was rude to them]
>-sinking a ship [the crew would not mutiny and join them as pirates]
>-magically shattering every wine bottle in a tavern [punctuating a sentence with emphasis]
>-creating the illusion of a recently bereaved man's dead wife and then having her disappear as he rushed out to her, followed by the PC's beating the tar out of him [they needed an item he had]
>-being really, really mean to an old man [and I don't even know why]
Have word of all the shit they do spread across the land, Who the fuck will want to help them if they know all this shit they have done andm ight do to them for no/petty reasons, Have inn keepers refuse to allow them to stay, Have stores not sel lthem their wares, Have cities and towns not allow them in have bandaits/pirate/outloaws etc target them especially and make sure to give them very sparse quest givers, They want to be gigant monsters have them be treated as such.
>>45469801
>>45469836
>>45469884
If OP is running Pathfinder, an Inquisitor would likely be the head of the investigation. When he's got them solidly identified as murderers and pirates he could round up some Clerics and Paladins to help him purge the world of such filth.
>>45469801
>>45469836
They do get punished when they mess up, which instead of teaching them to stop being bullies, it's taught them to be better at hiding themselves being bullies. Disguises, invisibility, proxies, alibis, convoluted plans, the works.
It's also not particularly fun to go through the penal process, which raises the question of whether it's really fair to make the game less fun for everyone just because they play their characters in a way differently than I would, all because I feel sorry for imaginary characters.
>>45469848
That's largely what we end up playing. I don't enforce any sort of ligament constraints, so they typically end up erring on the side of neutral and evil.
>>45469884
>>45469897
This is probably one of the secondary reasons they always want to change their characters. Though they still end up wanting to use new characters even if they haven't been caught or developed any notoriety, they tend to really want to switch out once if their characters develop a bad reputation.
The easy answer is to simply say "Tough luck, you're stuck with your character," but having done that in the past and ended up with games where people are playing characters they hate and are simply not having fun, it's not exactly a great solution to try and instill a sense of morality and kindness into players who might not even be able to play kind or moral characters.
>>45470162
Sounds like you just have shitty, unempathetic players that weasel out of a game whenever they're punished for being dickheads. If I were you I'd just refuse to DM for those pricks.
>>45470195
It's certainly one of their weak points, but they have a good number of strengths, which include being quite passionate about the game. Though, sadly, most of that passion is reserved for being outrageously vindictive.
>>45470280
This is interesting. I suppose you could guide the players that want to switch characters towards quests where they can change their appearance or make people forget about them. If they want to be the greatest trolls in the world I can't really see any way of changing that without making the game less enjoyable for everyone. The only guaranteed solution is:
TALK TO YOUR PLAYERS. See if they're willing to play characters not so predisposed to evil or running parallel games with one being full on vindiction game and another more along what you guys come up with.
Have their old characters show up after they get new ones and just be real assholes .
Probably won't solve anything but i like the idea of them constantly killing their old characters for being monsters only for them to be on the receiving end later.
>>45471429
That's actually really macabre.
>>45471984
I like the Twilight Zone
>>45469567
>impersonating a city official with a magical disguise and performing heinous acts to defame him
>destroying a merchant's shop, having him thrown into prison on false insurance fraud charges, and convincing his wife to divorce him
Some of these aren't quick thing you can just do, and make me wonder if you let them get away with too much. Like you go along with it too much.
Though props to you if you manage to keep whatever it is you have planned going on when things can get this sidetracked
>>45472206
I'd rather have players fuck with my campaign than railroad them along
>>45471429
I like this idea. Consider it, OP!
>>45469567
If this ruins the gaming for you, start a new campaign and tell them that the premise involves heroic upstanding characters of non-existent alignment, and make it clear that if they act like cunts as per last game, it's ending in rocks fall everyone dies.
You shouldn't have to deal with DMing something that's no fun for you like some kind of story slave, but you do need to start off with making it clear that you don't want to deal with a bunch of in or out of character sadists to begin with. Otherwise it's not really fair to punish the players for doing whatever fucked up shit they find fun.
If maybe that was already the case and they insist on being twats but you don't want to settle this out of game (you really should) sick some super powered vigilantes on their asses. No simple team Either, a smart adventuring party but 1-2 levels higher and with some extra Mook back up and resources.
If you're down to play along with their bs but have a hard time actually giving them a challenge because they like picking on the weak, take the vigilante example and just tone down the power to an appropriate challenge.
Maybe have powerful do-gooders pose as helpless waifs and then fuck with the players right back. Have gypsies curse them, have them thrown out of town for causing trouble, have them pass off crotchety arch mages when they fuck with his niece who was polymorphed into a mermaid, etc.
>>45473010
non-evil alignment.... Auto correct is a bitch.
>>45469567
Have them go to prison, where they are bullied, a lot.
Like, inmates not letting them sleep or heal.
>>45469801
>>45469848
>>45469897
>>45469884
>>45470044
>>45470162
>>45470195
>>45470280
>>45470280
>>45470938
Instead of all these "punish your players" options, OP, here's a suggestion; first, play an evil campaign, and second, stop putting innocent NPCs in your evil campaign. Make EVERYONE Evil.
Everyone is a conniving, sneaky bastard who will rent their disabled mother out for a copper behind the shack.
All the civilians are Evil, all the Shopkeepers are Evil, the children torture animals for fun, the priests are corrupt and hold grotesque bacchanial blood orgies secretly, the town guard can be bribed expensively but will kick the shit out of people if you don't pal it up with them.
Then give the players a mission to punish anyone they see fit.
Make the NPCs worthy of the bullying, and you won't feel bad, and they'll feel even better. You can put stronger enemies in too, who the players will have to avoid - or take down, if they can, through elaborate, evil schemes. But if you can stomach it and get into bastards being bastards to other bastards, it might just make a great campaign.
Then fucking bail out after that and get new players, since nothing will top that.
>>45470162
>ligament constraints
Whatchu say nigguh?
>>45473121
Oh wow, this is actually brilliant. I'm getting some Dishonored vibes from this. In that game, the more you kill to achieve your goal, the darker and more evil the setting becomes. And I seriously liked that kind of influence.
Do this instead, OP. Start darkening the palette with which you paint your setting until they start questioning how it has come to this.
>>45473170
MANDATORY PLOT TWIST: THE BENEFACTOR IS ACTUALLY GOING TO SCREW THE PARTY OVER SO VERY HARD AND FORCE THEM TO WALK THROUGH SHIT AND BE CAST DOWN AND CRIPPLED
BUT THEY HAVE A CHANCE TO EXPLOIT HIS ONE MISTAKE: HE LEFT THEM ALIVE
The fact that they did one of those things to impress a tavern wench might be useful, I think. Have you tried giving them a sympathetic NPC who likes the party but would disapprove of these actions? If they're willing to do stuff to impress an NPC maybe they'll be willing to cut back to keep from freaking them out.
>>45473121
Having the world respond appropriately to player-agency is not "punishing", you dense, cucko turd :)
>>45473805
"Appropriately" does not neccesarily mean Karmic justice.
>>45469567
Have a village/town they terrorized hire another adventuring party to go after them.
>>45473121
>>45469567
I had a similar idea. Rather make everyone evil, have a master vampire convert some of the townsfolk. That way the next time the decide to beat up a beggar, or little kid they lose an arm.
Or you know, instead of all this IC style problem solving try manning it up and just confront them OOCly. Really, if you dislike something happening just mention it OOCly, don't do it like a whiney little girl.
Just tell them that it's no fun for you this way, and that y'all need to compromise together.
Also, it kinda sounds like you're a bit of a pushover OP, might just be that you need to stand on your stripes more i.g.
Just my 2 cents tho.
>>45474536
>>45469567
Or if you want to go for something else, how about a village that is a cover for the Goode Folke, or the Lords and Ladies? The first peasant they abuse turns out to be a murderous redcap.
>>45469567
>-sinking a ship [the crew would not mutiny and join them as pirates]
hillarious
i once had a murderhobo group like that
loved every second of that campaign
>>45474739
>murderous redcap
Does the village have a strange human cleric, a necromancer who's really into entrails, and a serious pest problem, too?
>>45475648
Magic didn't invent Redcaps, Tolkien didn't invent elves, and your world is a lie
>-impersonating a city official with a magical disguise and performing heinous acts to defame him [reason uncertain]
That made me let out an involuntary Dr. Hibbert laugh.
>>45476339
But really though, clearly your buddies like black justice. You should provide more asshat characters for them to bully. If they still choose to pick on the weak, maybe it's time a couple paladins come to visit. Don't kill them for being dicks though, that's not very fun. Give them some warning jailtime or something first, maybe?
>>45473805
>>45474536
>>45474476
>>45474536
>>45474739
Players like this don't learn very well from punishment; therefore it's on the GM to either stop running the game, or making the game something that the GM will find fun.
The GM giving constant karmic retribution has already been demonstrated not to work; the players just shrug and reroll while using more convoluted tactics. Constantly dropping consequential rocks is only going to make the game unfun for EVERYONE, not just the GM.
What is the point of that?
>>45475784
Tolkien invented Elves, but didn't invent Elfs. Elves are tall, humanoid; Elfs are smaller and more Fae-like.
>>45469567
I know making this analogy is going to get a few "REEEEE"s, but I recommend going Undertale on them. They feel like bullying and even killing people for little to no reason? So be it. Eventually, they'll attract the attention of someone way out of their league, and isn't down to clown with their shit. A Sans-like character is often a really engaging and effective way to get that sort of behavior to stop.
>>45477106
First off, lots of people have already suggested punishing the players with karmic retribution via other NPCs. Second off, the Sans fight isn't even the morally compelling part of Undertale's social retribution during the Genocide route -- the fact that the game constantly throws the fact that you're being a fucking monster in your face is. Lastly, as has also already been stated in the thread a few times, the PCs in question ask the GM if they can switch characters any time their existing characters gain that kind of notoriety -- and in case you're thinking of suggesting this next, Undertale-type meta commentary is not going to translate well to TRPGs.
>>45477166
I suppose that's a good point, I failed to consider the "Well, I just make a new character who is just as much of a dickbag, but they didn't do anything yet." option. If they're really being that awful, I recommend talking to the players about it. Or, if you're willing to deal with it (Or enjoy it), as previously stated in the thread, just host an evil campaign. It won't be disruptive to the story, and the players can be as murderhobo as they want.
>>45469567
>dragging a stripped and beaten orc chieftain throughout a town before allowing him to be beaten to death by a mob [penalty for raiding]
>torturing a hobgoblin [so that his screams would demoralize his brethren living in the hills]
>beating up a beggar [for touching a PC]
>destroying a merchant's shop, having him thrown into prison on false insurance fraud charges, and convincing his wife to divorce him [he refused to lower his prices and was rude to them]
That's not bullying. That's justice.
>everything else
11/10 Party would burn down slave orphanages with.
Have you tried bullying your players?
All players are secretly submissives needing a firm hand to teach them their place.
>>45477282
While I disagree with your logic, I do think the party needs to be bullied for their antics
>>45469567
>-pummeling a small child unconscious [for following them and asking questions]
Rocks fall everyone dies, game is over nobody come back next week.
This would be my response if I was GM.
I'm really curious, not about OP, but about all these people that insist in heavily punish the players.
Why do you want this kind of thing so much? Is it because you feel such strong connection to the imaginary NPCs? Is it because you have a very strong sense of "good always prevail"? Is it because this behavior remind you of someone you are not fond of?
This doesn't seem to be justified as just being a rational response from the people in the setting.
It COULD be, but not necessarily is.
Maybe the setting in over all is just too low fantasy (except for the PCs) to justify using divination methods on them. Maybe there isn't divination methods. Maybe there is, but there are so much crime all over the places that doesn't make the attitudes of the PCs about this ALL that special. Maybe they even are very infamous, but powerful enough that the governments don't consider sending enought resources to hunt them. Maybe they even don't have. Maybe the governments are corrupt. Etc.
So why insist so much in this idea of characters that much stronger than the PCs identifying them and hunting them in a way so sure and devastating that the players would change their ways forever?
Or even worst, simply punish them arbitratly with "rock falls" and stuff?
I really don't understand how these kind of topics seems to always get so extreme suggestions.
If it was "one guy that didn't understood the mood of the campaing", I would understand. But it seems all the players are having much fun this way. Only OP, the GM, is having a bit of trouble, and asking for suggestions to correct that. So why so much suggestions to destroy the fun of everybody?
I REALLY wand an answer, because I see this thing very frequently on tg, and I don't understand.
>>45480221
>Why do you want this kind of thing so much?
The unyielding cry of "JUSTICE!" aside, it's actually pretty simple. Good characters who are good people are more likable, and lead to better stories. A bunch of assholes may work for a short comedy, but even then there's a certain limit where the protagonists either need to grow up a little, or the humor starts to fall flat and the sequels end up unwatchable.
It's less punishing the characters for being evil, and more punishing the players for making characters that turn the campaign into a one note joke.
>>45480221
It's because one should not be encouraging such behaviour, whether against imaginary characters or not. People who get off on being complete dicks and fucking over people for no good reason are most likely not going to be significantly better in their real lives.
And that's bad. There are not enough good people in the world, anon.
Now, I'm not arguing that violence in games is bad. Violent games are actually a good way to let off steam - hell, even the Tibetan Lama who is considered to be one of the world's greatest spiritual authorities, has once stated that violent video games are a good way of relieving one's stress and negative energy without directing it at the people around you.
But these people are not playing a video game. They are playing a serious role-playing game, in which you could be literally anything, and yet they choose to be the worst kind of bad. This says something about their minds. Even if they do not normally show it, they are troubled people, and there is a reason for their actions other than teenage edgemastery or randumb 'lol lets fuck shit up' like >>45477253
feels.
Giving such behaviours positive reinforcement is not something you want to do. You don't pet your dog when it kills the neighbour's cat for sport, here is the same thing.
Now, having their negative actions discouraged in the game may not change their lives - oh, it definitely won't, unless the GM is some sort of diplomancer IRL - but at least it would be a start, to show them that they are walking a twisted path.
The world needs more love in it, anon.
>>45480640
I can sympathyze with this reason, but I don't think this is the most proeminent reason for people to say these things.
First, well, most of the things OP described looked silly and stuff, but not all of them. You CAN be very selfish and extremelly cruel with NPCs in a very serious campaing.
I really don't think that evil characters lead to worst stories.
And even if ir did become more silly and perhaps a worst story (it seems to be the case of OP), I'm unsure if forcing the players to be "good" would make them less silly. They could just do silly things in a different way. But in this case, they seems to be enjoying.
However, the main reason that I'm skeptical about this, is that, in many other threads where the PCs did some evil things to NPCs, even when completely reasonable and realistic and in a serious tone, the same extemist suggestions of punishing the players have risen.
And I don't see so much critics about over all silly light-hearted campaings. Only when this is related to "bully" NPCs or something alike, that I see these many agressive suggestions.
>>45480797
There is problaly a reason for them to play such characters, I agree. And I agree that this isn't just a video game, they choose to role play this. But aren't you going too far to assume that the reason is that they are bad people?
Couldn't, for instance, they play this because they want to role play something very different that they are in real life? Maybe they would never bully someone in real life, and because of this the think that it could be fun to role play someone who would, someone who would break the rules.
Maybe they are really bad people, but I don't think that playing this kind of character proves it.
Even IF they have some sort of connection with these characters wishes, morals, attitudes.... it could be something that they would only express in fantasy.
Similar to a woman that maybe have a rape fetish, but would commit suicide if it was to happen to her in real life.
>>45480797
You can't force lasting moral changes through negative reinforcement, especially when you are limited in the punishment that you can carry out. That just makes them better at dodging punishment or not caring.
You need a positive reinforcement technique.
If you don't do the assholes thing, you make most people innocent, give them some power.
Then you make a BBEG so much MORE terrible that the people come crawling to the PCs as the only people able to resist.
The BBEG hunts them mercilessly, and fucks with them.
The civilians all practically worship the PCs even while being beaten and tormented because the BBEG is so much worse.
Even the players are going to be willing to be heroes if everyone is cheering them on and the bad guy is even worse.
>>45473121
>it turns out the orphanage you burnt down are all skrulls and you get a medal for your efforts
Reminds me of a couple both in game and out in the group, who would tag team NTR NPCs.
>>45477078
Romanticism had human-sized elves before tolkien did them.
>>45480869
This is a girl.
Or, more literally, it is a picture of a girl. Not a terribly great picture of a girl either. She only has three fingers on each hand, some sort tumorous growth on the end of each leg, no nose, and she is 30% head. She is not real, has never had a thought or concern, and will never get upset, no matter what cruel and terrible things you might imagine will be done to her. She is nothing more than a few graphite scratches that were scanned so that the variations in pigment reflected a portion of light which would then be converted into data and then once again into light for you to see upon your screen. She has no emotions, no goals, no desires, nothing except an unfinished smile that reaches up to the level of one of her eyes, but not the other.
Even so, don't you still want to protect that smile?
It's just human nature.
>>45481257
Maybe, depending on the story, as a player I would have the impulse to protect this imaginary girl.
But as DM, my impulse wouldn't be nearly enough for me to wish to destroy the fun of all my players just because their PCs decided to kill this imaginary girl.
Does the ideia that someone in some place played a game that their characters had fum torturing, raping and killing such imaginary girl, and that the players had fun role playing it, makes you really so much angry?
>>45481464
>Does the ideia that someone in some place played a game that their characters had fum torturing, raping and killing such imaginary girl, and that the players had fun role playing it, makes you really so much angry?
Yes.
Look at that goofy smile, and tell me what kind of heartless person would think "Yeah, I want that gone."
Even if she's imaginary, her smile is still real.
>>45481543
May I ask you how you react when is the DM that kills in horrible ways girls like this?
I also would like to know if you like playing paladins. Because I see a lot of paladin players on tg and I always wondered if were the same people that get this extremist reactions to NPC suffering.
>>45469567
That's your fault for playing with a non-Good party.
>>45481648
Not him but I play paladins and I can still tell the difference between fiction and reality. In real life I'm pretty much as far from a paladin you can get without actually being a criminal. That's part of what makes being a paladin fun. It's no skin off my back if some other player wants to murder a little girl in a game.
>>45469567
>[punctuating a sentence with emphasis]
sides.meme
Bully them back.
Literally have some trickster come along and offer them a moral choice, when they inevitably take the low road have them pay for it.
I mean it, steal their shit, steal -all- of their shit, have them dragged through town in chains and put in stocks over night, let every person they fucked with come by, have a good laugh and toss horse shit at them.
>>45481648
Also not him but my brother plays a noblebright, white knight paladin all the time and in real life he's pretty much entirely driven by what is best for him. I, on the other hand, throw a fit about people hurting fake people all the time and I usually play TN wizards with no sense of justice.
I think most people where I'm from play the opposite of how they see themselves. It's a breath of fresh air, y'know?
>>45480797
>People who get off on being complete dicks and fucking over people for no good reason are most likely not going to be significantly better in their real lives.
Whoa there anon, so you're saying that someone that has been used as a doormat IRL can let off steam in an imaginary world?
>>45481648
I find killing children to be a cheap move on the DM's part to try and force a reaction, and I usually end up just feeling disappointed in the DM, rather than concerned about the character he scripted to die.
And I have played paladins, and typically play Neutral Good characters that err towards Lawful Good, regardless of class. But, I've also played neutral and evil characters, though I'll admit I didn't have a lot of fun playing the evil characters. It may in part be because I feel sorry for any imaginary victims, but I think it's largely because evil campaigns just have a tendency to be awful.
>>45469567
>creating the illusion of a recently bereaved man's dead wife and then having her disappear as he rushed out to her, followed by the PC's beating the tar out of him [they needed an item he had]
I lost it, fuck. Top shelf party, OP
>>45481073
I like this idea.
>>45481121
The Norse were doing the elf thing way before the Romantic period.
>>45482006
Not the same guy here, but I always seem to end up veering into the morally grey area, no matter how I start out. The Paladin ends up becoming a little cynical and ruthless, the Dick Ass Thief ends up having a soft spot for the underdog when he should cut and run.
I'm not a bad person, but I do do bad things.
>>45480797
Whilst I would agree, to a limited degree, that behaviour in role-playing can sometimes be an indication of personality of the player, I would never say its a damning indictment, or that any DM or player has some ethical responsibility to 'rehabilitate' players who make fictional characters do bad fictional things in a fictional context.
It's like the idea that anyone who enjoys a violent video game is a danger to society. A very few people who play tabletop games are probably sociopaths, but most of the time roleplaying is just roleplaying.
If you don't like the way a player plays to the point where it makes you concerned about the mental state or character of the actual player, don't play with them.
>>45482236
I'm not certain that those were actually human-sized though.
>beating up a young farmer [to impress a tavern wench that he and a PC were both eyeing]
That's when you have the tavern wench smack him. You think a fucking farm town takes kindly to outsiders picking on their own?
>dragging a stripped and beaten orc chieftain throughout a town before allowing him to be beaten to death by a mob [penalty for raiding]
Eh, death to green skins.
>impersonating a city official with a magical disguise and performing heinous acts to defame him [reason uncertain]
Turn him into a super villain.
>pummeling a small child unconscious [for following them and asking questions]
That one is easy. The kid's dad is some big dick and gets his men together to throw the fuck down. Make sure at least one of the players gets killed or comes close to being killed.
Better yet, the kid was a noble's brat and had crept out of the house disguised as a peasant. Their ability to do anything in the city is suddenly severely limited, and they have to stay underground.
>torturing a hobgoblin [so that his screams would demoralize his brethren living in the hills]
Make it enrage them instead.
CE is the flailing retard alignment. Punish it accordingly. There's no point in having options if something doesn't happen when you take those options. An "evil act" can be profitable, but there's absolutely no reason to make it easy for them. The reason those towns and kingdoms were formed in the first place was to present a united front against murder hobos.
>>45483992
Norse elves were supposed to be very much like the Vanir Gods to the point where some writers referred to the latter as elves, and Norse Gods in general were of human height.
>>45485648
Is there an actual intelligent way to play CE?
>>45488633
Any self-centered anarchist can fit that bill, and you can find a hundred examples of the intelligent kind in spy fiction like the Bond novels. People often make the mistake of simply classifying intelligent people as lawful and stupid people as chaotic, but you can be pretty smart and still want to overturn authority because you consider it to be too stifling.
>>45480797
Unrelated to your post, but is Spice and Wolf worth watching? I heard it was pretty good.
>>45489983
What you heard is, for once, correct. Do watch it.
>>45476580
Revenge. Players ruin game for GM; GM ruins game for players.
>>45469567
Does anyone else think his players are fantastic?
>>45490475
If you seek revenge, dig two graves.
You can bury your campaign in one, and your friendship with your players in the other.
This isn't a game one can win by hurting the other person more when the other person is enjoying the hurt and you aren't.
>>45469567
Damn, that's harsh, the worst thing I had ever done in a game was pushing a jewelry merchant to kill himself and that wasn't even intentional
>>45469567
Jesus fucking christ, I feel sad for having read this. Are your players the antagonist jocks from a shitty 80's high school romance?
>>45477166
>the PCs in question ask the GM if they can switch characters any time their existing characters gain that kind of notoriety -- and in case you're thinking of suggesting this next, Undertale-type meta commentary is not going to translate well to TRPGs.
The answer is simple, then: the players' reputation sticks with every character they make. Even 'fresh' PCs will be hunted down, because they are possessed by the evil spirits of the Players.
>>45489569
This. You don't have to be stupid to be Chaotic. You just need to have stupid goals and/or stupid beliefs.
>>45481862
Don't forget to have a nun follow them around ringing a bell and chanting 'shame'.
>>45480797
Hooey. I quite enjoy an evil campaign on occasion precisely because I'm so constrained in my behavior in real life and worried about always doing the moral thing in real life. I'm not randumb like OP's players seem to be a lot of the time, and I don't fuck up standard campaigns by injecting an evil character where they're not welcome. But in the proper setting, I find cutting loose and going in defiance of societal norms and moral behavior to be quite cathartic. Just because you like slasher flicks (which I don't, by the way) or bloody vigilante movies doesn't mean you're a violent person who is in danger of going down a "twisted path".
>>45481257
As a QM, I honestly think women look more attractive when they're vulnerable or crying or upset. It just strips away all their defenses, and brings out the frightened innocent within.
>>45469567
>torturing a mermaid [a PC invented a rumor that mermaids cry diamonds]
I feel I need this one explained to me
>messed with everyone in a tavern twice
I hope they ended up pissing some notable NPC off. Come on
>>45493898
Not that guy, but it sounds like their players made a rumour that mermaids, if they cry, will cry diamonds.
This lead to mermaids being tortured so they would cry.
>>45493933
I was wondering if the PCs then tortured the mermaids themselves
>>45493898
>>45493933
There's a Chinese legend about a mermaid that cries pearls, and there's also a lot of other folk lore about mermaid tears having healing properties or some other value. The player probably misremembered something he had read and where he had read it, and guiltlessly decided that it might as well be true in that campaign setting.
>>45494043
That's genuinely fucked up.
