Are there any games that do D&D but better than D&D?
>>48234476
Dungeon World is a more rules light version that works reasonably well. Its an inept port of a much better game into the D&D millieu, but it still turned out alright because Apocalypse World was solid enough that a hack by hacks still turn out a B- effort.
D&D?
Don't you just spice up/reskin the game?
>>48234529
>DW
>better than D&D
OP didn't specify edition, and DW is only better than pic related.
In fact this entire thread can be summed up with pic related, since it's what people actually mean.
>>48234476
Pathfinder.
Any shitposting that will result aside, there are a few ways to take this:
A few retroclones try and improve on the fundamentals, or "clean up" D&D, Labyrinth Lord gets a fair amount of praise but I don't personally prefer the minor streamlining to just old school. ACKS isn't exactly a "retroclone" per se but it it's reasonably complex rehash of both old and new ideas (takes influence from AD&D and 3e).
The logical extension if you like the TABLES IN TABLES and esoteric ridiculousness of some of (especially 2e) D&D is Hackmaster, which is enjoyable on its own despite its dense crunch and a lot of tongue-in-cheek mechanics.
FantasyCraft tries to "fix" 3.5e and succeeds in some respects...but you should still expect a rules mess.
13th Age attempted to crib some of the 4e elements and mash them onto a 3e base and it works pretty well for theatre-of-the-mind, less number-crunching gameplay (despite some class balance issues). It's most unique features (icons and their use) can be pretty easily exported to any game though.
Shadow of the Demon Lord was a 5e dev who had a hard on for WHFRP and shoehorned some grimderp into it. Mechanically it's reasonably light and I do like the way class levels "build" as opposed to being a linear path.
People (>>48234529) will of course mention DW as a "cinematic" alternative, and while I don't like it or even think it feels like playing D&D, you may want to see for yourself anyway as the mechanics can be gleaned in a few minutes.
>>48234614 is trolling, retarded, or both
GURPS
U
R
P
S
>>48234476
There's only so much you can do with the abortion that is the d20 system. The best I've seen it done is in Fantasy Craft and even that is a trainwreck. If you branch out beyond d20 you can find plenty of serviceable fantasy TTGs.
I was playing D&D with my friends and their dad told us to go outside and pretend instead. We did.
>>48234789
truth be told, I want a version of WFRP that doesn't suck nuts, but WFRP 3e is garbage, and 2e needs a massive overhaul
5e almost did it right, but then they still did derpy COMBAT RULES FOR DAYS shit.
>>48234789
You do realize D&D existed for a quarter century prior to the OGL and the d20 system, right? And that there have been two editions since?
>>48234664
Good post, anon.
>>48234825
>D&D existed for a quarter century prior to the OGL and the d20 system
Only played by hipsters
>And that there have been two editions since
One was abandoned by the company that made it, and the other is brand new and they're both d20 games.
You can pretend that 3.5/PF isn't "D&D" to 99% of D&D players if you want but that doesn't make it not true.
Please die.
Be sure to take this colossal faggot with you.
>>48234664
>>48234690
Seconding GURPS, dungeon fantasy.
>>48234940
What language do you speak?
I'm curious what language "better" translates to "a hundred times worse."
It sounds like you speak a fag language.
>>48234476
If you aren't having fun with D&D, don't play D&D.
If you are having fun with D&D, play D&D.
Every single argument - without fail - for one way or the other only really amounts to "I like X better because I am allowed to have opinions." Which is nothing that's inherently wrong, but I know that /tg/ has a nasty habit of treating it's subjective opinions as objective facts. In other words, I hope you play whatever you have fun with, and enjoy the dick-waving and shit-flinging that is this thread.
>>48234917
After you, I insist.
>>48234982
If you're the OP, go choke on a dick, you troll. A fitting end for you.
If you're the faggot who decided to shit out his faggot opinion like this wasn't a troll thraad, shit nigger, you are already dead inside and I hope OP comes for you to drag you to Hell already, you gay walking corpse.
>>48235024
I think you missed the third option, someone who successfully got you buttmad
>>48235035
No, he covered Troll right off.
>>48235058
Except OP asked a perfectly legitimate question, even if it's naïve. You can discuss similar systems and keep the pissing contest secondary.
>>48235035
Man, whoever you need to be to go off yourself, be that person.
>>48235096
Man, fuck off with your "legitimate question" you shiteating troll.
If he cared about a good answer, he wouldn't have used the same image someone's used to troll the last few weeks. He's just here to start up the same old bullshit, and you're a faggot to try and pretend otherwise.
Choke on a dick.
Harn. It's a dead system (devs went bankrupt) but I like the mechanics and character gen. It's d100 based, but crit fails/succeeds are on 5's and 0's.
You know why they scrapped the name DnD Next?
Because after playing it, some alpha testers took to shouting "next" to the supervisors, as if expecting a better game to be produced.
Actually, 5e is okay, but it doesn't really fix the problems that are typical for DnD: combat that is difficult to make interesting, yet also slow with phonebooks of rules, and casters being inherently superior to martials.
So I'd say any of the *world type games does it better. They feature innovative dice systems that help make everything interesting.
>>48234606
Don't try to speak for anyone except yourself.
That's your major malfunction.
>>48235206
>casters being inherently superior to martials.
Casters are only better at solving various circumstances in 5E. They're versatile, but they can't exceed past a martial in terms of combat ability.
Barbarians, paladins, monks, and especially fighters rule the battlefield in terms of "dealing damage", since 5E hamstringed the ability of magic spells to end an encounter.
5E casters are toolboxes, 5E martials are sledgehammers. They can't really do each others jobs.
Sorclock notwithstanding but that obviously is not even close to intended design.
>>48234476
>Are there any games that do D&D but better than D&D?
Short answer: No
Long answer: No, which is why you haven't seen any significant challenge to it that isn't some near-clone/retweaking of it's core rules.
>>48235266
I ran the math before, but a martial fully loaded for damage barely outdamages a fully loaded damage caster.
Damage wise, they're basically equal, with a slight edge to martials.
But damage isn't the problem. Casters completely dominate out of combat encounters with spell utility in a way that martials can't really keep up.
Whenever someone brings up damage to the 5e caster v. martial argument, they're completely missing the point.
So good job, missing the point.
>>48235340
>I am bad at math and my mother doesn't love me
Maybe she'd love you if you weren't so bad at math.
I don't find it to be garbage just that obviously it's caster supremacy the game. I prefer savage worlds honestly as a system, and hoping to get my players off the wizard cock long enough to give it a go.
>>48234476
Lot of good stuff in the OSR community. Lamentations of The Flame Princess for weird horror in 1600s europe, DCC for gonzo fantasy meat grinders and tables (proprietary dice though), The Black Hack for the newhotness that's actually pretty good, Beyond The Wall+ Further Afield for a very thoughtful meshing of character and world building as a collaborative effort from more narrative/story games with classic D&D. DW and World Of Dungeons if that's your thing.
Lots of options.
>>48234823
this might be what you're looking for
>>48234476
The first time i played. Didn't like the fact that AC was never specified to what it is. Is it armor? then why DEX increase it? are you avoiding the attack or taking the hit and it is doing 0 damage?
>>48235216
>that shadowrun
No wonder I can never find a fucking group
>>48235519
Wow, you're really going for that "Most Retarded Post of All Time" award. That's a strong competitor right there.
>>48235519
>are you avoiding the attack or taking the hit and it is doing 0 damage?
Yes.
>>48235584
I like to know what exactly happened to my character. I believe most systems will just separate both things and armor will actually works as armor (decrease damage). It's weird to put them together in a pool, it's lazy.
>>48235655
You've outdone yourself.
Please, do use a tripcode, so that we know who's name to put on the award.
>>48235692
so basically, you don't have an argument.
Dungeon Crawl Classics!
>>48235725
>better
>>48235724
No, basically, you're just trying to bump a troll thread with some of the stupidest posts ever uttered.
Like, fuck, do you not understand what abstraction is? Shit, you are dumb enough to think you deserve an argument instead of insults, when it's clear you're not even smart enough to understand the basics of game design.
Educate yourself so I don't have to do it for you, and then come back when you can understand why a game might choose to simplify a complex question into a simpler one.
You utter moron.
>>48235024
>>48235141
>>48235797
damn girl, u thirsty
>>48235655
you're just an idiot
>>48234476
>D&D But Better
Depends what you mean by Better
>Best variety of options & support, but having to sort through a ton of trap character options when building PCs
Pathfinder, GURPS
>Best Balanced fantasy dungeoncrawler game
FantasyCraft, or True20.
>>48234823
>Like WHFRP but better
GURPS Fantasy/ GURPS Dungeon Fantasy, or RuneQuest 6.
>>48234913
4e is not a d20 game. The d20 engine has been stripped out in almost all places and replaced by... something else.
5e is no longer new. It's been coming up on 3 years, and it has next to no product, and they've made it clear they intend to keep it that way, outside of adventures. It's an inflexible game engine with an insufficient number of character options, that is *Only* really getting support in the form of adventures.
>>48235797
The game is not based on abstraction. If it was, you would defeat enemies based on how your character is feeling.
It's all precise, so it definitely makes sense to ask why dex and armor are treated as the same thing.
>>48235655
In real life, if you wear an armor, like for example a leather vest to tank a punch. You don't "decrease" the damage, you completely tank it, or you don't. Dex increases it because whether you dodge it or tank it is irrelevant, in both cases the damage is nullified.
>>48234964
odd that you say "a hundred times worse" when you mean "I haven't played it and can't believe the justified claim that it's better despite being unwilling to try it and see."
>>48235266
There are lots of ways to break the game as a caster in 5e. Comparatively fewer than in 3e and you will break the game less, but it's still trivially possible for a couple of the caster classes to make martials cry. Plus, most of the game-breaking caster stuff requires you to be somewhere in the neighborhood of 10th level to get started and doesn't get /really/ crazy until close to the level cap, plus, with the exception of necromancers, the builds that dominate the game tend to be obscure, niche things that people probably won't stumble into unless they're actually /trying/ to be minmaxing assholes. So, 5e's class balance should work fine for an average group, but that's not the same as being genuinely balanced. Casters still stomp all over martials if both classes are playing hardball.
>>48235519
The original idea was that the more armor you have, the fewer parts of your body present valid targets for an enemy attack. By the time we got to AD&D, it was already a clunky legacy system from a time when most characters only had one hit point.
>>48235846
Holy shit.
You are legitimately an idiot.
Thanks, I was worried it would take longer to reveal that you trolls are fucking morons, but we've settled this whole business early.
Good night, you fucking idiot.
>>48235216
It's a very useful chart.
It lets you know that 35.53% of players are to be avoided at all fucking costs.
>>48235846
It's based on abstraction done by people who aren't complete retards.
>>48235845
Oh. And other D&D alternatives, which I had forgotten while making that post, are Unisystem and Savage Worlds.
>>48235655
>I like to know what exactly happened to my character.
Ask the DM then.
>>48235852
>you completely tank it
depends of the amount of damage. If you fall from your bike, a helmet surely won't absorb 100% of the impact. Hell, arrows were able to pass through armor. It's not irrelevant to know which one is happening and how much damage is being reduced. It is directly linked to the type of character you're making, or at least should be.
>>48235846
>The game is not based on abstraction. If it was, you would defeat enemies based on how your character is feeling.
You don't know what an abstraction is. I'm with the others here: you're just a retard.
>>48235376
Champion Fighter, 2 action surges per short rest for 8 attacks in a round, +5 attribute, +3 magic weapon, and GWM for +10 damage per hit.
Assuming all hit, that's 16d6+80+40+24, for on average 180 damage in a round, twice per short rest.
Now, Quickened Spell Sorclock with hex, eldritch blast, and the invocations, and +5 cha
2xEldritch blast for 4d10+40+8d6, or 90 damage on average.
So at first, it seems like the champion does twice as much damage as the sorclock, and this is as deep as the average martial player ever gets (if they even got this far, I have my doubts).
But then you have to consider how often the character is "online".
The champion fighter can deal 180 damage twice per short rest, so 6 times per day if you follow the DMG guidelines.
The sorcerer at level 18 sorc, 2 warlock, can do it 9 times. in a long rest.
But you have to factor in converting spell slots to points. the 2 levels of warlock let the sorcerer have 2 level one spell slots per short rest to be converted, which is an additional 2 points per short rest. So we're looking at three more 90 damage novas available to the sorc.
Then there are the other spell slots.
9
8
7
6
5 5 5
4 4 4
3 3 3
2 2 2
1 1 1 1
That's an additional 76 sorcery points if the sorc wants it, and with that, he has an additional 38 uses of the 90 damage nova per long rest.
So basically, the sorcerer is always online and doing 90 damage, and the champion fighter is always online and doing 90 damage, but with a few situations where the champion does an additional 90 damage in a turn, but at a lower accuracy.
The additional 90 damage novas aren't anything you couldn't get by just succeeding with a hold person or hold monster.
As a martial, you're basically giving up consistent, accurate damage and spells for the ability to usually twice a day (most groups don't do that many short rests in a day) kill a single target twice as hard as the caster was already killing it.
>>48235846
When you play monopoloy, you know you're not really a little top hat right?
>>48235954
But that is what I meant.
The armor protects you from the arrow, or it doesn't and you still die. The helmet protects you from opening your head wide open or it doesn't. Sure you get twisted after falling from a bike, and you can continue moving afterwards, just like you can continue fighting if your AC fails to protect you from the hit. I mean you also have to consider that even if you are in full plate armor, you could still 1/100 of a times dodge something.
It all depends on the context and the way you imagine it, true d&d style.
>>48235884
>shows exactly what is wrong with your argument
"wow, such an idiot"
>>48235904
tell that to your DM next time things aren't going your way.
>>48235948
he should be able to inform you instantly based on the results at hand, no one needs to ask anything. My point is that he can't, he needs to make up what happened. He can't say if you were actually hit based on the rules of the own game. Hell, some other games even specify where you were hit.
>>48235906
>Savage Worlds
I'm looking into it right now, and I'm not sure I like its game philosophy, at least in regards to "bennies". The DM apparently gets them to use for his villains, and the players for their heroes, so it kind of seems like it's setting up a system that encourages a Player-vs.-DM mentality. The idea that the DM is somehow giving their villains more chances seems weird to me.
>>48236076
Dude, roll over, you're dead.
You can't be this stupid and still have a functioning brain.
>>48236076
>he needs to make up what happened.
>He can't say if you were actually hit based on the rules of the own game.
And?
>>48236001
>The armor protects you from the arrow, or it doesn't and you still die
part of the impact is absorbed by the armor. That's why armor didn't become obsolete when the arrow was invented.
Are you really arguing there is NO substantial middle term when it comes to damage? anyway, my point is that there should be, like it exists in every other game.
>>48236076
>he needs to make up what happened
He is the DM, its his job to make shit up on the spot.
>>48236095
Part of the role of the DM in most systems is to play the antagonists (as well as the supporting characters). Giving the DM fun things to do like bennies is just acknowledging this role, and giving them rule support to make the villains play against the NPCs in interesting ways.
>>48236117
People wore chainmail inside the outer armor to survive arrows.
>>48236111
>And?
And that's when i realized d&d was garbage
>>48236117
Most other games do damage calculation wrong. D&D does it right.
>>48236124
>its his job to make shit up on the spot
not about the actual mechanics of the game.
>>48236140
and still got hurt badly, and still used it because it's better than not wearing anything.
>>48234917
>he actually likes d&d and picks on the one constructive post in the thread
>>48236142
Only because you've gotten it into your head that that's important, and that a game is garbage if it doesn't tell you. And that's fine, but I don't really feel you made a compelling case why anyone else should think it. It's basically "I don't like it so it's bad."
>>48236156
>not about the actual mechanics of the game.
Most of the time they do though. Like I think everyone changes D&D rules here and there. The game isn't meant to be played by the letter. At least my DM homebrews a lot of shit and we like it, more flexible that way.
>>48236156
>not about the actual mechanics of the game.
In this case, it's more of a fluff question than a mechanics question.
>>48236156
>not about the actual mechanics of the game.
That's exactly how old-school D&D (whence AC comes from) is meant to function. 'Here's rules for a bunch of stuff. If you encounter something not covered, bullshit something up.'
>>48235776
>implying you've ever played it
not the same guy but I love DCC. It's a nice mix of retro-clone and crunch. There's obvious flaws but it's great for dungeon delving.
>>48236111
NTGB some people dislike that abstraction. I also dislike it, and simply ignore that it's an abstraction, and run D&D as a surreal game set in a world where creatures become amazingly durable.
As for determining whether something is actually a hit or not, you can do that by breaking up AC into its parts.
Dodge AC is at the bottom.
Deflection is next.
Then Shield Bonus is next.
Next Armor.
Then Natural Armor.
If you dont beat 10+dodge, he dodged you. If you beat that but not deflection, it was deflected. If you beat that but not Shield, the Shield blocked it. If you beat that but not Armor, Their Armor stopped it, and if you beat that but not Natural Armor, their Natural Armor stopped it.
>>48236180
If not 'garbage', it's clearly doing less than the other options when it comes to consistency.
And it's not the only time that happened in d&d. Didn't bards used to hit with Charisma or someshit?
>>48235519
So, assuming you did not read it in the book and are just trolling, AC is how hard it is to land a meaingful attack on someone.
Dodging ability, physical armor, magic stuff, extraordinary luck, all of that is factored into AC.
Why does strength counter act dodging ability in melee?
Because DnD is still based on a wargame from the 70s in some ways, this continues to exist when many other games have introduced damage reducing armor.
>>48236191
>That's exactly how old-school D&D (whence AC comes from) is meant to function
see >>48236142
>>48236095
I don't actually like it, I'd much rather play pathfinder, and the Bennies (and how integral they are to everything working - if you didn't realize it bennies are also your HP if you're players) are a large part of the reason.
But I know lots of other people like it, and I know it has a few D&Dlike setting books and the like, and there's a guy who converted Eberron to it.
>>48236203
>you have to throw 5 dice everytime time you attack
holy shit
>>48236214
>Dodging ability, physical armor, magic stuff, extraordinary luck, all of that is factored into AC
Yeah, that's kind of my point. They just throw it all in a pool, even when things clearly doesn't work one like the other.
>>48236264
How come? They all deflect damage.
>>48236210
>Didn't bards used to hit with Charisma or someshit?
I don't know, I've never played that edition. Are you referring to spell attacks?
>>48236284
As explained, if you take a hit, it's not 0 or 10. You absorb only part of it most of the time. This is not accounted for d&d. It's like wearing armor, or no armor at all. Like they strip you naked for the damage.
>>48236210
Now you're making things up.
>>48236292
No. Actual attacks. Never got to play it myself, but that's how a friend explained to me, so i can't be sure of the specifics.
>>48236131
>Giving the DM fun things to do like bennies is just acknowledging this role
No it isn't it's implying he or she should get narrative bonuses to use as he sees fit to get his villains out of scrapes or give them a leg up on the players. I don't see how that enhances my players' fun. I don't see how that enhances my fun, unless I see it as a competition between me and them.
>>48236301
Well the enemy either hits you where it hurts or it doesn't. What's the issue?
>>48236301
There's optional rules in one book for this. I think it was the DMG or UA. But there's rules for giving armor damage reduction along with using 3d6 instead of 1d20. I've found that giving damage reduction makes the martials way way stronger throughout the game if you make it stack with all other sources of damage reduction.
Fucking adamantine plate gets nasty.
>>48236339
the level of 'hurt' can vary if you're wearing armor because it absorbs part of the damage, as i explained.
>>48236264
>lighter armoured dexterous character just narrowly misses getting hit
>you duck under the bow, the sound of the orc's blade cutting wind in your ear
>heavily armoured character gets hit, roll does low damage
>the ray pistol sparks off your platemail but dents and sears, the residual heat burns you for 4 dmg.
Not really seeing the problem here, the dice rolls are still informative enough that the dm can put together a plausible explanation without much fuss.
>>48234476
Stop
Making
This
Thread
>>48236254
What?
No.
One d20.
All I did was break AC down in a way that you can *accurately* determine the narrative results of an attack roll using the existing mechanics.
If you want to do that on a regular basis, it means multiple defensive numbers you would reference.
So, lets assume each thing is a +1.
<=10 +/-Size 0: Bad aim.
11: he dodged.
12: Blocked by deflection bonus
13: Blocked by shield bonus
14: Blocked by armor bonus
15: Blocked by natrual armor bonus
>>48236343
>along with using 3d6 instead of 1d20
Perfect.
>>48236362
Oh, and 16+ you hit and do damage.
>>48236301
Combine >>48236362 >>48236374 with the Armor as DR optional rule, and your problem is gone.
Also, d20 Conan has Armor as DR as the default rule. They made some significant changes to that game's engine, but on the surface it plays almost the same as D&D 3.5.
>>48236355
>the residual heat burns you for 4 dmg
this here doesn't happen in d&d according to the rules, you avoid the full attack even wearing plate mail, or take it all like not wearing anything.
>>48236362
>>48236254
I always thought it is best to let the guy chose one kind of defense.
>>48236315
I thought only 4e let you get +Cha to attacks out of the box. I assume there's some weird 3.X supplement that can handle it, too.
>>48236397
>heavily armoured character gets hit, roll does low damage
Please try to read.
>>48236350
But that's
1) Technicalities that no one cares about
2) Would make armor stronger than ninjas, and they are both suppose to be on the same ground
I see it more like when you punch a brick wall. Either you punch it strong enough to do full damage or you do no damage at all. Or when you punch a mouse, either you punch the mouse and kill it, or the mouse dodges you.
Level of hurting is for fags that wants the game to be based on feelings.
>>48236436
nono, I understand what he's getting it. He just actually can't extrapolate from a sentence, it can only mean what he thinks it mean. Its a common problem thing on the autism spectrum.
>>48236397
>Armor as DR.
>Optional rule in both 3.5 and Pathfinder.
>Just fucking use it, problem solved.
>>48236365
>3d6
If you're the GM, odds are you have a laptop in front of you, and 4@7d20 gives a similar curve over the entire d20 range.
http://anydice.com/program/8d3f
You know, I always wondered why literally the entire RPG scene in my city, which is the capital of my country, decided to go "you know what, FUCK D&D"
It was literally overnight too, and the only reason i heard from them is that "its limiting roleplay too much".
They pretty much shifted from any kind of D20/D6 ruleset and started playing indie ones with no dices used. ( or at most a d6 every half a hour)
This has happened like, several years back and to this day, on the forums they keep bitching at people who are new to the community and are looking for D&D.
>>48236411
Well, that will take a lot more work, because all the defense values in D&D assume you're using all of them (to make the character choose one you will have to rebalance all of those defensive values to much higher numbers), so you'll have to redesign the game to accomodate that assumption, rather than a small change that lets you interpret the narrative repercussions of the existing system.
>>48236485
>They pretty much shifted from any kind of D20/D6 ruleset and started playing indie ones with no dices used. ( or at most a d6 every half a hour)
There's a simple answer: Your capital is full of faggots.
>>48236485
fag city
>>48234940
Thirding DF.
>>48236523
It does feel like they just decided to go full on hipster mode. "This RPG is very widely used and people like it? Its shit, lets play this rpg with rules that fit into the palm of your hand, fuck yeah!"
>>48236485
Another thing is, they only do one-shots, no campaigns whatsoever, because the indie games are not made for that.
Seriously fuck that, If I want to play a rpg, i want to play it for weeks, months and not sit down in a bar one night, play for 4 hours and be done.
>>48236484
5@9d20 is even closer to 3d6, and again, covers the entire range.
But you can do 3@5d20, 4@7d20, 5@9d20, or 6@11d20, depending on the standard deviation you're looking for.
>>48236485
Also this is shit. Your city is shit. You can dislike D&D if you want, but it still plays better than a lot of other games.
what does @ mean here?
>>48235873
>There are lots of ways to break the game as a caster in 5e.
List'm.
>>48236604
I think it's a position counter.
The number before @ is the dice you take from the roll. So 5@9d20 would be the 5th dice.
>>48236580
Once in a while a 1-shot is good.
>Half the group is missing?
1Shot.
>People just want a break because you've played this campaign for 12 hours already this weekend.
1Shot.
>Gaming with people you can't coordinate a regular group with.
1Shot.
>>48236604
3rd highest of 5 d20s, all the way up to 5th highest of 9 d20s.
Basically, roll X(Rare Number)d20s, and take the middle result.
>>48236640
Precisely.
You could shift it by a dice to the left or right to make a roll more favorable without changing the max or min, as well.
>>48236663
I'd recommend just doing 3d20 keep the middle, since it's equally likely to get similar results with way less rolls.
>>48236663
Im not saying oneshots are bad, I played them several times with them, but the problem is when all you do.. is a oneshot. With people that you regularly meet up with. Imagine if your campaign was playing a different game every weekend.
This week we play space soldiers in space shooting aliens!
This week we play a mindfucky lsd induced rpg!
This week we pretend to be high school girls!
etc.
>>48236663
But if you're going to shift it to the left or right, you probably want a larger number of dice, or it makes a huge difference in the outcomes.
If you wanted to play with things, Someone lucky might take 4@9d20, and their most likely roll is 13.
3@9d20 most likely roll is 15&16
etc.
play with it on Anydice to see the odds.
Unfortunately it chokes once you get too high of a (#Dice*DieType).
>>48236695
It's not even remotely "equally likely"
Instead of a bell curve, 3d20 is a parabola.
The middle results are far less likely, and the edges are far more likely. You don't approximate the odds that match 3d6 until 9 dice.
And if you look at my original post, I pointed out that this is something you would want to use a dice roller with (such as the anydice webapp) which will automate the multiple results and selecting the middle number, rather than doing it with physical dice.
>>48236705
Oh yeah, that sounds like crap.
My group (which I can't participate in anymore since I moved across the country) gets together monthly, for a weekend, and plays 3-5 different recurring campaigns over the course of the weekend. Sometimes a 1shot is worked in. We almost always played Commander/EDH as well.
>>48236705
Have you tried talking them into starting a campaign in any of the various not-dnd games available? There are many, many options. If you want a campaign, you might have to run it though.
>>48236745
(multiple campaigns in that at least 2 of us would run something, typically 3 or 4 of us, and one guy likes to run two)
>>48234476
Better? Okay, I just created a new system. I named it Dcent because fuck it.
ALL you need is 2d10, to roll d%.
There are only 3 attributes: Body, Mind and Role.
Your Body can be Strong, Agile or Resilient (which is neither but since the average person needs less supplies to survive than a athlete, that's not so bad).
Your Mind can be Intelligent, Wise or Sane (which equals neither again but got it's uses).
Your Role represents what you do, what you are. Mage, Cop, Cowboy. You know things and act based on this bit.
Tests difficulty range from 1 to 100. If a test difficulty is 34, that means you need to get 34% or above in your d% to succeed.
Your attributes come in play when a test lays on one of them. If you need to lift a boulder, and your Body is Strong, you get a bonus. Need to do an investigation job and you're a Cop? Get a bonus.
Bonuses depend on the type of game chose by the GM and are added in the final result of a roll susceptible to bonus.
+15% for an Easy Game.
+10% for a Normal Game, and
+5% for a Hard Game.
Ex: On a normal game, a cowboy doing a test to tame a giant wild beast needs, for example a 70. He rolls a 60 but due to his Role, he gets an additional 10. The cowboy succeeded, and the beast is now tame.
For the rest, like initiative or virtually anything, roll a d%, or you can use 2 tools you already have at your disposal: Theater-of-the-Mind and (depending on the setting) semi realistic logic.
Have fun.
>>48236815
This is...
This is just a shitty Runequest/brp Quickstart.
And it's not complete enough to play, it's just a core mechanic.
Rune Quest / Open quest / Legend was suggested somewhere in the thread already, no?
Rune Quest has a free intro set on dtrpg if this is even a little bit what you want.
>>48236867
Pretty sure rune Quest isn't the only brp engine game with a free intro set either.
There are a couple of call of Cthulhu freebies, and I think brp head one too.
>>48236867
I am literally a newfag, new enough to not know what the fuck you're talking about.
So far that's all I've needed to create some sick stories with the bros.
But thanks anon, I'll definitely check those systems you mentioned.
I just hope them tables don't get in the way of our crazy fun...
>>48234913
>only played by hipsters
Well you heard it here first fellow tabletop enthusiasts, only hipsters play this game. He just turned us all into hipsters. WITH. ONLY. HIS. WORDS. We're out of our element here lads; who could ever stand against such might?
For real though, god damn, how am I ever going to deconstruct such a thorough and objective analysis, clearly based on years and years of tireless research? I tremble with a frightened curiosity, secretly hoping he will post his academy award winning post that explains why his views expressed via anime imageboard shitposting are actually the only way that anybody could or should ever possibly think about the aggregate collective of ALL old school D&D players, who have ever been born, and who are no longer among us, and yes, even the curled babes still fresh within their mothers womb.
>>48234476
AC. Well, it is what it is. If you are wearing armor and because of it a deep cut becomes a shallow cut or scratch, then you took reduced damage thanks to armor. If that cut only scratches the armor, like plate mail vs. katana, then AC makes sense. Really, they should have weapon class WC (kek) too. Katanas can't cut through tank armor, and leather is worthless against nuclear missiles. This was based on naval warfare right? Boats. I can't sink a battleship with a sling. HP is the real problem though.
>>48237117
I would personally prefer a wound system, maybe only using HP when thinking about nonlethal damage, or simply a pain indicator for passing out.
>>48236920
>Tables
That's role master. Different game.
Rune Quest is a full game with the basic core mechanic you just described.
However, it does have an extensive skill list, rather than "role". But "role" is basically the skill I give to NPCs when running rq. (I give them 2 skills, basically, role, and subrole, with role always being the higher of the two). Subrole is stuff they'd have some experience with but not their main focus. Hobbies, uncommonly used skillets that are still part of their role somewhat, etc.
But changing up the skill list is easy if you choose to do so.
>>48237117
The katana can hit you in the eye sockets, its fast as fuck at the end of the day so you aren't safe even if you have plate.
>>48237167
forded one mirrion time
cut through gaijin steer pratu rike buttar :B
>>48237185
nice meme bro
>>48237150
Runequest has a small non growing hp pool divided up between hit locations.
Openquest has a small pool of regular hp, but I don't have a ton of experience with it.
Magic world/Eric has a wound system. Converting stuff between these different d100 systems is trivial.
>>48237167
A katana's swing rate is no faster than a long sword, if you are measuring angle. If you measure "just the tip" the weapon with the longest reach wins. Anyway thanks for taking the katana bait so I know u are a weeabo and know nothing about what you are talking about
>>48237213
The meme started here
>>48237167.
>>48237223
I was half joking, that part was just a joke, the other part was legit. You can still be hit even if your weapon can't breach your armor.
>>48237159
Noice.
This subrole thing seems really cool.
Also i just noticed I didn't bother with criticals. I'll go with 1-5% and 96-100% I guess.
Seems like this Runequest is our kind of game.
Thanks again (or for the first time, I dunno).
>>48234476
When I played aD&D for the first time many,many years ago, and my DM told me that Mad at Arms couldn't sneak around and impale someone from behind, because only Thieves do that.
And I told him that clearly he didn't understood how fucking terrifying someone called Man of Motherfucking Arms should be, and that was silly as clearly sneaking around behind enemies is Man At Arms 101, they go to fuckign wars and that's how they fucking kill the unsuspected before charging like a mofo.
And there was absolutely no rules to back me up, and we had to fiat it.
So, yeah. It was shit back them. And holy shit, the system in its 5th edition still is bad at handling this.
>>48237243
Well in your example I am assuming the eye socket is not wearing plate mail, so I don't really see your point? Aren't you just Ignoring armor here? In fact, I think it's stated in D&D it's assumed you always try to hit in the most effective way, so any guy not wearing helmet should basically have armor ignored right?
>>48237297
No, a guy with no helmet gets cut on the head.
a guy in full plate armor with no space for hit save the eyes, gets hit on the eyes
a guy burrowed underground with only his arms undercover gets hits on the arms
In every possible scenario, whenever you fail the save, you get hit in a location where you would get wounded.
So even if you were wearing a full plate armor, and the opponent had a kitchen fork, you would still take full damage if you fail the save.
>>48236095
In a system where any malnourished hobo can get a lucky exploding hit and instakill your big dick G BBEG from full health, a mechanic like this is only logical.
>>48237321
Yes, a guy with no helmet gets cut in the head. Now tell me why wearing a breastplate makes this harder? Do you see my point about AC now?
>>48237253
All me bro. I'll do you one more solid:
Have the core rq6 book and mythic Britain.
https://mega.co.nz/#!VlASVJzB!8Yyk13buIc-4QTICUUgKZc3KW-97Yo2Ar-xpUpCS8TU
https://mega.co.nz/#!g1JXUJKQ!xqCdi-p2pHWQeTZNXZvhDUt8gTfKdUdOPKHoGxj6WF8
If you want the Quickstart, that's free on drivetgrurpg.
For more info, I'd suggest checking out brp central. A lot of the authors hang out there.
>>48237366
I would say that a system like that is not functional to begin with, and a couple of fudged rolls you get to do are not going to change that.
>>48237370
Because the guy with no breastplate gets hit on the chest, hitting the chest is easier than hitting the head, and hitting the head is easier than hitting the eyes.
Thus, AC.
>>48237253
I dont call them role and subrole, I call them primary and secondary. Role is just a word I slap on the character to remind me what they do. Primary and secondary is for whether a trash is primary or secondary to the character. (If it's neither they just don't do it/fail)
ITT: Garbage RPers, if you can't have your whole group enjoy the game no matter the system, it means your group is bad and you should feel bad for contributing to why the group is bad.
hell i've played wraethtlu and holy racial war and you can even have fun on both of those shitpits of a game, ya'll just lame with lameass groups.
>>48237366
That's pretty realistic though. Any malnourished hobo can kill a mortal.
>>48237370
So go fucking play Runequest. There are games that do what you want already.
>>48237404
Whether a task*
>>48237402
No that doesn't work. There is no penalties for choosing to hit the head vs chest in the core, even if said area is smaller, and I can always make the comparison between body parts of equal area, in which case your argument is void
>>48237396
If agree that a system so dependent on bennies doesn't work well. I'm not a fan. But other people seem be okay with this reliance on bennies, so I mentioned it for completeness.
>>48237467
If you want armor that reduces damage, and hit locations, go play a system with those things. No D&D is designed that way.
>>48237467
the core isn't a bible
>>48237482
No, I like D&D, but that doesn't mean we can't supplement with house rules. Specifically when it comes to low-magic settings
>>48237503
Yeah sorry if I sounded autistic, but AC and swordplay etc. was obviously downplayed and oversimplified since the system is more concerned about magic.
>>48237482
>>48237467
>>48237421
>>48237402
>>48237370
>>48237366
>>48237321
>>48237297
>>48237427
This guy has the idea.
You're talking about what dnd lacks, the things you're complaining dnd lacks are in rq, which I posted a link to here
>>48237378.
And Iirc gurps can do that too, but most games don't.
>>48237512
>I like D&D.
>D&D.
>Houserules Low-magic.
Oh.
Then get d20 Conan. It does almost all of the things you're talking about it of the box, and it's way better than any stock D&D at low magic.
>>48234690
>"I shoot the thief."
>"Okay, where were you standing, exactly?"
>"Right here, next to the lamp post."
>"Standing on the curb or on the street, two inches down?"
>"On the curb."
>"Okay, so it technically counts as a vertical drop, too. And if he's running as a full action diagonal to you, and your shot only takes a half action, that means that your shot is aimed at where he is halfway during his movement, which is right there, next to the wagon. Since it's diagonal, I guess we can't just use the Pythagorean theorem to calculate distance, so I guess we'll just have to use trigonometry. Now, if we use... Shit, was it sine or cosine if we're starting at the second-longest line?"
>"I'm pretty sure its cosine."
>"Wait, you guys, if we just count it from the lamp post we can make a right triangle and use Pythagoras' Theorem.
>"Oh, good thinking! So if he's 13 tiles in this direction..."
>"Wait, if you use the lamp post instead of where he's standing that puts the party healer in deviation range, which isn't fair."
>"Fine, I'll just use cosine. Okay, roll your archery plus a few die."
>"Miss. Roll for deviation."
>"Critical? Well... it hits the wagon's wheel's mounting point, causing it to roll off and knock the thief to the ground."
>"Shit, I forgot about the two inch height difference. Everyone mind if we go back and redo the roll?"
>"Okay, add the elevation to the sine of 13 feet on 47 degrees..."
>>48237554
You put a lot of effort into this gurps parody. It made me Smith though, so good on you.
It's nothing like that, of course.
TELL ME GOOD FATE MODULES
>>48237554
>use Pythagoras' Theorem.
haha wtft
>>48237568
I will admit, I've never actually used the system. I have looked over a few of the books though and holy hell you really can do anything with it.
>>48236605
Let's start with the one you can just stumble into: Necromancy. Animate Dead is a spell that really should have a concentration duration, but doesn't, so you can build up armies of upwards of a hundred mooks. Thanks to bounded accuracy, a hundred mooks can dish out more punishment than anyone else could ever hope to, and have the additional advantage of being able to be split up into multiple smaller units. I actually like the fact that a single hero can't generally taken on an entire maniple and expect to win, but it is kind of an issue when raising an undead maniple is something that a necromancer can easily do.
A related problem is Animate Object. Animate Object allows a Wizard to spit out quite a bit of damage with a swift action, or even no action at all if the animated objects are already in combat, while still using their standard action for their nova spells. Definitely choose to animate large amounts of small things, not a small amount of big things, because the smaller things have flat-out better total HP and damage per round in addition to generally being harder to hit, with their only real downside being that they're slightly more vulnerable to AoE, which is an edge case problem.
Concentration durations prevent a single min-maxing Cleric archer from putting the Fighter to shame, but an all-Cleric party can buff one of their number up to the gills, and the fact that the target of the buffs is a Cleric and not a Fighter increases the total number of buffs on the guy by one, so you're still better off with four Clerics as opposed to three Clerics plus a martial.
This is a skill monkey problem and not a martials problem, but casters are still able to pick up the skill monkeys' entire schtick and walk away with it. In fact, with the new spell preparation rules, it's slightly easier for them to do so. They can prep a few combat spells and then some utility spells that obviate all the Rogues' proficiencies without necessarily spending any slots.
>>48237620
Yeah. It's a single, flexible core book, with supplements to make it do basically anything you might want to do.
Basically the only thing it's really lacking is an easy means to point-buy build equipment and vehicles. There's gurps space ships, but it has severe limitations, unfortunately. Some guys use 3e gurps mecha, and others build them as though building allies or powers, and then handwaive a financial price if it's not an integral part of the character or signature equipment like Stark's iron man suit.
I just started to get into it about two months ago. Thus far I haven't used it to replace d&d, but for anything lower powered it's now my go-to.
It can do high powered, but apparently it gets easy to break one you give the pcs a jillion points, which is somewhat necessary to build characters at god-levels.
>>48235797
>muh abstractions!
Abstractions only work when you're consistent with how they're used, something which D&D avoids.
>being light and nimble increased your AC the exact same way as wearing incredibly heavy armour that slows you down
That doesn't make any fucking sense.
>>48237035
>this hipster was this butthut by that post
Hilarious, what in the fuck is wrong with you D&D junkies?
>>48235971
Do note, if the opportunity presents itself, you can way outdamage the fighter using an AoE (or some higher damage single target maybe?) spell instead of an eldritch blast using your slots.
Also, if you actually calculate the decrease in DPR from the miss chance from GWM, you get a much more even DPR even with action surge.
>>48236587
It doesn't, though. I mean, ok, it does, but that's just because there are so many systems that are bad. But all the big classical systems play better than D&D, and manages to merge fluff and crunch way better than D&D does.
>>48237860
Armor that slows you down is why max Dex is a thing. It limits the Dex bonus you can add to AC due to how restricted your movement
>>48238193
There are several "big classical" systems where I like the gameplay less than D&D.
Owod (that's 7 or 8 right there), dreamlands/hell on earth Savage worlds, Rolemaster, whfrp, m&m, unisystem classic & cinematic, cortex, to name a few.
And in all of these examples, it's the mechanics, not the settings, that made me decide I'd rather have no game than play them again.
That's not counting games where I find they're too tied to their bundled setting, and I avoid playing them because i hate the setting and it's not worth the mechanical or social effort it would take to try running them without the setting (nwod, wh40k).
D&D, isn't even close to perfect, but it's got 6 editions (counting 3.0 and pf) that I at least consider playable enough that I won't turn down a campaign with friends because the system will kill all the fun for me.
>>48238267
Deadlands. Sorry.
Fucking auto correct. I'm posting from my phone.
>>48238267
The 6 editions of play if the group seemed good are 2e, 3.0, 3.5, pf, 4e, 5e.
Id also play fantasy craft, true20, and d20 Conan, which are all d20 based systems similar to d&d.
![[Commie] Senki Zesshou Symphogear GX - 05 [BC9F61B4].mkv_snapshot_20.12_[2015.08.08_00.36.20].png](https://i.imgur.com/j8oi9oJ.jpg "[Commie] Senki Zesshou Symphogear GX - 05 [BC9F61B4].mkv_snapshot_20.12_[2015.08.08_00.36.20].png")
>>48235216
This is data from one site. It means shit.
Warhammer games were actually outselling D&D right before 5e came out.
And popularity means shit really. Avatar being the #1 movie and Dance With the Stars being the #1 TV show is all the proof necessary.
>>48238294
I just want something that has more mechanics than "you swing your sword" fighter when making basic attacks
>>48238329
>T-thats a-argumentum ad p-populum
>*puts on hipsterglasses*
>*teleports behind you*
>Pssht, nothing mainstream kid
>>48238364
>I have no argument
Truth hurts.
>>48238376
>Truth hurts, kid,
>*sheathes hipsterglasses and walks away into the sunset*
>>48236519
>you'll have to redesign the game to accomodate that assumption
You really won't.
"The ghoul slashes at you"
"I block his blow with my shield"
*attack rolls above*
"The ghoul is too fast, and slashes you across the face for 5 damage"
*attack rolls below*
"The ghouls claws scrape across your shield"
>>48238401
Next you'll tell me that CoD and Twilight are great.
>>48238334
D20 Conan, since you want a d&d like.
Runequest if you're willing to leave your d20 bubble.
>>48238422
It's really pointless with how D&D works.
If you want realistic combat there are dozens of better systems out there. No reason to waste time redesigning something that was never made to work that way.
>>48238422
Okay, if you say so.
Enjoy having your players get hit far more often, and defense being mostly useless, because their AC scores are now a small fraction of what they were before, and you don't think you need to redesign all of the defense options despite changing it so you now only get 1 at a time instead of half a dozen at once.
>>48238334
Play other systems? Warhammer 2e has 12 maneuvers for basic weapon.
>>48238464
>It's really pointless with how D&D works.
No, it really isn't, unless you're someone who gets all depressed when the rules aren't geared toward 100% accuracy.
The colorful descriptions are not there to reflect numbers-based mechanics perfectly, they're to add more fun and social interaction to the game.
>If you want realistic combat there are dozens of better systems out there.
Never once did I imply that I wanted that at all. See my above comment.
>>48238491
What the fuck are you even describing? What redesign?
>>48238497
It is pointless. You can never have a semi realistic combat in a system where humans can have 100+ HP when sword deals d8.
D&D is a combat board game disguised as rpg.
>>48238334
4e?
>>48238506
Rebalancing all of the values for all of the defensive options the players get, and all the values for all the defensive options the monsters have so they're not completely worthless, while also ideally making it so there is also a meaningful difference between the different kinds of defenses.
You can't be dumb enough to think the game will work okay if you just say "you only get one defensive bonus" without any changes, can you?
Currently it's set up so you can have anywhere between 1 and like, 7 ac sources, together or not, and which approach you take will vary by class, too.
This will not only throw off any attack vs defense design in the system, completely, it'll also do it unevenly to different characters, as some defense oriented characters/monsters/classes will suddenly have no decent defensive options higher than like 12, while another less defense oriented characters might have a 16 because it's all from the same source.
>>48238533
D20 Conan.
The trick is the greatly expanded combat rules, hp basically capped at level 10, and death by massive damage rolls any time you take>=20 damage.
>>48238573
>You can't be dumb enough to think the game will work okay if you just say "you only get one defensive bonus" without any changes, can you?
I never said that. You're just an idiot that assumed that without ever actually reading it in my posts.
>>48238573
In short, your "single change" drastically alters a thousand other things in the system, and not always the same way.
>>48238573
Additionally, having both a shield and armor is now a useless waste of gold, which, just, that's an iconic image. If you can't play a knight in fantasy, you better have a damn good setting reason for it.
>>48238610
>In short, your "single change"
>"single change"
There you go again, quoting an imaginary opponent when no one actually said that in real life.
>>48238599
You said you wouldn't have to redesign anything other than making them only have a single descendance option, and got all confused when I pointed out, up until I explained it like you were retarded. How else would I read your posts?
Either way, >>48238589, d20 Conan is the closest you're going to find to what you're describing in d&d, and you already vetoed the other suggestions people gave you.
Good luck with your homebrew.
>>48238612
To be fair, fullplate+shield was historically quite useless for just about anything but jousting/tournament fights. If you had full plate, you can more or less leave the shield home and use something in two hands instead.
>>48238612
>Additionally, having both a shield and armor is now a useless waste of gold, which, just, that's an iconic image. If you can't play a knight in fantasy, you better have a damn good setting reason for it.
No one ever advocated switching off AC bonuses except for >>48238573 this guy.
>>48238638
>You said you wouldn't have to redesign anything other than making them only have a single descendance option
No I didn't. Read my posts again.I said you don't have to "redesign" ANYTHING. It's fluff. You're so stupid, you've been arguing against a position no one actually ever took.
>>48236411
>I always thought it is best to let the guy chose one kind of defense.
Really?
Because this is the post the rest of us have been criticizing.
>>48238651
>Because this is the post the rest of us have been criticizing.
More like completely misunderstanding.
>>48238649
And
>>48238422
>>you'll have to redesign the game to accomodate that assumption
>You really won't.
>>48238649
>I said you don't have to "redesign" ANYTHING
>You really won't.
I see no contradiction.
>>48238661
Of course, followed by lots of pretending to be misunderstood, and backpedaling and then saying you didn't actually mean you'd have people choose one kind of defense, and if you did then you would of course have to redesign things to accommodate that large change.
>>48234807
So you LARP now?
Fuck, he's got a lot to answer for.
>>48234913
>>>48234825 #
>>D&D existed for a quarter century prior to the OGL and the d20 system
>Only played by hipsters
Be less young. Some of us played 1E at release.
>>48238674
Really? Your 'out' is that you're being obtuse and arguing how much change constitutes "redesign", and that rebalancing all of the defensive options and adding in more interesting combat techniques anyone can attempt as a basic attack and updating ask of the monsters and character classes you use to accommodate these changes doesn't constitute any redesigning?
Fuck yourself with a cheese grater.
>>48238435
>In this moment, I am euphoric
>*tips fedora*
>>48238665
I will endeavor to make this very clear for you, because you seem slow.
Someone advocated a system where you determine where a person was hit or not given the die roll.
Another person came in and said "I always thought it is best to let the guy chose one kind of defense." Likely meaning "I let the player role-play what defending means, and a hit means they fail, and a miss means they succeed."
Then, Chief Idiot came in and started saying "Well you'll have to rebalance the whole game if you give them only one defense bonus at a time!" Even though no one had ever advocated for that, ever.
Then, I came in and showed how this works with an example roleplay interaction.
Then Chief Idiot doubled down on his retarded "But you'll have to redesign the whole game mechanically!"shit, even though no one had ever advocated anything more than just not using the stupid >>48236362 system, and just talking like human beings instead.
And it seems to have gone on like that, because no matter how many times I say "don't redesign anything, I never said redesign" the samefag keeps hearing what he wants to hear.
>>48238651
I actually like this idea somewhat. It doesn't have to be game-breaking. Let's say you can either try to dodge, parry with your weapon, or block with your shield. And then we could have slightly different mechanics for each, and the players get some more interaction.
>>48238696
>Fuck yourself with a cheese grater.
No man, fuck you. You're arguing against something no one ever advocated at all. This is the most literal version of a strawman I've ever seen, bcause you can trace back to the part where you >>48236519 misrepresented someone's comment, and made up a system to show how stupid it was, even though you made it up yourself.
>>48234476
When I learned its rules.
>>48238823
Funny, that's exactly when I figured out Savage Worlds was crap.
>>48238267
>WFRP
>Worse mechanics than Deendee
Enjoy your HP bloat, faget.
>>48238740
As with headshots, it always results in one superior choice being taken over and over and over again.
>>48238723
Did you just get here?
Because most of this discussion had been filled with some guy, or a couple guys, whining that dnd combat isn't mechanically realistic enough, and then ignoring all of the advice and other systems they were pointed at that do what they were asking for, and complaining about how ac and hp works in particular.
He wasn't interested in fluffing it like everyone who plays dnd ever, and wasnt interested in another game with combat rules more like what described.
Then the guy came in and suggested if he really wanted something more granular for ac he could break it down more, and explained how you might do that.
One defense at a time guy comes along, I thought it was this same autist from most of the thread, proposing a stupid idea, and tried to explain why it's not likely to work out well.
You then tell me you wouldn't need to redesign anything to do that, and give a bunch fluff.
Then someone responds to you and points out that if you implement that change it will have mechanical consequences and you get all confused >>48238506 and he seems to try to explain it to you. Evidently also thinking it's the same autist from earlier.
Then you say you never said that. You certainly implied it and waited a long ass time to clarify, given the context of this entire thread before the guy said he prefers they only get to choose one defensive option.
At this point I also had you pegged as the same guy, and also as the autist, but it's 4chan so you never know.
Then you say you were discussing fluff the whole time like a reasonable person, and get an annoyed reply to your bs.
Given the thread you're in, why would you assume the guy who says he only wants to offer a single defensive option is speaking fluff, not numbers, in the context of bitching about ac not being simulationist enough and someone bitching about the hp as an abstraction and armor not always provoking damage reduction?
I mean, really?
>>48235563
It's cause Shadowrun is so fun people don't wanna DM. They just wanna play.
>>48234476
No, there are no such games and there will never be. D&D is the premier hack-and-slash, kill-and-loot, maim-and-level Fantasy Roleplaying Game. And it will occupy the throne in that niche until the end of time itself.
That said, I hate this niche so I don't care.
>>48238888
>At this point I also had you pegged as the same guy, and also as the autist,
Sorry man. The only autist was ever you. This guy
>>48236411
and me
>>48238422
Never advocated a mechanical change to the game, you just interpreted it that way.
>>48238849
Enjoy your stableboy profession as a character class, cumdumpster.
That game was just a shit version of Runequest. When I want Runequest I'll play it instead.
But given a choice between dnd and whfrp, even if it's 3.0 I'm going to pick dnd over it. No fucking thanks.
>>48238911
Eh. Given all the whining about abstract hp and attack rolls not telling you accurately what happens and having make it up, and all the talk of wanting more in depth combat rules, I still don't see how either of you two would have thought it would be taken as a discussion of fluff without further clarification, and clearly I'm not the only one.
>>48238888
>Given the thread you're in, why would you assume the guy who says he only wants to offer a single defensive option is speaking fluff, not numbers, in the context of bitching about ac not being simulationist enough and someone bitching about the hp as an abstraction and armor not always provoking damage reduction?
Because I never said I "only wants to offer a single defensive option" dumbass. You said that. I was agreeing with the guy who said he lets the player choose the defense. He said that because the other guy was trying make a mechanical simulation of where you got hit. If you are >>48236519 you are a turbo-retard. It's very common to do something like >>48238422 for a little color and action. It's even in the handbooks. It doesn't mean you have to rewrite any mechanics.
>>48238922
I played countless WH games over the years and we never, ever rolled for class outside of few short games just for fun.
>>48238934
>I still don't see how either of you two would have thought it would be taken as a discussion of fluff
It was fluff from this comment >>48236362
though. He was giving his concrete system for how he describes the misses, but never advocated for any differences to damage or accuracy, just description This guy >>48236411
responded the same way. It wasn't until this idiot >>48236519 that anyone brought up actually rewriting the combat system in a way that mattered.
>>48238888
Could this problem be solved by combining fencing, paintball, and dice?
The modified 5e that Critical Role uses seems pretty simple and universal. If I was going to run D&D, I would use that.
>>48238888
>One defense at a time guy comes along
Nope. He said "let the player choose their defense".
>>48238940
Yeah. That post was me. Of course that's common. That's what I do in my games too. But the dude you're saying was just talking narrative, he came across as the same autist bitching about not having the rules tell him the narrative outcome of an attack roll, in depth, and bitching about armor being all or nothing. So I thought this was more of the same bs, and I told him if he wanted to change that too, it wouldn't work well, and it would involve reworking a bunch of other stuff too accommodate it. Especially after the posts talking about how they needed better low magic dnd houserules.
It's not like it's hard to think two posters are the same crazy person on 4chan.
>>48237167
>Being this fucking retarded
Fucking weebs.
If a katana his anything that's even slightly hardened metal, it's shattering. Don't believe everything your animes tell you anon.
>>48238922
>Enjoy your stableboy profession
Yes, that is exactly the fun part. To bring up a hero from humble beginnings.
>every d100 game is Runequest
Fuck off.
>>48239009
>I always thought it is best to let the guy chose one kind of defense.
>Let the guy choose one kind of defense
>Choose one kind of defense.
Given the what came before it, I can definitely see how that can be read as a guy with weird horseless or something, and see where the confusion came from.
>>48239032
Fags like you are just as dumb as weebs.
Real katanas were actually quite thick and heavy.
>>48239093
I'm sure they were Naruto.
>ITT: we edge Lord rage about other people saying bad things about our favorite system.
>>48239049
>Every d100 game is Runequest
>Gw published rq in England in the early days.
>Whfrp comes out with the same core mechanic.
Not every d100 game is Runequest, but yeah, whfrp basically is.
>>48239122
It's Runequest with +/- difficulty modifiers and a different skill list and magic system.
>>48239098
You're a moron. Watch 4:16 onwards.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=R4plBF80UBo
>>48239122
gw published all kinds of shit in early days
>>48239182
also attributes from wfrp (where it really comes from) and critical hits. so basically a different system.
>>48236920
The starter rules are 34 pages long (Mythras is RuneQuest6 made 100% generic system).
At least the FFG shills are not in this thread.
Fuck anyone thinking any P&P game FFG has made is better than D&D.
>>48239407
Oh good I thought I was the only one who hated their games.
>>48239407
>>48239412
Dark Heresy 1 is better than any edition or direct derivative of D&D.
>>48239440
too bad DH2 and it's derivatives are all hot shit.
Oh look. An entire thread of eternally triggered bitch-anons.
>>48239461
Do you mean the PFags or the anti-PFags?
This is important.
>>48238881
Well, you could give attackers similar options, and then you would have a rock-paper-scissor way of melee combat. Besides, not everyone is a power gamer, and if you were, you would not be a melee fighter would you
>>48239481
Both
>>48239440
DH1 wasn't FFG, and was a bad BRP hack
>>48239541
I mean, couldn't this be fun? Trying to guess what attack your opponent will do, or perhaps making risky all out attacks, trying to sidestep and counter attack if he lunges etc .
>>48239461
It will literally never stop.
The bitch-anons will continue to be eternally triggered until D&D stops being popular, which isn't likely to ever happen, no matter how much they complain.
They will be triggered every time they see D&D, and that won't stop until they finally stop going to RPG discussion boards.
>>48239571
>every d100 game is a BRP/Runequest hack
This meme needs to die.
>>48239755
All we want is that as many Deendee gamers as possible understand how much they are frowned upon by real gamers.
>>48239773
But DH1 *was* a BRP hack
>>48239755
Wait, wait, I though both those who get nauseated at the mention of D&D and the PFags who can't deal with it are eternally triggered bitch anons?
Have I been living a lie?
>>48234476
If you're partial to the central mechanical hooks of the d20 System, FantasyCraft and True20 both make positive changes and take it in some interesting directions. The most important one in my opinion is that they make skills more worthwhile on top of unfucking the way magic works (although a common complaint in FantasyCraft is that magic users sort of suck; there's a supplement in the works to improve that but it's also in development hell right now).
Rule of Cool's 'Legend' is also quite good with its own novel twists, but it died before being totally completed and so lacks any sort of bestiary. You'll have to make your own monsters, and while it's got a few guidelines to help the process is still less than ideal.
>>48238329
47,000 players on the most popular digital tabletop website is too small of a sample size? That's hilarious.
I guess data you don't like doesn't count.
