http://io9.gizmodo.com/dungeons-dragons-is-heading-to-magic-the-gatherings-1783442350
is literally anybody surprised by this cashgrab bullshit?
>released as free PDFs
>made by MtG staff basically on their lunchbreaks
>cashgrab
OP, I....
People have been begging for this shit for years.
If anything this is a weird sensible move for WotC.
Bruh,
1) Who cares? It's free.
2) Read the first line of the article. Free Zendikar pdf came out months ago.
>>48227655
That's actually pretty awesome. Might see about running a game of that.
Although, where does the setting take place in the time line? Is this pre-Avacyn Restored? Pre-Shadows over Innistrad/Eldritch moon? Or no particular point in time?
I'm just curious if it will have Eldrazi or not
>>48227708
>Begging for a setting that already exist instead of just playing in the already existing setting
Americans
>>48227744
>Free Zendikar pdf came out months ago.
And it was appallingly lazy and actually tried to say
R = Chaos
W = Good
U = Lawful
B = Evil
G = Neutral.
It was a trainwreck.
It's hardly cashgrab when it's free. Granted, it's kind-of advertising for MtG, but it's also what some people have asked for so there.
I personally do not find MtG universe a very interesting place. Perhaps Ravnica could turn into an interesting setting if modified a bit but that's it.
But if some people enjoy this. Hell, let them.
>>48227781
/thread
>>48227655
>first
>ignoring they already did planeshift zendikar
I just want them to get to Ravnica and Lorwyn already
>>48227772
Who cares? Nobody pays attention to alignment anyway. The only thing there that's really out of place is that White is Lawful, not Good, and Black/Blue are also more neutral.
>>48227772
>W=Good
Bullshit
>B=Evil
Bullshit
Fuck this shit, they don't even know how it works
>>48227767
Well, based on the art they chose, it looks like the church of Avacyn is still a thing.
Eldrazi got rules in the Zendikar PDF as well I think, so running it in whichever wouldn't be too tricky.
>>48227655
>Different humans
Stupid, provicies aren't that far one from each other, also it's not like people evolved different, they're connected well enough. This is adding differences for the sake of adding differences
Of all the planes in Magic the Gathering, Innistrad is the one I would most want to run a campaign in.
That being said, D&D already has a setting for this. It's called Ravenloft. They should have just brought that back instead as a as a fully-fledged campaign world.
Also, Magic the Gathering's definition of a "plane" is somewhat lacking. When I think plane, I think plane of existence, not just a smattering of kingdoms with a unifying theme. How big is it? Is it on a planet? Or literally just a flat plane? Is it turtles all the way down? What lies beyond the borders of the regions we have seen in the cards? It's gotta be bigger than that, right? If not, that makes it pretty much just demiplane, which makes it even more like Ravenloft.
I feel like Magic the Gathering as a whole needs a lot more fleshing out before it can be a actual campaign setting in D&D. But maybe that's just me.
>>48227882
That's okay, he was just parroting bullshit anyway. That was not at all what the pdf was saying.
>>48227655
Fuck YES.
I am so up for this.
To be honest, I'd be up for an Innistrad wargame too. I just love Innistrad.
>>48227923
Planes in MTG are basically bubbles of mana surrounded by aether floating in the blind eterneties. They can be basically any size. Some of them are flat discs. Some are planets. Some are closer to solar systems. Some are tiny demi-planes.
A plane in MTG is basically just a habitable zone that follows its own rules. The best comparison is often planets. Innistrad has seas, continents, and a moon.
>>48227933
>I just love Innistrad.
So did I...till they fucked it and destroyed it in SoI
>>48227960
>Innistrad has a sea
>A continent
>and a moon
Signs point to it being smaller than wales.
>>48227960
I guess I will just have to wait and see how it is presented in the material. I had similar issues wrapping my head around Ravnica as an entire plane that is just one big city. If they were defining plane as stretching infinitely in all directions, it wouldn't make sense. But if it's more like Coruscant, and all self-contained on a single world, it's easier to digest.
>>48227980
I get the impression they managed to get the flying spaghetti monster in the moon before too much of the place was bismuth'd like Zendikar was. I don't know if the tentacle plague is a lingering sort of thing, though.
>>48228023
Ravnica is a planet like Coruscant. It's one of the more 'normal' worlds, too. It's just entirely city because urban sprawl covered the entire surface.
>>48228035
I bet they will keep the eldritch horror theme and incorporate it as a part of the aesthetic of Innistrad. I'm very okay with this.
>>48228016
Wales has its own moon? I also said seas and continents, as in plural. They're not the focus, but other places do exist on innistrad
>>48227655
Eh, it could be really awesome. But I hope it's either pre-Leliana/Garruk Innistrad, where we can see humanity struggle under Avacyn's protection against the beasts of the night, or pre-Emrakul'd Innistrad, so that we can see the golden age of mankind and angels as it slowly becomes a nightmare.
>>48227980
>Horror setting
>More horror elements added
>This ruins the setting
How?
>>48228023
So what's at the end of Ravnica? A magic barrier? Is Ravnica just spherical and it all runs together?
>>48228049
Yeah, that's how I had to define it in my head canon. Kind of wish there was a little bit more to the MtG planes then just pockets and bubbles of themed "worlds", but there's only so much you can do with a constructed card game and it's lore.
>>48228035
Humans are on the verge of extinction in Innistrad, Olivia is now the Queen of all vampires, and there's literally 1 non batshit crazy angel to protect the whole plane, and she can't do much, meanwhile werewolves, vampires, geists, demons, devils, angels and mutants all want to rip human's insides apart, well, the few humans that are still alive.
Once all humans die the next ones are werewolves and vampires because they have their food suplies (and way of increasing their troops) depending entirely of humans, after that Innistrad will be only geists and demons.
Sure, imprissioning Memekul in the moon will save Innistrad in the short term, but the plane is doomed.
>>48228075
Probably like the phlogiston in D&D (Spelljammer). Nothing exists outside the bubble except void space, until you reach the next bubble.
>>48228049
More like Naboo...because like Naboo, Ravnica has a water core
>>48228016
Innistrad is confirmed to have other continents, purportedly with weretigers. We just haven't visited them.
It took a while to show all of Dominaria, too.
>>48228075
Ravnica is a sphere. It has a barrier of aether at the top of the atmosphere that would be the edge of the plane. Ravnica has large underground oceans that all the buildings are piled up on.
There are planes that could be flat as well, though those would just have the aether cloud on the edges.
>>48228067
I didn't say ruined, I said destroyed, because, Innistrad is literally doomed, it's beyond salvation, it's one generation away of being Grixis
>>48228085
>there's literally 1 non batshit crazy angel to protect the whole plane
First off, the St. Traft's angelic stand proves otherwise.
Second, they kind of lack of faith in Sigarda the one true angel is the kind of thing that lets the vampires win.
>>48228075
>So what's at the end of Ravnica?
We don't know, but rest assured that the Izzet League is working to find out and then figure out how to go beyond the barriers of our limited reality.
>>48228085
>Humans are on the verge of extinction in Innistrad
Meh, that's what they were saying during Dark Ascension too, and we know how that worked out.
>>48228132
In Dark Ascension they still had 3 mayor angels and all their troops to defend them, also humans were way more numerous than now.
>>48227923
The current season is set in Ravenloft, both AL Modules and "Curse of Strahd" hardback.
It's total ass and it's pretty much turned the whole fanbase against Ravenloft in general.
>>48228085
>Olivia is now the Queen of all vampires,
Wouldn't vampires have been at least as hard hit by Memerakul as humans and werewolves? Vamps were the center of Madness.dec, and we've had a number of Eldrazified/Horror Vampires. Also, Olivia is a fucking retard.
>>48228158
>It's total ass
Is it? I quite like what I've played of read of Ravenloft and AL both.
>>48228132
>>48228085
>>48228149
The humans have Rem Karolus. They'll be just fine.
>>48228166
>Also, Olivia is a fucking retard.
I was seriously hoping she would die screaming as Brinsela peels her apart, followed immediately by Sigarda offing Brinsela. Was not to be.
>>48228186
Rem Karolus sounds like a fucking champion.
>>48228166
>Olivia is a fucking retard.
The last words she said to Sorin were "gonna party hard like the world is about to end", Sorin told her that the world, actually, was about to end, then she just laughed. Sure, she's a retard, a retard powerful enough to the point no vampire wants to dispute or can dispute her title and retard enough to not see the consequences of her actions
She doesn't care about werewolves, mutants, crazy angels, etc, she just wants to drink humans and parteey
>>48228158
I don't know about Adventurer's League, but Curse of Strahd is fabulous, and this is from somebody who has ran, or at least read, every iteration of the module.
>Tfw your bro vampire clan doesn't even get mentioned
I miss the Stromkirk, guys, they seemed legit
>>48228217
Rem Karolus is the hero that Innistrad deserves.
Innistrad will be fine, they literally can come up with whatever bullshit to save it, it's not the first time they used an asspull to save a setting.
>>48228278
That is the ugliest dog I've ever seen in my life.
>>48228099
>weretigers
DOOD
Wonder what else is beyond the continent of Innistrad.
>>48228303
Stability doesn't need to be pretty, anon.
>>48228303
It's indestructible because nobody will go near it.
>>48228287
Yeah, they've killed two Cthulhus and imprisoned another. Eldritch abominations that could dunk on the actual, literal gods from Theros. The Jacetice League neutralized them utterly in two blocks with friendship lasers. How the hell are you going to have dramatic tension after that? It's not even comicbook writing, it's Saturday Morning Cartoon writing.
>>48228099
>>48228321
Screw Kaladesh, I want Innistrad: Tiger Headed Opium Nightmare. Like, all the most fucked up, trippiest, most terrifying parts of Indian and Chinese mythology, filtered through gothic horror tropes. That sounds fucking amazing.It would also allow for more diversity and multiculturalism without it looking as forced
>>48228362
I thought they only burnt the physical manifestation of Ulamog and Kozilek, not actually killing them
And yeah, totally agree, they literally stopped the supposedly most powerful beings of mtg in literally 2 blocks, all this build up for fucking nothing
>>48228158
>It's total ass and it's pretty much turned the whole fanbase against Ravenloft in general.
Curse of Strahd is regarded by many to be the best 5e adventure out so far. Not sure who you've been talking to.
>>48228449
Just one of the many reasons why the two expansion block cycle was a mistake. It's completely counterintuitive to any gravitas the story might actually be capable of, because they end up rushing things.
2010-2016 RIP Eldrazi
Underused and underwhelming
>>48228449
>I thought they only burnt the physical manifestation of Ulamog and Kozilek, not actually killing them
I thought so too, but apparently Ula and Kozi are D-E-A-D dead, deader than Disco, deader than Bowie, no takebacks. Fucking Wizards.
>>48228321
>A rainforest of weretigers who hunt down anyone who explores the land
>A lone island where a mad stitcher combines humans and animals in an attempt to recreate werewolves
>An ancient civilization whose tombs hide great treasures and terrible curses
>A supposedly lost colony that has grown, but is beset on all sides by horrors and is slowly succumbing to paranoia and hunger
>Tribal cultures that utilize occult magic and ceremonies for terrible purposes
All the Victorian/Colonial horror tropes I could think of
>>48227655
Why are you surprised? MtG was based on DnD and both have planes and are owned by WotC.
>>48227882
Evil in D&D is defined as selfishness. Selfish is Black's largest trait.
>>48227781
It is sort of explicitly advertising for the artbook (which I wish someone would scan).
>James Wyatt: These booklets were the result of several conversations among different people as The Art of Magic: The Gathering—Zendikar went from earliest concept to printed book. Early on, Magic creative guru Jeremy Jarvis told me he had a secret agenda for that book, which was that it would be a campaign setting with no rules.
>>48227919
There's no explicit distances, and each Province is governed by different Mana.
>>48228118
No it isn't. Innistrad can deal with this shit because once the cosmic horror is trapped in the moon and only exerting subtle pressure on the world, it will just be another Tuesday. Sure, the Werewolves are more tentacular, but it's not like they didn't already have to deal with fucked up shit like walking cemeteries and shambling hordes of the undead. For fucks sake, the Vampires were hit hardest by Emrakul and Nahiri's wrath.
>>48228694
>Werewolves are more tentacular
And literally all angels except Sigarda
>>48228694
Emrakul being in the moon isn't the issue. It's the fact that the original Innistrad block had humans dying out after only a year without Avacyn, and that was with all of the other angels free and most of the demons locked away.
Now all the demons are out, all but one of the angels are dead, several massive towns have been outright destroyed by the Eldrazi, and the only upside is that a bunch of vampires died.
Unless there's a massive change Innistrad is rather doomed. Of course, there obviously will be a massive change if we return, but currently it is in shambles.
>>48228694
>There's no explicit distances
You can go from one to another in a couple of says on horseback if we believe the articles.
>>48228085
I feel like you're drastically underselling how well Innistrad can deal. Even with Dark Ascension, they were never as bad off as during New Phyrexia.
>>48228149
The things that would destroy Humanity were hit the hardest, and Sigarda seems to be twice the angel Avacyn was.
>>48228099
Weretigers? Where do you get that?
I feel like Innistrad can't be a huge plane. There'd be no way for the Helvault to contain all of its problems, or for Avacyn to get from place to place.
Then again, I can't imagine beings like Angels or Demons on their coffee breaks just talking with one another, but that's a thing that could probably happen.
>>48227923
>It's called Ravenloft. They should have just brought that back instead as a as a fully-fledged campaign world.
It is back. This article repeatedly talks about how this book is mostly concerned with converting Curse of Strahd into Innistrahd.
>>48228085
It wouldn't surprise me if Liliana sets herself up as Innistrad's protector now, if nothing else because she likes the Plane and it'd suit her ego to do so. If the Vampires or Werewolves start getting a bit uppity, she just drops a few hundred zombies on the problem.
>>48228803
>There'd be no way for the Helvault to contain all of its problems, or for Avacyn to get from place to place.
The Helvault is magical storage. It can be bigger on the inside or condense things down.
Avacyn has been show to be able to basically teleport wherever she needs to.
Innistrad is a lot bigger than just the area the blocks focus on.
>>48228362
>>48228449
>>48228555
>>48228518
>they literally stopped the supposedly most powerful beings of mtg
They're not.
And the build up was to a last ditch effort where they pulled off a save by ignoring the Elder Dragon. Why the fuck do you people not find that cool? "Abloobloo, the heroes won threw teamwork [and a clever plan]"
Am I the only one who doesn't start whining and pissing at the thought of the heroes winning through teamwork?
>>48228484
This I'll agree with.
>>48228679
MtG wasn't based on D&D, and they've repeatedly said they didn't want to "cross the streams". But I think that because MtG is now more popular than D&D, they're willing to do it.
>>48228746
False.
>>48228803
Dark Ascension was a mere poke compared to Innistrad now, in Dark Ascesion they still have a horde of Angels, a vampire clan that protected their humans, still a weakened Avacyn magic and more numbers than now.
Now is everybody vs few humans.
>>48228890
But it isn't them winning through teamwork. It was them winning through an asspull to kill two supposedly immortal creatures.
They could have just had their teamwork be trapping one of them, and that would have been enough, but no, gotta kill 2 to show off how strong they are. Of course, all that did was make everyone look weak and the Eldrazi seem like less of a big deal.
>>48228890
The fuck are you talking about? we don't hate that the heroes won, we hate that it literally took no effort and was dealt super fast
>False
I'm not even that guy but let me see, Gisela and Bruna's herons are monsters or dead. Sigarda's heron is dead. So only Sigarda remains, where's the false statement in here?
>it's an infinite loop captcha
Fuck this shit
>>48228771
This is wrong, though. You're making assumptions. I mean, hell, what do you think Innistrad was like before Avacyn? There was something like 10,000 years between Sorin becoming a Planeswalker and him creating Avacyn, and Innistrad was still alive all that time just fine.
>>48228859
I was talking more about *getting* things to the Helvault. I was unaware Avacyn could teleport.
>>48228828
She has. It's why she did this in the first place.
>>48228914
There are in all likelihood more humans than anyone else. And Arlinn and Liliana have a vested interest in keeping Innistrad from falling to shit. Sigarda's flight still exists as far as I'm aware.
>>48228914
Nigga, humans are shown fighting alongside zombies, vampires, werewolves, and spirits in EMN. The non-Eldrazi fighting them are either insane, corrupted, or dicks
>>48229010
Well, Olivia is Queen of vampires now, and I doubt any other vampire will defy her or her will of drink every meat bag in her sight
>>48228951
Do you actually know how the block ended, or are you just going off of everyone else? The "ass pull" was a last ditch effort that happened to work, and was based on paying attention to the enemy and trying to do something clever. It doesn't make anyone look weak, and it doesn't make the Eldrazi seem like less of a big deal, especially not on the tail end of Zendikar being utterly wrecked.
I get that you probably don't like the Gatewatch, but that doesn't make the ending any more or less of an asspull than the Eldrazi being able to be bound in the first place. Likewise, the connection between the Helvault and the Moon has been explained since the first Innistrad block, so "the moon can imprison something" isn't an asspull either, it's a pretty clever way of tying up loose ends (while of course still allowing Emrakul to potentially exert pressure across Innistrad and return some day when Bolas decides he needs a distraction).
>>48228985
Except that it didn't take no effort, and it wasn't super fast. In fact, it took considerable effort and wouldn't have even been possible on any other plane. It took a concerted effort between three Planeswalkers (and Gideon flailing his sural, I guess) to bind the Eldrazi to the material plane and then destroy them in a giant Channel Fireball.
Likewise, Sigarda is not the only uncorrupted angel. Even Subjugator Angel says "the remnants" of the corrupt angels formed the Flight of Nightmares.
>>48229059
No, but the fact that she's dramatically outnumbered will.
>>48228890
>Why the fuck do you people not find that cool?
Because the Origins 5 are unlikeable pieces of shit and the Eldrazi are pure wasted potential? I literally liked the Eldrazi more than I do the Gatewatch. Having the latter just smack the former's shit through an asspull stings.
>>48227771
Enlighten us on how to reconcile D&D's and M:TG's vastly different magic systems or go back to your cuckshed.
>>48227655
Magic needs its own RPG. No classes, just mana colors.
>>48228052
This. The moon belongs to America.
>>48229010
As proof
>Borrowed sorta-cycle shows a vampire using a Sigardian pendant and a human using a vampire artifact
>Collective brutality has a skaab and a vampire back to back, Blessed Alliance has a geist and human, and Savage Alliance has a vampire and werewolf
>mtg settings
>no way of playing planeswalkers
>or even character concepts from those settings
I want my stoneforge mystic, my skirsdag priest, my geistmancer, my alchemist, etc
>>48229277
Let me refrase it, they don't have to be full classes of course, subclass would be amazing, but I'd settle for some kit or similar
>inb4 "just refluff bro, I'm playing a paladin with full plate and greatsword as a naked monk with fists"
Fuck off
>>48229207
>The moon belongs to America.
Until China goes to the moon, kicks over your flag, and plants their own. Then what, Americuck?
>>48227655
>Shoehorning MTG's cosmology and morality into D&D's
This simply can't work well. The only way that you could ever do it justice is something without that crap or a wholly new system.
What
>>48229393
Said
Having casters who use an actual mana-color system or even ways to use the actual cards in a RPG would be rad
>>48229393
>Stoneforge mystic
EK
>Skirdag priest
Cleric
>Geistmancer
Wizard
>Alchemist
Wizard
Wew, so hard
>>48229403
>>even ways to use the actual cards in a RPG would be rad
>That Guy puts together a turn-one kill Mind over Matter infinite-mana infinite-turns deck that takes 15 minutes to draw nearly his entire deck and make you draw (Number of cards in your deck + 1) cards before you can do anything useful.
How would this even work fluffwise? And how would one stop it from working?
>>48229403
The main thing you would need to do for a mana system is asigm every spell a color, and use the spell points option. Then, let people declare what color each of their spellpoints is, so if you have 10 white spellpoints and 10 red ones, you can cast a few of each, or you could have 20 white and pour it all into that. Let people alter their mixture of colors a bit when they level and you're good.
Not perfectly accurate to MTG's mechanics, but it gets across color divisions.
>>48229397
Then war
>>48229397
Then we pat our fiscal slaves on the head for finally getting around to it after using stolen tech and taking 2 more generations.
Jacetice Society was a mistake
>Took countless planes and 3 oldwalkers, literally gods, to stop them
>4 neowalkers, fairly above average mages, easily kill them with zero plane casualties
Fuck.This.Shit
Bane would be dissapointed
>>48229081
You know, a lot of the crazier humans and monsters most turned into Eldrazi spawn so after Emrakul is gone and clean up time happens, the humans may have an easier time of it with calmer head prevailing.
>>48229007
Sigarda is actually the last of her flight.
>>48229621
Baneswalker when?
>>48229477
>Mana pool based on some stat and regenerates when resting or channeling the plane's magic. Certain planes regen certain mana types faster than others when channeling
>Spells must be learned, and are limited to a certain number of casts each day based on rarity (common can be cast 10 times a day, uncommon 6, rare 3, mythic 1)
>List of starting spells and equipment limited to plane of origin (based on blocks. Core sets are open game)
Spells that affect the library, graveyard, and exile, idk right now.
>>48229629
Emrakul in effect just selectively bred sane and resilient humans then?
>>48228158
Bro I hate 5e but Curse of Strahd is the best adventure module I've seen, not as linear as these other shitters they've throw out for 5e.
>>48229729
By culling the herd to a very small breeding population that'll get picked off by predators.
>all this ravenloft pandering
>hey guys here is innistrad, it's totally not ravenloft I swear
>meanwhile eldritch moon as well
fuck them, make ravnica a setting already
I would've been ecstatic about this 4 years ago.
Recent MtG story is shit.
>>48229746
Well most of the predators got culled too, so the remaining should be more cautious/selective Olivia not withstanding
>>48227655
Uh...the first new setting was Ravenloft, not Innistrad.
Zendikar is also the first MTG setting, not Innistrad...the article even says this. Have you had your coffee today, OP?
>>48229081
>Three planeswalkers
>effort
>>48229151
Wouldn't cuckhold be a better word?
>>48229776
No.
You see. I want a ravnica setting, but I want it RIGHT and goooood. So make another one for theros or some dumb shit. Take some time to work out a few more kinks
Then make a Glorious one that they put time and effort into, wonderful art, and I will PAY for that one.
And so would anyone else.
>>48227655
Where the hell do you download this shit?
Is it out yet?
I can't seem to find it in OP's link.
>>48230894
It's being released tomorrow on Magic's site.
>>48230554
You hate neowalkers, boo hoo.
>>48230894
>Plane Shift: Innistrad will be available for free tomorrow, July 12th. For more information head on over to Dragon Magazine.
Clearly you didn't look hard enough.
Is there a time frame for this? Is it set during the original Innistrad or later?
>>48228158
I've had the joy of playing with a cool AL DM, despite our regional organization for organized play being entirely disorganized, and flipped through parts of the books we have played through and it's a pretty fantastic adventure.
I wonder if Innistrad vampires are going to be as shitty, counterintuitive and poorly worded as Zendikar
>>48231403
I've done a few Pathfinder Society games, and from the sound of it comparatively the D&D Encounters stuff is/was completely pants on head incompetent.
>>48227772
No it didn't, it just said what the Races of Zendikar mostly were.
>>48227772
I bought the zendikar book that was released at the same time as the pdf and I love it.
MtG alignment/color wheel is retarded so I ignore it anyway.
>>48231961
What's the problem with Zendikar vampires?
>>48230910
So they're putting something "worthwhile" in their magazine.
>>48232403
Zendikar vampires are hunters and predators who doesn't get along with other races at all, +1 to Int +2 to Cha literally makes no sense on them
Bloodthirst feature is poorly worded to the point I never met two people who understand it in the same way, also (just for example 5eg a few months ago when it got released), even in the most generous ruling it's hard as fuck to make it useful
I'm already playing dnd in innistrad, and I have some questions about lore that keep nagging me.
>What is the creation myth for the plane? How do Innistradians think the world came to be?
>Is there a list of shit that avacyn and other angels actually did? Like a famous battle where the killed a bunch of undead?
>Have human factions ever been at war? Or has literally the entire setting always sworn allegiance to the church?
>Would people be okay with spells like raise dead or revivfy, or would they lump those in with necroalchemy because 'muh blessed sleep?
>>48227980
It IS a horror setting.....
But I hate plane walkers and their drama bullshit. So I'll just ignore those parts.
>>48227655
The biggest problem I had with plane shift Zendikar is how little it gave in certain aspects, like how there were no new backgrounds, which you might expect on a world as strange as Zendikar, no new class archetypes that fit more with the setting, and no real information on what deities are associated with which domains. It's clear that anyone who wants to actually run a campaign on Zendikar will have to put in a lot of foundation-building work themselves.
>>48232516
Well it is essentially >>48227693
>>made by MtG staff basically on their lunchbreaks
>>48232579
Yeah, I know,but it sort of makes you think you've got a new playground to mess around with, when it's actually just a few hand-me-down toys when you examine it more.
>>48232501
>>What is the creation myth for the plane? How do Innistradians think the world came to be?
The moon takes an important role on all Innistrad mythos, which is made of silver
Vampires were created when nobles used an angel and her blood as conduit for dark magic, these nobles were the granddady of Sorin and other members of the 4 families/clans
>>Is there a list of shit that avacyn and other angels actually did? Like a famous battle where the killed a bunch of undead?
There used to be 4 angels, RW, BW, GW and BW. BW had an agreement with demons and devils though she still was good, Avacyn, after being created didn't like this and killed her and her entire flight, then became the leader of Innistrad angels
>>Would people be okay with spells like raise dead or revivfy, or would they lump those in with necroalchemy because 'muh blessed sleep?
Necromancers are hunted down on every province, Nephalia is the only one that as long as you aren't too obvious and make too noise they leave you alone
I recommend you to read planeswalker guide to innistrad and some of the stories from both sets
>>48227960
So spelljammer then.
Where were you when Sorin and Innistrad as a whole became the most recent casualty of the feminism curse?
>batshit crazy Nahiri does whatever she wants - summons Emrakul, dooms the plane AND gets away with it
>Liliana is apparently "the last hope" and obviously all is forgiven because she has a magical change of heart
>Olivia Voldaren cucks Sorin saying "hurr imma lord of Innistrad now xd you stay in this rock while I go party"
>not to mention Tamiyo and her super overpowered scrolls, too powerful to even consider using them
Either I've started to unconsciously keep attention of these things or this writing is getting ridiculous
>>48232501
>>48232672
Oh sorry, here's fucking late so I apologize for not reading properly
If you belong to the church of Avacyn is possible they treat raise dead or revivify as a miracle, even if you don't belong to it it's also possible, imagine it like it was Europe during the dark ages, can be treated as a miracle, but if you have enemies they can persuade the church to treat it as a pact with the devil or witchcraft. It depends on their mood, chances are that if you belong to the church and you're a devoted member those spells would be treated like miracles and you like a saint.
>>48232808
Worst thing is that literally every girl (in my town for sure) sides with Nahiri, is just absurd. Since when being wronged by a man validates genocide and mass murder?
>>48232808
>batshit crazy Nahiri does whatever she wants - summons Emrakul, dooms the plane AND gets away with it
Nigger, Nahiri is a villain now. Did you complain when Ob Nixilis got away, or when Heliod got off scot-free, or Nicol Bolas on your average Tuesday?
>Liliana is apparently "the last hope" and obviously all is forgiven because she has a magical change of heart
She's still the same character she always was. She's serving her own interests by joining the Gatewatch.
>Olivia Voldaren cucks Sorin saying "hurr imma lord of Innistrad now xd you stay in this rock while I go party"
Olivia was BTFO instantly, only giving Nahiri an opening. Sorin deserved it for being a faggot and putting his revenge ahead of saving his plane.
>not to mention Tamiyo and her super overpowered scrolls, too powerful to even consider using them
Those aren't even her scrolls. She is safeguarding them.
>ywn see a Mirrodin setting
>ywn delve deep into the quicksilver oceans to exchange knowledge with the vedalken
>ywn hunt for scrap metal with the Krark Clan
>ywn engage in barbaric rites of passage with the Vulshok in the Oxidda mountain chain
>ywn explore the glorious cities of the Leonin and the Auriok
>ywn find an aimlessly wandering Myr, wondering about what hides behind those empty eyes
>ywn explore the twisted tangles of the Tel-Jilad, more copper than actual trees, in the company of druids and elves
>ywn venture into the Mephidross and meet your death at the hands of the aberrant Nim zombies and the outcast machines
why live
>>48232808
meanwhile, though, they killed avacyn after turning her evil and look at what happened to gisela and bruna
also shut up
>>48232965
>ywn go back to magic before mirroden ruined it
>>48232965
So do people on Mirrodin drink mercury from the quicksilver sea, or do they have to subsist on blood or something?
>>48232974
Killing Avacyn was just to make people realize Sorin is the evil dude in the setting
Same with retconning him as trapping Nahiri, man, I still remember the article in where he could find Nahiri and was to talk or to find Ugin, being a vampire seems that doesn't protect you from alzheimer
>>48232965
Don't do this to me, man.
>>48233000
Mirrodin is the most patrician block
Kamigawa and Ravnica is when it all went to shit
>>48233001
water does exist on mirrodin, but it's very scarce
also there is all sorts of molds and roots people can eat
>>48232632
>>48232516
My DM that ran this' brother is a turbo M:tG nerd with lore and the game itself, and he helped him a bit with it and it was a fun single-session game.
Wish I could try at it again because being the not-retarded Goblin Fighter with a crossbow and a tool for everything was fun.
>>48232722
Sort of, except you can't travel by boat. You need to be a special snowflake who can walk between planes
>>48228099
We haven't even seen all of Dominaria. And none of the recent planes seem to have as much variation as Dominaria had. They are one trick pony theme worlds.
>>48227655
Huh, guess we really are getting a third return to Innistrad, if it's popular enough to release one of these.
Which is dandy by me. Innistrad has a long story of sucking ass story-wise but there's always fun little gems that make it entertaining to keep up with the lore and other than Avacyn Restored all sets in the plane have been pretty baller. Even Avacyn Restored was pretty alright what with all the cool legends and constructed playable cards.
>>48233447
I'd take Avacyn Restored over Eldritch Moon any day, honestly. People bitched relentlessly about that set, but the SOM-INN and INN-RTR standards were the most fun I've ever had in a rotating format while EMN looks like some more fucking eldrazi bloat and not much else of interest.
>>48227832
Man, I always forget how much fun I had during the Lorwyn block.
That, Ravnica, Ice Age or Kamigawa(that was the block I got back into MTG withn so yeah I'm bias).
Would eventually letting your players become Planeswalkers be too much? I feel a lot of fun could be had bouncing players between these little supplements
>>48235382
Honestly, I'd say wait for more supplements before attempting it.
>>48235382
Planeswalkers are in a league of their own in terms of power. You're basically talking about giving them Plane Shift once they hit level 10+
>>48227655
Problem is I really can't see Innistrad working with 5e. It's not high fantasy enough.
>>48235530
Eh, 5e can swing it, I think. There are archmagi that train under the angels for yer wizards and clerics, it's just a low/no magic item setting. Rangers and Paladins do the trick pretty well for Cathars and Hunters, who would probably comprise the bulk of PCs.
>>48228049
I've been tempted to use Ravnica in place of Sigil if I ever run a Planescape-style game again.
>>48228085
What's fucking funny about this is, if anything happens in the game to change this situation, there will be endless bitching about the invincibility of the Jacetice League.
>>48230672
hue
>>48235530
That's when you dig into variant rules from the DMG.
>>48229151
Oh yeah, it's not as if the guys that write the official books just make stuff up. What they write is how it actually works. Right?
Btw the only magic system from MtG that we know about is the one that planeswalkers use. The one that wizard-type creatures use could just as well be represented by D&D magic.
>>48235874
Jacetice Society was a mistake
>>48235491
Eh.
Neowalkers are just talented mages with slider powers. They can get their assess beat by other non-planeswalker mages. The feats performed individually by the Jacetice League are not all that amazing.
>>48227655
I'm kindof pumped about this dnd MTG thing.
I don't care if the mechanics are balanced, as I don't play 5e anymore, but I've always wanted decent collections of MTG setting info. Particularly for Lorwyn and Ravnica, but I'll take setting info on basically any of the sets.
And having an official "x race" write-ups will make it helpful to convert stuff to other systems.
I wouldn't mind an official planeswalker and PW magic write-up, either.
Only Good things can come of this.
>>48229007
Sigarda is literally the last angel not part of the nightmare flight, why do fags who know literally NOTHING about the lore insist that they do every thread??
>>48239327
This, Jace and Liliana are afraid of fucking werewolf, Jace even fleed from a small pack (5-6)
There're some other examples in wotc archives of planeswalkers jobbing against rather common threats
>>48232965
Nope, you'll have none of that. Just
>muh phyrexians
>>48228321
A bit off the coast of Nephalia is a barrier of mist, behind which is the domain of Frantisek Markov, a distant cousin of Edgar Markov (the first vampire in Innistrad).
>Sorin is a Darklord
Not that this isn't cool, but Ravenloft already exists. Why does D&D need two Gothic Horror settings?
Anyone knows at which hour would the pdf be avaliable?
>>48240725
Treat it like a supplement for Ravenloft then.
>>48235382
The main problem is giving them the ability to GTFO whenever they want - but note that it takes a good amount of concentration and effort to planeswalk for basically anyone, so simply limiting it to 'not usable in combat' could work.
Make sure to give the players a reason to be together though, possibly BEFORE the game itself starts, so that they've got a reason to stick together.
And you'll want to know about at the very least all the planes that have had expansions set on them
>>48240875
Seriously, I hunger.
>>48241817
>simply limiting it to 'not usable in combat' could work
Or make it so that it's unpredictable in combat - you can GTFO, but you're gonna go somewhere fairly random and it might take a while before you can planeswalk again if you're injured. Hope you landed somewhere pleasant!
I've waited all god damn for this, hurry the fuck up with it, Wizards.
>>48227655
>linking to a gawker affiliate.
For shame.
Anyone got the image so we can minimize ad revenue?
>>48228890
>why the fuck do you people not find that cool?
Just compare what Urza had to do to deal with Phyrexia to what the gatewatch did to deal with creature who were hyped to be a threat on at least the same level. Urza and Gerrard also won through teamwork and a clever plan but they didn't did it in 2 fucking block.
>>48243369
>current year
>not using adblock
>>48239195
So was your dad not pulling out, but we've all come to accept it.
Whelp, it's out. And no new race for Innistrad vampires makes me absolutely sad and disgusted. Why did I expect anything nice.
>>48244354
>They got the Zendikar vampires all wrong
>They don't even try Innistrad ones
>>48244414
The absolute worst fucking part.
>Pic related
WOW, IT'S FUCKING NOTHING.
>>48244470
>Literally nothing on the different vampire clans
I really hate when they outright lie to our faces
>>48241817
>simply limiting it to 'not usable in combat'
Literally just give it a minute-long casting time
>>48241817
I was thinking of staying on Zendikar awhile, letting them build up their own little town/expedition guildhouse and then slowly leaking Eldrazi out until the whole WorldWake/Rise of the Edlrazi parts of the plot, then having their sparks ignite in some sort of hopeless battle
>>48232965
given how shit the innistrad book turned out to be, why don't we pool all the lore/flavour resources we have for mirrodin and just write our own stuff?
I bet /tg/ could shit out a better mirrodin D&D setting than wotc ever could make
I for one would fucking love to take a break from standard fantasy and somehow based mirrodin manages to feature magic+robots without going full steampunk/eberron
>>48248207
That could be pretty cool. Mirrodin was always a really nice plane with pretty cool aesthetics. It also has plenty of races that are all fairly distinct.
>Werewolves
>All evil
Woah, it's like they didn't even read the lore of Innistrad
Also 15 str? they can fucking lift carts, rip horses apart, cut thick as fuck trees with one claw swing and other stuff that you can't even beging to imagine with 15 str. And I'm talking of your average werewolf, not an Alpha
>>48247615
Just remember that there WERE no Eldrazi leaking out until after Worldwake - Jace, Chandra, and Sarkhan damaging the Eye of Ugin is what allowed the Eldrazi to have any presence at all, and that was limited to drones/spawn/etc sized things - the Eldrazi reaching limbs in and flailing about in an attempt to free themselves more fully.
Then along comes Nissa and Sorin's little party, the Eye gets destroyed utterly, and it turns out the Eldrazi didn't need to do that flailing because someone opened the lock for them.
>>48243560
They had to do it in two blocks because how old magic was handled just isn't how it's done now. It's expected to shift planes every set now and it's hard to have a continuous story like that. Back in the day they just in out on different parts of Dominaria but they can't do that now. OGW was kind of a cop out but imo EMN was handled very well, and it felt like the handling of Emrakul there was very natural and not bullshit.
there is ONE New-walker who is actually impressive (almost too impressive to be a normal human) and that's Elspeth motherfucking Tirel.
Gideon looks like a dweeb next to her, she took down legions of Phyrexians alone, she has fought shit that would take multiple members of the Jacetice league to take down.. solo.
and with no explanation yet, as to where her massive power comes from, but I have a suspicion that she was experimented on as a child by the Phyrexians.
>>48249445
Didn't Gideon punch Eldrazis like they were nothing? man, before the retcon he was pretty badass
>>48249496
yea, drones and such, he never fought a Sire or anything bigger than a medium sized drone, he did tank Ulamog but never got actually hit, just grazed and used is Invulnerability to sustain it.
Gideon has a power that is just as curious as Elspeth's strength, and I like to believe that Gideon is somehow Nyx related, no one else that I know of can simply become invulnerable for brief bits of time like he can.
by comparison ELspeth killed Polukranos solo, a being that is fairly equal to an ELdrazi Sire.
>>48249169
>Just remember that there WERE no Eldrazi leaking out until after Worldwake - Jace, Chandra, and Sarkhan damaging the Eye of Ugin is what allowed the Eldrazi to have any presence at all, and that was limited to drones/spawn/etc sized things - the Eldrazi reaching limbs in and flailing about in an attempt to free themselves more fully.
Well it was just gonna be some of the smaller guys until the Big 3 get cut loose but noted
I don't think my players know much about Zendikar which I'm hoping for
>>48249529
I think there's speculation that Heliod is his father
>>48249548
The seals on the Eldrazi were pretty damn thorough - they just had a single point of failure. Which needed to be fucked over TWICE to actually release them.
That said, you could easily extend the time frame between 'Eye gets fucked over' and 'Eye gets completely destroyed' if you want to have the Eldrazi emerge more graduallyJust remember - the smaller guys ARE the Big Three
>>48249445
How does Sarkhan fall on the power level?
>>48249705
a bit higher than Jace/chandra, at least, Chandra of 6 years go.
Elspeth is the highest of the new walkers, to a point that she's stronger currently (as before death) than most of the OG Walkers, sans Bolas.
>>48249721
I doubt she's stronger than Sorin, the guy was tanking Avacyn like she was nothing, and Avacyn was in the same level as Nahiri before the mending
>>48249848
Nahiri crushed Avacyn then, absolutely dominated her with just physical might.
Elspeth is on par or very, very slightly below Sorin.
she was so impressively strong and powerful in combat, people mistook her for a God stronger than the Gods of Theros, and proved this worth by rebuking Heliod twice and killing Xenagos.
>>48249848
Sorin is actually fairly mediocre as walkers go. Yes, in direct combat and single-target removal, he's great. Literally anything else? Eh. Dude doesn't even run boardwipes or sac shenanigans, apparently, despite being BW.
>>48249848
Sorin is hyper specialized, he is just really fast and sort of strong, he's a Duelist.
its the main reason he lost to Nahiri, who has powers far out of his range and she can do multiple things he cannot deal with.
Elspeth is a far more balanced fighter than Sorin, incredibly fast and strong (probably the physically strongest of all current walkers sans Bolas) and can channel White Mana better than any other walker.
>>48249926
He also lost because Nahiri cheated reality, supposedly she moved leylines creating blank spots to avoid being seen by eldrazi mutants, right? yet she still could cast from those blank spots when we know magic flows through leylines, fucking bullshit
>>48250020
its because Eldrazi only see mana, they don't see beings.
she simply erased their vision, she is the master of manipulating mana and leylines, a power that is far greater than "moving real fast and blood magic"
Sorin was always going to be overtaken in skill and power over Nahri, I mean, just look at what both of them can do on a mass scale.
Nahiri cand PERMANTLY ALTER a planes mana and what is done with it, she can cause massive destruction and manipulate massive ammounts of matter in reality defying ways.
in all Sorins time being alive, all he is capable of is extreme speed and moderate blood magic.
He never had the right to be as smug about his own superiority as he was, Nahiri was always gong to outstrip him and he should have known it, he tried to make it a Fisticuff fight, which is the only fight he can ever win, and she simply didn't allow it and tricked him.
in this Regard Sorin is a fighter/caster who is incredibly good at fighting a fair fight, Nahiri is incredibly good at circumventing fairness.
>>48249926
Liliana is far more powerful than Elspeth, and she said her and Jace together would stand no chance against Sorin.
Also, he pretty much powered through all Nahiri's tricks. She only got away because he went in for a bite rather than just stabbing her.
>>48250983
Made no fucking sense really, he moved so fast Nahiri couldn't see him, but he decided to only poke her instead of behead her? Like reading a comic of Flash
>>48250696
>its because Eldrazi only see mana, they don't see beings.
Yeah, I know, it's been said. But again, magic moves through leylines, she made blank spots (with no leylines on in) so once she moves in one Eldrazi can't see her...perfect, sure, but then you can't fucking cast in those spots because they don't have leylines, yet she still could cast because reasons
>>48248942
5e's scale is just too fucking small to handle MtG. It's hardly large enough to handle the shit already in 5e.
4e would have been fucking perfect for MtG inspired setting but that boat had sailed far, far away...
Sounds cool to me, I'm definitely grabbing it.
>>48255597
Speaking of grabbing it tho
Where can I grab it?
Just finished running a 5e campaign set in Innistrad, players seemed to like it
>>48255572
Yeah, 4e would have worked a damn sight better. Werewolf was a template anyone could take in that, for one.
>>48255670
http://d1bf78c87087c77d76ca-be4120a00702a7d33079a120750230c5.r45.cf1.rackcdn.com/Plane%20Shift%20Innistrad%20SFG_2.pdf
>>48227655
I'm amazed Wizards allowed this, Mtg is a huge success while D&D has been the red-headed stepchild for some time. I guess because it's a freebie fan splat they're okay with it? Also D&D is a terrible mechanical fit for mtg,, it really needs it's own system, maybe something like Legend of the Five Rings with the five colors of mana as the core attributes.
Are the Art of MtG books released digitally?
>>48227655
I.... I'm alright with this? How did Wotc not fuck this up?
>>48255572
>4e would have been fucking perfect for MtG inspired setting
4e is perfect for nothing other than pointlessly moving miniatures about and counting meaningless numbers that feel like nothing because they signify nothing.
>>48255995
>4e is perfect for nothing other than pointlessly moving miniatures about and counting meaningless numbers that feel like nothing because they signify nothing.
4e would've been perfect for a tactics-RPG computer game, because that's practically what it was.
>>48255971
But anon, they did fuck up
>>48255728
Eh, you could make a werewolf template for 5e similar to the revenant, what I mean is that 5e characters stay very grounded when compared to MtG stuff. Like, the best an average STR char the skill trained gets is going from +5 athletics to +10. That's not enough to cover the scale of difference that is between MtG characters I think.
4e characters topped out at demigod status, which is what oldwalkers (and some neowalkers) essentially are. It even fits the Jacetis league plot and the MtG naming conventions better.
>>48239366
I know it'll never happen, but god dammit I really want one for Kamigawa. That was such a flavorful plane, I think it would make for an awesome DND setting.
They still need more maps though; I'd love to see one of these with a little more effort put into it. Not to discourage the guys who make it, but I'd love to see one with maps and a few more details about some of the more complicated shit, maybe a subclass or two.
>>48247545
>>48242033
My problem with this is that Planeswalkers ditch mid-combat all the time.
In my mind, that's basically what scooping is. You see your opponent's army of Craterhoof Behemoth'd creatures charging, or a bunch of meteors about to rain down on you and everything you love, and you just say "fuck it, I'm out" and ditch the Plane you're fighting on entirely.
>>48256234
Oriental Adventures for 3rd edition is an amazing place to start, if I remember correctly they even have the nezumi, the kitsune and the soratami, as well as a fuckton of spirit monsters (including the oni)
>>48248207
>>48248367
I don't see a reason why we couldn't
>>48227655
>we basically played a lot of bloodborne and want to bring that to our mtg and dnd fans! you might not like it but others do!
>>48256081
Yes, it would be nice to have werewolf template in 5e. I think it would fit nicely on, let's say...page 207 in MM.
Oh wait....
>>48256234
It'll probably happen. I expect it'll be at the bottom of the list, but it'll happen eventually
>>48256489
Not him, but 5e werewolves are shit compared to innistrad ones
>>48256489
5e werewolves are not really the same as 4e werewolves. 5e werewolves are built as creatures, the 4e one was a theme and thus designed to be a valid choice for PCs from level 1.
>>48228561
Sounds like the Sultan to me.
>>48256937
>thus designed to be a valid choice for PCs from level 1.
That was a mistake.
>>48257039
Why is that?
>>48257061
Because monsters are for slaying, not for playing.
>>48257067
You know the Cleric class was literally invented to fuck over a Vampire PC, right?
>>48257080
>Gary Gygax allowed a vampire PC into his campaign, got sick of it and instead of talking it out with the player like a sensible adult would invented a class just to fuck it over
>>48256937
Well, werewolves ARE creatures. I don't know what do you mean by theme, because I stopped playing 4e after few sessions and confirming it's just as shitty as it seemed at the first glance.
Something like 3e SS racial "classes", where you call herself werewolf, but you start only with excessive body hair, grow up teeth and other crap as you level up? Sounds like bullshit, if I wanted to play a werewolf, I would want to be a werewolf right away, not getting its abilities over 10 or so levels because muh balance.
>>48248942
i doubt you could do that stuff even with 30 STR in 5e, the scaling is really low.
>>48257099
Gary Gygax was a fucking huge manchildren and a passive agressive that DM, you really are doubting he created a class just to mess with a player?
>>48257116
No, themes are an additional thing you get in addition to your class. You get most of it at level 1 and then an upgrade at level 5. Like being a wild psionic, an elemental culstist, an old veteran soldier or a werewolf.
You get basically all your abilities right at level 1 as a werewolf. You turn into a wolf and eat people. The only thing that takes a couple of levels to turn up is Hybrid Form.
>>48257142
>he actually thinks that the Tomb of Horrors, which Gygax made for tournaments, was representative of how he DMed in his own basement for his own friends
>>48257144
Well, in 5e, I can slap werewhatever template on any character too. I'll get all the abilities straight away and I'll be more powerful than normal character, but that's OK, I'm a monster, not just the same character with one or two extra gimmics.
I've GMed an evil 5e game (though it lasted only for 2 sessions due to RL stuff intervening) with vampire spawn character and homebrewed mini-lich... they started at level 3, they were overpowered compared to normal characters...but that's why they played vampire and lich in the first place.
>>48257237
More tought? yes, more powerful? nope, werewolves are weak as fuck, 15 Str is literally nothing, every martial will start with 16 at worse
>>48227923
> How big is it? Is it on a planet? Or literally just a flat plane? Is it turtles all the way down? What lies beyond the borders of the regions we have seen in the cards? It's gotta be bigger than that, right? If not, that makes it pretty much just demiplane, which makes it even more like Ravenloft.
Varies. Many of the recent settings are like demiplanes. Theros is actually flat.
Dominaria, the original setting, is a massive planet.
I've liked Magic for nearly as long as I've liked D&D, but I don't still play D&D. I would have thought this was the coolest shit back in the 3e days when I did.
>>48257237
You need to be allowed by a book to homebrew something overpowered?
>>48257142
>manchildren
Just stop posting. You're so full of of shit you can't even communicate properly.
>>48229277
>no playing as planeswalker
>Wizards can literally travel to different planes of existence
Ok>>48229393
>>48228746
You know angels respawn right?
Just like demons, if you kill angels more just take their place. Won't literally be the same ones, but who cares. As a reminder this is why the helvault was needed, because otherwise killing demons just made more demons.
>>48227693
>released as free PDFs
This is a complaint?
>>48255807
>maybe something like Legend of the Five Rings with the five colors of mana as the core attributes.
This seems to be th best way to do it. Thought about this myself for a while but you would have to work on/tweak the connected attributes a bit to get the flavor right. Basis would be this:
Fire = Red
Water = Blue
Earth = Green
Air = White
Void = Black
>>48232391
>MtG alignment/color wheel is retarded so I ignore it anyway.
MtG color wheel is 10 trillion maginitudes superior to D&D alignment system.
>>48229081
>It took a concerted effort between three Planeswalkers
You know walkers aren't especially powerful anymore, right? That's the same as saying it took three mages. Zendikar as a plane was full of badass adventures. The idea that the entire plane's population couldn't come up with "use a fireball" before 3 slightly above average mages came along is stupid as fuck.
>>48257716
>You know angels respawn right?
Did you even read the lore? Demons only respawn because evil is everywhere, while good is scarce as fuck in Innistrad and that's why angels don't respawn
>>48233024
>Ravnica is when it all went to shit
You take that back!
>>48233024
Mirrodin is awesome, I miss it.
Deepest Lore:
1) Ice Age
2) Mirrodin
3) Homelands
>>48257716
Bullshit, demons come back, angels don't, see the 4th flight
>>48248942
>Also 15 str?
There's at least one werewolve with power=2 and another with power=3. There will always be some gap between fluff and crunch.
>>48257896
>fluff and crunch
He isnt even talking about mechanics of the cards, he's mentioning the feats werewolves do in the lore, stuff that is well above Str 15
>>48257344
What?
Vampire Spawn template is in the Monster Manual. It's overpowered compared to normaln character.
Lich isn't a template, so I had to homebrew one. Because full-out lich would be too powerful, I created a weaker version (mini-lich), comparable to Vampire Spawn. It's still overpowered compared to a character without either of those templates.
>>48232722
Everway, actually
