>The strongest DnD/Pathfinder party you've ever been a part of has to go up against Guts in his Berserker Armor.
Guts is sure that you are all servants of Griffith, and it would take a huge fucking charisma roll to convince him otherwise.
You encounter one another in a ruined colosseum. Who wins?
C'mon, man. Just because you just found out about Berserk doesn't mean you have to make ten Berserk threads every day.
Especiaily one this stupid.
I love Berserk, but if you really need to talk about it, just go to /a/.
>>48224870
This is the first /tg/ thread I've made in a while. How many Berserk threads have there been?
>>48224935
Just about daily since the new anime started and the video game announcement and the new chapter came out.
>>48225085
Fug
Well this thread can just sink to the bottom
>>48224794
>4 against 1 encounter
>One sided roflstomp as opposed to an actually engaging and epic encounter
>>48225085
Not OP, but I can see why new chapter+ new anime + new videogame would increase the chances of Berserk threads.
>>48225172
Numbers alone mean little, the guy has stopped a 100 men company complete with minibosses. The problem is rather to quantify his saving throws against D&D spellcasters
>>48225085
>new chapter
>>48225192
Yeah, but he's fundamentally a high-level fighter with a template. Your average D&D party is rock-hard. With four people it isn't even a fair fight.
Like, if Guts is defined by the rules, he isn't an optimized Fighter. It's like how Drizzt (In the 3.5E Forgotten Realms book) was actually extremely weak and suboptimal as a character.
Standard battle plan, really. Fighter ties him up in combat, everyone else spams save or die, save or die, save or die.
>>48225197
RIGHT?!
IT CAME OUT WEEKS AGO DON'T GET MY HOPES UP
>>48224794
>Level 20 party of 4 with 3 cohorts, 2 (and a half) casters
We'd be fine
My character finished his last campaign as a fucking god, so yeah I don't know who this Guts guy is, but he's boned.
>>48225212
>if guts is defined by the rules
>guts
>defined by rules.
The guy has literally been fucking with fate and causality since birth, he doesn't play by rules except that he "could" potentially be killed if he exerts himself too much, but that's literally not plot possible.
Put him in berserk armor and not even the wizards are going to stop him because he'll literally be immune to mind affecting abilities.
Give him berserk armor and sheirke's "open mind" trick so Guts can fully apply his tactical prowess, and he'll still obliterate a DnD party not high enough level or equipped to deal with him.
I'm trying to avoid being weebish, but the character has been written with so much plot armor and killing potential it's hard to hard counter him.
>>48225240
Guts fought a stormcloud with a sword and won.... I'm gonna need a little more convincing than your party size.
>>48224794
Laugh as the level 16 party of Sun monks blasts him to death.
(Party wanted a common theme and picked light. Only the first Sun monk keept his original character while others switched over from light cleric, light pally and Undying light warlock.
Ever since they reached level 11 I stopped sending in the nooks and it devolved into cianxia showdowns.
>>48224794
My wizard by himself would stomp
Teleport a safe distance away, then long range magic till Guts dies
If Guts gets close, forcecage himself then teleport away again
Worst comes to worst, Guts puts a sword through my wizard's chest, and the wizard reforms at his phylactery on the astral plane, rinse and repeat till Guts loses
Honestly any epic level spellcaster would stomp
>>48224794
Well, my paladin killed him sans beserker armor, so pretty well I guess?
Whoever has higher initiative will win, if the wizard or druid or cleric or spell to power erudite wins the initiative roll it will go something like this:
Wizard: I cast maximized quickened time stop, followed by celerity, followed by gating in a balor, followed by maximized reach spell shivering touch (3d6 Dex damage). I then order the balor to cast either implosion (save or die) or to summon a buttload of demons.
Cleric: cast miracle to mimic the spell time stop, cast rightous might on self, cast bull's strength, cast bear's endurance, cast DMM quickened gate to summon solar, ask solar to use wish spell to kill guts, if guts somehow survives that, than tell the solar to help kick his ass.
D&D/Pathfinder Spellcasters OP as fuck
This is not even counting super-optimized characters like Pun-Pun with infinite everything, or the hulking hurler that can pick up and throw the earth. Even a barbarian 10/frenzied beserker 10 (which is not an optimized build at all) might be able kick his ass, since the frenzied beserker cannot die while raging
>>48225546
>implying Guts loses the initiative
but yeah, the if the spellcasters survive Guts first turn, they win
>>48225367
If he's not going to follow any sort of rules when everyone else has to, then what's the fucking point? It's just wanking over a plot device at that point and shrieking "NUH UH!" whenever someone points out something that could easily beat him.
>>48225265
Guts has supernatural aid from various angelic beings, wizards and fairies, and his eight foot long sword can wound supernatural foes because of all the magic it absorbed from the thousands of lesser demons and undead it killed.
How powerful of a god is your character?
>>48225546
>Cleric: cast miracle to mimic the spell time stop, cast rightous might on self, cast bull's strength, cast bear's endurance, cast DMM quickened gate to summon solar, ask solar to use wish spell to kill guts, if guts somehow survives that, than tell the solar to help kick his ass.
Literally doesn't work, can't duplicate 9th level spells with miracle. Similarly wizard can't maximise/quicken time stop (or rather, can do 1 with a rod but not both). Rest works though.
>>48225265
You're saying you're actually the falcon itself?
He'll get all his bonus passion dice against you, it's gonna hurt.
>>48224794
>implying my dorf wouldn't befriend him after they both try to kill each other and fail
Scarab of invuln should keep Guts from killing dorf, plot armor should keep dorf from killing Guts, beer should help afterwards
>>48225192
that's only enforces my point, either he shit on the PCs effortlessly or vice-versa. It's not an entertaining encounter in the least.
>>48225521
In older (I think) versions of DD the Phylactery must be on the same plane as the lich or else lose the connection to it for the time it is on a different plane. And that has not been contradicted since.
Just mentioning that.
>>48224794
>three sessions into first ever campaign
>party of four level twos
TPK, that's what you wanted to hear, right?
>>48225668
Astral Plane or no, killing a Lich just for him to show up again in a completely different location and then telport right back kind of makes this fight unwinable for Guts
Given that I'm in an AdEva game, and my character's Evangelion is basically a two hundred foot tall version of Guts in berserker armor, and has an S2 engine, I've got this one in a bag. I step on him, gg
>>48225615
No more wank then the posters jizzing themselves over which magic spells their character has or would use.
These threads are always wank threads.
>>48225657
>Dwarf character sharing good ale with Guts as they talk about the hard lives they have both led
I think Guts would actually get along with dwarves if they existed in Berserk.
>>48225710
>The strongest DnD/Pathfinder party you've ever been a part of
>>48225715
It's a completely different set of wank. One type is optimization wank over 3.5 and how much of a big dick cool guy their wizard is, and the other is just mary-sue wank over a character that can't die because his story isn't over yet.
>>48225755
>implying 3.5 pcs arent Mary sues who's story hasnt ended yet.
Anon....
>>48224794
Kind of a stupid question
Highest level DnD characters can be almost literally anything, if you consider 4e DnD that extends to epic destinies where the characters become literal gods, demon princes or primordials
Guts is pretty much equivalent to a really high level fighter/barbarian with some amazing gear, but spellcasters have always stomped martial users
Unless you're going by "Guts can ignore the rules of the game" in which case why even make the thread
>>48224794
Guts vs Drizzt, who wins?
>>48225831
The author.
Any level 20 wizard that's worth a damn doesnt need to roll for initiative. They can never be taken by surprise and go first by default, its a class feature.
So lets make it fair and assume they meet somewhere and Guts being the massive mary sue that he is, takes them by surprise instead of of the other way around where he gets scry and fried.
3.5 wiz is so absurdly strong so lets knock him down a peg and use the pathfinder incarnation with the pathfinder versions of the spells.
Theres two ways this can go: One is wizard casts wish and summons Guts' heart into his hand (this is legal and there is no saving throw), and he dies for the low low price of 25,000 gp. A pittance at this level seeing as the wizard may recoup the cost by selling all Guts' loot after the fight. Or, the second where the wizard toys with him a little before killing him.
>>48225831
Drizzt always wins.
He has two swords. He has a panther. He has magic. And he has Mary Sue-ness.
>>48226047
>(this is legal and there is no saving throw)
No it isn't. You wish *creatures* to be transported, not objects, so it flat doesn't work. Course 'wish them into the sun' is something that does work, but that offers a saving throw and spell resistance.
>>48224794
Paladin who has their Goddess on speed-dial.
Thief who literally stole the evil from the BBEG's heart.
Fighter who's mastered every weapon in existence.
Warlock that beat down their infernal patron and now treats them like a lacky.
Sorcerer who brought down one of the most ancient Dragons solo.
Things started to get pretty crazy when we passed level thirty.
Guts won't have much of a chance.
>>48225616
>Supernatural aid.
D&D wizards don't receive supernatural aid, they give it.
>Eight foot long sword
Wizard casts fly, Guts can not reach wizard.
>>48226142
Now that we've solved this argument, how about we debate whether or not your PCs could kill Elric of Melnibone? (They can't because Elric cut several gods to pieces with pure edginess and angst.)
>>48226047
Round 0 - Surprise round: Guts tries to take Wizard by surprise and fails to do so, With the wizards unbeatable initiative score means he goes second with no exceptions.
Wizard: Takes a look at Guts and knows every piece of relevant information, from the magical properties of his equipment, to his lack of casting ability. Wizard decides to job the fight instead of instantly killing him. Standard action: Disjunction, Swift action: Quickened Dimension door to teleport 1200 ft straight up.
Effect: The berserk armor is now just regular armor, the dragonslayer is now a +0 mwk greatsword. Fortunately his bombs, Knives and crossbow are mundane in nature and are not affected.
Guts: Being reduced to an angry cripple with crappy items, Guts spends a standard action (Surprise round so no full attacks) shooting at the wizard.
Effect: Range penalties ensure on a miss except for nat 20s. Can tank the lucky shot no prob.
Round 1:
Wizard: Swift action: Quickened Fickle winds, Move action: take out cl1 wand of magic missile that he found back when he was level 4, Standard action: Reach spell Shatter to destroy the cannon arm
Effect: The arm is no more, crossbow falls to the ground, the swirly air allows guts a generous view of wizard pants.
Guts: move action: pick up his crossbow which was conveniently left intact, standard action to shoot at the Wizard while looking very angry.
Effect: Bolts are deflected by the fickle winds with no ifs, buts or maybes.
Round 2:
Wizard: Free action: Chuckles to himself, Swift action: Quickened Dimension door to teleport 80 ft above Guts, Standard action to activate the wand and hit guts for 1d4+1 damage.
Effect: Guts takes 1d4+1 damage because there is no save nor can it be dodged.
Guts: Full round action: Full attacks with his crossbow, no effect.
Round N: Wizard keeps tormenting guts with 1d4+1 damage and switches to another wand when he uses up the 50 charges, guts eventually dies after a slow and humiliating battle.
>>48226133
Actually it is, Tar-Baphon used wish in that manner to kill Aroden's fuccboi.
http://www.archivesofnethys.com/MythicMonsterDisplay.aspx?ItemName=The%20Whispering%20Tyrant
>>48226265
Yes, but it's not one of the set abilities so you give the DM power to go 'lol no that doesn't work', and it's not a no-save ability in either case. So no, it's not a auto-working legal no-save ability by any means.
>>48226245
If nobody's surprised there's no surprise round, disjunction offers a will save and Guts isn't restricted to just using a crossbow. Beserker Armor is probably artifact tier, so round 0 wizard disjoins it and either fails or succeeds and loses all his spellcasting forever.
This is literally just 'lol wizard powers saves and tactics don't exist woo!'
>>48226347
>Fighters
>Passing a will save
>Wizards
>Failing a will save
Haha
>angry crab man who is almost as angry as Guts
>sppoky skeleton paladin
>asshole with a crossbow riding a triceratops
>half golem ancient hero
Everyone would probably just stand back and watch as Guts and the angry crab have a great big fight, although the spectators would leave after a few hours.
>>48226384
>Someone poked holes in the 'lol wizards win forever' greentext, better respond with smug greentext nonarguments!
Anime stuff is better modelled by Tome of Battle anyway. Warblade/barbarian, if anything.
>Flies up and casts fickle winds + summon 1d4+2 lantern archons
>Guts cant dodge the ranged touch attacks
>Wizard summons more lantern archons
>Guts cant kill them fast enough to stop the pew pew funny lasers
>Guts ded
>"I-I'll go and play my Guts build in dark souls instead"
>>48226434
Its true though, a wizard will probably need to roll a nat 1 to fail a piddly DC 20 will save at level 20 which he can reroll thanks to any number of available rerolls in the game, while a fighter regardless of archetype or splat will need to roll way above average to pass the will save.
Lets not forget that Guts almost always fails will saves and usually needs to get bailed out by Shierke. At best the, the dwarven armor offers a bonus against spells with the mind-affecting which the Disjuction is not.
>>48226458
>Wind wall doesn't work against oversized throwing weapons
>Wizard gets bouldered in the face halfway through casting a summon spell
Alternatively:
>Fickle winds is a cylinder that only covers the target's square
>Wizard gets crossbow bolted in the nuts from below
>>48224794
Who?
>>48226538
Ficklewinds having a vulnerable point is RAI, RAW it deflects everything.
Guts does not have rock throwing unless he's some sort of giant, even if he did 1d8 damage per round that will probably miss thanks to range penalties is still quite pitiful.
Wizard still wins, at best he decides to take it a little more seriously and actually cast his own magic missiles at CL20.
>>48225595
>Someone actually believes Punpun to be a feasible build
>>48226538
Acadamae graduate means wizards can summon as a standard action.
And no, there is no such thing as a wizard that doesnt take that feat.
>>48226520
>>48226384
>fighters have +10 will save at level 20
I know the meme is strong but come the fuck on.
You can get +15 on a level 10 character with minimal investment.
Whole thread reminds me of this
https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/what-cant-an-optimized-d-d-3-5-wizard-beat.194579/page-8
>>48226650
A fighter can expend every resource short of hiring another wizard to buff him (which proves wizards win) and still not have a high enough will save to save against 9th level spells on average.
Hell, even paladins and their meme saves get fucked over by wizards come level 20.
>>48226704
I'm not used to 3.5/PF, what's the spellcasting DC for level 9 spells?
>Wizard casts maze
>Gust with his retarded intelligence score fails to save
>Wizard is long gone before he passes the int check to get out
Wizards win again!
>>48226726
Go back to 5e where you belong babby
>>48226726
Its at least a DC 35 will save if the wizard couldnt be bothered to give a fuck about it.
>Guts runs into a witch
>Witch casts slumber hex
>Guts falls asleep and gets coup de graced
>Witch wins fight with 0 resources spent
>>48225600
Emergency Force Sphere. Guts isn't a real threat in 3.pf.
Codzilla beats him in his own game
PF wizard Time stop, move earth, rinse and repeat, Guts suffocates.
3.5 Wizard casts ironguard and resist fire, he can no longer be harmed by anything guts can do.
Dickbag 3.5 Wizard asks griffith for a solid and griffith obliges. Wizard casts Love's pain over and over on griffith and guts dies with no save.
Dickbag 3.5 Wizard casts necrotic cyst and necrotic termination on guts and destroys his very soul
Even the pathetic 3.5 sorcerer shits on him via auto crit twin empowered maximized intensified orb of force that autocrits.
>>48224794
Guts wouldn't even stand a chance
Wizards can stop time, what the fuck can Griffith do against that?
>>48226840
http://dokdorspace.com/dndtools/spells/book-of-vile-darkness--37/loves-pain--184/index.html
Meatlog the giant baboon bard makes the diplomacy check and fucks Guts in the ass.
Really, Guts is big fish in a small pond and will get his ass handed to him by a similarly experienced adventurer.
>>48225411
That was essentially a lightning elemental. Have you seen the CR for those things?
The fact that he had to struggle to beat one just comes to show the poor quality of his skill.
>>48225722
His armor was made by dwarves you retarded fuck.
I know you just got into the show after watching two episodes of the new anime but come the fuck on.
>>48226178
Guts' prosthetic arm has a built-in high caliber flintlock pistol, he shoots your squishy wizard out of the sky and blasts off a limb or two in the process.
>>48226953
Guns are shit in D&D
>>48226936
>Emperor Ganishka
>mere lightning elemental
Sure bub. I bet with that logic you think Griffith/Femto is a lvl 5 antipaladin.
>>48226974
A lightning elemental is stronger than the emperor famalam.
>He doesnt know the different types of elementals
>>48226953
Pff, the damage is horrible, guns are shit in d20.
>>48225265
Read Berserk, than you will know who that guy is.
And Guts my be no god, but he fought foes who are goodlike multipletimes...
>>48224794
Well, never played any kind of pnpRPG, but seriously, how should I defeat Guts?
Only possibly chance to survive is to run.
And even then, everyone would be doomed...
Lol, The whole not!india invasion is a tier 2 adventure at best.
A gang of Level 8~10 murderhobos can resolve that shit in a couple of sessions
I mean, do you even play traditional games?
Judging by how the thread is going
>OP doesnt know berserk
>OP doesnt know d20
>Still thinks he can make any form of argument
Literally no point to this thread
>>48227051
There are multiple characters in fiction that can fight/kill him without any effort, and even by D&D standards he isn't the bigger fish, because he's just a fucking martial.
Anime is shit
Even a sohei monk would have him pinned and tiedupdelitized out in a couple of rounds.
>>48227082
Do you read/watched Berserk?
>>48227018
>thinks an epic level demigod character isn't stronger than a lightning elemental.
Bruh
>>48227099
this
>>48227145
He's only "epic" in his own setting. Its literally just some guy who has some monsters casting a few lousy spells (lesser astral projection and elemental body being a few of them).
Any level 10 PC can easily invade a kingdom of that caliber.
Again, do you actually play d20 games?
>>48226732
But I don't play 5e, it's my least favorite system.
>>48226769
I mean, what DC does the caster have to reach to cast the spell in the first place? I assume that the spell doesn't just work, he has to roll to cast it?
>>48227142
Yes.
Show me where any spellcaster in Berserk gets near a high level wizard in D&D and we can talk.
Show me where clerics can ress other people without bating an eye, create earthquakes, hurricanes, tidal waves, summom hordes of celestials.
>>48227182
Retard, there is nothing that needs to be rolled to cast a fucking spell.
>>48224870
All anime discussions should be in /a/. I don't understand why people insist on bringing waifus and waradu or whatever the fuck into /tg/.
>>48227182
You've obviously never played DnD at all, you roll to hit(if you even need to do that at all) or the one being casted at needs to make a DC whatever save
>>48227182
Do you play this game, your faggot? Get out of the discussion and go join the autists of /a/ if you don't know what are you talkting about.
>>48227204
What? Then why does a martial have to roll to attack?
>>48227218
They use the word excuse that /tg/ is about everything just to shitpost
>>48227233
The fact that martials need to roll the dice before they can even begin affecting someone is part of what makes them so fucking weak.
>>48226128
>Drizzt dives off a cliff to do a dynamic kill against Guts.
>He lands on the Dragonslayer (which guts is shouldering at the time) and bisects himself.
>Guts turns around, sees twitching halves of bisected elf, shrugs and continues on his journey to turn Griffith into an unrecognizable pile of organs.
>>48227249
Wouldn't it make sense for magicians to need to roll to cast a spell then?
>>48227142
Wizards can literally stop time, change the fabric of reality around them, turn invisible, fly around on skeletal dragons, fly normally, teleport, open doors to entire different planes of existence and all kinds of other stupid shit.
Guts can swing a sword really good.
Who the fuck do you think is going to win?
>>48226225
>pure edginess and angst.
At which point he probably tripped over and collapsed into a Vorpal Sphere of Annihilation
>It's a "/tg/ thinks all wizards are batman and proves why even PFS doesn't want to play with them" thread
Pic related, a fa/tg/uy's roll20 game.
My witch dreamwever uses eternal slumber on him then use this sow thoughts and modify memory for month or two now she got a slave thet thinks she he's god and remember nothing is. Previous life
>>48224794
Pathfinder/dnd groups never made it far, my shadowrun group, however, could be able to work. Excluding the multimillionaire rigger who kinda broke the game and the mage who's pretty much wearing a dress made of relics we still have alcoholic Jestream Sam and my autism-chan elf who damn near ended up as a cyber zombie. Both street sams who eventually realized they could just treat terrain like a space marine does.
So any non magical PC that can best guts?
>>48227312
Thog the level 2 orc barbarian will probably beat the shit out of him.
>>48227233
Welcome to Dungeons and Wizards
>>48226953
Squishy wizard has already buffed himself up to ridiculous levels with stoneskin and stuff.
Even if Guts manages to hit him, despite all the magical wards, the wizard has hit points to spare and damage resistance.
>>48227265
You dont roll to swing a sword. You roll if your attack connects to your target. Sameway mage casts his spell without rolling but then the spell tells you what it does. If its firebolt wich acts like a bow and arrow you roll if it hits. But if spell like fireball tells your enemy to make a dodge you only roll damage and your opponent rolls if he is able to dodge or not.
>>48227459
What if martials didn't have to roll when they attacked, and the target made a save or died.
>>48227265
Spells have finite uses, you only get a certain number per day. You can swing a sword over and over without having to worry.
Also some spells you need to roll for. Touch spells work exactly like swinging a sword, and most other spells allow for the enemy to resist it.
>>48227495
Why do casters get a certain number of spells per day, and the whole spell slots thing? That seems completely arbitrary and setting-dependant, wouldn't a mana system work better?
>>48227278
No, anon, everyone on /tg/ totally ran these OP super-wizards from the get-go in every campaign just for these occasions and was never told no "no" or barred from play for various reasons (hygienic, personality, general convenience, the fact no one wants to be friends with someone from /tg/, and this isn't even going over the actual characters (who in reality probably are just fetish fuel because /tg/ is full of pathetic neckbeards who only think with their dicks and whatever lobe of the brain processes anger)), and because anime is vaguely more relevant than a generally dead form of entertainment sans Magic the Gathering (and even then that's not particularly huge, it's just not absolutely dead like say, Warhammer) they have to generally bitch about and hate it similarly to Dungeons and Dragons/Pathfinder. Which is funny, because all they can rely on for these petty power level arguments is D&D/Pathfinder, because they're all hypocrites.
I can't wait for someone to say I'm mad or ignore my reply entirely or somehow say I'm wrong and further prove me right.
This is increasingly funny because there's a fucking thread up on /tg/ right now complaining "Why does everyone hate us ;_;"
>>48223445
>>48227483
I dont know. Thats not how d&d works.
>>48227312
No PCs are non-magical, because a rogue's evasion and anyone's ridiculously high hit points are explained as being partially due to inherent magic, kind of like a dragon's breath weapon.
Everyone in D&D is partially magical.
>>48227513
Mana systems were invented later. Go back to vidyagaems.
>>48227513
The spells in d&d are to powerful.
Why do magicians get to access every spell in the book? Wouldn't it make more sense and be more fair if they focused on a certain type of magic, like elemental spells, illusions, ect.
>>48227565
Maybe read the rule books or use google. Wizards cant cast druid spells or cleric spells etc.
Why are you talking shit? You clearly dont have eny clue how this shit works.
5/5 bait made me mad.
>>48227565
>Wizards
>Fair
>>48227591
Yeah I'm just baiting. I'm constantly butthurt because my favorite system has no players.
>>48225546
Also i specifically says in the balor description that the first thing they do when summoned is kill the person that summoned them... and then you have guts fighting a shit ton of demons and i have to give him the edge there.
>>48225546
>followed by gating in a balor
You then die, because Balors kill whoever summon them.
And don't get me started on how wrong everything is with your Cleric faggotry.
>>48224794
Since DnD is all about caster supremacy, I am not going to answer that. But I did exactly that thing in GURPS, and...
>Guts died from massive nuclear strike from space battleshit
Yeah, that wasn't so cool.
>>48227619
A balor cannot hope to compete against any of those level 20 classes and has no choice but to do their bidding.
>>48226788
I think the one thing we need to look at is, the effect of the armor guts is wearing. It's artifact grade and likely boosts His will saves, so he likely has a will save around 35 (10 base, iron will, minimal wis bonus, and armor bonus). Another thing is if the Cannon came from 3.5 dnd iron kingdoms, 120 is first range band.
>>48227619
iirc Protection from Evil renders whoever has it almost completely immune to evil outsiders (they can't touch you, iirc their weapons can't touch you, you're immune to most/all of their spells, etc), so if Guts is the only person around who doesn't have that the Balor would pretty much have to go after him.
Plus you could potentially convince it to help you out, either through threats or promising it a reward or what have you.
Or you could gate in something more friendly, like a high-CR angel.
I don't know much about Berserk but I've actually fought Guts as a part of an evil campaign. Long story short, we were playing an online campaign as the BBEGs to the GM's RL party, and when the good party stormed one of our strongholds for the first time, it appeared that their Fighter was pretty much Guts, down to the arm cannon. We managed to repel the attack with traps, raised undead and a peasant militia with longbows, but I dunno how it'd end if we were fighting on even ground.
>>48225192
Yes but in dnd/pf that doesnt work. The settings are sort of incompatable 1 vs 100 doesnt work in those systems.
>>48227875
I think the argument still stands that we need to determine his saves and what has auto saves.
>>48224794
Guts goes down very very easily, each member of my party has seen more shit on their pinky finger than this emo scrub. One of our cohorts can destroy him.
We keep him alive to see if he has any valuable information on the outer gods, break down his items for usable components, and then replace his mind so he can live out the rest of his life as a farmer somewhere. Then we keep looking around in the ruined colosseum, we obviously went here for something way more important if the party is gathered like this.
>>48226620
>And no, there is no such thing as a wizard that doesnt take that feat.
Like literally every wizard I've seen, including two abrupt jaunting grey elf necropolitan conjurers? Which book's that one even from?
>>48226605
It's not RAI. The thing's explicitly stated to be a cylinder of winds that covers the person's square. Guts also has a cannon arm, which works even if you ignore the text of the spell that doesn't allow for universal protection.
>>48226769
19 base+10 int is 29, not 30. Where was the rest from again?
>>48226788
Just a hemisphere so doesn't work if you're flying, and you can't take immediates while flatfooted.
>>48224794
My character would probably die. Not because guts is particularly deadly. He is, but I have yet to have an adventure in DnD or Pathfinder that hasn't managed to kill my character at least once.
>>48227619
Not quite, Gate gives you control if only for one combat, longer if you actually bargain.
>>48227801
But that's even more wrong. Protection From Evil only works against Summoned evil outsiders, not any other kind of creature up to and including Called evil outsiders.
>>48228096
Spell focus, improved spell focus, and spell perfection give another 4. If they were a witch you can get this 2 higher for patron spells with witch blade. With certain bloodlines you can get it 1-2 higher. An arcanist can get it 2 higher.
Also you can get int higher than 30 at high levels of optimization. For instance:
18 (base) + 4 (variant tiefling) + 6 (belt) + 5 (levels) + 5 (wishes) + 3 (aging) + 3 (that one book) + 6 (simulacrum of that one demon prince) = 50 int
For a spell with spell perfection, as a witch using their witch blade, with one level on sorcerer, AND that trait that gives you +1 DC once a day you can reach a DC 48 spell.
However at equally high optimization saving throws EASILY beat that DC even for martials.
Any of you fucks realize that %90 of D&D games happen between levels 1-9?
>>48228293
We were asked for our strongest party, not an average party.
>>48227218
>>48224870
go back to /a/, you two.
We've got /tg/ discussions to have without you guys complaining.
>>48228263
So what you're saying is that DC 33 is the standard independent of class, at least for a single spell on the entire spell list which the caster specialises on. More like 30 for the average 9th level spell.
Also making a simalacrum of a demon prince seems like a good way to get yourself killed.
>>48228096
>Just a hemisphere so doesn't work if you're flying
In any point of the text says that you MUST create the hemisphere upwards. But there is so much options to block ranged non-magical attacks that I will not bother to list.
>you can't take immediates while flatfooted
>what is Foresight
>what is Defensive Strategist
>>48228096
>19 base+10 int is 29, not 30. Where was the rest from again?
Its 19+14 (20+5 Advancement +5 inherent + 6 headband +2 Profane from int bonus) before feats followed by another +2 from spell focus. It can be raised even higher if the wizard wanted to put more effort into it.
>Just a hemisphere so doesn't work if you're flying, and you can't take immediates while flatfooted.
Emergency force sphere can also be angled downwards, it functions like wall of force so it doesnt need to be anchored to anything and the rule you are referring to is for the purposes of keeping it watertight.
Defensive strategist lets you take immediate actions even when taken by surprise and diviners dont roll for Initiative and are automatically first during initiative checks.
>>48228070
>It's not RAI. The thing's explicitly stated to be a cylinder of winds that covers the person's square. Guts also has a cannon arm, which works even if you ignore the text of the spell that doesn't allow for universal protection.
Nothing in the spell descriptor says that the bottom can be targeted, its cylinder shaped but it deflects any and all medium and below incoming projectiles and even then, the wizard is at best going to be attacked once by a shitty crossbow every round, hell even if you had the DM fiat the spell the wizard can stay grounded and move faster than guts with his 60 speed and ability to create difficult terrain to deter charges with the +0 mwk greatsword.
The cannon arm is just as shit as the crossbow and isnt even a threat if the wizard decides to play nice and not shatter/disarm it. It will deal shit damage, take a round to reload and will still suffer a miss chance from the fickle winds due to it being medium sized.
>>48224794
>last character I played was an earth controlling giant monster with absurd strength
>vs guts
Fuck.
Fuuuuck.
I am not sure which wins, assume they're fighting.
Though, it's more of a gamera style giant monster, being protector of children and all.
So it might just fuck off mid battle to go, I don't know, take a cat out of a tree.
>>48228352
The demon prince literally has no way of knowing you made one, because simulacrum is a dumb spell. You just have to know the prince exists. Right after you're done with the simulacrum it gets stowed as a stone block in a secure anti magic demiplane. High optimization is made of bullshit like that. The prince can't even find out after because constant mind blank.
>>48228352
I doubt you'd need to push past 33 for a weak little shit like guts. And a lvl 20 optimized wizard can make any entry in the bestiary his bitchboy.
>>48227801
prot evil is not SR proof and while they cant touch you they can still hit you with weapons, balors use weapons. But now looking at it gate would let you control it anyway.
>>48228352
Still is almost a auto-fail to any class with low Will progression thanks to Persistent Spell.
And even with a great Will save there is so much spells that WILL fuck you without a save like Maze...
>>48228367
>what is Foresight
Not on all day unless you want to blow all your slots. Also a 9th level spell.
>what is Defensive Strategist
Not a given on every character. Unless every wizard you play is a devout worshipper of a dwarven god, in which case fuck me.
>>48228383
>Nothing in the spell descriptor...
See above. Also gee, more stuff that isn't in the spell description and more assuming every spell auto-succeeds. Even if Guts fails every single save against Disjunction it's lasting for 20 rounds, so he's not getting plinked to death in that time.
>>48228452
Still an auto-fail to any class with a low will progression that desperately wants to die, yes. +20 with the ability to reroll is easy by the level 20 everyone keeps harping on about.
The berserk armor is basically golem armor from the epic level handbook, so he'd probably wreck shit.
>>48225546
Gating a balor without preparation is a really bad idea since they tend to kill whoever summons them. Maximizing/quickening time stop requires a rod so I think you can only do one of those metamagics
Wish/Miracle doesn't work for duplicating 9th level spells, you wanted divine power (not bull's strength), and if you're getting into divine meta-magic this whole thing is really inefficient
>>48227801
Protection from evil isn't that powerful. What it does is prevents things from mind fucking you to a degree (aside from fear), and gives a slight defensive bonus against evil stuff. The closest guideline for not getting fucked over by your summon is the planar ally spell, but that assumes they're willing to talk. Summoning shit like Balors and Solars is a pretty bad idea unless you already knew one that owed you a favor
>>48228478
Yes, and I also talked about no-save shit that will fuck you.
>>48228478
The thing is. I can build fighters who easily pass it. Can Guts? No.
>>48228505
You have? All I saw was Maze, the no-save shit that temporarily inconveniences someone.
>>48228519
>The thing is. I can build fighters who easily pass it. Can Guts? No.
Probably not, I doubt he plays dnd. But can he manage it himself if we're modelling him as a high-end character? Sure he can.
>>48228455
>"Guts might be able to survive a wizard playing with him with a CL1 wand he sure is a great hero!"
lol, its not as if the wizard cant recast Disjunction. And really, if the wizard wanted to take it a little more seriously, do you think your little self can do anything about the wizard casting shatter on every piece of equipment until he's left with a twig for a weapon?
>"Waah wahh you took a trait that cant make the wizard vulnerable to surprise"
You asked for "best" and even then what makes you think some fag clunking around in heavy armor can beat the wizards perception check for taking him by surprise?
You think guts can walk into the wizards demiplane and catch him in his sleep?
>>48228548
The thing is Guts is not a level 20 character. He can't perform the right tasks or has the right gear. Modeling Guts in D&D puts him at somewhere in the level 10-12 range.
>>48228455
>Not on all day unless you want to blow all your slots.
What is Metamagical Rod of Extend Spell.
What is Pearl of Power.
You really don't play this shit, do you?
>so he's not getting plinked to death in that time.
Ok, you are clinically retard.
>>48228519
Guts always struck me as having high Will. How do you figure he wouldn't?
>>48228563
I doubt he has enough BAB for more than one iterative attack.
>>48228564
>pearls of power 9 are prohibitedly expensive even for crafters
>>48228572
High will and will higher than most deities are different.
>>48228572
>High will
>Fails will save not to rape casca
>Fails will save not to get mind fucked by monsters
>Fails will save not to attack his own comrades
He literally needs help recovering from mind affecting shit almost every single time.
>>48227182
It's 3.5.
Casters do not need to roll to kill you, you need to roll to not die.
>>48228559
>lol, its not as if the wizard cant recast Disjunction. And really, if the wizard wanted to take it a little more seriously, do you think your little self can do anything about the wizard casting shatter on every piece of equipment until he's left with a twig for a weapon?
Yes, because you're targetting a high level Warblade/barbarian's fort save.
>"Waah wahh you took a trait that cant make the wizard vulnerable to surprise"
Nice, so you're ignoring the facts that disagree with you?
>"Oh shit, my wizard powerwank fantasy might be slightly inaccurate! Better internet tough guy harder!"
>>48228564
>You really don't play this shit, do you?
Course I do. For example, I know that ninth level pearls of power cost an absolutely ridiculous amount of gold (Seriously, ~10 of those is your entire WBL) so you're not buying any large amount of them unless you hate the idea of owning anything other than pearls. Extend metamagic rods work, but they're still only giving you foresight for what, 6 hours a cast out of your 24 hour day?
>What is Metamagical Rod of Extend Spell.
>Metamagical rod
You really don't read this shit, do you?
>>48227180
If we're drawing upon 3.5 to literally any other setting exempt maybe Exalted, we can fully dismiss any argument hence forth because no setting has characters with as much bullshit potential as 3.5/exalted characters.
>>48228564
That makes sensemble he probably has fast healing 10 or more from feats. Plus the Demon Brand feat opening up a bunch of feats from fiendish codex was it.
>>48228584
Well he definitely would have great cleave, an exotic weapon proficiency or two, he often makes multiple attacks in small amounts of time which would either be whirlwind attack or 15+ BAB. His HP would also indicate he's pretty high level, but there's multiple ways to get a lot of that
He has a giant sword that's apparently so soaked in dead demons that it's a little magic, a crossbow and fake arm that are basically magic, whatever the hell the berserk armor is (but I'd put it at artifact tier), and though he'd probably never use it a beilit which is basically a cursed 1-use wish/miracle item
>>48224794
Jokes on him, the strongest one is me and i'm a 7 Fighter / 9 Hellknight Commander kitted out with loads of +3 items and wondrous items. Nigga can't even touch me with his pussy ass Fighter/Barbarian/Ranger mess.
>>48227519
Gee, you really called that.
>>48225615
welcome to /tg/
>>48228293
What >>48228310 said
My current party of level 6-7 characters wouldn't stand a fucking chance against Guts in Berserker armor
>>48225831
Depends on who is writing. Guts can be defeated without dying though, and has been a few times, so I'd say even if Miura is writing Drizz't still stands SOME chance.
>>48228612
I don't think the rape Caska, or kill allies were will save allowed events, if anything it was passed will save, didn’t kill her. I think that is a byproduct of his over feat boosted Rage, so that if anything was alive in a radius he had to attack till rage ended.
I think we need to figure out his feats and flaws
>>48227312
Unchained scout Rouge move 30ft shot on the run cut guts move speed in half rinse and repeat
>>48228612
>>Fails will save not to rape casca
She came so it was making love!
>>48228609
>Implying guts will survive long enough for a wizard to use up all his 9th level slots.
Lol, the problem is even if the wizard ran out of 9ths then guts will have to deal with 8ths and so on.
We're even making the wizard play Guts game by actually engaging him where its possible for him to fight back and letting him attempt a surprise round. Can you imagine him being able to sneak up on a wizard?
What about we turn it around and make it the wizards mission to kill him? Ok, so he has to deal with scry and die where the wizard takes two spells 1: teleport 2: his favorite save or die of choice.
Wizard teleports in, a surprise round for the wizard begins and Guts eats a save or die, does he save? Maybe if he rolls a 15+ he might, ok lets say he makes it. Cool, he gets to live long enough till round 1. Wizard teleports away and comes back later to try again. Except next time the wizard could be disguised as a peasant and the surprise round followed by the save or die followed by the teleport escape happens again. How often will it happen? Well, it may happen once an hour, once every 15 mins, heck guts may even get a day or two as the wizard chills out on his timeless demiplane before having another go but if the wizard really wanted him dead asap then he can try what? 5 times a day? Guts isnt going to last a week making DC 33 save or dies. And even if he does, how long till he attacks everyone on sight? Serpico walks into camp and it turns out to be a wizard and shoots him with a spell followed by a teleport, wizard is gone, 5 mins later a bird flies by and shoots him with a death laser, fuck, who knew that it was a wizard all along doesnt matter it will repeat over and over until he dies.
In fact, lets take it up a notch and ditch the saving throw. Wizard chooses energy drain followed by quickened enervation. Guts will not last 8 hours before all his levels are drained.
>>48228860
>Guts being murdered by radical larry
And the sad part is he wouldnt be able to do shit against it.
>>48228918
Couldn't he shoot a bunch of bolts with his crossbow? Or give him a facial with his armcannon?
>>48226887
Ssshhh, full caster wankers don't actually know the rules. Don't burst their bubble anon.
The sad thing is that they don't have to do anything fancy at all, they could very easily kill Guts just by core materials only and strict RAI. Berserk is not very high powered by the standards of anime.
>>48228860
Not a sneak attack beyond round 1, so how long does that work for?
>>48228670
>fast healing 10
>Mattering after 10th levelhttps://www.youtube.com/watch?v=-lfiTebewnc
>>48228949
Shoot on the run will mean it moves in, throws a dagger at guts and moves out during the same turn. The guy will be stealthed before guts can react.
>>48228981
Scout archetype rogue can make sneak attacks as long as it takes a move action.
>>48228957
The poster knew what he was talking about, the joke is: Guts is still Griffiths most beloved person so it means that love's pain will murder him.
>>48228988
Our sample fight had guts dieing to 1d4+1.
>>48228995
>Scout archetype rogue can make sneak attacks as long as it takes a move action.
Right, doesn't work if he's statted as a barbarian though. Uncanny Dodge beats Skirmisher.
>>48229038
>Barbarian
>Wearing heavy armor
>>48229056
He's right.
3.5
>At 2nd level, a barbarian retains his Dexterity bonus to AC (if any) even if he is caught flat-footed or struck by an invisible attacker. However, he still loses his Dexterity bonus to AC if immobilized. If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, he automatically gains improved uncanny dodge instead.
PF
>At 2nd level, a barbarian gains the ability to react to danger before her senses would normally allow her to do so. She cannot be caught flat-footed, nor does she lose her Dex bonus to AC if the attacker is invisible. She still loses her Dexterity bonus to armor class if immobilized. A barbarian with this ability can still lose her Dexterity bonus to armor class if an opponent successfully uses the feint action against her.
>If a barbarian already has uncanny dodge from a different class, she automatically gains improved uncanny dodge (see below) instead.
Read alittle berserk, tried to watch the anime. Fuck it gotta be the most edgy cringey shit ive ever watched. Guts is also worse than shadow the fucking hedgehog when it comes to edge with his COOL GUN HAND and im rly strong the stronghest ever heh those who cant fend for themselv should just DIE DIE DIE... kid.
His background is also hilariously forced edgy, born from his dead mummy under a corpse tree and raped.
Explain to me why people recommend this garbage.
>>48229056
I'm pretty sure he's fighter 10, warblade10, so still has uncanny dodge.
>>48229100
You haven't read past volume 6, I see.
>>48229056
>Fighter
>Having an 'I'm really fucking angry' form
>>48229121
Ask yourself this: Was the Casca rape scene really needed? Whats the fucking point in literally raping a character.
>>48224794
We get him to follow us to a Fenians we control then roflstomp him.
Alternatively we use a variety spells that kill/disable him without offering a save.
Or hit him with a locate city nuke.
In short: wizard cleric party wins
>>48229134
A power hungry asshole wanted to humiliate and piss off the one person in his entire life who managed to not be his pawn.
Griffith was basically going full beta uprising over the fact Guts wasn't gay for him.
>>48229209
Slap her or something than, thats more than enough to get the point across. No need for edgy rape scene.
I mean, one of our PF games ended with us becoming gods, one of which was the god of time
So just murder baby guts?
Here's a better question, OP.
Can your current character defeat GREY KNIGHT BAZUSO one on one?
>>48229235
SJW, >>>/out/
>>48229243
No, because Bazuso is actually an interesting character instead of being some sort of mary sue faggot.
My party would probably help their dudes out.
>>48229235
Are you retarded?
He's literally just started a small-scale apocalypse and just turned into one of the five beings who are basically embodiments of bad shit. The only way he could think of to piss off Guts was to rape Casca right in front of him, because Guts and Casca had actual romantic interest and were considering leaving Griffith behind.
By also do thing this, it corrupted Guts' child, which was actually kind of important for Griffith's "human' rebirth.
>>48224794
>You encounter one another in a ruined colosseum. Who wins?
I do, his moveset is quite predictable and he leaves some openings.
>>48225265
>>48229238
What is it with DnD and PCs ending up as le gods meme?
>>48229287
How is PCs ending up as gods a 'meme'? It's a pretty standard high level ending to a fantasy campaign.
>>48229134
Statistics show that former rape victims frequently themselves become perpetrators later in life.
>>48229260
I don't know if I'd call him interesting. We don't know anything about him, besides his reputation in battle and the fact that he's supremely confident.
I know Bazuso's basically a meme character by this point, but I still like him a lot.
>>48229287
Any sufficiently powerful entity is indistinguishable from god. And D&D spellcasters become pretty damn powerful if allowed to live long enough.
>>48229426
Yes, to make it to level 20 you've had to seem some shit. You also attend to attract enemies.
>>48229352
The trip to 20 is also notoriously lethal and the casualty rate for adventurers is tremendous.
Which also cements the fact that level 20 full casters are some of the most paranoid, ruthless and not to mention lucky individuals in their respective settings.
>The strongest DnD/Pathfinder party you've ever been a part of
What about my exalted party
>>48229537
If he cant touch a single DnD character let alone a party then he has no hope against someone from exalted.
>>48229537
Exalted is shit and for fags. D&D only.
>>48229552
Wow, a post slipped through bizarro-/tg/.
>>48229453
If by 3.5 rules, a wizard is not even technically present in the battle or realistically findable in the multiverse.
And if they have Craft Contingent Spell (the absolute height of paranoid wizardry) the possibilities just get unlimited, and usually completely fucking stupid in every way. IF something does happen to the wizard, it unhappens, an illusion appears, he is translocated to another private hidden plane, a horcrux is implanted in the attacker's own mind that will take him over if the wizard ever truly falls, and then a Time Stop goes off just in case other measures are necessary.
>>48228330
I don't go to /a/ because I'm not a fucking degenerate.
>>48230099
Yet here you are on /tg/ you fucking hypocrite
>>48230099
Seems like you're an /a/ poster to me, anon.
Complaining about anime: check.
Not talking about traditional games: check
Prioritizing shitposting over board content: check.
Considering most people's strongest parties usually involve godhood...yeah, I'm not feeling it in Guts' favour here.
My strongest characters are a demon lord and a creator deity.
The demon lord 1v1 would be...a legitimately interesting fight. The entire party would be such a ridiculous one-sided beat down it's not worth discussing.
>>48224794
never played either one , but i guess i will try to estimate his power in our current homebrew
first the golden age sword
>claims it to be 3 times thicker and heavier than a regular one
>uses it as if it was nimble like a little stick
the regular zweihänder in our system weighs around 2-3 kg with a strength requirement of 8-12 (one-handed). a regular untrained person has 10 STR , so using a zweihänder two-handed (which halfes the STR requirement) gives them an attack speed of 2,5x to 1.666...x
anything too clunky to swing below a speed of 2 negates critical bonuses , below a speed of 3 halves critical bonuses.
we see guts being quite nimble and precise with his sword , so this nigga has at least 36 strength in his golden age time , as opposed to the regular 20-25 STR of tanky fighters.
scaling this up to his post-eclipse equipment , his sword weighs around 100x more than a regular zweihänder. his attacks are often described as "too quick to see" , meaning he manages something like 6-8 attacks per turn...
which leads me to asigning a whopping 6000 - 8000 STR. which already means an equal sum of STR-based extra HP
give up all your hope , for he will kill you with the might of a little nuke.
and now with berserker armor on , i guess...
which would triple his physical power when activated (i once made a berserker armor for our system), resulting in enough STR to cleave the currently strongest creature possible to encounter in our current campaign in half.
or kill terraesques in a few turns/ smash neutronium golems to stardust
>>48225085
>new video game
holy shit I must have been blind
>>48225367
So he's a high-level human fighter with decent magic resistance and a suit of full plate that allows him to rage like a Barbarian and regenerate.
You're aware that this is fairly low-tier when it comes to high-level parties, right?
skirmisher doesn't deny dexterity it just guarantees you a sneak attack so uncanny doge doesn't help so death by a thousand arrows
>>48232405
Nevermind you are right the only if you have on improved uncanny Dodge
>>48224794
>Warforged Monk (Way of the Four Elements)
>Tiefling Sorcerer
>Wood Elf Arcane Trickster Rogue
>Hawk-person (forget the actual name of the race) spear fighter
>Elf Druid
>Halfling Monk (Way of the Open Hand)
I think we ended up at around level 6 or 7, so we're probably screwed. At best, I could slow Guts down a bit with my elemental abilities (mostly water and wind focused, but a bit of earth-bending as well) and hopefully we can escape (until he tracks us down again, but hopefully we'll be ready next time)
>>48232405
>>48232548
Just uncanny dodge. To quote the full feat (starring the quote for your convenience):
>At 8th level, whenever a scout moves more than 10 feet in a round and makes an attack action, the attack deals sneak attack damage as if the target was flat-footed. If the scout makes more than one attack this turn, this ability only applies to the first attack. *Foes with uncanny dodge are immune to this ability.*
>>48229778
>Craft continent spell
You're not a wizard unless you have craft continent spell.
>>48231380
It's called Dark Souls 3.
A 10th level Paladin with more honor thsn sense, an optimized rogue, and a sorcerer with a penchant for elemental destruction.
Rate us.
>>48233262
Dead/10 unless your sorcerer can do things other than blast.
Guts is pretty retarded effective against monsters, warriors, and the magic of his setting but 3.5 magic works on its own logic.
>>48233656
A PF rogue can kill guts no problem.
I highly doubt four unoptimized jobbers cant beat him thanks to action economy advantage alone.
>>48233698
>A PF rogue can kill guts no problem.
In his Berserker Armor, though? Like its actively repairing any damage his body suffers. I doubt a sneak attack would immediately kill him, though he would probably bleed out afterwards.
>>48229287
It's a way to end a character with a satisfying ending, and continue the lore.
>>48233745
>Guts
>Bleeding out from any single attack
Yeah no. Rogue stabs him once, pisses him off, rogue dies.
>>48233745
>repairing
I think that's a bit of a stretch.
Anyway, since sneak attacks are based around hitting vital areas, it would probably hit the brain, heart, or lungs. Damage to any of these areas would either immediately stop gutz, or prevent his body from doing the vital air-energy-production-and-circulation system we have going on, and he'd only have a few more seconds before his rampaging muscles ran out of fuel and became nonfunctional.
His brain, being in a less... advanced state of EXTREME ACTIVITY, might last longer.
>>48233801
>Anyway, since sneak attacks are based around hitting vital areas, it would probably hit the brain, heart, or lungs. Damage to any of these areas would either immediately stop gutz, or prevent his body from doing the vital air-energy-production-and-circulation system we have going on, and he'd only have a few more seconds before his rampaging muscles ran out of fuel and became nonfunctional.
>Sneak attacks are insta-kills
What the fuck kinda bizarro universe do you play in? And where do I sign up?
>>48231620
Forget parties, any single high-level caster would shit all over that with a little thing called "contingencies".
>>48233847
sorry, someone mentioned bleeding out and I was like "oh, biomechanics!"
Nevermind, guts just loses a pile of meat points.
>>48233872
>Nevermind, guts just loses a pile of meat points.
Or takes a gut stab that isn't enough to kill him. Or shrugs it off because Guts.
>>48233908
I assume guts has more than a pile of meat points, anon.
his name is GUTS.
>>48233745
Armor doesnt heal him, at best it heals a few crappy negative status ailments like stagger and maybe ability damage. He takes hp damage all the same while wearing it.
In fact, his dwarven armor even wouldnt be partiularly effective in 3.P and most adventurers would probably just sell it for something much more efficient.
>>48233790
Nah, rogue would put so many status ailments on him that I doubt the armor can fix and would be retardedly hard to hit.
Really, one of the reasons the rogue is considered bad is because it cant compete against magic. If you take magic away and reduce it into a fight against a guy that tries to hit you with his sword and nothing more then guts pretty much loses quite easily thanks to the many rogue talents, unhittable AC and much less spread out ability score thanks.
>>48233847
No but sneak attacks outdamage most martials with no problem. The armor doesnt even protect against precision damage and if you take the manga in consideration, actually has to stop for a while to mend broken bones which is probably a move action in the most generous of interpretations and a full round action to others.
It even specifically says that the wearer is vulnerable to bleed and states that its only advantage is mending bones.
Guts will be a bleeding mess after the first round and will continue to be crippled, debilitated and eat a bunch of status ailments that the armor doesnt protect from before round 2.
>>48233908
Nah, the hp difference is too small to make a difference. The rogue churns out way too many attacks that hit for way more and actually hits compared to guts who will maybe land one of two shots that will send the rouge into 3/4 hp at best.
>>48233955
So what's the rogue based off again? Feinting, or?
>>48229147
Try to explain the locate city nuke so you can figure out that it doesn't work in this scenario
>>48233989
Doesnt matter, guts' feats of strength in his own book just doesnt quite cut it.
Look, I'm sorry if the new anime was the first time you've been exposed to the fantasy setting. But your idol just doesnt cut it in the world of D&D and Pathfinder where the town watch can competently handle most of the threats he's been dealing with.
>>48234219
Course it matters. Unless you're feinting Uncanny Dodge means you can't even sneak attack him in the first place without a pal to flank with. And who said anything about me being a fan of Beserk?
For references sake, I'm modelling Guts as a barbarian/warblade, incidentally. Isn't the standard town guard a level 2 who can be taken down by 2 goblins? Looking at the pfsrd here.
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/bestiary/npc-s/npc-1/town-guard-human-warrior-2
While Guts fights demons, spirits and shit on a regular basis.
>>48234275
So does the town guard.
>>48234291
Considering they die to a couple of goblins? They really don't. An imp would kill the average town guard in Pathfinder, that's why adventurers handle the real threats.
>>48234318
The town guard are weakened for dramatic tension. In a typical setting guards deal with cultists, giants, orc skirmishes and even supernatural shit. You can probably compare those guys to the police in gotham city that has to deal with super villians on a regular basis. Sure they get in trouble when the schemes get too big but most villains get capped by the authorities just as open.
Hell, the lives of the level 3~5 guards are probably more interesting than some mary sue that kills almost everything he runs into in one hit.
>>48234411
>The town guard are weakened for dramatic tension. In a typical setting guards deal with cultists, giants, orc skirmishes and even supernatural shit. You can probably compare those guys to the police in gotham city that has to deal with super villians on a regular basis. Sure they get in trouble when the schemes get too big but most villains get capped by the authorities just as open.
They really don't. The guards in Gotham get fucked by the villains. And no, that is exactly the average town guard, says so in the description. In what setting do the town guards handle everything with ease? Hell, even you say town guards are level 3-5, far from dealing with anything Guts does so with.
Unless you're gonna argue that any creature explicitly statted is actually way stronger than it's explicitly stated to be for dumb reasons, in which case this is really a pointless discussion.
>>48227182
This post is everything wrong with modern /tg/. Half the people on this board don't even know how babby's first RPG works because they come from other boards to wank over anime fanfiction. Traditional games have become an afterthought.
>>48234411
>>48234460
Actually to quickly add on before I go to bed, try citing me something in PF/dnd that has town guards taking down a CR 13 Ice Devil, something which Guts (given in this as mid-high level) can deal with easily. I'll check in when I wake up.
>>48234465
go back to /a/ anon.
>>48224794
>Dnd/Pathfinder
Nah, I mean, maybe in RuneQuest he'd have a chance, but Guts is a Martial to the core, and Martials are gimped in D&D/PF.
>>48234587
Swing and a miss, idiot.
>>48234681
Nah, seems accurate.
>complaining about anime
>not talking about /tg/ stuff
>expectancy of everyone to have enjoyed your private library
>>48234703
What the hell are you even talking about?
>>48234716
Haha, caught you red handed.
>>48234729
I can't tell if you're autistic or just underage.
>>48234587
Yeah, we get a lot of shitposters like that.
more interested in complaining about anime than talking about /tg/.
>>48224794
> level 19 Rogue spec'd as a skill monkey
> level 19 fighter, does piddly for damage but is tanky out the ass
> level 20 wizard nuff said
> level 20 cleric nuff said
> level 19 monk that can turn into a dragon
