SCG Worcester prep edition.
For us Americlaps at least, SCG Worcester seems to be the next big Legacy tournament. I'll be there rocking DDFT. Anyone else going? What are you playing? What do you expect, metagame-wise?
Heeeey, was just about to make this thread. Wanted thoughts on a Daretti Stax deck I was thinking about building. I jlusually play MUD Metalworker but I wanted to branch out a bit. Something like:
4 Daretti
4 Trinisphere
4 Chalice
4 Tangle Wire
4 Grim Monolith
2 Crucible
4 Welder
4 Lodestone Golem
4 City
4 Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Great Furnace
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Darksteel Citadel
>>48124512
I think you should go full retard and play some smokestacks. Also I sort of question the goblin welders when you have daretti. Maybe not the full 4? I don't play star type decks at all really.
>>48124512
Needs mox opal.
>>48124512
Maybe a 1-of Sundering Titan? I don't know legacy at all
>>48124705
Probably, I just threw this together on my phone, Crucible meshes well with the Stack.
>>48124771
I was thinking Petals actually, it lets me power out a T1 Daretti in conjunction with Monolith and is still a free artifact I can play and use for fodder with Welder and Daretti
>>48125405
Sundering definitely goes into this list, that's why I opted for Rings and Furnaces instead of basics.
2 Sundering Titan
4 Metalworker
2 Goblin Welder
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Lotus Petal
4 Chalice of the Void
3 Tangle Wire
4 Trinisphere
3 Smokestack
2 Crucible of Worlds
4 Grim Monolith
4 Daretti, Scrap Savant
4 Ancient Tomb
4 Wasteland
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
4 Barbarian Ring
sb
1 Batterskull
1 Steel Hellkite
1 Tormod's Crypt
2 Ratchet Bomb
2 Ensnaring Bridge
1 All is Dust
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trading Post
2 Spine of Ish Sah
Here's the list I ended up testing.
Playing Dredge, moving away from TES and other combo decks like all spells and Belcher because Dredge is more fun and doesn't die to Force as easily
Standard list but with 4 breakthrough, had some flex spots left. I've been testing to see if Brisela is any good in the deck and so far it's been pretty good but it's pretty hard to get off even though the meme value is great and it's actually a good card that can do things that sideboard tech like Elesh Norn can't do. It does better against stuff like RUG Delver and Shardless BUG, and is a better beater than Iona, Elesh, or Blazing Archon
Any other dredge players able to tell me what I can tech in for the Eldrazi MU? It wasn't a deck when I last played legacy, I assume you treat it like a scarier MUD?
>>48126515
I think you should have a little bit more grave hate in the board. Just one or 2 more pieces. I would also run the full 4 ensnaring bridge in the board.
>>48126515
mutavault/ factory over barbarian ring ?
Daretti removed ? Petal is bad with trini.
Just go full smoke with golem.
>>48127183
yeah, you're probably right, I haven't playtested vs any dredge decks yet.
>>48128134
>mutavault/ factory over barbarian ring ?
I wanted more red sources for Welder and Daretti
>Daretti removed ? Petal is bad with trini
To be honest I threw this together becuase I wanted to play a deck with Daretti and Welder, so it's really gotta stay. The Petals help me cast T1 Grim Monoliths, Metalworkers, Trinispheres and Chalices since I'm not running a 12 post manabase.
>Just go full smoke with golem.
I was considering replacing the Wurmcoils with Lodestones but the Wurmcoild play nice with Smokestack and Welder, making tokens on death.
>>48128260
>I wanted more red sources for Welder and Daretti
You really only have 6 cards that use red mana, 4 of which are walkers and all of the sources only require one red mana. Maybe you cna go down to 3 daretti, 4 seems like a lot, and throw in more control like another tangle wire and maindeck sphere of resistance or two which would do a lot in aggro matchups early on
>>48128818
3 Daretti and another Wire sounds good, but I think I want to stay at 8 red sources, being able to cast a welder on turn 1 is pretty huge, for example, this happened a few games ago testing
>T1 Furnace Welder
>T2 Tomb Trini, gets FoW'd so i welder it back into play saccing Furnace.
The earlier I can land one and get it online the better so I can get artifacts through countermagic. After testing i've had great sucess with Daretti and tangle Wire, since Daretti can function under a Wire and keep it online. Locked out a Sneak and Show player for 5+ turns with it until I could find a Sundering Titan to clean it up.
>>48124512
my opinion? unless youre really set on this daretti gimmick toss the card, it's trash. play goblin welder instead if you want it
>>48128970
You could switch some lands and put in mox opals or mox diamonds to keep up the red sources and exchange barbarian ring for something more useful. I can kind of see why you'd run it but legacy has a lot more powerful options and it lacks the features your other lands have, like the fact that they all are either sol lands, artifacts, or wasteland. go like 2 barb ring 2 factory and switch in diamonds for maybe like a trinisphere because you've already got crucibles. A lot of the lists I've seen don't run 4 trinis because it's a lot and since the deck runs a lot of low cost cards it wants to get out early it's detrimental to have it out too early
>>48129210
I like that, i'll go for factory and mox diamonds, the one thing I really like about Ring is that it kills Delvers, Deathrite, Pyromancers, Stoneforge Mystics and such though.
>>48129464
Yeah that's why I didn't think it deserved to be cut entirely but getting that early threshold to get it off while trying to keep your red mana up is is harder than just playing stuff like like sphere to slow them down instead of trying to go 1-1 with them on card advantage
>>48129464
well the thing about red stax decks is that they either want to run over those delvers and stuff before they matter (ie the metalworker accelerant mud list) or they want to have better answers than barbarian ring (painter + pyroblast and reb)
the original spike on LED happened when they announced Eternal Masters won't have reserved list cards right?
>>48131254
Yeah, it was up to like 250 for a while and stabilized at like 150, which sucks even though I still have them. The reserved list needs to get changed or modified and some sets need to get taken off because this shit is ridiculous.
Think the new looting from EMN might go into any decks?
>>48132026
Whoops, wrong pic
Legacy is dead with the LED buyout.
t. knower
>>48132146
>card that like 3 decks use
It sucks but it's not the end of the world
Legacy is dead because landbases cost as much as cars
>>48132195
It's not going to stop me from playingnit onlinefor free.
Part of the allure for me is that you can kind of play whatever you want and make it work. I mean dragon stompy and sea stompy are decks, and as long as you prepare for them combo decks aren't even a huge issue, you have all the tools to deal with them.
>>48132146
Pretty sure an artificial price bubble isn't the end of the world
>>48132264
Stompy is usually pretty good against combo actually
>>48132302
That's the best part, it's ludicrous that that kind of deck is playable in a format it shares with ANT, Miracles, and Dredge. Though sometimes I have to label my lobbies competitive so I don't end up facefucking some poor guys relentless rats deck or whatever.
>Cards that are on the reserved list are banned from legacy play
Would this benefit the format in the long run?
>>48132412
If I ever get 3 byes at a GP, I'm going to bring Goblin Stompy and beat the shit out of pro's
>>48132497
Would literally kill the format.
>>48132497
Miracles would probably become even better by losing very few spells
Burn would be quite good
What if they unbanned Jar? I know it caused huge issues in block, but Academy is banned sooo...
>>48132497
A bunch of fun and interesting decks die for no reason
>>48132264
Online is totally different, I just love playing in person because I can't stand thinking at a computer. I love legacy, I just hate seeing people being turned away from it because some essential cards in decks are hundreds of dollars because Wizards are stingy cunts that put collectors over players. Take away the land base and use prices from eternal masters and decks are a lot more reasonable. I'd be willing to pay 15$ a pack for vintage masters and they weren't retards about it. I sol
5-land stompy is fucking hilarious to play and costs like 40$ and you can play it however you want, probably one of my favorite decks of all time.
>>48132497
fuck no, at that point you're practically modern
>>48132568
would be neat to see jar back but without the insane draw engines it had it might actually be underpowered
>>48132568
If Jar was legal it would probably spawn some really aggresive MUD decks that forgoe Trinisphere and Chalice and opt for Petal and Voltaic Key, sounds fun.
>>48132497
Playing with shocklands in a waste/port/price format sounds horrible.
>>48133178
Paying 1 500 $ for your mana base sounds worse.
>>48134239
So remove the Reserved list
Thanks for all the help guys, this is the list I settled on, and it's played great. The Mox Diamonds really help shore up the lack or a 12 post base and play really nice with Crucible.
3 Daretti, Scrap Savant
2 Goblin Welder
2 Wurmcoil Engine
2 Sundering Titan
4 Metalworker
4 Grim Monolith
3 Mox Diamond
4 Chalice of the Void
4 Tangle Wire
3 Trinisphere
3 Smokestack
2 Crucible of Worlds
2 Barbarian Ring
4 Wasteland
4 Ancient Tomb
2 Mishra's Factory
4 Darksteel Citadel
4 City of Traitors
4 Great Furnace
sb
1 Platinum Emperion
1 Steel Hellkite
2 Tormod's Crypt
3 Ensnaring Bridge
1 All is Dust
2 Sphere of Resistance
2 Phyrexian Revoker
1 Trading Post
2 Spine of Ish Sah
>>48134529
>1 Platinum Emperion
Angel is better, it has flying, costs 1 less, still safe from stuff like bolt, and lets you live against infect or the odd servant game
>not playing imperiel taxes
>being this wrong
>>48134529
Im no expert on MUD, but I wouldn't run Welder in it. One drops aren't what you want in a chalice deck. If you're set on the Welders, cut the Citadels for Caverns.
>>48134529
Ichor Wellspring is also surprisingly potent in a Red Stax build
>>48136615
I'll test Caverns in the place of Citadels, it'll make the Metalworkers slightly worse but I suppose I have to make a sacrifice somewhere.
>>48136640
I don't think cantripping is really where I want to be, I usually never have a problem with artifacts to sac, stuff like tapped Grim Monoliths and Great Furnaces most often.
>>48136713
Metalworker doesn't need help to be an insane card. In general I like Cavern in MUD.
The purpose of wellsprings is to beat grindy decks by making welders/daretti draw an extra card every turn, it adds up
>>48132923
I don't know about that. I don't think I've ever seen key be amazing outside of it's obvious pairing.
Honestly in a format without Tolarian, Tinker, or Workshop... Jar is pretty useless. The amount of mana you need to make that card amazing isn't something you can manage with petals and monoliths.
Now with that said - maybe there's something you could pull off with Tezzeret (Seeker) and Transmute Artifact.The effect of Jar is crazy powerful, but figuring out how to break it would take awhile as you can't just jam it in your deck and expect it to just be another 2-mana Draw 7 like in Vintage.
>>48134529
+4 lodestone golem
>>48135762
Sure, just let me go get some recruiters.
>>48135762
>playing Magus of the Moon
>4 port, 4 wasteland deck
Wut
>>48135762
>not trying to build legacy decks for under 30$
that said imperial taxes is probably close to what I'd run if I had unlimited money. I'd include the werewolves like that one guy did too
Fuck these buyouts. What chinese fakes should I use?
>>48137694
Look on Alibaba or something. If people refuse to but cards at the inflated prices, they will go down.
>>48137694
Are you talking LED or did something else get bought out?
>>48124276
Can Stone/Deathblade compete without splashing blue or playing Goyf?
I have everything else but really don't feel like buying goyfs or underground seas and topical islands.
>>48132607
>12Post and Mono Brown Stompy die.
>a bunch of fun
lol no
Elves and Enchantress can use Nykthos instead of Sanctum and Cradle.
Angel/Sea/Demon/Big Red/Eldrazi Stompy can survive without City of Traitors in a 1-turn slower format.
Storm can already function without Diamonds, the "budget" versions have gotten top 8s at 5 rounders.
Dredge loses the most but is likely to get another "accident" like Breakthrough to compensate.
Lands now has to cast spells to survive, how unfair. They'll just have to adapt the Raven's Crime engine or something instead of depending on Tabernacle.
Other RL cards are mostly SB tech like Chains, Void, Null Rod, Cursed Scroll, etc. And they already made it clear we may see those cards colorshifted in the near future.
>>48137905
DnT is basically that.
>>48132497
How to spot a memedern cuckold 101
>Let's ban X card
>I dun get how legacy balanced SO LET'S BAN POPULAR CARD TO LE SHAKE STUFFERINO UP! KAPPA KAPPA KAPPA XDDDD
>I haet dwedge!! it unfair >:(
>Le reseve list cards r ban1
>Stuff toooo expensiveee
>C-combo is unfuns!!!
>Miracles is toxics!1
If you see any shitposts with this you're talking to a MEMEDERN KEKOLD tell him to "fuck off subhuman cuck and sniffle on maro's cock" because as a subhuman he must be reminded until he 20' his brains clear.
>>48137905
Splash red for fun I guess? Post your list
>>48138384
>>Miracles is toxics!1
It doesn't feel toxic but it still sucks that there's so many miracles players
I get bored when assholes take 3 minutes to use a single top trigger
>>48138393
I have a hyper aggressive RW list somewhere. It plays kind of like a stoneblade stompy if you could imagine such am abomination.
I'll see if I can find it.
>>48138384
How does it feel to know that modern is officially more diverse than legacy now? Does it make you sad that you spent 3000 dollars on a solved format?
>>48138325
Don't have the Ports or Vials for that. And it really isn't, D&T is very control-oriented while Blade decks are more tempo/midrangey.
>>48138393
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/06-07-16-blade/
>>48138415
That's because useless "pro" retards insist on playing "the best deck" instead of a deck they can actually play well. Not really the deck's fault.
It's also why my meta is filled with BUG decks despite how popular Burn is and how much it assdevastates them.
>>48132026
Worldgorger.
That is all.
>>48132145
Dunno about Legacy but in Vintage this is going to replace Mikokoro in Notion Thief.dec
>>48138626
How does it feel that memedern is the short bus of mtg?
>>48138104
So much misinformation in one post...
Nykthos does not enable turn 2-3 kills
Without being able to reliably drop a lock piece turn 1, Stompy goes from tier 1.5 to tier 3
Storm without LED is not a deck. Infernal Tutor stops being good, the deck becomes pretty mediocre. Same with dredge.
Lands without tabernacle is about tier 1.5. You up the Glacial Chasm count and become much worse against aggro, which was the main reason to play the deck anyone. Ravens Crime remains unplayable garbage.
What other decks die?
High Tide, Aluren, Aggro-Loam, MUD, Tin Fins, Stax to name a few. In general, reducing the cardpool will reduce diversity
What to we gain? Burn becomes better. Show and Tell is the uncontested best combo deck, Death and Taxes is now a good matchup for it. Hooray.
>>48138846
Its pretty neat how you can destroy a metagame if you make the right call. Taking Tezzeret or Post to a Miracles heavy meta, or taxing Pox to a Delver infested meta.
>>48139216
You are assuming you're playing a post RLban deck against pre RLban decks.
Because you're a retard.
Agro is empowered by the use of shocklands, whick results in modifications to all current decklists and allows for the decks that lose the most to reevaluate and redesign.
Only decks that absolutely run on an irreplaceable RL card like Aluren, Meditate, Metalworker and Tabernacle become unplayable. Everything else remains a matter of good deckbuilding.
>>48139314
Miracles uses 1-2 cards on the list.
Miracles GENOCIDES aggro.
Fuck off memedern kid and suckle on maro's cock
>>48139314
The decks that will be good are Burn, Infect, Miracles, Stoneblade, Reanimator, Delver and Sneak and Show because they almost do not change. You aren't going to brainblast your way to some deck that somehow manages to be as fast as decks that existed before.
Daze becomes a pretty bad card with shocklands, but might still see play.
The real stupidity is the notion that banning cards because they're expensive is a good idea. Try playing a format before making idiotic assertions like "Nykthos is of a similar power level to Cradle in Elves".
Seriously, if you want to make this argument better, try playing or having more than a cursory understanding of the format.
>>48139423
He's a memedern kid, he's mentally challenged anon.
He firmly believes borked cards like bstorm or fow are evil and meanie.
>>48139460
To be fair, I Brainstorm being a bannable card is actually pretty arguable. It is probably the most ridiculous card in the format.
>>48139408
Miracles constantly stabilizes at 2-4 vs Burn.
>>48139423
No-RL Legacy is not an attractive idea because cards are expensive. It's because enough cards DO NOT EXIST and faggots grading, ripping, vaulting or EDHing duals aren't helping the problem.
Right now SCG has more than halved their support of Legacy, MTGGoldfish are talking about a new format with the RL banned and some LGSs with medium to large Legacy scenes are proposing 5-proxi Legacy. All because we're past the event horizon of card avaliability.
>>48139460
>Ban RL = ban Brainstorm and FoW
Nice persecution complex.
>>48138626
GR8B8M8
>>48139631
Saffron Olive doesn't play legacy and wrote one article. Its a terrible idea.
If RL cards are so hard to come by, then why are they always available? Until recently, the retarded 'pump and dump" was only a modern thing. The reaction that the Legacy community is having to it (awareness and telling people to wait until the prices deflate) might actually be able to stave it off.
>>48139631
Wow, card merchants are pushing a new format that has more potential for profit to the detriment of the people that actually like the format? I'm amazed.
The problem is the reserved list. You don't deal with the problem by ramming your tongue even farther up WotC's anus and telling them you love the taste.
Hey lads, really want to get into Legacy (RUG delve is my deckfu), but of course at this point prices are pretty excessive. At the same time, I want to get my hands on Expeditions (starting at the top) before they start inflating in price.
I was gonna get expeditions before the revised duals, but now every few days a new reserved list card gets bought out. Should I focus my limited funds on duals first? They seem in danger of one of these buyouts...
>>48139822
You shouldn't be worried about buyouts, but buy your dual's first.
>>48139649
>Let's ban the RL! retards
>Not the same retards as "Let's ban X card bcus its used too much and hurts my fee-fees"
>>48139502
>Banning bstorm
>Good
>Ever
How to spot a baddie 101
>>48139679
Having no-RL Legacy be a thing isn't gonna take away your Underground Seas or the few opponents left who have their own and want to play against you.
>>48140051
>let's play a format like legacy but without the cards we can't even buy because nobody but starofdavidgames has them in stock
>same as your memedern boogeyman
If Tabernacles are so easy to find gift me a pair.
>>48139835
Thanks meighty. Should I worry about any of the buyouts that are actually happening? Was planning on getting an LED someday and some other RL cards, dunno if I should get one while I can or wait til maybe the price drops.
>>48140166
Not really, its a matter of supply and demand. The point of a buyout is to create a false lack of supply, but ultimately the supply has not really changed. If you wait it out, prices always go back down. Never buy a card after a buyout and don't buy into the panic.
>>48140153
>nobody but SCG has duals
Have you heard of eBay/TCGplayer?
>>48135762
that deck is degenerate and jesus christ its expensive.
>>48140109
It muscles a lot of non-blue decks out of the format, I wouldn't hate a Legacy without it.
>>48140329
You mean China with TCGMid prices?
>>48140433
Do people not understand how eBay's buyer protection work?
>>48139460
Yeah, because nonrestricted Ancestral Recall that also combats hand destruction is totally balanced and doesn't skew the format towards blue at all. No one thinks FoW is banworthy, 2-for-1ing yourself when you're not facing Belcher is pretty bad.
>>48140445
Not that I'm disagreeing, but the tempo from a Force can easily be worth 2 cards in the right position
>>48140864
The situations where you win off the fow tempo and where spell pierce or plain old cs wouldn't do the trick can be counted with one's fingers. Sure they exist but there probably won't be one in any given open/iq.
>>48141870
yeah im gonna firmly disagree
ive been playing bug delver for some odd 3-4 years and against a lot of blue decks i find myself keeping like 2 in if not the 4
>>48140442
Like you would ever be able to tell a well-worn modern fake from a real card without a blacklight and a loupe.
>>48142446
Like the average person purchasing doesn't have these things
>>48140166
Duals are pretty hard to buy out because there are so many of them and they were basically always sought after (rather than being draft chaff for a long time like some older cards)
>>48142446
The ink they use is completely different and waxy. Seriously, if you're attempting to imply that fake cards are indistinguishable from real cards, you're pretty far off
>>48141870
Are you saying that counterspell is ever a tempo play? Let's look at some examples from yesterday.
1. Grixis Delver vs Shardless. I have 2 wastelands, and a Deathrite in hand, but no bolts. I would force a turn 1 Deathrite on the draw
2. Playing Delver against Miracles and my only threat is getting Plowed
3. I'm developing my board. My opponent misses a land drop, then tries to brainstorm on their next turn
Seriously, Force is a great tempo card. If you don't know that, then you don't play that much Legacy.
>>48141870
I think you're decidedly wrong. Force let's you build your board in the early game while holding up interaction. That's importal for tempo. This sort of play happens frequently.
>>48139202
You can't argue with numbers. The top 4 decks in legacy have 45% of the meta share, in modern its 31%. The top 3 decks at gp columbus each had 15% of the meta, at gp la and charlotte no deck cracked 10. You are quantitatively wrong.
>>48148245
Can't argue with the numbers. Can argue with their validity as a measure
>>48148878
"Legacy is better and more diverse because I want it to be! I cant have spent 3000$ for nothing!"
This is you.
>>48149016
So you picked the less diverse legacy GP and the more diverse Modern GP. Cherrypicking data proves nothing.
My measure is always live tournaments, where only miracles breaks 10% of the meta.
This is of course ignoring arguments about how different is monored burn is from naya burn, viable larger archetypes etc.
Should I buy the rest of Painter? I just got my tax return.
Where's the best place to get alters? I want to get my Grave-Trolls altered to have my favorite hockey players on them
>>48140417
Big bad and mean blue took your lunch money baby?
>>48150044
Nah, I just remember 4+ years ago when Zoo and Maverick were viable, tier 1 decks.
>>48149989
Probably Etsy, look at their work and talk it over before committing to anything.
>>48149989
Look online for alterists, they usually have their own websites
>>48149016
Legacy is better because you don't need to spend $3k to win on a medium sized competitive setting.
Locally we have 2 montly Legacy events that draw 30-60 people, including a couple local pros.
Despite at least half the meta being Shardless BUG, Miracles, Omnishow, Delver and D&T. Tournaments have been won by Tier 1-3s like Burn, Elves, Maverick, Manaless Dredge and even weird shit like Rack and Tezzerator.
On the other hand we have weekly 30-80 people Modern events that have never been won by a deck that is not part of the current Tier 1.
Modern's tier 1 may be longer by 4-5 entries, but unlike Legacy where rogues and anti-metas can surprise everyone, those 8-11 decks are the only decks you can play if you want to win.
>>48150255
I like that in Legacy I can play Aggro, control, aggro-control, midrange, combo, aggro-prison, prison-control, combo-prison, aggro-combo, combo-control, midrange combo, or Aggro-Loam.
Do people even play in tournaments that don't allow 100% proxies? It's not like you shitters are going to top 8 BoM
>>48150356
Yes, why?
>>48150356
No tournaments let you use proxies unless they're non-DCI tournaments at which point why bother outside of testing
>>48150366
Why would you ever do that?
>>48150377
It's fun to play magic? What?
>>48150401
You can play magic using proxies. You can also have entry fees and prize structures.
>>48150371
Some stores do un-sanctioned 100% proxy tournament while still offering prize support. My LGS's owner makes a custom playmat for the winner.
>>48150474
And I like going to sanctioned legacy too. What's the problem?
>>48150484
I don't like playing against 75 basic lands with sharpie on them
>>48124276
>SCG Worcester
Wait what
I live like 20 minutes from there
Anyone wanna lend me a Sneak and Show deck
>>48150341
>Midrange Combo
... I can't think of a deck that fits this, help me out.
>>48151194
Aluren
>>48151194
titanpost? enchantress? all i can think of that kinda work
>>48151194
I saw someone top 8 a legacy classic once that combod a Siege Rhino with 3 other Siege Rhinos
What's everyone's thoughts on the recent buyouts?
>>48151914
Made a fuckload of money buying reserve list shit the day EMA was announced and selling into the spike to gullible fucks at my LGS.
>>48151914
I sold my money duals back when EM was announced and their prices shot up and I got my LED's a few weeks before that so I'm happy
Really sucks though because it'll further turn others off from legacy. Reserved list needs to be abolished to keep the best format afloat
>>48149116
You're making no sense. The data is there. I'm not talking about modern during eldrazi winter or legacy in some old memory. The fact is, right now, modern is more diverse than legacy by a significant margin at recent major events. If you want to use other data, like mtgo shares, go ahead. But you'll just find that miracles takes up 20% of the meta while the most played deck in modern, either jund or infect or jeskai depending on the weekend, doesn't crack 8%.
The fact is, because legacy players sink so much money into their decks and switching to a new archetype is prohibitively expensive, any given event will have a large number of tier 2-3 decks represented. But the fact is that relatively few decks in legacy actually regularly win anything, or even make day 2 of large events. Your format is not perfect like you always claim, it is quantitatively worse than modern in every way since the April unbannings.
>>48151914
"Just because you can doesn't mean you should"
>>48152374
You reference events from immediately after the unbannings. Right now, in paper Miracles is 13% of the meta. Your numbers are based on nothing.
Furthermore, Modern decks are 50% random aggro decks.
>>48152374
If you lost the first round of a Legacy Open you start seeing a ridiculous ammount of crazy brews, rogues, and Tier 2-3 funstuff until you meet the BUG, D&T, Miracles/Omnishow triad again at top 8.
If you lose the first round of a Modern Open you actually paid money for 5+ hours of playing against Burn.
Anyone got a good Tezzerator list?
>>48154055
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12777&d=274102&f=LE
most recent one I've found but it's a pretty rare deck
>>48154091
>>48154055
I don't like that list much at all, I recommend something like this
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12530&d=272233&f=LE
Basically, you want to be a thinking mans Chalice deck. Chalice isn't getting you free wins, but it makes you a favorite against Miracles and Delver. Baleful Strix and Bridge kick the everloving shit out of Eldrazi and Delver.
>>48154091
Thanks, not quite what I expected though.
>>48154469
this seems more my speed, thanks.
>>48150568
Then you better get used to not playing the format at all in 5-10 years.
>what are printed proxies
>>48157466
Yup Legacy is dying, just like it has been for the last 10 years.
>>48157487
Yeah don't know about that. What is an undebatable fact is that the price of duals and other RL cards has more than doubled in a few years and given they won't be reprinted ever the only realistic prediction is that before too long Legacy will cost as much and be as dead as paper Vintage now, assuming mtg as a whole is even alive at that point
>>48157508
Its almost like the price of dual's follows a cycle and we're in the "up" part of it right now. Weird.
>>48157942
>>48158023
Exactly. They spiked hard about 2 years ago, then slowly dropped down significantly, they just spiked again and started to go back down until buyout panic struck.
Unless you're implying that 2 years ago we went from fine to fucked overnight.
>>48158109
The drop down you are seeing in that graph was unprecedented. It was caused by SCG decreasing support for legacy, and the announcement of only one North American Legacy GP and European GP happening on the same weekendwhich is fucking stupid and a slap in the face to dedicated legacy players who are willing to travel far for GPs.
Something like that is not likely to happen again, and if it does it probably means SCG/WIzards is completely dropping legacy from premiere play.
>>48158126
That dip is the sharp one right over 2015. That was announced November 2014, prices began to drop way before then.
I would love WOTC to drop Legacy support though. The GP is nice, but there are enough independent events that are much more fun than watching a pile of SCG grinders play the "best deck"
>>48157942
It literally cannot follow a cycle since the supply of RL cards can only go down after any given time t where t is after the introduction of RL whereas the demand will either increase due to cash grabs disguised as "support" like EMA and SCG events or stay at a constant. Sure, the prices might drop in the short term if no douche buys out a large retailer but the fact is we will never see a playable unaltered UG Sea under 100 dollars/euros again.
>>48158323
The supply of people who are willing to pay $400 for a usea dries up pretty quickly; prices go down because there isn't as much interest in the format. The increasing price will eventually lead to a decreasing price.
Supply and Demand: the demand for $400 useas is way less than the demand for $200 useas.
RIP LEGACY
Martin the guy who tried to raise a new AIDS antiviral drug to something like 5000% is buying out EVERYTHING!!!
https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/4rm2x6/advice_for_a_new_and_wealthy_player/
>>48158938
He's a good hearted man.
>>48158980
>makes AIDS-ridden normies pay more for their drugs
>Buying everything on the RL, hopefully causing WotC to remove it
He's 4chan's patron saint.
>>48158938
>tried
Didn't he succeed? Did I miss something?
>>48150103
>flexed because bstorm
The bad real
>>48158938
>https://www.reddit.com/r/magicTCG/comments/4rm2x6/advice_for_a_new_and_wealthy_player/
If Martin actually bought out the reserved list, it could force Wizards to remove the reserved list and he could sell it all back once people are selling stuff back in a frenzy to get a fuckton of money
#freemartinshkreli
Any Eldritch Moon cards you guys are excited about?
>>48162575
New Thalia is at her best in Legacy I feel, I'm almost sure that card will see play.
Voracious Reader seems like he could work in Delver. 3/4 is a really relevant body against most creatures in the format before even factoring Prowess.
The green spell that returns all lands from your graveyard to the battlefield tapped is just begging to be broken and I think Legacy has more tools to do that with than Modern.
That's pretty much it for Legacy, there are a lot of cards that look like they could be playable in Modern, but 3 cards with potential in Legacy from 1 set is more than I could have expected so I'm happy.
>>48138384
>>48163011
I didn't like Voracious Reader at first, but as I think about it it could actually end up being a role player in some deck.
>>48163282
I love that card so much, I have 0 use for it but I want a full set, that and Lone Rider. Super cool with cool effects and awesome art
>>48163011
I think some of the black cards could make B/G midrange/Rock/Gate come back a little. A second Hymn is pretty sweet
>>48163736
Which ones though? I haven't seen anything that really screams to me Eternal Midrange, that's a very high level of creature quality that you need to achieve.
I do agree on Hymn of Emrakul. The one concern is what's the shell that can reliably achieve turn 2 Delirium. Dredge I suppose?
>>48163874
I was looking at Grim Flayer and maybe strokirk condemned. The gate ran a lot of vampires so maybe it could work with a light green splash for decay and goyf
>>48163874
>>48164087
Actually now that I think about it, Pox could run it
>>48152682
So you have no real sources then? I just gave you data from both the most recent GPs and mtgo and you still move the goalposts. Even if miracles is 13% of the total paper meta, which is doubtful given its representation at the GPs, that is still more than the most played decks in modern which currently sit around 8%. I'm not even going to address your second point, as it means you don't really know anything about the current modern metagame and can't add numbers together.
>>48153585
You made my point. There are tons of decks in legacy that lose. But there are really only 4 decks that win. The legacy GPs had a far less diverse day 2 than both modern GPs. To say that there are no rogue brews in modern is ridiculous, the last GP had Ad Nauseam win and decks like suicide zoo and bant knightfall top 8 and GW Tokens get top 16. The last SCG Event was taken down by Grixis Delver and had living end in top 8. How many of those sick rogue brews got top 8 of columbus?
http://tappedout.net/mtg-decks/13-03-16-ddft/
This is my decklist for SCG Worcester. I'm very happy with the maindeck. But I have 1 more sideboard slot to fill. The question is, what to put in?
Our choices are: Telemin Performance, to cheese wins vs sneak and show, reanimator, storm, etc.
OR
Time Spiral, to replenish my hand, improve my natural tendrils chances, and build weird doomsday piles.
>>48166126
Modern Ad Nauseam is far from a rogue brew. And gp prague had a much more intestine meta, furthermore, if you look at scg classics, they often have a wide variety of decks make top 8, and have hundreds of players. If you look at the top 64 instead of top 8 of gps, you'll see a wide variety of decks that were one win or better breakers away from sneaking in.
>>48166433
I think I'd go with the Spiral, relying on a 5CMC Sorcery to fuck with S&S, Reanim... really does not feel like where you want to be.
>>48166126
Mtgtop8 live tournaments. There's my source.
>>48166433
Eldrazi rapes storm so tech for that and be ready for it
>>48166710
Well generally telemin performance would be played off ritual or LED mana. Like if you open a hand like [sea, volc, LED, wish, ritual, duress, whatever] you can duress turn 1 and then meme it up turn 2. Time spiral's purpose in older DDFT builds was to build very high storm counts, but lab maniac obsoletes that. Maybe neither is good and I'd be better off with another tendrils or another discard spell or something else techy.
>>48167631
Wew lad, i dunno what match up i hate the most, if storm or eldrazi
>>48166710
>>48167672
I suppose I could put void snare back in, might be better
>>48167710
DD isn't storm but it plays similarly and I'd assume they have similar problems
>tfw switched over from TES to Dredge for the memes
>>48149523
Finish it son. I'm nearly there myself.
>>48167866
sup kenny
>>48167827
Doomsday is a storm deck, it just has a backup lab maniac kill. But it primarily kills with tendrils.
ayy i'm a modern player but my friend's going to a legacy tourney this weekend and offered to lend me his grixis delver deck if i wanted to tag along
what should i know about the format? hell, what should i know about grixis delver, i've only played against them, and that hasn't been for like.. years
>>48170254
You're gonna get stomped
A large part of legacy is knowing the meta and what to play around and what to tech in. Grixis Delver isn't really something you can goldfish a ton of times to get the feel of either, maybe watch some games online to get a feel for it
>>48151194
Food Chain, Aluren, Metalworker, Loam Depths
>>48170254
you're not going to play a brainstorm deck properly going in blind, but here's my advice:
1. sandbag fetchlands to use after brainstorm to shuffle away cards you don't want
2. force of will chalice of the void every single time
3. deathrite shaman is the best creature in that deck
4. resolve young pyromancer - cast cabal therapy, name a card you thinkt hey have that is bad for you - trigger get an elemental - flashback cabal therapy sac the elemental, name any card in their hand you saw and really didn't want them to have - trigger get another elemental
5. if they play Council's Judgement: ALWAYS NAME THE CARD THEY NAME
>>48170786
Doomsday certainly counts
>>48170901
4. is actually cast spell, resolve elemental trigger, resolve spell. sorry, been up since 5 AM
Should I try to buy Underground Seas and Volcanic Islands now, or wait for a large price decline like with the spike a few years ago? I've been building and saving up for my deck for over a year and the recent dual land spike really fucked me up.
If the prices stay this high, I might just sell what I have of the deck and leave Magic, at least until Modern or Standard becomes decent. Anyone else in the same boat?
>>48171439
I am, honestly I bought fakes and am waiting for them to come down to $200ish. The bubble will burst, getting more people into buying out honestly just expedites it.
>>48171439
Shekelli just joined the spec game, if he's serious and didn't just buy 5 Black Lotus and Hasbro actions to troll us, the RL and anything that used cards on it is doomed to become unplayable.
DnT representatives ww@?
>>48171736
Right here.
>>48171736
In jail for fiscal fraud and false personation.
3-0 tonight with Grixis Delver, beat Dredge in the finals. Managed to win game 1 off bolting my own dude and game 2 off Deathrite Shaman being a boss card.
>>48172413
Good job, wish I could have gone tonight.
>>48172413
Went 2-1 with ANT myself.
Lost g3m3 to a blind Counterbalance flip on Infernal Tutor.
I'm going to be salty about that one for awhile.
>>48172671
I
Etiquette Question: if you watch an ANT player miss a deterministic win, and they end up losing because they went for with a shitty line, is that rude?
>>48172724
I feel like there's a word missing here, if you are asking if it's rude to point it out that they fucked up, I don't think so. It's more about how you say it.
Not that I think this comes up too often, ANT is very linear in it's gameplan. You kind of just count the mana, and if you have the mana, you can go off. It's not like DDT where you basically always have two branches of lines to take, or fucking Gifts which I'm pretty sure you have to be a computer to play at peak efficiency.
I want to try to get into Legacy. I'm a broke college student, so this will entail me slowly buying cards for a single deck over the course of the next several years. The deck that appealed to me most after a brief overview was Grixis Delver. I am still pretty unfamiliar with the Legacy metagame so I could very well be swayed in this matter. This just seems feasible because I can work towards U/R Delver then transition it to Grixis over time.
Any advice or suggestions from some dedicated Legacy players?
>>48173333
Don't buy into Legacy unless you have the money
The meta can also flip pretty quickly if a good card is printed so your deck might not be great forever
>>48173522
but Legacy seems so fun. It's Magic in its purest form. Can the meta really change that fast? I was under the assumption Legacy got 5-6 new workable cards a year.
>>48173333
Grixis Delver is a great deck, but don't try to buy into the format if you can't really afford it.
Maybe see if you can find some people willing to start a proxy league or something, or just that will let you play with a proxied deck.
10$ in printing and a couple hours with a knife and some glue and you can turn a bunch of basic lands into a serviceable imitation of 3000$ worth of cardboard.
Spend the remaining 2990$ on food or student loans or something.
>>48173333
start off using shocklands as the duel lands. slowly grow your collection and add things you get over time to it. Thats how I was able to do TEPS and drege.
>>48173540
It's not super fast but if something like Delver gets printed again it can change super fast
>inb4 that'll never happen
Pyromancer isn't that level but it's similar
>>48173522
This is pretty bad advice. There will never be a time when a Volcanic Island or a Flooded Strand becomes a bad card.
>>48173560
The thing is though, even if new good cards get printed, these good cards arent going anywhere. Delver of Secrets will always be good. Brainstorm will always be good. Young Puromancer will always be good. Force of Will will always be good. Gitaxian Probe, Deathrite Shaman, Lightning Bolt, Daze, Dismember; the list goes on.
Getting these cards one at a time (or a playset at a time in some cases) isn't unfeasible. And I dont plan on getting these cards all right now. I am talking 4-5 years getting this deck together. It doesn't seem too daunting a task when I approach it that way.
Anyone have experiences with Villa Zheng proxies? Thinking about ordering some because cba to pay 130e per LED (or more if some douche starts buying out MCM).
>>48173171
He missed DP ->LED and Brainstorm/LED/probe lines
>>48173783
That's how I built my deck in a year. Recommend getting forces, fetchlands and wastelands first
>>48173540
Yes and no.
Before Thought-Knot Seer, Stompy was Blood Moon or bust. Now you see Chalice and Trinisphere EVERYWHERE.
Before Eidolon, Burn was a tier 4 joke deck. Now it threatens the big boys and is Shardless' personal boogeyman.
Before Deathrite Shaman Stoneblade decks were worse than The Rock, The Gate and Maverick.
Before Terminus, Countertop was "cute stuff".
Before Thalia, D&T was fragile to removal.
And of course, Delver is only 5 years old.
If you take months saving for a single dual it will seem like the format is changing too fast but if your core list is ready and you're just adapting flex spots and sideboard tech you'll actually enjoy the fluctuations a lot.
>>48174169
It's always better to buy duals now. The price nevers comes down that much and always goes back up.
http://mtgtop8.com/event?e=12908&d=275113&f=LE
What the fuck is this?
>>48176293
>Opposition Prison
god, just when I thought this format couldn't get any better
>>48173783
Except fow isn't "good" in any real sense of the word, it's just necessary not to die on turn 1 or to push your own turn 1 kill through your opponent's force.
hey guys. I 3-0d last night with my pet deck. I was hoping I could get some help with the sideboard though, as right now, it's just wish targets + random bullshit. here's the list:
3 polluted delta
2 flooded strand
1 misty rainforest
1 underground sea
4 island
1 wasteland
2 tolaria west
4 inkmoth nexus
4 force of will
1 snapback
1 summoners pact
4 ponder
4 preordain
4 cunning wish
3 blazing shoal
4 progenitus
2 spell pierce
4 muddle the mixture
4 brainstorm
2 daze
4 blighted agent
sb:
1 pact of negation
2 pithing needle
1 grafdiggers cage
1 null rod
1 invasive surgery
1 searing wind
2 mindbreak trap
1 slaughter pact
3 seal of removal
1 echoing truth
1 blazing shoal
>>48177154
Force of Will is an insane tempo card, it's not a "bad card" in any sense
>>48174169
Stoneblade is worse with Deathrite in it. It's not a deck now because it's worse than Shardless.
That being said, if you have the deck you have 4 Force, 8 blue fetches, some blue duals and wastelands. That's the recipe for a lot of different decks.
Furthermore, you get rewarded for playing a deck you know way more than for playing what is objectively "best".
Did Lands/Eternal Garden get any new toys? I've not played it in ages.
Did MUD just become Eldrazi.dec?
>>48181124
no its literally the same, BUT some people are have experiment with a bayou for ABRuPT DECAY
>>48181124
A couple new cards are in the list now. Riftstone portal over the second mana bond, Horizon Canopy over the second Tranquil Thicket and a flex slot where the 4th Dark Depths is, usually taken up by Bojuka Bog, Karakas or Ghost Quarter depending on the meta.
>>48161725
If WOTC removes the reserve list the price of RL cards will go down and Schckrelli will lose money. He's really dumb about this shit, can't believe he got rich.
>>48124276
Post your Doomsday list?
>>48167866
You can complete that fo like 10 dollars+shipping
>>48157508
Chinamen keep it alive
