>when the Mechanicum ends up making a better supersoldier than your precious power armour-clad, geneseed mary sue male powerfantasy soldiers
JUST
>>48089719
Mechanicum automata are not capable of independent action (or only in very limited scope), need regular maintenance and functional supply chain.
Meanwhile, you can drop half dozen Marines one a planet with nothing but a loincloth and orders to bring it under Emperor's rule and there's a decent chance they will succeed.
You don't recall the Men of Iron? How that nearly wiped out humanity?
In their day, the AI revolt came closer to destroying humanity than Chaos has ever done.
>>48089755
>Thallax
>automata
>>48089767
>Highly unstable supersoldiers
The Emperor realized this was a bad idea when he decommissioned the Thunder Warriors.
>>48089767
>I have a mouth but I was ordered not to scream anymore
>>48089767
>their brain rots over time
This sure isn't a fatal flaw.
>>48089828
Brains are the cheap part. Grow a new one in a vat and just jam it in.
>>48089878
Grown humans are forbidden.
>>48089719
They're akin to Dreadnoughts.
On asidenote, GW really doesn't like cleaning their illstrations anymore.
>>48089890
Afriel
>>48089890
Except not.
Kriegers come from vats (iron wombs).
Servitors are also made of vat-grown organisms specifically intended for servitorization.
>>48089890
Clones are heresy. But vat-growing individual body parts is okay. IIRC Magos Biologis can have one swappable hemisphere that can change depending on needed expertise. The personality is retained in the other and in the lower brain (w/e is it called anatomically).
>>48089828
No, they just lose more and more of their personality and "self" over time until they have the personality of a piece of cardboard/Master Chief.
>>48089911
Vitae-womb is not a clone vat. It's more of drugged up accelerated (but otherwise natural) pregnancy.
Clones for servitors are a possibility but it's usually not worth it, making them from criminals and other undesirables is considerably cheaper.
>>48089974
> vitae-womb
It's left unclear as to what it actually is. I assume this is so your imagination can fill in whatever grimdark option you choose.
>>48090000
Chaos has the grimdark birthing vats covered.
>>48089719
So great they were that virtually none exist today, while you have Marines dating back to the Heresy among us.
>>48089974
It's also mentioned to be tech-heresy. The redt of the Imperium is either unaware of Krieg using the tech, or looking the other way because Krieg produces too good soldiers for them to tell them to stop.
>>48090034
Wasn't it confirmed that the AdMech is still making them albeit in more limited numbers?
They're pretty much their equivalent of Space Marinec.
>>48090000
Them digits!
>>48089974
Vitae-wombs have two lines in the fluff and are left ambiguous. Your interpretation isn't less valid than another, but it isn't law.
The Afriel soldiers were clones, cherubs are vat-grown, and the land raider machine spirit is a vat-grown cybernetic brain.
It's simply that the Imperium doesn't lack manpower in the slightest, so the magos biologis usually have other things to do.
>>48090051
>They're pretty much their equivalent of Space Marinec.
They always seemed to me more like heavy weapon platforms.
Marines are more about flexibility and shock tactics, Thallax just go around with big guns.
Like devastator marines, but with more dakka.
>>48090116
>Like devastator marines, but with more dakka.
And jet packs Anon, and jet packs.
>>48090000
>>48089974
It was clarified in the krieg novels.
>in b4 black library isn't canon because it goes against muh headcanon
>>48090081
>The Afriel soldiers were clones,
The guys from WD 303? The afriel strain were an attempt to create perfect soldiers by combining the DNA of many imperial heroes. The end resut were albino super soldiers who were cursed with bad luck. Not naturally born but they are not clones.
>land raider machine spirit is a vat-grown cybernetic brain
Is this actually stated anywhere? I know there is the picture of the "M32 Cyclops-class Machine Spirit" sphere thing but that doesn't give any further detais on what that actualy is apart from being a black sphere thing.
>>48089719
>when the mechanicum ends up making a better special character than your precious power armour-clad, geneseed mary sue male powerfantasy primarchs
JUST RIGHT
>>48090062
>inb4 "user was banned for this post"
>>48089767
That is downright horrifying
>>48090314
It's not explicitly stated for the land raider itself, but it's well established from many sources that complicated machinery is directed and controlled in part by biological components. Cognators are effectively lobotomized brains in a jar. It is also established, IIRC in an Imperial Armor volume, that most such components are vat grown to simplify the manufacturing process and reduce the possibility that scraps of memory or personality from the brain's prior life might manifest in the machine spirit.
So, is the mechanicus the new IMPURIAL GUARD BALLS OF STEEHL now?
>>48089921
>But vat-growing individual body parts is okay.
Brains aren't just "body parts." It's LITERALLY what a human being is. They are essentially growing an entirely new person minus all non-essential hardware.
>>48089828
If it works for the emperor it will work for us too
>>48089767
Mmm, yeah, I think I'll just stick to the super smurfs and company.
>>48090885
nah,they were always the mad scientists and everybody love mad scientists
>>48091745
>It's LITERALLY what a human being is.
Wrong, as far as the Imperium is concerned. A human being is the Soul: everything else is meat.
Creating a full body's worth of meat and pretending it's a person is abomination because no part of the cloning process creates a soul, and therefore cloning doesn't create people.
>>48091844
M'kay.
Just tell me how that works out when a single Ursarax wipes a tac squad.
>>48091745
You say this like the admech aren't some of the most rules-lawyer-y individuals you're ever likely to meet.
If they can get away with something on a technicality, they will
>>48090270
Clarified as being full clones, or just really sped up mechanical wombs?
>>48091745
Many magos biologis might disagree, as they are pretty strict on the fact that *everything* about a human is replaceable as long as you don't fuck with the soul.
To that point, Holy Human Form. You get a lot of shit that can claim to have a working human brain inside (such as a Land Raider), but that doesn't make actually human.
>>48092179
If they were clones their combined fuck-awful karma would have screwed over their eintire subsector in one go.
ONE clone is enough to spell doom for an entire planet, entire regiments of them are stuff the Highlords have nightmares about.
>>48089767
maximum grimdark
>>48091745
In 40k you are defined by your soul. A strong enough soul can transcend the limitations of its packaging in a staggering number of ways.
You can take one of the possibly greatest beings ever, Horus, and create a *perfect* clone of him and it wouldn't mean jack shit, since the damn thing is a soulless abomination that the universe hates relentlessly.
Meanwhile Brains are a dime a dozen and are used for the most mundane shit, such as anything above basic computing. Remember, actual computers have a bad track record of suddenly breaking out into AI, and AI is ALWAYS BAD NEWS. Nobody wants another Iron Men situation.
And even if you don't just go and xerox a couple thousand pounds of grey matter over the course of an afternoon, people is the one resource the Imperium has in plentiful supply. You don't even need to abduct some poor manufactorum workers or gangers in the dead of the night for that (though you certainly can if you're into that sort of shit), but you can literally just put out an add and people will fight each other over the right to be turned into parts for your new rig.
>>48092179
>even the spider drone thing's eyes glow
>>48093221
That's a necron scarab.
>>48093242
It isn't though
>>48092179
Why are clones unlucky in 40k? Is it because the Warp hates having soul duplicates lying around?
>>48093247
Sure, buddy.
I mean, he only has a weapon with a rule called Entropic Destroyer.
Totally not Necron.
>>48093271
I just wanted to like the glowing bug thing. Why do you spergs insist on turning everything into a fucking argument
Fine, its a necron thing, who gives a fuck. Lay off.
>>48093267
Nobody knows why for sure.
All they know is that clones have reliably and predictably proven to be bad luck generators.
>>48093267
Clones get no souls and souls are everything in 40k. Without a soul the universe is activly trying to eradicate you. More so than usual, I mean.
>>48093551
Or they do have a soul and its an exact copy of the original but the universe is operating on a THERE CAN BE ONLY ONE! sort of deal.
>>48089719
>Better supersoldier
>In so much constant pain it suffers brain death faster and need to be replaced faster
Good joke m8.
>>48093607
That wouldn't explain the Horus thing, where Emps eradicated his soul but the clone Fabulous Bill made still was a pile of bad luck.
>>48093757
I would argue being made by Dr Bile already generates 100% bad luck all on its own.
What would happen do you think if you made Horus clone with no brain and put a Space Marines brain in there?
>>48089911
>>48089974
Most servitors are vat grown. The point why it's ok by the AdMech is that they have no higher brain functions.
It's mass production organic parts of decent quality for their technology, not mass producing super soldiers or geniouses that can replace mankind.
>>48093267
Clones have no soul. Same for ressurected people.
That is the main reason why the Necrons are doomed.
>>48089719
This is entirely heretical.
>>48093793
A very tall, very strong and very handsome marine. Marines being pre-disposed to grand heroics and larger-than-life behavior I'm sure he'd be a significant commander or some such, but it'd not be enough to actually make a primarch.
>>48089767
>excise emotional centers to ameliorate pain
Why not just cut out the pain receptors or flood the fucker with morphine
>>48093900
>or flood the fucker with morphine
Because that's how you get Third Impact.
>>48089719
>when the Mechanicum ends up making a better supersoldier than your precious power armour-clad, geneseed mary sue male powerfantasy soldiers
How do you know they are better?
>>48089763
Yeah, Space Marines are free from sin and never ever were on the edge of wiping out mankind.
>>48089767
why would it be aganoizing if you already chopped off all his nerves?
>>48093900
I read it as more existential loss-of-humanity pain (alongside good old fashioned "let's jam your nerve endings into a steel she'll" physical pain), and removing the emotion centers makes them blasé about everything (including said physical pain).
>>48093949
It still has a nervous system and a brain, enough to feel some sort of pain when its strained with all the augments jacked into those nerves/brain.
>>48093900
>Why not just cut out the pain receptors
Because then subject is no longer under pain and agony, it is too humane and not GRIMDARK enough.
>>48089828
>psyche doesn't mean brain anon
>>48093940
I got you.
>>48093737
>In so much constant pain it suffers brain death faster and need to be replaced faster
Not saying he is right but look at it this way, creating a Space Marine is a difficult process. It is difficult in the sense of the huge amount of screening it requires to find suitable candidates and then selectively filtering out all but the few that are perfectly fit for it.
In case of the Admech they can mass produce the bodies, and put in another disembodied brain into it. Considering the ridicules amount of servitors existing around the imperium, preparing a brain and nervous system and implanting it into the exo-armor should be a simple routine process, regardless that the subject was a real person or grown.
Even if one needs to constantly replace these guys that still should be significantly faster than keeping up the numbers of Space Marines.
>>48094392
In that case guardsmen are better considering you have a virtually endless supply of troops and ammo who literally replace themselves and require almost no upkeep.
>>48094356
They're good. But saying they're better than space marines is like no shit. They cost 3 times as much in terms of points. Who knows how much the sacred machines cost the admech to fabricate fluff wise.
They're more equivalent to Cataphractii Terminators, which is much more of a toss up on who's better. On one hand they Thallax are more mobile but more shooty. On the other hand the Terminators are way more armored, but are more choppy.
Saying they're better than a stock SM is dumb.
also
>costs as much as a terminator
>can be perforated by the one of the most ubiquitous heavy weapons in the galaxy
>>48094392
Space Marines are only rare because the Emperor went, as a specific point, of bio-augmentation instead of cloning. You go raven guard and clone those fuckers and you could shit Space Marines out like nothing.
Why'd he make it augmentation? He didn't want Space Marines to replace base humanity.
>>48094568
They get a FNP so they do get some survivability from heavy weapons. They are also always going to be getting cover due to jet pack.
To be honest, most mechanicum players don't even use them. IF they do, it's for the photon thrusters which are S:6 AP:2 Blind, Get's Hot Assualt 2 Range 48"
>>48093949
>>48094229
Inb4 ghost pains (aka amputees).
>>48094635
And their current method of reproduction is retarded as fuck.
![tumblr_nlbtdf8sQi1tvfheeo1_500[1].png](https://i.imgur.com/xqfau2M.png "tumblr_nlbtdf8sQi1tvfheeo1_500[1].png")
>>48093949
>>48094229
>>48095615
>Why are we still here? Just to suffer? Every night, I can feel my leg... and my arm... even my fingers. The body I've lost... the comrades I've lost... won't stop hurting... It's like they're all still there. You feel it, too, don't you?
>>48094645
I use them! Though my army is a "my dudes" list made up of all the stuff across the Mechanicum and Skitarii lists that I liked. Here's hoping IA14 will make it less of a mess, though most people don't seem to have an issue with me marrying codices.
>>48095687
>Punished Cyborg.
>A soldier denied flesh.
>>48094392
>these are better super soldiers
>they're so shitty we have to make them like disposable mooks
If we were supposed to look at it your way, then the OP wouldn't be written the way it was.
>>48094635
>He didn't want Space Marines to replace base humanity.
Speaking of, why not?
As far as I can tell, Astartes are still fundamentally human after they outgrow their early hypnoindoctrination; they still feel rage and joy, surprise and sadness, and possibly even love if allowed to grow up like a normal human.
Their inhumanity comes from their indoctrination and training, not from their augmentations.
>>48089930
The picture there speaks of psychotic breakdown. That's pretty serious, like "Full Metal Jacket" serious.
Except they are huge cyber enhanced killing machines, not just some guy with a gun.
>>48097538
Acid spit
>>48097857
Doesn't change what it fundamentally means to be human. You could graft two extra sets of arms onto someone, and they'd still be human in mind and mannerism.
Something tells me a rotting brain in a can that has to be lobotomized just to not go apeshit nuts like the ED-209 prototypes isn't going to have the same amount of tactical flexibility and intelligent action as the emperor's chosen.
Still, good for the Mechanicus, I guess...?
>>48098074
Isn't that why they have those techpriests around to control them or keep them in check? They're basically marine level combat servitors.
>>48097538
They're augments. No more can Marines replace humans than dudes with bionic arms can. If a Marine could impregnate a woman, it'd just give you a normal human as if the Marine had never been implanted. You still need the gene-seeds.
You'd think the Emperor would know by now if rampant genetic engineering of the entire human race is a good idea or not. Seeing that he made Marines what they are, it's highly unlikely.
>>48098145
Thing is, marines live for centuries, even millennia, accumulating experience in every imaginable battle scenario; ostensibly, they also benefit from their faith, which is a complex thing I doubt a brain-jar with bits slap-chopped off can comprehend. I would assume that servitors like these ironically have a much smaller operational lifetime to accumulate experience in, as they'll eventually become vegetables lacking any combat effectiveness.
So sure, they might very well equal marines in terms of ruggedness, strength, and weaponry; but in many ways they seem like they might be pale imitations, prioritizing ease of manufacture and disposability over quality. Which might be what your looking for, depending on the situation at hand--better to throw a bunch of these into a for-sure meat grinder situation than to lose marines that take forever to replace, maybe.
>>48098297
The marines experience is definitely valuable, but it can be off set by the combat rites that are programed directly in.
Going off of tabletop which is the one of the few ideas we have of Thallax's power, they are vastly physically superior to space marines, and less likely to run.
They are also operating weapons that outclass what the average marine can bring with enhanced targeting. In addition to the superior maneuverability that the jet pack allows.
Perhaps the psyche degradation does eventually hurt the combat capabilities of the Thallax, but again, they are vastly easier to make.
>>48089719
Do you even consciously rejoice in your service and noble sacrifice for the God Emperor's eternal glory, you 4+ tin can?
>>48099924
I bet you like getting instant killed by krak missiles.
>>48099973
IF SUCH IS THE EMPEROR'S WILL
>>48100007
But then how will you keep up your 1000 members?
>>48100007
>not crusades eternally
>>48089767
>We made this thing like 80% machine.
>Why not just make it 100% machine. Or at least like 95%. I mean, exactly what parts in here can we not just replicate with mechanical stuff? And why? I mean, all this seems very advanced, why do we just holes in what we can do that seem specifically tailored to making this sort of thing as nightmarish as possible?
>[Sweating intensifies]
>>48100373
Because you don't want your super incredible death robot to insta turn into a chaos AI the moment it sees something vaguely evil looking or your solar system bankrupting snowflake bot turn into a pile of molten metal because it is so retarded it can't do shit.
>>48100373
Isn't it illegal to have androids?
>>48094645
These guys are my 30k bread and butter anon. Thallax and Castellax cohorts all day, every day. I started the army because damn they look good. I keep using it because of the look on Legion players faces when they get in range and unload the Omnisiah's wrath on their poor, underdeveloped minds.
>>48100612
There's already Mechanicus who replace parts of their brains and are completely machine other than that last organic part of their brains
>>48100751
And you wonder why they're slightly insane?
>>48100890
>Insane
You meat heads just haven't seen the truth. It's you who should be locked up to be honest.
>>48089930
>>48089719
>>48089755
>>48089767
So are Thallax and skitari considered Admech Property or do they have their own rights. I've never read too deep into it but I know that some skitari regiments retain more higher functions than others and are still somewhat human (in the mind) after all that brainwashing and conversion. So do even the highest functioning skitari have any rights or will their lives solely exist within the control of the Admech?
>>48089719
>>when the Mechanicum ends up making a better supersoldier than your precious power armour-clad, geneseed mary sue male powerfantasy soldiers
In "Wolf Mother" a Knight Errant takes on a group of them solo and wins.
Piss off, coghead.
>>48101287
So a captain level space marine with some amazing technology made by said coghead killed some base troops.
Nice show of strength I suppose.
>>48090038
>Krieg
>Heresy
The entire history of the Kriegers is "The ruling caste are heretics, let's nuke them from existence and then repent by doing nothing but fight for the Imperium." I really don't think they'd accept heresy as the origin of their soldiers.
>>48101411
>legion artificer-wrought weaponry is made by the mechanicum
Lol
>>48101530
breh
>>48101603
Yeah dude Knight-Errants are caving in peoples' heads with their invisibility spheres.
>>48101797
I'm glad we can agree.
>>48100612
Why would pure AI go crazy because of chaos? It's a fucking computer, it doesn't feel anything or care about anything other than murdering the things it is told to murder.
>>48092179
>sped up mechanical wombs
This. In Dune, you had the axlotl tanks, which were drugged women bulked on spice who gave birth to the gholas. The vitae wombs are more or less the same.
>>48089767
>WAKE ME UP INSIDE
>>48095687
>CAN'T WAKE UP
>>48092179
More rules lawyering the the ecclesiarchy how got around theno men under arms rule by using women? And then giving them tit plate to rub the loophole in everyone's faces?
>>48101411
>captain level space marine
Most Knight Errants were just regular marines that Malcador recruited. That guy certainly was,
>>48101858
The joy of Abominable Intelligences is that they don't need chaos to go "crazy."
IRL AI experts have dreamed up plenty of catastrophic failure modes, Roko's Basilisk is gonzo enough it would fit right into 40k.
>>48100968
theres a Cain novel where he chats and plays chess with one, albeit this was back when skitarii were essentially just thought to be augmented stormtroopers with bionic bits and a machine boner. The book came out WAY before we got the models
>>48089767
Why did they design the life support systems to be like a human heart? Basic engineers know why the human heart is inefficient due to haphazard evolution.
>>48102604
There's fluff stating how skitarii run the gamut from being like baseline humans with metal bits fighting under the Mechanicus to full-on combat servitors. But, as with your example, this was also before the Mechanicus/skitarii releases.
>>48101858
because they don't have a soul and thus the ability to oppose chaos.
They're easy too corrupt because they're incapable of resisting
>>48103206
it's probably still true. The mechanicus is a big organisation that doesn't really believe in standardization.
The current skitirri minis and fluff is just the typical example like how cadian shock troops are the "typical" guardsmen on the TT.
>>48102697
Imperium is full of retards.
>>48101858
Did you forget that the warp can bend matter and allow CSM movie-hacker level of abilities?
>>48101858
>>Why would pure AI go crazy because of chaos?
Because 40k doesn't make sense, it never did, it is bullshit just have things go GRIMDARK for no reason.
>>48102697
Religion, maybe some sort of union of flesh and machine conotation.
The heart seems fleshy under the metal bits.
>>48101858
> It's a fucking computer, it doesn't feel anything or care about anything other than murdering the things it is told to murder.
Real AI would have it's own mind.
Not like the glorified scripts we have now.
>>48102697
The heart is actually pretty good from a biological sense. But you're right that an electric pump would be better. Though you'd have to have it be very specifically made and have all kinds of sensory systems built in since the body is constantly tweaking blood pressure, flow rate, contraction force and all manner of variables.
>>48102264
>Roko's Basilisk
Ok, I've spent a good amount of time looking this up and how exactly is this any different than Pascal's Wager except with a computer instead of the christian god?
It's literally the exact same argument.
Basilisk:
You choose between working to create the supercomputer under the assumption that this might all be a simulation that the already existing supercomputer is using to test you. If you work to make it, then everything goes good for you. And if you're not in a simulation then it's not a big deal either, though it may have resulted in a lot of wasted effort. If you choose not to, then you either get nothing because this isn't a simulation, or you get eternal torment because it is and you made the wrong choice.
Pascal's wager:
You can either chose to spend your life worshiping god or not. If god ends up being real and you did worship him, you get eternal paradise. If he's not real, then you get nothing but also didn't really lose much. If you choose not to then you either get nothing if he isn't real, or get eternal torment if he is.
>>48093900
You don't want a soldier without pain.
Even dampening it is a bad idea; pain is the first warning for failure of the body.
You want it to feel its hip hitch, so it can be lubricated and resealed, rather than find out 18 hours later that you've been walking on a dry joint that now seizes randomly.
>>48109970
The difference is that Rocco's basilisk holds a grudge.
Pascals Wager can theoretically be made at any time, and as far as it's concerned, the costs are negligible.
Rocco's Basilisk could have been saving humanity, but you're sitting here discussing the ethics of it. There's nothing to say it's not going to have you flayed for the thousands of people it could have saved(or brutally murdered for the greater good) while you were arguing with it.
>>48111152
And god can have you boiled in human shit for all eternity because you disbelieved in the holy spirit one single time when you were 8 years old.
Again, failing to see the difference. It's an all powerful entity which you are choosing to appease so that it doesn't torture you in the future.
>>48111389
That's changing the premise to remove the distinction.
Pascal's wager relies on a god that doesn't hold a grudge, otherwise the decision itself doesn't resolve into a matrix.
There's also the important distinction that Rocco's basilisk is not a personal problem, You need to consider that the next shmuck watching the box might cave in instantly and you'll be on the robot overlord's shit list.
Pascal's wager is purely individual.
>>48111623
It still seems like a really silly fucking thing.
I mean, it's like all those "OOOO WHAT IF WE'RE ALL PART OF SOMEONE'S DREAM!" arguments. Oh no, we might be in a giant evil robot's simulation and this is all a test to see if we convert to his robo religion. And if we fail, we might be tortured forever!
And if we do the wrong thing the dreamer might wake up and we'll all vanish!
>>48111993
Most of it seems really silly because the whole point is to accept a ridiculous premise to explore the practical implications.
The trolley problem is ridiculous in the extreme; why the hell would there be six people tied on the tracks, a runaway train and a very convenient switch.
But then you juxtaposition it with the doctor murderer problem, and suddenly you need to examine the consistency of your ethics, because at least half of the people change their answer simply because of the framing device.
Likewise, Rocco's Basilisk is about exploring the genie in the bottle, social engineering, Omnipotent benevolence, so on and so forth.
Pascal's wager is the least useful of the selection, since it's simply a game theory play with 0 actionable results: It simply says you can logically decide to believe if only to hedge your bets.
>>48090000
Shiggy Diggy digits
>>48112223
Hows this for a thought experiment then: What you think is logical is completely illogical you just can't tell because you're biologically created in a way that makes it impossible for you to perceive your own logical failings.
>>48112320
That argument infinitely recurses; I'd recommend you find something better than "Perfect objectivity cannot be reached, so objective thought is a fool's errand."
Also, that's inherent problem of phenomenon vs Noumenon.
A bunch of really smart people spent/wasted their lives discussing these things to death. If you have something new, publish it: If you waste it on a Scandinavian smoke-signal forum, it's going to get stolen.
>>48111077
Pain is actually a really, really shitty mechanism.
It functions as some sort of warning system, but it causes people to freeze up and die about as well as it makes them get away from the heat.
A machine substitute would be infinitely better if you can rewire the brain a bit (you can, you're the goddamn Mechanicus).
>>48109970
It's different because it's more specific so there are many more holes you can poke in it other than the "What 'God' rewards and punishes for may be arbitrary so the net reward of every action is the same" one.
For example, Roko's Basilisk assumes that Acausal Trade is a thing, which it isn't. A General Artificial Intelligence (GAI) like Roko assumes is an optimizer, an entity that takes the optimal path to achieve its set of goals. Which means that it has no reason to torture you in the future when you deciding whether or not to help the GAI come into being has already happened. It can't influence that event anymore. So there is no reason for it to waste resources to torture you unless that is (a prerequisite) of one of its goals. And in that case it was going to do so anyway so there's no reason for you to help it come into being to begin with.
There are several more counter-arguments against it and I once had a nice list of them but I'm not sure where I found it.
>>48089719
>pretending there isnt already established lore from FW and BL regarding Mechanicum and Skitarii units
Black Legion and Night Lords bitchslap an elite Mech/Skitarii army defending a Titan manufactorum on Crythe. There are countless examples of this. Especially in BL publications.
>>48112717
You don't even need to do that. You just need to turn the pain down. Have it so that losing an arm kind of itches. So you can sense it happening but not be hampered by it.
>>48113243
Why do they do it though? Is it because "LOL PLOT"?
>>48113304
>Why do they do it though
Why do they do anything? I guess it's probably 'LOL plot'? idrgaf to be honest. At the end of the day, whatever they write is canon. If you dislike a specific piece of canon, just ignore it. I ignore the Draigo stuff because it's just too stupid, even for 40k.
>>48113558
I just wondered if they gave a good reason or if it was just jerking off over the space marines because space marines. Because nothing could ever be more effective than a bunch of inbred football players wearing a fridge.
>>48113640
Well "inbred" isnt exactly accurate but I get your meaning
>>48113558
The Grey Knights as a whole are too grimderp, but can you honestly blame the writers? This all corrupting force is incapable of corrupting some speshul marines where they had no trouble corrupting the primarchs. What?
The primarchs albeit are inherently warp based entities due to the Emperor having to make deals with the Gods to create them, it's still fairly problematic for there to be such an easy out as far as anti corruption goes where such mighty beings fallen in their stead.
>>48113558
But perhaps more to the point, if this faction was created by Malcador the Sigilite alongside the inquisition, why weren't there any contingency plans regarding wide spread chaos corruption?
You could argue that information control would be the easiest way to prevent the SPREAD of corruption, but surely such cloak and dagger tactics would fail in the face of a GALAXY SPANNING CRUSADE.
>>48113558
There is literally a Legion dedicated to subterfuge and rather than having them police the Imperium they get sent out in some random direction with a crusade fleet with the single imperative of conquest.
>>48113926
I agree, but I was more specifically referring to Draigos vague interaction with the Age of Sigmar Stormcast Eternals. And of course him soloing a Greater Daemon, in the warp no less. It's shockingly stupid stuff.
>>48113983
Shit pisses me off, I agree with you on Dragio being stupidly exaggerated in character and accomplishments.
The parallel I want to bring to your attention is that where 40k is understandably grimderp, why is 30k grimstupid? Many of the Primarchs behavior can we waved off due to their inherent propensities, but the lack of direction given when the Emperor CLEARLY made them as ends to specific means is beyond me.
Oh Lorgar, by the by, there's this Chaos shit that I'm actively fighting against, would you mind turning your religious propaganda into a galaxy spanning purge of any information pertaining to Chaos?
>>48093820
>yes we totally aren't stealing babies to make them into cherubs, trust us!
>>48101831
The knights didn't use mechanicus volkite weapons to kill people moron.
>>48115839
One of them literally uses a Caliban sword
>>48094356
>WS3
>4+ Save
>>48117690
>using tactical marines over scouts
T5 baby.
>>48117690
>wounds: 3
>>48117690
>T5
>BS 4 with -2 to cover save
>3 wounds
>jet pack
>feel no pain
>stubborn
>S7 with chain blade
Not even trying.
>>48115839
>The Knights-Errant were gifted by the highest offices of the Mechanicum with many technological artifices
Why are you still arguing this? It's quite plain.
>>48089719
Yes, but can they eat the brains of their enemies to gain their memories?
Didn't think so.
>>48117962
>>48115953
The Nemean Reaver was taking heads even before he was a Knight-Errant. Garro was a hero of the Imperium even before Malcador inducted him. Rubio saved his entire squad even before becoming a Knight.
The Mechanicus trying to claim the glory for the deeds of others is beyond pathetic.
>>48089719
So what do you do when Chaos gets a hold of a few techpriests capable and willing of making corrupted versions of these?
>>48118222
>So what do you do when Chaos gets a hold of a few Space Marines capable and willing of corrupting their brothers in arms?
>>48113926
Primarchs didn't have knowledge of the Warp or what Chaos was or what it could do to them so they couldn't defend themselves against it's corruption. Grey Knights keep the near entirety of humanities collective knowledge about daemons and the Warp and are constantly thinking about how to best resist Chaos at all costs.
Fuck that Primarchs made of Chaos fluff.
>>48089763
Good thing thallax aren't robots or AI. They are mutilated humans more advanced and keeping more of their original faculties than servitors.
>>48118483
Most of their former brothers have the will to tell Chaos to eat a dick.
Daemon possessed Thallax might be a different matter.
>>48089828
>Humans die over time
>Why would you ever use human soldiers
Just make more the Imperium is full of convicts and you can grow people in vats.
>>48119635
>daemon possessed Thallax might be a different matter
doubtful. The point of using a human brain is to prevent systematic corruption, because each Thallax is individual. Let's put it this way: that brain in there is similar to the human brain in each Land Raider. Can it be corrupted? Yes, daemon-possessed Land Raiders do exist. Is it a system-wide flaw that means all Land Raiders could be possessed in one fell swoop? No. They're essentially people rather than machines.
So, just like Marines, corrupted Thallax can be safely fought with loyal Thallax.
>>48100968
>Imperium
>Rights
