Is it That Guy to have a You Fail You Lose spell as your main answer to combat? Whether it's sleep, mind control, an incredible urge to flee or an instant death spell?
And no, it's not just DnD that has this kinda thing. The Dominate discipline in WoD for example.
It really depends on the tone of the game. Recent D&D editions have actually moved away from you-fail-you-lose because they're somewhat anticlimatic, but they're essential to 2e because high-level mage combat would often end up as a series of erecting and dismissing magical defenses just so you could actually get that YFYL spell through.
It being the first and main answer does make things get dull, but if you have to fight tooth-and-claw just to actually cast that spell, it can be quite exciting.
I personally don't like them, but there's nothing inherently wrong with them.
>>48025602
No, That Guy is something completely different.
>>48025704
If you want an answer to your question, OP, read this.
Read this and note that it only talks about one mage vs. his enemy, another mage. Nobody else in the party is worth mentioning.
>>48025602
Depends on your group and your GM.
Good group and good GM? Keep light on those spells.
Medicore group and GM with an agenda? Torch the fucking world down.
>>48027228
Because mages are all that matters in games that give magic anywhere near the level of YFYL magic.
If you want something else go find some weebshit RPG to jerk off to.
>>48027875
Yes, because classical mythology is sooo weeb.
Retard.
>>48027919
classic mythology argument is the biggest crock of shit you morons toss around; classic heros were invariable blessed by gods (cleric/paladin/etc) or were gods/demigods themselves (divine template).
Arguing that base off the street characters should have either of these is moronic.
>>48025602
"save or lose" is just kind of boring. In most systems, it's single-target, so it's not good for mooks, and it's either anticlimatic to use it on the antagonist, or they're straight up immune.
>>48025602
They're not That Guy, they're just boring. Either every enemy worth using them against is immune to them, in which case there's no point in having them, or every enemy worth using them against dies on the spot, in which case it's anticlimactic as fuck.
>>48025602
There's a reason that even D&D hasn't seriously used save-or-lose for a decade.
>>48027980
Same with mage, you little shit
Merlin is a half demon, Circee is a fucking goddess and Gandalf is akin to an angel.
The only mage who are not special snowflake are from moden fantasy litterature, you twat.
>>48029170
>Merlin is a half demon
[Citation needed]
>>48029170
That's not really saying anything other than "You need magic to be big in myth", which is what you were initially trying to argue against.
>>48029337
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Robert_de_Boron#cite_note-GoodrichLacy2003-2
In the early days, he wasn't. But then, when the French took over the Arthurian legends, he became an half demon.
That's also how the grail and lancelot got involved.
>>48029372
That's saying "you have a double standard"
If you want every warrior and mage to be a special snowflake, I'm fine with it.
>>48029170
Sorcerer bloodlines cover that aspect of magic casting, and magic through pacts (which you fail to mention) is represented through warlocks and their similar types.
Clerics of course account for most legendary supernatural feats by humans, and are appropriately similar in their fantasy representations.
Arcane mages are fairly odd out, though in design they are much like witches with the demonic aspects scraped off (rituals and spells using bizarre combinations of materials to produce a magical effect).
remove the arcanists if you want, but that doesn't change the absolute necessity of inhuman supernatural influence for mythical feats.
>>48029337
>In the work, titled Historia regum Britanniae ("History of the Kings of Britain", c. 1137), Geoffrey of Monmouth wrote that he was a son of a nun and grandson of the King of Demetia in southern Wales. As to his father, he was either a devil or an incubus. Merlin is a paradox, he was the son of the devil, yet he was the servant of God.
>>48029443
>(which you fail to mention)
You fail to mention people who bind spirits aswell, so what?
Yet, there is usually nothing to give warriors supernatural or inhuman strength.
And everything to give caster power.
>>48029443
And oh, yeah, the "it's moronic to give them that!"
Achilles was plunged in the Styx when he was a baby.
Why the sorcerer can be the great-great-great-grandson of a dragon and inherit magical power to dominate everything, yet the warrior can't make a skinny dip in the styx when he was a child?
>>48027228
>Read this and note that it only talks about one mage vs. his enemy, another mage. Nobody else in the party is worth mentioning.
That's because it was specifically about high-level mage combat.
The other classes do play a part in high-level combat, including appropriately timed disruptions to opponent mages as well as forcing them to erect defenses against them (at the cost of using actions and slots defending against magic), while contending with the other non-mages.
High Level 2e D&D combat is a headache that takes years to become proficient in, which is also why people wound up organizing combat tourneys to really test their skills out on each other.
>>48029520
Nobody is saying that a warrior can't dolphin-dive through as many magical rivers as they want, but they're not a pure mundane warrior once they have.
>>48029520
Achilles was half-god.
>>48029724
And? Wizards obviously have some sort of supernatural heritage to be able to cast a fireball spell without exploding. Low level magic is fine since you can master it with study, but beyond level 2 or 3 the spells become too powerful for mortal bodies to handle. Same goes with fighter classes.
I'd been toying with the idea of making the martial classes be 'The Hero' with all that entails instead, instead letting the town guard, bandits and other minor npcs use the standard martial classes.
It makes sense in my eyes at least, the party are the protagonists in the story there should be something separating that from random npc #327.
I'm not entirely sure how I'd go about implementing it though.
>>48029686
I'm so tired of this mundane warrior nonsense especially when it relates to games like D&D and its many clones
First off once you introduce any fantasy element to a setting it is no longer mundane
And secondly it can in no possible way be considered mundane to tank any attack a Dragon can throw at youAnd before anyone brings up "hit points aren't meat points" you can also survive falling off a cliff with no ill effects and no matter how you tuck and roll a 100ft drop is still a 100ft dropfantasy warriors are only as shit as the game designers/authors/dumb shit fans make them
I'm not saying fighters need to be cutting mountains and fucking reality like wizards but you can't have a game with "dude with sharpened stick" and "virtual demigod" unless one of those isn't playable
>>48029840
What part of that involves mundane people accomplishing great deeds relying only on the peaks of the human condition?
That's the appeal of the fighter. There are magical warrior classes, but the fighter's the one who has ended up embodying the idea of the character who excels at his dedication to their martial training and discipline, and can compete with the other classes based solely on that.
While that hasn't really been true in the previous editions due to mechanical issues, in 5e the fighter not only is on par with the other classes in combat, the two non-magical fighter variants are among the best in the game. Though they may fall short in terms of utility outside of combat, the more improvisational system that relies heavily on ability scores (which fighters tend to have the best in the group) leaves them able to fulfill the niche of "This guy has no special heritage, no special gifts, but through hard work has achieved great power."
>>48029970
This is a great idea personally I have always tried to differentiate player from npcs as much as possible
My Role-playing philosophy has always been that the players are a cut above everyone else with power and abilities far beyond those of mortal men instead of just random shmucks
>>48030186
Nah. If you wanna max out at level 5 be my guest. Just add in some heritage if you want a fighter level 6 or up.
>>48030007
B-but I want to prove that intelligence and hard study will always triumph over brute strength!
>>48030726
>>48029840
Here is an interesting article that touches on the whole superhuman past level 5 thing
http://thealexandrian.net/wordpress/587/roleplaying-games/dd-calibrating-your-expectations-2
>>48030998
Most classical heroes of myth were just as clever as they were strong.
Especially Greek heroes, those guys beat most mythological creatures just by out-thinking them or tricking them into doing something damaging to themselves.
>>48031650
>Especially Greek heroes
When your whole pantheon is made dickbags that try to screw mortals over at every turn, one can't really become hero without being able to keep up.
>>48030998
>Spotted the cuck.
>>48031474
That's actually a very interesting article.
3.PF is still dogshit but a lot of what he says does make sense once he explains why things are the way they are.
