first for prunes edition

First for MEMEnoth.

Can I use Amon Ad-Raza and 7 castigators throw my opponents Jacks/ Beasts out of the way followed by throwing Amon at their caster .

>>48025190
I guess? Why not just punch them to death instead of going with a wonky plan that will probably fall apart?

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>Bane Knights losing weapon master for brutal charge is a buff

>>48025420
I don't think I've ever hear anyone argue that.

They'd be dead wrong if they did.

>>48025524
>>48025420
It's a buff to other factions
checkmate nerds

>>48025190
Just run 8 Crusaders and kill everything.

So, aren't we supposed to get the errata today?

>>48025782
>it'll just read: "MK3 was a joke"

>>48025817
>E-Early April fools guys!
>Real Mk3 will be out in two months

>>48025849
I would die of laughter.

>>48025719
>8 crusaders
No thanks. I don't want to spend 3 rounds killing a single unit of kriel warriors

>>48026367
>implying people play trolls in Mk3

There aren't enough single-wound medium-base models for the Castigator to shine over the Crusader when spammed.

>>48025420
It's a negligible nerf since they also went down in cost.

>>48026590
It's not a nerf. It's a rebalance.

Portip guide to buffs, nerfs, and rebalances:

Buff: Something goes up

Nerf: Something goes down

Re-balance: Things go up and down

anyone have a link to the trollblood deck pdf?

in return, all the other pdfs:

https://drive.google.com/folderview?id=0B5OHGgAx7q66NUdvUFp3LWVQRlE&usp=drive_web

>>48026708
Units in other factions only got better, so Cryx units getting re-balanced means they got nerfed by default.

Legion player here. I haven't had the time to read through all the changes; can anyone tell me how do the following beasts fare with the new rules?
(They're my favourite models and I'd love to keep using them/start using them more)
>Raek
>Teraph
>Nephilim Soldier and Protector
>Archangel

>>48026745
>units in other factions only got better
false

>>48026745
Cryx has been better in everything all along, so shut your bitchy hole.

>>48026717
https://drive.google.com/open?id=0B6l_teF11vkBazlBNkJfeUJ0YXM

I got the leaks only.

Please feel free to update your folder.

Khardic. Jetpacks. When?

>>48027224
When PP jumps the shark again.

>>48027035
Wow, you're a salty cunt this morning.

>>48027355
>salty cunt
>Cryx player

No need to be redundant, anon.

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>>48027035
I detect large amounts of sodium, likely a buildup from lachrymation as a result of approximately 3,300 newtons of force applied directly to the posterior.

The changes Cryx took were mostly nerfs but there WERE a few buffs. Especially their jacks, the vast majority of which are strictly better or vastly improved. I for one am very pleased that the Shrike is now worth taking.

>>48025420
As a change its a net zero, imo since on the charge the damage is comprable. Less oppertunities for spikes.

The free strike and vengence damage is less, however you can more easily get backstrike bonuses I guess. For me the damage on vengence was always a plus, I really am more interested in the movement

>>48027448
Its a spray that needs a landing zone.

>>48026903
>>48026903
Raek is neat. Got extended control range. Animus grants counter-charge.
I heae archangel is usable now but i dont own one so i havent looked. Soldier is still crap even if he's just 9 points. Protector is stepping into shedders place as auto include to keep casters safe, still have safeguard but also got guarddog. No idea about teraph.

>>48027448
I look forward to seeing Venethrax jack spam.

Bags and bags of TERMINAL VELOCITY.

>>48027702
Really sad to see Mortenebrah lose that.

Tell me please, dear anons, the date of MK III release is today June 29 or not?

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>>48027665
It's not perfect, but it's ridiculously accurate now and I've had some fantastic games with it using the Witch Coven- Infernal Machine makes it SPD 9 giving it a 12 inch trample that rolls 4 dice to hit. It helps to be able to cut a medium-base sized line through someone's infantry block that I can ghost walk a scavenger through. Plus, if I can line up the trample over a solo or UA I can boost the damage since it tramples for free.

Is the shrike the best? no. However now it's actually good at what it is supposed to do.

>>48027741
Yes, my store apparently got at least a third of the distributor's entire stock of the new battle boxes (which are really fucking good), by which I mean he managed to get about 4 copies of each box. Several dozen to a hundred stores ordered a few hours too late on the first day and got nothing.

>>48026903
>Raek
Same cost, statline, weapons
Gained Extended Control Range (control range x2 regarding this beast)
Traded 2 cost parry animus for 'still as death' a 1 cost, SELF counter charge animus.

>Teraph
Lost a point of speed,
Blight blast gained two inches of range and an inch of AOE, now has critical cont. fire
Gained a bite initial attack 0.5RNG 11P+S
Tailstrike gained critical poison

>Nephilim Soldier
0.5 Mk2 points cheeper
Lost a point of strength
Massacre animnus is now cheeper and SELF and grants overtake
Weapon gained precision strike (choose column damage goes into)

>Nephilim Protector
Lost Set Defense of Halberd
Traded Safeguard animus for Ornery 1 cost SELF gains Retaliatory Strike (if hit by enemy melee during opponents turn, get a basic melee against that model)
Traded Shield Guard for Guard Dog (while within 3 of warlock while not KD or stat warlock gains parry and +2DEF vs melee and cannot be back struck)

Archangel
1.5 mk2 points cheaper
Gained a SPD and RAT
Dragon Breath is ROF d3+1 instead of being the strafe special attack (no long requiring targeting nearby models, just d3+1 initials)
All melee weapons now RNG2
Animus now 1 cost instead of 2
Traded Ride By for Deceptively Mobile (essentially reposition 3")

>>48027871
>All melee weapons now RNG2
Sorry, forgot that colossal/gargant weapons were always 2" anyways.

>>48027871
Many thanks good sir

>>48027702
Its p great.

(Morghoul 1) Master Tormentor Morghoul [+30]
- Bronzeback Titan [18]
- Titan Gladiator [14]
- Agonizer [7]
Tyrant Zaadesh [4]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
- Cyclops Brute [8]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (min) [5]
Swamp Gobbers Bellows Crew [2]
Orin Midwinter, Rogue Inquisitor [5]
Mortitheurge Willbreaker [4]
Paingiver Bloodrunner Master Tormentor [4]

Just memed all over someone hard with this. Admittedly it was a Khador player whose only heavy was a Behemoth that he left a little too close to my Bronzeback, but threatening an entire flank with Zaadesh and his Brutes felt good. Fortunately the person who did terrain dumped a forest in the middle of the battlefield that I could drop a smoke cloud next to and approach behind. Also, the Master Tormentor is fucking filthy if you can get it inside a forest that's near small infantry. You can hide over 3" inside so can't be seen, then in your turn Apparition forward and charge out of the forest. The Bronzeback is shit but there's nothing better if you actually want to hit your target consistently.

>>48026717
I've wanted this shit for fucking weeks but since I got the Mk3 update for WHAC, you can fuck off with your awful timing.

>>48029113
I thought WHAC was still updating?

>>48029230
charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk

>>48029238
>charbon-et-charentaise.org/blog/content/app-release.apk
so... never done this before.

where do I drop it in my phone?

>>48029319
If you're on android, just download and open. You'll have to turn on allowing third-party apps first.

I have not used that link, so I can't tell you if it's a virus or something.

>>48025111
>OP is literally mindbreak
have some decency, man!

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Quality app.

Also, has anyone had any luck with getting War room 2 to cooperate between iOS and Android? I have the decks purchased on my ipad, but the purchases aren't showing up on my android phone.

am i allowed to come out of the shadows with my khador now without having to play butcher3 or sorscha?

>>48029677


Yeah khadors in a good spot now

>>48029776
>Best faction in the game

>>48029677
If you like Vlad, you are in for a good time.

>>48029776
>>48029802
irusk 2 / karchev good now? haven't gotten around to reading the core rules yet, just playing around in the army builder reading cards

>>48029811
which vlad? i enjoyed 1 and always wanted to try 3, but hated vlad2 playstyle

>>48029826
Vlad 3 is still not in great shape, Vlad1 is in a good place now and Vlad2 this edition is just insane.

Irusk 2 is in a good place now like Vlad1, Karchev has improved massively but I'm not sure he is going to be tourny worthy.

>>48029826
Karchev is playable, but I don't think they pair well at all.

>>48029905
>>48029914
I'm not really a tourney guy, the cryx faggots around my area made them unbearably boring during mk2. I just like to play fun casters.

what makes vlad2 so great this time around?

>>48029949
Vlad2 has free upkeep, Thresher and Righteous Vengeance gained. He now has lost defensive strike. MoK activates sooner and Assail costs 1 less.

>>48029949
upkeep removals are weaker so he's not losing transference or hand of fate not anytime soon. gained a free upkeep with great power.

The overboost mechanic change also means that he can willy nilly boost with transference with less fear.

>>48029826
Irusk2 is probably the best caster in the game.

Was that female mechanic Mercenary a Lock n Load exclusive, as in not for general release?

>>48031027
The lock and load model was an esclusive alternate sculpt; Colbie is getting a regular release at some point.

>>48031027
She's a general release that's really far away.

She's not even that good.

>>48031027
Sculpt was, she's get another one for general release.

Convergence player here, I'm a bit of a newbie to the game so take out your worst insults.

What do people think about Lucant this edition? Watcher... got changed, not exactly nerfed or buffed from my perspective, but it works more as intended I suppose.
The Purification change... eh, a lot harder to put at work, but I suppose I've seen worse.
Deflection feels... bad, but probably it's just because I'm salty about paying 3 focus for +2 defense.

>>48031176
Lucant is still good. purification honestly wasn't a big deal on him and the replacement only misses out on continuous effects, something he cares very little about.

>>48031176
no insults here, brother

Watcher took a strict nerf- previously it did not expire if you moved but did not make an attack, so you could have a warjack move an absurd distance before making that initial attack if something triggered the spell many times.

I agree with you on Deflection- I feel it is a very big downgrade. Most models in Convergence couldn't care less about +2 DEF- our average is 10-12 for Vectors and infantry and there is minimal difference between DEF 10 and DEF 12.

I would disagree with >>48031215 in that Purification seems like a big deal- having to remove upkeeps with the melee weapons of your warjacks is vastly inferior.

I think Lucant went from one of our best casters to one of our worst. Might be a good time to try out someone else.

So is menoth still playable?

>>48027871
>>48026903

Raek also lost an 1" on its tail, down to 1" range.

>>48031491
Oh darn, that is bad.

>>48030911
Eeeerrr. Hmm. He seems good but when I think of S rank I think of casters that broke fundamental ways the game was supposed to be played. Like ridiculous power skew, or stupid comboes.

A rank for sure but Im not sure if thats worth the title of the best.

>>48031319
It's a jack-heavy edition. Menoth is still the best non-CoC faction at running jacks. Menoth is good now and people will bitch about them incessantly once the Revelator hits.

>>48031571
He has a shooting buff, he has a defensive buff, he has a damage buff, his one shitty nuke actually pastes stealth solos from miles away, his feat is also one of the few things left in the game that doesn't give a fuck about forests.

The new focus system means that he can spend nearly his entire stack and still be fine with 1 or 2 camp.

Irusk is basically new Haley 2.

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>>48031578
>people will bitch about them incessantly once the Revelator hits.
Its going to be pretty degenerate

>>48031663
what kind of list do you build? 2 jacks + pikeman blob?

>>48031682
Behemoth's all you need, pikemen, Kayazy, riflecorp with rocketeers.

Redpill me on Minions, fa/tg/uys. I'm a noob Gator player, and I'd rather not have to buy a ton of pigs to play competitively. Is there still a way I can run almost entirely gators??

>>48031975

Yes... run almost entirely gators.

The amalgamated faction thing is a windfall to existing minions players, but Gators are still good.

So apparently what passes for optimism in Skorne is "wait for the Themes".

>this isn't how you add new players guys

>>48025420
Who cares? The wm spam playstyle is dead in mk3 for everyone. It's not like you'll be seeing doomies or exemplars in top tournament spots. Too much shooting around and not enough points to spam infantry.

>>48031176
>>48031215
>>48031304
Lucant took some hits, but he still feels pretty good.

Deflection I was pretty annoyed with, but at the same time, it's giving Lucant some game against stuff he didn't have before. It puts 90% of your stuff in that 7s to hit range against a lot of debuff casters, which forces a boost, and for players still running magic denial like Druids or Kittens, it takes you from 6s to 8s a lot of the time, which is incredibly useful.

Watcher did take a straight nerf, but I can't say I can complain too much. The kind of bullshit you could pull with Watcher was absolutely absurd against melee heavy armies, and given Lucant's already built in ranged hate, it was pretty disgusting.

Dissolution doesn't feel too bad, all things said. Corollary can knock enemy upkeeps off your shit with little issue, and while it doesn't help against DEF boosting upkeeps, it's benefits against the now more common ARM buffs are great.

What I'm trying to figure out right now is how Lucant benefited from the jack changes. Galvanizers especially: bringing 5 galvanizers instead of a full unit of Recips + Foundries is now cheaper, and there's a lot of benefits to doing so. It's a question of the meta shake out: Will their ARM16/22 Boxes be enough that you only lose 1-2 of them on the way in, or will your opponent just cream them?

Mostly now, Lucant has to be much more careful in how he pops his feat. Before you could just depend on Decel to get you there, and pop when you were already in their faces, but with the gunlines now, I don't know if that's really possible anymore. Of course, if those gunline lists take a hit, then Lucant will come out shining, so who knows.

>>48032107
Am I the only Skorne player who doesn't feel weak right now?

>>48031663
Yep, mk3 Khador is basically mk2 Cryx pre eGaspy/eDenny nerf.

>>48032195

Shit, it'd be better if they'd just fake it for a little while even if so. It is something of a deathspiral when it gets going.

>>48031663
>Irusk is basically new Haley 2
No he's not. Aside from power up he's shittier than he was in mk2.

>feat doesn't stop charges or orders
>no pathfinder spell
>no going through models on artifice
No ways to outplay anything anymore. Just assemble a big brick and hope you roll your tough checks.

Khador is top tier faction in mk3, but Irusk2 is far from best caster in it.

>>48032141
Riddle me this:
Why did the faction with the best gunlines/jackspam also keep the best wm infantry?

>>48032107
That's about the only thing other than some magic releases unlocking the faction.

Right now Skorne bricks pretty well between arm23 heavies after agonizer and Orin helping with control a bit. That's basically caster independent.

>>48032282
I would argue that Ret has the best gunlines, and Convergence has the best jack spam.

>>48032195
That depends, how often do you play into eKreuger or Harbinger? Those are more mk2 silver bullets, but some of the gun lines from ret, Cygnar, and khador look pretty back breaking

>>48032287

There's the option for in-faction gunlines now. Venators got good, or at least well-costed.

What exactly do you think is the best WM infantry? Doomies are good at mass Carnage but Banes and Knights Exemplar are better at smashing a heavy. I haven't seen them on the table yet but Knights Exemplar with that new UA looks really scary.

Am I the only Rhulic and Menoth player who feels confident about the changes our factions received?

>>48031680

You're a rude dude anon.

does anyone make fan Warcasters?

I made a few based on myself and my friends

Cryx
>Private Sage
>In life a paragon of justice and protector of Ios the long dead Warcaster was risen as a mindless ghoul. Upon eating the mind of a young elven warcaster his memories came flooding back to him. The necromancers that raised him still controlled him and found it amusing to let the puppet control warjacks. While he wages a war against all he holds dear he plans his escape. But with every battle his soul grows a little darker.
>spells involve moving other units cheap damage and slowing down enemies
>feat "Whites of Their Eyes" makes all your warjacks melee attacks 12" for a turn

Khador
>Prince Maximillian Launche
>The 6th son of a Lord in the frozen waste Max was doomed to obscurity until one of his many tantrums caused a warjack to come to life. While this led to the loss of his leg it didn't deter the self styled prince from achieving his destiny of becoming a legendary hero of the empire.
>spells all involve hitting better or more damage
>feat "Tantrum" all enemy models within 24" inches of Prince Maximillian Launche are knocked down.

>>48032458
That dakar eh?

Very much so. The nerfs to the choir and Vassals hurt, along with most of our jacks remaining MAT 6.

However, our Warcasters were pretty much buffed across the board with only 1 maybe 2 exceptions. All of our old, crappy character jacks are now fairly amazing. We still have some very good infantry choices.

I have a few gripes, but otherwise Protectorate is in a really good spot.

>>48032787
He's pretty fucking good.

Granted, he no longer has Mord's spell list, but still.

>>48032637
sure do.
Although I didn't get into the faction for hard denial but rather for being powered up for having my dudes killed, so I may be biased

>>48032800

Dakar looks awesome in and of itself. I think the complaint is that the faction wasn't in such a good place that they couldn't have just kept what they had and made the Venators good on top of it.

>>48032912

If the idea was that skrone players wouldn't need those things anymore (and they very well may not) and can move on to better things in-faction, it backfired heavily though. Faction-wide demoralization doesn't appeal to anybody.

>>48031975
Don't use the term "redpill,". It's fucking stupid in this context.

Caliban and Rask seem really good and everyone else remains good. You got faction-wide buffs. Only the posse got nerfed

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>>48033043
>Don't use the term "redpill,". It's fucking stupid in this context.

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>>48031680
This is the Revelator list I'm only missing the Revelator for.

I'm hesitant to say it's better than the Stormwall... but I'm not sure it's any worse.

>>48033123

There's nothing to disillusion. The stuff got better. The stuff they didn't get better went from being the best models of their kind in the game bar none to be really damned good. There is no redpill to take. It's a kiddie throat-lasenge. Takes like cherries and has a picture of a My Little Pony on the box.

>the pony has a word-bubble that says "Yay! You picked Minions after mk3 dropped!"

>>48032768
lame and gay

>>48032307
I'm not convinced CoC does it better than Menoth at the moment.

>>48032637
I'm a Menoth player and I'm hyped as fuck. I've put Amon jackspam on the table, and it's legit as fuck.

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>>48033193
Oops, wrong list.

>>48033271
Syntherion kept all his tricks and lost nothing, which means he still does warjack spam while making a powerful gunline, all at the same time. He's still easily one of the most versatile casters in the game, capable of handling just about everything. And with easy upkeep hate gone, he's gotten even better.

>>48032768
>all your warjacks melee attacks 12" for a turn
>all enemy models within 24" inches are knocked down.
And this, ladies and gentlemen, is why homebrews will always be cancer.

>>48032141
Most Cryx lists are still gonna be Bane Knight or Satyxis spam with a minimum amount of 'jacks.

Skorne Army - 75 / 75 points

(Xerxis 1) Tyrant Xerxis [+28]
- Agonizer [7]
- Tiberion [22]
- Titan Sentry [15]
- Titan Sentry [15]
Cataphract Cetrati (max) [20]
- Tyrant Vorkesh [6]
Paingiver Beast Handlers (max) [7]
Tyrant Commander & Standard Bearer [6]
Gudrun the Wanderer [5]

Going for a sort of brickish list. Kind of wish FoH was still around. Thoughts?

>>48033361
Oh, Syntherion is awesome. I just think Amon is better.

Big thing is once you figure in Mobility, FM: Parry, and Choir on top of Synergy, I'd take Crusaders at 10 over any of the CoC heavies -- they're like Inverters... except cost 10 points, can buy extra attacks at PS 23, are 2 SPD faster, have pathfinder and parry. For two-thirds the cost.

>>48033665
>a sort of brickish list

Bit of an understatement there?

Drop Gudrun for a Willbreaker and a Gobber Chef, imo.

>>48033588
As things shake out on the competitive level there's little doubt there. Unless somehow Gunslingers and cheap disposable assholes turning into little clouds somehow explodes options to unprecedented levels.

I'm gonna be messing around with the Kraken, though. I've always wanted to use one and now that PP is trying to force all this warjack propaganda down my eye chutes I'm damn well going to give it a try.

>>48033725
What's the chef do?

>>48033671
And once you figure Reconstruct, Hot Shot, and better charge ranges, never mind my feat, you're not going to have choir anywhere past the turn you come into range.

And you have to worry about dying to my shooting with your caster.

>>48033665
Similar to the list I made, I haven't run it yet, though.

I swapped one sentry for a glad for access to pathfinder, and took Orin for arcane vortex over gudrun. Add gobber chef

>>48034017
>the convergence meme wizard who's always right is back
lel just go to the PP forums kid

>>48034284
I'm glad you know who I am, because it's important that you realize the quality of my statements.

>>48034308
Realize how retarded and biased your theorymachine statements are.

>>48034337
Realize how biased your evaluations of my down to earth and quite realistic analysis is.

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>>48034356

>>48034373
That, sir, appears to be a duck.

>>48032272
Pretty much what I was thinking.

Immunity to Blast Damage is good, Solid Ground is great (With Toughness Boost as well), but he can't do it at the same time as Artifice of Deviation. Being Granted Cover is great, but it did come at the expense of losing mobility. Fire for Effect is neat, but not divine.

His feat no longer prevents charges, so thats a major bummer. It seems like he is just a caster with no bad spells. But that an A rank doesn't make.

Old Haley 2 had a whole lot of fuckiness (And Basically 8 Focus to use it) but she also had that Goddam time feat that was the worst thing in the universe.

>>48034684
I meant S Rank.

>>48033993
Lets you RFP a friendly warrior to remove any amount of Fury off of a beast; the big part is you do it during your control phase, so it gives you more choices for managing fury before you leech. And only costs one point.

Gives you an extra valve to vent fury if you need to run hot a turn, or lets you fully camp and still be able to manage fury.

I came to the conclusion that he's auto-include for Makeda2 (who wants to camp a lot of fury for Stay Death, and using him lets you fill up a beast to leech if you need it, or feed it a beast handler if you don't, so you can avoid either cutting or threshold checks), but the more I think about it, the more I think he's worth the point in any Skorne list, especially since Splatter Boars are a thing.

>>48034684
>Solid Ground is great (With Toughness Boost as well), but he can't do it at the same time as Artifice of Deviation

Why not?

>>48034758
They're probably both SELF upkeeps.

>>48034828
I thought Solid Ground was SELF and Artifice of Deviation was range CTRL.

>tfw menoth gets nerfed

I'm literally on suicide watch, I read a summary of changes and they nerfed so much, does anything look good in menoth anymore.

>>48034017
>Reconstruct

It's nice, but Amon gets 2x Enlivens, and FM: Parry, so he gets the old-style Enliven not the new nerfed version, and I'd take 2x Enliven over Reconstruct.

>Hot Shot

Does this spell even matter with 3x Induction being a thing?

>better charge ranges

Against one jack, and that's only with the floaty vectors, and if I'm not using Shielding (and with Optifex Directive being a thing, I'm not using Passage, so I'm either already in your lines or have Shielding up), otherwise Amon out-threats.

>never mind my feat

Eh, Syntherion's is better than Amon's, but that's not saying much. With 3x Induction and Synergy, free charges is pretty much overkill, and if you're packing enough ranged for Dual Attack to *matter*, I'm not really scared.

>you're not going to have choir anywhere past the turn you come into range

You're underestimating the LoS blocking ability of 8 heavy jacks.

>And you have to worry about dying to my shooting with your caster.

If you can see him with enough jacks to matter.


*shrug*

CoC is awesome this edition. Syntherion is terrifying. I don't think he does jackspam better than Amon, though, just by virtue of Amon having a bigger toolbox at his disposal. They're both S-tier casters, though, imo.

>>48034892
Menoth got better against the field. Our top-tier casters got shuffled around a bit, but our best compete with everyone else's best better than they did in Mk2.

>>48034892
Menoth looks extremely strong

>>48034936
Diffuser guns, man.

>>48034863
Yeah, sorry the whole thing is a little confusing at times. What I was trying to say is that, unless MKIII changed something, one model cannot have two upkeeps on it. Though Artifice isn't a SELF upkeep it would still originate and count as being "on" him. So he can't have both active.

At least, as far as I know.

>>48034892
>>48034993

Honestly, right now my best guess tier ranking is:

Top: Every Warmachine faction except Cryx + Circle
Mid: Cryx + Every Hordes faction except Circle
Bottom: nobody, really

Maaaaybe Cygnar and Khador are a bit stronger than Menoth, but not by much. Maaaybe Skorne is a bit weaker than the rest, but not by much. I play both Warmachine and Hordes, though, and I definitely feel the Warmachine factions are a step ahead of the Hordes, and right now only Circle really competes.

>>48034993
How do you figure, all I see when looking at the changes are overall negatives, from eFeora losing bond, to zealots becoming unplayable. (they worked in my meta) To higher relative point costs for jacks that are weaker then ever thanks to nerfs to the two best support units.

>>48035088
>Though Artifice isn't a SELF upkeep it would still originate and count as being "on" him

According to what? Unless they changed something about that in Mk3, you can totally have a ctrl and a self upkeep in play at the same time.

Looks like the KD/stationary charge thing is being fixed. On the other hand, Gang/Gang Fighter/Flank are working as they were tested. So I guess you don't get those on KD/stationary targets?

Woo.

>>48035088
Not how it works.

CTRL isn't the same as SELF.

You can have a CTRL and a SELF up at the same time without issue.

>>48035115
Your faith sounds weak.

Which is appropriate because your God is the wrong God!

>>48035111
Skorne is probably bottom. They took some hits in major departments.

>>48035056
Ahh, I always forget about those guys. Rest of the points stand, though, and you're getting further back on attrition the more Diffusers you have to increase threat range.

>>48035171
According to me being dumb and making wild guesses about something I maybe heard somewhere sometime.

Yeah, it sounded dumb to me, too. Good thing I've never had to play a caster like that or I would have been in for a bad time.

>>48035115
Still has lots of upkeep hate
still has lots of powerful jacks and the best jack support
still has many good units for contesting zones
still has many powerful casters

It's easy to look at stuff and see negative things. Just try playing a few games

>>48035217
Not convinced of it from my experience in game. Nobody I've played brings stuff that looks anything like their Mk2 Skorne lists, but so far Circle is the only Hordes faction I'd say is clearly better.

>>48035115
Jacks got cheaper and better across the board, Power Up is a thing now, and Menoth still has the best jack support.

It's a jack-heavy edition, and Menoth is (along with CoC) one of the two top factions for running jacks.

>>48025719
>>48025249

Cuse im playing MEMEnoth

>>48035115

Look at Sevvy1 and tell me they nerfed Menoth.

Look me in the fucking eye and tell me they nerfed Menoth.

>>48033123
Redpill belongs on /pol/

Fixed the knockdown interaction with charges, Gang style effects confirmed to be working as intended(or not working, in this case).

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254923-Gang-bonus-vs-quot-engaged-models-quot-instead-of-quot-in-melee-range-quot&p=3591563&viewfull=1#post3591563

http://privateerpressforums.com/showthread.php?254924-Charging-Stationary-Knocked-down-Models&p=3591549&viewfull=1#post3591549

How's that crit knockdown looking, Cryx players?

>>48035513

Guess I won't be buying Raiders ever.

>>48034936
>>Hot Shot
>Does this spell even matter with 3x Induction being a thing?

On the axiom its bonkers. The accellaspiker has gone up to rof 5. I managed to take out a full unit of storm lances in a single activation with it.

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>>48035513
>Soldiers who are exceptionally skilled with ganging up on targets so much that they are specialized in it
>Guy gets knocked down
>Everyone goes power rangers fight mode
>"No, no, you first, I insist"
>"No, you go, it's your turn."

My LGS didn't even get enough stock to cover all preorders. Journeyman league is going to have to allow old battle boxes.

Great way to launch a new edition, guess our chance of getting new players in just died.

>>48035513
Regarding the gang change: https://youtu.be/7rTJtVyQhN0

>>48036662

There's always Skorne!

>>48037040
I do not need a third fucking savage

Anyway, my khador box came in. It's just really pissing me off that we're not going to have any in stock for new players. We have been trying to set this up for the last month to pump new blood into it and it's gone to shit.

>>48031680
>all that blast damage

It would be a shame if the ground was too... solid..

Irusk2 will shit on revelator and template spam.

>>48037126
Revelator's direct hits still deal a lot of damage yo. But yes, solid ground does well against that. Like woop de doo.

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>>48035513
Jesus Christ, that makes rolling a crit KD with Satyxis an actively negative thing if you're trying to beat up a warjack.

That's some super fucking Skornergy right there, and before Jason cocksucking faggot hair Soles comes in here and accuses me of not liking options, Crit KD isn't fucking optional you semen-slurping degenerate.

>>48037302
Wow, cryx players sure getting butthurt about bad mechanics other factions have had to deal with for half a decade.

>>48037325
The bad mechanic of not being able to gang on a knocked down model? It affects every model with gang. It seems pretty dumb to me.

>>48037365
No, bad mechanics in general.

Anyway, gang is a drop in the bucket.

This means that flank doesn't work. And that is a way bigger deal, because flank is the reason a lot of characters even exist.

Imagine taking great bears with sorscha 1. You pop stationary and they lose flank. Whoops.

>>48037302

Maybe you don't like design space! That's what he calls it when he takes away options.

>The Basilisk Krea also underwent some significant changes. Her capabilities were limiting the Faction’s design space. Mk II Paralytic Aura became one of those factors we had to weigh every time we talked about the Skorne. After a great deal of focused playtest we eventually replaced her old animus with Force Aura, which states, “While within 3˝ of the spellcaster, friendly Faction models gain Force Barrier. Force Aura lasts for one round. (A model with Force Barrier gains +2 DEF against ranged attack rolls and does not suffer blast damage.)”

"Limiting the Faction's Design Space" in this instance apparently having had the meaning of "keeping their models from being shot off the table from their Cygnarian and Khadoran masters as they futilely try to get all the way across the table to hit them."

Well problem fucking solved, Soles. You fixed that one! Take fucking victory lap!

To be fair, the krea animus is better than it was in mk2 for single wound infantry. It's just way worse for everything else. The titan nerf means that you need the krea animus to just be at mk2 unbuffed def levels, and you don't get the armor.

>>48037490

Not even all single wound infantry- Karax would probably brick up really nice with the old 2-inch +2/+2.

And Immortals are just standing around with their def 11 being silently pissed off,

>>48037490
>To be fair, the krea animus is better than it was in mk2 for single wound infantry. It's just way worse for everything else. The titan nerf means that you need the krea animus to just be at mk2 unbuffed def levels, and you don't get the armor.

Most importantly, oddly enough, the krea. Effective 4 point ARM nerf there against shooting, and still rocking that native DEF 12.

Ah, Hordes. Don't worry, they be buffing you all soon enough. They'll have to.

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>>48037325

>>48037767
>Ah, Hordes. Don't worry, they be buffing you all soon enough. They'll have to.
Fuck that, let them rot, I've already sold my Circle for Cryx.

Ironically the last straw wasn't anything to do with rules, but helping my friend assemble his Wolves/Reeves, and the chilling realization that to continue playing the faction competently I'd probably have to buy and assemble those godawful kits.

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Huh, so Hordes looks really bad now after playing a ton of Mk3 games for the last month. How are they supposed to do anything against the amazing jack spam and gun lines?

I played an Ossyan list and honestly I don't know how a faction like Trolls could ever possibly beat it since it shoots heavies off the table under Ragnors feat turn. Hope you brought tons of shield guards because you're slow army is going to have a bad time

Lord Arcanist Ossyan - WJ: +28
- Hyperion - PC: 36 (Battlegroup Points Used: 28)
- Hypnos - PC: 18

Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Arcanist Mechanik - PC: 2
Ghost Sniper - PC: 3

Dawnguard Invictors - Leader & 9 Grunts: 16
- Dawnguard Invictor Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4
Dawnguard Sentinels - Leader & 9 Grunts: 18
- Dawnguard Sentinel Officer & Standard - Officer & Standard: 4

>>48037811

I'm pretty sure that the past few focus vs. fury matches I've seen the warmachine player had a battlegroup that was both individually cheaper, individually more capable, and both players used equivalent amounts of focus/fury during their turns.

Throw in the better animi becoming "self" and Powerup skewed valuations in ways that don't appear to have been balanced for, or at least they made previous attempts at balancing focus and fury grandfathered in an unmitigated hordes nerfs. (Warjacks were always better statted and cheaper than their hordes direct equivalents in mk2, but you had fury-additive/focus-restrictive thing going on. Focus just exploded and Fury still has its hard cap in managing a board full of frenzy- the two numbers seem to have *met*)

>>48029905
>Vlad1 is in a good place now
That place is called murdertown. Population: you. And Vlad. Who is currently murdering you.

I think that every single khador warcaster except karchev, harkevich, old witch, vlad3, and sorscha2 are solid A to A+ casters. And the rest are Bs.

>>48038225

Old witch has a lot of potential, she is better than ever, her only problem is a lack of jack points and a lack of retard strong infantry options. Since great bears got nerfed you're really really gotta rely on pikes and kayazy to get work done.

Sorscha 2 should be moved to c tier.

I played A LOT of sorscha 2 in mk2. What does this caster even do? She can't mulch infantry like the other casters, she can't support infantry or jacks well enough to be considered a support caster anymore. you're banking everything on a feat turn. If she was the only source of rfp maybe I would think she was better. The loss of freezing grip was a ridiculous, the loss of the bond, her wgi support, and the changes to the wgi and nyss have definitely soured this caster.

Can someone with the rulebook post a picture of the rules for Thorn Gun Mages.

The Faction Deck doesn't have a card for them.

Thanks in advance

>>48038419
Check the archives

>>48037302
>That's some super fucking Skornergy right there
No. It would be Skornergy if you could decide whether to lose gang or not take the knockdown.

>>48038601
What? No. That would be a semi-sensible and functional rule, because things you need the Gang bonus and multiple hits to deal with typically don't need to be KD to begin with.

>>48037126

Revelator still drops AoE fire clouds when it direct hits. So anyone ending or going into it will still take a hit and get set on fire.

So it's not a total wash.

>>48038658
Well yes.

>>48038225
Karchev is definitely an A imo. There is just not enough armour cracking in the game to get through all of his jacks AND him.

I rolled an eHaley list the other night and mever once felt out of control. Beast09 ripping both of Thorns arms off with a counter charge was just icing.

>>48037969
Yeah I played Rahn into my friend's Ragnor list and I blasted him off the table with Battle Mages and Jack shooting.

>>48031304
Thanks for the input!
I'm having a blast with Aurora - the changes at Transference, True Path and the Feat PLUS the new rules regarding the backstrikes makes for interesting sheganigans.
I can't wait to place a unit of perforators in Assault behind a 'jack to abuse that +2 and get in +9 Boosted Armor Penetration hits in.

Quick question for a lore standpoint would you guys rate Farrow as bad for being bandits and the like or no? The reason why I ask is because I got into a discussion with a friend about how just because they're all about personal strength and raiding doesn't mean they're savage monsters. I see them more as doing what they do because they as a people understand life is short and at the end of the day survival is the only thing that matters so they do what they have to survive

>>48039144
Ok, so I feel like there's some things to cover here.

First of all, When you charge a target, once it enters your melee range, it can never leave it. This means that you can't charge over a model into it's back arc.

Second, Transference only applies to melee damage rolls, so you can't use it to boost the Armor Piercing shots, as they're still ranged.

>>48039100
Karchev himself is too vulnerable and he struggles against terrain. Not to mention that he and his army's slow as balls.

The new karchev is better than old, but he hasn't been elevated much to be a tourney staple.

With premeasuring your countercharge should not have happened. That's just bad thorn play.

>>48039289
They are assholes, like everyone else in IK.

>>48039410
Fair enough I agree with the idea that pretty much every race has bad about them

>>48037969
Wouldn't Gunnbjorn have kind of a field day against a list like this?

People raging about gunlines could always put some more terrain down? Or is this not a thing?

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>>48039925
Yeah, I'll just bring my own trenches and wall templates to a tournament. That'll teach those filthy power gamers. The steamroller standard amount is not enough against dedicated gunlines and it's not as if gunlines can't utilize terrain to block charges, counter-shooting and form choke points or even to make contesting easier.

>>48039925
Most gunlines really have no trouble hitting you regardless of concealment. So you'd have to litter the table with trenches and it'd still not be enough.

>>48039997
Bummer, sounds like you'd need a WWI style table.

>>48039973
That's to bad. I guess no one has tried WMH on say a Mordheim or Infinty style of table?

>>48040008
The problem with that is that there's certain casters who would be unstoppable in those kinds of conditions.

Aurora, for example, has the ability to have her entire army essentially ignore every kind of terrain, so her mobility would be insane compared to every other army in the game.

>>48040008
That doesn't really work. Melee models also need LoS for charging. Otherwise they are either too slow or can't attack.

And it's not like gunlines are the biggest balance issue in MK3. I'd rate the WM/H disparity higher.

>>48040017
I gotcha. Brutal.

>>48040025
So what's the big problem behind Hordes? Animus Synergies being nerfed into the ground?

>>48040032
>Animus Synergies being nerfed into the ground?
Honestly it's most likely this. With power up and 'jacks just generally becoming cheaper across the board the nerf to fury management was probably enough to bring the two resources into general balance against each other. But with the removing of certain animi and nerfing some beasts that were never really a problem to begin with I think they might have swung a little to far in the other direction.

>>48040032
>Animus Synergies being nerfed into the ground?
That is part of the Problem. Other problems are:

1. Fury used to be a lot better on beasts than focus was on jacks. Jacks had better stats to compensate. Noiw Focus/Fury are approximately equal in power, but jacks got a lot better, while beasts mostly got nerfed.

2. Hordes infantry is just not as good as Warmachine Infantry. Sure, there are exceptions, but they are just that.

3. Warmachine casters just have better feats and spell lists. For example, Skorne players are currently going nuts over how good Rasheth's feat has become (and it is good). But now compare it to pDenny's feat, which is strictly better.

>>48037126
It still sets everything on fire.

>>48039391
Oh, I understand. Gotta read again the charge rules and the new Arcane Might, I was sure it was about every roll made by a melee unit.

So is Prime/Primal out yet?
...PDFs?

Did they drop that day 1 errata while I wasn't looking or was it all a lie?

>>48037969
>How are they supposed to do anything against the amazing jack spam and gun lines?
With warders.
Try to shoot their heavies when your first 5 big shots are shieldguarded away.

>>48040115
Re 2: Weapon Master is a rare and special thing Hordes side. While, at least in Mk 2, it was so goddamn abundant on the WM side of the fence that infantry that didn't have it were seen as inferior.

3. Damn straight. Animi were supposed to help with that, but now 85% of the bloody things are Self Only. As a Skorne player, my joke has long been that I get as Feats what other people call spells, while there's casters out there with Feats on their spell lists (Temporal Barrier and S&P come to mind)

>>48040593
They've been out for weeks, m8. The PDF's are in the OP

>>48035207
Can I point out the obvious flaw? There are no CTRL upkeeps, because CTRL isn't a target, it's a range. And I'm fairly certain all the range CTRL spells are target SELF.

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>>48040406
>>48038708

Say that to my Mask, fuckers, and not on the battlefield, and see what happens.

>>48040856
Tell me commandant, why pants so tight? Bohze moi I can feel my little kommandos retreating. And where is rest of armor?

>>48040906
Rest of armor is not of need, komerad. Simply aiming gas mask in general direction and avoid bad things.

On a serious note, Khador is extremely fucking powerful in this edition. I've played 4 games of MK3, 3 with khador, 1 with legion, and I haven't lost a single game yet.

Yesterday I ate a whole unit of infantry with B3 after they ate a unit of my IFP tagged with affliction.

Almost everything has infantry hate now. Almost nothing has armor hate, and khador can jam armor in your face like it's nobody's business.

>>48040809
Oh i know about those,i was reffering to the hardcover ones that also have the fluff and unit entries

>>48040925
Ah. No idea.

>>48040922
Based on what I've seen of Khador they may just be the new Cryx. It seems like they do everything Mk3 encourages you to do as good or better than everyone else.

>>48040922
>>48040979

Cryx is all about armor hate. I'd say Kahdor has joined Cryx for playing to the strengths of the system.

With the new cheaper Cyclops and cheaper Zaadesh I think you guys really need to give him a try. For 20 points you get some pretty terrifying damage output. If you use a Brute and a Savage you're getting:

>Brute
MAT8
4x PS16WM 2"
1x PS13WM 0.5"
Relevant animus

>Savage
MAT8
4x PS17WM 2"
Relevant animus

That's more damage output than any Skorne heavy can muster and higher MAT too, and Zaadesh now has enough fury to upkeep Tag Team and boost the hit on Perdition which is a pretty huge buff considering the extra point of fury is another point to his magic attack roll anyway. It's like he gained +4.5 to hit on a spell that really needs to hit, when a lot of heavies dropped in DEF at the same time. He also takes the stress away from small fury pool casters like Morghoul1 (whose Abuse spell can target Zaadesh's beasts and whose feat doesn't care about anyone's battlegroups).

The big downside is that he's still VERY squishy. It's like you brought a 20 point heavy that has 13/15 and 5 boxes. But for 20 points you get the ability to murder just about any heavy in cold blood, and Cyclops are pretty good at just generally brawling their way up the field anyway. But hey, you were bringing a Bellows Crew anyway, right?

It's tough being a positive thinking Skorne player.

>>48041136
And if I'm using Morghoul1 I can get away with a single min unit of Handlers hanging around Zaadesh since Morghoul1 himself can function as a Handler by prodding beasts. Shit man I'm onto something here.

>>48035479
>They nerfed menoth

I have a question about the 'Empower' ability many jack support models have. It says:
Give a focus.
Remove disruption.

Do these happen simultaneously? Or sequentially? If it's simultaneously then a disrupted warjack would be cleaned and gain a focus. If sequentially, the warjack couldn't receive the focus, but becomes not disrupted.

If it's sequentially then it seems like there's no reason to even use empower on a jack that is disrupted unless you have two models empowering.

>>48041136
He has sac pawn, he'll be okay.

>>48041136
>>48041293
Where are you getting weapon master from?

>>48041423
Tag Team gives your models flank, essentially. It gives +2MAT and an extra damage dice to models attacking models within melee range of another model in the same battlegroup. Which is handy with Cyclops since they all have 2" range which you can now premeasure.

>>48041448
Read the card again.

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>>48041374
what?
is there any indication that one happens first?
>no
you perform one single action - empower. the primary function is to give a focus.
why is this the primary function? because disruption isn't so common.
but you get the bonus of making the primary function possible given the uncommon situation of finding yourself with a disrupted 'jack ie getting rid of disruption.

>EMPOWER (HACTION) – RNG CMD. Target friendly Faction warjack. If the target warjack is in range, it gains 1 focus point. If the warjack was Disrupted, it is no longer Disrupted.

is american your native tongue?

>>48041499
Oh shit it's only +2 damage. It still seems good to me. -1.5 damage on each of those rolls which were already in the dangerously cheesy zone. They're still hitting like Enraged Bronzebacks, except with more boxes, more attacks, higher MAT, much higher DEF, greater range, higher SPD, higher THR, relevant animii, and are even a little cheaper than one if you don't count Zaadesh. And Zaadesh himself can get in on the action too if needs be. I mean, once one Cyclops is down he may as well be dead so fuck it.

>>48041562
You're still just PS16 on the Brute unless I'm missing something (12 base + 2 Tag Team + 2 Enrage), or you're counting Abuse in all of that.

It's not bad, but I'm not sure it's all that good given how close you have to get Zaadesh to the front lines for it to work.

>>48041629
Yeah I'd be counting Abuse in that. But yeah as stated earlier, Zaadesh is basically 20 points for a 13/15 with 5 boxes. Sac Pawn and Safeguard are nice, as is a Bellows Crew (better this edition because of meme gunlines).

>>48039100
If he still gave free charges he'd be an A.

Problem is his feat doesn't really work. The boosted attack rolls are great, don't get me wrong. But boosted damage is cancelled out by a charge, and you still have to spend focus to charge. So what you're actually boosting is your off hand pow 15 fist on most jacks, plus whatever focus karchev can scrape together to give buys without compromising his survivability. You're looking at 3 or 4 boosted buys across your battlegroup. I'm sorry, that's just not awe inspiring to me.

>>48041784
I'd still say pretty A to me. Khador jacks are made to stick in on a fight, so feating the turn AFTER you get them charged in is still plenty workable as they will likely still be fully functional, doubly so with a unit of mechaniks supporting them.

Feat without the charge is still pretty good due to how many jacks you can bring now. It's not obliteratingly powerful, just massively focus efficient with powerup.

>>48041784
I like to think about this feat as a mean for Karchev himself to one-round colossals or several heavies.

>>48033665

Try to find points for a totem hunter or something that can snipe out the other guy's support. If they have a way to crack armour outside the 'caster you'll want to remove it.

>>48031058
she's okay.
But why pay 3pts for a mechanic when you can get vassal mechaniks for 1pt

>>48035952
I haven't seen anything so stupid since mk3.

>>48035952
For your goat girls, think of it this way:

A headbutt is how a Raider tells her sisters she plans on raping the dude/girl/robot/giant monster. So it's basically her calling dibbs, and everyone else leaves her victim alone.

>>48042877

So we're renaming "Steady" to "Stamina", then.

>>48040115
1. Almost always false. The variance of jack to beast stats was well withing 1, and beasts generally had the best heavy defensive statlines

3. Bullshit. Morv2, Krueger2, Saeryn, Lylith2, Vayl2, Abby2, Thags1, all of them had great as shit feats and spell lists.

>>48040115
No. the focus/fury balance is about right now.

What amazes me is that things that were fine in mk2 have been changed and now don't work.

like KD/stationary models not beng engaged anymore.

This new edition hasn't streamlined anything really. They just chopped paragraphs out of the book.

>>48042932
>1. Almost always false. The variance of jack to beast stats was well withing 1, and beasts generally had the best heavy defensive statlines

That's not true. Hell, that's not even controversial. There's an obvious stats offset in each points-level, and points-offset in each stat-level. It was known why this was (not much limit on fury use in comparison to focus use) and people accepted it as an attempt at balance (fury being better than focus). I'm honestly stupified that you wrote this.

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What's a good list to pair with an Ossyan gunline? Right now I've got this list to go along with it, but I'm not sure if there's a better option.

>>48042956

Focus and Fury get used on table in comparable quantities now. Jacks are still better than Beasts for their points (ridiculously so on the low end, look at 13, 14 point level and down). This has consequences now that a "cheap" warjack is no longer a gameplay handicap.

>>48043086
If warbeasts were all fury three and didn't come with an animus, then they'd be as cheap as jacks

>>48043105
Not sure in the focus bit...

But Animus took a huge hit. It's not that big of a plus to have animus as it used to.

>>48043086
>>48043105
Yes, in other words, Focus = fury now.
This is the only decent thing that is the result of this new edition.

>>48043022
Let's compare then, shall we?

Hammesmith is an 8 point jack, Titan Gladiator is an 8 point beast.

Gladiator is has +1DEF, an extra initial, and only -1 box of health.

In fact, a Gladiator holds up against nearly every other 8 point heavy in the game.

Stalker is a great comparison as well. Sure, it's 10 points, but it's a 14DEF, requiring boosts for even MAT7 stuff to reliably hit, it's got reach, and a POW18 weapon.

In fact, most heavy warjack stats are either 12/18, 11/19, or 10/20, where beasts are usually sitting at 14/17 or 12/19. Only Trolls have bog standard defensive stats, at 12/18, but they also have the stone, so who cares?

Legion was the only faction to have terrible statlines, but their entire thing was not getting hit. Or using Tenacity.

So why don't you show me where beast statlines are so much worse than jack statlines?

>>48040821
>And I'm fairly certain all the range CTRL spells are target SELF.

And you would be wrong.

>>48043167

Good thing Legion lost tenacity and got nothing for it.

Do you guys watch WMH battle reports? If so, who are your favorite groups to watch?

I'm looking for something to kill time with over the next week or two, I'm going to be stationed in a shithole with nothing to do but a decent wifi connection and Youtube. There's only so much list building I can do before I get bored.

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>>48043167
>Using the Mk2 Titan Gladiator as an example when it was by far the most cost efficient beatstick in all of Skorne, with nothing else coming close apart from the Bronzeback who got his balls cut off in Mk3
But hey at least my infantry got buffed right?
>Cataphracts

>>48043228
Please give me an example. I sadly don't know the majority of spells off the top of my head.

>>48043167

You picked *Gladiator* and matched it against a Hammersmith (a codex Cygnar heavy, even then it has a chain-attack and beatback along with sharing the Gladiators specials. Stonger before Beast-Handler Tax, compares and slightly exceeded by after). That's cherry picking an outlier right there (Titan Gladiator? The most single economical warbeast beatstick for the entirety of mk2 across all factions with no competition?). Even then beatback. The Warpwolf Stalker was likewise a freak with no peers- what is it to be compared to?

Ironclads, Rhinodons. (or heck, Ironclads, Gladiator if only to see how a 7 point heavy and be a more apt contender than an 8 point) Or get out of Cygnar, it's not for nothing they were given the Stormwall halfway through. Juggernaughts.

I'm still stupified by you. This was basic stuff.

>>48043167
yep and they managed to get that wrong too.
it should be:
cryx slayer heavy def 12 / arm 17
cygnar ironclad heavy def 11 / arm 18
menoth crusader heavy def 10/ arm 19
see the pattern yet?
khador juggernaut heavy def 9 /arm 20

heavy warbeasts should follow the same pattern, but with +1 def, -1arm
circle warpwolf heavy def 13 arm 16
troll heavy def 12 arm 17
legion carnivean heavy def 11 arm 18
skorme effalump heavy def 10 arm 19

similar tables for MAT/RAT and STR (although STR is a redundant stat and could be easily removed, unlike arm lock power attacks which should have stayed.) SPD depends mostly on ARM values.

Some people can into games development. However, Mr Soles, whilst I respect his art, cannot into.

>>48043413


Rapid growth

>>48043449

You may want to include P+S in all that.

>>48043449
>All heavies should have DEF+ARM=19
Fuck off with your homogeneous shit. There's a huge difference between developing a game and developing a simple formula and painting it 9 different colours.

>>48043449
I dont understand why warpwolves get to be 14/17 but slayers are 13/17. Most things can his a 13 with average dice.

>>48043512
A Warpwolf Stalker is 19 points and a Slayer is 10. Oh boo hoo the model that costs double has an extra point of defense.

>>48043471
If it were up to me I'd remove STR altogether.
STR is used in throw power attacks (and arm locks when they still existed) and how many abilities use STR? the earthborn's thing has it, that's about it.

So redundant stat, into the trash it goes.
This is how streamlining works Mr. Soles.

Same with the Cmd stat. It was problematic before because it was one stat with two jobs: unit coherency and unit bravery.

bravery was removed, so now Cmd has one fucking job; unit coherency; that is, to ensure that a unit acts like a unit and not a dozen solos.
So why do so many units continue to have Cmd 8 and 9 ? oh and banners are so important because they add another 2".

Then wonder why AoE 3" isn't any good and why you have to up several AoEs to 4 or even 5".
Nice exception that confirms the rule with the bloat thrall, but it is cryx so deserved a kick in the balls, right?

>>48043508
you can't read, and you're a faggot.
it doesn't say arm + def = 19
it's a balance between "agile" and "tank" you fuckwit.

lel this backseat game dev
go make your own game retard