>>48005243
>What have you done so far?
Here's our main document, which contains all of our ideas recorded en masse:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/15kJXvBVinsbst0tMWmzwaUj5ddk0hotd3nifw3Hs720/edit

We also have a couple supplementary documents:

The Psychlopedia
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1yjonEzY_gVzJm5FyYksoDnx1otVEBpjAA8K1Ozw3eZU/edit
This is a rundown of all the Psychs in the source game. As we develop the system these will be fleshed out with actual mechanics.

The Thread Count:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/16Uc3YJ-yRMoDhNc90EK5Ao0WOrubO0Gnl8ixIYQOEZs/edit
This is going to catalog the various Threads (clothing) and Brands from the source game, as a resource for GMs to use in their own games.

The Couture Matrix:
>https://docs.google.com/document/d/1850Ubwvdlqe0_9hk176tZ91-ykkJFlHX2XeS2VAA5Gw/edit
Rules for randomly rolling new Threads.

>What's on the Agenda?
We're making pins to have our basic stuff down to playtest soon.

We still need a proper health system in place. We've agreed on communal health pools, but we don't have much beyond that.

Lots of fine tuning too, if the system needs it.

>Previous Thread?
>>47885001

File: Character Sheet (Draft) - Fillable.pdf (1 B, 486x500) Image search: [Google]

1 B, 486x500

Excellent timing on this then!

This is the fillable PDF for the Character Sheet. It's a little crude (the rank boxes for Tags and Trust are pretty ugly) but definitely functional. I'll post the non-fillable one to show what it looks like without big thick check-boxes everywhere.

Gonna work on a revision for the Pin Sheet too, which will help us statting out the basic pins that we began talking about at the end of the last thread.

File: Pin Sheet (Draft).pdf (1 B, 486x500) Image search: [Google]

1 B, 486x500

And here's a revised draft of the Pin sheet format. Note that I've added Rank indicators and I've also added Magnitude, which is the measurement used to show the relative power of a Pin's Psych.

I'm not sure what to do about Combos though since we haven't quite decided if Combos are specific to Psychs or to characters.

In other words, do we say that Energy Rounds has a X-hit combo, or do we say that the character of R.B. has a combo that's 3 hits long?

>>48006127
If combo is maximum amount of successes per attack, I'd imagine just having a spot in the picture with combo, between attack and effect. Effect should be fine with 2 lines.

>>48006171
Right but here's my thought:

If combos are per-Psych, then it kind of pushes Players towards spamming one Psych each turn. I.e. the can't launch a Piercing Pillar and follow it up with Energy Rounds and still get a combo. Moreover if they miss with a Pin with two uses and they need two hits for their Combo then they're screwed because there's no way they can get that combo before it reboots.

If Combos are per-Player, then there's more versatility. A Player can mix and match his Psych attacks with the aim of getting a combo, or he can focus on one Psych if he thinks it's to his advantage to do so, like if his enemy is at a certain range.

Plus it makes more sense for Threads to modify your combo if it's linked to the Player instead of his Psychs.

Remember in the original game, Combos were primarily the realm of your Partner, who didn't have multiple Psychs. We're trying to take that concept and unify it with a system where you do have multiple Psychs.

>>48006021
Do you hate printers?

>>48006218
Ha, nah I can post a more printer friendly version. It's still gonna be a little on the crowded side but it'll use less shaded boxes.

>>48005243
>HP
First, clearing up what was mentioned last thread:
Each character has an HP stat. The HP stat of everyone in the Party is added up into the main Health Pool. Or Symphony, whatever.

A defensive character can wear Threads with a special ability: when that character takes damage, you subtract from his PERSONAL Health first, effectively doubling his contribution to health as long as he is the one taking the hits. We can call it....Harmonics? So you can wear a second Thread with the same ability and stack it for a 2nd Harmonic.

>Damage
We need to split enemy damage into their components. First is obviously Damage Value, how much it deals on hit. Next is Accuracy, the difficulty to dodge it.

But are defensive moves going to mitigate or increase likelihood of dodging? I also assume that some defensive characters can stun enemies to make them lose their turn/some AP?

>>48006021
>6 player slots
that's uh....isn't that a bit much? I was thinking about using that space for Trust in certain Reapers(or Composers), but there doesn't seem to be space for the entry.

>>48006338
>HP
The way that we were looking at HP is a bit different from what you're describing, though overall it's the same idea:

The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value.

Players don't have their own HP by default unless they equip Threads that grant HP or eat Food which temporarily creates HP. If a Player has HP, then any damage he takes will be subtracted from that total before it impacts Group HP. If he doesn't, then his damage goes directly to the Group HP.

It's a simpler approach than what you're suggesting, and I'd say more in the spirit of the original game, which we obviously can't replicate 100%.

>>48006203
If combos are per player, it'll encourage spamming combo pins, as there's no way a single hit can fill a combo. Ideally, combos should be based on the pins used. That way, the combo can be filled out regardless of the pin used.

>>48006338
>The HP stat of everyone in the Party is added up into the main Health Pool.
Alright, cool. Now all we need is a way to increase it. I think spending soul should work.

>when that character takes damage, you subtract from his PERSONAL Health first
This doesn't seem like a great idea. That thread is either going to be broken or useless, depending on how we're doing health. Also, if you're losing your own personal health, wouldn't that mean that as you lose health, the team health drops too? Because the whole team has your personal health total added in.

Also, the ability would be called Backup, like a Backup Singer.

Why not just have threads that add more health to the team pile? That way, everyone gains health from your clothes, not just you.

>First is obviously Damage Value, how much it deals on hit. Next is Accuracy, the difficulty to dodge it.
I'd imagine it would be similar to how we're doing pin psyches, having them roll to hit and doing either X damage per success or doing X damage if they make Y successes.

>I also assume that some defensive characters can stun enemies to make them lose their turn/some AP?
Immobilize ability.

>>48006356
Could be for NPC players too. The NPC category is specifically for non-PLAYER characters, understand?

>>48006436
wait....how is that different from what I said?

>>48006448
you were here last thread, weren't you? why didn't you bring it up earlier?

>Also, if you're losing your own personal health, wouldn't that mean that as you lose health, the team health drops too?
okay, now I'm starting to feel that you're deliberately misreading the intent. I'm sure you know what I actually meant, so why don't we skip ahead and you tell me how I should word it so there's no rules lawyering?

>Why not just have threads that add more health to the team pile?
so that there's additional reason to defend the squishy nukers, giving defensive units an active roll instead of being glorified stat sticks.

>>48006436
>Players don't have their own HP by default unless they equip Threads that grant HP or eat Food which temporarily creates HP.
Even in the game, food adds more to their own HP, yes, but that is added to the collective total. If we have it equal to the stats (which I agree to) then the HP section could be split to HP total and HP bonus, which is added from stuff. Or, food bonuses could be temporary and could add to the combat like threads would. Once you're out of bites, you're out of bonus.

>>48006467
You said:
>Each character has an HP stat. The HP stat of everyone in the Party is added up into the main Health Pool. Or Symphony, whatever.

what I said was:
>The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value. Players don't have their own HP by default unless they equip Threads that grant HP or eat Food which temporarily creates HP.

>>48006448
>Why not just have threads that add more health to the team pile?
Because that makes it much harder for a player to be built for defensive purposes. Here's how I described it in the previous thread:

>Pop is a glass cannon. All of her points are put towards her attacks, and she has practically no defense and literally no HP. If she gets hit, all of the damage she takes goes to the Group HP.

>Jazz is defense focused. He has some HP, but mostly he put a lot of focus on Defensive Psychs and Skills. This means he's very good at preventing damage from being taken, and his HP serves as a small buffer for the GHP.

>R.B. is a meat shield. He's got lots of points in attacking, very little in the way of defense, and lots of HP. If he gets attacked he may not be able to block the damage, but that's okay, because he's got HP to spare, which protects the GHP.

>If Pop gets hit and takes 10 damage, all 10 of that damage is deducted from the GHP.

>If Jazz gets hit for 10 damage, let's say he has 4 HP, then his HP will soak that up and the GHP takes 6 damage.

>R.B. has, like, 25 HP. If he gets hit by an attack that deals 10 damage, he'll be reduced to 15 HP and the Group HP is totally unaffected.

Going a route where ALL +HP bonuses go direct to the group HP total flattens character building options.

>>48006555
Your point is to explicitly state that a character has no Personal HP unless they have Backup/Harmonics activated? .....I guess there's a difference, in terms of confusion?

But if you're trying to add up a character's stats to calculate their "contribution" to the Harmony Pool, wouldn't you keep that shorthand around on the character page, where I can see an HP window in >>48006021?

>>48006495
>Or, food bonuses could be temporary and could add to the combat like threads would. Once you're out of bites, you're out of bonus.
That's exactly how it works. Note on the Character sheet that there's a row of Bites and below it lines for Effects. When you eat food you fill in the number of Bites with a / Mark, and write underneath those Bites what that food does. During combat you can digest 1 bite at a time, turning the / into an X in exchange for the bonus given by the food.

For example, a piece of Food might give you +1 Attack and have 4 Bites. When you eat it you mark off four Bite Boxes starting from the left with / / / /. Underneath those boxes you write "Attack +1".

During combat you attack and digest one of those Bites, gaining +1 die to your attack pool. Afterwords your Bites are now X / / /.

>>48006483
>I'm sure you know what I actually meant, so why don't we skip ahead and you tell me how I should word it so there's no rules lawyering?
If this is a thing that we add, it should be written as "With the Backup (name pending) ability, you add X HP to the party HP pool. In addition, you gain a separate health pool with X HP in it that you may take damage from in place of taking damage from the team HP pool. Any excess damage overflows into the team HP pool."

This way, not only are you benefiting the team with the bonus health, but you still get your own pool.

However, I don't really see the issue with the team getting health in place of just you.

>additional reason to defend the squishy nukers, giving defensive units an active roll instead of being glorified stat sticks.
Thing is, everyone's effectively equal in regards to how squishy they are, because of the way stats and health work. A person with 7 Rhythm and a 3 in every other stat is just as powerful as someone with a 7 in Insight and a 3 in other stats. And even then, they're only slightly better than someone with a 4 in every stat, as they're more likely to do damage. "Stat sticks" aren't suffering at all if they can't take more damage, because there's so little difference between them and the minmaxed characters.

>>48006555
>Because that makes it much harder for a player to be built for defensive purposes.
No it doesn't. Get threads that reduce damage taken. Increase the group HP pool. You support the team with HP, they'll support you by destroying enemies faster.

>Going a route where ALL +HP bonuses go direct to the group HP total flattens character building options.
As I said, armour up. Threads that reduce damage taken will do exactly what we want. What you're proposing is 1) objectively worse than group HP, unless it's much more than group HP, and 2) reduces that teamwork aspect we were going for, as you aren't helping the team, you're helping yourself. There are other ways to build turtle warriors without resorting to tacking on more HP.

>>48006618
>you add X HP to the party HP pool
Can I ask why you included this part? I don't think it should be removed, but I'm not certain if it's worth complicating the calculation of the Party HP pool.

>X HP
why not have it scale, so that the effect can keep up with stat creep, and further encourage it for characters who are actually built for high HP totals?


>everyone's effectively equal in regards to how squishy they are, because of the way stats and health work
> A person with 7 Rhythm and a 3 in every other stat is just as powerful
when you say "powerful", are you talking about total HP they contribute? Because it kinda conflicts with the example I'm running off of here >>48006555

I was under the assumption that certain stats encourage high HP, and even some defensive characters can have low/mid HP but are good at negating, blocking or avoiding damage.

>>48006707
also see above. It's more like a different flavor of defensive building compared to armoring up or negating attacks.

>>48006730
>also see above. It's more like a different flavor of defensive building compared to armoring up or negating attacks.

Exactly. Having more than one way to build a character is never a bad thing.

Last thread we kind of brushed off the notion of Player Damage Reduction being a thing in order to keep the stats as simple as possible, but is that something we want to bring back to the discussion?

>>48006707
>You support the team with HP, they'll support you by destroying enemies faster.

From the last thread:

If a Player eats Food or wears Threads that boost HP, it's adding HP to the communal party total. He's not seeing any direct benefit from doing so. If Player A makes a decision that adds +5 HP to the party pool, then it's no different from if Player B makes that same decision, because it's all going to the same place.

Defense is slightly different, but fundamentally shares the same approach. By boosting your Defense (probably by adding extra dice to your Protect or defensive Psych rolls), you're attempting to reduce the total damage that the party takes. Where this matters is that a Player with low Defense is more of a party liability. If Player A has better Defense than Player B, he's better able to shield the communal HP from damage. If either Player A or Player B take 5 damage, it's the same effect (the Communal HP pool is reduced by 5), but Player A is better equipped to keep that from happening.

Attack is where the real difference is. A Player who prioritizes Attack in his Threads and Food will be better able to eliminate Noise than a Player who prioritizes HP or Defense. This is an obvious statement, but what we need to think about is "Is it more fun?" Some Players enjoy playing Tanky rolls, but a Player with lots of HP isn't himself Tanky-- the entire Party is. A Player with high Defense is indeed able to keep the party in battle longer, but that ability is undercut by Players with low Defense. This is kind of a tautology, but it's a bit more profound when there are only two states for the Party: either Everyone is Alive and Kicking or Everyone is Dead.

In short, by taking away the possibility of Player HP we'd be eliminating a major vector of defensive character building.

>>48006338
By the way this didn't get commented on so to add some info:

>We need to split enemy damage into their components. First is obviously Damage Value, how much it deals on hit. Next is Accuracy, the difficulty to dodge it.

Here's how combat works, as we currently have it:

Attack and Defense is an opposed roll. During the Player phase he choose a Psych he wants to use as an attack, then rolls a dice pool equal to the Stat it's resonant with and tries to roll at or under his Psych's Rank.

Noise can respond in a couple ways. They might do nothing and just take the damage, or they could Defend themselves. Noise's default defensive stat is called Bass; they dice equal to their base and try to roll under the Threat Level of the Encounter, which is basically its difficulty. This means that all Noise in a battle are dealing with the same Target Number, whether they're attacking or defending, so the only real question is how many dice they roll and what they do.

During the Noise Phase, Noise (usually) attack using their Treble Stat, again rolling at or under the Threat Rating for the encounter. Players can defend themselves with their Protect Skill or with one of their Psychs; by design defending with a Psych should be significantly more effective, given that Psychs have limited uses.

In the game where these mechanics are taken, Tenra Bansho Zero, the damage from an is Attacker's Successes - Defender's Successes + Weapon Modifier. So a Defender can still reduce damage from an attack even if they don't match the attacker's successors. One question we need to work out is if we want it to work the same way in this game.

>>48006730
>Can I ask why you included this part?
Helping the team.

>why not have it scale
Because new threads from new shops will want to be better. Item progression is important. It's the same as having multiple pins of the same type; some are objectively better than others. For high-level campaigns, give them high-level gear.

>when you say "powerful", are you talking about total HP they contribute?
No. I am talking about the relative strength (damage output) of that character. Long-range characters will deal less damage because they're working at range. Short-range characters will do more damage because balance. They have to move. Regardless, they're all doing lots of damage. The amount of HP they contribute is not important to the squishiness of the character in this game, as their HP is all going to be approximately even across the board (as it runs off the total stats). A person who has a stat array of 5, 1, 1, 1 (8) gives the same amount of HP to the party as someone with a stat array of 3, 3, 1, 1 (8).

>It's more like a different flavor of defensive building compared to armoring up or negating attacks.
How would you fluff it though?

>>48006895
Wow I really screwed this one up.
>they dice equal to their base

Should be:
>they roll dice equal to their Bass

>>48006899
>How would you fluff it though?
How are we fluffing communal HP in the first place? I haven't really given it much thought myself.

>>48006788
>He's not seeing any direct benefit from doing so.
He's seeing a direct benefit in that his team isn't dying as fast.

>If Player A makes a decision that adds +5 HP to the party pool, then it's no different from if Player B makes that same decision, because it's all going to the same place.
This is wrong, I think. If for some reason a player isn't in combat (they miss a session, for example, or he's dragged into a different fight somewhere else somehow) then not only is the team losing the HP from that guy, but also losing the HP from the threads. Also, regardless of how it's done, tank characters are contributing less damage to the enemies than the LASS player. Everything has a good thing and a bad thing. More power = less defense, as your threads are going to boost one or the other. If you heal for the turn, that means you aren't dealing damage and making combat end.

Adding HP to the party helps the whole team more than just him, but that said, the whole team benefits, not just him. The opposite is also true. A player who only buffs himself isn't helping the party at all.

>>48006899
>Helping the team.
Please elaborate.

>Item progression is important.
of course? That's why-

hangon

>>48006021
.....do Threads have flat stats like they do in the game, or are they purely "perks"?

>No. I am talking about the relative strength (damage output)
> as their HP is all going to be approximately even across the board
still not clear which one you mean for "powerful". Regardless, you're pushing for characters that have very little variation in combat stats?

When did we decide that
> A person who has a stat array of 5, 1, 1, 1 (8) gives the same amount of HP to the party as someone with a stat array of 3, 3, 1, 1 (8).
?
And even if that is the case, I still think Thread/Food/Sync choice should allow a character to contribute far more HP than others, but to make sure that they still have roles to play in the actual fight, they need to actually be the ones getting hit.

>>48006950
>>48006899
>How would you fluff it though?
Whether it's Symphony or Harmony, the representation is the Party's ability to maintain a stable connection with each other, how "in-tune" they are. Taking damage knocks them "out of tune", to a different beat/phase/etc. More HP means that they can get more out of tune and still manage to get back into the beat. Mitigation/Deflection is preparing for "noise" in advance and riding it out without getting off-balance.

>>48006950
"You have spiritually synchronized with the other players. Their pain is your own, as is their lifespan."

I'd imagine.

>>48007034
adding on, Losing means that the party disconnects from each other, and they take TIME to reconnect and get back in sync, hence the time loss.

Also, maybe some time was wasted running away from the noise.

>>48007034
>do Threads have flat stats like they do in the game, or are they purely "perks"?
My thought process is that Stats and "Perks" should be folded together under the umbrella of "Effects", hence why I didn't include areas for specific Stats in the Thread section on the character sheet. The reason being that tabletop games are generally less able to cope with the stat treadmill that console RPGs tend to revolve around. High numbers are almost always hard to deal with, so we keep the numbers manageable. That said there's no reason why we can't have a Thread with more than one effect (at a higher cost or rarity of course)

>>48006448
>If combos are per player, it'll encourage spamming combo pins, as there's no way a single hit can fill a combo. Ideally, combos should be based on the pins used. That way, the combo can be filled out regardless of the pin used.
Can you elaborate on this? I'm not sure I'm following.

Would combos need to be executed within a single turn for a player, or would they be carried over into the next turn if they weren't complete?

>>48007106
I'm asking because of the format.

Things like the effect that let's you keep the Puck for longer is a set effect, clearly defined so that you can put a name on it and that's that. The variation usually came when earlygame equipment with that effect had no other stats.

So are we throwing out the standardized formatting of named Effects?

>>48007153
I doubt it, standardization is a good thing. We just need to fold in numerical boosts along with it. Like a Thread could have "Attack +1; Hold That Puck 1" or "HP+10; More Defense Breaks 1", etc...

Is that what you mean?

>>48007181
Hmm. So it's Name+X, and the X is used as the variable in all descriptions? That could work.

>>48007034
>>48006899
okay, I concede on the effect not scaling.

>>48007034
>Please elaborate.
If you give yourself a bonus to what is normally a communal pool, and don't give anything else back, it feels a bit selfish.

>do Threads have flat stats like they do in the game, or are they purely "perks"?
I was under the impression it was flat bonuses or perks, depending on the threads.

>Regardless, you're pushing for characters that have very little variation in combat stats?
No. Not at all. It's just that a minmaxer would have the same HP as someone who has spread their point distribution.

>When did we decide that...
>>48006436
>The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value.
Around that point.

>but to make sure that they still have roles to play in the actual fight
But that's my point. Everyone already has the ability to do each job in combat. If everyone has a pin to attack with, they can all be attackers. If everyone has a healing pin, they can all heal the party. If they have pins that debuff, they can all debuff. Everything in combat is dictated by the pins you wear, so "roles" in combat generally are less prominent than other systems, and can change from battle to battle.

File: Character Sheet (colorless).pdf (1 B, 486x500) Image search: [Google]

1 B, 486x500

>>48006218
Here's a more printer friendly version.

Fun fact: I just discovered that you can copy fillable fields from one PDF to another! That will save me SO MUCH TIME when I have to edit these in the future. So much time. I'm on the verge of tears.

>>48007130
>Can you elaborate on this?
Sure thing.

The way I read your comment, a combo is X hits to combo for Rock. If X is a number larger than... 4, let's say, then anything with a single hit and costs 2 AP to use cannot be combo'd by Rock, unless he's using another pin to build that combo before the big hit. If it's combo by pin, and the pin says "combo 2," then Rock can combo with that pin, using that pin alone.

RnB, on the other hand, is rocking a flurry pin and cracks the combo every turn he attacks. If the pin has "Combo 5," then it's harder to combo for him, sure, but it also means that he's not able to abuse combo mechanics.

>Would combos need to be executed within a single turn for a player
Yep.

>>48007267
>If you give yourself a bonus to what is normally a communal pool, and don't give anything else back, it feels a bit selfish.
if you give yourself a bonus that is (mostly)only useful if you commit an active effort in combat to support the team(block hits aimed at other people), doesn't it feel selfless?

> Everything in combat is dictated by the pins you wear
AND the clothes you wear. AND the food you ate. AND the sync bonuses you bought.

Yes, keep a pin for attacking or debuffs for that one situation where you want an entire party doing the same task or the main person for a particular role is disabled and you need to compensate.

But we still have player builds. They're kind of what differentiates one Player from another mechanically? Of course they're not going to be good at doing a role they aren't geared for, so give them a role that is particularly suited for the build(stacking HP) without making that role "nothing really, because once you stacked HP you're done. Feel free to be terrible at any other role"

>>48007368
Alright that makes sense. Not sure how much I REALLY agree with it but it's not a hill I'm prepared to die on, so I'm willing to accept it. I'll add that field to the Pin sheet.

Questions:

1.) Are Pins counting Combo hits as successful Uses, or a certain number of successes rolled? Like we have for Shockwave that deal a finishing knockback when you get max successes, but Shockwave is kind of an exception even in the original game since it had a built-in finisher that others Psychs lacked.

2.) What place, if any, do Thread Abilities that modify your Combo have?

>>48007267
>When did we decide that...
>The Party has a collective pool of HP that we could call Group HP or Harmony or Spirit or something, which we were tentatively considering as the total of everyone's Stats, maybe plus some kind of base value.

It was raised last thread when I posted the idea in the first place, it got some yay posts and nobody objected so we moved ahead.

sleeeeeeeepyyyy

>>48007421
>if you give yourself a bonus that is (mostly)only useful if you commit an active effort in combat to support the team(block hits aimed at other people), doesn't it feel selfless?
Stacking defensive buffs gives the same effect without having to worry about tracking multiple health pools.

>AND the clothes you wear. AND the food you ate. AND the sync bonuses you bought.
Yes. Things that can be changed easily out of battle.

>so give them a role that is particularly suited for the build(stacking HP) without making that role "nothing really, because once you stacked HP you're done. Feel free to be terrible at any other role"
But if they've just stacked their own HP, it has the same effect, but only they benefit. They'll still be bad at combat in comparison to the strikers, and they're only going to soak damage because it's the only thing they can do, as opposed to, for example, remain back as support or maintain everyone's health levels at a decent amount, run interference or play beater or ranged. Having a separate HP basically forces them to tank for the party because that is now their only job. Giving everyone health removes that one option, but opens up multiple others. Tanking can be done effectively by people with high defense. People with high attack are the strikers. Health-buffing characters function best as support and buffs, but can function effectively as secondary tanks or strikers, given the correct gear.

Good morning /twewy/! Ah, that new thread smell!

>>48007368
>>48007456
I believe that the purpose of having combos be pin-based rather than player-based was to avoid combo abuse, as has been said. A powerful pin that has 2 uses, 3 AP each, would be objectively inferior to a weaker pin that has 6 uses, 1 AP each, if the weaker pin can push out three equivalent combos. It does depend on what pushing out a combo means outside of the puck however.

I had assumed that a combo was counted by the number of successes earned by that pin which somewhat correlates with uses. For example, something like Shockwave might only require a single success per successful hit, while something like Piercing Pillar R might require two or three. From my understanding we're folding accuracy and damage into a single dice roll: If it gets enough successes it hits and does minimum damage; if it doesn't, then it doesn't.

As for Threads, we could certainly have Threads abilities that change up your combo.

Regarding tanking, we also discussed last thread about having options for taking hits for other players. There will presumably be ways to increase one's ability to guard or evade attacks, and as we said before, one could move into another measure and block an enemy's attacks for someone else. You don't have to necessarily draw aggro, though we could consider abilities with that as well, so much as intervene though reactions.

I'll also note that the ONLY player who "has to" execute a combo in a given round is the one with the puck. Everyone else is free to do as they will.

>>>48007267
I'm in favour of "communal HP based on total stats", though one could modify that with HP boosts. I'm also in favour of having additional optional "individual HP" which is essentially like armour.

>>48007656
There will be Threads that give bonuses to Party HP. There will be Threads that give a personal HP.

They don't have to be on the same article of clothing.

>>48007456
>1.) Are Pins counting Combo hits as successful Uses, or a certain number of successes rolled? Like we have for Shockwave that deal a finishing knockback when you get max successes, but Shockwave is kind of an exception even in the original game since it had a built-in finisher that others Psychs lacked.
Depends on the pin. For big, single hit attacks, combo would be successful uses, as they're running off multiple rolled successes to hit. For combo-based pins, it's successes rolled because we'll still have a max amount of successes per attack denoting how many small attacks hit. That max amount would generally be the amount to combo, so it's possible to do it with one roll if you're lucky.

>2.) What place, if any, do Thread Abilities that modify your Combo have?
Depending on what our combo does, extending the combo would either be incredibly useful or useless. Or it could increase the max hits for a multi-hit pin, or it could modify the combo ending attack to do something special (push back, knock down, knock into the air, status ailments, what have you) so it's always possible that it would come in handy.

It'd be especially useful for someone with a psyche that hits multiple enemies with the finisher.

>>48007680
>Good morning /twewy/!
And a big good evening to you!

>>48007706
Hmm...
I suppose. I'm not entirely sold on it, but since everyone is so in favour of it, I guess.

Just kinda figured that, since we were going communal HP like the game, we wouldn't be using individual HP as well.

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>>48007894
It's extremely hard to work out a system that uses Pure communal HP because it takes away a lot of situational tension from the game. With pure Communal HP, the party only has two conditions: everyone is alive or everyone is beaten.

If characters can have Player HP as well, then it adds a little bit of nuance to that. The Party still stands and falls together, but each Player also has a reserve of personal vitality which serves the party (nothing bad happens to them if their HP is drained, and it incentivizes them to take actions which direct damage to them instead of other players).

Here's a new Draft of the Pin Sheet. Does everyone agree on how it looks?

>>48007894
Good evening to you as well.

As for communal v. individual HP, perhaps it would be better if we called the individual HP something different a la armour. Saying, "if you have armour [or whatever], you take damage from that armour first before HP" is fine. I would, however, say that we should be doing more active roles, such as the interception/boosts to evasion that I was discussing earlier. I think it's more fun and strategic than merely adding on HP, though that should also be viable.

>>48007817
>Or it could increase the max hits for a multi-hit pin, or it could modify the combo ending attack to do something special (push back, knock down, knock into the air, status ailments, what have you) so it's always possible that it would come in handy.
I like this. We should definitely have combo add-ons. By the way, I know that you were discussing the issue with player roles being changeable outside of battle, but I think that that's a feature, not a drawback. In the DS game you could try many different strategies as long as you had the stats and cash necessary to equip things, and we do have some gating involved with personal stats. But we should be able to switch out strategies as is needed.

>>48007987
>If characters can have Player HP as well, then it adds a little bit of nuance to that. The Party still stands and falls together, but each Player also has a reserve of personal vitality which serves the party (nothing bad happens to them if their HP is drained, and it incentivizes them to take actions which direct damage to them instead of other players).
Eh, fair enough.

>Here's a new Draft of the Pin Sheet. Does everyone agree on how it looks?
Noice.

>>48008023
Goodnight Jazzman, nice working with you today. Though we don't see eye to eye on EVERYTHING I'm glad that we can both compromise. You're an asset to this project.

>>48008050
As are you, friend. It's good to bounce ideas off each other.

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Fillable Pin Sheet.

This should be all we need. Time to get to work fellas.

>>48008421
Looks fantastic, great work.

Is there a image file or a website that contains images of all the Noise and each Pin? That would be useful to have.

>>48008922
http://www.spriters-resource.com/mobile/worldendswithyousoloremix/sheet/50343/
pins here, or use the wiki.

Question for Shockwave and Combos:

Right now we have its Damage and Effects as follows:
>2 per success, Max. 3 successes
>If you deal Max Damage, knock the target Noise back one Measure

Does that mean that Shockwave has a 3-Success Combo with a Knockback Finisher? Or is its Combo something totally different?

>>48009115
I feel that Combo finisher should always be the max amount of successes for an attack, as it's the max amount of "hits" you can make in one attack. That would make it a 3-Success Combo with a Knockback Finisher, yes. It has an in-built Finisher mechanic. Combo is relative to the maximum amount of hits possible in a single use.

>>48009203
Persuant to that, a Combo with Shockwave is only possible if you roll 3 Successes in a single Use? That seems a little unforgiving, especially at the start of the game where that Pin is designed to be used.

What if instead the Combo was "Score 3 Successes in a single Round." That way it's possible to get one Combo per Use is you roll very well, or one Combo per Round if you roll modestly well, but still fail your Combo if you roll poorly in general.

>>48009269
That was what I had intended to say, yes. I didn't mean that you had to roll perfectly with each use, but to get combo, you need it in that round.

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>>48009316
Gotcha, makes perfect sense then.

So it would look something like this:

>>48009397
Yup, that's exactly what I'm talking about.

Not all pins will have finishers built in, or their finishers will be additional damage or something, but Threads and food can change that.

Should we have stacking Combo and Finisher effects or should we have replacing effects?

Also, just to make sure, Rank is what is needed to roll at or below to hit, correct? Because if that's the case, would starting pins start around Rank 4? Starting at Rank 1 seems a bit harsh.

>>48009499
I'd say replacing Effects.

And yes I agree that giving starting Pins at Rank 4 or so is a good idea; we haven't really discussed how to rank up new Pins yet.

>>48009560
Either Sync or Soul. I think we have Sync listed in the "Great Big Google Doc of Everything(tm) (patent pending)," but you're right in that we haven't really talked about it.

Also, how would you word cure drink? Just as it was in the game, 50% of your total, or equal to the amount of health you bring to the communal pool?

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>>48009674
Shouldn't you be in bed now?

For Cure Drink, I was thinking that it restores Bravery+Successes to the Group HP, and if that is filled then the rest goes to your personal HP.

>>48008922
The wiki has the larger versions of all the pins.

They aren't in the game, they might be from promo material.

>>48009905
Yup that's where I got these>>48009824 from. They're beautiful although I need to save the file as a reduced size PDF to be postable here, otherwise it's like 17mb because of how high-res the pin images are.

>>48009824
Yes, I should. I'll do that soon.

>Bravery+Successes
I could see that. I'd rather it be for Insight though. I'm guessing different brands use different Stats, like, I think Mus Rattus have one too, which can use... I dunno, Flow or something. Tigre Punks would run off Bravery for sure.

Alright, NOW I go bed. Night all. Keep the thread warm for me.

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Updated Cure Drink.

How about Force Rounds? Force Rounds is stated explicitly to be short range, so for Range
maybe 0-1, which means to be balanced against Shockwave it should deal 1 damage per Success. What about AP/Uses?

>>48010297
What's the maximum damage we want Force Rounds/Shockwave to be able to do? Max here meaning after 7 days.

>>48010297
Something like 1AP/4 max?

Alright for the purposes of developing Psychs I made this Google Sheet:

https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzaK2H1btEJedUjH_8iyva_Qa2YBKDYDR3j3KBzFCtw/edit?usp=sharing

The Pins that I've recorded so far are from the TWEWY wiki (http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/Pin_List_A), and are Pins that you get from Events starting from early in the game through the end of the game (I still need to add the ones for Another Day, and I didn't include any of the Tin-Pins either).

Next up we need to add Pins dropped by Noise from the beginning of the game through the end game, and then Purchasable Pins. That will give us a good idea of when you have access to what Pins, which will be a decent gauge for the game's Psych progression.

Once we have all the Pins we can make tabs to sort Psychs by Resonance, to make sure that the four Stats are roughly balanced, and by Psych, so that we can determine the power progression of the Psychs, measured in Magnitude.

Make sense?

Also I'm off for today, I'll probably pop in later tonight to see how the thread's doing.

>>48011696
Don't the Tin Pin X pins not have psychs aside from Ifrit, Shiva, Golem, and Bahamut?

>>48011696
Because I'm OCD about this stuff, I'm probably going to start putting the input types, and maybe even brands on the document.

>>48012051
>>48011696
And brands are already in there, maybe I should look at this shit first.

>>48011844
I remember using Tin Pin Artist to devastating effect my first play-though. I'll check.

...

Ah-ha!

Tin Pin Wind has the Patrol Rounds psych, TP Wheel has (obviously) Velocity Attack, Sun Scorch has Flame Blast, Rocker has Street Jam, Custom has Burst Rounds, Blade has Vortex Sabre, Ifret has Time Block, Artist has Lightening Bolt, Devil has Patrol Rounds, Hellfire has Flame Core, and Fire has Ignition. Shiva, Golem, and Bahamut, as you've mentioned, have Piercing Pillar, Earthquake, and Nexus Ray. I think that's all of them.

They all seem to be UNBRANDED however, and I can easily see how lacking a Psych and lacking a Brand could be confused.

>>48012417
What might have happened is that I looked at the stats and saw that they were almost always much lower than normal, so I never used them.

I'll throw those in the doc, since they're all event obtainable.

>>48012479
:O That would make total sense. By end game their only purpose is looking cool.

I added Resonance for the Tin Pins, per the Psycholopedia.

What's Sacrifice do? I don't recognize that one. It's on Tin Pin Thrift.

>>48013855
Sacrifice puts you at critical + SOS Attack.

When in doubt, wiki.
http://twewy.wikia.com/wiki/Sacrifice

nump

one more bump for the night

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>>48017486
it goes bump in the night!

>>48013855
Tin Pin Thrift is also an essential part of LASS, might I add. Unless you wanted to be smacked in the face repeatedly at the beginning of every fight. Geez, you guys got work done.

>>48019216
I'll also give it a kick.

>>48020514
We work hard BECAUSE we play hard. Also something about a gay steel mill.

Morning bump. Lots to do today. I'll be working on this in a couple hours when I get to my computer.

I added the rest of the Event Pins from Another Day; most of them were Tin Pins and are already in the list but there were a few outliers.

Next up is Pins that drop from Noise.

>>48020514
Hey man, stick around for a bit! We can always use more input.

Here's some ideas I had regarding Pin ranks and Evolution.

I'm thinking that it's impractical to force Players to always start a new Psych at Level 1 the way it is in the game. Tabletop mechanics make starting from scratch a huge disadvantage and they also make grinding difficult. Even if we can get easy combats down a lightning fast 5 minutes or so, that's still five times longer than your average junk Noise encounter in the original game. The fact of the matter is that we shouldn't expect Noise grinding to occur in the same way it does in the source material.

I don't just want to say "All Pins start at Rank X" though; I think instead we should reward Players for leveling Pins by allowing that effort to be carried over from one Pin to another.

Here's the premise:

When a Player receives a new Pin, it's possible to carry over Ranks from an existing Pin under certain circumstances. For the time being we'll call this Psych Migration, though I'm personally a fan of Metempsychosis, though that may be a bit excessive.

1.) The new Pin must have greater Magnitude than the Pin being Migrated.
2.) The new Pin must have the same Resonance as the Pin being Migrated.

So if you have a Magnitude-1 Shockwave Pin and you acquire a Magnitude-2 Force Rounds Pin, you can transfer some of the ranks from that Shockwave Pin to the Force Rounds Pin, because they both use Rhythm.

How it works is based on the difference in Magnitude. When you Transfer a Pin's Ranks to a new Pin, you lose Ranks equal to the difference between their Magnitudes. So in the above example, you'd lose 1 Rank when migrating from your Mag-1 Shockwave Pin to your Mag-2 Force Rounds.

If the two Pins are from different Brands, then an additional Rank is lost in the process.

If the two Pins have the exact same Brand AND Psych, then it counts as Evolution instead of Migration. This reduces the Rank loss by 1, so if you Evolve a Mag-1 Shockwave Pin into a Mag-2 Shockwave Pin, you don't lose any Ranks.

(cont.)

>>48023630
However, the maximum number of Ranks a new Pin can acquire via either Migration or Evolution is 4. If you have a Mag-1 Shockwave Pin at Rank 7, and you want to Evolve it into a Mag-2 Shockwave Pin that you've acquired, that Mag-2 Shockwave can only acquire 4 Ranks; Ranks 5-7 will need to be earned via normal means.

This system pretty much gets rid of complex Evolution trees which work fine in the orignal game as part of the puzzle aspect of Pins but are harder to manage at the table. It also makes it so that a Player's effort at leveling a Pin isn't forfeited as soon as they get a newer, better Pin, and it gives new Pins a nice initial Rank Boost so they aren't totally useless off the bat.

>>48023645
Why not make Pin Fusion? Carry over half the ranks (but keep it like yours, 4 is the max end result) but the other pin is destroyed. Same brand trades up to 5 ranks instead, and trading to a different psyche is only 3 ranks (both cancel each other, making it 4 again).

You can trade only between 1 Mag of the fused pin (a Mag-2 pin can only be fused into a Mag-1, Mag-2 or Mag-3) and can only be traded into a pin with a lower rank than it's own. It has to have the same Resonance.

It's like your idea, but I think it feels simpler to me.

>>48011643
Hmmm what about this:

Force Rounds deals 1-6AP, with each AP you spend dealing 1 damage if you successfully break through a Noise's defense. That kind of replicates Force Round's rapid fire quality, and it's useful as a filler (you can just fire 1 Round if you've got a spare AP after your main attack). It also avoids having the Player make 4-6 separate rolls for each attack, which would take forever.

Thoughts?

>>48024353
Good modifications. So here's how it works:

>1. You can perform Pin Fusion on Pins that are within 1 Mag of each other.
>2. Pins giving up their Ranks during Fusion are called Donors. A Pin receiving Ranks during Fusion is the Vessel. Donors and Vessels must have the same Resonance. Fusion involves at least one Donor and exactly one Vessel.
>3. Donor Pins must be within 1 Mag of the Vessel Pin.
>4. The Vessel Pin receives half the total Ranks of the Donor Pins
>5. With Normal Fusion, the Vessel Pin can receive at most 4 Ranks.
>6. Skewed Fusion occurs if the Donors and Vessel have different Psychs. Vessels in Skewed Fusion can only receive 3 Ranks.
>7. Brand Fusion occurs if the Donors and Vessel have the same Brand. Vessels in Brand Fusion can receive a maximum of 5 Ranks.

How's that look to you? This allows you to fuse multiple Donor Pins into a single Vessel Pin.

>>48024540
Multiple fusions can muddy the water between what can give you 4 ranks and 5 ranks. I mentioned specifically that if it was the same brand but a different psyche, it would balance out to 4 ranks, but I don't know what would happen if it was dealing with multiple pins of differing brands and psyches.

Seems fine otherwise.

>>48024382
How about, as an effect, because it's a 1 AP per attack, you can say you spend additional AP when you use it to add more dice to the attack pool, equal to another attack with the pin, but uses an additional use. It allows players to roll multiple attacks at once, as well as make the most out of your bites that add more damage to your attacks. It feels a bit more like a shotgun, is my main deal with this though.

Players like rolling lots of dice though, so adding something to do that is always a good time.

>>48024792
>Multiple fusions can muddy the water between what can give you 4 ranks and 5 ranks.
Fair point, but I think it can be worded to be more clear. As it stands it's harder to get 5 Ranks (all Pins must be the same Brand) and easy to be stuck with 3 Ranks (if one even one Donor is the wrong Psych). If all Pins are the same Brand but one Donor is the wrong Psych, then the Brand and Skewed Fusions cancel out, which I think is a fair balance.

>you can say you spend additional AP when you use it to add more dice to the attack pool
I like this, I think I'll go with it; we'll have to come up with a different kind of mechanic for Energy Rounds to set them apart, but yeah that definitely feels like a good way to do a shotgun type attack.

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Force Rounds pin updated. What should the Combo and Finisher be?

By the way I'm thinking of adding a slim section to the bottom of each Pin with a little bit of flavor text, like MtG cards.

>>48025271
Combo could be 4 plus 1 per AP spent this turn on it. That means minimum 5, max 10 if you don't move and only attack with it. However, doing the math, it'd be better to attack multiple times per round, as you can spend 3 attacks at 2 AP each for X+1 rolls, as opposed to 1 X+3, which would be using all AP possible. I suppose the benefit is only using 1 AP, but I think it should be more incentivising, giving +2 attack dice per extra AP, and making it 1-3 AP instead. That's a +6 dice, but even then, you can still only get 5 successes.

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>>48025844
I'm of the mind that we should be discouraging players from taking many actions in one turn, on the grounds that it will slow down combat, so any Combo encouraging multiple rolls doesn't seem like that good of an idea to me.

Updated Pin sheet, with flavor text added. I also added info for Pyrokinesis, per my ideas last thread.

>>48026396
>any Combo encouraging multiple rolls doesn't seem like that good of an idea to me.
Well yeah, but you missed the first bit where I said they could attack using only 1 AP multiple times, resulting in more die rolls and therefore more time wasted. Using a tighter limit on AP, but more dice to roll, such as 2 dice per extra AP, then it's a more viable strategy to burn more AP on one attack.

Either that or make the starting attack cost 2 AP instead of 1, so it seems like a bigger AP sink than it currently is.

>>48026837
Can you write it as it would be printed on the pin sheet?

>>48027040
AP: 2-4
Effects: Each additional AP spent in a single use adds 2 dice to the attack pool.

I imagine other pins later add more dice, but at the level where they're using them here, 2 dice is approximately half the highest stat they have, meaning it's equally as effective and more efficient to spend AP, but can also limit themselves if they want to do other things that round too.

>>48027213
So it's 2 dice per extra AP? So if you spend 4 AP you're getting an extra 4 dice? Just want to make sure I'm reading this right.

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Pin Sheet updated with Force Rounds data added.

For Psychokinesis, my thought would be that it's damage is based on the object used. Since it only affects smaller objects that damage would be relatively small, so how does [Object Damage] + Successes sound?

Your Successes also deal damage to the Object you're using, and if that exceeds the Object's durability then it breaks and can't be used for further Psychokinesis. I imagine that this breakage satisfies the Psych's Combo. Do we agree?

Also, what should the range be? 0-1? 0-2?

>>48028107
I vote 0-2. This way means that the starting pin setup gives a range of 0, 0-1, 0-2, and whatever thunder will be. You aren't hyper effective vs. any particular range by default, and you don't begin with any particular weak ranges. The pins in this scenario give you a nicely rounded starter kit, while still leaving room for specialization.

>>48028356
How about 1-2 for Thunderbolt? As in you can't target Noise in the Measure that you're sitting in. Makes sense since you're conjuring lightning bolts and probably don't want them to be too close to you.

>>48028444
Sounds like a good plan. 2 pins with 2 range, 3 with 1 range and 4 with 0 range sounds about right as far as a starter kit. What might be an option in character creation is to replace one of the starter pins with something branded. Like getting Leopard instead of Cure Drink if the character likes Lapin Angelique.

>>48028578
The goal right now is to create a list of Magnitude 0 Pins, which will be the base form of each Psych. For instance, the Magnitude 0 version of Piercing Pillar is Ice Blow, which is a D+B Pin. They don't need to be Unbranded necessarily; it's just that the collection of Pins Neku gets at the start of the game are.

It's necessary because, as our system has it, the Six starting Pins are 2 Rhythm, 3 Flow and 1 Bravery, and the Bravery Pin doesn't actually do any damage. Which is why I'm building this file:

>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzaK2H1btEJedUjH_8iyva_Qa2YBKDYDR3j3KBzFCtw/edit#gid=0

Because I want to figure out what the Magnitude 0 Pins for each Psych will be. That's going to be the foundation for our Pin collection.

I've updated the Master Pin list (above) with Pins that drop from Noise through the end of Week 3; I'll tackle Another Day tomorrow.

Man the TWEWY wiki just destroys my browser. It's taking forever to fill out the Pin List.

bumping, though it doesn't look like this thread's gonna last the night. Must be a slow day.

>>48032142
My apologies for not weighing in: my life has become rather hectic in the past few days but it should clear up soon.

I do like where things are headed, so kudos to you.

>>48032310
No worries, this is just a side project for me during downtime at work. Everyone understands. It's not the end of the world if a thread gets archived prematurely.

I am really excited about these pins coming together though. It means playability is just around the corner.

>>48027452
yes

>>48032632
Same, that's why I am only really on during the evenings here. Luckily, I start late too.

buuuump

What's the scale of magnitude?

And should everything be on the scale from the games, or should we boost some things?

>>48035231
The upper limits of the scale are unknown at this point; right now my plan is just to add +1 for each new tier of Psych, with some Pins with the same Psychs having equal Magnitude if they are roughly the same in power but with different characteristics (see especially the Force Rounds and Energy Rounds Pins, of which there are about five million different kinds).

I'm off for tonight, see you folks in the AM (EST).

Were the stats supposed to be the four temperaments from the start?

>>48035282
Oh, because I was going to start with the big ones and work down.
OK then.

>>48035478
Not explicitly; can you elaborate?

>>48036084
They're the four temperaments/humors.
Rhythm is choleric: ambitious, impulsive, quick to anger, and full of energy or passion. Seek respect and recognition. Beat
Bravery is sanguine: warm and happy, imaginative, courageous. May be flighty. Shiki

The other two humors the introvert ones overlap a bit, so these two blend in a way I'm not fond of. At least emphasize the difference between 'analytical' and 'thoughtful.'
Flow is phlegmatic: calm and peaceful, patient, thoughtful. Seeks peace and consistency. Neku
Insight is Melancholic: quiet, serious, analytical, suspicious. Sympathetic. Joshua

>>48032310
I think that's everyone's problem right now.

What kind of character would you make?

>>48036278
Hah, that wasn't my intent but I'm glad it works out that way.

Alright, so the Master Pin List has been updated with all non-Event Pins that drop from Noise. That took FOREVER.

Now I need to do Pins that can only be bought and Pins that can only be evolved. Gettin' there!

So here's a question about Psychs:

As I've been adding Pins to the Master List, I've found that there's a clear lack of Flow Pins and an over-abundance of Bravery and Insight Pins.

Right now, we have it so that debuffing Psychs like Attack Blight resonate with Insight while Healing Psychs like Cure Drink resonate with Bravery. The reasoning for those is that debuffing is all about identifying weaknesses in your enemies, which is arguably Insight, and healing keeps you in the fight longer, which is arguably Bravery.

But for the interests of balance, what about making these Flow Psychs? Debuffing with Flow would follow as it involves thinking outside the box (attacking your foes stats instead of them directly) and keeping up your combat stride with healing. What do we think of that?

my mind is in too many places to think clearly about Pins/Psychs.

>>48005243
is this for real? is that fashion disaster going to kill that slut?

>>48041235
You, too, can be a fashion disaster with psychic powers in this game!

And that's it for the buyable Pins. Last up is the Evolution-only Pins and then we'll have a list of all available Pins that we can start stating.

>>48041235
He isn't a fashion disaster. He is a spicy tuna roll.

Working on adding the Evolution only Pins to the Master List.

Question: what's the difference between Gimme Dat Hippo and Gimme Dat Elephant? They both evolve from Gimme Dat Sheep (via different forms of PP), but as far as I can tell they have the same characteristics.

>>48042258
Literally the only difference is their tin pin abilities.

I've added all of the Pins that I could figure out from the Wiki to the Pin Master List, and the end number I've reached is 260. This is ignoring the Brand Resonance Pins, because their Magnitude is irrelevant, and all of Yen and Metal Pins, since they have no combat value. Hopefully I'm not missing any, or if I am it's only a few.

>https://docs.google.com/spreadsheets/d/1ZzaK2H1btEJedUjH_8iyva_Qa2YBKDYDR3j3KBzFCtw/edit#gid=0

I've also added two Tabs:

The first is Pins by Resonance. According to this Tab, excluding the ones that are marked as ?, here's how many Pins we have for each Stat under our current system:

Rhythm: 56
Insight: 62
Flow: 57
Bravery: 71

That's honestly a LOT closer than I imagined. Obviously some of the Bravery Pins can be migrated to other Stats to balance them out a little more.

The second Tab is Pins by Psych. This is going to be really helpful one because we will be able to assign Magnitude values for each Pin of each Psych.

Take Apport, for example. It would appear that the weakest Apport Pin is Meteor Magnet, so it's the Mag-0 version of Apport. Impact Warning is only slightly more powerful, whereas Meteor Hook is significantly stronger than Impact Warning; so we could say that Impact Warning is Mag-1 and Meteor Hook is Mag-2, or they are both Mag-1 and Impact Warning can have different characteristics to compensate for the fact that it has a lower damage output.

Daruma and Meteor Hook also have the same damage. Daruma has fewer uses but a faster reboot time so the two of them should have the same Mag value.

>>48042521
Don't forget that Bravery currently contains all the healing pins, which can be spread to Flow and Insight fairly easily.

It looks to me that we can generally cap out Magnitude at 10. There are a couple of Psychs with 11-13 Pins associated with them, but given that we start at Mag-0 and some Pins will probably have equal Mag we should be able to keep to that cap.

>>48042715
I have no issue with this.

Bed time bump, I'll see what's up in the morning.

Alright here's what we have so far for Mag-0 Pins. It's a pretty good collection:

Meteor Magnet (Apport) -Pavo Real
Cure Drink (Cure Drink) -Unbranded
Happy Beam (Energy Rounds) -Natural Puppy
Love Me Tether (Entanglement) -Natural Puppy
Candle Service (Explosion) -Mus Rattus
Burning Cherry (Flame Core) -Mus Rattus
Force Rounds (Force Rounds) -Unbranded
Cornered Rat (Holy Light) -Mus Rattus
Ichimonji (Lance Lunge) -JotM
Kewl Line (Massive Hit) -Wild Boar
Pop Pendulum (Patrol Rounds) -Natural Puppy
Ice Blow (Piercing Pillar) -D+B
Psychokinesis (Psychokinesis) -Unbranded
Pyrokinesis (Pyrokinesis) -Unbranded
Shockwave (Shockwave) -Unbranded
Lightning Moon (Spark Core) -Mus Rattus
Aqua Monster (Splash Core) -Mus Rattus
Unjo (Stellar Flurry) -JotM
Shout (Street Jam) -Mus Rattus
Octo Squeeze (Sweeper) -Sheep Heavenly
Thunderbolt (Thunderbolt) -Unbranded
Wassup Thunder! (Thunderstorm) -Hip Snake
Velocity Attack (Velocity Attack) -Tigre Punks
Lightning Anger (Vortex Saber) -Tigre Punks
Murasame (Vulcan Uppercut) -JotM

As an outsider to the project, classifying pins in a massively OTT way like this is probably counterproductive.

1) it increases complexity, without much payoff except theme
2) people don't necessarily want to wade through every type of psych- some people just want to animate their pig and make it hit people.

What you're doing here is offering *less* choice than if you made a looser system. I'd suggest a system something like, choose powers at character gen, 4-5 psychs at most, and then GM/players tie each psych to an appropriate pin name. Later, GM can use upgraded versions of people's psychs as bait, to lead the players into doing interesting things, or as rewards for specific awesomeness.

You can just have links to the existing pin wiki/psych, or lists of names/psych and it's probably fine. Admittedly there's a lot of attraction in keeping some of the highest level pins unique- the taboo series, or boss pins for example, but I think you should be building the psych system with flexibility in mind. If you don't have a way to replicate the wierd pin-combo attacks that beat and shiki do, then you aren't using the advantages of pnp against videogame.

>>48043709
You raise some valid points, which is why its good to have outsider input on projects like this, so it doesn't get suffocated by the echo-chamber.

The problem faced by opening the Psych aspect of the game up is whether it detracts too much from the themes and style of the game. Yes it makes the GM's job easier but how do you adhere to the soul of the source material? I'm not saying it can't be done, just that I personally don't have a clear idea of that kind of execution with this system in mind. The Psych system is pretty broad in the amount of things you can do, and the stylishness of Pins is a significant draw; capturing both of those ideas while keeping the game mechanical sound is tricky.

>>48044103
>>48043709
I'm not sure why we can't have both. These are the "official" pins, but we include rules for creating your own.

What do you mean by the weird pin-combo attacks that Beat and Shiki do?

>>48043441
How's that looking as far as stat distribution of RFIB? I know we were talking about a lack of Flow psychs earlier, with which I agree.

>>48044704
Very even actually.

Bravery: 7
Flow: 6
Insight: 6
Rhythm: 7

>>48044704
Specifically I mean that they either use 1 pin in a wierd, different way to Neku, or that they use multiple pins at the same time, since he doesn't do anything similar to them.

>>48044103
More specifically, the absolute worst part of this system is pin evolution. It's complex for the sake of having all the pins be 'options'. It runs the risk of having too long/session being spent with players looking up how to evolve their pins, trawling shops individually, then not being able to find the necessary tools to do what they want. You need some really robust random drop tables baked into the game (and i'd really really suggest not making it /enemy, but rather by difficulty more generally).

Beyond, that, you don't need it for stat progression. You can tie stat increases to story resolution, because you cleverly made all 4 stats mental attributes- it *makes sense* to grow braver, or better at keeping rhythm as your character progresses through their personal arc. Experience is not particularly a mechanic in the source material, and pin strength really is, but it'd be easier to abandon it for a simplified, or reduced, set of benefits to having 'stronger' pins. Note this also penalises players less for liking specific designs- if 90% of a character's stats is coming from the base character (and threads?), then you can make a decision not to upgrade because of out-of-game reasons. You don't have to make your cute hippo pin into a whale pin.

>>48044980
>More specifically, the absolute worst part of this system is pin evolution.
Actually we're tossing out Pin Evolution in favor of Pin Fusion, where you can take the ranks you've built in One pin and transfer some of them into a new pin, as long as they're resonant with the same Stat. If The Pins have the same Psych and Brand, that's even better, but as it stands you can take a Mus Rattus Shockwave Pin and fuse some of its ranks into a JotM Stellar Flurry Pin no problem. That way you don't need to start each new Pin off at Rank 1, AND it eliminates the original game's intentionally obtuse evolution puzzles. So there's that in our favor. I only have evolution methods listed in the Master Pin list as a reference to help figure out Magnitude.

You do bring up an interesting point with this though:
>You don't have to make your cute hippo pin into a whale pin.
There's something appealing about this. So much of TWEWY is about style, aesthetics and expression that maybe there's something to be said about building characters abilities around that instead of pinning them from the top down. There are like 300 Pins in the game, but only about 30 or so Psychs, which isn't a terrifically high number, especially considering we only have 4 Stats and 9 Skills. In the interests of players expressiveness, more open ended Psych design around that is worthwhile to consider.

(It would be easy as pie if we were using the One Roll Engine but that would require rewriting huge swathes of the game).

>>48044980

(got confused earlier between Evolution and Fusion- both are overcomplex but Fusion definitely main offender atm.)

I'll suggest a few alternate directions (and am offering precisely 0 help with implementation because I'm a shit).

1) do something ridiculous, like making each pin a custom psych, probably with a reduced total list, include blank options for player/GM innovation

2) put more of the work on the GM, by having the players choose their psychs and how they work either from a list like the psychs actually in the game, or as a trait-like system (ie, slashattack + flame +knockup; beam +heal +affects party as mockup built ideas)- then using the pins themselves as less of a strict system to be adhered to, and more of a sourcebook, where a player's custom 'spiderman's webs' psych might use the names and art of say, Kewl Line etc. - this ends up looking like option 1 from a player's perspective, would have to include a semi-robust psych creation toolkit, but a lot less work on specific pin design.

3) at this point i started thinking about narrativist design, taking more inspiration from AW than anything... but it really doesnt fit with the game as designed so far, or the jrpg nature of the original game. It'd be great to do psychs as more of a 'oh i have a telekinetic piggy, what can it do?', but the combat is already very granular so there's no real point.


Two things I'm absolutely sure about is that Pin Evolution (AND ESPECIALLY FUSION) needs to be much less systematically regulated, and that the stats on individual pins need to be less important. You can make dense systems in your game, you just shouldn't make them mandatory for progression.

Again, you could move in multiple directions on either of those. Maybe increase player options by reducing limitations on evolution (ie- choose between 2 evolutions rather than have to meet requirements for 1).

>>48044980
I'm actually in agreement on this. I think that it'd be better to have some possible evolution as in the game, but that upgrading your pin instead is a perfectly viable way of playing. Perhaps there's a way to make your current pins have a more magnitude. For example, say that you have a Thunderbolt pin of Magnitude-1 and you acquire one of Magnitude-3. Perhaps you can merge them, keeping the pin that was Magnitude-1 but now having it be Magnitude-3.

Alternatively, we keep the idea of Magnitude-whatever pins/psychs but let people fluff the specific pin designs however they want.

>>48044980
You could use a single pin if you wanted, especially i you had one that had a fast boot while using all of your AP. You can also use more than one per turn. I agree that we can't quite emulate Shiki/Beat/Joshua's way of doing things given that their major thing is a sort of minigame for the player. Having the tactical options of multiple pins, I think, is better and more enjoyable for players, so it's based more on Neku.

>>48044892
Nice! Good. What are we doing about multi-stat pins?

>>48045259
>You could use a single pin if you wanted, especially i you had one that had a fast boot while using all of your AP. You can also use more than one per turn. I agree that we can't quite emulate Shiki/Beat/Joshua's way of doing things given that their major thing is a sort of minigame for the player. Having the tactical options of multiple pins, I think, is better and more enjoyable for players, so it's based more on Neku.
It's also worth noting that the actual mechanics of how each Psych works is up to the player. By default, players must channel their Psych through a medium, so one player might use a cellphone like Joshua while another could use a guitar or a pair of glasses. So the actual behavior of a Psych isn't hard-coded, just its mechanics effects.

>Nice! Good. What are we doing about multi-stat pins?
I dunno. That in particular isn't one of my ideas and I don't really have much input on it.

>>48045208
As I've said before, I think that players/GMs should be able to create custom pins etc. if they so choose.

I also think that we should have multiple branching options. Categorising pins by magnitude is a good idea, but maybe we could have options of upgrading. For example, you've reached rank 7 on your Gimme Dat Hippo and you want to upgrade it; you can spend the upgrade points on increased damage, range, another ability, etc., and move it up one magnitude.

>>48045322
Do you disagree with the idea of multi-stat pins? I believed that we were going to try to do it for psychs that have multiple input methods.

>>48045167
sry i typed the second wall without waiting for reply, just cause I wanted to finish my own thoughts.

re fusion- idk i've thought again about this now i've actually noticed how you kept pin ranks (rather than just having a binary 'ready to level/not ready to level'). I'm already more sold on the version made so far than I was on initial impression.

This would all come under my heading of 'pin stats' from earlier- I still think there might be too much on the individual pin's sheet, even though I got it wrong on 'pins directly boost player stats'.
I definitely think you're double dipping on pin ranks/stronger pins. Maybe allow pins to scale indefinitely (decreasing exponentially?), to allow for 'favourite pins', but have higher tier pins be very slightly better. This might allow for 2 players to make different decisions- one fusing until they had pins they liked and levelling them very high, and another continually levelling in the hope of reaching somewhat more efficient later-game pins.

My personal bias would be to make the top-tier non-secret/special pins only 20-30% 'better' than the lower tier ones, encouraging both options as distinct playstyles as long as you balance experience gain (and pin-statgain/rank) so that keeping pins is somewhat viable.

>>48045390
I think there needs to be a little bit of a distinction made here.

A PIN only has one kind of input method, however there are a few Psychs with variations. Psychokinesis is one example (some Pins have you slash objects, others have you drag them) where the argument can be made that that's two different Stats, but that's also two different Pins too.

I'm not terribly concerned about input method myself because there are lots of different ways an input method can be interpretted. Dragging fire around the battlefield uses Flow, but Dragging Neku around using Lance Lunge is pretty clearly Bravery. For me, context trumps specific input rules. That said I'm not the sole authority here.

>>48045329
but yes, I definitely agree with this. It's probably the top priority in the pin system, since you can easily make it cool enough that you don't have to do as much work elsewhere.

Anyway, gl hf, I'm going to fuck off now and come back and tell you how wrong you are about something else in a week or so.

>>48045329
Ultimately, Magnitude is chiefly a tool designed to allow the GM and Players to play a system that as closely emulates the source game as possible, where certain Pins are just better than others. It also gives us something to do with the 300-some odd Pins in the game. We can't make them each truly unique from each other, so instead some are just upgrades to each other. However, if we remove that context then saying "Superfine Beam is objectively better than Cutie Beam" is totally arbitrary. Heck even in the source game it's arbitrary in a lot of places.

It's not a perfect system though and I'm definitely open to a better way of handling it.

>>48045503
Appreciate the insights. Fresh eyes are really helpful at this stage.

>>48045329
>I also think that we should have multiple branching options. Categorising pins by magnitude is a good idea, but maybe we could have options of upgrading. For example, you've reached rank 7 on your Gimme Dat Hippo and you want to upgrade it; you can spend the upgrade points on increased damage, range, another ability, etc., and move it up one magnitude.

This is going to be totally doable as we figure out how each Psych progresses through Ranks of Magnitude. Like increasing Range by 1 is worth 1 Magnitude, adding 1 to the maximum Success thresh-hold is another 1, etc...

This information would also be instrumental in helping GMs and Players create entirely new Pins as well.

>>48045783
definitely no-where near cannon, but reading this made me so happy. I'm so looking forward to this game it looks awesome so far.

>>48045978
Thanks for the kind words and fresh perspectives.

>>48045978
Canon only matters if you're trying to play the exact game as the original DS title but on the tabletop. And a major draw for this project is being able to tell OTHER stories than just that.

It's also why the Pin Sheet has, by default, a blank circle where the Pin goes-- so GMs and Players can draw their own.

Alright I'm off for a bit. May be able to pop in now and then this evening, otherwise see you folks tomorrow morning.

>>48046300
Have a good night.

I'll ask this again, because it's EXTREMELY relevant for balancing Noise: What power do we intend the players to have at the beginning of the game, and what at the end of the week? I can start slapping things together but I'd like to understand that before I can sit down and construct enemies.

>>48046082

I wasn't criticizing it sorry. I mean it's AWESOME and NOT CANNON. Reading that one post in particular made me so happy because this medium has a lot of new opportunities the DS version didn't and I'm so looking forward to (hehe) tweaking the hell out of my pins.

>>48047396
Shouldn't they be fighting tier 3 noise by the end of one week?

Mmmmm will characters in this game be able to use "original" psyches? Like Mr. Mew and Beat's board, I mean? Perhaps a personal Psych a player brings with them from the RG 1) can only be obtained during character creation and 2) takes up 2 or more pin slots.

If you look at their animation Mr. Mew was basically a Shockwave psych by proxy of a false body (+1 range) with knock-back or extra damage on a completed combo.

Beat's board was basically a movement speed boost paired with Vortex Saber, Lance Lunge, and/or Massive Hit.

We could custom a few basic personal psyches with open-ended descriptions. It could be, like, an inflexible but reliable "pin set" characters come with? They could be upgraded like pins or grow automatically with the character.

>>48047646
What do you mean by tier 3? I just want to know how to balance the early game and endgame, and then I can work on things in the middle.

>>48048812
I believe that we were going to render those as a character's "medium" through which they channel their pins. We can definitely have custom pins though as well as upgrade options. That's part of why we're stating existing pins first, so that we can then figure out how to balance creation.

>>48049086
I mean whatever color in the game is the third, not counting taboo nor red (special boss) noise.

I haven't dove into the noise sheet yet, so I wouldn't know.
We could just work on pins, then say how noise need to be to take an even hit or two from the best pins, then those will be endgame noise.

>>48048812
Custom pins are going to be a thing once we figure out pin balancing. Everyone's getting a focus object, like >>48049086 says, but you can always flavor how your pins work as whatever, like in any other game.

>>48049241
Different "tier 3" noises are at different difficulties though. Some show up as early as week 2 while others hang around until the last few days of week 3.

Right, yeah, that's what I meant about not knowing how to balance Noise at the moment, because I want to figure out how much power people will be able to do with 6 AP during endgame vs. during the beginning. So I'm kind of twiddling my thumbs waiting on that.

>>48049410
At most it seems like a Player will be able to score about 12 damage with 6 AP at the start.

>>48050813
How do you figure that?

>>48048812
Original psyches will probably act like the Gatito set pins, where they only work in a group.

That said, holy shit you guys are working hard on this. I only went to bed for a couple hours, then I come back to find all this being done! Props to you guys, especially the new anon with the new ideas.

Now that that's out the way, I'd like to mention something. Perhaps we could have a few categories with pins to say what they work with, to better explain how they interact with certain media. For example, things with a range of 0 could have "on hit" or "touch" and could be given to weapons that have to connect with enemies to deal damage, or something with a longer range (let's say 1) could have "point" or "range" or "look" to say how the psyche hits as a long range attack. Stuff like that. This would help, from a narrative perspective, explain why some people are unable to use certain psyches through their medium.

Also, a suggestion for modifying pins. Spending Sync can change their Resonance, as long as you can explain how. For example, a lot of charge attacks are Bravery, but someone who is a Rhythm player who wants to get places faster. They can say "Instead of charging with reckless abandon, I push forward and slug anything near me." and that would allow them to change it over. Not sure if this would be a temporary thing or permanent, but it's not coming out of magnitude because it is basically a "wasted level" unless it can be done at the same time as increasing something else with magnitude for free.

>>48051369
Shockwave costs 3 AP to use, and can deal up to 6 damage with each use. You can use it twice in one round.

>>48051907
I'm looking for an average amount though. Since there are lots of different pins being thrown around, I suppose I should simply calculate some dice for them. I'm also not sure about how we're going to balance pins that rely on stats versus pins that have their own damage.

>>48052170
That was max damage. Average will be somewhere around 4 to 5, assuming you spend your entire round attacking. Assuming people are using their best stat, which should be around 3-4 dice, and attack using Shockwave, the average is 1.2-1.6 hits per use which means 2-4 damage per use. Once again, assuming they don't move and spend the whole round attacking, that means roughly 4-8 damage, or more likely, 4-6 damage.

Pyrokinesis, once again averaging 1.2 to 1.6 hits per use and not moving, means roughly 2.4 or 3.2 hits per round if fully charged. Average damage per round is 2-3 damage if Flow is 3, or 3-4 damage if Flow is 4.

Thunderbolt and PK haven't got stats yet.

Now for the fun one. Force Rounds lets you spend additional AP to have more dice, meaning that it's more efficient for 3 Rhythm or less players to use the ability to spend more AP to get more dice. 4 Rhythm being our max for the explanation, would get no benefit or penalty for using it. 3 Rhythm (RnB) would take it, netting 7 dice for 4 AP, then 3 dice for 2 AP, meaning 10 total dice. 4 Rhythm (Hip Hop) would get 12 either way.

Now, 10*.4=4, meaning an average of 4 dice will hit for RnB, meaning 4 damage. 12*.4=4.8, meaning 4-5 hits for Hip Hop. Normally 4-5 damage. But, because 4 hits will trigger Finisher, that means the damage increases by 2, meaning the damage would actually be 6-7. RnB wouldn't get that though, because they've used their ability to gain more dice from spending more AP.

>>48052706
Thank you for that. It seems like we've got a range of 3-7 for a start. I'll start throwing together some beginning Noise so that I get a sense of where we should be for that. Ideally I'd like to see what endgame (~week 1) damage would be so I know what the endgoal is.

>>48053384
The basic frog noise should probably be around 12 HP because that puts them just into lethal range for Shockwave, but also they come in groups of 2 or 3, so it means everyone has a chance to attack them. Damage shouldn't be too high, but should be enough for the players to be concerned with. If our starting health is around 10 per player, and there are 4 players, probably between 3 to 6 damage? Should damage scale with the amount of players?

>>48053480
No it shouldn't, it's blatantly obvious it can't be around 12 hp. Jeez.

>>48053509
Could I perhaps receive an explanation please?

>>48053612
If it's 12, then the best option for all players will be to take Shockwave and/or Force Rounds at the start. This will stifle any creative builds since the best way is Shockwave/FR.

Make it like 8-10.

>>48053869
It's the absolute maximum damage that's going to kill it with shockwave, and even then, it's still better to go with those for single combat anyway. Fire is spreading damage and the other two haven't been made yet. If it was against sprogs (or whatever the tadpoles are called) then it's best to go with pyrokinesis because it has the widest area of effect. Also, it'll change based on who has what stat highest. If you have Insight as your main stat, you probably want to use Thunderbolt, and if you have high Flow, you're going to want Pyro or PK. Bravery will use a charge attack. Shockwave also needs you to move if they aren't in your space, meaning you can't use it two times in a round if you move.

Yes, absolute max damage will kill them in one round from the strongest pin of the starting gear IF you have enough dice to roll AND you're lucky enough to roll well AND you are already in their space.

Morning bump

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How's this, guys?

>>48055882
What would Stun do? That's not an effect from the original game.

Also as we have it Thunderbolt is a Flow Psych, since it works by channeling energy from one target to another.

>>48051882
Here's how I'm looking at creating Psychs right now.

You start with a Root, which is the basic way that the Psych interacts with enemy Noise. Each Root Corresponds to a damage template, and are frequently (but not exclusively) attached to the same Stat. For example Shockwave and Force Rounds would have the same Root, because they both deal damage per Success. I'd call that Root "Barrage" or something similar. To that you modify the damage output in ways that are specific to each Root, as well as Range, AP, Uses, etc..., all of which change the Pin's Magnitude.

Finally you choose a Combo and a Finisher and you've got your new Pin.

That's the basic outline of course; I won't know the specifics until we are able to stat out more Pins.

>>48056550
Stun would be immobilize, but I used stun because it fits the electricity theme more. It could be immobilize instead.

Just like how HP Drain effects can essentially be either lasting poison or fire damage. Same thing, different name.

>Also as we have it Thunderbolt is a Flow Psych, since it works by channeling energy from one target to another.
My apologies, I thought we had no starter Insight pins and adjusted it.

>>48056601
>You start with a Root... ...all of which change the Pin's Magnitude.
Yes, and the roots could tell you how the user channels them through their weapon, or even whether they could.

>>48056801
>Also as we have it Thunderbolt is a Flow Psych, since it works by channeling energy from one target to another.
No worries; none of the Start Set are Insight Pins but that's okay because there are plenty of other Mag-0 Pins which are Insight. See >>48044892

It's actually nicely even. We just need to expand the Starter Set to include the Pins I posted here: >>48043441

>>48056883
Ah, cool. I'll have a go at a few of them before sleeping then.

>>48057009
So far we're already seeing a few Root Psychs at play:

Barrage: a series of rapid attacks. Prefers Rhythm.
>Shockwave, Force Rounds, Energy Rounds, Stellar Flurry
>X Damage per Success vs 1 Noise

Stream: A current of energy through the field. Prefers Flow.
>Thunderbolt, Pyrokinesis
>X Damage per Success, spread across multiple Noise

Objective: Hit a Noise with some physical object. Prefers Flow, maybe Insight if we structure Apport around that Root
>Psychokinesis
>Object Damage + Successes vs 1 Noise

Couple thoughts:

>>48055882
What if instead we had the effect of Thunderbolt be "Can damage up to 3 enemies within your Range". That differentiates it from Pyrokinesis which spreads its damage out, meaning the more enemies you damage the less total damage they take. With Pyrokinesis, you have a pool of damage that you concentrate on one enemy or scatter across multiple. With Thunderbolt, you're conducting electricity across multiple enemies, so they each take the same amount of damage.

Damage wise, Thunderbolt can deal 3 damage for 3 AP, but it can affect up to 3 enemies so that's as much as 9 damage across all Noise. Under this system I'd suggest upping Pyrokinesis's max successes to 5, allowing it to do quite a bit of damage to one Noise at a time, or a little to everyone.

On this topic, since we seem to be agreed on damage caps, should I add a small field to the Pin Card that specifically lists its maximum damage output?

Just as a general comment, but the easier enemies will be able to be killed by a single player in a single round, i.e. the first frog Noise. I'll take a look at that in a few hours and post some ideas.

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Updated Pin Sheet. what do we think of Thunderbolt, based on my post above?

>>48058724
Quick question about the use of the word "light objects". The current way in which we talk about objects is in terms of size (large, medium, small, miniscule, etc.) though in the document they're called props, which obviously needs to be renamed to avoid confusion. I could also alter that to heavy/medium/light or what have you, but I'd need to know what you intend to do for those.

>>48059636
No, Small works fine. I'll change the wording.

>>48059707
In general, I think that you're doing an excellent job capturing the spirit of the pins. With regards to new magnitude, I'm slightly concerned about increasing damage, since something as simple as "2 damage per success" going to "3 damage per success" is an IMMENSE difference. On the other hand, if we had something like stat + successes for damage, then increasing the base damage by 1 or 2 would make sense and be manageable.

>>48059707
I actually think that light makes more sense than small, so how about: massive/heavy/medium/light/featherweight

>>48060491
What objects are Massive or Featherweight?

Certainly nothing in the game.

>>48060521
I think the idea is Massive = too big to move, Featherweight= too small to do damage or matter

>>48060521
R+F has it right. Massive is for things that can't be moved outside of extremely special circumstances and wouldn't show up very often on the battlefield, while featherweight is things that can be moved but that can't cause damage. For example, a pin. Say that a raven steals Rock's pin, and Jazz is able to get it back. Jazz could use a psych to give it back to Rock without having to waste AP to traverse the battlefield.

Actual objects that deal damage/etc. will be in the heavy/medium/light range. Generally speaking, light objects can't hinder movement; medium objects can only hinder movement if there's >3 (or whatever arbitrarily picked number) in a single measure; and large objects hinder movement at +1 AP for each large object. If you want to move into a measure with a car in it, you'd have to spend 2 AP instead of 1. This can offer up strategies for more ranged players, for example by piling obstacles between them and the Noise so that they can use ranged pins while the Noise spends a few turns getting to them, and so on.

>>48060491
Small makes more sense because objects also hinder movement, and it makes more sense that a Big object will slow you down rather than a Heavy one.

Along those same lines, what should the damage output on objects be? the Mag-0 Psychokinesis Pin deals Object Damage + Successes, so we need to dial how much damage an object does in that respect.

I'm also a real big fan of the damage caps we've been using. Next week I'm going to revise the Pin sheets with a dedicated space for them.

I'm going to be off now maybe for the rest of the day, though I'll try to check in a few times. Been real busy today.

I also like that idea that Apport is an object Psyche. Higher magnitude pins let you spawn heavier objects, or more of them.

>>48061856
I'm in agreement with this. Are we going to call them objects? I think that the reason we initially called them "props" was because we were using it in the sense of props in a play. Since we have a different props now, we should rename them.

>>48062881
Litter or trash could work.

>>48064003
Would you really call a car or fire hydrant "litter"?

>>48064187
If it's in your way, I can see the point. And it does fit the urban theme, at least to Westerners.

What about "Clutter".

>>48064310
I suppose so. It just seems odd. I feel like there should be a better word. Were they called anything in particular in the DS game?

>>48065952
Fair enough. Props is a good word for it but of course under our current systems Props is already something else. We can change that though to something else that has the same connotation to praise and kudos as "Props" which fits the theme.

>>48066098
No, I like the idea of "props" as a way to gain sync/soul. I'm just trying to think if there's a better word to enclose both objects and obstacles, perhaps something stylish and/or music-related.

bampu

b u m p

it goes BUMP in the night

>>48042578
I want to be on record seeing the logic of reallocating healing pins but really, really not liking it.

The vibe of the pins are all wrong for anything but Bravery. But if you're gonna do it I HIGHLY recommend focusing healing pins with lots of uses, short usage times, that restore small amounts into Bravery/Flow and focusing the ones with few uses that restore a lot on Bravery/Insight.

(I also thin Psyches per stat are far more important than pins per stat)

>>48070924
I'm in agreement with psyches per stat > pins per stat. We can always make more pins.

>>48065952
There were Sho's towers which were literally called junk piles. People generally refer to things that they don't need as "junk" too. The game has the term "obstacles" when talking about things in the battlefield too, with their threads that effect them.

>>48065730
Not too bad.

>>48073293
That's a good point. Junk works nicely for our purposes I think.

>>48070924
For the record, the Psych distribution is also unequal, where we have more Insight and Bravery Psychs than Rhythm and Flow. It's not terribly off but it's probably close to the difference between Pins of those kinds as well.

This is primarily because there are a lot of Bravery and Insight Psychs that only have 2-4 Pins between them, whereas Psychokinesis, Pyrokinesis and Energy Rounds each have more than 10 Pins. So the Flow and Rhythm Pins are concentrated around a few Psychs, while Insight and Bravery are more spread out.

Name: Velocity Attack
Psych: Velocity Attack
Brand: Tigre Punks
Resonance: Bravery
AP: 1
Uses: 4
Boot/Reboot: Instant/2 Rounds
Range: Special/0
Target: 1 to Max Successes
Damage: 1 per Success (Max 4)
Effect: Move up to 2 (spaces/octaves/the word we use) and can deal Damage to separate foes for each Success you roll along the way.
Combo: No Successes rolled with this use.
Finisher: Move up to 1 additional space.

Thoughts etc please. I like the idea that someone can use this to fling themselves across the game board if they choose to not deal damage with it, but then I'm not sure if that's a bravery-related ability or not. Arguably, other pins like this could be Flow.

>>48074785
High damage = generally Bravery, high max success = generally flow?

>>48075166
I could see that working.

“Fashion is personal and subjective. To me, an outfit is a way to express your aesthetic to the surrounding world, but more importantly, to yourself. Ignore the noise- enjoy wearing what makes you happy!”
Krit McClean gave us this quote

>>48075166
High damage isn't Rhythm?

>>48075576
For that set of pins in particular, not in general.

>>48075368
Thank... you?

>>48075576
I could see their being the odd Velocity Attack pin with moderate or high damage, low range and uses, and fast reboot that uses Rhythm but it'd be the not-terribly-uncommon exception rather than the literal rule.


>>on another note
Does anyone else think that Insight pins having (in addition to powerful and often situational effects) long reboots so that one needs to plan when they're going to them is a good idea?

Like:

>Fast reboot, reliable+fast: Rhythm and (to a lesser extent) Flow
>Slow reboot, powerful+high-stakes: Insight and (to a lesser extent) Bravery

>Heavily strategically based on the situation of noise and the battlefield: Insight+Flow
>Strategically based on the situation of the team and the user: Bravery and (to a lesser extent) Rhythm

>Important to consider the psycical position of noise and other players: Flow, Bravery
>Important to consider the physical position of the self: Insight+Rhythem

Systemic playstyles, anyone?

>>48076225
I hadn't realized you were only talking about Velocity Attack.
I am also a proponent of making alt stat pins that aren't just original stat+another stat.

I'd say 'big windup, big payoff' is more of a Rhythm thing, as the big damage stat.

Isn't the point of Flow is that it can adapt to whatever the battlefield situation is?

>>48076270
>I hadn't realized you were only talking about Velocity Attack.
I changed subjects with a double space and the heading ">>on another note"
I though I could just compress everything together instead of double posting but I guess I should have been more clear about it.

>>48076270
>I'd say 'big windup, big payoff' is more of a Rhythm thing
Maybe. Rhythm is the stat I have the worst grasp on. Rhythm has Force Rounds and Shockwave with a few DOA's like Vortex Sabre, Burst Rounds, and Flame Core, while Nexus Ray and Massive Hit remain in the Bravery domain. I'd say Rhythm, as the name implies, is about CONSTANT and RELENTLESS damage, like a Rogue that spams dual wield daggers and DOT as their core strategy, while Bravery is the two-handed great-sword build that's all about endurance and striking the occasional MASSIVE hit.

>>48076270
>Isn't the point of Flow is that it can adapt to whatever the battlefield situation is?
Oh yeah I forgot about this point you made.
I don't want anyone to think the categories I quickly cooked up weren't just examples for me to suggest coordinating pin stats and stat plsystyles via, but Flow being exactly that is why I put in in the "consider the physical position of noise and other players" and "based on the situation of noise and the battlefield" categories.

Also, sidenote
>>48076225
>psycical
was a typo of "physical"

>>48076225
I agree to a degree. Insight is supposed to be the "smart" stat, so it should be based on "what is best here" like a mage in final fantasy, choosing elements and other situational advantages over raw power. I think they should have SOME high-stakes attacks, like Big Bang and Big Crunch, or the other one that actually reboots. However, it should also be one of the most widely spread stats, having both crowd control and single target attacks, as they're aiming to cleverly take down different types of enemies in the shortest time. The main point of Insight is staying away from enemies, making them somewhat weak at 0 range because they're a ranged choice. They should deal less damage if they're using ranged options because balance dictates that not moving = more attacks. If anything, they'd have more fast rebooting pins to keep attacking.

As for the others;

Rhythm, I would imagine, would aim for standard reboot times, some fast and some slow. Rhythm is attacking as much as possible, so yes, they would want pins that boot quickly, but they also want to be powerful, so they probably have the 1-2 use pins that reboot fast but also hit like a truck. Otherwise, they're your standard set-and-forget attackers.

Flow is, as I've said in previous comments, all about motion, trickery and speed. Their main use in combat is running interference and harassment and holding the enemy's attention to let others in and hammer them. Ideally, they'd have the pins that either immobilize or otherwise stop the enemy's attacks. Maybe they use Aqua Barrier after moving over to the enemy so they attack them (but Aqua Barrier is invincible) while the others can recharge their pins or something, who knows. They probably use pins with lots of uses but long recharge times and not a huge amount of damage. Ranged attacks are probably secondary, or their ranged attacks cause status effects, or something.

Bravery.

>RULESOFNATURE.jpg

That is all.

bump before I sleep.

>>48076573
The idea behind rhythm in combat is that it is uncomplicated and immediate. Bravery is powered by belief, drive and faith in yourself and your friends coupled with a general readiness to charge headlong into the enemy, hence Velocity Attack. A lot of charge up Psychs like massive hit and nexus ray use Bravery because they're about gathering up power, spirit bomb style. Rhythm is much more direct and practical. It has all the bullet style attacks except for Patrol Rounds, whose abnormal flight patterns make them Flow. They also have most of the direct physical attacks like Shockwave and Vulcan Uppercut. It doesn't have Massive Hit, again because that's about gathering power instead of releasing it, nor does it have Grave Marker, which again falls under the catetory of throwing yourself into your enemy heedless of danger that Bravery governs.

That said I'm far from the sole authority here, so if there's a reason to reinterpret a Psych I'm all for it.

>>48076573
No, I know you changed subjects after >>, I was just also addressing those.

>>48076663
Bang/Crunch *is* the one that reboots.

bump bump bump it up

Here's a pretty easy way to figure out the style of each Stat:

Rhythm = Hip hop
Flow = Jazz
Insight = Classical
Bravery = Rock

Within each of those ideas there's a wide array of styles. Rock can be slow, aggressive, heavy, or light. Jazz incorporates both smooth, relaxation and intense, complex hard bebop. Hip hop can be incisive, poppy, mellow or angry. And of course what we call classical covers like 300 years of musical history. But each one brings certain ideas and themes to mind when you think of it. There's a great deal of variety within each genre, but there's a lot of unity as well.

BU MP

Alright guys, if we can get a basic system down, I might be able to get my play group to playtest either next session (4 days) or once we have another break in the story (could be whenever).

>>48077828
>Bang/Crunch *is* the one that reboots.
My mistake.

>>48084077
I think that's doable if Archivist can get basic Noise up and running while I flesh out the collection of Mag-0 Pins.

>>48084107
Even just a scenario which is the first 2-3 days. We don't need fusion either, we can add that later.

Also, has our main google doc been updated for all the stuff we've done so far? I haven't been checking it.

>>48084345
I haven't been updating the google doc due to real-life busyness. I can work out the first few days worth of Noise tomorrow morning perhaps, but if someone could update the main doc, that'd be wonderful. I would do so but some of the latest changes have run away from me so I'm not actually sure how to word them or what the most agreed upon version is.

late night bump

b u m p

>>48084762
I'll see what I can do Tuesday. Today and Monday my work here will be limited but I can probably clean some things up.

bamf

One last bump before I sleep.

day time bump!

jeez, do you live in Australia Jazz or do you just have an unconventional sleep scheduled

Guilty lurker bump.

>>48091417
Jazzman is infact Australian.

I live on the US East Coast but mostly post during the day Monday through Friday. This Monday should be scarce due to 4th of July stuff.

>>48088494
Thank you. I'll fix up the sections that I've set aside for myself, but it'll also be a good catch-up.

I rewrote the Roll Mechanics section to be a bit more descriptive and include notes about Difficult Actions and Contested Actions, along with an example of how the dice work. I also added a preface to the Core Stats:

>The Core Stats in TWEWY aren’t those typically found in other roleplaying games. The Reapers’ Game occurs in a dimension parallel to our own where thought and belief play a greater roll than physical ability. As a result, the traits which define characters are not based on their actual strength, speed and coordination but on the characteristics of their minds and psychological states.

The section on the Light Puck about what happens if the Puck is dropped is very vague and doesn't quite fit the way we've been interpreting that mechanic, so I rewrote it as follows:

>If a Player holding the puck fails to complete a Combo, the puck will be dropped and its bonus will be lost for the next Round. The puck can be recovered at the end of that following Round if at least one player is able to complete a Combo, at which point they can choose who the Puck is passed to. A Thread with the ability “Hold that Puck” extends the number of Rounds that the puck can be held by one Player without dropping it.

Does that look okay? Since we don't have any accumulating bonuses attached to the puck, nothing is lost when it's dropped, so instead dropping the puck results in at least one Round where the puck is dead, which ends when a Player successfully executes a Combo.

>>48093237
I honestly think that we should have some sort of accumulating bonus as a reward to keeping up the puck over multiple rounds.

First two Noise done. They might be on the weak side, but that's because the intention is to control groups of them at a time. I'm also not sure what would be a proper dB for a particular group of players. At the moment I'm hesitating to say it should be the Day, times the number of players, times 20. On Day 1, if you have 3 players, the target dB will be 60. On Day 2, if you have 2 players, the target dB will be 80. And so on.

10 dB (1 AP/Round)
Dixiefrog
"Powerful legs propel this hop-happy frog Noise around, and lend a biting edge to its kick!"

Fidelity[1]: 2
Treble[1]: 1
Bass[1]: 1
Tempo[2]: 1

Has access to standard movement (1 Measure/AP), light attack (action; 1 AP; rolls Treble; requires one success and does Treble damage; range of 0), and light ranged attack (action; 1 AP; rolls Treble; requires one success and does Treble/2 rounded up; range of 0-1). Regenerates 1 AP per turn.

The Dixiefrog hops one Measure per AP. It may attack Players within its own Measure by leaping onto them, and may attack Players within its own or adjacent Measures by jumping onto them, then jumping off to land in the same position as before.

Behaviour table:
1-6: Close jump. The Dixiefrog leaps onto a Player within the same Measure to perform a Light Attack. If there are no Players in the Measure, the Dixiefrog moves one Measure towards the nearest Player.
7-10: Far leap. The Dixiefrog leaps onto a Player in an immediately adjacent Measure to perform a Light Ranged Attack, then leaps off of the Player to return to its original Measure. If there are no Players in an adjacent Measure, the Dixiefrog moves one Measure towards the nearest Player.

Note: If you have more than one Noise of the same kind, such as 2 or 3 Dixiefrogs, you can have all of them move together at once. Just add together their stats accordingly, and treat them as having a communal HP pool. For example, two Dixiefrogs together would still roll 1 Treble die to attack, but one would multiply the damage by two to account for both Noise. Three Dixiefrogs would have a communal Fidelity of 6; they would roll 1 die for a light attack, but do 3 Treble instead of 1 in damage.

>>48093715
20 dB (2 AP/Round)
Garage Wolf
"These speedy wolves favor headlong tackles. Only the quick will get these curs to heel!"

Fidelity[1]: 2
Treble[2]: 2
Bass[1]: 1
Tempo[2]: 1

Has access to standard movement (1 Measure/AP), light attack (action; 1 AP; rolls Treble; requires one success and does Treble damage; range of 0), medium attack (action; 2 AP; rolls Treble; requires one success and does 2 damage/success; range of 0), and guard (reaction; 1 AP; rolls Bass; for each success reduce damage taken by 1).

The Garage Wolf runs one Measure per AP. It may attack Players within its own Measure by biting them, and it may attack Players in an adjacent Measure by tackling them headlong. It may also choose to take shelter, and guard for an upcoming attack.

Behaviour table:
1-4: Roam. The Garage Wolf runs into an immediately adjacent Measure (Standard Movement) and tackles one of the Players to perform a Light Attack. If there are no Players in the Measure, the Garage Wolf runs an additional Measure towards the nearest Player.
5-8: Dominate. The Garage Wolf furiously bites a Player in the same Measure to perform a Medium Attack. If there are no Players in its Measure, the Garage Wolf moves up to two Measures towards the nearest Player.
9-10: Shelter. The Garage Wolf takes a defensive position. During the next Player Round, the Garage Wolf can Guard up to two times against attacks.

Who's your favorite merchant?
mine's princess k

>>48095241
Bump for exceptional taste.