Welcome to yet another GURPS thread!
"Don't lie to me" Edition.
Previous thread: >>http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/47931206
Anyone uses http://www.gurpscalculator.com/ ?
What are tracking and campaign manager like? Both hidden behind login screens, I don't like making accounts everywhere for nothing.
>>47974812
I don't think campaign manager does anything.
Tracker is for setting up an easy click dice thingy, if for example, you want to be able to easily roll 3d crushing ex with shrapnel damage over and over at the click of a button.
>>47973965
I was going to say that Search can be used to examine an area for clues, but that doesn't seem to be the case. It really is just for finding things people tucked away with slight of hand / concealed weapons.
Search really is just an awful skill.
>>47976065
The split is like this:
>Perception to look over a person or area to notice hidden things
>Observation to do it without being obvious
>Search to oppose Holdout
Most PCs will only want Perception. If they need to be surreptitious and case a bank or watch for Russian mafia bodyguards in the club, they need Observation. Search is mostly for the bouncers.
>>47977081
Observation's nice for everyone because it lets you do one roll to check out an area for entry points, exits, guards, cover, things that might explode and valuables. All without risk of being noticed if you don't fuck it up.
Every PER based skill runs into the same problem though, once you get them to 4 points in them the next level of SL from skill requires 4 points and another point of PER cost 5 points.
>>47977232
>>47977081
Observation also lets you spot people sneaking up or waiting under camo to ambush you. It's a great skill for everyone to put a few points into.
>>47977081
Search is actually one of the more standard murderhobo skills, as it is what you roll when looting bodies (p. 13 of DF2).
>>47977308
Camouflage or Stealth rolls are opposed by Perception but yeah you can substitute Observation. Then you get the advantage of knowing that someone's sneaking up on you without alerting them that you know.
>>47977414
Good point!
>>47977232
>>47977308
Doesn't observation also allow you to spot patterns, like guard patrols and stuff?
>>47977414
Couldn't you always just bypass Search by being needlessly careful with it? It would only be helpful if you had to loot a body and immediately run of the second later because someone is there to mess with you, wouldn't it?
>>47977622
I think that would be covered by modifiers for time taken and the pressence of a "no stress" +4 penalty; the situation you described is the norm for most adventurers (no one wants to stay in a haunted crypt while the fighter double checks every or corpse for a few extra copper).
>>47977533
Yep. The only limit in the book is that you might need Intelligence Analyst to make sense of the information you spotted and for especially complicated stuff.
>>47977414
That's a good point, but keep in mind that Search is unneeded to find anything once they've got -3 or worse on Holdout.
So if you strip them down to their underwear they get -5 and can no longer hide anything bigger then a pea-sized jewel.
>>47977622
>>47977717
It's acutely easier then that. Any time Holdout hits -3 or worse any close Search automatically finds items (holdout can only hide things penalized that much from someone looking you over, not putting hands on you.)
Holdout gets penalties for size of item and your clothes. Strip someone naked and they take -7, meaning literally any item bigger then a postage stamp is automatically found. If they are still hiding something a body search gives you +3 Search vs their -7 Holdout.
>>47973965
Hey, Book of 9 Swords Guy: Have you looked at Path of War/Path of War Expanded? I imagine it would combine with your Bo9S supplement quite well.
Just a thought.
>>47973965
Does 4e will have a gurps vehicles book?
Creating a vehicle on 3e is EXACTLY what is like to try do create a fatal character (yes I already tried to do one fatal char).
>>47978915
>Does 4e will have a gurps vehicles book?
Spaceships (Modular ships), and a bunch of piecemeal half-assed alternatives to GURPS Vehicles.
Supposedly you can use 3e Vehicles easily enough, you just have to convert the weapons to 4e.
>>47976065
>3 different rolls for searching.
This is dumb.
GURPS doesn't have a finite skill list, does it?
Has anyone made a consolidated but still comprehensive skill list for GURPS?
>>47979176
1) One's an attribute, not a skill.
2) Observation is, as discussed, covers like 90% of "lookin' for shit" scenarios and Search is a niche skill with a deceptively broad name.
I'm kind of new to GURPS. I am the Forever GM of two groups. With one of those Groups I am going to start a new Campaign of epic proportions soon. No other system had the depth necessary to create the kind of characters we wanted and was still fun and well thought out, so we tryed out a lot of Systems and settled on GURPS after a one shot with GURPS lite to see if the base system was good. I am very pleased how the preparations are going so far, especially because we could build the kind of charaters we wanted. The other systems we would use normally would either require too much make believe (which is quite a thing to say for a group where everyone is in character the whole session and where a LOT of improv is going on), or not leave a lot of room for gradual and fine grained enaugh progress.
The problem I am facing now in doing more prep is that I have no idea where to start with vehicle creation. We are going to play with 4e and most of the campaign will be centred around a group on a sailing ship in a world that is in the Age of Sail and consists entirely of islands. Therefore there are going to be a LOT of ships and quite a bit of ship combat, which gets even more complex given that there are magic-like powers in this world capable of attacking ships and defending from cannon and gunfire. But from what I have heard, vehicle creation in GURPS is really fucky,
so:
- What do I need build Ships in 4e (which Supplements etc.)
- Where can i find out how the hell ship combat works?
- Common pitfalls in shipbuilding and ship combat?
>>47973965
Putting thread title in the name field
Goddamit, OP, do you make this on purpose?
>>47980638
It's not like its hard to find threads on this board from the catalog
>>47980590
Use Spaceships. I'm serious; between all the supplements and articles for the spaceship building system, the series has wood and wood/iron hulls, sails, TL4 weaponry, and all the miscelaneous bits to make seafaring ships a thing through the Spaceships section. That being said, you'll find a LOT of ships already made for you in Low Tech + its companion books; at the very least, look to those for guidance when building your own ships.
For combat, if you're using Spaceships, use, well, Spaceship's. There's a grid-based "tactical" version ruleset and the wholly "theatre of the mind" ruleset, plus some minor tweaks/variants for both. The chapter on vehicles in Campaigns also has a more barebones vehicular combat system, though in my opinion it's too light. Lastly, you *can* run the combat as any other combat by drawing the ship's deck on the grid and let the PCs dictate second-by-second action, but that's too extreme for me.
Most of the (space)ship building pitfalls I'm aware of have to do with lone missiles BTFOing any ship that lacks a good point-defense system, but obivously that's not an issue in an age of sail game.
>>47980690
It's like I have to change filters every time OP changes the format of the thread for no reason.
>>47980836
I literally just have "GURPS" in the filter and it has always been up top.
>>47980855
Then I got every thread that mention GURPS being on top. You see, anon, you shouldn't touch my autism.
>>47980896
Well yeah, how else can your defend your systemfu when people post>inb4 GURPS?
>>47980832
Ok, thanks a lot. I really appreciate it, especially seeing as this advice is entirely non-obvious. It didn't even cross my mind to use spaceships for this, but it makes sense seeing how much spaceship stuff was released.
>>47980832
You sure?
I read some posts from the lowetech authors, and they said they didn't refer to spaceships at all, instead referring to historical information and writing game stats to match it based on historical data and rough physics calculations.
>>47982001
Well yeah, no duh the devs did actual real-world research to derive statblocks, but for players that want to build their own ships like Anon requested and *not* have to do similar research, spaceships is the way to go.
Again though, Low Tech (and LT Companion 2 & 3) have oodles of ships; reaslitically, few people can requisition a custom-made ship from a profession shipwright and will end up buying a "standard model" of ship (for as "standard" as you can get before the age of industrialization).
>>47982001
Hmm, thats true as well. Their first ship will most probably not be a custom one. I left them the option, but right in session 0 they were all:"Fuck earning money. Let's just steal a battleship!" If they still want to go through with that I could just give them a ready made battleship for the time being (If they manage to pull it off without being killed). Thanks for all the advice so far /gurpsgen/
>>47982227
There were more and less standard ships. By the mid 17th century larger ships were very complicated and things like displacement and stability calculations weren't around, so it was more an art then a science. People would base new ships on previous ships that had proven effective.
The height of this was likely the 74 gun ship of the line. Pretty much the archetypal heavy warship of the age of sail, the basic French pattern was copied endlessly by the British, Dutch, Spanish Protagease and even Germans.
>>47982842
>Boats on boats
>Boatception.
Large ships were acutely the first items to be created from common plans.
I will do a short time skip of two weeks between last week's session and the next session and my players want their PCs to learn a new skill. All of the skills they wanted to learn are only one point skills. Even so, the 200 hours of learning seem a bit crushing, specially their character have 12+ IQ. Is there a optional rule for something like an IQ based roll to improve learning time?
>>47982994
Just don't use the 200 hour 'rule' and let them spend the points.
>>47983012
They don't have points. That's why they asked to used the two week time span to train something. Otherwise, ti would be wasted time that could have gone to improve something else.
>>47982994
There's some optional rules:
1) Ignore learning times and just allow them to expend character points to improve, assuming they'd picked up the skills on the job.
This is simple, and absolutely minimized bookkeeping. All you have to do is check their sheets to make sure they have the right point totals.
2) Allow them to spend money or a favor or something to get a good trainer that reduces the training time required.
3) Hose-rule that they can intensively train 100 hours a week for a short time, but end up with some fatigue damage and can't keep it up for long.
>>47983079
If you don't have any ADD/Distractable/Lazy flaw shouldn't you be able to put in a 100 hour week as long as you can get food delivered and can sleep where you work? That's 9 hours a day off.
>>47983079
Refer to >>47983032
I'm letting them use points, bu currently, they don't have any, and they wanted to spend this time in learning something, instead of letting a two-week time lapse wasted
>>47983460
Two weeks is just enough to get 1 point. That can be important for a vital skill you don't want to default on. Beyond that, it's just not enough time.
>>47978740
Yes, I actually did look at them. They look much more over the top than ToB ones. Still, their conversion is planned, but doesn't have a high priority.
In the meantime, have shadow magic as Sorcery.
>>47980590
Take the printed stats for ships (Basic and Low-Tech mostly, maybe a few others here and there). Tweak them slightly if needed (this is the sailing ship Justice, the fastest ship EVAR!). Call it done and get back to playing.
>>47973965
I wonder what the people named on this cover actually think of it.
>Does it say we're the bad guys?
>What's even this, bamboo, asparagus? Why?
To whomever said the Detect Lies skill is affected by how well you can spot your target...no, it isn't.
Here are the modifiers listed under the Skill entry in GURPS Characters ->
"Modifiers: +1 for Sensitive or +3 for
Empathy (p. 51), or -3 for Low
Empathy (p. 142); +4 if your subject is
Easy to Read (p. 134). If the subject is
of a different species, the GM may
assess a penalty – see Physiology
Modifiers (p. 181)."
There's nothing about lighting conditions. You might have been thinking of the Body Language Skill (which IS affected by poor lighting/masks/voluminous clothing/etc).
How could I build a character like Rayman? Disembodied hands and feet that are still attached to his body through an invisible bond, specifically, the rest of his abilities aren't really what I'm looking for, but just the hands/feet part
>>47985325
Well, that's a clear advantage for Detect Lies then. It works just as well on the phone as it dose in person.
Body Language is still better for most characters, but there's more reason to bother with Detect Lies.
>>47986833
He basically still *has* arms right? The intangible tether has a fixed length?
Or can his hands and feet be like a football fields length away from his body?
I'm inclined to say you could largely leave it as is and build a regular character, and arms and legs just couldn't be called shotted (a minor advantage).
How do I do 'boss monsters', /gurspgen/? I specifically want to run a campaign around hunting colossi, but I don't want it to be a fight against a giant sack of HP.
What sort of interesting, tactical decisions can I try to incorporate to make the fight less "Is it still up? I attack."?
>>47987135
It only has few weak spots where their attacks will cause serious injury. Make sure to mention that most giants will be like this. Shadow of Collosus did it right. Treat them more like a set of challenges to reach the weakspot than a fight, perhaps?
>>47987124
The arms are completely intangible and they do have a fixed length unless you count when he fires his fist but I don't really care for that bit yet. It would also be immune to large area attacks and other things that could damage all body parts, though. Perhaps a portion of his body is insubstantial, but I'm not sure how you'd stat that.
>>47987010
A professional human (or *insert species-of-choice here*) lie-detector would do well to invest in both Skills.
>>47987333
Is there anything (aside from the ones mentioned in the Skills) that can stop you from applying both Skills to see if someone is lying? Couldn't you just roll both against their one roll?
Hey, I've a question - I know some of the GURPS books are crazy good reference material, but could you guys point me to the ones that are best and/or most interesting and entertaining? I know the hacking one is ridiculously researched, and that tactical ops is great too, but which ones as well? Disregarding mechanics entirely, I just want some cool and informative reading material, preferrably real world related.
>>47987853
forgot to mention that I'm also lookign for general inspiration from them, so the ones that present the setting material well are good to go, too
>>47987870
Fantasy and Space give good overviews of fantasy, and sci-fi settings respectively.
Of particular interest is that Fantasy talks about different "eras" of fantasy - the distinction between Bronze Age heroic fantasy with city-states, vast unknown continents and active, interfering gods; and the more D&D-esque sword & sorcery fantasy with gems and gold flowing like water and magic ruins hidden beneath every town. It talks about setting assumptions and rules and checks needed to maintain the feel you want. If you want a setting more believable than D&D, it talks about the effects of magic on society, especially warfare (traditional castles are no good against gryphon cavalry or fireballs raining from above), but also the small-scale, such as how it affects farmers' crop yields.
Space talks about the merits of interplanetary and interstellar sci-fi, the effects of faster-than-light travel and communications (and what happens if one exists but the other doesn't, or if one is much faster than the other) as well as how to handle your unobtainium, especially if it's sine qua non of one of your core technologies (e.g. requiring exotic matter mined from neutron stars for warp drives). It tries to make an attempt at talking about how polities and nation-states might take shape or change over interstellar distances, but a whole lot of that is conjecture.
>preferrably real world related
Oops, didn't read that. Try Technomancer, which is 3e, for a cool take on what would happen if the atomic bomb unleashed magic into the world. Monster Hunters is a kind of monster-of-the-week modern supernatural thing, with an air kind of like Buffy the Vampire Slayer or Supernatural, though it tends more towards mechanics than setting I think. It does have stuff to say on alien infiltration/abduction settings for XCOM-style stuff in the Applied Xenology book. A lot of the Pyramids have small setting examples in them, so check some of the issues who have themes for what you want.
>>47973965
Is there a Logistics skill somewhere? i can't find it anywhere and google doesn't help me.
>>47988043
What would the Logistics skill cover? I'd say it is likely a mix of skills, probably including Acounting and Administration among others.
>>47988302
"what goes where, and when", making sure the right things are on the right place, is that under administration?
>>47988011
hm. So, if I may, basically if i want to get inspiration in a particular field, all I should do is to just get whatever sounds like it? Like the investigation book for investigations, etc? Are all of those well written?
>>47988424
It may be that way. Its entry is relatively short and not particularly descriptive after all. Administration is about running a large organisation and doesn't day much else. It likely included Logistics as a part.
I finally received my second-hand set of GURPS 4e books today.
Managed to get my hands on Basic Set: Characters x2 (one undamaged, one with loose pages), Basic Set: Campaigns, Banestorm, Fantasy, Magic, and the GM screen plus GURPS Lite. It cost me 50 yuropbux, or about 55 dollars.
Was that a fair price, in hindsight?
>>47988699
I bought my Basic Set new and it cost me about 50 euro. I think you got plenty for what you paid.
>>47988424
It would probably be Professional Skill (Logistics). Accounting, Administration, etc. are (in rules terms) specialisations of the same skill for different professions - Professional Skill is there as a placeholder for anything they didn't specifically cover.
You might also like to have a look in the Spaceships book about Traders and whatnot, whatever it's called - it's got rules for speculative trade in there, so it's probably got something that covers what you want.
>>47988717
I'm being a bit nitpicky, but I think Expert Skill (Logistics) would be better. Professional Skill is IQ/A and meant to simulate some day-job skill not covered by other skills, such as being a barber, bartender, florist, or game designer. Expert Skill, on the other hand, is IQ/H and meant to be "cross-disciplinary knowledge," which I think fits logistics better seeing that, as you said, it covers aspects of Administration (are things running smoothly?), Accounting (are things running efficiently/without much loss?), and even Strategy in some cases (can we logistically support these troops over here?), among others without necessarily requiring *all* aspects of the listed skills.
>>47987853
I've read and reread my copy of Swashbucklers so many times that the binding is falling apart. It's definitely one of my favorite books.
>>47988699
Thats a great deal
I'm in Canada, and our conversion rate to U$D fucked us for years. Each of my copies of those books cost me about 40$ a pop. Fuck your luck.
SO, the healer is getting his work made for him; the party got fried by a witch with black lightning last session. She managed to fry one dwarf nearly dead, and toasted the other's arm nearly clean off! A few failed HT rolls later (and I mean, super failed. 16's all over on the dice) and now he has a crippled left arm! Thank god for the healer advantage; First dwarf is on his feet within a few minutes, but a few failed rolls by the healer means the second one with a bacon arm is out of luck for the moment.
Thank god retries are only penalized in a one-day period :P
Any of your parties receive hilarious terrible injuries? (do not google 'electrical burns' by the by)
I haven't ever played GURPS before and I'm looking for a new system to try out, could somebody outline some of the pros and cons of GURPS?
>>47991117
>You can make whatever you want for any goddamn campaign setting ever
-You have to know what you want, and aim for it. Very GM heavy on the game work there
>Which is not to say theres too much work, as theres tons of supplements for every setting
-Some of which kinda suck in areas (ultratech, no vehicles book yet)
>But the setting books themselves are amazingly well written and researched. the design team is amazing
Long and short, theres a lot to gurps, like LEGO. If you like building stuff, and making things from the ground up, then its for you.
>>47991117
Click it
It is a .PDF
>>47991117
Pros: if you like customizing things, GURPS is built for that. It's got systems for creating spells and powers with a simulacrum of balance, multiple ways to skin the same cat so you can choose the one that's appropriate for your play style.
Eg: hiking can be done by simply rolling dice against a hiking skill, or by doing some in depth calculations of terrain, fatigue, weather, leadership capability, survival skill, and navigation.
Cons:
If you don't want to use one of the established lines that do a lot of the work for you in establishing which rules are appropriate (eg, action, after the end [post apocalypse], dungeon fantasy [sword and sorcery dungeon crawls], or monster hunters [modern day Buffy the vampire slayer like stuff]) it might take a while to spin up enough system mastery to put together your setting of choice.
>>47991314
>spin up enough system mastery
rule of thumb when youre just setting things up with gurps? Pick a number, have them roll 3d6, make a note and move on
then, after the game, do a bit of reading up on the thing that caught you up, and learn. Its how I found my blindspots.
>>47988717
>>47989170
thanks anons
>>47991184
>>47991190
>>47991314
>>47991379
Much obliged
Welp, tried making a small urban SWAT mech using 3e Mecha, using pec related as inspiration; holy shit I can see why the old method was unpopular. I realized I could have afforded to make a set of arms much stronger five steps ago, but by then it was already too much work to go back and fix it, so now the arms are incredibly tiny in comparison to about everything else about the mech.
None of it was *hard* by any stretch, but it was tedious even with the tables and a calculator. An automated spreadsheet would do wonders.
Addendum: Having finished it, the arms are hilariously spindly; going by the book, even the heavier ST40 arms have Reach 0. Without a spreadsheet to automate the process though, I really don't feel like trying it again despite me understanding the system better and probably being able to get something closer to what I wanted this time around.
>>47991658
Using Vehicles 3e or the Mecha rules?
Because for Vehicles, there's the GVB program. It's great.
>>47991790
I glanced through Vehicles and was having trouble finding mech-related things, so I used Mecha instead; from what I can tell it's the same system and Mecha just streamlined the options to legs, arms, and other giant robot things instead of types of wheels, treads, propellers, and other things you would want for normal vehicles but not mechs.
>>47991658
>3e
Oh gods the pain
My favorite game Ive run in recent memory was where the party made street urchins and derilicts with 25/-50, and started with -1 wealth built in. They get 'recruited' by the local police, rounded up, and shuffled off to work off their debts.
They get handed to an eccentric man with a weird European accent, named Nicola Tesla.
He shoves them into strange canvas and brass pressure suits, then into big robot mecha.
And thus began the craziest mecha game I ever ran; The Diesel-Jet Mecha of Nicola Tesla, Against the World!
>>47991790
>>47991846
That beign said, I'll look at GVB when I get home, thanks for the suggestion!
>>47991190
Note for the anons who were looking for the alternate version of the OP PDF: this is it.
>>47991658
Yeah, 3e is pants. I've tried working with it too, but it's like, HOW am I supposed to imagine what base stats I need for my mecha? Because that's what I have to decide first of all, but the ramifications of my shitty decision will force me to scrap the project at the end and start over again.
Stop assuming I'm an actual vehicle engineer 3e Mecha.
Is anyone here hosting a game in need of players? I don't want to be "forever GM" anymore ;___;
>>47991064
It's a good thing you have a healer. I'm in a game with only a doctor that goes by the nickname "the butcher" where the new guy got his arm broken in the very first scene he was introduced.
He's been down one arm for weeks while it heals. It's not helped by the giant berserker woman in the group keeps beating him whenever she gets bored. (She's also the one that broke his arm in the first place)
>>47993837
Hahaha
Party DYNAMICS
>>47991846
Pyramid #51 has a simplified mecha design system that might be worth your time.
>>47994707
Oh my god I love this article
>>47994746
I'm also a fan. That's why I mentioned it. :)
>>47994746
You know it seems a little odd to me that particle beams don't have radiation effects at all.
>>47995794
Feel free to add the RAD modifier! I'm sure they only cut it for bookkeeping/scope
>>47994707
Oh yeah I'm very aware of that and I love that article too; I'd use it if it wasn't TL 10 and went lower than SM+3 (this is for a cyberpunk/post-cyberpunk game and even SM+3 is pushing it in terms of practical size).
Speaking of crippling traumas, can I use disadvantages to make RPM spells cheaper? E.g. grant Regrowth/Regeneration but with downside of stun/paralysis/etc. Like putting character into healing cocoon.
>>47993533
Thanks. I didn't notice the differing filesize.
Saved.
>>47996123
How hard would it be to expand that article to handle smaller mecha? (I've done a lot of homebrewing for other games, but I'm not familiar enough with GURPS to homebrew for it yet.)
>>47996201
Nope, and they actually add energy. However, if your drawback makes sense, it *could* (depending on the GM) drop it from a Greater effect to a Lesser one. My GM let me do that a couple times, like when I added a large amount of Arm ST (One arm) but the spell caused Severe Pain for like five minutes afterward as the bones and muscles returned to their natural state. Like most things with RPM, it's a case-by-case basis requiring significant GM oversight.
>>47996249
I suppose I could, though it'd mostly be guesswork for me. Still, I'll give it a shot and post my results (if any) here.
>>47996123
Well hey now, that's mechanical the size of a car, so that suits with Ghost in the Shell or Appleseed.
Smaller dudes sm 0 to 2 fit for cyborg rules; at that point you might as well just make pcs. Or someone in ultratech armor
>>47998153
>Size of a car
Jeez, yeah I didn't think about it that way, I guess you're right; SM+3 is normally over 20 feet tall/long, but I forgot about the +1/+2 to SM for boxy shape, so I guess those three-to-five-yard tall suits do still count as SM+3 because of how wide/bulky they are. Still need to bump down the TL level, but that should be easy enough. Thanks anon!This did initially start as an exercise for replacing/expanding the ultratech powered armor list, though. There is a "battlesuit" option in 3e Mecha, maybe it'll be simpler?I mean, it probably won't be, but a man can dream, can't he?
>>47998274
What is the big issue with Ultra tech, anyways?
I've seen you guys mention you don't like it a couple times, and I'm curious why.
>>47998314
It was not nearly as well researched nor as generic as it should have been. It also (due to being released several years earlier) doesn't balance against High-Tech (TL8 weapons have more options, often better damage and capacity, and are cheaper than TL9 or 10; neither armor nor gadgets compare favorably either).
>>47998274
>Still need to bump down the TL level,
When doubt, bloat the prices or make it heavier. God forbid, cut DR or ST by 0.75
>>47998685
Best thing ever though is an ETC version of a high tech rifle.
Polish antitank rifle with APHCDS rounds? You could kill a building!
>>47998685
Oh. That is disappointing.
So, basically, all the numbers are poorly calibrated to the rest of the system and it's not flexible enough to do what you'd expect from a GURPS SciFi Tech Book?
So when you guys do GURPS SciFi, do you find you do a lot of homebrewing, or converting stuff from other games, to make up for the Ultratech deficiencies?
>>47998314
A variety of reasons, some more legitimate than others. The core of it is that Ultratech fails at the G and U part of GURPS; it presents a specific fututre where arms technology has for the most part fully outpaced armor technology and a good Dodge score (or shooting first) is the best armor, and this makes running different types of scifi harder than it should be.
Also, I've had a long-running feud with UT over its lack of cusomization options. It started with cybernetics (I wanted to stat my own) but has since spread to other areas; right now, that area is powered armor.
>>47998839
I often use the modifiers and general guide alongside high tech. HT is a great piece of rpg, and ultratech wasn't completely pants on head retarded. Just some of the design choices sucked.
>>47998863
>Just some of the design choices sucked.
Hell, a lot of UT could be fixed with a paragraph-sized blurb in the first chapter. "If you want to run [GENRE A], double listed DR values. For [GENRE B], consider blah blah blah..." There's already something similar, with them explaining how to divide up the TL depending on genre type, so they could have put it there. I wouldn't have fixed every issue, but it would have helped reduce frustration with the book.
>>47998968
First drafts
Ugh
>>47998863
Is there somewhere with rules for modular design of weapons and armor, like Spaceships?
Something that will let me say: Okay, here's my scifi laser sword, I gave it this this and this to fit the setting, and because it's a piece of TL11 tech that means it costs X Gurps$$?
>>47998983
Nope, but that sounds like a great Pyramid article. Get crackin' Anon!
>>47998983
Hup to!
I suggest balancing by damage type, then once base cost is determined, using modifiers for real granular design
>>47998983
>>47998999
Addendum (i.e. I bothered to actually read your post this time; what a waste of trips): There's an article for laser weapon design and a "build armor from the ground up" article, but neither are quite as piecemeal as what you're talking about nor do they handle tweaks/customization. It's from scratch or nothing at all.
>>47999050
Hmm. That's too bat, but better than nothing. Where do I find those articles?
>>47998999
I'm not nearly fluent enough in GURPS to start homebrewing such things.
I can do races for FFGStar Wars well enough, and tons of stuff for 3.x, but I just started getting into GURPS a few weeks ago.
When I'm more familiar with the mechanics, then I will consider homebrewing to fill gaps, but in the meantime I'm just shopping around to find out what's already been done.
>>47998802
Steyr-Solothurn S18-1000, 20x138mm + Armor piercing discarding sabot hardcore rounds
Dam: 6dx3(5) pi++
Acc 5+1
Range 2,100/8,000
Wt 117/12.1
Rof 1
Ammo 10(5)
St 18B†
Bulk -11
Rcl 3
Cost $25,000/$62
LC 1
>>47999510
>6$ a bullet
>>47999510
omg is he okay
>>47993837
What are the rules for a disabled limb healing anyway?
How do I make strength for my legs only? A modified version of Arm ST? How much this limitation would cost?
I want to make a centaur, and the Banestorm suggestion of ST+8 seens ridiculous, since it affects the entire body. I want the centaur to have enhanced ST only on the horse part, and not on the human part. This can be done?
>>48000837
You could take regular ST+8, and then buy negative values of Arm ST as a drawback.
Just an idea.
>>48000931
How? Arm ST as a disadvantage? How does that work? I just reverse the costs? ST Arm for both arms would be -5/level?
>>48000446
Healer usually does just raw HP, but can remove an infection or disease, or a roll at a penalty can restore a crippled gib.
>>48001003
Or bonus ST -50% (doesn't affect man half)
>>47999510
Barrett M82A1 is nearly as much damage and less than 1/3 the $ cost. Oh, and it doesn't need a two-wheeled carriage to transport and fire because of the weight. Sure the pi++ is scary nasty but you would need to regularly shoot things with HP 60+ (20+ if you load the Barrett with AP to match the Steyr) before even noticing the difference. For shooting most meat sacks or small vehicles the 40 pound gun is probably a better choice than the 100+ pound gun. And the ST and Bulk are a little more reasonable too.
>>48000446
For healing crippled limbs see B422 and B424. Short version is they may not be uncrippled just from healing the underlying HP damage.
So in my boozed up state I decided to take another crack at 3e Mecha, this time trying out the battlesuit option. While the rules weren't all that different, everything went much more smoothly, and some things were helpful; the battlesuit "cockpit" -- i.e. the place where the wearer goes -- gives minimum and maximum volumes for arms, body, and legs, which was nice. What was more helpful, though, was a second, more careful, readthrough where I found out the book explicitly tells you "nigga always add volume to your arms; the listed amount's just the minimum, and unless you've got weapons installed, you're going to end up with retarded T-Rex arms." I ended up with a reasonably powerful and decently proportioned TL 9 SM+0 sleek power armor appropriate for well-funded corpsec squads. The only thing left is reverse-engineering the "damage to armor" rules from LTC3 to find how much total DR the wearer gains from something with DR 100, torso HP 85, and limb HP 20.
>tl;dr I understood 3e Mecha's design system after a day and a bottle of booze on an empty stomach and I feel like gloating hahaha.
>>48001608
>booze made me better at 3e vehicles
News at 11
>>48001608
Nevermind, it's overpenetration rules. The answer seems to be just add 1/4 HP (normally half, but seeing as you're *inside* the suit rather than behind it, I halved it again), making the final DR 120/105, which isn't too shabby at all; it's a nice middleground between the Powered Combat Walker and Combat Walker from UT in terms of DR and cost (it does blow them both out of the water in terms of extra ST and Move, however)*.
Really, this is what I wanted in the first place: more options, something that bridges the gap between the extremes given in the book, a MED weight to fill the void between the listed LHT and HVY. I probably will, however, update the existed suits to to make them more in-line with Mecha's
*Move is still way better, but if I run the new suit through the 3e>4e conversion, ST is ALSO right in the middle between PCW and CW. Goddamn I love it when a plan comes together.
>>48001788
Provide stat blocks when done anon, it's the only decent thing to do.
>>48001929
The one I did so far:
TL9; Urban Assault Walker; Location: All; DR 120/105; $125,000; 405 lb. empty; D/5 hr.; LC1
Notes:
-Use higher DR for hits to Torso and Skull; the lower DR protects other locations.
-The battery size is not a 1:1 translation; in 3e, it's a $200 2 lb. rechargable energy cell, and the closest I could get in 4e is the $100 5 lb. D-cell. It should be fine though, it's trading $100 for 3 extra pounds. Given time, I could tweak the operation time and kWs of the energy cell to get something exactly equal to a 4e power cell, but it's bedtime for me, you fa/tg/uys have fun!
>>48002122
Oh, it also has ST 25/gives Striking ST and Lifting ST +15 and gives the user Move 12 (like I said, vastly superior to standard ultra-tech models as is, though I could set the move to something more normal tomorrow and post the changed weight/cost). It has both active and passive sensors with an operating radius of 5 miles and a basic comsuite package (radio, GPS, IFF system, etc.). This was just a practice, so I didn't add other features standard on other models such as infrared cloaking or such; it is Sealed, however.
>>48002260
>>48002122
>low impressed whistle
Goddamn anon
>>48001003
That's how I'd do it, yeah. Just reverse the costs, like buying down an attribute.
>Buy up STR
>Buy down Arm STR
>Now you have bought up everything *EXCEPT* Arm STR.
>>48001267
This is the other option. I'd prefer to buy negative Arm STR at negative point cost.
>>48002122
I think we're gonna need to be walked through this, because it sounds awesome.
This is 3e Mecha, Yeah?
How are you converting it over to use with 4e?
>>48000837
>ST+8(Size +1 -10%, No Fine Manipulators -50%, Lower Body Only -20%) [16]
Lower body only usually costs -50% but ST cost can't be lowered bellow -80%. This is the proper way to do it
Spashe MareensI'm trying to stat Terminator and Centurion armors plus the Dreadnought dreadnought walker, should i use mecha for centurion/dreadnought or make everything as powered armor?
>>47987853
Tactical Shooting is cool.
>>47984635
Anyone have/know of more stuff like this? I.e., more spells/etc fleshed out from the magic systems we have?
Any good gurps homebrew/fan projects that aren't in the mega?
>>48003891
well, i'm writing a complete and expanded version of Only War, but, i'm writing it on portuguese. Also i'm making some custom tokens.
on pic a dread ironclad with hurricane bolter and assault drill.
>>48003891
I've been adding them as I find them.
>>48003817
There's a sizable conversion of regular GURPS Magic Spells converted overto RPM. It's in the trove.
And there *WAS* a more complete collection, but more roughly converted, if I understand correctly, located here
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=112372
Sadly the links are dead, but if someone finds a copy of hte file I'd be very grateful for it.
There's also a website full of GURPS fan material and conversions, but I can't remember what the damn thing is called.
Here's a guide on the process to convert Sorcery spells to magic Spells.
http://forums.sjgames.com/showthread.php?t=137010
>>48004167
When you've got something presentable, I'd be happy to add your portuguese book to the trove, and just tag it as portuguese, so please do share it with us.
Maybe someone else will come along and want to translate it later. I imagine statblocks would be easy enough to translate to english, at the very least.
![Space Wolves Bjorn(PC, MM)-14[front and multimelta].png](https://i.imgur.com/VTnEzjR.png "Space Wolves Bjorn(PC, MM)-14[front and multimelta].png")
>>48004194
Not really, rules, tables and templates are an ass to translate, trust me i've done that too many times.
Anyway, i will try to make it into a 'good enough' pdf on this week as it only needs the space marines armors and i'm done.Tyra, eldars, edgy eldars, IG, sisters and skitiiari are covered on the current state, with regiment creation(random, no point system yet), and character creation(random, i have no idea on how to do it point based without loosing the only war feel)
Also help lorelawyers, should i use the rules for walkers(mechas) or Powered Armor for the Centurion and Dreadnought?i will finish the space wolves painting soon and i'm accepting army scheme requests for Eldars, Dark Eldar, Space Marines, Imperial Guard, Necrons, Orks, Sisters, Tau, CSM or Tyranids; basically everything but skitiarii, i have yet to get the servitors models on a decent state
>>47998968
There's a modifier for gear which cuts the weight by (iirc) a third, for (iirc) double cost. It's listed in the first chapter, under Modifying Gadgets. I've found that applying that to armour, (once) free of charge, does a lot to address the imbalance issues, especially with TL 9-10. If the players are happy with armour weighing the same as it's listed, then they get 1.5x DR for 1.5 cost.
So, for example, they can have a Reflex vest for $300, which has DR 12/4*, and weighs 1.65 lbs, or they can have a Reflex Vest for $450, which has DR 18/6*, and weighs 2 lbs.
It's not a *perfect* fix, but it helps a fair bit.
>>48003230
>>>48002122
>I think we're gonna need to be walked through this, because it sounds awesome.
>This is 3e Mecha, Yeah?
>How are you converting it over to use with 4e?
Bump for curiosity
Hi /gurp/, you might be able to help me out because I'm straight out of ideas.
I'm in a game that would be best described as 'avengers except as a PMC'; among the party is Super Soldier, a chemist/nerd with DR and magic, an actual magician, and a guy who's put all his points into telekinesis. I made a shooty/sneaky person, and feel pretty useless because there's not ever going to be sneaking and my one gimmick of 'more Speed for fatigue' is kinda shit as far as powers go.
tl;dr I need ideas for some fun/useful powers for a sneaky/judo/sniper person in a 200-pt game.
>>48006365
Invisibility is nice.
Mind control could be useful for a sneaky sneak.
Or just be a wizard.
I was actually thinking of making a GURPS thread to ask questions. Good thing I saw there was a general first.
I'm an anti-GURPS person. I don't hate the system out of hand, it was my first RPG. But I did grow disillusioned with it when I found other systems. I get the impression that maybe I was a little too new to use GURPS properly, and now that I'm struggling to find systems that aren't my main system (nWoD2e/Chronicles of Darkness, before anyone accuses me of playing D&D) I'm tempted to go back to it, mostly for it's universality and the fact that much as I love Mutants & Masterminds' Toughness system, it's a bit of a clusterfuck and the Saves can lead to lackluster gamefeel.
Can anyone help address my problems? These are what I remember disliking:
● First off, Chargen really *does* take a lot of time and effort, and has a lot of moving parts to keep track of
● The skills list is huge, and making a pre-determined list of skills feels like it would lead to awkward situations when a skill you didn't allow seems more fitting (though that seems to be complained about in some of the posts here)
● Combat is uninteractive, as both parties are rolling their Attack or Defense against their own values (I may have done this wrong, or there may be options I didn't realize as a newb)
● Magic=Fatigue is dumb and bothers me. It's so limiting. You get Muscle Wizards.
● Everything outside of combat feels bland and samey, and while combat is multiple rolls with action time, everything else is just one single roll. This is a really old design thing that I'm surprised has stuck around, but a lot of newer systems have subsystems to make things like investigation or social interaction or crafting feel interesting in their own right. Maybe this isn't a problem and I just didn't read the right sourcebook.
● Everything run in GURPS feels like GURPS.
>>48006490
Also, of what I'm thinking about doing, the main one at the moment is that I want a system to do something like Evangelion, but Adeptus Evangelion is too difficult and crunchy (and the dice poker bullshit of CthulhuTech is just right out). GURPS doesn't seem like a big upgrade in that area, but it *does* feel like it would work better than flipping between Dark Heresy and the Dark Heresy mod. I want something that lets me run giant robots as if they were suits or something, so that the pilot's out-of-robot skills matter. I doubt there's a "pilot a giant flesh robot with your mind" splat for GURPS, but who knows.
>>48006116
I'm back, sorry for the wait.
The difference between 3e and 4e really isn't that intense, and most of what I have is a "close enough" conversion.
At the end of the mecha/battlesuit creation process, you're going to have a fully-statted vehicle with DR, cost, weight, and operation time. These can go straight into the statblock with the exception of DR, which will need a bit of tweaking; as a vehicle, it has HP along with DR, but if we're treating the suit as armor, its HP is (mostly) irrelevant outside of how much *extra* cover DR it gives the wearer. Add 1/4 of the section's HP to its DR to find the overall DR for a given hit location.
When creating a mech, you set its ST to whatever you want it to be. Remember that 3e ST =/= 4e ST! In third edition, ST got bloated very quickly, and 4e gives you the same effect at lower ST values; for my suit, the ST was set at 60, but the converted value was only 25. Regardless, the ST score is a flat value, but you can make it a ST modifier rather than a ST replacer by subtracting 10 (average human ST from it).
Move is also set during mech creation. If you want human-scale movement, don't make the legs too powerful; I set them at 3 kW and got Move 12 while the book's example battlesuit has .3 kW for a much more reasonable Move 6 (it'll be lighter/cheaper too). If you want to make this a Move modifier, I'd do the same thing you do for ST and subtract the human average i.e. 5. Things like Super Jump will have to be eyeballed.
Stuff like the sensors and comsuite are part and parcel of mecha design, I didn't do anythign special there. If you want, you could skip this step though and leave some space to fill the suit with 4e Ultratech gadgets afterward if you're worried about cost/weight changes from 3e to 4e. I honestly wouldn't worry though, as a lot of Ultratech was literally copy and paste'd from its 3e version, so there probably aren't any changes outside of weapon tables.
>>48006490
1. This can only be sped up so much by limiting options and player knowledge. For new players it is recommended to let them choose templates and build on those leaving only precious few decisions to be made.
2. Don't disallow skills that would exist in that world. Just give recommendations for what skills are important to have.
3. Combat is interactive if you know what you are doing. Even when you "only" defend you can opt to retreat, to drop and roll and such to improve your odds, but if you drop you're now on the ground. Martial Arts is a very good book for even more options. Add Hit Locations, Crippling Limbs and other features to make the combat more interactive.
4. FP can be bought without HT and most mages have Energy Reserve instead of high FP. You can also lower the cost of spells with high skill and even cast many spells for free that way. Muscle Wizards isn't a thing unless you want to divide points between being Wizardy and beig Muscly.
5. There's plenty of sourcebooks to add more depth to skill rolls but I've never seen this as a big issue as long as the GM doesn't let you beat a skill challenge with just one roll.
6. And everything run in D&D feels like D&D.
Feel free to add and/or correct me if you think I've been unclear or anything else.
>>48006600
Tell me more about Combat. I've been told I either didn't know about or didn't understand that combat is more complex than
>Attacker rolls under their own TN
>Defender rolls under their own TN
>Attacker rolls damage
(Though I do hate that Damage is determined by a chart. Even when it was my first game I disliked charts).
I've never heard of Energy Reserve. My main issue is that a character who has high HT is going to have more mana, basically, and a character with high FP is going to be able to deal with things that would fatigue you more. It means the stereotypically twiggy and frail wizard is able to run for days with a smile on his face. I don't mind that kind of thing sometimes, but it seems more fitting for martial arts powers and special secret sword techniques than it does for book learnin' nerd wizards.
>6. And everything run in D&D feels like D&D.
>(nWoD2e/Chronicles of Darkness, before anyone accuses me of playing D&D)
Games in different gamelines feel very distinct from one another due to the different subsystems and the way powers are always different. I've even found that the core mechanics can be used for a variety of non-urban horror games. I'm just too lazy to homebrew up something else.
>>48006584
I think they had something about biomecha in some pyramid issue...
>>48006718
Any idea which, or what the specifics were? I figure if nothing else "you feel what the robot feels, if your robot gets too damaged you take fake and then real damage" isn't too difficult to handle and shouldn't require much 'brewing. I don't actually need rules for the specifics of how a giant robot works. I'd just treat it like a character.
>>48006490
-Templates! They cut down chargen time a LOT because they both give direction and limit options available. Recently, two articles of note have been written: Pointless Slaying and Looting, and Pointless Monster Hunting. Both replace the standar chargen system with a "packages" approach; instead of building character with discrete points, you pick an Archetype (Strong, Brainy, Agile, etc.), eight "slots" worth of Abilities (some are worth more than one slot), five Heroic Flaws, and distribute ten Skill Levels among very very broad Wildcard skills (more on those later). It's still GURPS, but with the points hidden away; the archetpye is worth 100 points, each ability slot is worth 10, each heroic flaw gives back 10 points, and every skill level is 12 points, making the final character the exact same as a normal 250-point character. PS&L is for GURPS Dungeon Fantasy (its not!D&D line) and PMH is for GURPS Monster Hunters (its not!WoD:Hunters line)
-Wildcard skill, my man. Replace the huge list of individual skills with broad "theme" skills that cover a lot of things. Don't worry about missing a skill and having a useless thief than can't sneak, just buy Burglar! instead (wildcard skills always have exclamation points after them; I'm not just super excited about them). This can simplify things a lot.
-I'd chalk that up to inexperience of the play group/something interfereing with the tone. If people can make exciting stories about their D&D fights where it's d20 rolls vs. static AC, people can make stories about their GURPS fights where it's opposed rolls.
>cont.
>>48006803
-There are TONS of magic systems in GURPS. RPM (not!WoD:Mage) and Sorcery are the most "in" right now, so give them a look. There are also minor variants that use the same default magic system but divorce it form FP. Threshhold comes to mind; instead of taking the spell's cost off your FP, you tally it up throughout the day, and if you get it too high, you risk magical catastrophe. Lastly, because you said GURPS is your "first RPG," I'm going to assume you played in 3e. In 3e, FP = ST, which did lead to muscle wizards. In 4e though, FP = HT, meaning a good number of wizards will be reasonably healthy but unable to benchpress the party fighter. You can still use ER or buy up FP independant of HT though.
-Social Engineering expanded on social conflict rules for those that want them. Similarly, I think the Monster Hunters series has one of the best investigation rules I've seen in an RPG in a long long time.
-Again, I think something else is stopping you form "getting into" the game. At the end of the day, all RPGs are just sitting around a table and rolling dice, but most times we ignore that in favor of what's going on *in* the game.
>>48006803
I've always just thought of Templates as the way to do "Races" that I hate ("you're an Elf, so you inherently get +1 Dex even if you sit around reading all day"). I've got a love/hate relationship with "packages", but that sounds like the kind of thing I like, as opposed to hyper restrictive Warhammer style where your first choice determines all future choices ("You want to be a noble who's good at fistfighting and climbing? Too bad!")
Wildcards are a thing I've heard about, but I generally dislike those sort of super broad rules lite type things. Always reminds me of bad rules lite games where your skills are things like "Heart" and "Fight". Maybe it'd be worth it to try, though. Or I guess I could just use the CofD skill list if I'm really shitty about it.
>If people can make exciting stories about their D&D fights where it's d20 rolls vs. static AC, people can make stories about their GURPS fights where it's opposed rolls.
Iunno. I tagged along to Pathfinder a few times, and all the classes really did seem to play differently.
Also, what're the acronyms standing for? PS&L and RPM. PMH is probably something Monster Hunters.
>>48006849
I might have played in 4e. I think it was HT. This would have been, like... 2007 or so? You mention Energy Reserve like the other poster, though, so maybe not.
I was actually going to ask what the most current version is. Although, oh, hey, that's a pdf, not an image. Neato. Other generals should do that.
>>48006709
>Combat
So many variables here matters, or not depending on what amount of rules you want to use. Damage Types do varying things and some damage types can target specific spots others can't. Hit Locations can be used to effectively disarm or neutralize an opponent without having to knock them out or kill them. Armor differences in varying areas can matter greatly, attacking from sides or behind is a huge advantage. By default damage is horribly lethal which means you don't want to get hit, losing HP really sucks. Afflictions and Spells specifically can overcome even high armor and skill, but then you might have high resistances. Being bigger or smaller than the opponent matters. Varying techniques and combat skills can overcome obstacled. I personally love all the charts, but that's just a preference. You can take sacrifical actions, using Martial Arts you can fight defensively or offensively without going full All-Out X for it.
>D&D
I just used that because it is the system I play besides of GURPS, I haven't played WoD or similar games in that line so I couldn't say that. I just said that to show that it doesn't make sense to me to say that. Obviously it feels like GURPS to play GURPS, it feels like X to play X.
>Wizards
Then they opted to be that way. You can alter it to be only ER based, only HP based or many other things if you want. That's really simple. You could even base ER on IQ if you want to be crazy. It is so easy to alter this small part and the whole point is that you should alter things to suit you, the Fantasy book even goes into great detail on how you could alter the basic magic system to suit different needs.
>Conclusion
We're happy to help out if you bring up issues you want to solve in here. GURPS is so huge it helps to have others who might know what you're looking for.
>>48006709
It boils down to options. Yes, you *can* just fight how you're describing, but that shit's not only boring, it's inefficient. Throw in Deceptive Attacks to throw off your enemy's defenses, gamble on a vital Hit Location, probe with a Defensive Attack and wait for your opponent to fuck up or throw caution to the wind and try and take them out with an All-Out Attack, grab their shield, step into CC and throw a punch... you've got a lot of shit at your disposal, don't fall into the trap of "full attack every round" 'cuz that shit is DULLLLLLLLLL.
HT is 10 points/level, while FP/ER are 3 points/level; any smart wizard is going to buy up FP/ER and spend the rest of those points getting better at magic.
There are tons of subsystems in GURPS, it all depends on which ones you use. A game of PS&L that goes full cinematic is going to feel very very different from a operators operating operationally game that tracks limb damage, bleeding, uses realistic exhaustion rules, is autistic about tactical positioning, etc.
>>48006749
I honestly don't remember. You have to look for some GURPS mecha rules compilation I'm afraid.
>>48006922
>Obviously it feels like GURPS to play GURPS, it feels like X to play X.
I just mean that a lot of other games I've played can feel very different depending on what you do. GURPS to me felt the same if I were doing a haunted house game or a dungeon crawl (which were the only two things I ran in GURPS)
What are Afflictions? Are they analogous to Conditions or status effects?
Tell me more about Energy Reserves. That wasn't a thing in the version or book I used way back when. I assume I could basically just treat it like "FP for Magic keyed off IQ" for mana points? I forget if GURPS has a stat similar to Wisdom or Charisma... I should probably download the book again at this point.
>GURPS is so huge it helps to have others who might know what you're looking for.
Yeah, I think that even if the game isn't for me in the end, a lot of my problems come from having to learn it myself as a neophyte.
>>48006951
Aren't there special maneuvers that I just somehow never noticed? Like "Take -2 on your own attack to give your opponent -2 on his"? One of the things that made me want to give GURPS another shot is because CofD now has really high defense, which encourages you to spend resources or make special maneuvers to land a good hit (or have a dice pool at all), and I remembered that people said GURPS had something similar going on that wasn't intuitive to me when I started.
>HT is 10 points/level, while FP/ER are 3 points/level; any smart wizard is going to buy up FP/ER and spend the rest of those points getting better at magic.
Well yeah, but you still have the fact that more HT means more FP, and if you use FP, that means you'll still have wizards shrugging off Fatigue effects
>Read this https://dl.dropboxusercontent.com/u/10971026/Combat%20Maneuvers%20Cheat%20Sheet%202.04.pdf
Holy crap, maybe this isn't the game for me...
So lets say we are playing a WW2 game what are somethings that I could morph into. Also We start of with 250 points does that mean if I put 120 into morph I can turn into something worth 130 points or no?
>>48006907
Templates can be "classes" as much as "races," though "class" templates will be more expensive and should provide more options. For example, and Elf racial template may always give +1 DX, but a Knight class template will give the player options to work with: do you favor focusing on mastering one weapon or being competent with many, sword and board or twohanders, leader of men or lone warrior, tactician or go with your gut, etc. The Pointless chargen rules are great for people that don't have the time/desire to handle the distribution of 150+ points among skills, attributes, powers, etc.
Wildcards are generally more focused than those super-rules-light games. WoD's/CoD's skills would be considered Wildcards under GURPS rules.
At the end of the day though, it's still either rolling d20+bonuses and aiming for a target number, or choosing an effect that requires the target to roll d20+bonuses to resist. All differences are illusions brought about by each class having iconic, evocative names and art.
PS&L: Pointless Slaying and Looting
PMH: Pointless Monster Hunting
RPM: Ritual Path Magic
>>48007031
God, whoever made that needs to be dragged out on the street and shot. That is the worst design choice I have ever seen, ESPECIALLY if you're looking for a crash course in GURPS.
>I'm going to use tiny ass font to make everythign hard to read! Then I'm going to jam-pack the page full of this tiny text so everything looks 20 times more complex than it actually is.
>What's that, gives the basic rules and then cover other cases elsewhere so people understand the basic of the system? Nah fuck that I'm throwing it all together in one textbox so the "Damage" entry is TWENTY-EIGHT LINES long!
>Time to be as verbose as possible; why say "add your swing/thrust damage to the weapon's to find total damage" when I can take six times as long being confusing!
>CLASHING
>COLORS
>EVERYWHERE
>>48007002
>Like "Take -2 on your own attack to give your opponent -2 on his"?
A +1 on an attack roll or it's skill is generally a lot cheaper than a +1 on a defense roll, so the actual exchange rate is "for every -2 you take on your attack, the enemy takes -1 on his defense".
Generally, combat in GURPS is more fun the more you are willing to interact with it. Going for a vanilla attack every turn isn't very engaging, at the end of the day it might get the job done. But taking a few Evaluate maneuvers and aiming for that Depective All-Out Attack (determined) to the skull for a killing blow is not only going to be more fun, but much more effective.
>>48007124
>At the end of the day though, it's still either rolling d20+bonuses and aiming for a target number, or choosing an effect that requires the target to roll d20+bonuses to resist.
Well, in D&D the target number is based on the person you're trying to hit, while in GURPS unless you do maneuvers you're just trying to roll under your OWN skill, so it's a bit different. I remember thinking "I should half the defender's trait and apply that as a penalty", but by then I'd already moved on and was halfway through a Tri-Stat or Dogs in the Vineyard game or something. It seems like a lot of the Maneuvers are still sort of... uncaring about your opposition, to be honest. You roll without caring about what your opponent's traits are. If I remember right (and it's still the same) the main thing is that whoever is further from the TN wins? Downloading the book now. Though looking through the Mega, I forgot just how sourcebook reliant GURPS is. It's not like M&M where everything is essentially right there in the core and the additional books are just nice filler and ideas on how to use the existing material...
>God, whoever made that needs to be dragged out on the street and shot. That is the worst design choice I have ever seen, ESPECIALLY if you're looking for a crash course in GURPS.
It's from the threads pdf :V
Your one seems a lot better.
Hey GGen-I'm picking up RPM for thge first time today myself and now that I've struggled into making a cheat-sheet for my players, what other spell collections or expansions can you recommend? My players are all coming from DnD, so for the first intro at least I want to get as close to the Wizard they know. Massive spellbooks are a lot easier than making it for scratch, to begin.
>>48007002
>Aren't there special maneuvers that I just somehow never noticed?
Yep. Deceptive Attack is -2 to your own attack, -1 to target's defenses (because of how GURPS calculates defenses, it's effectively -2 to own skill for -2 to opponent's skill) and in the Basic Set ("Melee Attack Options" on p. 369 of Campaigns; note that the page numbers for Campaigns pick up where Characters left off, so the first page is p. 338). Between combat options like that, the expanded list in Martial Arts, and the variety of combat techniques, there are plenty of things to do beyond simply attacking normally.
It's an efficiency thing. Instead of spending 10 points on HT and getting +1 FP "free," most will spend 9 points getting +3 FP or +3 ER and putting that one saved point into a spell. For the record, ER is form GURPS Powers. It functions as FP with a few changes:
-It doesn't help with FP loss; heat, hunger, starvation, and anything else that starts as FP damage does not affect ER. One one hand, this is great; you could be half-dead wandering through the desert and still have plenty of energy for your spells. On the other hand, it sucks because I'd rather not be half-dead in the first place.
-Running out of ER doesn't mess you up like it does when you run out of FP.
-You're constantly regenerating ER; it's at the same rate as FP (1 per 10 min.), but it doesn't require rest, so you can be fleeing some big nasty while waiting for your energy to recover.
And lastly, there are plenty of systems that either replce the existing magic system entirely or divorce it from FP.
>>48007296
>And lastly, there are plenty of systems that either replce the existing magic system entirely or divorce it from FP.
Tell me more about them.
What would be best for replicating the systems from AdEva?
You've got squicky biological mutations and also magic that involves using your psychological fucked upness to perform psionic abilities through your giant meat robot.
>>48007251
>If I remember right (and it's still the same) the main thing is that whoever is further from the TN wins?
That's a different kind of roll entirely. It's good that combat isn't decided by Quick Contests (the ones you're thinking of), otherwise it would be very onesided, favoring the attacker.
In reality you roll not to miss, and the defender rolls to avoid your attack. A successful defense completely negates an attack, although defense rolls tend to go lower than attack rolls. A -1 on defense can be very dangerous, and going for a Feint or Deceptive Attacks can make your life so much easier when attacking.
>>48007379
>You've got squicky biological mutations and also magic that involves using your psychological fucked upness to perform psionic abilities through your giant meat robot.
Standard Powers sounds like your best bet, rather than a magic system, and has a whole rulebook dedicated to it.
>>48007251
Nah, a successful defense roll trumps a successful attack roll; margins don't matter. An attack that succeeds by 6 would still get parried by someone that rolled their defense score exactly. If you're regularly succeeding with huge margins, start using depective attacks to keep from being parried or eat up your excess skill with a painful targeted attack to the face, skull, or eye!
Are you talking about 3e M&M? A friend of mine is starting a game with that system and holy hell I hated the layout. I found it incredibly unintuitive are hard to parse through. As for adding stuff, GURPS kind of has to: the amount of detail and options its playerbase wants simply cannot fit in one book; people already find the Basic Set's 575-page length to be intimidating, so can you imagine what would happen if it included all the extra stuff from Martial Arts, Powers, and Thaumatology (on a related note, those three books form the Holy Trifecta of Good All-Purpose Supplements)? Most other books are either setting/campaign advice (e.g. Fantasy, Space), tech books (e.g. Low-Tech, High-Tech, Ultra-Tech), or things that *do* just show you how to put together already existing pieces in new ways/do the heavy lifitng for GMs and provide templates/point out which rules should be used for the genre (Dungoen Fantasy, Action, Monster Hunters, and now After the End).
Some interplay strategies that allow attacker/defender to have more impetus on the other party's ability:
1. Deceptive Attack - Every 2 sacrificed on attack lowers defense by 1
2. Presenting - A defender can improve defense to some locations in exchange to defense to some other locations by standing in certain profiles relative to the attacker.
3.Facing - An attack from the right angle lowers enemy defenses
4. Feinting - A contest of skills with the loser getting a big penalty.
5. Grappling - Successful grappling requires a contest of skills/strength, if the aggressor wins, the foe is pinned; otherwise the defender shrugs it off.
6. Affliction/Malediction - A contest of skill versus Health/Will (usually respectively, but it is semantic)
Those are the fundamental options that come to mind when talking about methods to make combat feel more "participatory."
Also, are these package rules and quick chargen in the corebook, or am I going to need a supplement that I then have to explain to my group?
>>48007395
>>48007424
That's still a bit annoying. You're essentially rolling in a vacuum.
Muh gamefeel.
>>48007424
>Are you talking about 3e M&M? A friend of mine is starting a game with that system and holy hell I hated the layout. I found it incredibly unintuitive are hard to parse through
I haven't played 3e yet, I think (I played the one where they still used D&D Abilities). I always liked it, though half the book is essentially a toolkit for creating powers and abilities.
>>48006490
>You get Muscle Wizards.
It's not really that related - it's based on general stamina and not strength. A lot of magic systems see magic as taking a toll on your body - Shadowrun's Drain for example.
Ritual Path Magic - which is similar to Mage crossed with the Dresden Files - doesn't use it as standard, though it's still a painful and inefficient option for emergencies or group casting.
>>48007468
On one hand, M&M 3e did fix some issues with the system. On the other hand they thought editors and layout designers were for pussies. I enjoyed 2e a lot though, but that may be my nostalgia goggles acting up again, as I havent' even opened up a 2e book in about a decade.
>>48007506
Drain has different forms for different Traditions. Some use Willpower and some use Charisma and some use Stamina.
>>48007511
I mostly like M&M 2e because it's what I wanted out of GURPS in a tighter package, and I love Toughness Saves. But it's so frustrating to get all the players on the same page when it comes to things like "no, you can't play a Bathroom sniper in this PL 8 game, I don't care if technically you have the Power Points"
>>48007263
Over on the sjgames forums, a very cool dude is about halfway through converting all the spells from the Magic book to RPM.
There's also a thread about custom RPM spells, which has some good things - but, actually, let me just throw up my own collection of RPM stuff that I've gathered. It's not everything - there're a couple of pyramid issues with more that was mostly ignored - but it has a fair bit.
>>48007468
>That's still a bit annoying. You're essentially rolling in a vacuum.
As opposed to roll against each other and seeing who got the biggest number? That tells you very little about what really happened- did you miss, or did he dodge? I don't get much 'gamefeel' out of that, to be honest. Not to mention that it would be incompatible with GURPS, the attacker would win 8/10.
>>48007599
>Drain has different forms for different Traditions.
And that's the extent of the effect of Traditions in gameplay. Shadowrun is not the best game if you want fluff to affect gameplay, really. In GURPS terms, a Shaman and a Mage would be using different magic systems. RPM is full of that ritualistic feel, and Sorcery is goddamn perfect for blasting people with magic. They are actually different in all the places that matter, instead of in what Attribute constitue Drain.
Also, all Drain rolls use Willpower, the key difference is in LOG/CHA/INT, and CHA traditions will always be better than LOG.
>>48007599
>But it's so frustrating to get all the players on the same page
Heads up, the same issue exist in GURPS. Hell, the same issue exists in *any* generic system, especially ones that use point-buy rather than some sort of class system; when a system can do everything, players' imaginations will scatter in every direction and you'll end up with a party that's not only thematically inappropriate but one of varrying competencies as well -- when one player's definition of cool is Big Boss and another's is Superman, you're going to have a lot of trouble. That's the price you pay for having so many options.
If you can't herd those cats, you're gonna have a bad time.
>>48007599
>Drain has different forms for different Traditions. Some use Willpower and some use Charisma and some use Stamina.
Um, what? Everyone uses Willpower + other mental attribute.
>>48007784
+1
And this is where product lines like Monster Hunters and Dungeon Fantasy really shine, because they have templates that keep everybody on the same page. They're worth a look even if you're running a completely different genre. Worked examples are wonderful tools.
>>48003204
>>48001267
>>48003337
I made the reverse Arm ST option, and by the description of the advantage it makes more sense. The entire body has ST+8 (and everything it entails), but the arms are human-like, and they can't lift, throw or attack with the mighty of the horse, only the mighty of the man.
Thanks guys, you're fucking awesome.
Back from a shitty nap
>>48007729
>As opposed to roll against each other and seeing who got the biggest number?
No, as opposed to your roll being to made against someone else's trait. 1d20+Traits vs a DC or your dice pool minus their trait is much less "vacuum" than rolling separately to decide whether the attack connects. I bring up gamefeel because you roll the same thing to hit a speedy foe as you would to hit a giant stationary barn.
Also, I feel like the traditions aren't that samey. I know trying to make a Magician and trying to make a PhysAdept was very different. (>>48007999) Right about the Drain stat, though; I never did stick with Shadowrun, so I'm going off of memory.
>>48008241
>>48007784
Yeah, I'm aware. It seems like it's a *bit* easier, though; M&M can encourage a lot of high level tweaking to squeeze more life out of your PP with arrays. Last time I checked GURPS(lite) it didn't seem to be that complex. This Package thing sounds like it will help, too (though I never did get an answer on which book they're from!)
Then again... >>48000931 >>48001003 >>48003204 >>48009263 Maybe GURPS does have that as well...
I'll just see what my prospective cats think. I may not be able to herd them to GURPS at all.
>>48009506
Sorry, must have missed that! Both of the Pointless GURPS things are from GURPS's monthly e-zine called Pyramid. Pointless Slaying and Looting is from #3/72 Alternate Dungeons, and Pointless Monster Hunting is from #3/83 Alternate GURPS IV. You probably need the series those articles are referencing -- e.g. the Hit and Run ability references a powerup listed in a Dungeon Fantasy book.
As for rolling in a vaccuum, there are plenty of things that modify your roll, including target size/speed/distance, and what they're actively doing to make themselves harder to hit. It's also a matter of perspective in my opinion; if you take the target's chance to defend into account and weigh your options on how to lower them, you have something that's not any different from a regular contest. I don't really get what your issue with it is though, beyond a vague "doesn't feel right."
>>48000837
The way I do it is that they buy ST +3 as normal, then buy ST +5 with the "No Fine Manipulators" limitation to represent they can't use that ST with their arms.
There are always multiple ways to do something in GURPS, you just have to pick the one that feels right to you.
>>48009646
>I don't really get what your issue with it is though, beyond a vague "doesn't feel right."
Does there really need to be more to it than that?
Either way, slowly pouring over things. Although, man, that nap was pretty shitty, and I've got a feeling of "why bother". Oh well, at least one of my nebulous potential player group members does like GURPS, so I'll talk to her when she logs on to the chat. Not sure these Packages will help me as much as I thought, since my thinking was that *I'd* just make he packages.
>>48010034
>Does there really need to be more to it than that?
No, but I was thought you were looking for advice on tweaking the system so it was the most enjoyable for you and your group; can't give solid solutions to vague complaints.
In the end, though, if GURPS ain't yo thang, it ain't yo thang, and there's nothing wrong with that. Here's hoping you guys have fun with whatever system you end up picking. You were asking for info on a system you didn't like and didn't just come in just to shitpost and meme, and for that I thank you.
>>48010547
Apparently I misremembered and said player knows GURPS but doesn't like GURPS.
>"A tailor made system is better than DnD for everything... except GURPS"
>>48006584
>>48006749
Pyramid #3/24 Bio-Tech is what you're looking for.
I'm working on my own Eva hack of GURPS - I've decided that Shock fills the role of 'fake' damage quite well. Just disallow High Pain Threshold, or make it not as effective in the Evangelions.
For a "pilot in a giant flesh robot with your mind", you'll probably want to use Possession with the Parasitic limitation, and give the pilots Puppet (Their Unit) so they don't need to roll to control it (Unless you want to do that).
I'm now building the Evas as Allies (characters) for the pilots to use. They have slightly higher base physical attributes than a normal pilot (who will have very few points to work with), and are probably going to be customized to my player's liking. I'll probably have a Talent fluffed for IQ-based and Per-based skills to represent the high-tech shit in the entry plug, like EO(Sensors) and Observation/Forward Observer and such.
For AT Fields, I'm doing DR as the main ability, with all other advantages (I'm using Imbuements for AT Field application on weapons, Detect for sensing AT Fields, and possibly Neutralize (One Ability, DR) if I feel like modeling the neutralization aspect of the show - personally, I think it's easier to just handwave it) being Alternative Abilities, as per Powers (That is, if you use Damage Resistance on a turn, you can't use anything else, and if you use something else, no Damage Resistance against attacks for you). I'm ignoring Synch Ratio as a mechanic because that shit was just handwaved in the show anyways, as an intensely personal plot arc for one character.
Pyramid #3/92 has a nice Terror alternative, Despair, with a good Fright Check table for Angels. I'm not going to model ego loss, insanity, etc. as that is an intensely personal plot arc for one character.
Also, due to the size of Evas, I'm doing everything except Damage on a Decade scale, including movement. Damage is Century because lol AT Fields, and MBTs in UT do a lot of damage.
>>48011380
Wouldn't synch ratio be the pilot succeeding/failing their Possession roll? If they don't have Puppet and the pilot tries something the eva really doesn't want to do, it can trigger another roll for control (I think), with failure meaning the pilot and eva de-synched.
Or maybe I'm totally off; it has been FOREVER since I've watched NGE. Everything else sounds good though, although if you're using Fear/Despair checks, that'll do all the insanity for you in terms of adding on mental disadvantages.
>>48011479
I think that'd be a good approximation of it, but I don't find that to be terribly fun for everyone. If a player wants to make it something relevant to their character, we can work with that, but I don't want everyone having to deal with "Well, shit. Looks like I'm out this fight, guys." because of a bad roll. It makes Angels much harder to balance for, when you can't even be sure of the number of players on the field. Synch Ratio was also something that wasn't really relevant on a fight to fight basis - it only mattered for one character who was having serious issues with not being 'the best'.
>If you lose or tie, you are mentally stunned for 1d seconds. In addition, you may never attempt to possess that subject again – he is “immune” to you.
You can homebrew it, sure, but... I'd rather just ignore it.
>>48007379
I'm >>48011380
I kind of hit the character limit last post. I'll elaborate here: Replicating/emulating systems from AdEva (v2.5, vB, or v3) is not desirable. Dark Heresy does erosion of sanity poorly, and GURPS does as well (Steal ideas from the Fright Table, though!). What you want is a handwaved system where you give people Quirks to represent subtle fractures in their sanity (Remember, most people don't have full-blown disadvantages - they have them at CR15, or a quirk-level version of them, such as 'Bad Temper when insulted'.)
Same with Synch Ratio - I've played around with the idea of giving the AT Field powers Fickle (You make an unmodified reaction roll to use them, SR would be your reaction bonus/penalty), but I'm not sure I want to go that route. Running an Evangelion game is going to require a lot of GM intervention for where rules don't cover and won't cover.
If you want to get a good idea of how to handle social interaction in GURPS, I suggest reading the full Social Engineering line (Books and pyramids). There's even Back to School, if you really feel like modelling studies in high school.
>>48011575
I think removal of immunity is Cosmic +50%, but I understand where you're coming from; what makes for good television does not necessarily make for good gaming.
>>48011380
I only grasped a fraction of that.
Also, you keep saying "intensely personal plot arc for one character", but even Asuka and Rei had to deal with Sync (and Asuka gets so over-synced in EoE that she dies from it), and after Arael Asuka becomes comatose and tries to commit suicide, so even the insanity wasn't just Shinji.
>>48011575
>"Well, shit. Looks like I'm out this fight, guys." because of a bad roll.
Like I said, I barely understand these systems terms, but wouldn't it be more fitting to treat that as going Berserk? You could also only roll those "Possession" rolls when something meaningful happens, like keeping your Eva from going Berserk after a Contact or something.
Also, I don't necessarily want to perfectly replicate AdEva. After all, if it didn't have those problems, I wouldn't be shopping for systems.
>>48011631
Honestly, that's where AdEva shined for me. The subtle changes to the way NERV works and what the default assumptions are, like how your NERV might not be the *only* one.
Although v3 apparently says pilots are useless outside their Evas.
>>48011894
Fucking /lgbt/. Accidentally clicked on it and lost what I wrote.
>I only grasped a fraction of that.
Come back to it later, after you grok the system, or I could rant for twenty posts explaining everything, or we could swap contact info and sperg in private.
>Synch Ratio as personal plot arcs, EoE
I didn't like EoE, and found it an unnecessary addition to the show. That'll color my personal beliefs and such, so I figure it's a fair warning. Talking strictly from the show, this is what I took away:
>Rei doesn't really deal with it beyond obligatory synch testing. Her player found other things interesting, and didn't make this a plot point. Therefore, manufactured.
>Asuka makes piloting a central pillar of her identity and when Shinji is better at it than her, she starts to take a nosedive, culminating with an inability to pilot after Arael. Her player found low SR interesting, and made it a plot point. Therefore, disgraced ace.
>Shinji is really good at piloting from high SR, but doesn't want to (and only does it to make people happy). His player found high SR interesting, and made it a plot point. Therefore, berserk baby.
That's massively oversimplifying things for the sake of character count, but that's how I see it. The GM obliged with personally tailored to the character handwaves.
>Possession failure treated as Berserk, roll when meaningful
I think v3 did something right here with Berserk just being a win-at-a-heavy-cost button. Personally speaking, I'm not terribly interested in modeling Berserk at all, and just keeping it a narrative, pyrrhic victory. Meaningful events would be good places to ask the players whether or not they want to Berserk, though.
Sorry if I come off as condescending or an ass or something. I have that problem with text communications. I'm still in the process of re-watching NGE, so my memory is spotty (supplemented with EvaGeeks episode synopsis) and may contribute to what I think of NGE as.
>>48012287
>I could rant for twenty posts explaining everything
I mean, I sort of consider myself a "guest" of the thread, but it's not like anything else has been going on since I first started asking questions (though since my group doesn't seem to be fond of GURPS, I may not be using it in the end; still gonna look through it again, I did download it after all).
>I think v3 did something right here with Berserk just being a win-at-a-heavy-cost button.
With how it was in 2.5 ("force yourself to fuck things up") I was thinking it would be better if the controlled berserk were handled like a Werewolf going into Gauru. You get bigger and stronger, but also the longer you keep it up the more chance you're going to flip your shit and start destroying things, possibly even the things you were supposed to protect.
Also, I'm doing the same. Reichu is insightful, but pedantic. Pronouncing it "nairf" isn't really meaningful when even if that is how it's pronounced in German, it would be pronounced "nerve" by anyone who works in the building.
>>48006490
>First off, Chargen really *does* take a lot of time and effort, and has a lot of moving parts to keep track of
>GM Makes Templates/Lenses that fit his campaign. In my first GURPS Campaign I'll be including many lenses, that the players will be mixing and matching for much quicker character building. I got the idea from Rune Quest and from RoleMaster. Here are the categories of templates the PCs will be choosing from (I'm still building the templates that will be available).
Race, Environment, Culture, Social Class, Training Package.
I have (at this point) only built races. I may have the players grab multiples of the others and allow the same one twice if applicable.
They will then have a *small* pool of freebie points to spend wherever.
Chargen should be fairly quick once I'm done, and still decently flexible.
>The skills list is huge, and making a pre-determined list of skills feels like it would lead to awkward situations when a skill you didn't allow seems more fitting (though that seems to be complained about in some of the posts here)
I have a similar issue, the skill list is fuckhuge, and have been considering a much smaller, concise list. Let me know if you cone up with a good solution and how it works out.
>Magic=Fatigue is dumb and bothers me. It's so limiting. You get Muscle Wizards.
GURPS Thaomatology for custom magic systems. RPM being the main one I like.
>Everything outside of combat feels bland and samey, and while combat is multiple rolls with action time, everything else is just one single roll. This is a really old design thing that I'm surprised has stuck around, but a lot of newer systems have subsystems to make things like investigation or social interaction or crafting feel interesting in their own right. Maybe this isn't a problem and I just didn't read the right sourcebook.
>Everything run in GURPS feels like GURPS.
>>48007263
>Over on the sjgames forums, a very cool dude is about halfway through converting all the spells from the Magic book to RPM.
It's also available as a XSLX in the trove.
>let me just throw up my own collection of RPM stuff that I've gathered.
Ooh. Thanks!
>>48009263
You bet.
>>48009506
>This Package thing sounds like it will help, too (though I never did get an answer on which book they're from!)
They're in several books. Some in basic, some in dungeon fantasy, some in fantasy, some in monster hunters, and then there are several that are in the "Pointless" series, which people have described to you, and I believe those are in issues of Pyramid.
Affliction 1(Advantage, Some Dumb Perk(Costs Fatigue, 20, -80%), +10%)[11]
Is this a legal (but stupid) way to make a cheap Fatigue attack?
>>48013284
Doesn't Fatigue Attack cost 10/level, not give a resistance roll, and deal 1d damage? Seems cheaper and more effective.
>>48006490
>● First off, Chargen really *does* take a lot of time and effort, and has a lot of moving parts to keep track of
Character generation is /supposed/ to. You front load all the work so it doesn't have to be done at the table. It's a big part of what makes such a potentially complex game move quickly in actual play.
>● The skills list is huge, and making a pre-determined list of skills feels like it would lead to awkward situations when a skill you didn't allow seems more fitting
I've never actually seen this as a problem. The one time it has come up with my group the response was "Oh. Yeah. That does seem to fit. Woops. Go ahead and take it."
>● Combat is uninteractive, as both parties are rolling their Attack or Defense against their own values
Combat is very interactive IME. Sure you're using your own skill but when was the last time you swung a baseball bat using a pro player's skill? Or shot a gun using the ability of the guy in the lane next to you? The biggest problem I've seen here is players not describing their action and GMs not describing the outcome. Then it just turns into a series of Attack->Defend. Which is BORING.
>● Magic=Fatigue is dumb and bothers me. It's so limiting. You get Muscle Wizards.
So change it. Or use powers. Or RPM. Hell, I haven't even looked at the Magic book since Sorcery came out and I used to love the old Magic system.
>● Everything outside of combat feels bland and samey
>● Everything run in GURPS feels like GURPS.
Are you sure you're doing roleplay and not rollplay? The mechanics are just a framework to hang the narrative on the games I've been in.
Hiya folks, newbie GM here.
Wondering if you can give me any tips to be a great GM. We have a game coming up and I've been helping everyone make their characters. Should I be lenient on what they want to be or make them fit in the setting? Or should I make the setting around the characters?
>>48014495
>Sure you're using your own skill but when was the last time you swung a baseball bat using a pro player's skill? Or shot a gun using the ability of the guy in the lane next to you?
I meant the way that the attacker rolls and the defender rolls, and neither of their rolls are related to each other. Think how D&D requires you to hit a DC for Defense and WoD subtracts the opponent's Resistance from your dice pool. I think Shadowrun wants you to get X hits. It's not that you'd be using the skill of a pro player or the gun next to you, it's that hitting a person is harder than hitting a barn.
>Are you sure you're doing roleplay and not rollplay? The mechanics are just a framework to hang the narrative on the games I've been in.
I feel like that's disingenuous. Yes, the mechanics are a framework, but different mechanics feel very different. I mentioned above how each of the WoD gamelines feel very different from each other, and D&D and Shadowrun feel very different. No, I'm not "Rollplaying". It's just that there's very different gamefeel.
>>48014521
First, read How to Be a GURPS GM. It's in the OP (or should be at least, I haven't checked recently).
Don't let them make things that just don't fit unless you can work it in without killing the game for everyone else. If the game is a Victorian-era detectives setting and That Guy wants to make a retired samurai who stays at home and contemplate Shinto when not composing poetry probably isn't going to work. Likewise, the Roman legion game where That Guy makes a SEAL team member...
Of course, GURPS /can/ do those things just fine. Your job is to weed out what is /possible/ from what fits and moves the game along in a way that works for the whole group.
Making the setting around the players is exactly what the Infinite Worlds setting is all about so if that appeals to you, take a look there.
The biggest hitch to GURPS is when those new to it realize you can do /anything/ so they feel you /should allow everything/. That's a recipe for disaster most of the time.
>>48014521
There is How to be a GURPS GM that answers many potential questions.
Minor adjustments are fine. Trying to fit speshul snowflake is waste of time.
>>48014730
Are you (or were you) using 3rd edition or 4th edition?
GURPS does what you're after with modifiers. A barn is bigger so you get a bonus. A skilled attacker does tricky and difficult to counter moves which give his opponent a penalty to defend (and takes a penalty himself).
I would take umbrage at your use of disingenuous but for the fact that I had to ask such a basic question. Remember that I don't know you nor your background beyond what I could infer from a few posts. I have never seen you nor your groups play. I've seen groups who've been playing for 25+ years who are hack and slash rollplayers. It works for them and there's nothing wrong with it but the answer changes based on that view.
That said, yes. Of course GURPS feels like GURPS. And GURPS is, by design, largely unified in its mechanics in order to lend a familiar framework rather than be made up of dozens of mini-games (which is not to say that's what the other games you're referencing have done).
If you don't like the mechanics of GURPS or the feel of it, don't play it. Or, better yet, if possible, add or tweak the bits you don't like (if you feel so inclined). The goal of GURPS is a unified and consistent rules base that can be used for almost anything. The different feel comes from the story being told around that framework. How well the accomplished that is for you to judge. To me Dungeon Fantasy feels remarkably different from The Madness Dossier but your mileage may vary.
>>48015116
>Are you (or were you) using 3rd edition or 4th edition?
I thought it was 4th, but it seems it might have been 3rd. This would have been about 2006, 2007.
>That said, yes. Of course GURPS feels like GURPS. And GURPS is, by design, largely unified in its mechanics in order to lend a familiar framework rather than be made up of dozens of mini-games (which is not to say that's what the other games you're referencing have done).
Well, yes, but what I mean is that a lot of other games can feel very different when doing different things. From my admittedly sketchy memories, exploring a haunted house, doing a dungeon crawl, and surviving zombies all felt like the same game. Mage feels very different from Werewolf feels very different from Changeling, despite all using the same core system
>your mileage may vary
I'll admit I don't have much mileage. It's one of the reasons I'm willing to give it a second look (although like I said it seems my group may not take to it).
>>48014730
Deceptive Attacks end up working very similar to having a penalty to hit a more skilled opponent, but requires you to be able to estimate how skilled your opponent is instead of being baked in to the difficulty. These examples completely ignore Feints, Hit Locations, Retreating etc.
Take a standard DX10 human with no combat skills. They have a Dodge of 9, which is a 37.5% chance to avoid damage. You can attack with a higher skill level because you don't have to take a penalty from using Deceptive Attack, because they already have a >60% chance to fail to defend.
Now, take someone with Parry 14. That's a 90% chance to defend, meaning that even if you successfully hit, they are almost certain to successfully defend. This means that you need to take penalties from Deceptive Attack to lower their Parry to something more reasonable. For them to have the same odds of defending as above, you need to inflict a -5 to their Parry, meaning you would take -10 to your combat skill, which isn't so different from having to hit a higher number or whatever in D&D.
>>48016134
>Take a standard DX10 human with no combat skills. They have a Dodge of 9,
Dodge = Basic Speed + 3
Basic Speed = HT + DX / 4
So unless your basic dood has DX 10 HT 14, he's rocking Speed 5 and has dodge 8, not dodge 9.
Or you are thinking of someone with Combat Reflexes (A 15 point advantage).
>>48016868
Or he made a typo, or he didn't actually work out the math completely. Calm your tits.
>>48016939
>Calm your tits.
Is it some kind of provocation?
Rolled 6, 3, 6 = 15 (3d6)
>>48016939
>>48017120
>Rolling to calm Tits
>>48017198
Considering how small her tits are, she probably failed.
>>48016134
>>48016868
His point isn't wrong, though in general what happens is when your skill level passes 14 you can take penalties that bring it down to 14 without any problem.
So if you've got Kick at SL 16 you can routinely target an arm or make it deceptive for -1 to defense without losing anything but a very small increase to your chance to succeeded. You can also easily eat -2 from Darkness, Bad Footing or other condensations.
Taking someone that is already sort of bad at defense from 10 to 9 is a pretty big advantage, and can be worth it, though a gamble, if it takes you from 14 to 12 SL
As ever, you also have to asses their armor. If they are well protected you might be better off aiming around their armor then using a deceptive attack.
>>48017198
>Calming Tits: FAILED
>>48017256
>Small
She's pretty big up top. Big cup size, tiny band size.
But they look small because she's all-over small.
>>48017198
>>48017529
>>48017619
who's this benis burglar?
>>48017256
Is it easier or harder to calm larger tits?
Am I going to have to look up the rules in GURPS: BREAST?
It hasn't been updated for 4th edition and you need to use advanced math to calculate the exact volume, area and density of breast and the perkiness coefficient.
>>48017768
Lilly Gardner. She's a model and cute as a button.
>>48015211
World of Darkness games tend to feel very different in part because every game line has different systems. While basic task resolution is relatively uniform a mage's powers work -nothing- like a werewolf's, and a werewolf's work nothing like a vampire's.
They also all work in a different setting. A vampire faces foes that a werewolf won't, where as despite in theory threatening everyone if you aren't playing Werewolf you will never see a possessed person or host filled with rats.
>>48016868
You're 100% correct, I didn't even check the math and incorrectly remembered it came out to 6 because I am retarded. Still, I think I mostly got the idea across, right? That Deceptive Attack sort of works out as analogous to increasing DCs in D&D or contests in other systems, and that the rolls for attack/defence don't necessarily exist in a vacuum because the foe's ability to defend affects which tactics you have to use to overcome those defences.
Well fa/tg/uys I finally did it. I made a spreadsheet for pumping out powerarmor/battlesuits using 3e Mecha, partially because I wanted to, partially to see if I could, and partially because I didn't want to wrestle with getting the old pirated GVB program for windows to work on my linux-running potato.
I'm going to try and add it to the mega collection after posting this; I've saved it as an excel document, so it should work for most comps, but again, I'm running linux on a potato, and I used LibreOffice so I'm not sure if some formulas were lost in the Save As. I also haven't super stress tested it; feel free to do so!
A short readme:
-Everything's TL9 because I would have quadrupled my workload adding options for other TLs. Change the values if you want higher-TL battlesuits.
-Yellow/goldenrod boxes are ones you can edit -- some are textboxes, other are dropdown menus.
-Green/red boxes are checks. If they're green, you're running within acceptable parameters; if they're red, you dun fucked up son.
-I skipped some steps. Thrusters looked like a huge fucking pain, so they're out. Built-in weapons were just something I didn't feel like doing; I may add them later, or some other enterprising/autistic Anon can pick up the mantle and add it themselves. ECM is covered in 4e Ultra-Tech, as are "defensive surface features" like chameleon surfacing and infrared cloaking; use those instead.
-Setting the pilot weight to 220 gives us a range of 175 to 220 lb., covering most "general purpose"/mass produced suits. Edit the Pilot Weight box for a custom fit.
-I only covered Energy Banks rather than the more complex Power Plants.
-I shoved all comsuites, sensors, energy banks, and battlesuit extras into the torso.
You still need 3e Mecha to make sense of this!
And remember /tg/, don't thank me, thank my college for keeping on english tutors though the summer semester, allowing me to get paid to work on this.
>>48018901
Alright, two things
1) I don't seem to have Write access, even with the provided login information. Did someone change that? I remember we started finding weird/suspicous files in the mega no one rememberred adding.
2) I realized I never included a cell that sums the suit's cost for you, my bad.
>>48018370
Yeah, what you said made sense. In a way GURPS is more interactive. It's best to guess at their defensive and armor levels from what you can see to plan your attacks.
>>48019820
>Playing a monster hunter
>Spend 16 points on Very Handsome
The "Supernatural" style of monster hunting.
>>48019820
That is just like how I picture Darius from Rebirth. Pretty boy with a sword andone arm.
>>48019058
>>>48018901
>Alright, two things
>1) I don't seem to have Write access, even with the provided login information. Did someone change that?
I can't check it right now to see if it's just you, am on my phone.
>I remember we started finding weird/suspicious files in the mega no one remembered adding.
What files were those?
I recently added a bunch of stuff. Supposedly there were a ton of missing 3e books, so I uploaded my collection which included most of the list of supposedly missing books.
I also started adding fan resources in the appropriate section, after talking to GURPS general about doing so.
What were the suspicious files?
>>48020674
16 points out of 400, that'll just help dealing with the civilians.
>>48017888
Actually, a lot of games do have things like Vampires going up against the Hosts, and possession is so 'average' that it's in the corebook now and even vampires have a big bad enemy that can possess. It's the different systems that I'd mostly been talking about, though. I mean, from the sound of it, ER is really just the same as FP, no matter what stat its keyed to. GURPS changes up it's system much less for the subsystems and genres.
But then again I haven't done anything with it again. It's only been like 14 hours, and I spent most of that asleep. I still doubt GURPS will feel different across different ways of doing things, but group willing I'm at least still going to try. (I don't keep replying to these as a defensive sort of thing, just trying to explain myself).
>>48019820
>>48020674
That is quite the dreamboat there.
Is it worthwhile to create race-like and class-like templates for your players in order to speed character creation along and keep min-maxing shenanigans to a minimum, or does that defeat the purpose of using GURPS?
>>48022518
They work just fine if you give players some degree of customization. Look at After The End templates - the "core" of each template is pretty small and on top of it you make several choices, adjusting template to your needs while still keeping it more simple than pure point buy.
>>48022518
You are actually recommended to use templates for races for many different reasons. One is to avoid abuse and another is that as the GM it is your say. Players can modify these as per usual during character creation. It isn't uncommon to hear storied like "A dragon that can't breathe fire" so a dragon without firebreath is a suitable Disadvantage.
For classes it is overall good to give players an idea on what is best. Experienced players can be allowed to make their own from scratch. Beginners should use templates and be given only some points to add onto them.
>>48022518
Race templates can be vital, as it gives you a way to say 'no exotic/supernatural advantages unless your race comes with it.'
Work with your players to create races for the game. This lets them build sets of powers balanced by disadvantages they want, but also means they end up in a good for the goose, good for the gander sort of thing.. If they make a race of savage berserkers with regeneration and tough skin, well, they get to fight those.
>>48021084
Something about a music folder, I believe; I downloaded all my GURPS shit years ago, so I don't really pay much attention to the mega.
>>48023247
And I tried again, still don't seem to have write access.
Play of the game last night:
Dungeon fantasy samurai dived for cover to dodge an as-sharak breath attack, then he got attacked six times by a six armed peshkali, dodging and parrying some hits, taking others, reducing him to 2 hp. He did an acrobatic stand for his step, all out attack, aim for vitals (forgot it didn't have vitals, oh well) as deceptive as possible, and rolled a 3, killing it in one hit.
>>47973965
So I'm starting up a "realistic medieval" (it's just super low fantasy, world building isn't 100% realistic)
Any suggestions for books besides basic set and low tech? Anything else that would add something interesting/useful to it?
>>48025670
Martial arts (fighting), boardrooms and curia (kingdom building), and the low tech companions (good mechanics for a lot of stuff glossed over in low tech.)
>>48025455
Hot damn anon.
>>48024193
I had that same problem a while ago.
I noticed that if you use the link in the pdf it's read only. You need to just sign in to the main mega page using the credentials.
Try that.
First time GURPS game master here, I've GMd for lots of other systems and played gurps as a player once like forever ago.
I came to ask what are some really good campaigns you guys remember playing, or good ones for new players to the game.
>>48025455
Fucking sweet; I think you can flub the vitals ruling away just fine man. That sounded like it was awesome in play.
>>48028027
Adapting established systems that haven't got a good rpg base, but the lore is deep.
Like Fallout
My favorite campaign there was centred around cyborg clones, memory erasure and a huge twist for the players partway through the campaign. The reveal happened naturally in play, and it was the most fun I'd had in years.
Set in New Orleans, over the big black Missisipp, in the deep south. Gator death claws, bayou ghoulies, xenophobic slavers, all sorts of deep south flavor.
Season it with splinter enclave, outcast Brotherhood, and Vault-Tec secret headquarters and you got a recipe for plot on a stick.
>>48028323
That sounds amazing, but what rule supplements would you suggest to get for that?
>>48028383
I used High tech for most of the gun porn
I added power armor with basic set suits with mild tweaking
Mostly it was hitting the sweet spot between wildcard skills and broad talents to get the skill gamefeel right
99% was basic set though. The occasional modifier from powers.
The twist through? Each of the players were synths. They didnt know it until one of them took a blast in the chest from a plasma rifle, and his skin melted off his torso-chassis.
Something like 300 points in racial template revealed after a failed dodge. It was awesome. They went from meek scavengers to raging terminators. They laid waste to anything with insufficient firepower
>>48028451
That seems like an amazing twist, so you gave them 300 more points after the reveal or you bumped them up to the 300 template?
>>48028490
essentially they had it the whole time, and none of them knew. Wiped memories, waking up in a vault with implanted false impressions of being there for their entire lives. None of them actually questioned it, and I was sweating bullets all of the first few sessions.
They ventured into 'civilization' of New Orleans proper, random roll had them bump into a protectron behind a superdupermart, Shootout ensues, they have no chance, it barges in and fires off a green bolt, dude flubs his dodge and eats it.
and then finds out hes wearing Hardened DR 50 or so. Barely scratches the surface after melting off his skin. His 'survival protocols' kick in, I hand him his updated sheet, and he proceeds to climb the fucking thing, plunge his hand into the core, and rip out it's nuclear heart.
They were experimental backup bodies built by the military 'for the higher ups' but really secreted away for Vault Tec/Enclave precursor types, and so they have bodies made of superdense alloys, powered by nuclear fire, and capable of passing as 99% human. (I wrote this all pre-fallouot 4, and most of it still fits in the new lore. Most.)
>>48028323
>>48028451
>>48028563
Mind, I wrote the entire campaign plot with the idea "How do I challenge players in non-combat ways?"
My solution was to make them combat monstrosities, and then have them only need to deal with it at their prerogative.
>>48025859
>>48028234
This is the official recap.
http://pseudoboo.blogspot.com/2016/06/session-capture-bad-company-session-4.html
>>48028824
Oh WOW, you're THAT gm.
I remember your first aar's
Cool to see your campaign flourishing
So, I'm looking to put a twist on rpm, and am unsure how to modify the cost to fairly accommodate it.
>Players either invent, or learn their spells from books.
>Improvised spells (regular rpm without a grimoire) has a penalty (-5?), And is hazardous, with potential unwanted side effects.
The rest of rpm I'm pretty happy with.
How would you adjust the cost of magery/adept/spell skills based on that change?
>>46446554
>The most recent issue of the GURPS ezine actually has a very not!Dark Souls setting
>04/03/16
Does somebody know the name of this Pyramid volume?
>>48031166
I think he means Haven and Hells from alternate dungeons II
>>48031166
We had a bit of discussion about it a while back - namely that it'd go really well with a lightly altered version of "eating monster essence" thing at the end of this.
>>48029248
Mr. Tapioca just quit because he had problems with Xelin. :c kinda sucks because they are both the most interesting players.
>>48031799
Rage quit?
Or "we've tried resolving differences and it's just easier for everyone if I bow out now"?
>>48032051
The latter, thankfully. I didn't realize there was a problem at the time, but in hindsight, Xelin's player did try to tell him how to play a bunch of times, so that could be what he was upset about.
