Why is cyberpunk so dead in everything but tabletop?
>>47971907
We are getting a game, man
>>47971907
It's pretty dead in tabletop too. The only thing keeping it alive is Shadowrun, and that thing is fucking gay.
>>47971907
It's no longer exotic. We arrived on the future man. It's boring. And tech went with the boring iPod aesthetic. Clunky 80s esque punk culture is dead.
Punk culture is dead outside of steampunk and that's more of a etsy thing.
>>47971907
Because the world is actually turning into a high tech dystopia. It's a slow process, but it's happening. Give it time.
>>47971990
>>47971941
This. We've gone over this a million fucking times are you 12 and just getting online? It's not new, it's not thought provoking as regular people can stumble upon the "interesting" topics that come up in cyberpunk that made it different from everything else.
>>47971920
It's been four years, man
>>47971907
The surface don't fit current aesthetics, and the plot points have already subdued by something much larger than fiction.
>>47971907
Cyberpunk dystopia is only fun if you don't have to live in it.
t. eastern european
Gibson stopped writing it because it stopped being fiction. We scoffed at the time, but he was right.
>>47971990
>playing a "modern setting" campaign
>it's actually in the 90s/early 2000s because the GM doesn't want every character to have a smart phone that can trivialise most noncombat encounters
>>47972148
You can't run a modern horror game without fucking magically turning off cell phones or just having arbitrary monsters that don't line up with anything they can find online in which case the players will bitch at you.
>>47972148
>not having their enemies track them via the networked GPS receiver, video camera and audio recorder they're each carrying
>not encouraging the players to go low tech through sheer paranoia
Your GM has no imagination.
>>47972186
I'm not so sure of that. Sure you could google werewolf weaknesses, but if you're being chased by one you're probably going to be fucked anyway.
Then again, a monster that fucks with tech would be pretty interesting. Like a monster that replaces on screen text with something spooky.
>>47972231
That's getting into cringe territory. I think a plain vanilla stalker that knows how to hack is much scarier. >>47972218
>Cyberpunk is dead
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Scorpion_(TV_series)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/CSI:_Cyber
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Person_of_Interest_(TV_series)
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Mr._Robot_(TV_series)
I don't even watch TV. I'm sure there are more on.
The aesthetic got better, and no one cares for bulky cyberware. That's about it. Hell, even the Marvel movies have had cyberpunk inspiration, especially Winter Soldier (which even had cyberware!) Basically, >>47971990 >>47971941 >>47972045 >>47972147 are all right. They're no longer set in the future because we no longer need to set them in the future (although much of the technology showcased in those is just as unrealistic. I mean, >>47972186 >>47972148 must have much better service than I've ever seen)
>>47972218
>>47972231
>>47972186
Honestly even my friends and family who do have high tech phones wouldn't get much use out of them in a horror movie situation. At best you could call for help, but in most of those cases you can just LEAVE the area in the first place.
>>47971907
Have you been watching, like, any movies at all?
It lost its edge.
It's been neutered and reduced to a vague array of pop culture references used to advertise all sorts of shitty high-tech products. It's being exploited to make us buy the very things it tried to warn us about.
Cyberpunk used to be full of scary and outlandish things and that's what made it appealing and relevant. Now that those things are starting to happen, they're either fucking boring, or scary but in a dreadful, threatening way. In a way that's too real to deal with and makes the fiction seem like cheap entertainment by comparison.
As a result, nobody takes it seriously anymore. We see the writings on the wall as we dive deeper into technological alienation, but we don't pay attention anymore because it's already too late to do anything about it, and we prefer reveling in the glamor of self-destruction than fighting back to make sure that cyberpunk remains fiction.
Just look at the techwear/cyberpunk threads on /fa/: a bunch of college kids buying overpriced parkas and convincing each other that they're rebels just like in the chinese cartoons: They're playing with the corpse of cyberpunk, gnawing on its bones and getting infected by the very diseases it warned us about and which killed it.
You wanna bring cyberpunk back?
Make it fucking horrific and brutal again. Make it edgy as hell. Make people fear the future but make them ready to fight it.
>>47972148
>it's actually in the 90s/early 2000s because the GM doesn't want every character to have a smart phone that can trivialise most noncombat encounters
That's because the DM doesn't use the time they are all on their smartphone to attack them from the shadows.
If you enjoy cyberpunk for 80s asthetics you are no better than steamfags famalam.
Crime rates peaked and crashed in the late 20th century and are now heading slowly but surely downwards. Cyberpunk (and punk genres in general, like WoD) was most popular as society was heading toward the peak of this trend, when it seemed like crime would continue spiralling out of control, which gave us visions of the future like Robocop and Escape from New York. The idea of ever-increasing social decay going hand-in-hand with scientific progress, leading to a technologically advanced but anarchic, crime-ridden dystopia has become less relevant as society has settled into a more boring and safer future. In literary circles, this has caused cyberpunk to give way to "post-cyberpunk", which follows a similar time-frame and technologies but is more optimistic and less focused on the underclasses.
>>47972289
>not running a vaporwave A E S T H E T I C campaign
>>47971907
Or, like have you been watching music videos? The cyberpunk aesthetic is permeating mainstream culture like woah.
>>47972333
"post-cyberpunk" is just regular sci-fi that's not full-blown space opera. It's not a real thing.
>>47971941
haha, just because the poseurs don't wear studded jean jackets anymore doesn't mean punk is dead, bro.
>>47972280
>As a result, nobody takes it seriously anymore. We see the writings on the wall as we dive deeper into technological alienation, but we don't pay attention anymore because it's already too late to do anything about it,
This. We already live in cyberpunk. Its too late.
>>47972352
No, the cyberpunk aesthetic is dead and buried. Some cyberpunk THEMES and ELEMENTS are permeating mainstream culture (usually after being neutered), but cyberpunk fiction itself has been completely fucked over by mainstream aesthetics in the 2000s.
>>47972280
>wanna bring cyberpunk back?
>Make it fucking horrific and brutal again. Make it edgy as hell. Make people fear the future but make them ready to fight it.
Nah dude.
Cyberpunk wasn't ultraviolent and nihilistic; the 80's were about ultraviolent and nihilism and that leaked into cyberpunk fiction written back then, just like curvy iPhone technology shit leaks into scifi stuff written now.
The entire decade of the 1980's was affiliated with this sense of high-octane hopelessness; everything was materialistic, crime was constantly on the rise, life was cheap, the economy grew in leaps and bounds but left tons of people behind and unable to cope and thus dropped many below the poverty line, America was full of soldiers who had come back from Vietnam with horror stories about what they did for their country, and the President was an ex-actor who basically encouraged all these things and seemed determined to get the world destroyed in by playing nuclear chicken with the USSR and sending crazy black ops wetwork shit into third world countries they were involved in to destabilize them further.
This nihilistic Zeitgeist affected Japanese stuff to an even greater degree where not only was everyone aware that materialism was more important then your individual life, the entire COUNTRY made it perfectly clear that this was the case as early as high school and your usefulness in society was directly tied to how productive a worker you were.
Add to that the fact that the nukes would hit Japan first (thanks to our bases there), their existing cultural history with them, and the rise of the OVA market which helped bypass otherwise extremely strict network censorship laws and you have a recipe for telling stories about alienation, war, people being warped into machines, and treated like garbage.
Most famous cyberpunk authors have books that aren't particularly violent at all, especially compared to other novels such as horror ones written at the time.
>>47971907
Yes, like all good things.
>>47972385
mainstream culture always dulls the rough edges that come out of countercultural memes.
I disagree. Maybe you imagined something different, but Rihanna's last couple videos have been cyberpunk as fuck.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wfN4PVaOU5Q
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kOkQ4T5WO9E
>>47972438
This desu.
The reason old cyberpunk looks so dated is because it IS dated and was relevant to the 1980's when it was made but now looks silly and trite when compared to how things ended up changing or not happening entirely.
So that guy doesn't want cyberpunk back, he wants the 1980's back. Which I'd argue he's kind of getting anyway these days, especially if Trump wins the election; we'll even have a conservative celebrity as President again!
>>47972438
Dude you did nothing to prove me that cyberpunk wasn't ultraviolent and nihilistic.
On the contrary you just explained me why it WAS ultraviolent and nihilistic as a result of the time it was made in.
Regardless, cyberpunk is at its best and at its most relevant when it's horrific, edgy and ultraviolent.
>>47972450
I'm not giving that slut any views.
>>47972493
"the guy" wants good cyberpunk back. Which happens to be imbued with 80s edginess. edgeless cyberpunk is just shitty cyberpunk regardless of the decade it was made in.
>>47972495
In that case, yes.
It was that way back in the 1980's.
Unfortunately literally nothing you or anyone else can do can turn back time to the 80's or bring back the exact same cultural situations that led to it being a thing.
By sticking to those aspects of when you thought it was best, it WILL eventually die off completely as a genre when literally everyone who remembers what the decade was like dies of old age or gets too old for their rememberences and opinions to be relevant to culture.
Have fun with that!
>>47972280
We are not fundamentally living in cyberpunk by any means. Yeah, there's dat computer tech and even smartphones that would have given Gibson wet dreams at the time, but the sweeping idea behind cyberpunk originally is the rise of a new collectivism based on faceless corporations, and its fight with old world family businesses, lone billionaires, the fragmented remains of society organized in dozens upon dozens of countercultures and scum from the gutter.
Didn't VA-11 Hall-A come out last week? I mean it's short as hell but I kinda like it.
>>47972539
So what are you suggesting?
That instead we should keep producing lame, edgeless "cyberpunk" that only serves to advertise dumb shit to the people who remember a time when it was more than that?
Cause I don't think there's a middle ground.
>>47972516
He's not getting it back. Ever.
80's and early 90's edgy cyberpunk was popular because it seemed socially relevant at the time and so expressed itself frequently through pop culture.
While there's some weird social similarities between then and now, they aren't significant enough ones to say a genre that's spent the last thirty years stuck in the past will get popular again.
Right now he's complaining that gravity makes it hard to fly; we all KNOW already, why whine about it? Chances are OP isn't even old enough to have been around when cyberpunk WAS socially relevant enough to show up everywhere.
>>47972548
How is it cyberpunk again?
To me it looks a lot more like typical 50s scifi.
>>47971907
as >>47972333 stated, the 80s vision of the future turned out to be wrong.
>>47972516
Awww, babboo doesn't like sexy Barbados singers? Grow up, kid. Christian sexual mores and cyberpunk? Really? How do you deal with the dissonance in your head?
>>47972565
Your opinion is subjective and will die when you do, and nobody will care that you ever held it in the first place.
Think on this and realize that your statements about the "definitive" best era of a type of genre are as temporary as your individual lifespan and about as relevant as whatever mark you personally as a single can manage to make on society as a whole.I'm a huge fan of classic cyberpunk too mind you, but I also know when my opinion is subjective and not to start threads whining about the good old days of a genre that was starting to wane in public popularity almost before I was born.
>>47972543
We are basically living in a Cyberpunk world, where the Punk never got off the ground. There are no meaningful countercultures, only the Mainstream and Corporations.
>>47972333
All of the violent crime was outsourced to Mexico, too. Cyberpunk just isn't happening in Seattle.
>>47972580
"the guy" is me. OP is another dude.
Don't tell me there aren't tons people who are pissed with the current state of things, and that they wouldn't enjoy fiction that reflects their anger and fear.
>>47972616
In a cyberpunk world, the punks are getting ground into the dirt and the countercultures never get on the TV except as ridiculous caricatures, just like today.
>>47972616
But the japanese zaibatsus stalled and the corporate world never took up raising their own employees and controlling their lives.
If anything, we are living is the most individualistic time period ever.
>>47972604
I'm calling her a slut because it's a stronger insult than "bad singer", don't get butthurt because your "wow so cyberpunk so cool" waifu isn't getting two more views from a random anon.
>>47972615
My opinion is subjective but my statements are true.
Fuck right off with your aloof and cynical posturing, you aren't wiser than anyone else just because you sound calmer.
Anti-authoritarianism is something that modern culture is doing its level best to stamp out as best it can. You can even see it in this thread -- "edginess was for the 80s even though it's so much worse now."
Cyberpunk is a hypothetical NOW where people don't just bitch about this stuff on the internet, they pick up a gun and a laptop and do something about it.
DX: Human Revolution was pretty successfull and another title of the series is coming.
Also Cyberpunk 2077
So it's not entirely dead in Vidya. Not particularly big, but in no way dead
>>47971907
Because it became real.
Actually, cyberpunk novels are still a thing. They've changed a little, going with the times as new trends have come and the net has become more mainstream than we expected, but it's all still there. Ready Player One was pretty cyberpunk.
There's also a lot of post-cyberpunk that is pretty much just cyberpunk but viewed from within the system instead of without.
>>47972635
Oh no, they do! Always, in every era.
It's just those fears and angers are different and not the ones held in the 1980's anymore; the advancement of technology is now no longer recognizably linked to spiraling crime rates (it advanced faster in the 90's then it ever did in the 80's and crime PLUMMETED that decade), so instead you get the fear and the anger without the cool technological shit.
The fears are less about "corporate consumerism is crushing me!" and "the spiraling crime rate will kill us all even as we advanced technologically at a rate that outstrips our morals!" and are instead about "globalism is crushing my personal long-held ideas of my culture and the world!" and "the economic gap even in areas that have nothing to do with major corporations is widening!" The economic gap is the strongest similarity, but rather then rebel against consumerism (which everyone at least subconsciously recognizes gives them all the cool things they want) they note that the wealth gap between the richest and middle class is almost universal and has nothing to do with major corporations at all, just the nature of a top-down governed society.
Not passing judgements on these more modern fears by the way; weather they are justified or not is up to future historians, not myself.
>>47972689
true
And what better way to stamp out anti-authoritarianism than to label it as "childish" and "backwards" ?
>>47972663
Because raising your own employees is inefficient and nonsensical when you can let others do it and just exploit them.
And individualism is a huge part of Cyberpunk. After all, you need to buy all these products and use these services to express your individuality.
Just don't be an individual capable of independant thought where it matters.
>>47972680
You didn't make any statements in that last post. You just asked questions.
>>47972689
>Anti-authoritarianism is something that modern culture is doing its level best to stamp out as best it can.
Just look at the people who THINK they are rebels: dull, samey-looking, vapid and pretentious consumerist millennial teenagers who think they are being rebellious for being far-left LGBTQABCD+, who think they are oppressed and fighting the good fight...while repeating an opinion the media is shoving down everyone's throat and labeling anyone who disagree a neo-nazi.
Nothing is more 'rebellious' than a hipster with tatoos, giant holes in xir ears, a Mac, drinking starbuck off the money their daddy is making. /s
>>47972717
They don't seem that different from those found in traditional cyberpunk, and there's more abstract ones that have no reason to stop just because the economy changed a little.
Cyberpunk doesn't HAVE to be a symptom of the times.
>>47971907
But they're gonna make a sequel to the best cyberpunk game ever, anon.
I miss 80s and early 90s cyberpunk anime. Remember when anime seemed like the manliest shit in the entire world?
>>47972633
mexico doesn't really "feel" cyberpunk, it feels like any other unstable, crime-ridden latin american country in the last 60 years.
>>47972731
not in the posts before that, obviously.
>>47972733
see that's the thing: rebelliousness has been diluted into the mainstream to the point where it completely lost any solid meaning. Just like cyberpunk.
>>47972733
I'd argue that in the US there's been two Presidental candidates who made their entire election platform thing extremely anti-authoritarian (though one in particular has a reputation for being quite severe in his authorian measures in his area of influence).
But if you mean the style stuff? Yeah.
People figured out halfway through the 90's that all the style shit that they bought into because it was rebellious and cool was actually being sold to them by the guys who they were trying to rebel from in the first place and had almost since the very beginning.
It kind of put a damper on the entire thing and make people wonder WTF even was the point in the first place.
>>47972766
I know you're baiting but your bait is true nonetheless.
It always seemed like a stupid concept, to be honest. I don't know how it caught on.
>>47972783
Yeah, and they threw the baby (rebelliousness) with the bathwater (the accessories)
>>47972724
it would help if the means anti-authoritarianism chose to express itself right now weren't things labled childish before the anti-authoritarians took them up.
That you are looking back with such foundness to the 80s and 90s, which is when you were children, is rather telling.
>>47972796
it IS a stupid concept but we live in stupid times.
>>47972766
There's always Gundam Thunderbolt.
>>47971907
I think it became as fantasy as the usual medieval settings, just less consumable.
As someone at IT have put it, cyberpunk will never come, because people don't know how to make, modify, and fix technological tings.
I mean most don't know how to dod as system restore on windows, or how to get the office printer working, how are we supposed to commertalize high tech, that can't be used by pre-school children and is easier to replace than underwear?
>>47972726
>And individualism is a huge part of Cyberpunk. After all, you need to buy all these products and use these services to express your individuality.
You got it wrong. In the cyberpunk themes, you buy these things because your company makes them. You do it because your company is so large that you can basically live off purely on its products. That's why corporate slaves are described looking all the same, eating the same thing and watching/listening to the same cultural products.
Having special things to show your originality was the mark of the protagonists in cyberpunk, not the wageslave. In our society, however, wageslaves define themselves with what they buy, because the economy has created dozens upon dozens of small companies that became big by selling to niche markets, which is arguably materialistic, but nonetheless pretty remote from the 80s cyberpunk.
>>47971990
corpret espionage with ak47 when
>>47972616
No, there are countercultures. 4chan hates them and makes fun of them.
>>47972663
>>47972543
Corporations have more power than governments. The US can't pass gun control laws that a majority of citizens want because the democratic-republic process favours lobbyists with money. Hell, the fossil fuel industry (and the tobacco industry before it) has fucked up the world by lying about what their product does, faking studies and working to undermine and discredit what the average citizen knows. History is falsified and rewritten to better conform to what lobbyists want, as opposed to telling the truth. If you don't think we're living in a cyberpunk world, look at Monsanto. Look at anything from the farming industry.
The only difference is that, yeah, punk hasn't taken off. When people tried to fight the man a few years ago, they were slandered by the media. When they tried to fight the man this year, the media ignored them. Historic protests went down and DC arrested more people than ever, and protesters lined up outside the media companies. Did that get any meaningful coverage?
>>47972580
Honestly, I am a bit surprised that more traditional cyberpunk isn't more common. I mean, most of the shows you get these days are hackers working OUTSIDE THE LAW or for the law, not any of the FIGHT THE MAN stuff you'd get in the 80s. But there really is a lot of cause for FIGHT THE MAN stuff. Hell, 4chan makes fun of tumblr, but the stereotype of that crowd would love cyberpunk themes: You're oppressed for being an outsider, whether you're queer or coloured or just a weirdo. The world is shit. Fight back and make it better
I mean, fuck, millennials are saddled with shitloads of debt from buying into a lie their elders sold them, most work harder for less, and constantly get told they're not trying hard enough or applying themselves. That is a demographic that is just begging for punk stories about people who are good hearted and altruistic and fighting against the man
>>47972747
No, but the ultra violence and nihilism part of it ARE symptomatic of the time it was in.
Cyberpunk that is socially relevant right now would look very different because neither of those things are as relevant as they used to be and shock us much less than they used to when they are.
I apologize; I wasn't clear I think.
I didn't mean to say that cyberpunk ITSELF would die, only that the nihilistic and violence themes would die out because they aren't as socially relevant anymore and thus are less about the near-future and more about the "that already came and went".
>>47972778
>see that's the thing: rebelliousness has been diluted into the mainstream to the point where it completely lost any solid meaning. Just like cyberpunk.
It was ALREADY pretty mainstream.
That's why in the 1980's you had so many extremely popular and successful cyberpunk films and themes. Punk music hadn't gotten popular quite yet, but goddam if shit like RoboCop and Running Man and GETCHOR ASS TO MAHS didn't sell like hotcakes.
It's just that people hadn't yet realized that rebelling using elements given to them by the people they were rebelling against was kind of circular and masturbatory at heart.
>>47972493
>Trump
>conservative celebrity
>>47972819
Yeah it would help, but saying dumb shit on youtube is easy.
>That you are looking back with such foundness to the 80s and 90s, which is when you were children, is rather telling.
Not really. It's irrelevant anyway.
>>47972825
>>47972796
My friend is a big fan of it. He once bought an indie card game just because it had a sort of cyber punk theme. It was awful.
I genuinely don't see the appeal. Even simply aesthetically, it is pretty hideous.
>>47971907
Source?
>>47972766
Part of what makes anime girly now comes from SEVERE cultural problems that have been affecting Japan since the 1990's; so yeah, it was manly because the culture itself was different and economic and cultural shifts changed the country like it did every other nation in the last 26 years.
>>47971941
You can track its evolution in the Terminator movies, of all things.
The first one is about smashing the machines.
The second one is about smashing the machines by going after their inventors, which the authorities protect.
The third one is about realizing the machines are inevitable and doing your level best to survive in the world they create with the help of the authorities.
The fourth one is about taking back the world from the machines by (essentially) bombing everything back to the vacuum-tube age.
The fifth one is probably the closest we've ever gotten to "post-cyberpunk." We now serve the machines, and the fight to stop them causes massive collateral damage.
>>47972783
>>47972778
There's nothing rebellious in holding opinions validated by the mainstream media. Things which were once out of the mainstream have now not only become mainstream, they've become diluted, corporatized, a mere brand for people to wear. See: the gentrification of anything 'nerdy' and...hell, even gay culture has morphed from sick-weirdos-living-an-edgy-life to suburban quaintness.
The real rebels are the people our media label as wrong or even monstrous, ranging from legit far-right extremist to disaffected leftist who have been cast aside by their ideology's inevitable spiral into madness. Yet even here, I see people knee-jerking whenever these ideas are brought up. People are afraid. And those who dare rebel are mocked and shunned.
>>47972851
I know it was pretty mainstream but at least it was identifiable as such. There were subcultures based around it that were very prominent; they were fake as fuck most of the time but they existed. Now there's a bunch of vague traces of it, but it's not "a thing" anymore.
And I say that cyberpunk without nihilistic and violent themes is worthless and deserves to die, while violent and edgy cyberpunk, even if it's masturbatory or not quite attuned to current issues (which is arguable) doesn't deserve to die.
>>47972853
Well he IS a celebrity.
And technically he's socially conservative when it comes to certain subjects, though he's pretty inconsistent about that sort of thing when you try to pin him down on the subject matter.
But I digress; weather Trump will be a major influence in future pop culture depends on if he wins or not.
>>47972872
Kinda off-topic, but what's the best cyberpunk media?Blade Runner/Do Androids Dream and Ghost in the Shell go without saying
>>47972941
GitS really isn't that good. watch Serial Experiments Lain instead.
>>47972844
Monsanto is the perfect example of a company that gets criticized at every turn and most of its controversial products are banned outside of the US because of that trough. The fact that your government is corrupt may be bad, but it's hardly generalized nor particularly cyberpunk.
The real issue is that cyberpunk didn't predict that the giant conglomerates were, in fact, just as bad as governments in terms of efficiency, and that smaller companies in the digital age would be much more efficient to sell everything to everyone.
>>47972941
They Live. Hands down.
>>47972919
and this is the people back to the 80s and 90s childhood, which make you look childish I was talking about.
>>47972919
So basically you don't like a Thing and want Thing to not be a Thing anymore or being the way Thing was back before the Thing was what the Thing is?
That's fair.
Silly, but it's a totally legitimate reason to start a thread on here and there's probably two or three more on here right now jest like it.
>>47972875
Gurren Lagann?
>>47972844
Shit, you know what the most recent "fight the man, be a punk" work I can think of was? DmC: Devil May Cry. The game with literally just Bill O'Reilly as a demon.
>>47972689
This is pretty true.
>>47972783
Yeah, and the one anti-establishment candidate who was actually anti-establishment got shafted and denied and was fucked over by his own base as well as the media. The other one on the other hand went up against limp fish trying to keep to the Grand Old Party traditions and just played up the racism and ignorance that's right out of the GOP playbook and won.
>>47972733
How do you not realize that you're part of the problem? This is what I've said a few times in this thread: Anyone who actually cares or gives a shit about something is mocked and derided. You're not a Neo-Nazi, you're just the exact kind of reason that Cyberpunk is dead. You mock the people who try to reject the norm. This attitude that has been sold to you by the media and by memetic repetition is bullshit, but you don't care, you buy into it. The stereotype of the bra burning double standard misandrist feminist is older than you are and was never really even true then, but you still buy the new model hook line and sinker.
This is why cyberpunk doesn't work. Because you and people like you, who say you want cyberpunk back, start getting irrationally hateful when it comes to highlighting the actual punkish culture. I mean, let's put it down to very simple brass tacks. Those people are rebelling, even if its just to rebel against gender. How are you rebelling? What way do you go against the grain that society tells you to conform to?
Also, re: Millennials: Millennials as a "thing" is a concept that has repeatedly been debunked. This is my personal favourite take down of it, but you can honestly just google to find more. The concept of the pretentious consumerist millennial teenager is a fallacy. It's a prepackaged stereotype sold to you.
https://youtu.be/-HFwok9SlQQ
>>47972766
Got any suggestions?
I got Megazone 23 queued up, but I'm looking for more.
>>47972926
He's center-left on everything except immigration and abortion. On immigration he has taken a hardline nativist stance, and on abortion he took a legalist stance. I'm sorry, but when your trade policies interface with Ralph Nader more than Ronald Reagan, you stopped being a right-winger.
>>47972961
>They Live
>cyberpunk
Anon what?
>>47972952
SEL isn't really watchable. Watch the GiTS movie instead.
>>47972900
Bro, 4chan has been mainstream for years. When my ideas get mocked and shunned, that's when I know I hit a trigger point.
>>47972962
Rephrase your sentence in a proper way .
>>47972992
>A man fights against society that has been brainwashed by "aliens" using technology that he fights to destroy
I don't know how much more cyberpunk you can get. Just because he isn't wearing black leather doesn't mean it isn't cyberpunk.
>>47971907
Because it came true and no one wants to be reminded that they live in a corporate-controlled country with a deliberately shrinking middle class, workers being replaced with robots, and food that isn't real.
>>47973017
It seems to be missing the "cyber" part, no?
>>47972973
Why are you assuming I'm OP.
And you're blatantly oversimplifying things in order to make my opinion appear silly when it's not.
>>47972956
>the giant conglomerates were, in fact, just as bad as governments in terms of efficiency
This is honestly not a comforting thought. And those giant companies still manipulate governments. It's not as if the Kochs are only dealing in American politics.
>>47972999
Or, perhaps they're just not good
>>47972952
Lain
Denno COIL is pretty rad - <3 gramma hacker
GitS is pretty great, honestly.
>>47972995
SEL is perfectly watchable and deals with similar topics in a more thorough and critical manner. Don't watch the GitS movie.
>>47972242
Don't be so quick to scoff, anonymous. For instance...
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=FdyknT4uchM
>>47973041
GitS is heavily flawed. All of it. ESPECIALLY Innocence.
>>47973000
So I'm different guy in the reply chain, the one saying you get labeled as childish not just to invalidate you, but because you did things already labeled as childish.
What you want back for cyberpunk is the thing that defined cyberpunk of the 80s and 90s. You insist that only that sort of cyberpunk is good and deserving. Things not connected to this 80s and 90s idea are bad.
But that's the time period when you were a child.
You say 'look at how cool this is', and others respond 'I can see how that would seem cool to a 12 year old'.
>>47973034
You are buying into the idiot Government vs. Not-Government bullshit.
There is no difference. There is power.
>>47973052
>GitS is heavily flawed
[citation needed]
Just because it isn't what you wanted it to be doesn't mean it isn't great.
>>47973043
agree to disagree. Not saying SEL is bad, I'm saying it was intentionally made to be difficult to watch.
>>47973058
I'm perfectly aware that people say this, but it's not nearly enough to invalidate me and what I say.
I hope you realize that.
>>47973029
No, I'm assuming you're that other anon.
And it's not a silly opinion at all.
It's equally as relevant as every other opinion on here.
>>47972900
The thing is, even far-right ideas aren't safe from being used in the advertisement or media nowadays. There has been a lot of examples those last years.
>>47973052
And Lain isnt'?
Fuck off
>>47971907
Because traditional RPGs are really conservative with their setting. Once there is a cult following, shit will be alive forever.
It's not NECESSARILY a bad thing, but some tropes should stay dead.
>>47973084
No, the reason why it's not great is because it frequently fails at doing what it sets out to achieve, and only succeeds at a cost.
It's always inelegant, always clunky, always superficial in some areas and too heavy-handed in others. The entire franchise.
>>47973066
the punk and anti-authoriarians problem is they don't actually understand that it's all power.
You want to change things, that takes power. You need to make yourself capable of acts of power, which involves working together.
You succeeded in that, you are now a power base. With organization, communication, norms, hierarchy... authority.
You can't fight all power, you can only act with power.
>>47973134
Point out SEL's flaws.
>>47973143
>muh opinions
>>47973153
It's obtuse, mystical, confusing, and sometimes downright boring.
>>47973146
You can't fight against power. That is what power wants, you have to aikkido that shit and redirect the power at other targets. It's all about slipping through the shadows, chummer.
>>47973101
no, but it does show why very few people are interested in what you're saying.
At the time I thought it was cool because I thought it was 'adult', but as an adult I realize it was childish, so if I'm going enjoy my inner 12 year old, I'm not going to enjoy it's childish nature.
So like you I do love 80s and 90s style cyberpunk. As silly, childish, goofiness. But it's nothing worth taking seriously.
>>47973172
I'll grant you boring.
Being mystical isn't a flaw since it's based on a fantastical premise where psychic powers are a thing.
And obtuseness is a good thing since it's a mystery show where the entertainment value is derived from unraveling the mystery.
>>47973208
which leaves you powerless as before.
If you are going to manipulate power, why not do that from within power.
>>47973209
the "I laugh at the things I found adult when I was 12" mindset is also something people can grow out of. I know I did.
A lot of 80s cyberpunk is certainly goofy, and the violence is more spectacular than anything, but it still rings true and needs to exist.
>>47973211
that doesn't sound like cyberpunk.
That sounds like psychological mystical mystery show.
At this point I might as well recommend Hellsing Ultimate. Sure it's not remotely cyberpunk, but damn is it a fun.
On cyberpunk, you could try Gunslinger Girls. But that is designed to hit you right it the feels. I mean that literally, it's emotionally manipulative and it makes you like that.
>>47973245
The highest goodness resembles water
Water greatly benefits myriad things without contention
It stays in places that people dislike
Therefore it is similar to the Tao
Dwelling with the right location
Feeling with great depth
Giving with great kindness
Speaking with great integrity
Governing with great administration
Handling with great capability
Moving with great timing
Because it does not contend
It is therefore beyond reproach
>>47973250
>rings true
lost me there.
Needs to exist I can sort of buy, because glorious hyperviolence is fun, but being 'true' in comparison to more emotional or psychological version is losing me hard.
>>47972759
Is E.Y.E even cyberpunk? It looks like its own thing.
>>47972982
>>47972733
>The concept of the pretentious consumerist millennial teenager is a fallacy. It's a prepackaged stereotype sold to you.
To continue with this, since I ran out of room: It's a prepackage stereotype sold to you to make you dismiss anti-authoritarianism. This is why it doesn't exist like it did in the 80s. Because the media--whether intentionally or not--works to subvert and undermine it. Occupy Wallstreet? Just a bunch of pretentious hipsters. Anyone gender-critical? Perverts and weirdos making things up to be special snowflakes.
The ideals of 'Punk--of going against the grain, standing out, making your own way, and fighting against societal injustice and oppression--are mocked and insulted, and anyone who has those views is dismissed out of hand. The amount of times someone with a good point is harassed or insulted for using a word that upsets mainstream culture is astounding. People will ignore an argument to focus on the use of the word "problematic" as a reason to dismiss it. There's real scientific evidence for gender (and sex) and sexuality as nonbinary, but that gets ignored in favour of insulting anyone who actually goes against that binary.
'Punk died because it became an insult to be a punk. Hell, just look at the "Unpopular Opinion Puffin" meme on Imgur. Nothing but a fishbowl of majority opinion refreshed and restated over and over. Nothing unpopular at all, except with the actual unpopular crowd.
>>47973066
No I'm not. I'm saying that corporations are no better than a government, whether they're idiots or not. Corporations are just a different kind of government.
>>47973153
Point out GitS's. >>47973143 isn't really meaningful without specific examples.
>>47973281
It IS a psychological mystical mystery show, but it addresses and criticizes a lot of contemporary futuristic fantasies (some of which are present in GitS) and on top of that it has your usual cyberpunk characters and plot devices.
So, while it can't be considered a direct extrapolation of our world, it's still cyberpunk as fuck.
>>47973317
It's cyberpunk mixed with a lot of things.
>>47972982
>>47973331
You sound like you live in a fantasy reality where feminists and queer theory are not only not socially accepted and enforced but in fact shunned.
>Anyone gender-critical?
>fighting against societal injustice and oppression--are mocked and insulted, and anyone who has those views is dismissed out of hand
Well, what do you make of the dreaded Men's Right Activist, then? Its a genuine question I have for you assuming that my post is not conveniently deleted.
>>47973211
I have experienced various "psychic phenomena" over the years. James Randi is actually a psychic practitioner who is calling people out to challenge his power. But it's a lot easier to confound psychic powers with negapsychic abilities than it is to actually tune them, especially as we're still on the rising edge of the upward galactic core energetic harmonic. Duh.
>>47972148
>not having monsters who attracted to your phones
>>47973396
MRAs are reactionary Puritans, low status men who are realizing that they are of less value to society than many women. They grab onto this ideology because they are trying to hold on to an idea that they are "better than" the "blue haired, lip pierced SJW." Geek girls picked up on those kind of social cues once they hit college, peacocking to demonstrate sexual availability and rejection of the Judeo-Christian norms. That represents everything that they hate and fear, awakened female sexuality. They desire submissive sexual partners, and their incessant consumption of violent pornography and subsuquent fear that they can't measure up to the large cock has warped their entire view of human sexuality by making them feel as if the extreme outliers are the norm. etc. etc. Basically they are cucked before they ever fucked, and this makes them buttmad and they shit all over everything.
>>47973331
>Point out GitS's.
Shirow's manga has terrible storytelling that relies too much on expository dialog, which is hard to get involved into, since the only things the characters seem to care about is very inconsequential. There's several pages entirely dedicated to technobabble, and overall it's just a mess of everything he finds interesting rather than a solid story, and his characters are pretty weak and devoid of motivations, even if they're funny and cool.
Oshii relies way too much on quotes and heavy-handed symbols that aren't very relevant, and end up making his movies look like pretentious parables about all of humanity when they're just psychological thrillers about very peculiar characters. Even then, he completely sacrifices the manga's humor and distinctive style.
The anime sacrifices visual appeal in favor of story, and the main cast barely seems involved in the plot. It's once again hard to care about what's happening when it's all dull and the characters don't seem to give a shit. Like the episode where we learn about Motoko's past; it could have been very dramatic but it's just another exposition dump. As for Arise, it does a better job but still looks unappealing and inconclusive.
>>47973533
>>47972982
>Anyone who actually cares or gives a shit about something is mocked and derided.
>It's a prepackage stereotype sold to you to make you dismiss anti-authoritarianism
>Anyone gender-critical? Perverts and weirdos making things up to be special snowflakes.
>>47972663
>>47972717
I think if we are headed for a dystopia it's probably going to be something like WALL-E or a really banal version of Brave New World with some Brazil thrown in. A land of paradoxes where the internet grants us access to entirety of human knowledge and the ability to communicate with people anywhere in the world... which we use to dig ourselves deeper into a solipsistic hole. Technology makes our lives easier and easier... and we blow most of that extra free time fucking around with technology. All communication is monitored in some way... but the byzantine nature of government and the shear amount of data it generates renders that surveillance kind of meaningless. No one needs to bother actively stamping out rebellion. Social media slacktivism ensures that anyone who wants to rebel just spins their wheels, whining about how offended/offended that other people are offended they are to people who already agree with every word and joining "protest" movements that go absolutely nowhere because the people involved only really cared about feeling like they were accomplishing something whether or not they did jack shit.
In a lot of ways it's more terrifying than totalitarianism or corporate oligarchy. Nobody fights the power because there's no real power to fight. Governments and corporations are too sprawling and self interested to really care much about you, so people invent boogeymen to cover up the fact that THEY are what's really keeping them down.Alternatively, it's a descent into far right reactionary mob rule.
>>47973143
>It's always inelegant, always clunky, always superficial in some areas and too heavy-handed in others.
And yet you say that sort of criticism cannot apply to SEL as those things somehow become strengths for it instead.
You don't have to bend over backwards to try and justify how your tastes are superior, mate. It's okay just to like different things for different reasons without having 'correct' favorites.
>>47973639
SEL is a mystery show, GitS isn't supposed to be challenging to understand or be a trippy exploration of a dissolving reality.
>>47973396
Oh grow up. If you think decent human behavior is "enforced", you're probably a tool. Even then, I can't go anywhere without seeing insults and dismissal of anything outside the norm.
But you'll be surprised to know that while I hate what the modern Men's Rights Movement is like, and all it's spin offs like Men Going Their Own Way and The Red Pill, I'm a feminist who cares about how men are fucked over by heteronormative bullshit. Being insulted for being raped, not getting help when facing domestic abuse, discrimination in child custody, the weird cultural notion that all men are rapists, toxic masculinity, even the idea that men are inherently more capable of performing feats of physical exertion simply because on average they have more muscle mass; all those ways that men face gender discrimination. Hell, trans and queer issues are or should be men's rights issues.
But regardless of my personal views, you're missing the point. You're doing the thing that was being complained about. You're dismissing the anti-authority views. You're mocking and insulting the punks. You're killing cyberpunk.
>>47973533
Uh, that's a bit simplistic, but I guess?
>>47973580
Bro, there are grassroots organizations doing political work on just about every cause you can imagine. If you are feeling hopeless, find better people to surround yourself with.
>>47973309
I feel strong emotional involvement when horrific things are shown. That's the point of horror: you get to see the worst that could conceivably happen, and that is normally hidden away in the rest of entertainment.
>>47973580
But the point is that those people aren't really being gender critical. They're being reactionary and shutting down the people who view things differently. That's not questioning things, it's demanding the things that the media promised you. If anything, that's buying into what the authoritarians say the world should be like. And, honestly, that's why I hate the modern men's rights movement. It treats sex and women as objects and commodities, demanding society that they be given these things.
Nevermind the fact that the current people who've more or less coopted the movement--who you see on /adv/ and /r9k/ and /pol/ and r/mensrights and r/theredpill and on Youtube, and in the comments of porn threads on /gif/ and elsewhere--are quick to turn on and attack anyone who doesn't hold the beliefs. I mean, that's a thing that happens with most subculture, but think about how often you see the insult "cuck" or "beta" in those kind of groups. It's reinforcing the norm, not being critical of it.
Also, seriously, all the original Punk groups were pretty fucking queer before that genre and aesthetic got co-opted by Neo-Nazis.
>>47973714
Yeah, but let's be honest, they don't work as well as they should in an ideal world. I mean, Occupy Wallstreet became a joke and Democracy Spring was ignored.
Also, he was thinking that poster was me, and I think misinterpreting what both of us were saying.
>>47971907
You want cyberpunk back?
Re-invent it.
Now that most stuff cyberpunk introduced is becoming slowly reality, then you'd need to go and find different core elements for it.
The grittiness, the mega-corps and other elements that defined old-school cyberpunk needs to be expanded with new elements.
Make cyberpunk more mystical and spiritual with the whole cyberspace and machinery.
Show what happens when people try to play God and create nano-empowered supersoldiers that devolve into murderous monsters that make Dead Space's Necromorphs and The Thing look like friendly beings that come in peace.
If psychic powers are present, then even add the supernatural elements with psychic ghosts ala Japanese Onryo who'll make your life into hell.
Apart of the positives of technology and scientific advances, show the negatives of it. What kind of price humanity has to pay for the sweet tech they have.
Add issues with cyborgs and mutants. Dunno about the latter if they'll be or not, but the first ones are bound to appear one day.
Make certain parts of the world completely lawless. Megacorps may rule in the large cities, but even they would have their limits when it comes to the underground mega-structures where entire hobo colonies, mutant nomad caravans, rebel hacker freedom fighters and secret societies of cybernetic ninja monks exist.
Stuff like that...though even these won't make it more visible to people.
>>47973704
>I'm a feminist who cares about how men are fucked over by heteronormative bullshit. Being insulted for being raped, not getting help when facing domestic abuse, discrimination in child custody, the weird cultural notion that all men are rapists, toxic masculinity, even the idea that men are inherently more capable of performing feats of physical exertion simply because on average they have more muscle mass; all those ways that men face gender discrimination. Hell, trans and queer issues are or should be men's rights issues.
How do you even live with the fucking paradox you are? Your very movement, your very ideas you embrace are why things are shitty for men and anyone trying to even bring it up gets labelled, and I quote:
"reactionary Puritans, low status men who are realizing that they are of less value to society than many women. They grab onto this ideology because they are trying to hold on to an idea that they are "better than" the "blue haired, lip pierced SJW." Geek girls picked up on those kind of social cues once they hit college, peacocking to demonstrate sexual availability and rejection of the Judeo-Christian norms. That represents everything that they hate and fear, awakened female sexuality. They desire submissive sexual partners, and their incessant consumption of violent pornography and subsuquent fear that they can't measure up to the large cock has warped their entire view of human sexuality by making them feel as if the extreme outliers are the norm. etc. etc. Basically they are cucked before they ever fucked, and this makes them buttmad and they shit all over everything."
Who is it saying that, if not feminist? Who is it that dismiss any notion that maybe just maybe that movement hasn't always done good?
Nevermind my opinion will always get dismissed as me being some sort of puritan. So much for lived experiences, huh, when its inconvenient to your narrative?
>>47973696
GitS, the entire series, engages seriously with problems with existential transhumanism... I think it's pretty cool for that, but okay.
>>47973704
Of course it's a bit simplistic, it's a first-draft shitpost on 4chan, not a dissertation.
>>47973579
The manga is a trip. In this sense reminds me of HPL, oddly enough. Story is not really that important.
Oshii was well into becoming a hack with that movie, you're right, but the fact that you consider Arise's characters more interesting than SAC's ones makes me think you're just trolling us.
>Arise is shit PRECISELY because it uses dull characters
>>47973331
OWS was not characterized as a bunch of hipsters, it was seen and shown to be a bunch of people with too little social awareness and too much trash left everywhere purposefully disobeying laws and riot against an establishment in the hands of a black man they helped elect.
Source: minimum wage worker in the US.
FYI I am more oppressed than you, I work for 7.25 an hour.
Marx says I win by default.
>>47973756
LoL dude, who do you think voted for Bernie? Who do you think is doing this whole "Revolution" thing? Who do you think is the thousands of progressives that have signed up to run for government office. It's the same people. Just because the camps aren't there anymore doesn't mean that the ideas were purged... That's the benefit of America... In some regimes those people would have been literally slaughtered.
>>47973775
Not that guy, but its pretty clear you have no idea what the fuck any form of feminism is. Patriarchy and capital oppress men too, largely in ways that MRA stuff tends to glorify.
>>47973704
Hate to break it to you but until women's studies stops being a major in uni. you are the authority. Corporations like Twitter and Facebook censor right wingers and the IRS is used as a weapon against right wing interests. The left is the authority, so left wing stuff being punk doesn't make any sense any more.
We do not snuff out "anti-authoritarian" views, we point out that they are not authoritarian.
>Deus Ex one of the biggest games of this year
>Cyberpunk 2077 should be great if/when it comes out
>Watch_Dogs 2 is definitely cyberpunk no matter what anyone says
Vidya is in the middle of a raging boner for cyberpunk.
>>47972844
A majority dies NOT want gun control.
Stop buying into the lies.
>>47973776
GitS certainly goes to great extents to point out the flaws and paradoxes of transhumanism, and so does Lain, but the difference is that Lain, as a piece of entertainment, is fun because it's challenging to understand the plot, which is directly intertwined with the abstract issues it deals with. GitS, however, kind of hops from one level to the other, from existential musings to political drama, to sci-fi crime fiction, and it rarely all comes together in a cohesive way.
>>47973781
Arise's major is a freak, and that at least makes her slightly more interesting than SAC's major, who doesn't have anything special compared to the rest of her team (except that she's supposed to be totally badass whatever).
>>47973756
And keep in mind that this isn't JUST about gender shit. Again, while we're making headway because of the internet, going against the mainstream is fucking difficult. All these movements go up against established candidates and can't do fuck all because they have money and power and can make the rules. I am legitimately surprised that the Democrats staged a walk out or sit in or whatever over gun control, but I honestly doubt anything will happen.
The traditional GOP platform is crumbling, but it's being replaced by the Democratic party essentially being the same thing without overt racism or sexism. It's not all that much better, because "incremental change eventually" is the name of the scraps being given, and that seems to work.
In the 80s, people assumed that one geek with a computer could take down the government and create a revolution. It turns out that millions of geeks with computers can't do that.
>>47973775
>How do you even live with the fucking paradox you are?
Because it's not a paradox. You just think it is because you buy into a narrative tha--didn't I already explain this?
>Who is it saying that, if not feminist?
Well, that wasn't me, but it's not like only feminists are critical of the MRA RedPill Alt-Right attitude.
>>47973811
I'm depressed and can't work and have no insurance. I'm also queer. Suck it and go back to /pol/.
>>47973824
I know it's the same people. I'm just saying... that's not working out. The media shot it down again.
"The revolution WILL be televised... for seventeen seconds".
>>47973331
>>47973811
OWS was the name of a single extended protest. I like how you think that the people involved, who gave up months of their normal life to make a statement that you are still talking about YEARS LATER, just stopped being involved with politics and gave up on social change.
The camps were about planting seeds that have been spreading ever since. It may take a few years, but we're just getting started, bro!
>>47973756
I'm not sure why you are taking /gif/ as some sort of symptom of society when it really comes down to people who like black dude in porn getting into internet fights with people who don't.
It's a more vanilla version of the great futa debate. People who like futa will make eight thousand futa threads because you can add futa to everything, and people who don't like futa say not to bring futa into their threads which causes futafags to start mass posting futa. Just replace dick girls with black dudes and the argument is the same.
>>47971907
> so dead in everything but tabletop
After what feels like years of delays, VA-11 HALL-A just launched. It's an okayish to good VN bartending game made by some Venezuelan anons from /agdg/
>>47973898
>Depressed.
I raise you obbsessive anxiety and minority religious views in the bible belt. I am also a minority skin color at my workplace.
Please end yourself.
You have nothing of worth but complaints to give the world. Do us all a favor and fellate a shotgun before returning to the he'll from whence you came.
>>47973899
I didn't say that they have up, my guess is they are the same fascists that violently attack political opponents (trump) now.
They were totalitarians a then and they are now.
>>47973897
I don't see a problem with that, honestly. Motoko WAS more badass in the manga, and that was more or less the point.
She was "special", other than that, because ful cyborg and that meant she could become what she becomes, but...
>>47973889
http://www.pollingreport.com/guns.htm
>>47973899
It was a movement, not just the one protest. And the movement sort of fell apart. It coalesced back around Bernie, but the media did its best to shut it down.
>>47973928
Actually, it's people who don't like black dude porn (or transsexuals, or gays, or anything not heteronormative) trying to start fights and usually getting ignored. I was really only mentioning /gif/ offhand. Really, you see the same attitude all over 4chan. Dismissing anyone that isn't falling in line. And often that line happens to be a very heteronormative one that's informed by toxicly masculine ideals (although 4chan is still pretty fucking gay)
I'm talking stuff like ">respecting a woman" and ">she" and ">posting bestiality" other posts that just make you think the poster is a 14 year old, even though you know the sad truth is they're probably old enough to post on 4chan. That sort of Alt-Right attitude. And really, that's just a small part of it. You see it all over the internet, not just on the porn. You see it all over 4chan, all over Reddit, Imgur, Youtube, pretty much everywhere. That takes up a lot more of the cultural consciousness than the "SJWs" that are allegedly everywhere.
>>47974004
I also have obsessive anxiety, as well as minority religious views (though Virginia isn't the bible belt). AND I have student debt I can't pay, and I'm a nonbinary tranny.Why are we playing Oppression Olympics again? Isn't this divisiveness sort of keeping either of us from focusing on The Man, omae?
>>47973898
>movements can't go up against
But Bernie, a self-described democratic socialist, won 40% of the delegates in an uphill battle, from a dead start, against motherfucking HRC who has been building her support in the party for decades. That's huge.
Politics is an grueling ultra-marathon, not a sprint, and now all of the millions of people that have been involved with Bernie's campaign are moving forward to the next steps. We're organized and pushing for progressive policies, and we're not going to stop because of a single election.
>the media shot it down
The media doesn't have the power to shoot anything down. They have the power of appearances. They haven't stopped shit.
>>47973898
>>47973811
>>47974004
You call all be oppressed, there's plenty of oppression to go around
>>47974051
SAC Motoko is still very boring at any rate, especially when compared to her manga version, who goofs up every now and then and expresses emotions.
>>47974053
Masculinity can't be toxic, though.
>>47973990
The catgilr design is 2000's.
>>47972733
You think previous eras were any different? Malcolm McClaren was a businessman first and punk... 6th? 7th? Major labels have never had a problem signing punk bands either, and it's not like indie labels don't ultimately exist to make money no matter what ideals they espouse. The hippie era wasn't much different in that regard, either. Hot Topic made boatloads of money off goth and emo. There's no end to the number of movies from the 80s about fighting the corporations that were made by corporations. We can even go back to the 20's, where Hollywood made movies about drinking and partying to appeal to young people who did (or wished they could do) just that in the face of Prohibition. People have been trying to make money off youthful rebellion for as long as there has been a youth culture. It's all just another sort of tribalism and conformity in the end.
>>47974053
The man. I just explained you are the man. You took the oppression Olympics bait. Fuck off.
No one is oppressing you. Go to youtube, look up free domain radio. That is a dude who is fighting the man. Not a disgrace to the state of Virginia. Watch some of his shot, go the fuck outside, and maybe consider how blessed you are that the man hasn't imported a shitload of jihadis.
Or just duck off back to tumblr. I am sure they want to play pretend with you.
>>47974118
Ain't toxic masculinity the sort that's like "emotions are for little sissy girls"?
>>47974053
The whole (Trump, cuck, MRA, SJW, Gamergate, nigger, slut, ...) people. They are all the same Alt-Right. It's fascinating, and a little scary to watch.
>>47974004
>urging someone who is depressed to suicide
>calling someone else a violent fascist
cuck off, go suck on some cheetoes, Trump cuck bitch
>>47971907
BECAUSE WE LIVE IN A CYBER PUNK FUTURE NOW.
BUT IT IS SADLY THE MOST BORING VERSION OF CYBERPUNK.
>>47974164
Naw lad, remember the whole twitter artificial intelligence thing? We're living in the stupidest cyberpunk future
>>47971907
>Shadowrun
>cyberpunk
>smug gibson.jpg
>>47974084
I do agree, but I raise you again the HPL analogy. Is Randolph Carter by any means an "interesting character"?
SAC was good because the stories, about other characters mostly, were good. Simple as that.
>>47972186
Make it like Ju-on, where the monsters are inimical to technology. Alternately, incorporate technology in the monsters like Ring
>>47974159
>hurtful words
>actual violence
Definitely equal.
Look I am a #carsonarson not a wall man
>>47974084
I don't think the episodic format of SAC could adequately explore that kind of character development, but I enjoyed the cop-drama intrigue in a universe that I very much enjoy. It's why I play Infinity. It's basically tabletop GitS with a different skin thrown on top.
>>47974054
>That's huge.
Not huger than voter fraud and bought coverage!
Whoever has the power of the media has the power of public perception.
>>47974118
>>47974156
>Ain't toxic masculinity the sort that's like "emotions are for little sissy girls"?
Yes. And the notion that destructiveness is masculine, and that masculinity is about taking. That being nurturing is bad. There are hundreds of ways masculinity can be toxic. And shit, that was a men's rights concept, not a feminist one.
Hell, femininity can be toxic as well, like when women buy into the notion that they should be seen and not heard, and that religions ideal of the quiet woman who never questions her husband.
>>47974143
Oh grow the fuck up.
>>47974234
>Ben Carson
Literally the only thingthat would be worse is if you said Cruz.
>>47974234
Show me the significant amounts of anti-Trump violence. A few scuffles at rallies don't count, you little bitch.
Cyberpunk doesn't have enough Power Armor for my tastes
>>47974212
>the stories were good
And they're told in the most boring way with the dullest visuals. Lain at least looks cool.
As for the Dream-Quest, the point isn't the story, it's all the outlandish and marvelous details and locations that are presented. SAC has nothing in the way of wonder, at most, it shows us worrying things, but nothing really freakish or impressive, unlike what HPL constantly does.
>>47974271
>a few scuffles
When there's an actual jackboot on your throat, you'll have nobody to blame but yourself
>>47974262
>whoever has the power of the media...
>>47974254
Normally, an episodic format would in fact allow for an even better character development than the manga.
In the manga, the characters aren't really developed, they don't have strong motivations or backstory, but at least they have personality and the reasons why they end up doing things are (clumsily) foreshadowed, but in SAC there's even less of all that in spite of the rather long runtime, backstory elements and numerous opportunities to make characters progress a lot and express themselves.
>>47974262
Ok comrade. I for one accept our impending Stalinist system
>>47974312
So you have nothing but what was probably false flag by Donald's own drunk idiot brigade? Okay, cool!
>>47974312
can't tell if you're saying you will be the one jackbooting queers or if you're tinfoilhatting about leftyboots
either way you're a dumbass
>>47974271
Did you forget Chicago?
>>47974349
>What is the nationalist socialist workers party?
>What is the USSR?
There is no tinfoil about leftyboots
>>47974334
SAC was mostly about CotW (Crisis of the Week), not about long-running plotlines. It was basically a cop drama.
>>47974349
Condoning rioting is what gets fascists in power.
>>47974351
>Chicago
>CNN reports "several fistfights"
>significant violence
>actually being this cucked
No wonder you are a Trump supporter.
>>47974326
Goddamn they all look so young.
>>47974366
>>47974338
>Being this ignorant
Do you honestly believe that the USSR was politically left? This kind of kneejerk reaction to the very concept of socialism is why America is fucked.
>>47974404
>kneejerk reaction
Propaganda works, bro.
>>47974366
Imperial american consumer capital with slightly liberal candy coating is fucked up, but its not leftist at all really. You don't have a leftist party, you have a right and a centre.
>>47974341
That's a start did you follow his campaign in cali at all?
Actually a better question is why do you only intake left wing news?
>>47974292
To me SAC stands up pretty cool even now. Would have bombed hard with bizarre visuals.
>SAC has nothing in the way of wonder,
It's a detective story, anon. It's a plus.
>>47974404
>collectivist
>atheist
Not left.
Wew lad
>>47974398
That's what being in power is.
>>47973880
>IRS is used as a weapon against right wing interests
That's like saying the cops are being used as a weapon against anarchists. You are not as persecuted as you think you are.
>>47974440
>is a Christian Libertarian who actually believes his own bullshit smells nice
kek
>>47974372
without actual drama.
Not that the manga had a lot of it. Everything was treated quite lightly in it and Motoko often came off as very careless and whimsical. GitS is a grab-bag of a franchise, with lots of elements that don't work together and that's very scattered in scope.
Compared to that, SEL is laser-focused, intense and to-the-point but without being as unsubtle as GitS.
>>47974418
Which, I guess, was my original point anyway. "We can't have punk because the punks get mocked". Can't have a working political system that most of the civilized world uses because that gets scare tacticked.
>>47973533
This post is amazing. I lost count of all the buzzwords and meme lingo about halfway through.
>>47974432
yeah but your HPL analogy is wrong.
>>47974457
>libertarian
Fuck off. Every theory the left has had had been tried and has been drowned in an ocean of blood tears and bodies. The desire to live without being forced to do things at gunpoint is not bullshit and has no smell. I fail to see why Ponting guns at people makes things better
>>47974464
Well, why is GitS a franchise and Lain only ever got a 13 episode run? I think you are confusing the Firefly effect with "a good show"
>>47974456
Neither are you. Thanks for proving my point though.
VA-11 Hall-A just came out last week, and is an excellent game about being a bar-tending bystander in a cyber-punk setting.
>>47972841
Never, because even the hardest up group is gong to be able to buy an ak74 if they want a Russian model of assault rifle these days. Not to mention that your much better off with a scuffled smartphone a generation or two old than any firearm for industrial espionage.
>>47974499
Everyone desires that, but libertarians live in a fantasy land where the current conditions are somehow not borne directly out of political violence and the way to a glorious libertopian future is to remove all regulation and taxation, but otherwise protect the status quo of property distribution, because property rights are sacred.
nanopunk when
>>47974499
>muh freedom ain't free
The ability to pursue your desires in the tradition of liberal humanist freedoms are given via oceans of blood, tears and bodies. By pointing guns at people and taking their stuff.
>>47974554
Both libertarians and communists make broad and wildly inaccurate generalizations about human nature, and both have failed based on how wrong those generalizations are.
>muh non-aggression principle, surely everyone will play by the rules and not use force to take what isn't theirs
>muh common good, surely everyone will be satisfied working to advance others instead of themselves
They're both extremes for a reason.
>>47974604
The difference is that the values you claim I hold are successful, the ones I alluded to have not been and based on their track record with likely not be.
>>47974647
That's why I'm an anarchist.
>>47974372
the crisises were all connected and tied back to the common theme and central villain
>>47974512
Yes but even each individual part of the franchise is clunky and flawed.
None of them is as good as Lain.
The world is cyberpunk.
The President of the United States has personal command over a global program of robot assassins who target suspected terrorists in neutral countries, with no oversight.
And Donald Trump is about to inherit this.
>>47974708
Ah, yes, when right and left are both wrong, the best way to go is down the shitter in a fit of contrarian nihilism.
"The strong take what they want from the weak" isn't a very good societal principle for omegas on 4chan, I hope you realize.
>>47971907
It's called "realistic fiction" nowadays.
Except slightly less shit.
![syn_screenshots_exec_search_04[1].jpg](https://i.imgur.com/MwJzicv.jpg "syn_screenshots_exec_search_04[1].jpg")
The low-life, high-tech cyberpunk had a good run and even though I do miss the Neuromancer-era stuff, I think that the new wave of cyberpunk should go high-life, high-tech. As high as possible.
Picture somewhat related.
>>47974835
>And Donald Trump is about to inherit this.
Someone who is largely against intervening in foreign wars, you mean? I'm no fan of the man, but I'd trust him with the drones more than I trust Obama with them.
>>47974835
>robot assassins
They're just guns.
People thought the crossbow was the devil too, but we managed to keep the world from destroying itself since it was born.
>>47974700
No they're not.
And you can't even get other people's values right.
Most of the fucking world is Democratic Socialist, you idiot
>>47974870
The man who's repeatedly advocated war crimes, you mean?
Fuck this, this thread was supposed to be about Cyberpunk. It's turned into /pol/ tinfoil hattery and believing the bullshit. I'm out.
>>47974870
We'll see.
He uses the language of a democrat when he talks about this stuff; it's all about surgical strikes and special forces and we can do it for half the price in half the time. In practice this means unilateral attacks on suspected enemies of America in neutral countries.
>>47974892
They're not just guns.
If every crossbow in the land could be aimed and loosed by one man, you'd be getting close to a comparison.
>>47974838
That's just the way it is. I'm not making a moral judgment, but that's just what is literally always happening.
>>47974708
Anarchy will only last as long as one guy promises some other dudes who are discontent with the status quo that they should band together.
>>47974940
There are military bases with drone pilots, dummy. They aren't autonomous.
This is a story which I might view as a sort of "modern" take on cyber-punk.
https://www.academia.edu/19469409/Crash_Space
>>47974969
Anarchy isn't a system that can "last". It is just the way things already are. There aren't rules that you can't band up together for collective benefit.
>>47974940
Drones have pilots. The President doesn't just type "kill Al-Qaeda" into his desktop and they all lift off and search and destroy on their own.
>>47974286
PA bleeds into Cyberpunk (or vice versa) in a few sources, notably the original BGC and its related OAVs before the Sentai vibes kicked in. Realistically the two are on the same technological path, with one a response to active military evolution and the other a response to a lot of military amputees.
Just like we're seeing in its early stages now.
>>47974979
I understand that.
It's still removing people from the chain. Just like people don't consider strategic bombing to be as bad as driving through a city shooting civilians, people don't consider drone strikes to be as bad as conventional air-strikes.
Gunpowder was a different KIND of weapon than crossbows. Drones are a different kind of weapon than non-drones.
>>47974870
Why do you assume that Trump wouldn't use the drones against people in America?
>>47974979
>>47975008
I have no idea where you two got that he was saying anything different.
>>47974940
To be fair, the democrats as of late have been warhawks. But Trump goes beyond that and wants to commit war crimes. At least he isn't Ted "let's see if the sand glows" Cruz Missile.
>>47974404
>Do you honestly believe that the USSR was politically left
It's Very Very Damn Complicated. One of the examples of why you can't use left-right spectrum outside of describing specific political platforms.
That's before we touch the subject of USSR politics having THEIR OWN lefts and rights, even more of them than US politics...
Also, on the topic of Cyberpunk - I think it just burned out. Outside of Internet and cellphones, everyday life haven't changed much in the last 40 years, and corporations are not rising in power but rather holding on to the status quo they obtained quite awhile ago.
We're not living in Cyberpunk, it just gotten stale and uninteresting.
>>47975080
>If every crossbow in the land could be aimed and loosed by one man
>robot assassins
He seemed to be pretty clear in his belief that drones are literal T-800 robots that can all be given an order to kill by the president, and will march through sand, snow, and sea to annihilate their target.
>>47975054
I don't think you understand why. It's not about making it more morally justifiable. It is about making it safer for American soldiers to project lethal force. Drone strikes are cheaper and don't risk highly trained American pilots in enemy territory, conventional air-strikes do.
>>47975120
He's not talking about remote drones.
He's talking about the drones who work in the military.
>>47975200
lol
>>47975103
>We're not living in Cyberpunk, it just gotten stale and uninteresting.
That really depends on how broad a scope you accept under the Cyberpunk label. Kornbluth and Pohl had some of the corporation side pegged in 1958, with a followup (now identified as "satirical" to conceal how prophetic it was) in 1984.
Cyberpunk was a warning. We weren't listening.
>>47975103
I don't really agree. Life has changed a lot. Technology and information are very much a part of every day life.
>>47975120
Eh. While >>47975200 is a bit silly about it, the military does sort of follow orders regardless of whether or not they should. Even when the top brass was saying things like "don't ask don't tell is stupid" and "holy fuck what are we going to do with all these tanks", nothing changed.
>>47971907
because cyberpunk is what would happen if every character in star trek was geordi laforge and wesley crusher, and repeatedly using deus ex machina technobabble to get out of any and all problems makes for lame boring non-game media, since in RPGs there's rules to follow and a chance that reversing the polarity of your dilithium chamber or whatever does not save your dumb ass.
>>47975327
A professional standing army isn't a horrifying new development, I promise.
>>47975185
Making it safer is part of what makes it more justifiable.
The inability to see the results of the attack is part of what makes it more justifiable.
And we can't forget, it's targeting /suspects/ in /neutral countries/. Even if it were a conventional air-strike program that was being run by the President with no oversight, the nature of it's targets should be enough to oppose it.
1. cyberpunk is literally starting to happen, there's a dude with a robot arm that has an attachment thats a tattoo gun. corporations outnumber the government in terms of popularity and respect.
2. we are getting a video game by CDPR. It's a massive, big budget game. There have been 3 shadowrun video games, they JUST kickstarted a new one called copper dreams.
3. Blade Runner 2 next year
>>47975360
It's a horrifying development that happens in all societies, as they age.
>>47975360
A professional standing army just waiting for its Caesar to come claim it is kinda terrifying though.
>>47975393
>3. Blade Runner 2 next year
dear god please no
>>47975255
>1984
>prophetic
Vhat?
>>47975327
>I don't really agree. Life has changed a lot. Technology and information are very much a part of every day life.
I mentioned Internet and cellphones. And I think that it's pretty much it. The rest is just maymay drift coming with time.
>>47972059
shit takes time. do you want them to pull an asscreed and grunt out mediocre shit?
>>47975360
>The point
.
>Your head
My point is that we shouldn't give control of said army to a nutso.
>>47975444
You're misunderstanding how big of an impact cellphons and the internet have had on society.
>>47971907
Because Apple wants to keep selling you technilogy from 13 years ago, not questioning what technology could be 10 years from now.
Which is ironically, pretty cyberpunk.
