Why do most westerners prefer the low fantasy grimdark settings like Warhammer, Warcraft, and A Song of Ice and Fire where the general populace is down and dirty and dying of the plague, compared to JRPG-tier fantasy with floating cities, airships, magic crystals powering everything and high saturation screenshots?
How about you take a step back from your own conclusions and not pigeon hole entire cultures there fucknut?
>Warhammer
>Warcraft
>low fantasy
Senpai, please.
>>47850374
Western people are fat and happy. They turn to grimdark and sad fantasy to explore the emotions they do not experience regularly. Japanese people are depressed and suicidal so they turn to cheerful and upbeat fantasy to escape the reality the don't wish to face any longer
I run JRPG-tier Planescape with floating cities (Sigil amongst others), airships (spelljammers), and magic crystals (all kinds, including the Society of Sensations recorder/sensory stones).
The image to the left is what an average arcanaloth looks like in my games. This is what arcanaloths are supposed to look like:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/yugoarca.php
Am I doing a good job?
>>47850374
>warhammer
>warcraft
>asoiaf
>low fantasy
Are you fucking stupid?
>>47850439
Well shit there it is
The Japanese made Berzerk and Dark Souls, which are like today's go-to examples for grimdark settings.
It's because the stories that most inspired western gaming take place in the ashes of an anime setting, where you explore airships that have crashed to earth, run from ghosts trapped inside cracked magic crystals, and occasionally cry over a photograph from when the world was in high saturation. These early stories had a very grimy aesthetic, to contrast the cool shit that had obviously once existed in the same place. Later stories have copied the aesthetic, but left out the preceding anime high age.
>>47850448
You again, can I tell you just how jealous I am of your players?
>>47850374
>Warcraft
>Low fantasy
>Grimdark
You're not familiar with WoW, then?
>>47850439
except japanese people put out a shit ton of grim and/or dark media
>>47850374
But Japan is what's keeping Wizardry alive... Also there was Grimgar of Fantasy and Ash from Japan recently, too.
>>47850374
You should probably learn what words mean before you use them, instead of just saying them, hoping people will take pity on how fucking dumb you are and explain the words to you.
>>47850562
I have only two players for such games nowadays, and I would prefer to keep the games at that number.
Here is a screenshot of the NPC roster for one of the two campaigns I run. Pardon the low screenshot quality. The tokens look much better when zoomed-in.
>>47850374
Neither Warhammer nor Warcraft are low fantasy; they "were" dark fantasy before the retardedness of AoS WoD wrecked them and turned their aesthetic into something terribly gaudy.
>>47850743
I like to think that I do a reasonably good job with some of these tokens.
>>47850743
I see. Are all those fox people Arcanaloths?
>>47850807
No. Some are guardinals:
http://www.lomion.de/cmm/guardina.php
Planescape has a surprising amount of animal-people outsiders. There are bear-people warden archons and ursinals, and arcanaloths might be hounds, jackals, or sometimes foxes like Shemeshka.
>>47850374
I'm trying to make a real high fantasy setting, but trying to set up metaphysics and cosmology, and have natural phenomena, societies and economies that follow the implications of the former, have at least the minimum relatability to be comprehensible and make sense in general without leaving any huge plotholes is proving to be quite a challenging task.
>>47850374
because in a world so sugary and perfect their problems cant be that bad
>>47850374
Metal music
>>47850857
Shemeshka? You mean that washed-up old hag? By the looks of that razorvine salad she wears on her head, I'd wager she's some kind of jinkskirt for the al-mir'aj guys. I think the razorvines actually took root and grew into her brain, because only a mentally defective arcanaloth would step outside looking like he/she does. She's not welcome in Gehenna.
Pic related is clearly the superior yugoloth. You should be grateful you can even look at this drawing of Lady Malvolia, you poor berk. Entire armies of yugoloths would fight and die just for a chance to kiss her feet.
>>47851417
Which one are you again?
>>47850743
My dick tells me I would love to be your player.
>>47850374
>Warcraft
>low fantasy
>grimderp
Sure thing, champ.
>>47850374
>warhammer
>low fantasy
>grimdark
The moment GW tried to make fantasy grimdark is the moment the game died.
>>47850374
You're mixing "low fantasy" with "dark fantasy." Something can be both "dark fantasy" and "high fantasy." For instance, Dark Souls.
>>47851449
Neither of them! I'm... uh... just a fan of Mal-Mal. I bought her entire line of clothing at Golden Volcano. My useless bezekira boyfriend went wild and couldn't keep his paws off me when I wore the same military uniform Lady Mal wore at her show. If you any taste at all you'll buy from her clothing line too.
Meeting her changed my life. Lady Malvolia is going to make Gehenna great again. I'm a #MalGal now. You should become a #MalGal too before it's too late!
>>47851696
If I touch that tail, will you die?
>>47851754
That would be exteremely fluffy
>>47851074
Japan actually had a pretty good heavy metal scene back in the late 80's. I generally use albums from that era when I run Jovian Chronicles.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=NEJf5SBgKhw
The answer to OP's question, or course, are JRPGs like Dragon's Quest, Skies of Arcadia, Grandia, etc. are lighter in tone (or just light aesthetically) and that tends to work into their tabletop games on some level; Wizardry and what it spawned were BIG deals over there so it's pretty influential. Whereas trends in the west are based more off of Hollywood blockbusters and Tolkien-esque fantasy novels. Which, past the 80's at least, take themselves more seriously.
>>47850374
There's pretty much a 100% chance you ARE a Westerner for asking this dumbass question, so chances are even by thinking of posting this you proved yourself a fucking idiot.
>>47851847
>mfw I can never take chinks seriously because they always seem and sound to me that they will start holding hands, frollicking in a circle while singing about friendship and sharing
>mfw no face
Also I'm not exactly /mu/, but that sounds like rock to me.
>>47850374
> I'm 12 and what is Berserk?
>>47851417
>>47851696
Are you responsible for this?
http://suptg.thisisnotatrueending.com/qstarchive/120/
>>47851847
>>47851074
What metal's here today? Daisuke Ishitawari, Naoki Hashimoto, 9mm parabellum bullet...
>>47850763
Warcraft is not dark fantasy since W2
AoS is still arugably dark
>>47851801
You're a kawaii foxgirl
>>47850374
>Warcraft
>low fantasy
>>47850526
Berserk is niche and Dark Souls word of God is meant to emulate western fantasy.
>>47852120
If any other series went on a hiatus for over a decade it'd be niche too.
>>47852081
For you, sempai
>>47850374
Don't know about you, but I love the aesthetic of JRPG-tier fantasy. Granted, I often find something to dislike, but floating cities, airships and the like are really, really awesome.
I do dislike certain exaggerated character tropes within japanese stuff and there's always something to rail against when there's a story. That doesn't prevent me from loving the shit out of the good ideas.
I like my fantasy both ways and as a mixed cross between the two, as long as it makes some kind of sense and is a joy to interact with, while you play with the group. (Death, trauma and other negative shit can be enjoyable.)
>>47850374
>with floating cities, airships, magic crystals powering everything and high saturation screenshots?
Warcraft has literally all of those and in greater amounts than most JRPGs?
>warcraft
>warhammer
>low fantasy
OP is so full of shit, that I can feel reality crumbling around me.
>>47852054
>WC3
>Not dark fantasy
What's your benchmark for darkness? I'd say the main character slaughtering thousands of innocent people as he descends into madness and becomes the most powerful evil entity on the planet is pretty dark.
>>47850743
Filthy weeb.
>>47850577
And it was shit.
>>47853571
Fuckers like you are why /tg/ and /v/ are shitholes. The whole "weebs are shit" meme needs to die.
>>47850374
Because Japan still has the ability to dream and imagine instead of being so fixated on realism. They aren't restricted by arbitrary rules that bind our reality. Also because Japan generally has more inventive and creative settings/premises than the west.
>>47850743
>>47850797
>>47850818
>>47850857
My collection of anime tokens numbers a staggering 273 files and 208 MB. This rises to 320 files and 246 MB if I include my monster tokens.
What would be an ideal place to upload all of them to?
>>47850374
Because when everything is magical and fantastical, it stops being magical and fantastical to behold.
>>47854260
Bullshit.
>>47850743
send me to the lower planes
>>47854994
Gehenna is full. There's no space for slaves. We don't need you. Stay out!
>>47853571
Butthurt baatezu detected. What's wrong? If you devils could just loosen up and relax maybe you'd learn to have some fun, but you're so concerned with your stupid laws and regulations.
>>47852023My GM made the quest, but that is my character!
>>47850374
>implying
I like jrpg fantasy more.
/pol/ called in sick so /a/ covered for them today?
>>47854234
Mega?
>>47850374
Not all JRPGs are high fantasy, floating cities, crystal-powered magitek and cute girls with bubblegum-colored hair.
I've been wanting to run a campaign based on or inspired by the Dark Souls series for a while.
>>47855734
b-but brown girls
>>47850374
Warhammer has organized colleges of wizards that burn battlefields, a multitude of active Dwarven holds, Ulthuan and you call it low fantasy?
>>47850438
>Senpai, please.
Warcraft is the shiniest of shiny. Didn't you just watch that movie like every other nerd in the world? It was bigger in China than it was in the US and you're whining that it isn't as cool about Chinese Video Games?
>>47850438
>Senpai, please.
ASOIAF is pretty grimdark, but that's because magic has ebbs and flows and the whole point is that high magic went away for a few hundred years and everyone forgot.
You should check out Burning Wheel and Torchbearer for actual grimdark fantasy
>>47855836
literally what?
>>47856016
/tg/ gets "trolled" by racist cretins from /pol/ on a regular basis, but rarely see this weeaboo garbage
>>47856108
Where do you think you are senpai?
>>47856108
Anon you're doing that thing where you trick yourself into believing everyone "on /tg/" has the same opinions and taste as you.
So then you act like anyone who likes different things must be an external invader instead of people who just don't like the same stuff as you.
>>47855922
But Dark Souls is the Nips' take on Western Fantasy.
>>47856108
>racist cretins
>weeaboo garbage
You got a problem with Japanese people or something? Don't like other people enjoying their culture? Does the cultural appropriation trigger you?
>>47854047
I'm a weeb, and I think we're shit. The problem is non-weebs thinking they aren't shit and that weebs are the foreigners to 4chan.
>>47856226
>cultural appropriation
literally kill yourself famalam
>>47856206
I've always wondered, why can Japs do better takes on our folklore than we can do takes on their folklore?
>>47856238
>The problem is non-weebs thinking they aren't shit and that weebs are the foreigners to 4chan.
A nice way to put it anon.
>>47856238
The only ones who unironically call themselves weebs are either memers or normies
>>47856267
They're more willing to not have everything hard grounded in "reality" and western folklore tends to contain some ridiculous shit.
>>47856267
>Jap
reminder that jap is a racist term
>>47856288
I like to use it self-deprecatingly. I'm a dakimakura-hugging, figure collecting, plamo building weeb.
>>47856317
Where the fuck do you think you are?
>>47850374
Why does no one use low and high fantasy right? They don't mean low and high power, they don't mean low and high magic levels.
Low fantasy takes place on Earth, or otherwise the same universe as our own, with the addition of fantasy elements, like World of Darkness. High Fantasy takes place in an entirely different world, like Forgotten Realms.
>>47850374
Dnd isnt low fantasy very much depending on the edition
also theres exalted which is now really good
>>47856267
They generally do it extremely terrible.
Dark Souls is a exception, standing a literal pile of shit.Generally, a lot things is done in a way where things are mentioned "Spear of Odin: Gungnir", but it never DONE.
Dark Souls might be the only game I have played where it goes balls deep in Norse mythology, and it actually goes there. Most games stop at refferancing that shit exists, you rarely see Hugin and Mugin or physically climb Yggdrasil.
Even for something like Boktai, its just a referance. You are not actually climing anything resembling a world tree, and the general design is generic weak shit.
The west is generally the same as the east. The strongest IPs are Dungeons & Dragon(no actual world building or deconstruction beyond cool shit), and other system or books adopted into things.
The STRONGEST IP in the west for Fantasy is currently Game of Thrones and Witcher, but are adoptations of existing IP, where things that look good in original format can't translate well into a Interactive Medium.
>>47856364
I'm not a huge fan of self deprecating humor so that's probably why I don't like the use of the term weeb as a catch all for anyone likes anime or Japanese related things
>>47856472
That's the thing, stuff like Dark Souls, Dragon's Dogma, and a few others are examples of Japanese interpretations of western folklore.
What's the western example of interpreting Japanese folklore, without it being well, for a lack of a better word, shallow and cringeworthy?
>>47856480
I can see that, but hey to each his own. I myself draw the line at self-deprecating humor when it's just being used to cover up self-loathing.
>>47850448
>recolored Ran Yakumo
ORIGINAL CHARACTER DONUT STEEL
>>47856530
Legend of the Five Rings, maybe the Avatar series (The Last Airbender and Legend of Korra)?
>>47856530
I never saw Westerns devs trying anything with Japanese folklore. Except for Dominions 4, and it's not a RPG.
>>47856614
Oh, you meant WITHOUT it being shallow and cringeworthy, my bad
>>47856530
hi, its clear youve played neither of those games. While on the surface Dragons Dogma, and the "souls" series of games appear western aesthetically, the lore and themes of the story are in no way western at all, they are extremely eastern and thus are in no way interpretations of western folklore, but rather eastern stories with a western coat of paint. For an example of the reverse of this check out Jade Empire.
>>47856614
Avatar feels more like mainland Asia (China, Tibet, Alaskan natives) than it does Japanese.
>>47850374
I like horror games, So having eldritch abominations that terrify the players are better suited towards low fantasy settings.
>>47856644
>hi, its clear youve played neither of those games.
Except I have. Care to explain why you think they're just eastern stories with a western paint? Another interpretation of things I enjoy is good in my book.
>>47850374
Honestly because Jap fantasy makes no sense, no one acts like a real human being, the technology is heavily skewed in a way that makes it obvious it wasn't organically invented and the entire affair often reads like someone serialised the setting as a TV show, ran it far beyond the original setting as envisaged by the creators and then they just started making shit up to keep it going.
>>47856726
Care to give examples?
>>47854090
Ken-san, please.
>>47856726
Nice sterotypes, faggot
>>47856652
m8
The Fire Nation is literally Imperialist Japan
>>47857158
The aesthetics and culture of the Fire Nation are still very much Chinese.
>>47857158
In fact, because of that, a large portion of the Japanese wasn't a fan of Avatar because the Fire Nation brought back some bad memories that they'd rather suppress, making them very uncomfortable.
>>47856683
alot of the themes are not very western, cycles of death and rebirth, very neutral settings in which there is no real good or bad. The main character has a heavy weight of fateful duty on them which they must carry out without complaint, there are alot of very asian and specifically japanese concepts in these games, they are not really representative of any western folklore im familiar with. This is of course not a shock they were both made by Japanese so. If you watch alot of anime youd see a lot of similiar concepts honestly the only thing that makes them feel not so japanese is the heavy coat of medieval European paint over everything.
>>47856644
>Jade Empire
>tfw they're never going to make another Jade Empire or anything like it
>they don't even care enough about porting it to modern OS
>>47857211
Not at all. Fire Nation nationalistic doctrine was wayyy different than imperialist Japanese doctrine. Stop reaching.
>>47856726
>makes no sense, no one acts like a real human being, the technology is heavily skewed in a way that makes it obvious it wasn't organically invented
So, high fantasy.
>>47857223
Cycles of death and rebirth are something the feature heavily in Egyptian, Celtic, and Germanic myth (Sun chariot symbology). Especially Celtic. The fated and burdened hero is also something that's also universal in human mythology.
Those are not exclusively Japanese themes.
>>47857285
They are very Hindu and Buddhist themes though.
>>47856644
>For an example of the reverse of this check out Jade Empire.
>Literally Wuxia: The Game
>Western folklore
What are you even on about
Your "explanation" in >>47857223 doesn't even make any sense because you didn't mention any eastern or western concepts
I mean obviously games made by different people from different cultures are going to reflect that person's culture in some way but you've done an incredibly poor job of explaining literally anything here
>>47857307
That still doesn't make them exclusively Oriental. And Hinduism is something that is descended from the Aryans of the Vedic period. It's not what we could view as classically Western, but it certainly does not make it a purely Oriental cosmology.
Cycles of life, death, and rebirth are something that are universal in human spirituality.
>>47857420
While I definately agree, cycles don't really exist in a lot of modern world religions outside of Buddhism
>>47857454
Cycles were also a thing in Moorcock's work. I'm pretty sure Miyazaki said he read Moorcock as a kid.
>>47857499Yeah but Miyazaki is irrelevent nowadays and is a shit director
>>47856644
Dark Souls 3 IS THE MOST JAPANESE game in the soul series.
From the Katana faggot who resides in the starting area, The Storm Ruler & Nameless King, Curse Rotten Greatwood(!), Wolnir(!), and a lot of the world building.
Contrast to Dark Souls 1, which literally bleeds Odin, Yggdrasil, literal Niddhogrs at the roots, how Magic works, and a gigantic bunch more.
Dragons Dogma is western only in setting, the few lore details don't stick deep either. Its not that western, but it tries with its Greece Roman monsters.
Its something that looks like it was made as a unlicensed Berserk video game, in many ways.
>>47857307
Buddhism is ASCENSION, not cycle.
Hindu is EVERYTHING.
>>47857542
How are the Rotten Greatwood and Wolnir Japanese? Genuine question.
>>47857566
>implying the death and rebirth in Buddhism isn't a cycle, despite being a temporary one
>>47853162
Exodar and her sisters are literally Magic Crystal Powered Air/Space Ship Cities, also made of mostly crystals.
>>47852765
>>47857599
This my friend, is LITERALLY Wolnir.
LITERALLY.
Cursewood is even more blatant than that.
>>47856558
How the hell else am I supposed to cover up my self loathing senpai?
>>47857328
I mentioned jade empire because if you remove the coating of chinese paint over it, and replaced it with western knights and shit. The overall plot wouldnt really seem out of place, the actual plot and story elements feel more western in function and design than a game that would be made by actual chinese people or some other Asian culture
>>47857285
Egyptian, Celtic, and Germanic myth have not had a serious influence on western folklore for sometime, being that Christianity supplanted all of that for a good 1000 years, and especially during the time periods the two games mentioned aesthetically represent.
>>47857696
Wolnir is a very big skeleton, you don't have to take inspiration from folklore or mythology to come up with 'very big skeleton'.
>>47850374
Theres a lot of stupid crammed into this post. I dont think you're trolling, you're just not very bright.
>>47857696
DS1 had giant skeletons too ya know. Hell they had an area just FULL of giant skeletons.
>>47857530
Do the children on this board honestly think this?
>>47854234
Mega or mediafire, because goddamn it I need those fucking tokens, you weeaboo piece of shitp-please?
>>47857818
If you watched any anime or had any knowledge of the medium you would think the same
>>47857764
>The overall plot wouldnt really seem out of place, the actual plot and story elements feel more western in function and design than a game that would be made by actual chinese people or some other Asian culture
ACTUAL SPOILERS HEREA major plot point is literally how your teacher trains you to have a fatal weakness in your fighting style that nobody but him is skilled/aware enough to exploit for the day he has to kill you
That doesn't strike me as particularly knightly or western, not in the least
>>47857773
But you do. The only mythologies with Giants and Skeletons both existing in the same mythologies is Norse and Japanese.
But thats not what sells it, its his stance and how he moves.
Then is things like Nameless. Its very blatant.
And its not a bad thing.
But its very blatant.
Be noted that most Japanese games don't even get to this level of internal mythological systems.
>>47857846
>Anime
Are you talking about that old man who draws cute girls and hates his son?
Cause we're talking about the middle-aged man who likes Berserk and making action RPG's.
>>47857764
>The overall plot wouldnt really seem out of place
No, Jade is one of the few that understood a cornerstone of what Chinese mythology is about.
The Tl:dr would read "out to cure a curse on China", but it would fail to mention how the curse was put, or how its maintained.
>>47853544
The choice is between Arthas and Illidan is how you like hell on Azaroth? Hot or Cold?
>>47857850
Yeah, and to add to that.(Like this anon said, spoilers)The way the great drought was solved and the fallout of it(putting the world out of balance and shit) seems more Chinese that "Western"(which is so general as to not mean anything, really).
The weebs in this thread scare me.
>>47857915
Why? Because "OMG WEEBS ARE ON 4CHAN!?" or someother reason cause if not then LOL
>>47857846
I'm literally laughing at your life, anon.
>>47857915
And you disgust me. What a coincidence.
>>47857859
>But you do.
No, you really don't.
>The only mythologies with Giants and Skeletons both existing in the same mythologies is Norse and Japanese.
You don't need to take overt inspiration from any mythologies at all to come up with the ideas of really big people or skeletons. And when you have both of those things in place then adding them together isn't exactly hard.
>But thats not what sells it, its his stance and how he moves.
He is being eaten by the abyss and is trying to crawl out, how else would he move?
>>47857846
Is this something to be proud of nowadays? Genuine question.
>>47850468
ASoIaF is pretty low, as these things go. Not the lowest for sure but especially in comparison to the War* franchises.
>>47857870
Well in his defense, /m/ hates him pretty irrationally because of AC 4/4adespite them being good games even if they took the series in a new direction.Other people might hate him for a perceived 'focus' on Souls style games despite the fact that, if you even glance at From's history, they tend to focus on specific franchises for years until they can't go anywhere new with them mechanically moving on to focus on something else.
>>47857990
Low fantasy is set in the really world or a very similar proxy.
ASoIaF is not.
>>47857980
I'm personally proud of it because it's something I'm passionate about. Is that wrong?
>>47857859
>Norse and Japanese only
You came to the wrong neighborhood, Jason.
>>47857530
I mean Hidetaka Miyazaki, as in Souls game director.
Moorcock was really popular with japanese fantasy nerds,
>>47857990
by the common literary definition, ASoIaF isn't low fantasy
by vidya/roleplaying/tabletopwar game definitions, it's fairly low fantasy
low/high fantasy exists solely to start nerd arguments
>>47858118
It's like real/super robot arguments over on /m/
>>47858060
Greek doesn't have giants. You would know if you paid attention at all.
>>47858413
the fuck do you call Polyphemus then
>>47851990
70+ years of extreme anti-war rhetoric and a collectivist society, combined with the artfag wanking of MUH PEACE, will do that to you; or at the very least, it will do that to your media.
>>47858447
cyclops :^)
>>47858413
Who did the Olympians fight in the Gigantomachy, then?
>>47856614
>L5R
>not shallow and cringeworthy
>every single person and organization is a flat loud caricature
>the capital city is named Dad's House
>>47858413
I thought giants were part of the offspring of Gaia and Uranus, like Titans and Cyclopes.
In fact, isn't the word giant derived from Greek?
>>47858654
Yes and yes; you just dun ate bait, son.
>>47858691
So what you're saying is that instead of being mentally deficient, t'were merely play acting such?
>>47858502
Not Giants :)
>>47858502
big guys
>>47857668
not to mention Dalaran and the two airships
>>47859025
Alliance and Horde started mass production of airships after Wrath, there's way more than two now.
>>47859077
the two from Icecrown are the only ones that players have significant interactions with so it's hard to remember
>>47857870
Both those guys suck.
>>47850374
It's because we can relate to it, Senpai. I, for example, work in a steel mill for 10 years and I'm developing lung cancer. My neighbour got evicted last month and he has a really big family. Now he lives in a communal shelter and eats in community soup kitchen. The gypsies are suffering from lead poisoning. The immigrants are marching through the streets and rob and rape. My entire town is ruined from the shelling from the war that happened 25 years ago. My unemployed wife and kids live on my minimum wage and some cash we get from my retired mom. Our apartment doesn't even have heating during the autumn. My car is sitting in the garage for a year now because I cannot afford to repair it. The taxes are extremely higf for everything (25%) and the healthcare is getting cut by the new tyrannic government. I only hope that I will make enough money and live long enough to see my oldest daughter go to college.
I hope this explains why we corelate with suffering serfs.
Greetings from Croatia.
>>47859282
Install a fucking heat pump. Its a lot cheaper for heating.
€200-300 to remove the heating bills is fucking nothing.
Also this brings up something important: Wouldn't Asian Fantasy be more glorious, because of the concept of FACE?
Because of Face, one is suppose to ignore and don't draw the shitty things.
Then again, Warhammer is British High fantasy, and Brits do enjoy working class suffering
>>47857223
Cycles of death and rebirth are not uniquely Aisian. These themes are very common in Pagan societies, and many Native American myth cycles as well.
It wasn't until the Abrahamic religions took over that the idea of death and rebirth was transformed from an eternal cycle into a singular event.
>>47850743
>no male characters
While my dick would be pleased I'm not sure I could take it seriously at all. At least get some more girls (male)
You do you though anon, hope you're having fun
>>47858769
No, I'm saying he's a retard, but a baiting retard.
Something I've read before that may or may not be true is that manga style art is focused on 'perfection'. Your typical anime protagonist doesn't have any physical flaws and their features are usually only animated by a few key features. It's why one of the major ways of telling apart anime characters is their hair style; there needs to be something big and loud about the character to separate them from the rest. Actually, big and loud can be used to describe a lot of things about manga; it's very much about grand gestures and force of will, especially in shonen and seinen manga.
As well as that, manga tends to over-animate characters. The lack of subtle facial features means expressions need to be magnified to be noticeable. It's why manga frequently incorporate those little icons that denote certain emotions (the X shape on the forehead for anger, for example). It doesn't help that in real life Japanese society is pretty formal, though that's changing. It means you've got a lot of people with pent up emotions that don't get to release them in a healthy way. Hence, explosive personalities.
Western art, on the other hand, emphasises the flaws of the character because we see them as if not marks of pride, at least marks of individuality. You wear your scars with pride, and so on. Contemporary art, that is. Classical art is a lot different. We prefer characters that don't have one or two defining traits that make up the core of their personality, and if we have explosive personalities in our fiction they're usually in the minority (or are villains).
I'm not sure how much of that I actually believe, given it's trying to describe two entire cultures with all the variation within that implies, but it makes sense to me on the surface of things.
>>47860343
I take a lot of what I hear about manga with a grain of salt, since so little of it actually leaves Japan even in this modern internet age. Unlike anime, where almost all of what is currently air will get subbed, manga is much more niche for foreigners.
People's fantasies are what they usually don't see on a daily basis. That's why westerners always love to play in exaggerated collectivist dystopias or lawless wastelands where everything's grim and a life is worth nothing because only few have any sense of self, while easterners love to play in carefree, bubbly JRPG settings where things like the power of love are enough to kill the alien psychic fetus monstrosity and everything all works out in the end.
>>47850374
>compared to JRPG-tier fantasy with floating cities, airships, magic crystals powering everything and high saturation screenshots?
Except the most popular Western Fantasy game series is The Elder Scrolls, which has all those things.
>>47859282
>The gypsies are suffering from lead poisoning
Well, at least there's a glimmer of hope in all this misery.
>>47860687
Yeah but they really don't want to admit that anymore.
>>47854234
Mega.
>>47850374
Because westerners like things that aren't absolute garbage?
>>47861610
Is that why they collectively hate themselves so much?
>>47850374
>Why do most westerners prefer the low fantasy grimdark settings like Warhammer, Warcraft
>Warcraft
>low fantasy
Bro are you high? Warcraft has portals, demons, elves, succubus, succubus hookers, monkey men, and MURLOCS!
>floating cities
You mean like Dalaran and the floating Necropoli such as Naxxaramas
>airships
You mean like Zeplins, the alliances airship, Dalaran and Naxxaramas?
>Magic crystals powering everything
You mean like soul shards and the Exodar? (Draenei space ship)
>>47861610
JRPGs aren't garbage because they're more upbeat and colorful though. It's because they tend to be linear, repetive and have very bad dialogue. Latter is partly because of translations and exceptions do exist.
WRPGs are gritty and realistic while JRPGs are positive in face of direness and relies on symbols to tell a story, even their worldbuilding is of symbols.
"Western" is half the world. "Japan" is one small country. Pretty sure that has something to do with it.
>>47860894
Stop reminding me that TES and Fallout are dead because they are pandering to fuckwits that buy into the 'gritty' marketing gimmick. Even though Bethesda sucks at doing even that.
>>47862571
Pretty sure you're an asshole.
>>47863304
Alright, not that guy but what the fuck triggered you in that sentence?
>>47863446
Just because something is popular by the majority doesn't mean it's good. Also I hate this implication that Japan is somehow inferior for expressing a different artistic and narrative style.
>>47850374
Personally speaking, I like I high fantasy more than low fantasy grimdark, when it comes to settings.
When it comes to videogames, however, I'd (generally) much rather play a low fantasy grimdark western RPG than a high fantasy JRPG.
Has nothing to do with the high/low fantasy, and everything to do with the quality of the gameplay.
For instance, Western RPGs tend to give you the freedom of deciding what your character does, and often lets you design them, whereas the JRPGs tend to have scripted plots you just follow along like reading a book, with very rare opportunities for choice.
As for the general trend when it comes to things outside videogames, I blame the videogames; but also the books and movies.
The number of good quality high fantasy properties is far lower than the number of high quality low fantasy properties.
>>47863486
None of that was said or implied though.
>>47860343
How about it if you lurk on /a/ for manga recommendations to read?
>>47863536
It definitely was though.
>>47863575
Nah dude. It's just a fucking asymmetry.
>>47850572
Because they have more experience in that field so it is easier.
>>47863645
You are fucking retarded.
>>47862573
They're more dead because Beth makes their games to perfect for the first like 10 hours for reviews and gives half a fuck or less after that.
>>47860578
Manga is so easy to find translations of, though. It's just not in bookstores.
>>47863778
>>47863575
>>47863486
>>47863304
Weeaboo autism in action.
>>47864387
>implying I'm a weeb
Keep deluding yourself idiot.
>>47864412
>Thinks they're not a weeb.
>On 4chan.
Anyone have that one Alice in Wonderland ripoff picture for this site? It's very fitting here.
>>47866160
I'm not a weeb because I actually know things about Japan and the anime industry. I'm not disillusioned with Japan or the Japanese culture nor is my knowledge of the Japanese language broken. I'm not a weeb because unlike weebs, I'm knowledgeable about things relating to Japan.
>>47866193
Is this bait?
There's no way a sensible, non-autistic person wrote this.
>>47850374
So I guess you just want Warcraft then?
>Floating Cities
Dalaran
>Airships
Literally airships
>Magic Crystals
The Draenei, Burning Legion, Arrakoa, and Blood Elves
>>47866254
Aye, this be bait bro.
>>47866254
>>47866296
>implying I'm baiting
holy shit you retards will try to justify anything that isn't your opinion by saying the other person is autistic
>>47854090
>Japan is more creative than the west when it comes to settings
Anon please I can only laugh so much.
>>47866591
For the sake of having an actual conversation, could you explain your reasoning? Legitimately interested here.
>>47866591
Please name one Western setting that outclasses a Japanese one in originality and creativity.
>>47856267
Protip: they can't, unless you consider half-understood Catholic imagery "better takes".
>>47866674
You clearly haven't watched enough anime.
>>47858413
>no Giants
>what are Cyclops
>>47866542
Dude, watching a bunch of Gaijin Goombah doesn't exemt you from being an autistic weeb like everyone else here. We are all the same.
>>47866843
What happens if i dont' watch anime and just fap to hentai?
>>47850374
Speaking as a Westerner, I have no idea what you're talking about. Well, outside of ASOIAF, anyways.
Warcraft has all those things, and Warhammer is essentially the cover to every metal album. To say nothing of everything else I know of in fantasy.
So stop acting like "grimderp feudal fantasy setting" is the only setting the entire West makes, and stop pretending Japan only makes "crystals and 1000 year old children fantasy".
>>47866843
I'm a Japanese Language and Culture major with ten years of studying Japan's language, history, and politics. I'm also Japanese so if you want to keep on telling me that I'm a weeb I'll laugh in your face.
>>47866881
Fuck off weeaboo.
>>47863486
>being this autistic and triggered over nothing
lmao
>>47866881
>I'm such a weeb I've literally paid tens of thousands of dollars to learn about a culture nobody actually cares about beyond anime and videogames
k e k
>>47866881
Then why're you here instead of 2chan? I smell a lie to make themselves feel more important.
But hey, even if you're telling the truth, you're still an autist just like OP and me.
>>47850374
The shit posting in this thread is unreal
>>47867029
Is it bad that I am interested in a country's culture and society?
>>47867038
>liking something makes you an autist
Ok.
I don't go on 4chan because I would rather spend time on a website and community I know and am familiar with.
>>47867051
Welcome to 4chan my friend. We're all autistic weebs here.
>>47867072
It is if you're seriously going to break down over a term as innocent and literally meaningless as 'weeb'.
>>47867051
you've seen nothing.
>>47867099
It's just annoying to see the term weeb as a catch-all for someone that likes Japan/Japanese things instead of someone that is just a newfag that doesn't know shit about Japan.
>>47867117
>instead of someone that is just a newfag that doesn't know shit about Japan.
It's never meant that. It's ALWAYS been a catch-all.
>>47850763
>>47852054
Warhammer Fantasy Battle was never really Grimdark. There were actual good guys and competent people in charge, and the good factions actually worked together to some extent. People had a chance, it wasn't literally waiting for chaos or tyranids to fuck everything up.
>>47867117
Bro, in the old days it might have meant that, but now it -is- a catch-all term that we've taken as our own. Just like how Americans take the term Yankee with pride even though it started off as an insult from the British.
>>47867136
You are retarded. It meant a white person that didn't know shit about Japan or Japanese culture.
>>47866651
Noumenon.
>>47866651
Kill Six Billion Demons counts right? Its mostly inspired by french scifi but its still western i think.
>>47859282
How did you get so good at English, living in Croatia? Especially since you're a muzhik.
>>47860614
Except people's "fantasies" aren't limited to the fantasy genre. The West has been on a "gritty realism in fantasy" kick for some decades now. Other genres in Western media can be very lighthearted and hopeful. Just look at Pixar.
Also, there's that Vikings show, which seems to be like a weird, inverted "we wus kangs" for white people. "we wuz rape apes"
>>47866651
I got you covered kouhai
>>47866651
Any form of media created before Japan got involved in putting anything out?
>>47867848
>>47868237
PIIIIIIIIICE OMNOMNOMNOMNOM
>>47867279
>France
>Not west
waat
>>47856267
They don't. Japanese takes on western folklore go as far as grabbing a few names because they sound cool, or distorting it beyond recognition so it better lines up with the rest of the shitheap of mass-produced entertainment
>>47850374
guaranteed replies.
also, war* settings, low fantasy? maybe look up the definitions of words before you use them, assbag.
>>47862573
>Stop reminding me that TES and Fallout are dead because they are pandering to fuckwits that buy into the 'gritty' marketing gimmick. Even though Bethesda sucks at doing even that.
Bethesda does its job very well. Its just that their job since TES V has been to package sandbox power fantasies in the guise of gritty realism. Because that's what normies want.
>>47868368
Come to think of it that also applies to western takes on japanese folklore so I guess the real answer is that content creators generally know fuck all about the world outside their bubble
>>47858413
READ A BOOK
>>47850374
Because the heroes are better, the adversity they face is worse, even from the setting itself.
>>47867051
This must be your 2nd day. Welcome, you'll be here forever, just like the rest of us.
>>47850956
You don't have to do that. Take a look at Jap high fantasy.
Everything is the Jetsons but with crystals.
>>47866651
Not in any particular order.
Eberron, Witcher Girl Genius, Black Company, Discworld, Conan The Barbarian, Endless Legend
Just off the top of my head.
>>47857850
So he has purposely trained you wrong, as a joke?
>>47869066
If you consider installing a kill switch into people a joke, then yes
>>47869066
No. He purposefully trained you wrong so that you'll do all the heroic questing for him, find all the missing pieces of the holy talisman, then he could kill you with a flick of his wrist and claim divine power for himself rather than having to actually fight you.
>>47868411
That pretty much covers it.
>>47850374
>weebs wondering why westeners don't like there high fantasy (mary sue) shit
>shitty anime girl as opening post
>>47869293
>Posts dumb as fuck meme shit
>Expects anyone to care about his opinions
>>47869365
>Pot calling kettle black
>>47853162
Morrowind has part of a city floating, along with Dwemer ruins powered partly by magic crystals and partly by steam power which lasts forever, possibly due to magic crystals.
>>47869442
Except in TES, the crystals are given an explanation. There is a reason they are being used to power something rather than
>They're magic
And on top of that, they have their origins in the lore. You read up on it, and find out why things work. Most lore in JRPGS are lucky to be given a brief summary.
>>47854234
Slam it in a .zip and shoot it up on Mediafire or Mega. You could also break it down into a couple of smaller .zips and use pomf or something.
>>47866651
TES. Japs seem to agree with that.
I was writing a slightly butthurt answer to >>47858028, but suddenly it came to my mind I don't even know who the fuck ever decided that.
So I did a quick googling, and while I didn' find what I was searching for (mostly because my search was half-assed), Wikipedia came up with something interesting:
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Low_fantasy#Role-playing_games
"For their own purposes role-playing games sometimes use a different definition of low fantasy. GURPS Fantasy defines the genre as 'closer to realistic fiction than to myth. Low Fantasy stories focus on people's daily lives and practical goals ... A Low Fantasy campaign asks what it's like to live in a world of monsters, magic, and demigods.' The book acknowledges the literary definition of the genre with 'some critics define 'low fantasy' as any fantasy story set in the real world. However, a real world setting can include the kind of mythic elements this book classifies as high fantasy.' "
So I think we can end this dumb argument (ok, I know this is never going to happen, but anyway) by all agreeing the literary definition doesn't apply to the gaming world. I guess what they call "low fantasy" is what we most of the time call "parallel worlds".
>>47850374
Because Western RPGs try to build a world you can imagine anyone living in. What would a farmer do in those settings? Pretty clear. Could you be one? Oh yeah. What does a soldier do? What can he expect to fight? Can you imagine yourself as one? Easy.
Eastern RPGs, and I'm talking about other Asian nations not just Japan, focus more on creating a world of that is nothing like the real one. Why create a setting where anyone can live in? You hate this part of your life. You want to be in a world where you are the hero, and get weapons twice as big as your body, and flashy spells that let you do anything. Who care how anything works? There's a demon king to slay!
tl;dr
Western settings are for immersion.
Eastern settings are for escape.
>>47869566
TES is like everything wrong with donut steel settings, though. It's disgusting from nearly every angle and prominently features both furfaggotry and scaly degeneracy.
The devs are incompetent SJWs and the world is positively revolting.
>>47869632
>The devs are incompetent SJWs and the world is positively revolting.
Where is that coming from? I can't think of anything that would make someone think that unless it's something from ESO since I wouldn't get anywhere near that
