>>47790245
Has anyone written up spells for 3e?

Can somebody explain how lunar castless and chimeras work? I get the sense theres more to this than being wyld tainted

is it part of the curse?

>>47790778
Sort of. It's permanent Limit, which is essential to how the Great Curse works.

If my character was to have an alternate identity, how would you recommend handling artifact weapons/evocations? I'm a Single Point stylist so the only way I can really pump my offense potential is via Evocations, but obviously it'd be pretty blatant if both my normal self and my secret identity as Batman were to be using the same reaper daiklave.

>>47790245
Anyone done a let's read of the backer charms?

>>47791108
An Evocation or innate ability for it to change to a different weapon, or something inconspicuous.

>>47791108
Frankly, it'd be pretty fucking obvious if both you and your super self were using the magical version of Single Point. Mortals only have access to the mundane skill version. You see someone teleport across Medium range for an attack, shooting devils across the battlefield at folks, or whatever, there isn't going to be much doubt about which motherfucker it is.

Anyway, I'd recommend having your cover identity only use mundane weapons and charms that are non-obvious, and have the artifacts and flashy shit be what your super-identity uses, the same way you're not going to see batman throwing knives or fighting twenty people at once, even if he has the skills capable of it.

>>47791284
Yeah, Bruce Wayne deliberately gimps himself and makes him lose fights, unless he can be really sure no one's watching and he can get away with a few 'lucky' hits.

>>47791108
>I'm a Single Point stylist so the only way I can really pump my offense potential is via Evocations

I'm being half-facecious, but why would you even want to pump your offense potential when you already have the biggest damage output of any combat build in the game?

>>47791284
>Frankly, it'd be pretty fucking obvious if both you and your super self were using the magical version of Single Point.
The particular circumstances help obscure it a little; I'm not pretending to be Joe Mortal in my normal identity or anything. More... one is Batman, one is the Kingpin, kind of a deal.

>>47791355
Accuracy and post-soak damage.

>>47791386
>The particular circumstances help obscure it a little; I'm not pretending to be Joe Mortal in my normal identity or anything. More... one is Batman, one is the Kingpin, kind of a deal.
That's dumb. Don't try to use a hyper-iconic fighting style in both identities and expect to have them remain distinct identities.

>Accuracy and post-soak damage.
How about Parry, homie? You really don't have to fucking worry about hitting hard.

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ello lads if ww2 era planes became common or relatively common in creation, what would happen with halta? their whole thing is that they have more airships than anybody
would this mean they have some sort of air fleet

>>47791647
>halta
>their whole thing is that they have more airships than anybody
Are you thinking of the Haslanti League?

>>47791684
yes my bad lad

How do you figure out what the right amount of motes to spend in combat is?

>>47791696
In that case, no, their whole thing is that they have better mundane technology than everyone else. For example, aside from airships, they also have crossbows and feathersteel - and those are just prominent examples. The Haslanti League has built its economy and nation on the back of exploring First Age ruins and trying to reverse engineer any mundane technological advances they can out of them.

>>47791746
Trial and error.

>>47791746

In a fight overall? How bad do you want to win? A Solar can turn himself inside out to almost assuredly obliterate his target, but he's going to wish he hadn't the moment the second gunner shows himself.

On a given attack? How bad in the hole are you init-wise? How long has the fight been going on? Does he have any particular defenses up; are you gonna plow through them or hold off until they expire?

etc. etc. etc.

You may as well ask "how many pieces of bread should my character eat."

>>47791746
You regenerate 5m per turn, so the right amount of motes is 5+(Mote Pool/Rounds of Combat) mote per round. For example, if you expected a combat to last for, say, 5 rounds, and you had a 50 combined mote pool? You'd be able to spend 15 motes per round for five rounds before bottoming out.

Importantly, that's counting your defenses too.

>>47791430
>That's dumb. Don't try to use a hyper-iconic fighting style in both identities and expect to have them remain distinct identities.
It's not really hyper-iconic in the context of my game. There's a school teaching it, another local Exalt with the style, etc.

>How about Parry, homie? You really don't have to fucking worry about hitting hard.
What about it?

Single Point lacks much of anything in terms of accuracy boosters, and has zero stuff to pump post-soak. Soak monsters and constantly clashing fucks are currently pretty big weak points in my build.

>>47791203
....a what? just download the pdf and read it yourself

I haven't been around anything Exalted related for a month or two. What is /exg/'s consensus on the Backer Charms?

I'm reading them now, about halfway through, and the only thing that has come to mind is renewed sadness and confusion over how many dice trick Charms we got in the core book when there were clearly more awesome things to be had.

>>47792089
Some ok, there's some real dogshit and Morke is a raging retard.

>>47792062
Don't have good mechanics knowledge, so wondering which are good, op or suck

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>>47792001
>constantly clashing fucks
YOU RANG?

I love the clash branch in the Melee tree.

Also, am I reading it wrong, or does Thunderclap Rush Attack let you clash a Round 1 initiative bomb decisive attack (i.e. the sort of attack Single Point wants to use) regardless of your initiative? And you can make that clash a withering attack to use your accuracy bonus against the incoming decisive with no accuracy bonus? Seems like it's easy to have a lot of fun with that charm.

Hey anons,

Been amusing myself by coming up with Lunar mechanical themes based of Morke/Holden's theme of monster/man duality. Plus general themes of adaptability, survival, instinct, and general over specifics.

What do you think of any of the below hooks of playing lunars?

* Lowered, but exponential training times, e.g. essence 1 charms can be learnt in a night, essence 2 in a week etc.
* Charms can also be unlearnt in the same amount of time - but the xp given can only be spent on more charms - call it instinct xp.
* Any instinct xp in the unspent pool acts as a bonus to both the spirit shape and warform abilities.
* One attribute is Bestial, allowing you to buy up / sell charms on battle level times - e.g. 1 turn for essence 1, 2 for essence 2. Unlike solar's supernal ability, you are still limited to your essence.

Since Lunar charms will be only in 9 attributes, this allows the Lunar wide flexibility in one particular charm,

The other mechanical idea I had (partially cribbed from Jukashi's Lunar Quest) is that Lunar's excellencies allow doubling the attribute die only for a high cost - representing unfettered power over the solar finesse.

What do anons think?

>>47792001
>not really hyper iconic in my setting

theres like...800 people in the entire world who even *could* use it right?
_______________________________
so in 2e if I take hive mutation twice do I become a colony of spiders? or do I die? because the text is a bit iffy on that... also how would injuries work?

>>47792652
>* Lowered, but exponential training times, e.g. essence 1 charms can be learnt in a night, essence 2 in a week etc.
This is cute, I like it, but remember that training times are kind of peripheral to a lot of groups, and XP costs matter more.

>* Charms can also be unlearnt in the same amount of time - but the xp given can only be spent on more charms - call it instinct xp.
A lot of STs allow retraining already, so I'm not sure granting it as a mechanic is really a good precedent. Maybe pursue it further, or try a different tack on the same idea? Plus it feels very Alchemical-y, and I'm not sure that's how Lunars should roll.

>* Any instinct xp in the unspent pool acts as a bonus to both the spirit shape and warform abilities.
Thisss might be interesting? It certainly makes sense that Lunars would be able to spend their Lunar XP on things like this, in addition to what Solars can spend Solar XP on. I'd have to see execution.

>* One attribute is Bestial, allowing you to buy up / sell charms on battle level times - e.g. 1 turn for essence 1, 2 for essence 2. Unlike solar's supernal ability, you are still limited to your essence.
Not a fan of this. A lot of STs just allow this to happen anyway if it's suitably dramatic (the buying anyway), and changing out your Charm loadout mid-fight is going to really drag things down, especially for players with choice paralysis.

> is that Lunar's excellencies allow doubling the attribute die only for a high cost - representing unfettered power over the solar finesse.
What's this supposed to mean? Remember that we already have a really good Excellency for Lunars as-is.

>>47792652
sounds interesting enough to wait for you to give me a pdf so i can see how it turns out, but i don't wanna help ;)

>>47792907
> A lot of STs allow retraining already, so I'm not sure granting it as a mechanic is really a good precedent. Maybe pursue it further, or try a different tack on the same idea? Plus it feels very Alchemical-y, and I'm not sure that's how Lunars should roll.

My orginal thought was an elder scrolls mechanic such that you get and lose charms based on what attributes you use the most, but would require tracking usage of 9 attributes, so scrapped it.

Thought of the unspent lunar xp acting as a bonus to allow easy xp flow between a lunar's human and animal forms - allowing an intellectual user to sacrifice in the short term their intelligence charms for a huge bonus - ala one winged angel form.

I agree the 3E quick character Lunar excellency is pretty good, but I was trying to think of way of increasing its power in return for no fine control - full power or nothing.

Alchemical / Lunar wise they have a lot of similarities already, but I see their differences in that Alchemical need to construct their charms, and have a support network, whereas ideally, Lunars would adapt to their current situation by being able to pick up the charms as needed.

E.g. you have a lunar as a recurring boss following you and as you move from the wild to civilisation she slowly adapts more and more.

Thus Lunars main advantage would be their unsupported versatlity and flexiblity out of the gate.

Do anons think all Exalted should have their own advancement gimmick like Solars supernal charm? E.g. DBs can buy high essence charms by sharing them among a group, or infernals can buy high essence charms for a terrible price?

>>47792114
I'm through it all now. Mostly; I skimmed some of those Ride and Sail Charms. Not likely to ever be relevant for me.

So... what's up with the Fastball Special Charm? That's a maneuver my group has employed since forever. Why exactly does my Zenith that can already juggle small houses and punch a dude hard enough to send him two hundred yards back and through a brick wall require an additional Charm to throw a consenting ally one rangeband?

>>47792967
Eh, wasn't thinking of developing it any further, just been trying to think of novel exalted mechanics on daily commute.

If you are looking for 3E fan splat books,
someone's done them for Sidereals, including sorcerous working style fate weaving:
https://forum.rpg.net/showthread.php?782421-Exalted-3-Sidereals-Where-Fate-Has-Led-done-with-first-pass-of-charms-What-should-be-next

>>47793147
>Why exactly does my Zenith that can already juggle small houses and punch a dude hard enough to send him two hundred yards back and through a brick wall require an additional Charm to throw a consenting ally one rangeband?

YOURS doesn't. The backer who requested the Charm does, however. Maybe he has a stricter ST, or maybe he wanted it to be codified specifically.

>>47793147
Technically I guess you could get rid of all charms, and have their effects just be Gambits or high difficulties - Mage style sphere magic applied to Exalted.

>>47790953
thats what i thought, thanks.

so treating the mutations won't really help then.

>>47793147
What were your thoughts on the new Social charms? Burecracy, Performance, Presence, and Socialise?

>>47792855
>theres like...800 people in the entire world who even *could* use it right?
Dragon-Blooded can use it, so no. Mortals can use it (less magic ninja crap), so double no.

>>47792855

No, there's billions. Just like there's billions of people who know how to sword, but only ~300 who can sword spectacularly well.

Any mortal can learn Single Point, its just not mechanically any different to learning generic swording. Fluffwise, they'd be executing the same moves as the Solar, but theirs would be pale imitations of the Charm-enhanced attacks.

Also, DBs can learn Single Point, so even talking about the Charms, there's, at minimum, tens of thousands who could know them.

>>47793353
Bureaucracy:

Honor-Instilling Mantra: Another Ability 5, Essence 2 Charm in an edition that tells you resolutely not to min-max, then heavily rewards you for doing so.

Pattern-Exploiting Commerce Spirit seems kind of pointless. It only hits a city block around you, so you're already telling your GM "I'm looking for X kind of person" and hoping for fiat to put X kind of person within a city block of you. Without the Charm, you're telling your GM "I'm looking for X kind of person" and hoping for fiat to put X kind of person... slightly closer to you than with the Charm. It doesn't give you any new kind of permissions. It doesn't give you power in the mechanical OR narrative sense.

If it said, instead, "You put out word that you're looking for X kind of person, and THEY WILL show up, regardless of where in the world they should be." it would be a really cool Charm with significant narrative weight. It would also make an awesome Cecelyne Genie/Spacebending themed Charm for Infernals.

Creation of Adamant Specie is cool. I like it. There's some unnecessary demon hate in there, but the concept of the Charm is awesome.

Spectacle-Inciting Order reduces an entire awesome story, about a clever Solar using guile and wit to set up liaisons with spirit courts and Raksha nobles in order to create a scenario where they're able to unconventionally use their mercantilism skills to solve a problem into... press Charm button, get packaged result without effort or narrative.

>>47793745
>Honor-Instilling Mantra: Another Ability 5, Essence 2 Charm in an edition that tells you resolutely not to min-max, then heavily rewards you for doing so.

You mean it is too low essence / high ability for its effect?

>>47793925

He means the Solar Charmset is very top-heavy, when it comes to Ability prerequisites. Something like 1 in 3 Charms require a 4 or a 5 in your Ability.

>>47794019
hm, would it break the game at all to decrease ability prerequisite by 1 or 2 only? I thought the minmax issue was really for attributes rather than abilities

>>47794076

Not the original complainer, but my broad rule was as follows:

1) Set every Charm's Ability prerequisite to no more than its Essence prerequisite + 2.
2) Of the Charms that were already 3/1, set any with no prerequisites to 1/1, and any that had one Charm prerequisite to 2/1.

I haven't gone through and actually mathed out what this does to the Charmset numerically, but it does provide a solid ceiling; if I toss a 3 into a non-supernal, I know for a fact that I can buy any Charms I might be interested in for a while.

>>47793353
Performance:

Glorious Solar [Bagpipes]: Okay. Sure.

Seventeen Cycles Symphony: After making a big deal in the core book about how workings cannot be dispelled, and then making an even bigger deal in their forums about how anyone who thinks workings should be dispellable is bad and should feel bad, here's a way to dispel workings. Neat. It's a pretty cool Charm.

Drama-Fueling Ardor: A cool concept - give the people acting opposite you the chops to almost keep up with you. Then there's some non-Charm dice and bonus mote generation tacked on there because apparently that's what we do in this edition. Dice pool bloat and mote pool bullshit were big problems in the previous edition. So lets create really stringent limitations to prevent it from happening again. Then shit on them as frequently as possible. Also, the second paragraph doesn't DO anything. That's already something that happens in the system. If people like your performance enough to create an intimacy for it, they create an intimacy for it. It doesn't even auto-create an intimacy. It just reminds you that if your performance was liked *enough*, then someone gets an intimacy for it. That's what an intimacy IS.

Divinely Inspired Performance: I don't know, really. If the Charm let you cludge a performance you weren't familiar with well enough to accidentally improvise every line correctly, I would say that the Charm was both very Solar, and also shouldn't exist because it would just be an effect of having a very high dice pool. As it is, it makes you psychic in a way that Sid fate magic or SWLIHN would be jealous of. Kind of gently urinates on or around Solar thematics.

Seven Thunders Voice: Cool.

I'm considering getting Exalted 3E, but have heard horror stories about the mechanics from previous editions. Are Virtues still as weird and easily abused? Is combat still Rocket Tag with Perfect Defences? Do you still need a metric ton of dice in order to play?

>>47794155
>I'm considering getting Exalted 3E, but have heard horror stories about the mechanics from previous editions.
3e is a dramatic improvement. Imperfect, but good.
>Are Virtues still as weird and easily abused?
No.
>Is combat still Rocket Tag with Perfect Defences
No.
>Do you still need a metric ton of dice in order to play?
Kind of. The strongest "resting" dice-pool hovers around 14 dice at absolute tops, and charms can push that up to ~25-ish, but it's not like 2e where that 25-die pool is what you were using all scene, it's just on your big fuckwrecker attacks.

>>47794155
>Virtues
Don't exist, folded into intimacies
>Is combat still Rocket Tag with Perfect Defences?
nope, save or die combat heavily reduced in favor of combat "tempo" before damage

>Do you still need a metric ton of dice in order to play?
Can you buy 50 d10s for $20 from amazon?

>>47793745
>an edition that tells you resolutely not to min-max, then heavily rewards you for doing so.

Really? The admonitions not to min-max seem to come from a particular sub-breed of bad-wrong-fun fans, not from the actual rules. I mean, they explicitly have a sidebar title "Yes You Can Take A 5".

>>47793353
Presence:

Poised Lion Stance: I'm not sure this does anything. Core pg223 already says you can use social influence in combat as an action. It says nothing about you having to place it in a flurry, and all Poised Lion Stance says is that you can use social influence in combat without a flurry.

It should probably say you can take a non-social combat action and a social combat action on the same turn without a flurry. But that's not what it says.

Holy Touch: I'm not even sure what Presence's theme is anymore. Maybe this Charm is fine. Maybe it's terrible. I don't know. I reserve my opinion.

God-Heeling Gesture: What even IS PRESENCE? We're going back to 2nd edition's "I cure the sick person by punching the least god of his disease". With this Charm, you can bring stuff back to life by yelling at a God's domain hard enough. That's an actual example.

Unnerving Solar Presence: Effectively, another big wad of non-Charm dice.

Voice-Empowering Aspect and Divinity Conferring Touch: The devs are trying so hard. They've flung so much shit at the concept of enlightened mortals, but people want them so badly, and the devs want them so badly, and they're just... they're like "Okay, maybe just the tip. No enlightened mortals. But... just the tip, baby. Just for a second." Personally, I find the whole concept fine. But I would've preferred the game to just acknowledge that some players are going to want to uplift mortals, and tackle it with some unified mechanics. Right now they're just kind of all over the place.

>>47794155
>Do you still need a metric ton of dice in order to play?

Most of our players rock up with 20 dice. Then we either re-roll some, or borrow from another player for those instances that we need to exceed that number.

>>47794155
>Do you still need a metric ton of dice in order to play?
No, you just play on roll20 and type /roll 69d10sd>7.

>>47794346
>They've flung so much shit at the concept of enlightened mortals
They flung shit at mortal enlightenment camps where you could mass-produce your totally awesome army of Mortals 2.0 and transhumanify Creation because mortals are so funny and useless they really should thank you for that. Now there ARE ways to uplift your followers but those are relatively high Essence and require commitment. Also, I guess being "all over the place" is a feature because simple, unified systems are prone for abuse. Now it's mostly case-by-case so if you want it badly you can just ask your ST and think about something.

>With this Charm, you can bring stuff back to life by yelling at a God's domain hard enough. That's an actual example.
Eh, I think the bringing-back-to-tilfe example is kinda stupid because it contradicts the nature of death in Creation but the Charm itself is fine. You are basically entering a big standoff with a god where he uses his miracles trying to inspire awe in puny mortals while you make dramatic gesture and nullify them. It COULD be placed in Occult but if you stress the need for dramatic actions and clash of charismatic, divine figures then it's mostly fine.

>Core pg223 already says you can use social influence in combat as an action. It says nothing about you having to place it in a flurry,
Except it does? I mean, it doesn't explicitly say you HAVE to but it mentions social actions can be placed in flurry as normal. Which implies that if you want to swing a sword and use social action you have to use a flurry because otherwise that just wouldn't make sense.

>>47793547
>No, there's billions. Just like there's billions of people who know how to sword
There aren't billions of people in Creation, let alone billions who know how to use a sword. The estimates I've seen put Creation's population between 150 million and 300 million humans.

>>47795433
Citation please

>>47795491
I don't have a citation, but Creation has less than double the landmass of Earth with significantly lower infrastructure and population density, according to the fluff. Based on the calcuations I've seen others do, it puts the Creation's population at less than 500 million at the absolute highest.

Having even a single billion of people would be absurd, based on what we know about Creation's pre-modern population density.

>>47795531
Oh, right, so despite you presenting it as a definitive fact of the setting, it's just some numbers you pulled out of your arse and wafted around under everyone's noses for your own pleasure.

Fuck off.

best merits?

>>47790245
Why did 3e add ten new exalted?

>>47795672

Any that don't provide a direct dice bonus are pretty solid. The social ones are especially good (command, contacts, etc.)

>>47795672
Artifact (3) to buy a Belt of Shadow Walking, then spend two ability dots and a Charm to pick up Spirit-Cutting Attack, allowing you to hit people from a position of near-invincibility.

>>47795683

It didn't.

Exigents, Getimians, Liminals, 2 Lunar satellites, and the Spoken. Six are all that have ever been discussed in any seriousness, and there's no guarantee that all of those will even reach print.

>>47795672

Mechanically, artifacts, hearthstones and command give you nice crunch-points to hang stuff off (evocations, war charms, etc).

Fluff-wise, being a regional power (influence), being richer than Croesus (resources), or knowing everything of note that happens in your domain (contacts) is pretty cool - it just doesn't give you quantifiable mechanical advantages.

As the other anon said, the ones that give minor mechanical buffs (+1 join battle, +1 health level, etc) are pretty crap, unless you're really trying to max the shit out of one particular thing - and even then, they're more likely taken to be a completionist than for their actual, practical value.

>>47795599
>The estimates I've seen put Creation's population between 150 million and 300 million humans.
Why would you ever think I was presenting it as a direct citation, angriest little faggot? You're bizarrely furious about someone pointing out that the idea that a barely-medieval setting with huge swathes of wilderness couldn't possibly have a population resembling modern, urbanized Earth.

As far as canonical information is concerned, though, even the setting's largest metropoli - like Nexus, for example - have populations of 'nearly a million people' at the very highest end. Every other city, other than the Imperial City, has even less than Nexus. Lookshy, canonically, has less than 200,000, yet is still considered a large city with a large population.

For context, Constantinople had a population of up to 800,000 people in about the 9th and 10th centuries AD, which would be a good point of reference. During those centuries, the world supported about 230 million people.

The idea that Creation, with its canonically small cities, canonically sparse towns and villages, canonically expansive wildernesses, and lack of modern farming, infrastructure, medicine, and sanitation would have a population measured in the billions is flatly absurd.

150-300 million people is a good and reasonable population estimate considering the limited size of the cities, the uninhabited wildernesses, the roaming fair folk, hungry ghosts, and dangerous elementals outside of civilized areas, and so forth. If anything, it's a little on the high end.

But having even a billion - let alone plural billions - of people in Creation isn't just wrong, it's fucking dumb.

>>47794658
>Except it does? I mean, it doesn't explicitly say you HAVE to but it mentions social actions can be placed in flurry as normal. Which implies that if you want to swing a sword and use social action you have to use a flurry because otherwise that just wouldn't make sense.

Right, we're in agreement in what the standard rules are. The only thing I'm proposing is that Poised Lion Attitude is written poorly.

Here's the entire Charm text (sans the intro fluff sentence): "This Charm allows the Exalt to engage in Presence or Socialize based social influence on her turn during combat without the use of a flurry." All of it. There's no missing context. This is 100% of the mechanical text.

An Exalt can ALREADY engage in Presence or Socialize based social influence on their turn during combat without the use of a flurry. They can stand in combat and, on their turn, say something but not attack, thereby not using a flurry. You don't have to flurry a single action.

They only have to place their social influence in a flurry if they're also using a second, combat action. Which this Charm does NOT address. It doesn't say that you can use BOTH social influence and a standard combat action without a flurry, it only addresses using a single social influence in an action.

I think the intent of the Charm is easily guessed. But it's poorly written. That's all that I'm saying.

>>47795683
Two major reasons, I feel like:
1) Reduces the pigeonholing/"who's that Pokemon" feel of classic Exalts. Exigents in particular do this, but by adding more Exalts in general you get some benefits along these lines.

2) Exalts provide meaningful, dangerous peer level opposition, rivals, support, etc, for other Exalts. They're humans so they're more interesting than gods and 3CD and such. For example, Getimians give Sidereals something to do.

>>47794102
dice hell is somewhat inherent in the system at its core. no real way around it. I suggest using roller programs

>>47795767
It's no wonder your ideas are so shit, when you talk out of your arse like that.

>>47792652

Not a big personal fan of any of these, sorry anon.

>>47795767

Creation has however many people you want it to have. It's sparsity isn't canonical - it's arbitrary. You can fill in as many little kingdoms and city states in the empty spots in the map as you want. Just because the book doesn't explicitly say what's there doesn't mean it's empty - it means it's content is indeterminate.

It may have a billion, it may have only a few dozen million - it depends on the Storyteller, his story, and what he wants it to have. Claiming that you have calculated the definitive population of Creation, and that other people are wrong, because you extrapolated from historical reality to calculate the population of a world of demigods, mythic sorcery and interventionist deities, is ludicrous.

>>47791746
There is no right amount, that's too situational

>>47796786
>Just because the book doesn't explicitly say what's there doesn't mean it's empty - it means it's content is indeterminate.
I'm not in any way suggesting that the locations without canon civilizations are empty of human habitation.

I'm talking about the canonical fact that huge swathes of Creation are overgrown wilderness dotted with isolated villages separated by huge stretches of primeval forests, deserts, and oceans, inhabited by strange monsters, dangerous elementals, and predatory Fair Folk.

Creation is, very explicitly, a place full of enormous tracts of land where no humans have walked in centuries, where humans barely settle, and villages that haven't had outside contact in over a generation.

>because you extrapolated from historical reality
Not just historical reality - the canon populations of actual places in Creation. They don't have large populations - at least unless you homebrew them too. The absolute largest outliers of cities in Creation don't even have a million people, and most canon entire citystates are barely pushing 100,000.

Chiaroscuro, for example, is described as having only a million total souls in the city and all of its surrounding territories combined, and that's easily the biggest city in the South, and one of the biggest in the entire world.

>it may have only a few dozen million
No, that's equally unrealistic. There's a few dozen million just in the described canon locations. Creation actually would have to be empty outside of canon locales for that to be true, which we know isn't the case.

Ultimately, for Creation to have more than a couple hundred million people, it would need to have either massive cities that dwarf even Nexus and the Imperial City dotting the unwritten parts of the world, or be covered in a massive spread of dispersed civilization, with towns bearing thousands of souls over every hill.

And for it to have less than that, it would be nearly empty.

It's not ludicrous at all.

I want to be raped by ma ha suchi in female form in the breeding pits!

>>47796933
>Chiaroscuro, for example, is described as having only a million total souls in the city and all of its surrounding territories combined

So? How many cities are there half the size Chiaroscuro in Creation? A dozen? Fifty? A thousand? There's no canonical number, because Storyteller can add as many as they want, and there's enough landmass to support an essentially arbitrary amount.

> There's a few dozen million just in the described canon locations. Creation actually would have to be empty outside of canon locales for that to be true, which we know isn't the case.

No, we don't. We know there's a whole bunch of space that may be occupied if the ST wants it to be. If you want your story to take place in a world of isolated city-states, separated by vast empty tracts of wilderness, you totally can.

>it would need to have either massive cities that dwarf even Nexus and the Imperial City dotting the unwritten parts of the world
Which it totally can, if you want.

>covered in a massive spread of dispersed civilization, with towns bearing thousands of souls over every hill.
Which it totally can, if you want.

And that's ignoring your excluded middle, where it has numerous, high-density cities that don't significantly exceed the canonical biggies.

There's a region in the East called the "Hundred Kingdoms". Even low-balling their populations at 100,000 (10% of Chiaroscuro), you're getting 100,000,000 just in one relatively-small area, of one direction, with no real notable powers.

Add in stuff like the Blessed Isle, which has a landmass the size of Australia, experiences multiple harvests per year, still has the technological relics of a mythological age, and the capacity to supernaturally enhance its own fecundity, and you could cap a billion easily.

The population of Creation isn't canonical. It can be whatever you want it to be, and telling other people they're wrong because they don't agree with your non-canonical assumptions is, indeed, ludicrous.

>>47797426
>the Blessed Isle, which has a landmass the size of Australia
Two Australias, actually. Yu Shan is the mass the size of a single Australia.

Anyway, I've already stated why I disagree with assumptions that would place the population of Creation anywhere near the billions. It's flatly absurd. Even ignoring the impossible logistics of it and the fact that it flies in the face of canon locations, it would result in a Creation-wide human presence that simply isn't represented anywhere in the fluff.

But as you say, if you're so inclined to have it be that way in your games, it totally can, if you want.

But it's my strongly-held opinion that doing so goes aggressively against both the setting as it's presented by the canon, and against anything resembling common sense.

>>47795818

I think the main point of it was to get rid of the flurry penalty you'd normally get for using a social and attack action each round.

>>47797812
Yeah, obviously. But as-written, it doesn't do that - as-written it doesn't do anything.

>>47797550
>Two Australias, actually. Yu Shan is the mass the size of a single Australia.

I was going by a size estimate off the mapping tool. But that's even more ridiculous - twice the size of Australia, and not fertile? That's bigger than mainland China, with significantly more advantages - like being the cultural and military centre world, and being able to call on supernatural power. And even pre-industrial China had half a billion people.

>>47794476

>Online at PnPRPG's

Defeating the purpose of the game mate.

>>47796014

1) The only thing Exigents did is bloat a setting that quite frankly didn't need them. The original exalted and antagonists fit Creation just fine without adding 80 billion tons of more crap with it.

2) Exalted already had tons of shit to do in terms of peers, rivals, and support for exalts. Gods/spirits/Raksha/fey/akuma provided even more mystery and intrigue than mortals ever did. Sidereals also had something to do in the first place, its called Lunars. You know, since how it was from fucking 1e.

The setting bloat they did is terrible, there is no defending it.

Are there guns in Exalted?

>>47798639

The Exigents are the least intrusive extra Exalt, IMO. At least they keep in line with the original concept of Exaltation - a gods divine power, infused into a mortal, making them a champion of that god.

The Getimians, Liminals and super-surprise Exalt...I don't mind these beings existing, but they don't really seem like Exalts.

>>47798732

Not as such; people in Creation use flamethrowers instead of guns, due to differing nature of the natural resources they have access to (gunpowder isn't a thing; firedust is).

>>47798732

There are not. Nothing stopping you from making them though. Stat blocks are easy enough to do in 3e.

>>47798753
>people in Creation use flamethrowers instead of guns
I think calling flame weapons 'flamethrowers' is a bit misleading.

For me, at least, when someone says 'flamethrower' I think of something that fires a somewhat sustained spray/spread of fire, but that's not really how flame weapons work.

They're accurate and narrow enough that aiming matters and called shots to shoot weapons out of someone's hands is a thing, and they have an instant flash-and-done like a gun going off, rather than shooting out with a spray that sustains.

They're more fire-guns than flamethrowers, at least based on what the latter term evokes to me.

>>47798794

Yeah, but that's too long for an off-the-cuff remark.

I think the closest parallel is shotguns with Dragons Breath rounds: https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=RP4FjODPDFA#t=4m40s

>>47798857
Stupid embed doesn't process the timecode. 4:40 is where they use the Dragon's Breath.

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>>47798732
>Are there guns in Exalted?
Kinda, but think less muskets and more dragon's breath.

See, Creation has different natural laws from the real world. In the real world, gunpowder exists. Gunpowder, when ignited, dumps most of its chemical energy into rapidly expanding pressurized gas, and only some of its energy into heat.

In Creation, though, they don't have any substances like that, or haven't discovered them yet.

Instead, they have something called Fire Dust. Fire Dust looks like something between black ash and ruby sand, and it drifts into Creation on the thermal winds that roll off of the Elemental Pole of Fire, settling onto the dunes of the Deep South. Tribes go out there with long-handled rakes to collect it, like people trying to collect sea salt on the Indian Ocean, with explosive results for improper handling.

But the thing is that Fire Dust works the opposite way from gunpowder. Its energy, when ignited, goes mostly to heat, and relatively little to expanding gas. So, it's not strong enough to drive a musketball out of a barrel at significant speeds, and would probably slag the inside of the barrel from the heat if you tried.

So, instead, they don't use musketballs. Out of the barrel shoots a narrow tongue of flame, which has a limited range before it loses momentum and the flame dissipates. It's still a sudden flash, and in both 2e and 3e at the very least it's been narrow enough to not only not be able to hit an entire area, you can shoot precise targets out of someone's hands with one, with proper aiming.

There are cowboys with flame six-shooters, pirates with flame pistol braces, and even ships armed with flame cannons, but the important thing to remember is that no matter what form they take, they have extremely limited range. They're not for sniping, and they're not artillery pieces, and there's no hiding this kind of muzzle flash.

>>47798872
Are they loud?

>>47798872

>In Creation, though, they don't have any substances like that, or haven't discovered them yet.

And even if it simply can't work using Creation's laws you always have the option to Sorcerous Working it.

>>47798904
I think so. I don't care to go looking up the specifics on how they sound at this time of night, but if they don't make a bigass bang the way gunpowder does, they surely make at least the roaring whoosh of rushing flame.

I expect that the initial ignition and then sudden heat differential does make a gunshot-style bang, though.

>>47798922
For sure. Ultimately, the issue is that nobody's figured out how to make a substances capable of launching a bullet in the manner of gunpowder in a way that's both effective and accessible to mundane folk. Yet.

That doesn't mean that it's not possible. It just means it hasn't been done.

Me, if I was going to try to go that route, I'd try to find some crystallized lightning in the frozen reaches of the North. The guy who figures out how to turn that into rapidly-expanding pressurized Air has my bet for being the guy who figures out Earth-style pressure-guns.

That or, you know, fuck it, Northern long-range lightning-guns to play counterpoint to the South's fire-guns. Lightning crossbows versus flame muskets. Who wouldn't be down for that shit?

>>47797837
We must consult the Moracle to decipher this mystery.

What's the difference between Gods and elementals?

>>47800463
Gods are immaterial, they have defined areas of influence and are responsible for monitoring, maintaining, protecting and growing them. They are byan large unique individuals.

Elementals are material, they are manifestations of one of the elements as defined by the essence of the location they are in. They are part of the natural world, but except at high essence they have no agendas as such, they are more like intelligent animals than people. They have no place in HEaven, but at High Essence can rival many Godly peers.

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Miracle Solar is cute. CUTE!

So is Lookshy supposed to resemble Japan?

>>47798639
Boo hoo, they added more shit to the setting.

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Isn't there a martial art based around flame throwers?

>>47800867
Given that it was the capital of a government called the Shogunate (which, in retrospect, could've just been Exalted's convenient shorthand for "military government"), probably.

>>47800901
Yup. Righteous Devil Style. It's in the Ex3 Core.

>>47800902
It wasn't. Shogunate loyalists post Great Contagion settled there.

>>47800892
Basically my reaction whenever I see someone complain about the new Exalts.

We've had no problem ignoring the splats we dislike for two editions, why must it be such a huge problem here?

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>>47800931
I don't hate the new Exalts, but I can see fans disliking them for taking up dev time that could be used to get their favorite splat out faster.

>>47800978
I feel like it's also sort of an inherent dislike for new stuff. People like the comfort of feeling like they know everything they need to about a setting, and new fluff disrupts that.

>>47801057
Maybe.
But I totally understand the hate for Liminals, they are just superfluous.

>>47801119
They're really not.

Their purpose is so that the GM has something to make happen when your Solar, in the ultimate act of hubris, tries to bring back the dead.

>>47801182
No, their purpose is to be Prometheans, because Holden wanted Prometheans

>>47801189
Hmm, interesting, but actually you're completely wrong, and they're not really anything like Prometheans whatsoever.

>>47801119
I'm not convinced they are. Psychopomp activity and the guarding of boundaries are themes that would most certainly deserve their own splat, and lifting that burden from the Abyssals allows for the latter for fully focus on their Lords of the Dead and Blackguard aspects.

Why do you find them superfluous?

>>47801206
>Why do you find them superfluous?
You said it yourself, most of their themes were Abyssal until this.

>>47801200
Except that's literally 100% what Holden has said, you dribbling retard.

>>47801600
Citation needed.

>>47801611
>Q: Since the Liminal Exalted were first mentioned in Masters of Jade, fans have been very excited to learn more. Anything you can divulge for us about them? (Charisma Bonus)
>A: (John Morke)

>Yes! Liminals are a result of Holden and myself putting a list of “new Exalt” concepts together for 3e. On the list, one of his ideas was for “Patchwork Exalts,” an Exalted-homage to Promethean. It wasn’t much more than that, when I grabbed it and gave them the codename Chernozem, because I was already sure that they were very much tied to the soil as the “element” that links life and death, Creation and the Underworld. I added an origin and a method of Exaltation, and Shearer gave them their name: Liminals. We knew we were onto something and liked them so much we had to tease them in Masters of Jade.

From http://avatarcomic.net/exalted-wiki/Exalts
CTRL + F "promethean"

>>47801657
So they're vaguely inspired by Prometheans. Abyssals are vaguely inspired by vampires and Solars are vaguely inspired by oWoD Hunters. That doesn't mean they're anything alike, and indeed they aren't.

can an st declare an infernal "not yozi enough" force an infernal's player to make his next charm choice one that twists them like "witness to darkness", "cosmic transcendence of [virtue]" or "demonic primacy of essence"? and threaten withhold xp or kill intimacies offscreen if he stalls?


that st would be a shit st right?

(at least primacy of essence still lets my character be my character even if it makes me every demon's bitch...

>>47801686
Absolutely shit GM.

>>47801669

You're the one who loves citations. If you can find a dev quote that says Solars were an "homage to oWoD hunters, and not much more than that", then by all means, share it.

>>47801669
You just got your asshole stomped in, and now you're whining and trying to deflect.

Good show, faggot.

>>47801686
Declare your ST not good enough, force him to stop being shit, and withhold your presence at his games if he stalls.

>>47797426
>There's a region in the East called the "Hundred Kingdoms". Even low-balling their populations at 100,000 (10% of Chiaroscuro), you're getting 100,000,000 just in one relatively-small area, of one direction, with no real notable powers.
That isn't low-balling, anon. That isn't low-balling at all. I'm pretty sure that the average city-state in the ancient Greece, for instance, had a population significantly smaller than that, though admitteldy I don't have a citation for that.

>>47801751
Reminder that IRL populations are useless as a base for speculation, because magic. And the East has no proper winters, is ridiculously fertile and gets several harvests a year from any given crop, instead of one.

>>47801768
And the west is literally impossible to over-fish, and...

>>47801751
>That isn't low-balling, anon. That isn't low-balling at all. I'm pretty sure that the average city-state in the ancient Greece, for instance, had a population significantly smaller than that, though admitteldy I don't have a citation for that.

Well, you'd be wrong. Attica (Athens and its environs) had an estimated population of 250,000 - 300,000 during the 4th century BC. Corinth (just the city, not the surrounding lands it controlled) had a population of almost 100,000 at the same time period - and Creation is much, much more advanced than the 4th century BC.

>>47801844
Rome had some ridiculously high density, but iirc a few plagues cut it way down after the fall and it never refilled

>>47801768
The East also has Fair Folk, rogue gods, shadowlands, the Mask of Winters and whatnot. The Creation as a whole has all kinds of threats and challenges the real world never had, not to mention having a couple of almost-apocalypses in its past. It is possible that the Creation has more people than the Earth had with similar level of technology, but there is no real reason to asume it to be the case. It may be true that there are no canon population numbers for the Creation as a whole provided - though I have a vague recollection of one of 2E books, maybe CoCD: the Blessed Isle, saying something definitive on the matter - but it is canonically true that the Creation is a place where only a couple of cities of a million inhabitants exist, and these cities are considered fuckhuge. Sure, canon is more of a guideline than anything binding, and sue, there is plenty of deliberately left room in the game for STs to mess with canon and add whatever they want. This doesn't mean the canon doesn't exist, though, and what we know about the canon locations and the general state of the Creation can be used to make reasonable, albeit rough estimates about what the global population might be.

>>47801844
>Well, you'd be wrong. Attica (Athens and its environs) had an estimated population of 250,000 - 300,000 during the 4th century BC.
How does the population of the single largest city-state prove me wrong about the average city-state?

>>47801716
It's heavily implied that the Solar Exalted are the predecessors of oWoD Hunters again and again. It's literally on the damn Exalted Wikipedia page. Yeah, it's never made canon, but it is semi-canon, i.e. part of the intent. I can't go find you a dev quote on the subject because WW's old forums got ripped down.

Are Solars, therefore, "just Hunters"? Is that their sole purpose in the gameline? No. The only way you could think that is if you've never had a creative thought in your mind and are thus completely unfamiliar with the myriad changes that take place between inspiration and the final form of an idea.

>>47801736
Fuck off, you retarded little cheerleader.

>>47802033
>It's heavily implied that the Solar Exalted are the predecessors of oWoD Hunters again and again.
Wasn't that aborted halfway through oHunter?

>>47802167
I'm told, though have been unable to confirm, that there's still such references in the Hunter chapter of Time of Judgment, the literal last book in the entirety of the Old World of Darkness.

Which entities count as a Spirit?

>>47802280
Gods, Elementals, Demons, Ghosts, anything de-materialized for the purposes of charms that interact with spirits

>>47800867
>So is Lookshy supposed to resemble Japan?
Japanese Sparta. And then the Realm is supposed to be Chinese Rome.

>>47801200
>they're not really anything like Prometheans whatsoever
Literally the only way they could be more like Prometheans is if they started talking about Pyros and Qashmalim, you blithering retard.

>>47801907

Because the single largest city-state had triple the population we were discussing. And because you cut my comment about Corinth.

>>47798639
Setting bloat isn't a problem. It has never been a problem in any work of fiction as far as im aware. System bloat can be bad as it makes the game harder to play, but there being more to do in a setting detracts from nothing.

>>47801844
>>47801768
>>47797426
>>47796786
>>47795599
>>47795491
CoCD: Blessed Isle page 21, 37, the Blessed Isle has "tens of millions" of residents.

Page 9, even at its peak in the First Age, the Blessed Isle's population was only "more than 120 million."

That is literally the only citation that I can find which paints a picture of the population of an entire region, rather than just a single city.

But the picture it paints isn't one of a Creation overflowing with population, exploding from the support of plentiful food and magical patronage. It's one of a Creation with sparse populations between its limited cities, distant villages scattered through wilderness.

After all, if the Blessed Isle, a landmass the size of two Australias, with three harvest seasons, administered by superhuman demigods and safeguarded against almost all of the magical threats that anywhere else in the world faces has only "tens of millions" of people living there, I find it wildly unlikely that the rest of the world is managing, on average, to do much better than that.

>>47801751
>>47801844
Most 'cities' have historically had populations like 20k or 40k, not 200k or 400k. The latter are incredible metropoli by the standards of most eras in most of the world, while the former are your typical cities, though most modern folk wouldn't see them as anything more than a large town.

>>47802280
>Which entities count as a Spirit?
Basically anything formed out of magical essence. Elementals, gods, demons. Many people - myself included - would add ghosts. I'd personally include Fair Folk in that list too. Plus all of the unique one-off spirits that don't easily fall into one of those categories.

>>47802529
>Setting bloat isn't a problem.
I strongly disagree in general. Setting bloat has been a problem all over the place. When a dev adds a metaplot event that everyone hates, when a freelancer adds a location which makes everything around it stop making sense, when a writer adds a fluff detail which is dumb but forever officially canon after that, it's setting bloat, and it's a real problem.

Writing is at its best when it doesn't get superfluous, doesn't stray too far from the themes and motifs that it's trying to present. But over time, settings can get drowned in irrelevant details, can have their themes drift or even be destroyed as new content is added.

I do not think that 3e has done this.

But it's absolutely a thing to be aware of as existing, because it's absolutely a thing that does happen.

>>47802673
>That is literally the only citation that I can find which paints a picture of the population of an entire region, rather than just a single city.
I think some part of compass south mentions harborhead, which is spread out all over, has 14 million if i remember right

>>47802448
Liminals aren't the same as Prometheans at all. You can repeat it over and over but there's like, two similarities (Frankenstein-undead, people don't like them much), and a whole mess of differences.

For example, they don't aspire to become mortals, which is the central conflict of Prometheans.

>>47802768
>The 12 million Harborheadites live in a triangular country about 800 miles wide and 1,600 miles long—which sounds like a lot, but much of Harborhead is near-desert or jungle-clad mountains. Neither region can support a dense population.
Good find, that's page 83.

>>47802033
>I can only scream and cry because I have literally nothing!

Sure thing, dear.

>>47802782
>You can repeat it over
Anon, I think you're literally the only person who thinks that Liminals aren't outright plagiarism - or, at best, a direct homage - to Prometheans. You're also the only one who keeps repeating your opinion over and over - you've been talking to different people the whole time, based on when new posters entered the thread.

How about you just drop it? Even if, by some weird twist of fate, you're right and everyone else is the wrong ones, you're not going to convince anyone by just repeating over and over again that they aren't Prometheans, for serious guys, come on. After all, just look at this one thing that's different about them, instead of ignoring the massive ways that they're alike!

Just fuck off. Do something else for a while. Accept that you're either wrong, or in an environment where you may as well be, because nobody agrees with you and aren't convinced by your arguments.

Stop banging your head against the wall.

>>47802673
This was also before Creation got a massive size bump, so we have no idea if any of this still is canon.

So, yes, you finding in unlikely means literally nothing.

>>47802841
>This was also before Creation got a massive size bump
No, it wasn't. This was the 2e Compass of Celestial Directions, long after Creation got expanded to its current size.

Please, just find literally any citation which doesn't support the claim that Creation has a relatively low population, because literally every citation offered so far supports the claim.

Like, I get it. If you want to have Creation be teeming with huge masses of people in your personal games, that's fine. Nobody's going to jump down your throat as the canon police because how dare you want big cities with lots of towns between them.

But as far as I can tell so far, it's not canon - Creation having a sparse population and a few metropoli here and there is what appears to be canon, based on literally everything we've seen so far.

>>47802890
...nigga. Look at the map. 3e took another ultra-gigantic jump in size.

>>47801119
I think they're meant to have more in the underworld than ghosts who do nothing ever and the deathlords. They kinda act as the inbetweens before abyssals were around and made sure weird underworld shit didnt eat creation.

>>47802916
>3e took another ultra-gigantic jump in size.
It had the borders pushed out by a few hundred miles. The Blessed Isle, the Scavenger Lands, the Threshold - they're still to the exact same scale as before. There's just more space along the edges.

>>47802890
>Like, I get it. If you want to have Creation be teeming with huge masses of people in your personal games, that's fine. Nobody's going to jump down your throat as the canon police because how dare you want big cities with lots of towns between them.
You're the one sperging out that people dare to disagree with you, dude.

>>47802836
>After all, just look at this one thing that's different about them, instead of ignoring the massive ways that they're alike!
That "one thing" being the central fucking premise of the splat? You mean that little niggling detail?

The initial position, taken by some retard way up the line, is that Liminals exist for the sole purpose of being Prometheans. However, this is simply and blatantly untrue.

In your typical White Wolf game that touches on Prometheans (but isn't about Prometheans), they exist primarily as antagonists, and as red herrings. How they fit into these categories centers around Disquiet. Liminals' anima banners make them disliked, but so does a Solar's - it's not that much worse. Unlike Prometheans, they don't constantly radiate a fuck off field that makes everyone hate them and kills everything around them.

That's another core effect that's hugely different. Which leaves the fact that they're Frankenstein-esque as the sole real similarity. Except that in Exalted's milieu, of tons of raw power available to PCs right off the bat, that sort of thing takes up a completely different role. PCs in a Hunter game will generally encounter a Promethean that somebody else made, given that the creation of a Promethean from scratch without a formula is extremely difficult, and probably impossible for a typical party. In Exalted, on the other hand, it's very easy for the PCs to wind up making a Liminal themselves, and fits the hubris of the Exalted, etc.

>>47803055
We have a direct citation from the devs on it, and you still can't pull your head out of your asshole.

Can you at least check your teeth for cavities? You got it shoved preeetty far up there.

>>47802482
Well, yes. Athens wasn't a bit larger than most Greek city-states, it was overwhelmingly larger than the average city-state. Corinh was also an unusually large city, and so not really relevant here, or maybe relevant as an example of what counts as a large metropolis. To my knowledge there were over a 1000 city-states in ancient Greece, or rather the Greek-speaking world. That doesn't leave a huge population for the average city-state. The closest thing to a reliable source quick googling gave me is a legit-seeming history-themed forum http://historum.com/ancient-history/24362-cities-ancient-greece.html, where the claim is made that the average city-state had 7000-10000 inhabitants in total. I'm not going to start digging through any actual scholarly articles over this, but that is something vaguely citation-like, at least.

>>47803103
>>47803055
Oh my god, I just realized. This is the exact same spergling. No fucking wonder.

Is it possible to use Necromancy and Demonology positively? Or are they inherently bad?

>>47803090
You have a citation that they're fucking inspired by Prometheans, a fact that was never in question or doubt.

HERE is what I am arguing against, you blithering smug idiot:
>No, their purpose is to be Prometheans, because Holden wanted Prometheans

Are you capable of comprehending that inspired by or paying homage to something is not at all the same as being the same?

>>47803140
Fuck off.

>>47803149
Concession accepted.

>>47803134
No, it is two different sperglings. I also don't see how talking about two interesting things, ie. Exalted and history, counts as 'sperging'.

>>47803140
Fuck off, speg. Stop whining and crying people don't agree with you, and have proven you're wrong.

Or get more angry for us to laugh at, one or the other.

>>47803159
Given that you were proven wrong on a number of counts on both subjects, and won't stop crying and whining about people disagreeing with you?

Yes, it counts as sperging.

>>47803136
Necromancy is bad, because only the undead and Abyssals practice it.

Demonology is creepy and slightly dangerous, but totally ok for everyone.

>>47803168
>have proven you're wrong.
No one has proven that Liminals = Prometheans, they've only shown that Liminals are inspired by/pay homage to Prometheans, which is completely different.

>>47803158
>>47803186
>>47803196
Fuck off, you backpedaling autistic pedant. Your claim was literally that "Prometheans and Liminals aren't anything alike."

>>47803186
The only person whining and crying here is you, because you're butthurt that other people disagree with you.

>>47803196
That's because you refuse to actually read, but that's no one's problem but yours, spergling.

>>47803189
>Totally ignoring Sijan
They're good necromancers.

Can you all just shut up?

>>47803221
No, they are exorcists and caretakers for the dead. IIRC they don't raise them.

>>47803136
alot of necromany spells have 'horribly mutilate ten dudes' as part of the casting so thats a bit of a speedbump

>>47803213
I said, and I quote, "they're not really anything like Prometheans whatsoever." I'm willing to amend that to add on "beyond a few surface elements" if you're willing to amend "their purpose is to be Prometheans" to "they are loosely inspired by Prometheans."

>>47803214
Sure thing. If that's what you gotta tell yourself.

>>47803186
Proven wrong where, exactly? I'm the guy talking about the size of Greek city-states and using them as a model for what might be reasonable for the average city-state in the Creation. Where have I been proven wrong?

>>47803238
Fuck off, you retconning, idiotic sperg.

>>47803232
But aren't demons literally the distended organs of the Yozi?

>>47803238
>I'll amend my totally wrong statement if you agree to lies to assuage my ego!
Eat dogshit, sperg.

>>47803254
Concession accepted.

>>47803256
Kinda. So it's a-ok to enslave them.

>>47803238
So, you'll agree to be slightly less wrong, if we ignore what Holden's actually said to say you're right.

How about no?

>>47803256
i was talking about necromancy not demonolgy. Unless you were asking if you could kill demons to cast the spells instead of humans, but i dont think you can

>>47803267
Oh, so your plan is to just piss people off until they don't want to deal with your dumbass anymore, and then once they finally tell you to shove off, you claim success.

You're a special sort of retard.

>>47803262
>>47803277
Morke stated that they were an homage to Promethean. That's enormously, fundamentally different from them having the purpose of being Prometheans, which was the original statement I'm contending against.

>>47803284
No I was bringing up why demonology is bad.

>>47803316
Fuck off.

>>47803297
No, my plan is to actually engage my opponent's held positions, rather than just saying "fuck off" and "you're retarded" in an increasingly whiny voice. The fact that you chose to descend to this level is on you, not me.

Suddenly the worst thread on /tg/ right now.

>>47803323
Using the distended organs of your enemies is okay of your enemies are the bad guys.

>>47803338
You're retarded. Fuck off.

>>47803329
>>47803347
I see you have come to the conclusion that your position is indefensible, thus making me the victor.

>>47803338
Yes, screaming and refusing to actually read what's stated is so mature, and totally not a lower level then deciding you're not worth the effort.

Don't expect another reply, spegling.

>>47803341
>Suddenly

Always

>>47803323
Oh.
Well in that case, creation is actually generally pretty rad compared to hell. Lots of demons would actually like spending a year and day vacation away from home.

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Can you all please cease this infantile bickering?

>>47803366
Often we actually have discussion, but then someone goes and takes an argument personally or refuses to acknowledge counter arguments.

>>47803360
I will expect another reply, as you desperately wish to get in the last word.

I've read every post in this thread. The arguments proposed are, in order:
1) Liminals serve to give you something to have happen when Solars try to bring back the dead.
2) No, their purpose is to be Prometheans. That's it.
3) Cite, please.
4) [the Morke quote where he says, and I quote, "On the list, one of his ideas was for “Patchwork Exalts,” an Exalted-homage to Promethean."]
5) That doesn't mean their purpose is to be Prometheans, any more than Abyssals being inspired by vampires or Solars being inspired by Hunters mean that their purpose is to be that thing.
6) Waa! Retard! Fuck off! Sperg! Pedant!

>>47803357

Fuck off.

>>47803457
Nah.

>>47803382
Yeah, but isn't there a chance you could end up being enslaved by one of the higher circle demons?

>>47803457
Just stop responding to him, he craves the attention.

So i was re reading some 2e stuff and have some questions. Both the compass maelfeas and roll of glorious divinity describe a emissary to hell. I forget the name but essentially the position constantly changes as one gets corrupted or killed or so on, but the latest guy has been there for two and a half centuries. Does the infernal book make any mention of him? Its implied he has spies in hell so he should have been able to tip yu shan off to the infernal plot.

>>47803493
HE's a Siddie right, the one that causes the Lotus Massacre

>>47803493
>Does the infernal book make any mention of him?
Nope. Never mentioned again. Use him for plots at your own discretion.

>>47803509
hes a god actually. Has some N/A artifact and was in love with a solar some time ago who hes worried about now.

>>47803136
Demonology isn't evil, inherently or otherwise. Demons aren't allowed to disobey their summoners. Seriously, it's in the laws written into their souls. There's such a thing as using the wrong tool for the wrong job, but if your Blood Ape deals with home invaders by eating them and leaving a bloody mess all over your floor, that's just because you told a Blood Ape to guard a fancy restaurant without considering the consequences. It's like using shotgun landmines as a deterrent against girl scouts knocking on your door.

The reason people dislike sorcerers and demon summoning isn't because it's evil. It's because sorcerers are creepy nerds (frequently) adhering to laws and taboos that no non-sorcerer has ever heard of.

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Honestly, I am sad that Visiting Flare didn't end up being part of the main circle.

>>47803493
He's mentioned in Compass: Yu-Shan, unless the write-up I'm thinking of is the one you're talking about in the Roll of Divinity.

Is there a God of Mathematics?

>>47804238
There's probably at least several who all delegate for different parts of Mathematics, just like how you can have a God of Scarlet Fever who answers to a God of Deadly Diseases who answers to a God of Disease for the region who answers to a God of Disease for Creation.

Layers, bureaucracy, delegation.

>>47804259
>Layers, bureaucracy, delegation.
Confusion.

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>>47798872
>makes a note to houserule rudimentary guns into Creation

Please, continue

>>47804290
If you're using 3E, try not to make guns that seem "as strong" as real life guns. Early, rough guns would just need the Slow and Crossbow tags, to make them need reloading and not be based off the users strength for damage, and then perhaps add in Piercing and/or Powerful for armor penetration and extra damage at close range.

If you make them do more damage than other weapons of the same size category, than you make all your players need guns and they'll start weirdly overperforming even over the melee weapons. Make the reasons for guns being so great to be something you do in the fluff; mortals need less time to train to be good with guns, much the same as how crossbows worked. The manufacture of gunpowder doesn't require the expensive importation of firedust from the South. Etc etc.

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>>47804437
I wouldn't make real life guns. Muskets more like, for those Night caste that want to be snipers, like Simo Häyhä

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>>47804290
Frozen lightning is an exotic component, so that kind of guns would rare, if someone manages to invent non-artifact versions for mortal use. (but you as an GM can totally just say that frozen lightning is suddenly in abundance for whatever reason)

You have to decide whether they need ammo, or work on some sort of recharging "charge". The latter would mean shooting literal lightning at people, ruptured eardrums optional but preferred.

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>>47804290
>>47804497
Just reskin a crossbow with an extra tag for hitting hard or penetrating armor. Then fluff it as using Frozen Lightning turned into pure Air when you pull the trigger as the propellant. It'd be almost silent too, like a Napoleonic air rifle.

3e's weapon mechanics are smooth and easy enough to quickly and easily represent whatever you want.

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>>47804562
I wouldn't have guns mass produced: they would be good weapons for night caste and other assassin-focused exalted of a certain caliber.

>>47804568
>>47804562
>>47804437
>>47798872
How about this? The mundane and artifact versions of the North's guns.

The mundane version is a sort of pneumatic crossbow. A metal tube mounted to a wooden stock, you load in Air Dust and a bolt, trigger the Air Dust, and then the rapidly expanding gasses shoot the bolt out fast and far. Using a smaller dart or even a musket ball is relatively uncommon, but the direction that the Haslanti League is starting to move the technology.

Then there's the artifact version. A long, metal rod affixed to a wooden stock, it also has a crystal chamber housing frozen lightning. Attuning to the artifact lets you fire it without depleting the frozen lightning, but even a mortal can shoot it - every time they do, roll a d10 and on a 1 the frozen lightning burns out. Before it can fire again, the frozen lightning needs to be replaced, or an essence user needs to feed motes into it - for every 1m fed in, roll a d10; on a 10, it's restored to working condition.

The lightning-wand would shoot a streak of lightning, complete with a literal thunderclap as the gun goes off, while the mundane one would just fire with the faint pop of the air pressure equalizing as the bolt leaves the barrel.

The notable disadvantage of the air rifle would be that it should take longer to load than a firewand (because you need to load both shot and powder), with the advantage being the increased range and how quiet it is. It would be the sniper's weapon of choice, compared to flame weapons - much the same role that crossbows already fill.

>>47804706
Kek.
Have like a single master craftsman (who holds the secret of their creation) make one gun every month or so, and there'll be <100 custom built beauties in all of Creation.

>>47804706
That girl's got quite the head on her shoulders.

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>>47804785
Drop the mundane version, it's boring and the artifact version can be fired by mortals, you don't need it.

>>47804853
>it's boring
But it's presumably cheaper than the artifact version, right?

>>47804959
Of course. But whether it's cheaper or not shouldn't determine if you insert it in your setting.

>>47804568

This.

I houseruled guns into my games long ago, they work perfectly fine. The only minor problems I had were with things like bazookas.

>>47805065
>The only minor problems I had were with things like bazookas.
How did you get around that?

>>47804785
I'm probably stealing the artifact version. I don't get the appeal of guns in Creation and don't know why some people obsess about converting them but shooting literal lightning and thunder is something else.

>>47805115

A method more complicated than I would've liked, but seems to work.

Explosive - Explosive attacks work differently than others. When making an attack with a weapon containing the explosive keyword, first pick a target and the attack against that target resolves normally. All other targets take a one time environmental hazard of trauma 4 with a difficulty varying on the weapon type. Light explosive weapons deal 4i, Medium explosive weapons deal 6i, and heavy explosive weapons deal 8i. Soak does reduce this damage down to a minimum of one normally and against battle groups it deals lethal damage. The wielder of the explosive does not gain any extra initiative that was lost by secondary opponents. ***Wits+Dodge can be used in place of Stamina+Resistance on the trauma roll against all explosive weapons.*** Users cannot also trick the system by aiming at the feet of their opponents and letting the environmental damage wear them down. They must score a successful hit against them.

>>47804568

I had an idea for a 2 dot artifact that's basically a red jade pressure chamber with a valve. Put in a mote, the red jade channels it into heat in the chamber, increasing the pressure.

Hoot it up to a barrel with a quick-release valve, put in a bullet, and bam - you have your air gun.

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>>47790245
Are there any good Exalted stories?

Any novels that take the setting and tell the tale of a circle of solars or solars and other exalted?

Hard mode: are they good?

>>47805523
Hmm, would it be possible to do similar things with Black and Blue Jade?

>>47805674
I enjoyed the Most High and Odyssey quests over on SB. No circles, just a main character and posse.

Then there's a lot of Exalted crossover fanfiction, which I have a few good recs if you're into that.

>>47805771
>>47805674
If you do decide to check them out, start with the Odyssey, the first 20~ chapters are canon for the most high.

>>47805771
Sure, I'm open to suggestions!

>>47805801
The Odyssey? We aren't talking about the one from Homer, right?

>>47804853
>the artifact version can be fired by mortals
Yeah, but frozen lightning is super rare and expensive, and lasts for an average of 10 shots when fired by a mortal. It's astoundingly unreasonable for it to have a real place in mortal societies.

Unless you change it so it only burns out on a botch, of course.

>>47805839
>The Odyssey? We aren't talking about the one from Homer, right?
Named after it. https://forums.spacebattles.com/threads/the-odyssey-story-only-thread.257553/


>>47805858
>frozen lightning is super rare and expensive,
Only as rare and expensive as you want it to be. Maybe people found a steady source of it? Maybe a god is feeling generous? Western gold rush, but with more snow.

>>47805674
http://www.drivethrurpg.com/product/1356/A-Day-Dark-as-Night-Exalted-1?it=1
I've had this in my RPGs folder for years but never read it. Might be good. Anyone given it a chance?

>>47805720
>Hmm, would it be possible to do similar things with Black and Blue Jade?
It'd probably be easier with Blue Jade, actually. Feed in a mote, a chamber of blue jade filles with increasingly pressurized air, and now you have an air rifle. Black jade less so; water doesn't really meaningfully compress, which is why you tend to use steam rather than actual water except in slower hydraulic systems.

>>47805839
>Sure, I'm open to suggestions!
A Green Sun Illuminates the Void (Exalted/ZnT), Zenith (Exalted/Worm), Alchemical Solutions (Exalted/Worm), Fiend (Exalted/Worm)

>>47805921
>>47805839
Those are in order of quality.

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>>47805887
>>47805891
>>47805921
Thanks guys, I'll check them out right away!

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>>47805887
>Western gold rush, but with more snow.
That's the one I'd go with.

Haslanti sky-trains, airship prospector-pirates armed with lever-action lightning carbines, and the real captains of industry making money off the infrastructure, rather than the product itself. Longcoats lined with fur and heavy scarves, gun duels on top of trains a hundred meters above the ground, and a circle of five men with complicated pasts all coming together to try to live a better future.

Yeah, I'd play the shit out of that.

>>47805895
I'm just impressed by the fact you could mass produce these to make parts for some form of steam engine. The trick is going to be getting everything set up so it doesn't explode the first time you apply Motes to it, and making sure someone doesn't nick off with it.

>>47805921
What's with all the Worm crossovers? Also, is GSItV actually good?

>>47806161
Exalted and Worm slide together really well, in terms of how they work.

>>47805921

seconding green sun.

>>47806161
It's got ES's standard head up the ass style of writing, so depends on if you enjoy that or not.

>>47806311
As much as I like Exalted, I feel that Worms is a little too angsty and "boohoo everything sucks" for me.

>>47806161
I read a lot of Worm fanfics, so I know to recommend some. And yes, it is, even (especially?) if you don't know jack about ZnT.
>>47806396
Fair enough, though IMO that ends fairly quickly, to be replaced by mild grimdark.

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>>47806495
That is why I liked reading the crossover between Prototype and Worm. Because Alex can out-angst all the edgyness of the setting away, making it funny again.

Sorry, but I just can't take angsty shit seriously, it's not my cup of tea.

>>47806559
There's a bunch of those. Any good ones?

>>47801744
thanks

>>47806559
Prototype is what I want the Lunar foil to be. Freeform shapeshifting that requires imagination and skill vs animal shapeshifting that uses instinct and natures perfected designs.

>>47806607
Shards of impossibility.

It's the only one I read so it's the only one I can say is good-ish/okay

>>47806161
Worm is very popular among internet hipsters who never got over high school.

>>47807151
Now, really, if you don't like it that's fine, but there's no need to resort to this sort of childish name calling, you faggot.

>>47805674
Heaven-Sent Sword is pretty good, but you really get the idea that the writer didn't GET Exalted.

https://www.fanfiction.net/s/8255808/1/Heaven-Sent-Sword

>>47801364
(Behold! Debate Necromancy of the Void Circle!)

Thing is, in my view, Abyssals in previous editions were a jumbled mess of themes almost on par with Lunars. They need refocussing. That's why I see another splat taking some themes off their shoulders and giving their more important themes (in my opinion, of course) more space to be properly developped as a good thing.

Especially considering that it helps give the Underworld more substance. The more actors making the Underworld an interesting place, the better : it direly needs it.

So, what's the current release schedule? Arms of the Chosen -> What Fire Has Wrought?

>>47806647
So, some sort of flexibility vs power tradeoff, with Lunars turning into giant bears vs the guy who turns himself into his equivalent mass of knives?

>>47807245
We asume Lunars are 3rd, then who knows

>>47807243
Except the main issue with Abyssals wasn't their jumbled mess of themes, it was that thanks to Resonance and their situation, there were basically two ways to play an Abyssal: Killfuck "Slitpipes McGee" Soulshitter, or "Angsty, tortured hunter of redemption", with everything else being going against the grain hard in a way that showed.

Even the charms that involved helping people had terrible things happening them. Taking away thematic space isn't helpful, because while they needed more consistent themes, they also needed more themes overall.