Pathfinder General /pfg/
Familiars and Psycrystals Edition
How useful can you make your little pets, /pfg/? Have you made homebrews based around them?
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Old thread: >>47712129
>>47719503
BAB and feats are not effects. Stuff like detect evil is.
>>47719513
Reminder a big fuck you and fuck off to any homebrewers who aren't DSP or Paizo
An interesting question came up at my table tonight, /pfg/.
What is your favorite of the 6 Ability Scores?
>>47719531
Be the change you want to see, anon.
Review people's homebrew and make homebrew worth talking about.
>>47719531
>>47719513
Never underestimate the power of a one-expendability/day psicrystal to round corners for you at low levels, or callously act as a targeting beacon...
Never underestimate the power of a Psi-Core to give Call-Weaponry a new lease on life past low levels (for those of us not building for it with certain archetypes of course)
Never, EVER forget that it's an extra set of every skill you have, and has a set of actions. Even in your pocket it could be helping you.
>>47719503
They aren't effects at all any more than gear is an effect.
>>47719531
So about the nolifes I've been seeing acting salty as fuck. Is that all you doing a bad job of shitposting or did you start a gay little club?
>>47719532
I like Wisdom.
Governs Perception and Will Saves, and it's the casting stat for the Druid and Inquisitor, two of my favorite classes. What's not to like?
>>47719558
I'm still gleeful at the anon who's making that Stregone warlock.
>>47719513
>Puss in Boots
>Cat Sidhe
>Familiar
Puss would be an awesome familiar considering how he singlehandedly made his master a fucking King.
Did DSP ever throw a bone to this smug kitten in Gareth's Fae Book?
>>47719565
People at a gay club don't have the time to write such long diatribes on the internet.
Trust me.
I knew the owner of one club.
>>47719532
Dex is the physical god stat.
>Reflex, AC, attack, damage and stealth.
Wis is the mental god stat.
>Will, AC, attack, damage, and very vital skills (perception and survival)
>>47719565
Really? You don't think getting feats for having more hit dice isn't an effect of hit dice. I guess someone with 3 hit dice doesn't get 2 feats for having 3 hit dice? Do you realize how stupid and ludicrous that sounds?
>>47719578
I don't thikn it's even out yet...
Quite frankly, I haven't heard much from the Psionics Occult and fae playtests in a while.
>>47719591
>Survival
>vital
>create water
>create food and water
>ring of sustenance
>>47719592
The feats are a result of an effect, not an actual effect, you mongoloid. The same way having gold at chargen is the result of an effect and not an effect. Gold is gold and feats are feats.
>>47719532
Cha/int/dex masterrace
Str doesn't show any skill of the character - it just means you spent a lot of time lifting.
Wis is useful but also boring - lots of interesting things happen when your character can make questionable decisions.
I've played a kineticist and there aren't that many interesting ways you can spin being con-based.
>>47719577
I'm still trying to get some followup on the one bit of feedback I got on my Spherelock conversion. I got one bit of feedback saying its damage was still shit, but her never really explained it further than that when I asked for clarification.
>>47719606
Don't knock Survival. Having a leader who's good at it is great for not getting lost in the wilderness and auto-avoiding a ton of natural hazards.
>>47719592
Since I'm inexplicably awake right now, may as well answer. Psicrystals don't have Hit Dice.
>>47719605
PsiAug Occult's been slightly on hold thanks to getting some other projects handled and life stuff on various peoples' ends. It still exists though, and we're still watching feedback and playtesting.
>>47719609
>there aren't that many interesting ways you can spin being con-based.
Agreed. You're pretty much that kid in elementary school who could eat worms and pine cones on the playground with no ill effects
>>47719619
Oh, sure, it's handy, and I usually grab some of it myself if I have ranks free, but hardly vital given how cheaply spells can replicate its effects. Particularly since magical food/water or rings of sustenance are guaranteed not to be poison or some bullshit if you're in Hell or somewhere inhospitable.
>"For the purpose of effects related to number of Hit Dice, use the master’s total level in psionic classes."
>It's a hard sell to try and argue feats and BAB aren't effects related to number of hit dice.
...huh. Now that I look at it...anybody know if the above means DSP psicrystals DO get BAB and feats and skills and things? I mean on the one hand it seems like that would be more well-known but on the other hand anon is right, there's an argument there.
Failing that they're just fucking useless. Which is a shame because I love them. Fingers crossed for companion psicrystals in the Augmented expansion. :(
Someone asked about psicrysmals: they were from an obscure very tiny supplement called High Psionics: Psicrystals Expanded by DSP back in 2007. You basically made your psicrystal into a Diminutive Elemental (3.5 stats, so 3/4th BAB) animal companion that could burrow and eventually grow up to Small size.
>>47719623
They do not. They are treated as having the same number of hit dice as their owner for effects related to hit dice, same as familiars. Which have had feats off of that same clause since 2001.
>>47719626
>>47719609
>they never saw Flex Mentallo
He's more Str-based, but you can refluff it to Con easily enough.
>>47719638
>>47719623
I'm assuming effects related to Hit Dice don't include BAB or feats either. :\
Unrelated: Maddening Fear, a Dread Terror, applies an untyped -2 penalty to a target's Wisdom score. That's really all it says. Should there be a duration? Or I guess I know there should, does anyone know what it IS? Is it stackable?
>>47719513
In the last session I played, my (Celestial, Protector) familiar was a fucking hero.
While I was being tortured in a complex a mile away, she teleported herself and my weapon using Guardian's Return, and cut my bindings.
We fought for our lives awaiting our rescue by the party.
Familiars are great.
>>47719640
...what? Familiars get feats in Pathfinder?!
I know Gardens are supposedly the best buildings/rooms you can get with Downtime rules, but is there any reason not to upgrade them to Greenhouses if you have the resources to spare?
>>47719671
They received feats from the exact same rule (which psicrystals also have now) in 3.x. Paizo doesn't agree, but since when did we give a fuck what Paizo thinks?
>>47719636
if you think that's the only way Survival works, you don't deserve your name. Or you have a shitty DM who does not know how to throw environment into the combat scenario.
>Tracking
>Avoiding getting lost
>Discerning whether that overgrowth you're passing through is poisonous or not
>Checking if the swamp water is safe to cross or will swallow you whole, etc.
>Trying to survive through a sandstorm or a blizzard
>>47719513
Tattoo familiars are fun and flavorful, and I want to try tumor familiars on my alchemist, though I have a feeling my GM might hit me across the head if I stack too many companion creatures at once. I also, sooner or later, want to get a caster to a high enough level to use Polymorph Any Object to turn an ordinary Sage familiar into a true companion.
>>47719707
>locate person/object
>find the path
>detect poison
>not being dangerously overconfident for free exp and !!!FUN!!!
>endure elements
>>47719640
If that's correct, then there's a break in the rules from the RAI. Psicrystals are not supposed to get their own BAB, feats, or skill ranks (barring Perception and Stealth).
Do you have a citation on that, though? I'm genuinely interested, because the general consensus in the 3.5 community had always been that familiars don't get feats beyond their first one (since they don't increase their Hit Dice, while Psicrystals explicitly did in 3.5). As far as I was aware, Pathfinder familiars were no different. Now I'm curious but can't find any dev posts or discussion threads that conclusively state it one way or another.
>>47719662
Re: Hit Dice - correct.
Maddening Fear: I've got no idea, there. It probably should have a duration listed but doesn't. I'll ask.
>>47719723
If survival is useless because spells can replicate its effects, then why the fuck do we have skills at all since spells can do pretty much everything skills can?
>>47719741
Wizards have to have something to feel superior towards :^)
Skills are also cheaper, generally speaking. I keep telling you Survival is legitimately useful, just not vital like Perception is.
>>47719723
>locate person/object
Won't work if you don't know what it is you're hunting down
>find the path
Won't work unless you know the next town destination
>detect poison
The bush isn't 'poisonous' its got stinging nettles or whatever.
>not being dangerously overconfident for free exp and !!!FUN!!!
Your DM is running a liberal daycare. We get it.
>endure elements
Won't save you from a sandstorm or a blizzard.
>>47719754
>ad hominem and situational problems
Expected.
>>47719762
That's... not ad hominem, bruh.
>>47719577
And I'm still amazed people are enjoying it so much, though I do feel a bit bad for >>47719614I have a feeling none of the archetypes I'm most excited to make are going to be nearly as hyped as the initiating or psychic ones that get made.
Man, I can never not hate the idea of Psicrystals, I can barely tolerate familiars if only because they have some basis in folklore. I hate them slightly less than I do the idea of permanent Psionic items. Though I do hate Psionic items less if I imagine them as being less of a "magic" item and more like a "mundane object that requires Psionics to use properly".
Dorjes, Psycrystals, Psionic Planeshift, Genesis, and 99.9% of 7th Path leave a bad taste in my mouth because it tries too hard make Psionics "arcane casting with a coat of paint" instead of it's own interesting thing.
Does anyone else feel this way?
>>47719779
NOTHING will exceed /pfg/'s insatiable thirst for initiating. Ever.
They could be drowning in it and they'll still act like they're in the Sahara.
>>47719762
>dismissive blurb instead of an argument
Expected.
>>47719787
No, because I'm much more interested in a useful set of mechanics I can fluff into my own thing than something that tries too hard to be distinct. Psionics doesn't have to be bald guys touching their temple to read your mind, it can be use for magical ninjas, mage traditions that focus on torrents of fire, lightning, and ice, powers resulting from supernaturally tainted blood, or whatever the fuck else you want to use it for. Which means it needs to provide mechanical solutions to the problems you're expected to face as an adventurer, same as any other power source.
>>47719787
Our Psionics is futurepast technology powered by a divine source. Vid related.
>>47719819
Not that guy, but I feel like it cheapens things when everything has to have a solution to every problem, as opposed to different things having different areas of strength.
>>47719787
No. Psicrystals are great. The only thing I dislike is that they are not INHERENTLY STATED to look like little aberrations and psionic beasts, so you have to clarify that to the DM. I love having little friendly things to play with and bounce off as roleplaying aides. Psicrystals, familiars, Endeca's gregarious gravity slime, animal companions, I basically want one of these things on every fucking character.
My dream is a martial that has an eidolon but no spellcasting but they're never gonna let us have it, I guess it probably would be stupid. But I keep thinking how great it would be to do with a zealot.
>>47719836
I'm that guy and I feel the same way.
>>47719836
That's a division by class and character, same as magic. Not every psionic character can solve every problem.
>>47719614
I'd have to read it.
BUT
If it's based on destruction sphere, then the feedback is correct.
The biggest problem with many "blaster" attempts is the idea that one big hit worth maybe two normal ones but its-own-standard and/or otherwise incompatible with most ways of upping damage is worth the same as a full-attack.
For example, Even if by level 20 you can get an eldritch blast's damage to 30d6, which sounds huge compared to a 10d6 fireball....
That's 180 maximized. That means assuming it's maximized *AND* devoid of total-failure-states such as "against normal dragon and balor AC on BAB 15 with no enchantments" or "Reflex Half, lol", it doesn't even deal half a CR 20's average estimated health *before* common defenses such as immunities(OW), resistances(still ow) or DR+hardness.
So the big "this is all about damage" class/archetype/build turns out too be giving up fucktons of potential in exchange for being barely half (and that's assuming the maximized is resourceless and automatic here!!!!!) of what a damage dealer for the party should be capable of doing for his party at that level.
>>47719787
Psi-drones you toss around a corner like a camera don't do it for you?
>>47719869
They don't, especially when they're supposed to be intelligent.
>>47719879
smartphones are intelligent.
that doesn't mean they're not expendable.
>>47719869
It's what I do with my familiar every now and again: Move action to let him out, let him have his entire round of actions moving and scouting, then caster uses a move action to pull the sucker back as a tattoo.Tattoo familiars are neat like that.
>>47719889
Snartphones aren't sapient.
Your favorite build for a kobold, fluff / mechanics-wise?
>>47719904
Psicrystals respawn.
>>47719852
Yes, but what's the point in having them be different then? What's the difference in being a magic user as opposed to a psionicist if they can all do the same things anyway?Incidentally, the whole thing with ectoplasm bugs the hell out of me. Ectoplasm is ghosts, darnit.
>>47719859
It can full attack with its blasts. The damage scales up from 1d6 to 5d6 at level 17. You can apply Blast Types to them, so you could make them D8s if you want, or apply Crafted Blast to never roll under 3 on the damage rolls. They can TWF them, and have a Vigilante Talent to get TWF, and use their casting stat instead of dex to qualify for further twf feats. They can get Destructive Focus weapons to get enhancement bonuses on their blasts.
>>47719614
I already shared some feedback about your spherelock before.
Warlocks in 3e are or decent as damage-dealers, but what made them better than martials is because of Blast Shapes and Blast Infusions.
A Martial can full attack and do more damage than a warlock. Sure, that's fair and expected.
But the warlock can shape his blast into a cone, a chain, a burst or a wall and infuse it with acid to melt AC, fire to do DPR, cold to slow and other abilities that does blindness, fatigue, fear, etc. making them MUCH more valuable in a fight because those debuffs benefit the party as well.
And that's how I think you should proceed with your spherelock. A crowd-control blaster. Not great at damage and not as gamebreaking as a wizard, but somewhere in that middle.
>>47719905
Dragonwrought loredrake, desu
>>47719905
NOW, it's Chimera Soul Warlord, the brave little kobold who will eventually gain access to permanent Form of the Dragon II as a stance.
PREVIOUSLY, synthesis summoner just feels really appropriate. Mesmerist is fun too, for a cobra-like serpentfolk-style kobold.
>>47719920
Their mechanics are meaningfully different. Psionics models casting with a mana bar instead of a spell-revolver. That's the single most important distinction between psionics and spellcasting.
>>47719920
show it and Ill see what I can do in the morning.
>>47719513
>How useful can you make your little pets, /pfg/?
SHARE PAIN WITH PSYCRYSTAL.
There, you now have 1.5x more HP than you're normally expected to have at your level.
>>47719904
For the drone example, it could have some limited AI or something.I find it hard to put a psicrystal with most of my characters, too.
>>47719936
Power effects are also mechanics, and mechanics DO have an impact on how a character will act.
>>47719951
I'm just not big on the idea period.
>>47719924
Sound likeKineticist
>>47719963
A kineticist that doesn't suck Bhulman balls.
>>47719924
See, here's the thing. Spheres can DO all those things already. Everything people tell me that warlocks could do, Spheres can already do.
And people's biggest disappointment with the Warlock Vigilante (As far as I can tell) was that mystic bolts damage was shit on cheesy biscuits.
People were hyped about Kineticist, because all day magic attacks made them think of warlocks. Then it was a kineticist.
Then Warlock Vigilante made them think of Warlocks, since it too could do all day magic attacks, they were just shit.
I'm not sure what I can really do here.
>>47719938
Here ya go.
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1jNC6Z3p7AA-tjkBsp0lDuBT3YRoJQzOeqr9fuyF0QAk/edit?usp=sharing
>>47719962
Let me guess, you don't like deep focus either? I think we've gone down this path before. Fake it until you make it, I guess.
>>47719989
Sorry anon. Warlocks revolve around two main class features: Eldritch Blasts and Invocations.
And yeah, that pretty close to a Spherecaster as any.
>>47720017
I'm actually fine with deep focus, my only complaint is that you get a lot less bang for your buck than psi crystal containment.
Anyone got any good Harrow or Card-based Caster homebrews?
>>47720047
Would a Spherecaster with Skilled Casting using Perform: Tarot scratch that itch?
>>47719924
Warlocks weren't good damage dealers by default, you had to use the Hellfire Warlock prestige class at mid-level and lock yourself into very specific fluff.
I usually houserule-merged it into the base class in a smooth progression:
>Consuming Blast: You can add 1/2 your level in d6s to your Eldritch Blast until the next turn at the cost of 1 Con damage. This special Con damage can be restored by 2 at a time with a full-round action.
The mandatory Hellfire is gone and integrated, and the mandatory wand of lesser restoration/Binder dip is gone and integrated too. Now that I look at it, it's funny how close the Kineticist got to this simple shit, before hijacking it and flying into a major landmark.
>>47720035
At least Awakened Blades get Deep Focus for free, and Goetics, aberrant aegi, andmythicsqueeze a little extra from Psionic Body.
>>47720068
Hellfire wasn't even good by itself. You needed Claws, Glaive, or Grappling Blast to not be still shit since it was only one attack per round.
>>47720077
Yeah, but it sucks for every body else.
>>47720096
Then try, try, try until you find a fluff for psicrystals that works for you, or ask your DM to up the benefits for Psi-Body/Deep Focus.
Nightmare Constructor Dread...
...or just Nightmare Dread, the Path of War variant?
>Join group of randoms at LGS
>Everyone begins to talk about what kind of character they want to play
>Every player other than myself is playing as some form of the lone swordsman who can be found in the darkest corner of the tavern with a scarred eye.
How would one go about making this glorious bastard in Pathfinder? We need someone to lighten the mood and I'll be damned if it isn't my calling.
>>47720140
Bard for Illusions and Disguises
Lots of Bags of Holding
A Sorc bloodline that gives you an odd anatomy like Abberant
Craft Wondrous Items for random comedic items like Ring Gates, Dust of Dryness, Campfire Bead, Snapleaf, etc.
>>47720140
Hm.
That's a good question.
Part of me wants to say Alchemist almost, due to the shit you can pull with Discoveries. Not to mention the Mask has pulled bombs from nowhere at least once. Not sure.
I think the Nameless One feat is almost a necessity though.
>>47720115
Honestly, unless I'm fine with it unless I'm in a gestalt, where you NEED super high optimization. Otherwise, I can hold off on getting another focus and not really feel it. It's just kinda unfair that a trap otiin like that isn't going to get addressed.
>>47720140
In personality it puts me in mind of a nega-Bard. The jester that fucks with everyone and whose performances are making fun of people for reversed inspiration effects that target enemies. It was literally called the Jester when Paizo made it in 3.5, I don't know what the nega-Bard in PF is called. I'm positive there must be one.
>>47720210
Prankster and Court Bard
>>47720210
I kind of feel like Street Performer might do good, if only for Madcap Prank.
I can also see Hoaxer maybe working, or potentially Wit, if only for Cutting Remark.
I am having a very hard time pinning down Downtime Rules.
One part says that you can get Capital by just spending a day of downtime and the Earned Cost of however much you need, but then immediately afterward the sections for Unskilled and Skilled Work seem to contradict that, saying you have to roll checks to get the Capital.
pls to halp /pfg/
![ライアン[アクスウォーリアー].png](https://i.imgur.com/apBBH1k.png "ライアン[アクスウォーリアー].png")
>Using roll20's token library for player characters
WHY?
>>47720292
Downtime rules are shit
Find another game with a better system for it and port it over to Pathflounder if you still wanna play pfrpg
>>47720388
Do you have these all in a folder you could upload conveniently?
>>47720388
Because I'm lazy to look for one, I'm busy working on the map and you didn't send me your clean background character art.
>>47720437
http://g.e-hentai.org/g/857194/6fad3850a2/
>>47720080
This. Steady damage is worthless in a game that's decided by rocket tag, you need to be able to output high damage to matter if you're a damage class.
>>47720455
Thanks anon!
How much of a write up/players guide should I make if I want to GM a game?
How much of an impact does it make? What have you, or other GMs done?
I have a session tomorrow that I haven't planned for, I'm such a lazy GM. Stuff happened last time when I didn't plan and my campaign ended up going off the rails, and I don't even railroad.
My party have ended up in a capital and are trying to break a prisoner out of the holdings of a church that is... neutral at best. He has information the church probably shouldn't get their hands on and they are in the process of figuring it out. My question to any GMs out there would be:what kind if encounters would you find in the prison of an evil church's regional headquarters? They are going in stealthily and will probably get some information on layout before going in.
>>47720504
Players should understand the way the setting feels and have enough cultural information on however many populated places are relevant to build characters that feel like they come from the world rather than through a random portal looking for quests to go on, unless that's the plot.
Take the place the game starts in and two other relevant places. Nations preferably. Players should understand the cultural inspiration (Vikings, but with Egyptian aesthetics / Irish party, but in Ancient Sumer / et cetera), the important religions across the region, and some basics of the social structure (X has two queens chosen from the nobility and a king elected by the arcane collegiate, Y is served by randomly-chosen seasonal shamans who lead based on advice from a mysterious council of demon-possessed animals) for those places.
A short few sentences on THEME (what the story is about, very broadly) and MOOD (what genre the story takes place in) are also good ideas.
>>47719513
>How useful can you make your little pets, /pfg/? Have you made homebrews based around them?
I houseruled that both Psicrystals and Familiars gain feats.
Anyone from DSP here?
>>47720662
Hello
the answer is maybe but I definitely am
>>47720692
>Pretends to be DSP, despite always claiming that their stuff is overpowered tripe
Gooooooo fuck yourself, BUILDPOSTER~!
>>47720704
>what is reading comprehension
Fuck. Can you use Psychic Reformation if you're immune to mind-affecting?
I'm undead and I'm just realising how much this fucks myself over.
>>47720738
no ^;^
>>47720738
If you're in a collective, powers manifested through that ignore immunities.
Ie get a vitalist to do it for you
>>47720830
And what if I don't have a friendly neighbourhood Vitalist?
Can Greenhouses get the Fortification Augmentation?
Hey /pfg/, I'd like to ask a favor.
I'm a player, and my DM has asked me to help build a hostile NPC for a drow encounter. I've decided on an abberant aegis, fluffing it as a fleshcrafted super soldier. He doesn't want me to use more than one archetype, and to avoid PoW. Using 20 point buy, and the Throne of night variant stats for +2 strength and con, -2 wis. Is there any way to build this other than a grapple machine? Or am I locked into that path if I don't want him to be gibbed in one round?
>>47720738
Are you undead? Because Lords of the Night has a feat for that.
>>47720884
That is exactly what I'm looking for. Thanks.
>>47720880
Fuck, forgot the level. Somewhere between 7 and 10. Not sure exactly were yet, so let's assume 7.
>>47720884
Um, what feat would that be? I can't find it.
>>47720880
Just make sure not to build it like a PC, rocket tag isn't fun or interesting.
>>47720140
Ipkiss is a low level commoner or maybe expert. The mask is a divine artifact infused with powers of Loki.
Hey you cockmongling cumstains, what's next on Paizo's release schedule and which ones are you looking foward to, you colossal turbotards?
Hey /pfg/, I'm starting a new campaign with some friends and I want to run a build by you guys. We've agreed that my character will be the "leader" and primary melee character, with the others being a skill monkey, arcane magic user, and healslut/face.
Our DM tends to include a lot of straight, simple combat so I need to be sturdy and take some hits, but don't feel like playing a paladin when we already have a cleric (healslut).
Here's my build:
Human, Armour Master - Lvl 5
Abilities (15 pt-buy)
Str - 17 (+2 racial included)
Dex - 13
Con - 16 (+1 bonus included)
Int - 9
Wis - 7
Cha - 13
Feats:
Power attack
Shield Focus
Improved Shield Bash
Cleave
Improved Initiative
Great Cleave
Exotic Weapon Proficiency(Bastard Sword)
I plan to buy a set of Mithral Full-plate and a masterwork cold-iron bastard sword to start the game with as well
So what completely stupid things have I done pfg?
>>47721052
>Armour Master
Completely stupid.
>>47721059
Then suggest an alternative
>>47721052
I would switch the Int and Wis scores. Being a human will help with skill points, but your Will save is important
>>47720891
>>47720901
>Ghaarzon Telepathy [Psionic]
>You have learned to affect sapient undead with your telepathic abilities.
>Prerequisites: 2 or more powers known from the telepathy discipline, one of which must be 2nd level or higher
>Benefit: Your powers, psi-like abilities, and supernatural abilities ignore the immunity to mind-affecting abilities enjoyed by undead creatures; such creatures benefit from a +2 circumstance bonus to their saving throws vs. your mind-affecting abilities. Mindless undead retain their immunity.
>>47721062
If you insist on being a Fighter, Mutation Warrior is a good choice
>>47721062
Weapon Master.
Or Mutation Warrior.
>>47721067
Not present in my .pdf of Lord of the Night. Where did you take that from? Playtest or?
>>47721062
In my experience, Mutation Warrior combines very well with Drill Sergeant
>>47721052
Sword and Board is a trap option. Just use a Greatsword or Earth Breaker
>>47721075
From my pdf. Page 35 bottom right, just after Fang and Fury but before Grave's Embrace.
>>47721117
>>47721074
>>47721075
Well I don't want to play a paladin when we already have a cleric and we had 2 different barbarians in our last campaign, so I decided fighter. I'm not a fan of Drill sergeants, but mutation warrior sounds interesting for CON buffs.
>>47721105
What's wrong with shield? (genuinely asking, I usually play rogues or wizards) I'm supposed to be a meat shield primarily so it just seemed to make sense to have more AC
>>47721137
>filename
What?
>>47721147
>What's wrong with shield?
Gives very little.
Going THF is just more efficient.
>>47721052
It's a lot of mistakes: Thinking you can be relevant to anything as a 'tank' type character, thinking a small handful of AC bonuses will even make you a 'tank' character to begin with, thinking you can be relevant as a Fighter at all, thinking the Fighter is for anything but damage, splitting your feats between mediocre offense, bad defense and pure garbage (most notably the EWP: Bastard Sword but also the two Cleaves that were pointlessly nerfed into the trashbin in the transition from 3.5).
Your caster friends will be more durable, drastically more powerful, and can contribute anything at all (which is more than you) outside of a fight. This is basically an NPC build you might see Paizo put in to job against the PCs in a module - a guy made to look tough but not really BE tough, has scatterbrained build choices in a system that doesn't reward doing that EVER, and made with the assumption that picking their specialization options for martials actually works at making you good at those specializations (for the most part they don't, *especially* for Fighters).
>>47721147
>don't want to play a paladin when we already have a cleric
What? Why? Cleric/paladin duos are the best. The BEST!
>>47721151
Show me your copy of Lords of the Night, anon.
>>47721137
>posting a page from the old version
There's your problem anon
>>47721147
AC dies out as the best defense surprisingly fast. It doesn't matter how high you pump it with Armor/Shields when things use touch attacks or target saves.
The best defense in this game is a good offense, and the best offense (for melee) is a two handed weapon.
As for Mutation Warrior, it's better for Str buffs than Con. Con buffs will only give you a bit of temporary hp for enemies to eat through, while Str buffs will help you tear through enemies that much faster.
>>47721173
Where do I find the new version?
>>47721160
>>47721161
>>47721177
So what do you guys suggest for a 'tank' build then? I primarily play Rogues and skillmonkeys and have dabbled in casters but never played a straight up combat character before
>>47721197
Unless 3pp is available, "tanking" is not really a thing.
>>47721197
Tanking doesn't work in 3.PF unless you go with the 3pp class that the rest of pfg will inevitably recommend
>>47721197
Tanking will never be a good idea in this game. The best tank build is to not be a tank, but instead a ruthless killing machine that kills whatever you point at in one full attack action
>>47721212
W A R D E R
A R D E R W
R D E R W A
D E R W A R
E R W A R D
R W A R D E
>>47721208
>>47721212
>>47721215
Alright... so basically just build a dude with a big fucking ax, cleave and high STR?
>>47721241
Pretty much.
>>47721222
thank you pfg I knew you wouldn't let me down
>>47721137
Wait what.
>>47721241
Cleave sure, but don't go for Great Cleave or anything else that lists Cleave as a prerequisite, because you should really retrain Cleave into something better when you hit level 8.
>>47721241
Greatsword > Greataxe
>>47721244
Well that's kinda disappointing... Thanks anyway guys, I'm going to go attempt to pawn my "tank" role off on my friend now
>>47719762
>generic "I don't have a response" response
>>47721261
My homebrew rules that I've posted here before but /pfg/ seems to hate for some reason, intended to make things like cleave more useful:
Everyone gets vital strike at BAB +1 for free
2x vital strike ("improved vital strike") at BAB +6
3x at BAB +11
4x at BAB +16
5x at BAB +20
(You can't use vital strike to improve damage until BAB +6, when you would normally be able to take the vital strike feat)
You can lose a 1x multiplier to add the effects of a combat maneuver and/or any feat/class ability that requires a standard action or special attack action to use (such as cleave or spring attack)
>>47721320
How would you use it before +6?
>>47721333
Combat Maneuvers mostly
>>47719905
In 3.5 (not PF, I know, but the only real kobold experiences I had) I decided to make the "Littlest dragon". Claws, Bite, Tail Slap, Breath weapon on the proper dragon cooldown, wings and flight. It was lots of fun. The only problem was, I could 't get wing slap attacks
>>47721352
3.5 kobolds were better than the pf piece of shit.
>>47720140
I'd say a bard, or some kind of Bard/Sorcerer mix
Don't forget your Perform: Dance and Perform: Sing, and your Cuban Pete costume
Is there a Psionic equivalent of Dimensional Agility for Fold Space?
>>47721477
Soulknives have a blade skill at 4th for a Close range teleport and at 10th to just cast Fold Space, both of which explicitly work with Dimensional Agility.
Otherwise nope, sorry. But see if your DM will waive it on account of Fold Space being written before Dimensional Agility was a thing.
Let's say I was a giant weeabo fagget and I wanted to make a character that resembles Hanzo from Overwatch.
Is the Zen Archer the best option for that? Or should I look into some ranger or Fighter archetypes too?
>>47722042
Eldritch Archer Magus maybe? Maybe also go Kensai and ask your DM if you can choose longbow as your chosen weapon.
Assuming that a Pistol of the Infinite Sky and a custom item of Abundant Ammunition are NOT an option, but that Dreamscarred Press material is allowed, what are my best options for having unlimited firearm ammunition?
>>47722112
Two feats into Martial Training: Solar Wind to get the first stance
Hope you didn't want to use that stance slot for anything else
>>47722112
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/psionics-unleashed/equipment/psionic-items/psionic-weapons
Energy weapons.
How does one calculate the total CR of a dungeon? Would it be the total XP values of every hazard in it? If so, what is a good number to aim for relative to the party's APL?
I was thinking that to design the dungeon for a total of APL+4 would work well, but that seems to give vastly different results depending on what level you're designing for.
Any suggestions?
>>47722180
Why would you WANT a CR total for a dungeon? Unless by "dungeon" you mean everything is going to attack the players at once.
>>47719532
Intelligence. I love the clever characters, the tacticians and planners, the quick-witted tricksters, and the scholars who always have that one crucial piece of information at just the right moment, so I generally love playing characters that can make good use of Intelligence. I've grown especially fond of the Investigator lately.
>>47722196
I mean in terms of being able to gauge whether or not I should tweak the difficulty to make it a bit harder or easier on the party.
Not everything would be attacking at once, but I don't have a huge amount of experience with DMing and I'm not sure just how much to put in a dungeon, and CR is the only way I know of to quantify whether or not a party can take my encounters.
Do you have a better way or a general rule on how to determine dungeon design with regard to how much stuff to fill the place with?
>>47722226
Investigators are fantastic
>>47719787
No man, I love psicrystals.
One of my favorite characters is basically a soulknife who was granted his powers by a psicrystal.
>>47719592
In games like D&D and Pathfinder, terminology is very important (except D&D 5e's "natural language", which as we all know has caused tons of issues already). In Pathfinder, an "effect" doesn't just mean "anything related to X", it's an actual term for something. In this case, "effect" means an actual in-game effect, like from a spell or other ability. Something like sleep is "an effect based on hit dice". Feats and base attack are not effects in game terminology, they're features.
>>47719532
Con. Get huge. Get really huge. Keep getting huge.
There need to be more Con-based options outside of friggin' Kineticist.
>>47722233
You have no idea how happy the Polymath has made me. I've actually got a gestalt game coming up (only three players), and I've got a Magus (Bladebound, Kensai)//Investigator (Polymath) in the works. I'm gonna see how well he does, I love the versatility of having spells, extracts, and maneuvers all on the same character.
Although his maneuvers will mostly be counters and boosts, since I don't want to cut into my spell combat actions too often. I'm thinking of traiting/ordering into Elemental Flux (no Animus to power it, but damned if those stances aren't amazing) and/or Riven Hourglass. Aside from the aforementioned stances, they've also got some really nice counters and boosts.
Basically, I'm building him as a professional adventurer, with a smattering of things he's learned from all sorts of travels around the world. He's the kind of guy that, no matter the situation, he'll have some way to contribute. I'm really looking forward to this one.
>>47722180
>>47722196
>>47722227
For example, I have a dungeon planned for a party at level 5 that consists of (Separated into lines for ease to read):
2 CR3 Traps
3 CR4 Encounters; one of which is designed to be completely optional
1 CR5 Encounter
2 CR6 Encounters; one of which is designed to be optional
1 CR7 Boss Fight encounter
Taking on the optional encounters will increase the treasure available when they bring down the boss.
Does this seem like too much for a level 5 party to take on with all of their daily resources?
>>47722278
But anon, there used to be!
Then Paizo made the scarred witchdoctor int-based and orcs count as 2 INT higher for the purposes of the class.
Because fuck having interesting options.
>>47722347
"This lets people have a spellcaster that doesn't die in one hit, but they lose out on..."
"Wait, they can take more than one hit? That's way too powerful, we can't have that now can we?"
"But they lose out on a lot of the very important things that Intelli..."
"Nope, too powerful, kill it."
>>47719591
dex to damage is the dumbest shit ever.
>>47722453
As opposed to what? Strength to damage for everything?
Oh, I know, how about a mental stat to damage? That'd be pretty dumb, right?
>guided
Oh, right.
Dex vs Str to damage is easily fluffed as skill vs. force, and if you think that's dumb then you should go play WHF.
>>47720652
I find it funny GMs are willing to due this but won't allow Leadership.
>>47722538
>Thinking feats compare to class levels
By this logic, the fighter is one of the most versatile and useful classes with all those extra feats, right?
>>47721197
As you can see, none of the responses you got actually helped you at all. I hope you learned your lesson in regard to asking /pfg/ for advice one what you want to play.
All you'll get is bullshit like >>47721160 and >>47721105.
>>47722109
He'll probably want to actually be able to hit things.
>>47722560
Sometimes the best help is advising someone to give up.
Tanks in the MMO sense can't exist in 1pp pf because there's no way to stop an enemy from ignoring you and mauling the squishies instead, apart from the threat of a single AoO which barely scratches them because you invested all your build resources on defense.Spells can also do the job, of course
If you just want to be 'hard to kill', acknowledging it's very different from being able to protect the party, just go invulnerable rager barbarian with superstition and the FCBs that boost it.
>>47721197
Paladin is the only thing that can really 'tank', and that's because it can swift-action heal itself.
Even then, you're mostly playing a two-handed Str pally who just happens to be really hardy thanks to swift-action heals and strong saves all around.
>>47722346
Sounds right to me.
I would probably divide one of those CR3 traps into a couple of CR 1 traps. Incorporate them into some of the encounters and such.
Remember the greatest impact of traps is that they always punish the PCs. They should have to choose between taking the hit or losing time disarming them (fucking up buff durations etc).
Be sure to have a bit of everything from crowd control, poisons, diseases, magic dispels, rust, etc. An maybe one of those CR4 encounters could just be mooks who fuck with them only when they try to rest.
Something came up in my group's Curse of the Crimson Throne campaign that I figured I should ask you guys about. For those who don't know, there's a pseudodragon companion you can pick up fairly early on, named Majenko. The DM let me take him on as a familiar, despite playing a PoW class, and agreed to let me convert him into a cohort at level 7 once I get Leadership.
How would you guys recommend I build him? Obviously wands are going to be important, and I'm already stockpiling some of them, but what else? I'm thinking Rogue would work well for a pseudodragon, but I know Rogue isn't one of the more powerful classes, so it would mostly be for sneak attack. I know there's probably a more efficient class out there for him, but this is actually my first PF campaign in a long time, so I'm not even totally familiar with the stuff that's been released recently.
What do you guys think?
>>47722606
One of them specifically targets a certain race according to its entry. I can't get too specific in case some of them get on here, but the fragile arcane caster in the group is that race.
>>47722511
that's exactly why it's dumb, it invalidates str entirely. fluffing it as skill vs. force should work in the favor of str as well. In that there should be options to x to y any stat really.
>>47722555
Could be? I think a Combat Patrol cohort would be pretty neat. I mean compared to a familiar you can already buff to all hell it's hardly any more or less broken. Don't even get me started on Animal Companions.
>>47722641
This debate comes up every now and then and the answer is that if you know what you're doing, str builds are still the king of damage.
Want to dump str? Sure, but you're not going to be hitting as hard as someone who didn't.
>>47722641
It wouldn't invalidate str if you kept close track of carried weight and encumbrance, but I can guess your response to that is "those are too hard to monitor/it's a dumb system/why would I put that much effort into a game".
>there should be options to "x to y" any stat
Correction. You should go play Scion.
>>47722641
The way I like to deal with Dex to damage is to add the dex modifier, but also include the Str modifier if their Str is below 10 to represent that they have the skill to hit the right spot, but not the force to hit it as hard as they could otherwise
>>47722680
Not that anon (in fact I love dex to dmg), but even so, the encumbrance argument falls apart because you'll only ever need around 10-12 strength and a handy haversack.
>>47722680
>It wouldn't invalidate str if you kept close track of carried weight and encumbrance
Only matters at early levels or if you COMPLETELY dump strength.
>>47722595
Not in this case, at all.
Your argument is based entirely on theory and assumption.
There are plenty of ways to punish/stop those who try to go past you to get to your friends. And is an effortless task in most dungeons.
>>47722705
>>47722728
>not playing 10pb to torment the loothoarders
In all seriousness, though, my sum thought on the matter is that if someone wants whatever stat to damage, and there's a way to do that, I couldn't give a fuck. One class or set of options that focuses around one stat doesn't invalidate someone's choice to use a different trail of choices that focus around a different stat, and the only people who are genuinely concerned with some ability score being thrown out the window don't get into enough actual games.
>>47722741
List them.
Especially ones that stay relevant at higher levels.
>>47722628
Assuming you have someone who can disarm the traps it likely won't be an issue for him.
Hazards are probably the best way to punish casters, like a very long corridor full of a gaseous poison forcing them to run through it with a spell or get poisoned. And of course with the poor visibility and them running they may n not see the subtle tripwire or pressure plate, etc.
>>47722820
Not one of the traps, I mean one of the creatures says in its entry that it specifically targets a certain race.
Also, the party doesn't have a trapfinder, so I tried to find traps that would hurt, but wouldn't be too punishing if they don't see them.
>>47722799
I would recommend you start with the PSRD.
>>47722896
Yes, I saw the path of war section there too.
But we're talking 1pp.
I want to give all a high five
In the face
With a chair
With extreme force
>>47722978
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/catch-off-guard-combat
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/vital-strike-combat---final
http://www.d20pfsrd.com/feats/combat-feats/power-attack-combat---final
http://paizo.com/pathfinderRPG/prd/ultimateCombat/variants/calledShots.html
Never say /pfg/ isn't helpful!
>>47722978
LAEL XD THAT WAS SO FUNNY AND ORIGINAL!!!!!1!!! XD XD
>>47722896
>complains about /pfg/ suggesting 3pp
>says there are other options
>doesnt give them
>chose to complain
You're just doing this for the (You)s arent you?
>>47722994
Took me a second, but I keked
AntiPoWladin fucking when?
>>47722994
What the goddamn fuck are you blathering on about
>>47723028
It's the feat chain and optional ruleset you would need to hit someone as hard as you can in the face with a chair
>>47722994
>>47723039
Goddamn, that should be one feat!
>>47723012
Not any time soon, and quite possibly never.
>>47719995
Change it so the mystic bolts increase in base damage. 1d6, +1d6 at levels... reads as "extra damage dice" like pattern disruptors.
A disturbing majority of blast talents in Destruction require a spell point; the daily-limits have always grated on everyone seeing the word Warlock on these classes. It reeks of the paizo-standard "lol per day". Most of the remaining talents tank the damage dice "to compensate", or will make it elemental.
While getting maybe 4 attacks (5 hasted) by 20th isn't terrible at first glance, being 6d6 with that +5CL staff, there's no stat to damage, you were smart enough to remember you're fucked without feats and added compatibility there, but we're still looking at a not TRULY enchantable weapon: It's a swift (locking out many many other options one might want to have used, from Reactor Knight Overdrives to Swashbuckler abilities to Quickened Spells to Initiator boosts to anything that needed an immediate before it) action to only get +5 damage and are treated as magic.
That means the mystic bolts are inaccurate (+15 base chassis, multiple attacks without a +5 weapon) and prone to multiple applications of resistance and/or hardness (remember "clustered shots" only works against DR).
Since things with save won't be all that great on a mid-caster, and your output isn't all that impressive either, the results will be mediocre in the end. You gave many things up to get an okay backup weapon
>>47720834
Well then you're just going to have to suck it up.
>>47723069
Yay, you're finally here. I've been trying to catch you for a while.
There's this problem. Aegis Greater Extra Arms mention this:
>Each arm can now wield or use a light or one-handed weapon, shield, or any other item that he could normally use. Alternatively, the aegis can use one or both arms when wielding a two-handed weapon, possibly allowing him to wield a pair of two-handed weapons.
Two-handed weapons deal 1.5x damage. Off-hands deal 0.5x damage.
Multiplying rules are as thus:
>When you are asked to apply more than one multiplier to a roll, the multipliers are not multiplied by one another. Instead, you combine them into a single multiplier, with each extra multiple adding 1 less than its value to the first multiple. For example, if you are asked to apply a ×2 multiplier twice, the result would be ×3, not ×4.
Applying them RAW gives 1x damage on the two-handed off-hand. Is this interpretation correct or not? If not, please explain why.
>>47722112
The energy enchant, the level 1 solar wind stance, faking it with a warsoul.
>>47723069
Couldn't they just grab black seraph tradition on the paladin one or something anyways?
>>47723042
WTH
>>47723112
>aura of good
>losing powers for being evil
>>47723093
Brah, I'm phone posting while I handle my morning routine before I spend more time with my son and/or finish completely rearranging my entire house. I do not have the time or energy to fight with Pathfinder's half-assed multi arm rules. I'm sorry.
>>47723122
Oh well.
Whom should I ask anyway? Who of the DSP people visiting /pfg/ is the most familiar with Aegis?
/pfg/ threads
>>47723132
To be frank, this isn't an Aegis problem. This is a multiple arms problem. Ask Paizo, my friend.
>>47723171
Greater Extra Arms are a customisation written by DSP, not Paizo.
>>47723069
I hate this response. It's almost equivacible to saying 'Just play an Evil Ordained Defender with Black Seraph' but then you have the Paladin archetype right there.
C'mon now. I can understand that something like that is not a priority but I do not see any reason for it not to exist especially when it is a huge staple Dungeons & Dragons style fantasy.
I am also saying this because Fiendbound is way too specific to the point of sounding like someone's original character (based on a certain Black Knight from a fighting game, the one about Nights and Mares, you know the one?)
>>47723171
>>47723178
And it explicitly mentions a two-handed off-hand weapon:
>the aegis can use one or both arms when wielding a two-handed weapon, possibly allowing him to wield a pair of two-handed weapons
>>47723178
And it refers to the rules for multiple arms, which are written by Paizo, not DSP.
>>47723188
The issue is they aren't written by Paizo. Therefore, DSP, which explicitly called it out in an ability, should be the one to elaborate.
There are no stated rules for two-handing an off-hand weapon, at all.
>>47723186
Anon.
By following the multiplication order, you are getting 1x.
How is that not correct?
Your main two-hander gets x1.5, and your off-two-hander gets x1.
This keeps the offhand .5x below the main-hand, whether it's two big weapons or two small ones.
It's that simple.
>>47723197
I mean, it seems pretty obvious that it would cease to be an off-hand weapon the moment you started holding it in two hands.
>>47723218
The thing is that my DM has been asking me to find any confirmation of that a lot of times and constantly reminding me about it.
I've scoured half the internet to no avail.
Though Gareth's "I do not have the time or energy to fight with Pathfinder's half-assed multi arm rules" seems to have satisfied him as an answer.
Thanks, Gareth.
>>47723160
>>47723230
The multi-arm rules make it two-handed
But it's still an off-hand.
So the multiplication rule kicks in, give you have two multipliers applying.
How would one best go about building a pseudodragon character? Three class levels to work with right now. Thinking Rogue, but I'd like to hear your guys' thoughts and ideas. Probably going to be using plenty of wands, but that isn't set in stone.
Just play FantasyCraft, it'd give less head- and heartache
>>47723280
Why?
>>47723294
Because I've been told by my DM that I'm going to be getting a pseudodragon cohort sometime in the near future, and I'm looking for ideas on hi to build him.
Hey /pfg/, I'm joining a Pathfinder game for the first time at 7th level, and I've decided to roll up a tiefling inquisitor dedicated to Asmodeous.
The core handbook says 23,500 gold for starting at 7th level, and the DM seems to be sticking with as much to the rules as possible, particularly the two core handbooks.
What can/should I buy with all that?
I realize that prices can get wonky as fuck once you get into magical items, and I'm normally a pretty spartan kinda guy on items in most games, so looking at all this is kinda over my head a bit.
Getting a +2 armor, weapon, and shield sets me back 16k, plus whatever basic adventuring supplies I need shouldn't cost more than 1k, but I can't imagine that's the ideal way to spend my cash.
>>47723306
Oh cool, thought you meant for your own character.
>>47723183
We didn't do archetypes for Ninja or Samurai either, anon. No one on the team has any inspiration for antipaladin, and to be frank none of us have the slightest interest in it either, even leaving aside the... incident...with one of our testers passing off his homebrew as official.
The idea of a warrior in the service to evil is classic, but antipaladin is not. It's the mirror of another class that's already a distortion of its own thematic archetype.
If it happens, it happens, but I figured you'd prefer an honest answer over getting fobbed off.
What two handed weapon would be recommended for a Paladin?
>>47723329
That's actually not a bad way to do it at all if you're playing a martial character. You could throw down another 4k to get a belt or headband to improve one of your ability scores by 2 points as well
>>47723332
>even leaving aside the... incident...with one of our testers passing off his homebrew as official.
You can't just post that and not give any deets
>>47723342
Greatsword, same as with anyone using a two handed weapon.
Maybe an Earth Breaker if you know you'll be fighting skeletons a lot
>>47723329
As an Inquisitor you're probably better off with a Reach weapon than a one handed + shield, plus you will save money on the shield by using a two-hander.
>>47723072
While I'm not the spherelock anon, I'd like to point out that
A: That shit's a touch attack. Being inaccurate compared to a bow is kind of moot when most enemies have far less touch AC than normal. Even stacking every possible negative modifier (TWF, Rapid Shot, Deadly Aim, etc) you're still likely to hit most of your bolts.
B: Arcane Strike is written as being "always on for mystic bolts". It's a bandaid fix, but it's a good bandaid fixthat I shamelessly stole
C: At level 8 a warlock would have 4-5 attacks with the right feats, later levels could be anywhere from 5-8.
The rest of your points are perfectly valid, especially the stuff about spheres since I know jack shit about spheres.
>>47719741
Welcome to Caster Edition, noob.
>>47723351
Thank you.
>>47723332
Ninja and Samurai Arnot Staples that are roughly within or, close to core, D&D and PF products. They are a given and assumed aspect of the type of fantasy you are writing material for.
Now what you say about them being what they are is accurate however I feel like what you have provided for material as far as 'martial champion of evil' is not presented or contained well within any of the archetypes or classes produced by DSP thus far. As I said before, the Fiendbound Mauler is too specific, the Ordained Champion too vague (and still Defender oriented), the Harbinger also too specific in its own identity abd imagery, and so on.
Mostly what I'm looking for is a Str/Cha focused martial with heavy armor and a bent toward offense and a side dish of debuffing.
And now that I'm done complaining about it I think I am going to write my own archetype or class for this.
... any suggestions?
>>47723332
>We didn't do archetypes for Ninja or Samurai either, anon. No one on the team has any inspiration for antipaladin, and to be frank none of us have the slightest interest in it either, even leaving aside the... incident...with one of our testers passing off his homebrew as official.
How does the zealot have stronger themes and more of an identity then what you just said, a warrior in service to evil? To be honest some of your own classes feel like a distorted mess. Harbinger as well, which is why I haven't tried to make one. One of the players in a game I'm in has expressed his frustration with the Harbinger as well and eventually switched to a Stalker.
>>47723343
It's actually not bad? huh, thought it was a shitty way of thinking, cool.
>>47723363
>reach weapon
>two-hander
Unless I ditch asmodeus and pick a super special diety, that's pretty much just a longspear for reach, yeah?Inquisitors only getting simple weapons+ a couple ranged martial/exotic is depressing. I don't mind ranged weapons, but I want to purge shit up close with this first character.
>>47723387
>the evil champion/antipaladin concept is an assumed
Gah, stupid phone is butchering my posts.
>>47723434
There's nothing at all wrong with using a Longspear. Grab Combat Reflexes with 14 Dex and you can take 3 Attacks of Opportunity per round with a 10 foot reach. Bam. Instant combat support/flanking buddy
>>47723331
Nope, but I like being able to design my cohort. Hence why I'm looking for class/build ideas.
Which are your personal favorite classes and why?
1pp and 3pp
>>47723476
Druid and Inquisitor. I like versatility and Wis-based classes, and I don't like Clerics
