How do you explain the fact that wizards don't just completely rule the world in your typical D&D campaign?
What is keeping them in check?
I mean, even a low level wizard could use spell like Charm Person and Alter Self to devastating effect in court or in any political setting. And don't even get me started on high level wizards. They're basically immortal omniscient demigods.
It seems like a magocracy is the only viable form of government in D&D.
>typical D&D campaign
>assuming Faerûn
Do you want the in-setting answer or the meta answer?
>>47673581
Faerun is the default D&D setting anon.
>>47673522
because most wizards don't give a fuck about governments, or world affairs in general. Their world is a world of wonder and discovery, not of courtrooms and diplomacy.
>>47673522
low base attack bonus
>>47673613
Well hey, some people prefer Dragonlance or Greyhawk, right?
Anyway, there's this -> >>47673620
In the pursuit of offensive magic, it ends up being pretty ostentatious once you start using it, and people tend to band together to oppose you.
Also, turning the country into a 'magocracy' sounds like something for the players to do themselves, not be present as a status quo.
>>47673522
Because those that become strong enough to be capable making an attempt are also capable of creating life and also their own personal plane of existence.
So yeah, Bob the 15th + level wizard would rather spend his two century study break fucking every single monster girl in his own private demiplane while he enjoys the finest material goods in the realm than take over diseased monty python land where people smell like piss and walk around in the mud.
In the off chance they do, they basically have to be paranoid about other equally powerful wizards only waiting for them to exhaust their high level spells as they try to do so.
Nothing is keeping them in check, and they are.
They just do it from behind the scenes so they don't get fucked by adventurers or powerful Outsiders.
>>47673620
That's true but there might be times where being the head of a govt is beneficial to their magical research. With armies at his disposal, a wizard could dispatch soldiers all over the world searching for magical relics. Just a thought...
>>47673645
I preferPoints of Light
There's nothing actually stopping a single benevolent wizard from improving the living conditions of the entire material plane single handedly.
And they should, and dark forces should oppose them at every turn, and there's nothing wrong with that.
No one in these threads ever considers a benevolent wizard. It's always the same dick-wetting short-sided retardation, I'm sure, above this post.
>>47673659
If he ran a nation he could hire armies to capture these monster girls and collect taxes to fund his dungeon demiplane experiments. There is much to be gained from controlling large chunks of humanity
They do, who do you think creates those magic items?
Wizards
Who sells spellcasting services?
Wizards
Who gives out quests so they can focus on doing the really important shit?
Wizards
Who would ever need so much gold?
Wizards who never get enough material components
>>47673522
>How do you explain the fact that wizards don't just completely rule the world in your typical D&D campaign?
They usually do.
>>47673713
Or he spends the 6 seconds to 11 minutes required to bind or summon said monster girl who, lets not forget here, comes in eager to please him to the best of her abilities and serves him well for the duration and go straight to fucking it.
Wizards have knowledge
they are aware of what happens to souls on the Outer Planes
therefore, they know that being good, or at least a good-leaning neutral, is the only way to not be butt-fucked to all eternity*
So why wouldn't wizards do good?
*Lichdom is always an option, but it's surprisingly shortsighted, they'll spend more time/money/effort hiding their phylactery and own evil aura then they will researching magic
*gods exist, wizards know damn well gods exist, and yet they almost never try to get in their good graces, why?
Stop assuming 3.5, you absolute retard. Every time this cancerous thread pops up, everybody immesiately refers to this broken edition, while in 5e casters are not nearly as godly.
>>47673787
OP here.
I had 5e in mind when I made this thread although I'm not referring to any edition in particular.
Even in 5e Charm Person is a level 1 spell and Alter Self is a level 2 spell which means that even a low level wizard could get away with anything. Just think what you could do if you had the power to impersonate anyone and charm people.
What exactly have wizards "lost" since 3.5 in terms of power?
wizards hate the fuck out of each other
they cannot help it or control it at all
but it overrides every other consideration
and prevents them from being meaningfully constructive
>>47673787
>those alternating 7s
>relation of 4 to 8 and 6 to 3
boy do I love perceived number patterns
Not OP, but I was assuming he was talking 2nd, I've been listening to the Icewind Dale books as of late and the second one has the wizard Dendybar of Luskan as a villain.
>>47673827
Why do wizards hate each other in your setting?
Just fiat to keep them from being too strong together?
>>47673756
>gods exist, wizards know damn well gods exist, and yet they almost never try to get in their good graces, why?
Because when you realize you can achieve great things if you only studied and tried hard enough, then you become too proud to sell out like a bitch and suck up to God's like some sort of faggot cleric.
>>47673817
>What exactly have wizards "lost" since 3.5 in terms of power?
The ability to be played in a game not designed for 5 year old toddlers for a start.
>>47673859
not in my setting, in D&D generally
>>47673876
Never heard it, what edition is it from?
Numbers. Magic is powerful yes but a single mage can't defeat 100 soldiers charging him while being pinned down by crossbowman.
Whenever the mages try and get their shit together and unite, the kings and dukes get nervous and crush the mage conspiracy in its infancy.
>>47673872
2 EDGY
>>47673621
thanks for the chuckle mate
>>47673522
Several ways
>Play 5th Edition
Magic is way less OP there than in 3.5
>Make Wizards stick to a single school of magic
When playing 3.5/Pathfinder, I house-rule that using a type of magic consistently tends to cause your mana or magical energy to "adapt" to that kind of magic, making it easier to cast while making other magic harder. You can only cast level 1 spells from any school that isn;t your specialty school. (No Universalists)
>Keep sorceror bloodlines appropriately themed.
Same as wizards, sorcerors can only learn spells above level 1 if they fit with the "theme" of their bloodline. Same for witches and their patrons.
>>47673909
>Magic is way less OP there than in 3.5
Because?
Is it still super fast, totally safe, completely inexpensive, highly spammable, and have effects ranging wider than the stars?
>>47673880
It's not something you will read on page X of the Yth edition PHB. It's an insight you pick up from years at the table. Wizards are never satisfied by knowledge and power in themselves; they crave superiority over their erstwhile peers and teachers. Just part of the personality type it takes to be one of the greats, as with chess grandmasters.
>>47673872
Okay let's not turn this into another edition wars thread. There's already a thread for you to shitpost in.
>>47673887
You don't need to defeat an army to conquer a kingdom. Just Alter Self into the one of the king's advisors and Dominate/Charm Person. Or Charm the king to make you his successor then have him murdered. Just an example.
>>47673909
>Magic is way less OP there than in 3.5
How is this the case?
Just take a look at places like Thay in forgotten realms to answer this question. Low level wizards thinking they can get away with any crime because they can use charm person to make a patsy, or alter self to change their identity will get fucked real quick when they realize the peacekeeping forces are aware of said magic and probably even have mages of their own to deal with it.
High level god wizards either lose interest in the affairs of kings and empires because these are some of the few people aware of just how vast the multiverse is. The ones that don't are checked by other, equally powerful wizards who don't support a mageocracy.
All that said, personally I think this kind of setting is shit. Magic is more fun when its rare and dangerous like in Conan or song of ice and fire. Also fuck the whole concept of D&D magic item shops.
>>47673817
>even a low level wizard could get away with anything.
Not every NPC in setting should be such a chump that they haven't taken precautions against that. If it's a level 1 spell, then it's the sort of thing that is not an uncommone occurance, so people have found ways to deal with it.
For instance, a "dispel magic" cast on the person, or set up as magical item effect of walking through a specific archway of a heavily-protected castle, to guard against this will instantly get rid of the disguise, and leave the wizard exposed. Also, the spell only lasts 1 hour.
>>47673934
Sounds like your own table meta creeping into your facts.
Nothics
>>47673787
>5e casters are not nearly as godly.
>>47673909
>Magic is way less OP there than in 3.5
Could one of you please elaborate?
People keep claiming it, but never ever back it up with anything
>>47673934
So it's not actually anywhere?
>>47673620
Why the hell are people talking in absolutes like everyone in a class acts the exact same way?
>>47673928
Not the person you're asking, but generally it's a result of 5e's advantage/disadvantage system, where one can't stack numbers higher and higher forever through various self-buffs and break the game. It also seems a bit harder to get game-breaking things early-on, or perhaps the other classes seem to get useful early-game toys as well so it's not just a matter of "my BAB is higher so it's balanced!"
That being said, there are certain kinds of magic that still DO totally destroy the game... but so far I've found those to be mainly druid shape-shifting cheese and divine magic moreso than Wizards and Arcane Magic.
>>47673964
Off the top of my head
> no more buffs stacking
> spell power is based on slot level, not caster level
>>47673952
>Also fuck the whole concept of D&D magic item shops.
Have to agree with this one most of all. I don't mind 5e's approach to magic item commerce. It seems to make sense overall. And I think most magic items in-setting should be thought of by the populace with reverence, being handed down as family heirlooms, artifacts, or king's regalia, not bartered and traded like cattle.
Well, for starters, there are ACTUAL gods and demigods, fully able to keep them in check.
>>47673934
Not only do you succeed in saying nothing of substance, the only settings where your drivel has any standing has those same casters being checked by either their own kind or other powers in the setting, or have succeeded in taking over, ruining everything in the process.
>>47673964
Caster Levels are not a thing, in order to make a spell more powerful you must use a higher level slot.
They added the concentration economy. Most spells now require you to concentrate on them if they have a duration, meaning you can't simply have 12 buffs running at once.
A lot of very offensive spells were removed or toned down for 5e.
I prefer editions like Rules Cyclopedia and 4e where this isn't a problem.
>>47673756
>So why wouldn't wizards do good?
Because gods don't care whether you're GOOD, they only care about whether you serve them loyally and give out rewards in afterlife accordingly.
I feel like even in a magical world, the common man respects a king who is like them in some way. Wizards are strange people, not always able to inspire loyalty in the same way. They keep weird things in jars, mutter things in dead languages, bend people's minds and the environment a round them with a couple words. If a Mage rules, it should generally have to be through he shadows, or as a complete tyrant whose subjects are too afraid of his or her power to cross. And That kind of rule is not always as stable.
>>47673973
This
>>47673981
This
>>47674019
and This.
And 5e also gives the non-caster classes cool abilities that aren't just "hurrdurr I hit things harder". A huge example of this would be how fighters can actually take non-combat skills now. Saves have also been revamped in such a way that it's harder to brute-force your way over everyone's save rating just by having high INT.
Overall, pretty much EVERYTHING is balanced better in 5e than in any other version. You can still break the game, sure, but you're not running full-on "Ivory Tower Design Philosophy" like Pathfinder. A group of new players can all play different classes without worrying about what "tier" those classes are and still have fun without anyone feeling redundant or useless.
>>47673581
>>47673645
when was faerun the typical D&D setting?
Not that wizards doesn't give it a lot of preferential treatment, but still.
>>47673995
I've played a bit of 5e but they were short games that didn't bother utilizing any magic item purchasing. What is 5e's approach?
>>47673954
That's how I would explain it as well if it were not reflected across the campaign settings, from Azalin to Raistlin to Khelban, the whole nation of Thay, even a Gary Stu like Elminster can be jimmie rustled by not knowing something a fellow wizard does about magic, which hardly happens thanks to him being a Gary Stu with a close personal friendship with Mystra. It makes perfect sense, however, and lends verisimilitude to the settings, especially for those who have spent time in or around the ivory tower or even around the more driven sort of auto-didact. Also neatly answers OP's query, of course.
>>47673522
In the same way the army trains soldiers, I imagine the king trains wizards, and fighters. Even if 5% of them are loyal, that's still enough to repel most wizard forces that don't work together, and keep several in check. Until they reach "god" levels, they won't be able to do much withour organization, or support.
Most of the time the church and the 'kingdom' are connected, and so connected, that most of them would be working together, meaning they mostly have...the power of the gods.
>>47673972
did you need it to be a rule or something
>>47674017
so your argument is ... wizards foiling each other is evidence that they do not hate each other
>>47674072
Magic items aren't simply sold in shops, they're rare and often when they are sold, if at all, it is through reaching out to contact a buyer, or set up some kind of auction, like rare art pieces. If you have a magic item worth a fuckton of gold, you can't just waltz into some shop and get a fuckton of gold for it, it's more complex. All this stuff is in the DMG also, not the main rules, and it ultimately puts all purview of how magical items are treated, sold, and crafted in the hands of the DM.
Again? This shit AGAIN?!
This is the THIRD FUCKING TIME TODAY.
>>47673887
Wind wall for the crossbows, fly for the charging soldiers, and then take your leisure with killing them
>>47673972
It makes sense that characters of the same class are likely to share some personality traits, just as how people in the same IRL profession tend to, especially when excelling in that class requires that certain traits even be honed and further developed.
>>47673522
Easy. All of the noble bloodlines consist of Sorcerers, so any Wizard trying to take over is easily outnumbered by a bunch of low level casters.
Further, this means you don't need to have court mages or the like to identify magical effects or recognize certain spells.
If somebody claims to have been charmed or that somebody disguised themselves as them, that's far more likely to be taken seriously and investigated properly.
It makes far more sense than Wizards trying to rule. Fluff-wise they have to spend a lot of free time researching magic. Sorcerers have high Charisma, so are perfect for a court setting, and don't have to try as hard to cast spells.
Plus it makes for great family history, like what they're descended from and how great-great-grandad the half-dragon barbarian united the kingdom.
>>47673939
>You don't need to defeat an army to conquer a kingdom. Just Alter Self into the one of the king's advisors and Dominate/Charm Person. Or Charm the king to make you his successor then have him murdered. Just an example.
I suppose it depends on the monarch then, and the role of magic in the setting. One concept medieval societies had was the "divine right to rule", so the king may literally be protected by a god against that kind of thing.
Also that plan is really really obvious, and one of the first things that would be guarded against. It's so obvious, that it must have happened before in-setting, causeing people to go forward with the assumption that that kind of thing is a risk to people in positions of power, unless your wizard is literally the only low-level wizard in universe.
>>47674229
That all makes a lot of sense.
>>47673817
>5e Charm Person
Lasts an hour at best, and afterwards? The target knows you charmed them. That doesn't solve anything.
Alter Self is a bit better, but level 3 isn't quite as common, and has a similar time constraint. Yeah, a Wizard might be able to use that to stage a very nice assassination, but that doesn't give him control of the kingdom. He's also still going to need to roll Deception to act like the person. Probably with advantage, but it's not foolproof.
>>47674069
So which is it then?
Greyhawk?
Mystara?
Points of Light?
>>47673939
"Hey, this random guy showed up in court recently, was declared the heir, and then the king died within the hour."
Right, that isn't suspicious.
>>47673964
First, spells no longer scale with slots
Second, full casters have way less slots, and no bonus spells. You'll only have 1 of each spell level above 5th until the very end of your career when you get an extra 6th and 7th
Third, concentration means no Invisible, Flying Wizards, at least not without another caster nearby. And then if they hit that guy you're either falling or floating in the air like a sitting duck and about to be falling.
people who think wizards would have little trouble dominating societies seem to also think non-wizards are all or mostly morons
which is a wizardly way of thinking
so here is just one example of why wizards do not always dominate societies
>>47674360
100 times this.
>>47673522
Well, at least three countries are ruled by wizards, wholly or most of it.
That said, some mages aren't brave enough to try, don't think they should rule it all, or are simply comfortable as they are.
And at least in one country, the leader of the pantheon wouldn't like it, and burn the wizard with a beam of focused sunlight like if he was lasing a fly.
>>47673522
Think about it like this for a minute.
Just to become a doctor takes at least a decade of study, work, and slave labor (read as "internship"). That's just to become a regular doctor, starting out. So to be able to study to be a wizard ought to take a hell of a lot more time, considering that they have a huge range of knowledge to take in.
There's potions, which I imagine require a study of plants and biology, to use whatever plant and animal parts that are needed for what the potion requires.
You'll also need complex mathematics because complex geometrical designs on floors don't just draw themselves perfectly. Not to mention that a demon will eat your face and use your corpse as a toilet if you screw it up. That would considerable cut down on the amount of wizards or such in the world.
There's even mental exercises. These kinds of things would be something on the range of mentally overcoming the stress that comes from channeling the forces of creation. Think Hindu monks that are able to drive nails through their body and not feel the pain.
You'll even have to learn basic combat, because you'll be expected at some point to defend yourself against and fight whatever evil monstrosity is attacking. You're pretty much the medieval fantasy equivalent of a tactical nuke as a wizard.
Finally, I imagine that being able to learn to become a wizard would cost a considerable amount of money. It'd be like going to collage, but for a decade or two instead of just a couple years. That would get rid of the peasant classes and some of the middle class.
That's just the stuff I can come up with on the top of my head. If anything, the number of wizards in a fantasy world would probably be relatively small compared to the total population.
>>47673872
But every D&D edition is like that.
D&D is the beer and pretzels RGP system.
>>47673522
in howl's moving castle all mages learn magic at magic school an have to swear a magical oath to come when the royal academy summons them, for example in times of war to fight for the king, in exchange for even learning magic in the first place. so everyone is magically bound to serve the king basically. tho if you're powerful enough you don't really have to come immediately or anything, but thats rare and those wizards are often kept in line through force.
>>47674072
It's entirely up to the GM. They have recommended buying/selling prices but it's in a ridiculously broad range (uncommon is 500-5,000 gp) so it seems clear they never really intended for them to be part of any kind of balanced economy. Through the options given, you roll on a loot table to see if there's magic items in whatever treasure you find. The DMG doesn't really give any other advice on it besides "it's hard to find"
Another thing to note is that 5e was designed without magic items being considered part of leveling so PCs do not need any to stay competent from 1-20. Though on the other side of that some magic items are comically overpowered if PCs do get them; staves that dump free high level spells on PCs, stat altering gear that renders whatever boosts you may have chosen with your ASIs wasted, etc. Really the best approach in 5e is to simply ignore magic items
>>47673522
Divine fiat.
>>47674628
>If anything, the number of wizards in a fantasy world would probably be relatively small compared to the total population.
The number of kings was relatively small compared to the total population, yet they still ruled.
Now imagine those few wield the power to shape reality, if even in their own narrow field of study.
And that because there's so few of them they can barely keep tabs on each other.
And some of them can literally level armies and become immortal.
Kings ruled men through the claim of divine right, with virtually nothing but word to prove it. A wizard can actually call down a lightning bolt. It would be easy for even the weakest among them to position themselves as rulers, and nobody would stop be around to stop them. Hell, most would clamor to be ruled by the wise and noble wizards, for who has more right to power than those who can shape it out of the air with thoughts? They wouldn't even need to rule directly, they could be like the church, granting their favor to kings of their choosing and directing their actions under threat of violence or excommunication
>>47673522
>even a low level wizard could use spell like Charm Person and Alter Self to devastating effect in court or in any political setting
>government knows this and bans the use of magic in session
>wizard tries to disguise with alter self
>guards with arcane sight throw him out
>wizard tries to cast charm person
>target passes will save, or
>guards/speaker of the house sees spell being cast, resulting in
>wizard getting imprisoned by guards with protection from mental influence
We've already established that wizards are super common in this world and would be able to get elected so it naturally follows that all those expensive arcane sights would be available :^)
>>47673522
only one wizard. he killed the others.
>>47673522
It exists, it's called sword and sorcery.
Low fantasy and high fantasy usually have more mundane rulers.
And why is that so? Because that's the premises.
Same reason Cyberpunk have megacorps, it's needed for the story.
In universe? Loyalty, other wizards, royals having high Will saves, and wizards being poor rulers (making them easy targets for assassination).
>How do you explain the fact that the military doesn't just completely rule the world in your typical modern campaign?
>What is keeping them in check?
>I mean, even a colonel could use is troops and weapons to devastating effect. And don't even get me started on high-command. They have enough firepower to destroy the world more than twice, and have the best intel network and political connexions imaginable.
>It seems like a junta or a military dictatorship is the only viable form of government in modern settings.
>>47673522
>How do you explain the fact that wizards don't just completely rule the world in your typical D&D campaign?
because the world would be ruled by bards instead.
the bard has enormous CHA, 9th level spellcasting (with a list tailored toward manipulation and control) and is a great skillmonkey second only to the rogue. they are also a little more sturdy than wizards, which is useful to avoid the peril of assassination and other dangers. they can poach spells from other lists too, if there's anything else they need. in other words, the bard is an unstoppable charm offensive - they can sweep into town and with a mixture of incredible persuasion, charisma, and a little magic, have everyone declare them king by lunchtime. if they are challenged by a wizard, they only need to convince some other wizards or high-level characters to give them a hand, while the wizard - with their likely poor CHA and social skills - won't find that nearly so easy.
>>47673581
If it as Faerun the wizards actually have a far harder time taking over.
In the Forgotten Realms most important people carry around a few gems either as jewelry or as a "lucky charm", because it is well known and documented that certain gemstones can influence, or even disable certain magics against their bearers.
Hell, wearing a diamond anywhere near your head or neck makes you immune to spells that try to fuck with your dreams, and gives a significant bonus to resist any enchantments/charms.
>>47673522
The fact that you always think people forget that saves exist while trolling.
>>47673522
>wizards
>working together
>to form world government
Yeah, nah.
None of them want that job.
>>47673522
But the big bads are almost always evil wizards, demon lords, dragons, or otherwise some kind of evil high level magic user.
I thought wizards really did rule the world in 90% of settings.
>>47673689
>short-sided
bruh
>>47673522
>How do you explain the fact that wizards don't just completely rule the world in your typical D&D campaign?
the fact that d&d is fantasy and is not hard fantasy
>>47673522
>not using the tippyverse
http://www.giantitp.com/forums/showthread.php?222007-The-Definitive-Guide-to-the-Tippyverse-By-Emperor-Tippy
>D&D is a setting where there are no large scale defenses against teleportation magic. It is impossible to prevent an enemy from dropping his entire military right into the middle of your nation with teleportation circles whenever he chooses to do so. The only viable way to defend yourself is to concentrate all of your vital military infrastructure in a relatively small area and concentrate your forces on that area; meaning that you will always have forces on hand to deal with a potential enemy attack. The traditional D&D towns and villages simply can’t be defended because your enemies can drop thousands of troops into them in under a minute and then evacuate back out the next minute.
>>47683630
Also known as lazy GM.
>>47676216
Clerics have magic and get their power from a god so why would wizards be in charge?
When you get right down to it there are enough groups that could make a move to grab power that the guy in charge would be the one who can stop them fighting or play them off against each other, this means someone who can spend their time keeping an eye on the 5 or 6 gods that matter, the merchants, the land owners, any wizard above level 6, every sorcerer bloodline, any warlocks above level 8, any warlock patrons who seems to have political interests, other nations, the common folk, dragons, druids and every other would be power player out there.
All numbers are ass pulls.
TL:DR ruling the world takes too much time if you want to study magic.
>>47673522
Spellfire addressed this... Powerful Zhentarim mage was fucked by a rock to the head.
>>47673522
Because bigger things are keeping wizards in check.
That said, there's a magocracy forming in which even the peasants are getting to know a little magic, and the golden age is coming on fast. Mechanically, everyone gets Magic Initiate, picking from the wizard list, and can't pick offensive spells.
>>47673522
They do and other wizards.
Just about everyone important is a sorcerer that can trace their line back several generations, control collars are popular and the superpowers have teams of wizards hooked up to WMDs at all times and pointed at each other.
>>47674173
Ok. Turns out they brought a loyal mage with them too, and now you have to duel the mage AND the 100 soldiers, assuming the other wizard doesn't just cast dispel on you and let you plummet into the ground from 80 feet up.
>>47674173
How do you plan to concentrate on both of those spells at once?
I bet you're claiming that you'll turn invisible and charm the king at the same time too.
>>47684738
And then the 'loyal' wizard turns on them, since now there's nothing stopping him!
No sense of right and wrong!
>>47673522
Alter Self is pretty dangerous politically, but in a setting where it's common, people in power would likely carry countermeasures.
Charm Person isn't really too much of a threat in the long term, since they'll know that they've been played in an hour at most, and it will only make an antisocial wizard slightly better at convincing.
>>47677601
Really? Is that in the book? Seems like it would be essential gear for PCs.
>>47684832
>likely carry countermeasures.
like?
>>47684815
But he leaves exactly one third of the 100 soldiers alive, and another third intelligent unbound undead, because he can.
And then he gives them all shotguns.
>>47684910
Witnesses.
Wand of Detect Magic, dispelling dust, spell scrolls, an orchestra loud enough to disrupt the mage's concentration, enchanted house.
Or demanding that mage-nobles do something that would pull their concentration away from the disguise spell.
Or, if Alter Self is common, politicians might use "It was an imposter!" to excuse their wrongdoings.
>>47684913
So that's 33 dead 33 alive 33 undead and 1 a third alive a third dead?
By the time he's finished that last soldier the King will have sent someone to deal with him.
>>47674229
>>47674229
So instead of wizards ruling the world, it's sorcerers. Still makes it hard for other classes to shine though...
>>47684996
That last soldier will be badass, though.
>>47685012
And spend the rest of his days hunting down uppity wizards as revenge.
>>47676954
>How do you explain the fact that the military doesn't just completely rule the world in your typical modern campaign?
>What is keeping them in check?
>I mean, even a colonel could use is troops and weapons to devastating effect. And don't even get me started on high-command. They have enough firepower to destroy the world more than twice, and have the best intel network and political connexions imaginable.
Military coups occur frequently in the modern world.
The problem is that the colonel has to count on the fact that his troops are more loyal to him than they are to the king or president or whatever.
A wizard on the other hand doesn't need an army to conquer a kingdom.
>>47685111
Adventurers, folks.
>>47684592
Pretty shitty wizard if he didn't have a spell setup to prtect against that.
In my setting magic as a dicipline is a slower way to gain political clout than, you know, being a politician, if you're smart enough to learn magic in the first place.
That being said the most powerful ruler is an extremely long lived sorcerer king who inexplicably has magical attunement thousands of times greater than most people
>>47673679
the best setting structure hands down
>>47683630
>hard fantasy
You can still have internal consistency and credible worldbuilding without being 'hard' fantasy. Most DnD settings don't have those because they're lazily-made clusterfucks, not because of some kind of genre.
>>47684551
>Clerics have magic and get their power from a god so why would wizards be in charge?
This is true, you'd probably find power struggles between theocracies and the wizard lords, with the outcome depending on how strong/interventionist the gods are.
You'll get druids in the wildernesses too.
>>47685122
>A wizard on the other hand doesn't need an army to conquer a kingdom.
He does if he wants to keep it.
>>47685163
Shit writing, as usual.
>>47673872
>muh swine
>>47673827
yeah this is def a thing
why DO all wizards hate each other? is it because the only thing in human nature that would compel someone with talent to pursue knowledge with all their might is sheer unrelenting competitiveness and the need for glory and verification of self-worth thus causing them to see other wizards as competitors for glory rather than allies for truth?
>>47685292
In my setting, aquiring really powerful magic requires terrible acts that only the horrifically selfish would even consider. There's also a social stigma against wizards grouping up more than a handful because of several awful attrocities that groups of powerful magic users did in the past. This even extends to clerics of most gods
>>47673522
Because even wizards aren't immune to a dagger in the back.
>>47673522
How do you explain the fact that warlords and generals don't just completely rule the world in your typical D&D campaign?
What is keeping them in check?
I mean, even a petty warlord can get an occupation force together to kill anyone that opposes them and carve out a kingdom of their own, as wlel as leverage their soldiers to good effect in a court or political setting. And don't even get me started on high level generals. They're basically in command of armies that can topple nations.
It seems like a military junta is the only viable form of government in D&D.
>>47673522
First time a wizard tries something like this the whole world will start hunting down wizards and any other kind of arcane magic user everywhere.
Not even gods can do as they please, what made you think a simple man would?
>>47673522
Most wizards don't optimize their spell selection - they just research/develop spells close to what they know or feel like. Most of them are bookish diviners or transmuters, they don't have spells that lend use to adventuring or conquest.
Furthermore, there's very limited resources in the world for a wizard to progress, and most of them are level 1-3.
>>47685009
How?
>>47685364
selfish people won't hand with other leeches, wolves prefer to hang with heard of sheep.
if a bunch of wizard ever got together they'd just be mad jealous and mad suspicious. they'd probably take each other out as fast as they could team up.
>>47673679
My compatriot!
>>47673522
Because Priests get more Hit points, more Base Attack Bonus and in addition to the Good Will Save they also get a goo Fortitude Save.
>>47673909
>those house rules
What the fuck is wrong with you?! That shit is TERRIBLE. please NEVER GM EVER
Well in my games I just handwave it as the wizards "grew up", switching to loli form and being cute recluses that sometimes have social gatherings with other powerfully magic beings that reached a similar endgame.
>>47673679
mah nidhogg
>>47673522
Well I typically play 5e, so a wizard would be fucked using enchantments on people.
It's a pretty good system; wizards stay in check.
>>47673817
How did you manage to play 5e like 3.5? Do the NPCs of your world just stop functioning once the players leave?
Charm person literally lets them know they were fucked with, and only gives advantage on skill checks. Alter self doesn't mean they can perfectly mimic another person without feats or class abilities. Even at high levels it is very hard to manipulate with magic with no consequence.
>>47685448
Because wizards can easily kill them and/or enslave them.
>>47673522
It's a non issue in most editions of dnd save 3.5
>>47689274
>It's a non issue in most editions of dnd save the most popular and widespread edition
>>47673939
Charm person isn't strong enough to get someone to declare you the heir. Not even fucking close
>>47689298
Hey he said in a dnd game. It's only a problem in one particular version of dnd game.
>>47673522
Because the churches are already in charge, "basically immortal omniscient demigods' lose out to actual gods. In any situation where you pit two groups of people against each other, the group that can bring each other back to life is going to come out on top.
GOO pact warlocks can make someone permanently their slave, if anyone's in charge it's them.
>>47689328
>he group that can bring each other back to life is going to come out on top.
Sure, if they own the fantasy equivalent of De Beers
>>47690822
They do, because they came out on top.
>>47674229
Actually all the nobles are Warlocks, with same extremely powerful patron.
