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>it's a Damiano giving Redeemers Deadeye episode

More like Cryx players are analy devastated general

New list building site: conflictchamber.com

Still a work in progress, but it's more updated than forwardkommander. Will be updated to mk3 pretty immediately after its release.

>>47595566
more like cygnar players sucked soles and schick dry every night for years general

>>47595652


>Cryx still whining about Cygnar

>Mercs are unironically going to be masters tier competitive

Say hello to the better green faction, undead friend

>>47595703
>>Mercs are unironically going to be masters tier competitive
what gives?

>>47595703
mercs and khador being awesome is something i can legit get behind.

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>>47595703
I'm torn. Trolls have been my jam for years but I suddenly find myself rethinking this. Mercs are my other faction and they're pretty amazing. Maybe one of the best factions in Mk3

Trolls are a step above Legion and Skorne at least but Hordes is dumpster fire tier garbage now.

>>47595891
*most of hordes is

Minions is a top 5 faction now imo

Especially vs hordes. No one fucks hordes like minions do.

>>47595703
I think everyone is a little booty blasted about cygnar

>>47595941
2 out of 5 Hordes factions are pretty bad. 3 > 2, therefore most of hordes is dumpster fire tier garbage.

Minions and Circle are amazing, anything else is hysterically bad. At least Trolls doesn't get fucked as hard by Cryx now.

>>47595944
As a khador player idgaf

Bring on all the hunters

>>47595980
>thinking legion is garbage
this is the most retarded thing i have seen in these threads this week and that's saying something considering the ongoing kara sloan shitstorm

>>47595980
Well we *can* take 2 blood hags now. I feel like everyone has access to anti tough with how much grievous wounds has been spread about

>>47596129
And Sniper fucks tough straight-up now.

I missed what happened, what's up with Cygnar?

>>47596165
Everything got better

Caine2 can now magic bullet for free off every single hit

>>47596088
Legion is trash, below average at best. They're better than Skorne at least but Trolls and Circle are vastly superior and pretty much all of Warmachine is light years ahead of Legion

Get with the times anon, Legion is shit tier now

>>47596212
>trolls
good troll anon, pun intended

>>47595730


The right casters got either direct buffs or are incidentally buffed from various mechanics being changed, namely upkeep hate getting nerfed

This is coupled with two other things

1) Merc jacks across the board got buffed and the nomad is a S++ tier unit. It's easily the most optimized unit in the game, bar none. Other merc jacks are still good to usable. Magnus Jack spam is completely viable.

2)while merc units didn't necessarily get super buffed (besides Croes) what's important is cost. Steelheads stayed nearly the same power level with cavalry being slightly nerfed overall. The difference is in points. Steelheads are as good as they used to be while being absurdly cheap. While most people have started to notice they have to take less units in a 75 point army than they did in a Mk2 50 point army, my steelhead list lost a grand total of one model. One.


Rifleman are also genuinely good and are a fucking steal for 14 points, especially with Damiano.

Having regular access to Idrians might also change things, they're legit.

>>47595984
I'm starting khador, who do you think is worth investing in (casters and jacks) to start?

figure ill also get MOW and IFP black dragons

>>47596367
Get Butcher1, Butcher2, and Butcher3.

>>47596212
hey, i don't play circle and they're not represented in my meta, can you walk through how they got so much better exactly? aside from the dog's stupid new animus, i saw that

>>47596367
Sorscha1, Butcher1, Irusk 2 are the first 3 casters I would get. For jacks, you want Behemoth,a pair of Juggernauts, Beast 09, Ruin, and a Berserker to start with.

>>47596426


They didn't get better, they got tenderly caressed by the nerf bat

Everyone else just became shit. They were already top tier and stayed that way

>>47596435
Also, for 90% of your lists, your jacks are probably going to be Behmoth + a juggernaut or berserker. Behemoth is the best heavy in the game and is an auto-include in the majority of lists. The only one I haven't brought him with much is sorscha1, and that's because I like shield guarding beast and having both is way too expensive. But he'd be fantastic with her freezing stuff for bombards and is worth taking if you don't want beast.

>>47596292
Trolls are vastly superior to Legion at this point. It's kind of sad how far the dragon factions have fallen

>>47596582

c'mon now, tenacity was good but it wasn't THAT good

>>47596582
It's design space for the new hordes faction. They don't have to work too hard on them if the bar for hordes is lower.

>>47596435
replace the zerker with a grolar

>>47596582
>still paying the tough tax with all the new anti-tough hate
yeah. better. ok. sure.

>>47595703
Convergence looks like it's going to be rocking as well, to be honest.

It only got a few nerfs and quite a few more buffs.

>>47596435
why those 3 war casters?

>>47596502
what about colossal?

TENTATIVE SKORNE WARLOCK TIER LIST

>God tier
Hexeris2

>High tier
Xerxis1
Xerxis2
Mordikaar

>Solid tier
Hexeris1
Xekaar
Zaal1
Zaal2
Makeda2
Morghoul2
Rasheth

>Low tier
Morghoul1
Makeda3

>Trash tier
Makeda1

>>47596671

I don't agree with the guy but legion is still mostly paying the tenacity tax on our stats while tenacity is outright gone

>>47596710

Xerxis3 and Hexeris1 ought to be way lower, at least. Rasheth way higher.

>>47596682
COC looks great, most of the nerf ive seen have been what i call the global nerf (general changes to recursion, loss of purify for targeted upkeep hate, etc), with better induction, better aurora feat, buffs to the TEP and axiom, etc. pretty stoked.

>>47596710
>No Naaresh

Fuck you for forgetting Skorne-Budda

>>47596787
Lucant lost old Watcher, which is honestly his biggest nerf.

He also lost shield guard, which is pretty annoying.

>>47596818
The Buddha didn't stick swords through his nipples to get off.

>>47596841


>Lucant lost shield guard

Uhh

>>47596857
On himself.

He personally lost Shield Guard.

>>47596853
Skorne Budda, however, does.

>>47596841
that's true with watcher, though thinking an effect like that would stick around would be pretty silly anyway

>>47596872
i don't consider this a real problem.

>>47596872


I literally never ever actually considered that he had it.

>>47596939
It made it easier to move damage around against high shooting armies, gave you another shield guard to protect your support models, and had some cornercase situations where it was quite useful(against Nemo2's gun, to use one example).

Picking up the +2 DEF variant against of the +2 ARM variant of the defensive spells is also annoying.

>>47596687
Because they're great for starting the faction. Irusk2 is the best infantry caster, Sorscha1 is the best assassin, Butcher1 is great at supporting a combined arms force while being able to smash faces if he gets a chance.

I'd run a colossal with harkevich or strakhov probably

>>47596671
You must be crazy. Everything went down in cost in Trolls. Tough is basically worthless in Mk3, you're not paying any points for it.

>>47597042
I wouldn't say it's worthless, people actually have to bring the anti tough models.

>>47597042
Tough+ steady is money though, like what champs have.

Anyone got Lylyth 1 and/or 2 dojo going?

>>47596969
>Picking up the +2 DEF variant against of the +2 ARM variant of the defensive spells is also annoying.
agreed, i was really hoping it was the ARM one

>>47597090
Set your models on fire, buy sloan.

>>47597090
Yeah, I'm actually working on both right now.

>>47597003
ok so then for irusk, would the MOW and IFP be good? i saw how winter guard infantry got worse but rifles got better, are either good with him too

>>47597126

Oh? What'cha thinking? Bolt Thrower seems a given for both, and a Succubus for at least Lylyth1.

>>47597110
I guess I can kind of understand why, at least.

I just wish we weren't stuck at DEF12 with so much of our shit.

>>47597154
It depends really on your overall playstyle I think. Right now both would function fantastically with Irusk1 and Irusk2 That said what are you looking for the most in the faction, do you want to run jack heavy? Infantry stronk with lots of axes or something in the middle? if you're not sure yet I'd say pick up the new battlebox as Kozlov is looking like a very fine intro caster and a juggernaut and decimator will go a long ways especially with the new focus mechanics and Rof rules.

I'm looking at the leaked Khador cards and I have to ask... Are Black Dragons really better than vanilla IFP now? With a Kovnik they get precision strike and vanilla have a way to get pathfinder. Thoughts?

>>47596582
I don't think Cryx is in a terrible place, for me it just seems like there are less choices thats all. We can still delete armor and infantry

>>47597161
Lylyth1 +30
-Succubus -4
-Carnivean -19
-Angelius -17
-Seraph -14
-Bolt Thrower -11
-Shredder -4
Annyssa -8
Forsaken x2 -8
Shepherd x2 -2
Raptors (M) -18

My notion here is that the Carnivean and/or Angel exist to benefit from Blood Lure and a Witch Mark'd Parasite on something big after being Slipstreamed forward. The Shredder is a finisher. Raptors and Annyssa also do a lot more when parasite is involved.

Lylyth2 +28
-Succubus -4
-Zuriel -18
-Ravagore -19
-Ravagore -19
-Bolt Thrower -11
Forsaken -4
Shepherd x2 -2
Archers + UA -18
Deathstalker x2 -8

Basically the point of this is a ton of shots, 4 scatters, and Zuril being able to do multiple Quick Work sprays in melee. On feat turn (which you'll want to be ASAP) the Archers put out 3 POW 21 arcing fire CRAs, the Deathstalkers kill 8 models by themselves, and lylyth either kills 6 or she and the ravagores scrap a couple heavies on their own.

thinking of replacing Zuriel and the Forsaken with a Seraph (14) and Naga (8)

>>47597251
I haven't taken black dragons yet in mk3

Vanilla IFP can pop their minifeat to run or charge and still have shield wall for +4, while black dragons only get +3 from their minifeat now. Since I often bring great bears + kovnik, the IFP is a smart choice because of the kovnik giving them precision strike anyway.

If you're really strapped for points, BDP is 2 points less than IFP+ kovnik. Otherwise, I'd take the IFP. I don't think side step is particularly valuable on the bdp.

>>47597266
I think it's more just frustration that some of the changes seem excessive. Like I think everyone would admit that Gaspy2 needed to be changed. But the scope of the change just felt like too much. Same with Deneghra's feat among other things

>>47597309
Really, the only case is if you have iron flesh and you pop iron zeal while in shield wall. In that case, black dragons will probably survive boosted pow 12s and the IFPs won't. But if you really need that, take manowar.

>>47597309
Side Step is just good for more jamming, is what I'm thinking. BDs just have a lot more built in, but it's not necessarily better, just does a different thing

>>47597230
rly i always loved khadors jack design, thats the biggest reason they interest me bc they can finally actually run them but i also want to use some of the heavier infantry more than anything since i like the MOW and IFP armor a lot too

>>47597351
If you want more jamming though, an IFP charge can pop minifeat to get a 3 inch reposition and shield wall after the charge. That's more than the 2 inch side step.

>>47597330
Yeah. I mean d3+6 would have been prefered, if they have to impliment a random feat
Denny2 might still have some game, I'm not sure. I p much mainlined lich for the last year, I never played denny1 or 2

>>47597304

Interesting stuff, thanks. Don't feel the singular Angelius can get enough done on its own? I've always felt you need two to reliably kill heavies.

Im very curious that theme forces are a core of design philosophy.

Like what do they include?

For the people that are praying for their unit to make sense, this may be the last saving grace.

>>47597596
it's also there for the repulse. but a boosted POW 14 AP with parasite will knock something out or be super mean to a war caster who can only shunt 5

So what exactly is PP trying to do with MK3?

>>47597645

We can only pray

>>47597744

Reel things back in, toning down on "alpha or die", retarded ARM skew, and extreme threat ranges.

>>47597744

I can't really tell... Honestly I think they have no clue either. They have said a lot of things about how they were changing the game and all of it is either a complete lie or a half truth. The rules support the notion that the game is supposed to be more centered around warjacks, but the best factions in the game are the ones whose infantry is still clearly the best option.

goddamn this turned into a bitching fest.

I can't wait for MK4 when they remove the last rules that might had made the game anyway complex.

Maybe everything is represented by emojis on front of the card

>>47597744
Rock 'em Sock 'em Warnouns.

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>>47597874
Yeah, I prefer stuff like mkI Great Bears with 2 cards filled with text

>>47597950
Was Great Bears even that bad?
I always though things like Cankerworm or Withershadow Combine were the real evil
>you have HOW many special rules again

>>47597794
what factions are those now aside from khador

>>47597744

they cut out a bunch of the more esoteric rules to streamline the game

>>47598059
Problem with Great Bears was that three models that looks quite a bit alike each had their own, unique rules they provided the unit.

Telling them apart was a fucking nightmare.

>>47598059
the way they streamlined stuff that previously triggered on wreck markers was nice. buff for canks really. though i am sad about the loss of Dark Industries, it never happened much but was just fun when you could live the dream with it

>>47597744
add more jacks to the game and cut down on negative play experiences.

a lot of people wanted them to basically look at A+ and S-tier stuff, and raise all the B, C, D, F stuff up to A or S. that's a reason for the disappointment. Because PP decided instead that they mostly wanted to take A- and S-tier stuff as well as the C, D, F, and move it all into about the B range (since putting everything at S tier would be a mark 1 repeat). Oh but keep cygnar at S-tier because why the fuck not ;)

okay how do I 3Nemo in Mk3?

Jacks all day every day?

Maybe stormblades? upper kek

I only have these jacks currently. Please kill me

-defender
-stormclad
-charger

I have a lot of infantry for some fucking reason. Plenty of mercs too

>>47598821
you'd need to take all 3 jacks for his WJP anyway. i suggest a thunderhead, he got gud. or can never go wrong with dynamo

Vayl1
-Ravagore
-Seraph
-Scythean
-Typhon
Grotesque Banshees (Full)
Forsaken x2
Grotesque Assassin
Spell Martyr x2

Dunno if that's enough infantry or not, haha.

>>47598853


If you had to pick between the two, which would you do?

My store is running 30% off everything until L&L and they have both the resculpt thunderhead and Dynamo

Any advice on infantry picks? Is it actually worth going lightning skew?

>>47598916
Lightning skew, at least in mk2, was super fun, but not crazily competitive. There were a couple of neat tricks it could pull off though. N3mo's gun, chain lightning, and the storm strider could all boost electro leaps. So under feat, could get 4 dice electro leaps. Which are hillarious.

Dynamo under feat and fully loaded will blow a fuck huge hole in the side of anything. Same with storm blades.

Mk3, tough to say quite yet.

>>47598916
if you have to pick, dynamo is really, really good. 4 scaling shots, and he's no slouch in melee, and his Nemo bond is also great.

>>47598897
Vayl always wants a Raek. why not swordsmen? i assume because of force barrier + incited sprays? banshees still has victim stats. stealth helps though, sure.

it is admittedly a little hard not to be annoyed when the charger is 9 points and the naga is 8. or the nomad is 11.

>>47597790
Im not really sure if they accompmished that, for example I expect there will be several casters that bring nothing but jacks wich are historically high arm and have many boxes

>>47599099
i sorta doubt it. fact is that heavy/WM infantry eats jacks, and light infantry eats heavy infantry. there's a rock paper scissor balance between the three things.

>>47598975
And just wait until you run into Krueger2.

>>47598122

Cygnar and mercs

What medium based infantry lists will be viable in Mk3?

>>47596710

>Hexeris God Tier

Who fucking gives a shit about Channeller on Razor Worms? What the fuck are you going to do, Ashes to Ashes all those jack heavy battlegroups to death? Hexy2 has been a mediocre caster ever since High Def skew was phased out of the meta. He is definitely better at what he does, but what he does hasn't been relevant in years.

>Xerxis2 High tier

Yea, I totally want a Battle Engine warlock who camps on 1 every turn after upkeeping and casting the other spell that is half the reason to take him in the first place.

>Mordikaar high tier

Revive nerf is bad. Almost as bad is losing Ghost Walk for a shitty battlegroup version of it.
>m-muh void spirits

>no Naaresh in high tier

Lamentation is now fucking awesome, not only does it actually work now but it fucks with a lot of animi too. Naaresh is also fucking amazing at brawling with other battlegroups, so he's in his element at the start of mk3.

>Rasheth mid tier

The real God King of Skorne is now Rasheth. Almost nothing of importance nerfed, everything good about him buffed. The only reason anyone could think Rasheth isn't the best warlock in Skorne is if you thought Chain Gang was the only reason you ever brought him. If you think like this then fucking kill yourself because you have no chance at exaltation.

>>47597790

>toning down on retarded ARM skew
>in a world with nuMan of Wars and Magnus2 Nomad spam

hamilton said on the legion facebook he's starting work on a legion lock after l&l but gave no details. I wouldn't mind seeing a new saeryn/rhyas from some point after dragonfather

>>47600357

>hamilton is working on a legion model

News at 11

>>47600357

Waaaay too early for a third form.

>>47600394

who'd be your choice to get one, or would you prefer someone new?

>>47600357
>>47600540
>>47600394
>>47600381

isn't this that character warbeast/nyss warlord solo?

How do I get the most out of Croaks? I just put the models together and I enjoyed building them and I like their rules. I want to become a Croak whore, how do I make this work?

>>47600540

I'd be interested in Thagrosh3.

>>47600080
khador and coc

>>47600080
Convergence ones.

Perfs might even be slightly worth it

>>47599523
They also didnt really curtail extreem alphas when Sloan has a 44" threat and lylith3's is 30"

>>47600254
i think the point is DEF and ARM skew is thematic for some factions and not others. Khador clearly should have ARM skew as a theme. others, not so much.

>>47595603
Got a way to toggle the mk3 site on for building new lists now?

>>47600357
yawn god please not a twins3. fucking please. something new. or bethayne2. or hell vayl3. anything but more fucking twins

>>47600615
he said it was a lock. he also has the new character beast and maybe the swordsman. though the swordsman and hell mouth will probably be available at L&L as they're in Primal.

>>47600672
ravagores. blightbringer. other fire sources.

>>47600218
This anon speaks the truth. pMorg and Mak3da are worth a look as well.

>>47600712
Perfs got better with Aurora, for sure. Are they that good? Ehhh. I'm working on some infantry leapfrog notions with them. But they still don't do much and that PP thinks they do is really weird and irritating.

>>47600715
sloan's 44" alpha is garbage in terms of actual quality or work-doing, but from an abstract standpoint i agree.

>>47600394
>>47600749

I just figured post-dragonfather twins have a good reason for a big changeup

>>47600615

no he said he'll be starting it from the art so it's something new

>>47600845
they do, but saeryns whole snowflakey "woo i can keep secrets from dragon daddy" thing is just kind of old at this point imo and before they put out twins3 they could at least make twins2 decent :\

>>47600845

They also JUST went Epic in the last book.

>>47600805


Like, what if perforators got Trash on their guns?

Suddenly they would make sort of sense

>>47600845
>post-dragonfather
Did I miss something lore wise?

Is Everblight kill?

>>47600805
She's got a pocket assassination with them, especially since she can find spots for her mitigator to get to their caster/other shit she wants dead

>>47600904

Saeryn severed the twins' mental connection to Everblight, in order to make the right decision to save the world from Toruk devouring everything. Everblight was being a whiny bitch and wanted the Athanc shard even though he'd die in the long run as a result. As of the end of the book the twins seem AWOL, but they're still Everblight's warlocks in 3e so who knows

>>47600902
They didn't change. the leaked card didn't change and the insider thread said they didn't change. So...

>>47600933


To be fair Magnus is still a merc and Caine is still Cygnar in the decks so they might all have to wait for their next incarnations

>>47600933
So I guess twins are now the token 'good' everblight warlocks? Or at least less vile.

>>47600902
There's a lot fewer easy arm buffs, the bane of unboosted ap shots.

Aurora has her anti warjack tech as well, which is even better now

>>47600961

Hardly.

>>47600956

Caine ain't going Mercs anyway. Besides, PP has referred to the twins in 3e having a new relationship with Everblight.

>>47600933
Everblight's biggest flaw has always been hubris and thinking he could handle shit he clearly couldn't. Happened in Morrdh, happened in Ios.

>>47600772
No interest in Legion, Minions or circle at a push

>>47600956

which is why I figured they'd be a likely new sculpt

>>47600902
The problem isn't the guns themselves, 5 ap pow 8 shots is pretty decent against most targets. The problem is rat5

>>47600990
Caine straight up quit the military at the end of blood of kings. No way he'll be a cyngar caster anymore

>>47601047
COC has super easy access to flare, even if attainment servitors went down to AOE 3

>>47601064
theres been rumors of caine3 being a merc caster

>>47601076
Sure, but rat7 means that they still need 7s to hit def 14, you've got to add the Ua to get them to really be hitting consistently, because you need the whole unit to consistently hit to put up worthwhile numbers

I'm returning from MK1 and I'm gonna start with trollblods this time around. Can their battlebox win in any sort of fashion vs. Khador and shit? No right? Also will the new power up focus be able to stand you back up? Still trying to re-learn all this shit.

>>47601175
then you just have to depend on the deviations, or use a cipher and boost both flare shots.

>>47601244
Yeah they can use the focus from power up to shake effects like knock down and stationary.

The Troll starter is in a tough spot with no heavy. Trolls as a faction appear good

What is your best eCaine list anons? fuck hordes i'm going cygnar for mk3. Time to be on the winning team

>>47601349
I think trolls will be alright but like, Why no mauler? :( also the plan is troll starter box+mauler kit+kriel stone guys. What should i get after that, that will work with Ragnor, fennblades or warders?

>>47596710

you trolling or something? Rasheth is the god tier, Hex2 is solid tier at best because his spell arcing means fucking nothing compared to all the goddamn jack spam lately.

Not to mention orin bends him over, good luck against 3 arcane vortexes.

Hex1 is shit. Morg2 is shit. Xerxis2 is in the trash tier

Mordikaar is in low tier, solid tier at best but i fucking doubt it

>>47598405
It would've been fine if they gave them unique weapons like for other character units, such as legends of halaak.

Instead you had to memorize their poses.

>>47600218
Black Spot is still a really great ability to me imo. Since the mammoth's rat went up, black spot makes him effective rat 6 which is actually decent. It was already nice in mk2 for splash damaging a unit and proccing free shots onto KD jacks and beasts. I plan to give ehexy a mammoth, incindiarii, and a min unit of croaks to start with. Croaks let the incindiarii get boosted shots, which still does work.

Hexy2 is one of only four casters I'll use in mk3. Rasheth is definitely the god king of skorne, but I'll also use hexy2, xekaar, and zaal1.

Before I make final judgement though, I am planning to try Makeda3 and Naaresh in mk3. I'm going to give them the benefit of the doubt to see if they prove themselves into my usable casters list. But those 4 up there are legitimately good.

>>47601701
I still don't get the xekaar fascination

>>47601701

only problem with playing Zaal1 is the moment you run into someone like eCaine you lose the game instantly. before his BG or the rest of his list activates hes going to shoot 10+ infantry off the board personally.

>>47601825
Because it's two of the most relevant parts of rasheth's feat every turn. Since it's not an upkeep I can have him cast one and xekaar cast another, and still have 3 fury left. -2 def -2 arm to model/unit is huge for us. Put that on a jack and the catapult can direct hit it now for an effective pow 20 hit. It really cranks up skorne's offense to its pre-nerf levels. And then he has a solid defensive feat as well to blunt the alpha.

>>47601931
Why in the hell am I dropping zall into cygnar?

Zaal is about fighting any list with an arm or box skew, and then screaming the answer to it at the top of his lungs until you die. Zaal's list has always been vulnerable to shooting, and cygnar doesn't give it a lot of chances to trade up with last stand.

>>47600740
Maybe tomorrow.

>>47600933
Well, it's not like pSaeryn and pRhyas are just going to change factions. I've heard of a Cygnar caster that has an epic form in another faction. Can't remember his name, though.

>>47602135

Epic Saeryn & Rhyas didn't change either.

You're thinking of Sturgis; his Cygnar and Cryx versions came out simultaneously because he was expressly designed for the faction switch storyline.

What's Ios's opinion on druid magic? Do they hate it as much as magic from The Gift?

>>47602606

Circle and Ios used to grudgingly tolerate one another. One of Krueger2's theme lists even let him bring Eiryss1. It's fallen apart because the elves need Leyline points outside of Ios.

>>47602606
If it's ears are round, we put it in the ground.

So anyone have plans for a Cass...I mean, Wurmwood 3e list?

I'm sad that Legion is garbage because it's making it impossible to sell this Legion army, even at 40% retail.

I'm very happy I decided I was going to main minions for mk3, and it's going to be glorious

>>47602997

>be me
>sorta start cygnar at the end of mk2 before mk3 is released
>lose steam with it and say fuck it I really wanna do a hordes army and im gunna do legion

>mk3 is spoiled
>mk3 cards are spoiled

>YES THIS IS FINE.jpg

>everyone saying legion is garbage and im just like, seems okay to me :3

>>47601317
I'm talking about the Perfs

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What is some good sacrosanct bait for eKreoss? I'm assuming it wants to go on your tarpit or screening unit.
Errants seem good with him but their is some 'skornergy' between their bond and sacrosanct.
Daughters are only in small units, but are pretty scary with the feat.
Zealots hardly benefit from the feat, but greater destiny ensure their will always be a lot of them to muck things up.
TFG are nothing special with him.
Idrians don't benefit too much from the feat, but they can be decent flankers due to innate pathfinder.

Please help. I need to prove that the old god has the best pauldrons

>>47602694
So ret, circle and Cyrus's must fight each other often now

>>47603685
IIRC Ret has pretty much backed the fuck off during the time skip to go fight the Skorne fags pushing into Ios and that's why they became the main millitary power of Ios

is all the mk3 shit still on back order for months?

>>47603814

I saw 2 of the stores in my area post that they'll meet preorders and still have some to purchase so it depends on your store

>>47603814
Only if you don't know how to shop around. My store still has at least one of everything from their launch kit available.

>>47601428
Sounds good.

It will be hard to tell you what to get next until the meta shakes out but a Fell Caller, finishing off the fen boat, and champs all look good in the new edition

>>47596710
Wow, that's actually pretty wrong.

>Good
Mordikaar
Rasheth
Hexy2
Mak2
Mak3
Zaal1

>Workable
Zaal2
Xekaar
Morghoul 1+2
Xerxis 1+2

>Shit
Mak1
Naaresh

>>47600218
>Almost nothing of importance nerfed
Well he did lose the ability to channel through Minions. Now it would probably make sense to bring Karax with him.

>>47604696
Forgot about Hexy1. He's shit.

>>47604719

seeing as most of the minions he took (gators and croaks) were nerfed, is losing the ability to channel through them really that bad when skorne has plenty of throwaway infantry? (slingers karax and such)

So now that Power up is a thing, i want to give warmachine a try. Hows my Nemo3 list built for ARM cracking

Nemo3 & Finch
-Centurion
-Centurion
-Thunderhead
-Dynamo
Storm Strider
Storm Tower
Storm Tower

ideally the stormtower gets in range of at least two heavies just after nemo feats and lightning bolts something

Does his feat also give additional dice from all the electro leaps? If so thats a pretty insane feat, the main event is a lot of POW 15-17s that can full boost which gets followed up by all the electro leaps which murder most infantry and otherwise can spike on jacks

he seems really cool now. 4 focus to fully power that entire BG! that's like playing with 15 focus in mk2

>>47604865
Well Croaks were probably the best arc nodes for him due to AD.

And while nerfed they are still pretty good and synergize rather well with him.

>>47605126
Wouldn't bloodrunners be better arcnodes?
They are loaded with movement shenanigans.

>>47605216
I have to seriously think on that.

>>47604696
agreed, except rasheth is above the good tier, not S tier or anything but defiantly their best lock, also i have doubts about xekaar being workable

>>47605278
Hexeris2 is the best Skorne warlock now senpai.

>>47605288
since i dont think skorne will ever have any tournament results for the next year i dont think we'll ever have any results to defend our arguments
skornetierfeelsbadman.jpeg

>>47605288
Dude. Let it go. He was niche in MK2 and will be even more so in MK3.

>>47605278
Yeah, I didn't want to further differentiate the tiers.

>>47605288

>game dominated by jacks and beasts
>Hexeris2 best skorne warlock

pick one

>>47605309
He's the perfect tool to stop infantry getting in the way of your Gladiators. Being able to slap a pair of POW14 spells at an enemy beast from out of nowhere because you can channel through anything is also relevant.

>>47605452

>thinking infantry is still relevant

in the world of jack and beast spam, eCaine, better artillery, high explosive pow 10 blasts everywhere who is bringing all this magic infantry?

>>47605452
what can he do vs hvy jack spam
lets say you see 3+ juggernauts or an earthbreaker or two

>>47605510
Hellfire, Hellfire, feat, Hellfire, Hellfire, all with Future Sight, a point of fury to spare for a boost, and all done from a safe distance?

So with all the new news do you guys think Dozer and Smigg will be a thing?
>tfw they're my favourite model.
>everyone keeps telling me they're poo
pls halp

were colossals a mistake

>>47605555
As a rpg dude it was super weird seeing them come out because the Monsternomicon always said they were impossible to re-create and all that business.

>>47605537

great, against a khador jack you've done 1 damage on average per hellfire. good job! you won the game!

>>47605555
No.

>>47605537
you think 4 hellfires per round one of which is boosted is gonna even tickle a earthbreaker? U might get an assasination, but if it doesnt work any and all beasts in range to cast hellfire thru are gettin powerslid into a earthbreaker, thats 5 pow 25 hugs of dwarfy death. This is all assuming u got around the craters and knock downs from the earthbreaker's shooting

if you are using the same strat vs juggs for your feat youve done on average dice 7 dmg to a jugg assuming future sight adds 2 to EACH thats half of one juggernaut dead.

Hex2's feat, imho, is an assassination feat it will not save you from hvy armored jacks but hey maybe the dice gods are on your side

>>47605566
seconded

>>47605585
You're assuming that 1) the game is going to devolve into Jack/Beast spam, and 2) that Skorne's beasts won't be capable of dealing with them. Of course my warlock can't take down your heavies; that's what MY heavies are there for. Meanwhile eHexxy can:

>Banishing Ward
>Black Spot for the -2DEF
>Cloak of Ash for the +2DEF

And Hellfire spam seems fine for assassinations or just generally harassing casters considering he can throw them out of nowhere. Forcing transfers is going to be a huge deal in Mk3 because of how much tougher it will be to manage fury. Throwing Hellfires with an Agonizer around is gonna get you a few free beasts.

>>47605655
>>that Skorne's beasts won't be capable of dealing with them
i think this is the whole point tho, ur paying 2 more points for a gladiator over a juggernaut for less offense less defense plus u have to manage the fury. banishing ward is solid but who cares about the defense buff and nerfs when we are talkin about heavies.
Hex2 with archidons or rzr worms might cheese you out a win tho and cheese wins are my favorite type

>>47605655

it already has devolved into that. just try playing some mk 2.5 games. everyone i play is bringing jack spam

skorne heavies without buffs suck. only the gladiator is any good for its cost and the juggernaut destroys the shit out of it

>>47605713
>only the gladiator is any good for its cost and the juggernaut destroys the shit out of it
Okay but I don't see what this has to do with eHexxy. Should every Skorne player be running a Naaresh list so they can feat and drop heavies?

Is anyone getting new epic versions with Mk. 3?

Not that we've heard, Prime should have the new casters. PP teased 3Caine for later in the year and WM is due a book before Hordes (last Mk II anthology was hordes) so... maybe end of year/early 2017.

>>47605842
EPIC MORDIKAAR WHEN

NIGGER YOU DON'T JUST IMPLY THAT A DUDE IS IMMORTAL AND WILL HAVE A HUGE IMPACT ON SKORNE HISTORY THEN THROW HIM IN THE DEVOURER WURM'S STOMACH

>>47595532
what and how?

>>47605759

the point is eHexy destroys infantry but gets annihilated by lists battlegroup heavy lists because he has ZERO synergy with his own battlegroup.

hes shit.

>>47605655

>You're assuming that 1) the game is going to devolve into Jack/Beast spam

It's barely an assumption at this point. Not only is everyone already dojoing up lists with tons of jacks, the new WJ/WB points literally forces players to take a bigger battlegroup. There's really no evidence of heavy infantry lists making a come back.

> 2) that Skorne's beasts won't be capable of dealing with them

Honestly our beasts need a lot of help from our caster in order to keep up with the extremely cheap and efficient 'jacks that most of the Warmachine factions have access to. It's not as simple as Enraging a Titan and pointing it in a certain direction anymore.

>Banishing Ward

Is okay, kind of situational in that it won't matter in a lot of matchups.

>Black Spot for -2 DEF

Against warrior models, which you're going to see less of and Hexy is already adept at killing them with Ashes.

>And Hellfire spam seems fine for assassinations or just generally harassing casters considering he can throw them out of nowhere

I mean it's fine. It's pretty easily stopped by 2-3 transfers so not the most reliable thing but it's good to have in his pocket.

I said it before. Hexy2 is a lot better at what he does than before. The thing is what he does best is hose high Def infantry, which doesn't really seem to be relevant in the new meta. Yes he can do a clutch assassination, yes he has good defensive tech, and yes his battlegroup can pull some weight, but the thing is that most Skorne warlocks can boast all of these but also provide something that makes them more useful against jacks and beasts.

>>47595891
I've seen people look with amazement at my lists...and then they lose to it.

>>47605963
2-3 tranfers means forcing a beast 2-3 times, potentially forcing threshold checks in the face of an Agonizer. What looked like a safe beast now needs a 6 or less to not frenzy. Not to mention that those Hellfires do a lot more damage to a beast when they go through your warlock to get there.

>>47605963

>> yes his battlegroup can pull some weight
>> honestly out beasts need a lot of help from our casters
stop feeding the "hex2 is top tier" troll plz, nothing hes babbling about is even on point anymore hes just grasping

>>47606113
I'm trying to look on the bright side considering the alternative is to just pout and talk about how bad Skorne is.

>>47605813
you know what i REALLY would like to see..

eTermie become a solo or even a journeyman warcaster.. as in not a warcaster anymore but still has that "creeping death" vibe without the hard counter thing he has goin on right now

>>47606154
fair enuff didnt mean to insult you bro.. Heres to PP hopefully seeing the problem and making desert hydra an armor killing machine (since as far as im aware they havent spoiled that yet), or at least give them serious arm 20 crushing power in the next supplement (cheers)

>>47606214

hydra is the exact same except gained a few boxes. still on sp6 sprays too

>>47606293
welp theres always the second thing then

At least at the start the new edition will devolve in a game of skew and Heavy spam.

With time I think we will come to a more balanced meta.

The fact is that yeah there are a lot of Infantry hate, but there are infantry that are just too good that help a lot against infantry and heavy, Dawnguard Sentinels are an example.

Then there is to consider that a lot of anti infantry is just POW 10 in a world where a lot of Faction lost acces to A&H so I think that after a year or so we will start to see the true potential of MKIII.

>>47606154
>>47606214
Iisn't pain and despair the faction identity of Skorne?
If Skorne players were happy about the changes I would have been surprised.

I ran into a interesting problem.
Making lists for new players that use simple but powerful combos.
So they do not have to think too much what their army does.

>>47606591
What is Cryx, then? Lamenting how things were back in the day? Staring in cold rage, waiting for the Slayer's arms to fall off?

stormguard buffs where

>>47605865
Well they said he was dead for good. On the other hand I doubt that would really stop him.

>>47606047
>2-3 tranfers means forcing a beast 2-3 times
That is not how transfers work.

>>47606983
Here's half a point discount. Now shut up and buy the 2 player box.

>>47607048
He'll come back as a void spirit guaranteed

>>47605813
Epic Strakhov or Karchev between the two in the lore they're the most due for it. What with karchev being kidnapped and telling cryx to fuck off their limp dicked torture techniques.

>>47607162
Apotheosis casters really are due their epic incarnations. It's weird how they just skipped over them

>>47607174
For a long time they were adamant about no epics for them. Now, in mk3 that may not be the case.

>>47607186
God I hope so, new-strakhov might be fine and I'm defnitely stoked about new-karchev but plot wise they've both had a pretty major series of events happen to them that might lead to some new developments. That or Irusk3 though thats just because of my love of K. Bison.

>>47606623
cryx over all isnt completely fucked and honestly they got 1 buff for every 2 nerfs, sure gaspy2 and denny are fucked but we got venny and scaverous. Cryx will be very different in mk3 but i think youll see them in tournaments, i do not think youll see skorne or legion at all

>>47607104
dont do this to me

>>47607314
Shit, you're right. It's 1.5 points.

>>47607397
DONT PLAY ME LIKE THIS PP

how do people feel about more lesser warlocks and warcasters... it seems to me at this point putting out more main locks and casters is just gonna push others out of competitive play or just be wasted models. Also the lessers might be good for creating more well rounded armies. I know no one was blown away by the first wave of them but id like to see more lessers

>>47607218
>Some bullshit happens and Irusk gets psycho powers, goes mad and puts himself as the new dictator of Khador

God yes

>>47607458
The lessers are looking to be very powerful in Hordes, I see a lot of people taking Snapjaw in their lists to abuse Starcrossed.

>>47607496
snapjaw seemed to always be around in the meta tho i was talking more about the faction lesser specifics the aiakos and allison group

>>47605566
>said they were impossible to re-create and all that business.
Well, weren't they talking about the original colossi? The new ones are about half that size and should be easier to manufacture.

What's so bad about the Cryx version of Sturgis anyway? What's the dealbreaker compared to say Venny or Scaverous?

>>47607769
>Rubbish Feat
>Confused design
>Mediocre Spell list and Focus 6

>>47603072
legions fine people are just butthurt that they actually have to care about fury now

>>47603250
They should be going after heavies mostly, or Debuffed lights. Still you're right, it's not great

so despite the fact that FURY was only a little better than FOCUS in mk2, and beasts were a lot better than jacks what exactly is served by now making jacks clearly much better than beasts? notion before was that war casters were generally stronger than warlocks bc beasts > jacks, but caters being better AND jacks being better...what the fuck were they thinking

>>47607907
>Oh shit, got to win this turn
>I have 7 focus
>That jack needs 2
>He needs 1
>I need to cast a 3 and a 2 focus spell
>FUCK!!!

>Okay, I need to win this turn
>I can force that heavy to 4
>I can force that light to 3
>I can force my other heavy to 4
>I can cast all my spells
>May as well boost my to hit roll as it won't matter this turn any way

6-10 focus + 1 for each jack
6-7 fury + 3/4 per beast

This is the balance we have. Hordes can out alpha strike Warmachine because it CAN cheat extra fury when it absolutely has to make something happen. Warmachine simply cannot do that, it has a higher risk/reward system than Hordes does because if it ever rolls really well or really poorly it's going to be using focus ineffectively, but Hordes never does that. In a sense Hordes gets a "free re roll" on anything that matters, which means it's much more reliable, which is a powerful tool to have.

>>47607769
i feel like this is a troll but...

venny is a good jack caster with tons of buffs for his battlegroup and motherfucking lamentation to fuck over enemy casters

scarverous is a magic buffing caster in a faction with tons of magic who has multiple amazing ways to get the souls to have 10 or more focus on his turn

sturgis has just a pile of spells and abilities that are fine but i have no idea how they would work together. He has less focus, no field marshal no way other than parasite to crack armor. Hes decent against light infantry if he charges into melee and puts himself at risk? I guess he might be an assassination caster but his feat is contingent upon killing light and medium infantry then empowering your battlegroup to kill the enemy caster. Thats a lot of 'ifs' to actually have work

>>47607953
while thats true for mk2 is it for mk3? considering the whole point is free focus candy for jacks to relieve the focus burden, let casters cast more, etc? we also have shit like the nomad being 11/juggy being 12 points where most hordes heavies with comparable pow and comparable # of initials are upper teens in points

>>47608005
One focus alone is not going to make jacks do miracles.
The whole rule was made so they do not forced to sneak more free focus rules for jacks since MK1.

>>47608054
i guess there is something to a flat cap of 3 vs most heavy beasts going to 4-5, and part of the point cost increase being the opportunity cost of forcing 2-3 times more than a jack can spend

still feels like a lot of the changes hammered hordes while similar issues/op shit in WM weren't touched

>>47608084
>>still feels like a lot of the changes hammered hordes while similar issues/op shit in WM weren't touched

The buffs hordes did get are really weird. Argus' animus is fucking nuts and madrak2 might be so insane that people have to build lists just to counter it. Trolls generally look like they are all around better even with the tough nerf so do circle.

>>47608005
I was using MKIII focus up there retard. You're still limited to your 10 a turn or so which Hordes was already getting, but Hordes still has the alpha strike Warmachine cnanot have and still has that safety blanket which warmachine doesn't have. Which is without touching free spells.

>>47608005
>>47608084

"WHAT, Warjacks can now do SLIGHTLY MORE DAMAGE? JACKS OP!!!!!!!!"

1 Focus is a free charge. Doing raw maths, Even "Uber" jacks that have Pow 19 axes, barely manage to kill a average (12/18, 30 HP) heavy with 3 focus. And barely is not good enough when you need to 1 shot stuff.

And I would say most importantly: Beats don't worry about HP. Contrary to popular belief, most beasts have defensive statlines comparable to jacks anyway, (and the ones that don't never get used). Unless a Warjack can do 30 HP worth of damage in 1 turn, the warbeast can attack back with few worries.

Whilst warjacks have to lug around mechanics that can't fix from a distance and thus start having maneuverability issues almost instantly.

And most warjacks can't do 30 damage even with 3 focus, even with a free charge.

Here is what is going to happen:

A bunch of jack spam lists. They get crushed by the stuff they where crushed before (WepMas infantry, Beasts), and we go back too minimum possible jacks and infantry doing the heavy lifting.

You are correct, there is no cheap beat stick for hordes. So compare beasts and jacks at a similar price range. They are about the same in utility and power anyway.

>>47605813
I'm always down for my bae, Asphyxious, to get his 4th epic. Though, I could be persuaded with a novel about him and Denny doing whatever

>>47607953
>>47608195
from these posts its clear you dont know what alpha strike actually means

>>47608286
Or clearly you have never played a game where you have literally 1 turn to win or you're going to lose. It's literally "Fuck them up now or they will out attrition you or will win on scenario". Man if only we had casters like EKrueger and Kaelyssa's theme list which made it so it was literally this issue at high level play.

>>47608324
ive def been in that scenario but i wouldnt call that the alpha tho and have never heard that called the alpha, its more of a hail mary

>>47607953

Nemo3 disagrees with you. Every jack that wants 3 focus gets it for 1 of Nemo's focus only

>>47608324
>>47608324
I've always heard "alpha strike" used to mean "the first to hit hard" hence why Legion/Circle were often said to be alpha strike factions in mk2 since they were fast and could do a lot of damage and usually not have anything really threatening their alpha beasts on the next turn. or how Vayl1 was said to "double alpha" since she could hit, erase shit, back up out of threat range, and hit again

>>47608473
finch is so dumb lol

>>47608473
Don't you mean 2?
Finch gives everyone +1, not +2

I'm still going to use EHexy. Not every list is going to be jackspam. A few will be jackspam, but that's what 2-list pairings are for.

Most lists are going to have an infantry component. And I plan to use ehexy with a mammoth, to proc black spot extra attacks to fling at opposing heavies. From my experience in khador, rat 4 is enough to tag heavies when you're shooting them in volume.

Something like this:

Hexy +27
Mammoth 38
Gladiator 14
Sentry 15
Agonizer 7

Nihilators 15

PGBH 7

Tyrant Commander 6


idk, still a work in progress. I think the beasts are important for the list, the nihilators and tycom are optional. Could go with karax maybe, ashen veil and agonizer on them could make for a tough little jamming unit and save 4 points, leaving me with 10 to do something with if I don't use the tycom.

>>47608324
>>47608455
Yeah, you're not really going to get the alpha on eKruegar, like harby the best you can do us just push up as aggressivly as is prudent.

When I think of 'alpha' i usually think of lylith2, Vayl2 tier, Vayl1 or maybe the Kayas. Someone who can strike hard and protect their beasts

>>47608488
Which is what we're comparing here. 2 lists using optimal focus/fury to hit first as hard as they can. Other wise we're going to be comparing half dead stuff to half dead stuff and Hordes wins that every damn time.

>>47608518
1 free focus from power up
1 focus allocated from nemo's stack
1 free focus added onto nemo's allocation from finch

>>47608590
oh yeah in mk3 of course
shit im dumb

>>47608590
Yup. But not every faction is Cygnar, and not every caster is Nemo 3.

And Nemo still is a pretty spelly warcaster who still has a limited amount of focus. Finch is still cool though.

>>47608521
>I'm still going to use EHexy. Not every list is going to be jackspam.
Perfectly valid. Have you considered Reivers+UA? They're going to be fucking beasts with him.