What's your opinion?
>>47594743
Pretty shit, they could have used an Arabian theme considering their history with automaton. As for Japanese Gothic horror, considering how they failed at japanese mythos they're likely to fuck that up too.
>>47594743
Return to Kamigawa confirmed!
>>47594743
This guy is an idiot and doesn't know that the British controlled India at this point
>>47594903
Didn't British control virtually half the world? That's hardly an argument.
>Japanese gothic horror
Yeah, hi.
>>47594903
But Kaladesh is clearly not British-occupied India. It's just fantasy India with thopters and shit.
I think Japan would be more like body horror than gothic horror. Or just straight up freakish mythological horror.
>>47594743
Steampunk is such a nongenre you can apply it to any culture. Just slap some gears onto it.
India steampunk? Sure. Japan steampunk? Hell yeah. Cavemen steampunk? You got it.
>>47595390
Japan has ghosts who look like mutilated, emaciated ghosts and literally eat shit.
It also has witches summoning giant Dark Souls-style skeleton monsters to fight samurai.
The Japanese have always been a people of extremes. With the right GM, this can lead to some great horror.
>>47594743
It does make sense, Hindu mythology is prettymetal.
>>47594941
India was a huge fucking deal though and probably the most important colony.
>>47595570
>just slap some gears on it
Remove yourself
>>47595570
At that point steampunk is just an aesthetic.
>>47595964
Rub some bacon on it.
>>47596002
Well no shit, mate.
>>47595964
He's right you know. It's by far the laziest aesthetic.
>>47594743
MaRo really seems to do all he can to make the game as vanilla and shit as possible.
>>47596002
It always was.
>>47596293
>>47596359
Well I guess it's time to drop out of standard forever and only buy shit for commander/legacy.
I could take mythic rarity.
I could take mythic rares becoming 4x staples despite they claiming they wouldn't go that way
I could take commons becoming filler and skill-testers while every good effect went to rare
I could even take the 2 set shit and the lower ammount of cards sporting mechanics I liked
But all of that AND having 20% of every block's design space, flavor and art taken over by at least one of the worst 5 characters they have?
Fuck you MaRo, fuck you WotC, fuck you Hasbro.
>>47596293
You can never trust a man that hates Storm.
>>47595964
gears, brass, pipes, top hats and corsets.
That's all it is.
>>47595819
Well, yeah, but only because America did the tea thing.
>>47596658
It's a sound marketing decision.
Kids will eat it.
Competitive players don't give fuck about flavor either way, so nothing of the value lost for them.
And the old nerds are in so deep the sunken cost alone will keep them from quitting.
Also back in the day Urza was one of the worst oldwalkers and I don't recall anybody complain about sets designed around him. Oh wait, maybe that's because back then I didn't visit 4chan.
>>47596359
>more "oh" elf
>more "muh fire solves everything" aka not!jaya
>more "i'm indestructible just when the plot wants to"
>more FUCKING JACE
Just kill me already.
>>47596788
Oh.
>>47597276
>>47596788
>>47594743
>Gothic Horror in a japan-based culture
They've got experience with Gothic horror. I think they can do it justice.
>>47597358
If you're drawing art for a company that's this fucking important, why the fuck are you tracing?
>>47597358
I've always thought this was cool as fuck, but it rustles peoples jimmies for some reason
>>47594809
Besides Steampunk settings often veer into orient.
Also there is a book by a bit less known French author Jules Verne called Tribulations of Chinaman in China and bunch of others stuff involving Asian and Orient settings without too many actual western characters.
It doesn't take much to twist something fromnactual 19th century into steampunk setting. Knowing the fanbase it would probably be impossible to get around the casual rascism of orientalism or heaven forbid use it as a flavor.
>>47597498
Which part? The existence of white (albino) niggers? Rap music? Tracing?
>>47597639
Is albino nigger a reference to mtg lore or her in real life? I don't mind either way
I really like rap music.
The tracing thing is a bit of a stretch. The artist incorporated a face into his art. No drama with that. I'm sure you could find other examples. Interesting face is interesting.
>>47597694
>>47597730
It's not a troll just because you disagree with it. I'm not even trying to change peoples opinion. I just like the image and art direction.
>>47597407
I thought tracing was pretty common among artists?
>>47594970
Is that Gérard Depardieu on the right ?
>>47597841
Jean Reno, if that's who you mean.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=K8L34rvLOxY
>>47596359
The only one of the five who isn't utter cancer is Liliana and that's because she's too much of an egocentric bitch to insert herself in whatever the plane's bullshit is, she just comes fucks things up, has a laugh and leaves.
>>47597841
Gérard Depardieu is more rotund. Not Steven Seagal -tier rotund, but still.
>>47595612
>Japan has ghosts who look like mutilated, emaciated ghosts
No, not ghosts that look like ghosts!
>>47597393
Bloodborne is more cosmic than gothic.
So is Innistrad right now, which sucks.
ISD was awesome because it had a lot of people living in absolute panic of things they had never experienced first hand, they could see the consequences of geists, ghouls, vampires and werewolves all around, and in DKA the darkness got a bit too close. But it was still at bay enough for paranoia to be the main feeling rather than the outright survival instinct kill everthing angry mobs everywhere inquisition nao shit of ISD.
>>47597864
Liliana is not part of Jacetice League (not yet anyway). It is up to debate whether she becomes Black Ranger or Sorin does. The strong argument for her is that she was always consistently monoblack, he wasn't.
>>47594743
Steampunk is defined as "the world but with steam instead of other fueled sources." What the poster is bitching about is how they didn't do Victorian Steampunk. That they think Victorian Steampunk is the be all end all of steampunk makes about as much sense as saying revolvers are only used in Wild West settings.
>>47597694
The bigger issue for me is that the artist is being lazy and just tracing a picture instead of actually drawing shit (and probably got paid the same as someone who had to go through the process of creating art from scratch).
>>47598087
IIRC this is actual technique practed by a number of artists. Typically for concept art, but obviously not always just that. I forget the name (something bashing?) but you basically google a bunch of shit, then draw over it until you have something original.
>>47598248
As a concept, it's fine. Taking from so many things that it becomes original is fine too. That means you're going through a thought process of what works or doesn't work. Effort is applied. Tracing is just blatant theft of pictures.
>>47598248
photobashing is disjointed as fuck, but digital tools mean people rarely care anymore with proper studies and shit
>>47597905
>Bloodborne is more cosmic than gothic.
Only post Rom. For most of the game it's legit gothic beast hunting. The ayys don't even show up until forest, halfway through, and you don't know they're ayys until much later.
>>47598883
Well Rom if the 4/5th bosss of 22 and I started suspecting cthulhushit ass soon as the shadows of yharnam sprouted face tentacles.
>>47597905
Cosmic horror is a brand of Gothic horror. Lovecraft and Poe are birds of a feather.
>>47596708
American's were just a bunch of tobacconiggers at the time.
>>47596698
Steampunk used to be a far more tightly defined genre, but these days it's become more of an aesthetic than anything else. It would make more sense these days to differentiate between "traditional/classic steampunk" and "the steampunk aesthetic" rather than continuing to try to use the term "steampunk" to apply to both.
>>47597358
Yolandi visser is fucking gross and that makes me hate Nissa even more
>>47596698
>>47595570
>>47596347
Genres can be defined by ascetics, or time periods, or character tropes, or whatever, and there are no rules for how broad or narrow a genre can be.
If it has awesome machines that never existed but could have and it also has victorian-tier class disparity (India DEFINITELY counts) then you can call it steampunk. That's the genre. Or if it just looks steampunkey you can call it steampunk as an ascetic and that's fine too.
In either case if you are pedantic or exclusive in defining genres then you are being nonsensical. All any genre REALLY is is a collection of tropes, we invent definitions after the fact to try to tie the tropes together but it's just a pastime.
>nongenre
Shut up you twat,
>>47600117
Ascetic=living with the bare minimum, usually for religious reasons, think Tibetan monk
Aesthetic=a specific style or more generally art appreciation
>>47600244
Oh, I understand the mistake but that doesn't stop me from making it, thanks for catching me.
At least I've never ever mixed up rogue and rouge.
>>47594743
>WAAAAH MY FICTIONAL THING CAN ONLY BE ONE THING FOREVER AND IF YOU CHANGE IT IT'S BAD WAAAAAH!
Shut up. The term Steampunk doesn't even describe the actual genre nowadays since it's drifted so far from its roots. It's this kind of attitude that's killing fantasy too.
>>47594743
Steampunk is fine for that.
Just don't mistake it for Victorian Science-Fiction.
>>47600436
You know? I think his actual concern is that he wants a steampunk setting that is THE STEAMPUNK SETTING, 100% steampunk with all the tropes and trimmings, but given the same love and creativity as all the other (main block) MTG settings.
Instead they're more prone to use steampunk as a spice and adding it to many of their settings, so that some worlds are more steampunkey and some are less. I think Kaladesh sounds like a good meat-and-potatoes steampunk setting, but it IS a spin on steampunk, it at least makes token efforts at feeling new and different. Which I love as a fan of worldbuilding but if I were just a big fan of classic steampunk I would probably hate it.
That's not quite right, what am I trying to say. . .
Mirrodin is a "robot world" setting. There are a lot of campy ways they could have done this, and instead they poured a lot of imagination into it and made something that's alien and cool and uniquely MTG.
Now think of Zendikar as a D&D/adventureworld setting. It could have been afraid of being campy and tried hard to feel fresh, instead they poured a lot of imagination into the idea of Adventurers Getting Into Trouble and turned it up to 11 and made something that's been done before but is done so awesomely that you don't care.
Some people want Mirrodin treatment of Steampunk, this guy wants Zendikar treatment of steampunk. Does that make any sense or am I babbling?
>>47596698
The only good thing steam punk brings is corsets.and fuck Gothic horror too
>>47594743
>"""""real""""" steampunk
Uh huh.
>>47602969
Agreed, I'd like a setting where Lady Mechanica or Howl's Moving Castle don't seem out of place. Instead we get designated shitting streed with airships.
Kinda like how SOI is Bloodborne with an Innistrad paintover and a hysteric chalky bitch ruining everything, instead of actual Innistrad.
>>47602993
Well said, I'll remember that one.
I hate it when people say "real X" and all they mean is "the kind of X that I like". It's inane and inarticulate.
>>47603258
It's "all you hear", not "all they mean".
Any statement can be boiled down to "you just like/dislike X".
Usually there's a difference between what a statement basically boils down to, and what it actually means.
>>47594743
Steampunk was a mistake
>>47597905
SOI went full-on Domains of Dread, though, with Avacyn becoming a Darklord. The Eldrazi are only tangentially related through Nahiri.
Paranoia now exists EVEN MORE exactly because of SOI. If you can't even trust an archangel, how the fuck can you deal with what's happening?
>>47604327
I'd argue it's not paranoia when the danger is real and in your face ready to burn your shit.
>>47603705
I said what I meant to say. I hate it when people say "real X" and all they mean is "the kind of X that I like". It is inane and inarticulate when people do that.
Sometimes the word "real" has some potential literal meaning that isn't bullshit in this context, and those aren't the times I'm talking about. "Real sugar" means it isn't a 0-calory sweetener and depending on the context it usually means cane sugar. "Real money" doesn't mean a specific sum but it means "lots of money".
"Real steampunk" only makes sense as a semantic argument- the "realness" is semantic correctness. Except that he didn't actually MAKE a semantic argument, they never do, they use the "real" qualifier in PLACE of making a semantic argument, and in doing so they tell the reader nothing.
From the context, I infer that his "real steampunk" includes Victorian western steampunk with those particular trappings, and more broadly I think he means steampunk without a spin on it, steampunk turned up to 11, etc. But only from context. Without context, if someone spits some dumb shit like "real steampunk", it could mean anything. It could mean steampunk that emphasizes retrofuturism, it could mean steampunk that emphasizes commentaries on wealth, it could mean dark steampunk or heroic steampunk, it could mean that the "steampunk" comes from the themes and not the aesthetic, it could be talking specifically about the aesthetic but with strong opinions about which aesthetics are REALLY steampunk, it could mean steampunk that isn't about gears, it could mean steampunk that has sufficient gears, it could mean anything. All he has told me with that word alone is that there is some steampunk he regards higher than others, and the only reason I know THAT is because I've seen so many people misuse the word in the same way.
>>47596698
nix the tophats and youve got steampunk.
>>47594743
I take it that they never heard of Sakura Wars.
Take out the demons and magic and you have a perfect steampunk setting.
Hell, the movie even has the all-powerful evil omni-corp trying to run everything.
>>47604382
>I said what I meant to say.
Then you meant to lie. You hate it when people say "real X" because all you hear is "the kind of X I like". The fact that your willingness to understand their point of view ends there doesn't mean their actual claims end there.
>>47604529
Not every statement can be boiled down to "you like/dislike X". That was bologna. But, every judgment of a third party's statements CAN be boiled down to "You didn't understand them!", and that's all you're doing.
This is a semantic argument, about the word "real" and its proper use. I might have implied it already, but I enjoy semantic arguments when someone has an actual argument, and have no patience for when people challenge my semantics and have no argument. You didn't have an argument the first time, I gave a lengthy explanation of my claims so you would have better grounds for one, and now you still have no argument. So, congratulations, you win, goodnight.
>>47595570
>>47595964
>>47596698
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=TFCuE5rHbPA
>>47600052
>Yolandi visser is fucking gross
That's her whole point. It's not about being pretty but going to the extreme and push boundaries. That's what makes her hot to me.
When she does "normal" she looks pretty decent.
>>47602982
>and fuck gothic horror too
REEEEEEEEEEEE
>>47600052
The creature side of flip Nissa is my waifu.
>>47604688
Took you people long enough. This needs to be posted as soon as steampunk discussion comes up.
>>47594743
He's talking progressive shit. Indian steampunk and Japanese horror (especially) are both cool, but they're not the same as classical steampunk or gothic horror.
If they were simply better, there would be no Innistrad. "Putting our spin" on horror didn't totally change it.
Japanese horror isn't the same, like how The Ring and The Grudge aren't the same setting as Dracula and Frankenstein's Monster.
That said, I don't like steampunk so I'm happy it's skipped. I'd rather see a Japanese horror setting (Return to Kamigawa?) and a non-steampunk Victorian plane as well as Innistrad than a true steampunk world.
>>47594970
fucking excellent series, just replayed em all and finished 4
>>47602982
Gothic horror corsets > steampunk corsets
>>47597802
Yeah, among Andrew Dobson tier hacks
>>47595667
oh abaddon-chan
>>47602982
I bet you're one of those faggots that actually likes eldrazi
>>47600288
>At least I've never ever mixed up rogue and rouge.
>He can't even write "rouge and rogue" correctly
>>47600117
People don't really go with the class disparity thing though. Everyone's a scientist or noble adventurer or whatever. Nobody talks about the child laborers collecting the coal for all the steam powered machinery. There's no punk in steampunk when everyone is The Man
>>47594743
>Part of inventing worlds is putting our spin on them.
He's not wrong.
>>47610560
>not wrong
1. If worlds are plagiarised, then "spun," they're not "invented," and that invites precisely OP's sort of question.
2. If your plagiarism is subtle, but your "spin" still sucks, it invites precisely OP's sort of question.
3. It's wrong to publish solicited questions without answering them.
>>47604645
>Not every statement can be boiled down to "you like/dislike X". That was bologna.
It can if you're dishonest and willfully ignorant enough, and you clearly are.
>But, every judgment of a third party's statements CAN be boiled down to "You didn't understand them!", and that's all you're doing.
Because it's true in this case. In fact, your explicit argument is consciously refusing to understand others, or even consider the possibility that there's something to understand.
>This is a semantic argument, about the word "real" and its proper use.
It's not a semantic argument. It's an argument about whether anyone who disagrees with you could possibly have an argument. You choose to dismiss anyone who has an actual definition of "steampunk" as "they just don't LIKE X and can NEVER EVER EVER have anything more to say", then proceed to promptly ignore them and feel self-assured for doing so.
If you have an actual argument like you claim to, rather than a cluster of rhetorical knots and self-serving assumptions, then it helps to not start your posts with lies. Especially when they've already been called out.
