Good morning and welcome to Ask A Judge! It's a drizzly, dreary, grey kinda Wednesday, so I'll be answering rules questions while I'm cooped up in the cold and the wet.
If I play a creature from my hand using Quicksilver Amulet is that considered Casting?
Are planeswalker abilities considered activated abilities?
>>47556255
nope, sorry buddy
>>47556163
Say I draw for my turn and then notice that I forgot my Aberrant Researcher's upkeep trigger. What would happen at different RELs?
>>47556255
Nope. It's considered putting it onto the battlefield. To cast it you have to put it on the stack and pay for it somehow.
>>47556276
Yes.
>>47556356
At Regular, 99% of the time we just put the trigger on the stack right when it's noticed in this scenario.
At Competitive and Professional, we ask your opponent if they would like you to get the trigger. If they say yes, we put the trigger on the stack. If they say no, no trigger for you.
>>47556367
If I have Rhystic Study out, do I need to remind my opponent everytime the trigger goes on the stack or should I just draw as soon as he casts without paying the additional cost?
If I make a planewalker Indestructible do they still lose loyalty counters when attacked and if so do they die when the loyalty counter hits 0?
>>47556516
Indestructible doesn't prevent damage, so yeah they lose counters when attacked.
Not 100% sure about the latter but I'd also say yes.
>>47556477
Read the gatherer page rulings.
http://gatherer.wizards.com/Pages/Card/Details.aspx?multiverseid=338457
Your opponent chooses whether to pay as Study's ability resolves. For it to resolve, you must announce the trigger and put it on the stack after they cast their spell. So yes, you'll have to remind them of Study's trigger.
>>47556477
You need to remind them. It's your trigger, so you're responsible for demonstrating awareness of it, but it requires a choice made by them, so you can't just assume the default. You need to verbally announce the trigger every time.
Now, in a casual game, if your friends want to just shortcut it to 'I will tell you when I'm paying, and if I don't say I'm paying, assume I am not', but that won't fly in a tournament.
>>47556516
Yes and yes.
I want to transmute artifact my grim monolith. If my opponent chooses to not respond to it will I have an opportunity to tap it for mana before I sacrifice it? The idea being I want to use the mana for the transmute artifact X cost but only when I know the spell won't be countered.
>>47556777
Yes, transmute artifact does not requiring sacrificing as an additional cost, it's part of the spell resolution
>>47556855
So I can tap for mana during spell resolution? Or is there some extra priority pass there?
>>47556777
You do get a chance to generate mana in the middle of resolving that spell, ONLY because it asks you to make a payment.
Problem is, you carry out the instructions in the order written, and you only get that chance to make mana immediately before you're asked to pay mana during the spell's instructions. As such, your Monolith will have been sacced by then and you can't tap it.
>>47556855
Not quite.
>>47556855
This is incorrect. If the opponent passes priority, then the Transmute Artifact resolves. You cannot arbitrarily activate mana abilities while a spell is resolving.
If I have viscera seer, anafenza kin tree, and kitchen fink out and I announce I sac kitchen finks for viscera seer do the triggers get put on the stack before my opponent gets priority?
That is sac > scry > persist> gain life > Bolster
Extra: Then my opponent doom blades anafenza, does her trigger fizzle or has it been placed on the stack?
>>47556909
http://mtgsalvation.gamepedia.com/Timing_and_Priority
You might need a refresher m80
>>47556956
You sac Finks, Scry 1 goes on the stack and Persist immediately goes on the stack before your opponent gets priority. When Persist goes on the stack, you may pass priority to your opponent in order for Persist to resolve.
If your opponent says OK to Persist, then Bolster 1 AND Gain 2 go on the stack. Your opponent can respond to either assuming you pass priority. You stack them in any order. Once these two triggers resolve, Scry 1 attempts to resolve and you must pass priority to your opponent for it to happen.
The most optimal moment to Doom Blade Anafenza is to respond to Persist. This will make this stack:
Sac (Scry 1 bottom of the stack), Persist (above Scry 1 on the stack), Doom Blade (above Persist on the stack), Doom Blade resolves, Persist resolves, ETB (above Scr 1 on the stack), Gain 2 resolves, Scry 1 resolves.
>>47556909
>You cannot arbitrarily activate mana abilities while a spell is resolving
Normally, you're right. But rule 608.2f gives you explicit permission to do so if a spell requires a payment of mana during its resolution.
>>47556956
You'll sacrifice it and put the Seer's ability on the stack, with the Persist trigger above that. Your opponent will get priority with the stack exactly like that. You don't "look ahead" at what'll happen and pre-load the triggers. If your opponent trashes Anafenza in response to that activation and the Persist trigger, your combo goes wombo.
>>47557059
>>47557108
You're missing my point. You cannot ARBITRARILY activate mana abilities while a spell is resolving. Take Transmute Artifact as an example. You can activate a mana ability when it asks for a mana payment, but not at any other time while the spell is resolving.
>>47557108
>>47557066
Thanks guys, that's what I had gathered from rule searching when I was at the table. My opponent got really pissed though because he said "the rules are way too convoluted" afterwards and quit the next turn. It's hard to wrap my head around priority sometimes
Hey Judge Anon, nice to see you back.
Do you have any secret BUG techs in edh? I have another friend who is a judge and he loves Ghoultree and sporefrog.
>>47556909
>>47556906
Thanks, this is what I was thinking was the case but didn't know if there was some kind of loophole I was missing.
>>47557162
...which is what I said. You can activate mana in the middle of the spell resolving, but only at the immediate moment before being asked to pay. Which is why I told him that he can't tap his artifact for mana AND sacrifice it to the spell as part of resolution.
>>47557187
>anon
You wound me!
>Tech
Dude, I am the last person you want to ask for advice. I'm horrible at magic.
>>47557262
I'm sorry, you're one of the few posters who actually deserves a trip, I'll remember it next time, I promise!
>Dude, I am the last person you want to ask for advice. I'm horrible at magic.
Really? I was just wondering what kind of cards you enjoy in general. My other judge friend likes bushwacker zoo and janky blue control. He seems to enjoy winning very quickly in a theoretical fashion, or locking down people's fancy stuff and mana ramping.
>>47557262
That is also what I said, though with fewer details initially. You and the other anon I linked seemed to be disagreeing with me on point that I wasn't trying to make.
>>47557315
Oh, see, "what do you like" is different from "What techs do you have", because I'm a bad player and a worse deckbuilder.
I tend to play defensive/reactionary decks. I like interacting with my opponent, and really dislike non-interactive games (no matter which side of the non-interactivity I'm on)
>>47557343
The way you phrased your answer was as if his only chance to activate mana abilities was before the spell resolved, and by passing priority he lost out on any chance to generate mana for his spell. Your answer was technically correct, but poorly worded and misleading.
Does equipping a creature with an artifact go on the stack?
>>47557394
Yes. Equip is an activated ability that uses the stack and can be responded to.
>>47557394
Yes. You can kill the creature in response to the equipment's target.
>>47557354
Yeah, I should have given a better explanation of the why and how. I was trying to point out that there was no extra priority moment between the opponent passing priority and the spell resolving, and that there was still a restriction to when mana abilities could be activated while resolving Transmute Artifact. It seems that usually I know what I'm talking about, but I'm not very good at explaining what I'm talking about.
Since Tomorrow, Azami's Familiar replaces my card draw, does Sphinx's Tutelage activate?
>>47557543
It does if you pay 5U, because that's the only part of it that's an activated ability!
But it doesn't TRIGGER, no. Since you didn't draw a card, the trigger won't fire.
>>47556662
>>47556744
damn it.
any advise on what I can do not to forget the trigger?
there's a lot of conversation and politics going on during our games so it happens pretty fast that someone casts a spell while I'm conversing and I forget the trigger a lot.
>>47557817
For Study, it's just gonna have to be practice. You'll just have to pay attention to people casting things and ask every time "Paying for Study?"
If I have a spell with overload imprinted on Isochron Scepter, can I still choose to pay the overload cost when I cast the copy?
Also, I'm confused about walkers and the legend rule. If i have, for instance, Liliana Vess in play and then play Liliana of the Veil, do I have the sac one? Cards have different names so I'm confuse.
>>47557964
Don't know the scepter one, but I don't think so.
As for the planeswalker ruling yes, you'd have to sac one. The rules care about the subtype. In this case it's the "Liliana" subtype.
>>47557964
nitpick: planeswalker rules and legend rule don't make you sacrifice anything. you choose one to keep, and the others go to your graveyard, but it isn't sacrificing.
My question is, for this card does everyone lose/gain one life at the beginning of all my upkeep's or only when a player has 13 life do they lose the game then I get to chose for everyone to gain or lose one life?
Stupid question but everyone at my FNM gets confused with the rulings of this card.
How likely is it that I'd run into trouble at a tournament if I run a deck with four or five foils? Three of them are copies of the same card.
>>47557964
Overload is an alternative cost. Scepter's casting "without paying the mana cost" is an alternative cost. you can only do one. If you cast with Isochron, you can't overload.
>>47558120
Depends on how warped they are. Try double sleeving the deck maybe (perfect fits with regular sleeves) to keep them from bending.
>>47558115
It reads in order. If nobody is at 13, it moves onto the next part of the text. "Then" is a sequence, not indicative of a necessary condition.
>>47558014
>Don't know the scepter one, but I don't think so.
I know it worked back in the day with Kicker (Scepter chant). Specter says you make a copy and may cast that copy without paying it's mana cost. An overload card says you may choose to cast it for it's overload cost, so I'm inclined to say yes.
Also, how do cards that effect cards in exile interact with the command zone? Can I, for instance, use a riftwatcher to put a commander from the command zone into the yard? Or can I use Living Wish to take my commander from the command zone and put it in my hand?
>>47558146
Alright, thanks. All of them are cheap enough that I could run to a vendor and buy replacements I'd necessary, but I'd rather not if I can help it.
>>47558115
Exactly what it says on the card happens in order exactly what order it says on the card.
The card triggers on your upkeep, you pick one of the two options. The trigger checks if anyone has 13 life, and if they do they lose. After it checks the second part happens, be it gaining or losing 1 life.
>>47558181
>>47558151
Alright thanks. I thought the 13 life was a condition that had to be meet to lose/gain the life.
>>47558164
kicker is fine since it is an additional cost. Alternate costs work different from additional costs.
Things that interact with exile don't work with the command zone. Command Zone is a different zone from the exile zone.
>>47558164
>riftwatcher
I do not know this card.
>Living wish
No. At least I believe not. Since the command zone is within the game.
Interestingly enough, you also can't find Phased Out cards with Living Wish.
>>47557964
Overload only works from your hand, so no.
Also, you can't pay two alternate costs.
>Walkers and legends
For Legendary, it looks at the full exact name. For Planeswalkers, it looks at their Planeswalker subtype. Both Lili Vess and Lili of the Block have the subtype "Liliana", so you can't have both.
>>47558014
It's not sacrificed, you just put it in the graveyard.
>>47558115
First, everyone with 13 life loses. THEN everyone gains or loses 1, depending on the trigger you chose. The gain/loss isn't dependent on someone losing. You announce which of the two choices as the trigger goes on the stack.
>>47558120
Depends on how warped they are. If I can tell them apart from your nonfoil cards without looking at the face, that'll be anywhere between a Warning for Marked Cards or a DQ for Cheating.
>>47558164
Kicker is an additional cost, so you can pay it. Overload is an alternate cost. Different thing.
>Exile command zone
The Command Zone is not exile. No interaction.
>>47558191
Nah. If it was, it would say "Each player with exactly 13 life loses the game. If a player loses the game this way...".
>>47558239
I'm pretty sure he means Riftsweeper. And yeah, the Wishes can't find anything WITHIN the game. In a tournament, they can only find things from your sideboard. In casual play, it's pretty much up to your group to decide what they can find. I know some groups have the Wish-using decks have a "Wishboard" of some 20 cards, and some just allow them to pull from literally any card they own that's not in the game, as long as they can get it in a reasonable timeframe.
>>47558500
Hey, wondering your opinion. Not rules related.
Local shop is doing their first draft ever for the store. They have I think a fatpack/something for first, a deck builders kit for 2nd, and something for third.
Expecting 8-20 people, so we're going to have multiple pods. But since it is most (like 95-99%) of the players' first event and the prizing isn't score based but ranking based, what's your opinion on cross-pod pairings?
Otherwise I worry we'll have multiple say, 3-0 with the same score, and tiebreakers will "screw" someone out of prizes.
>>47558637
Cross-pod pairings are a terrible idea. Within a pod, everyone's seen MOSTLY the same cards, but across pods the power can vary wildly.
I would recommend that instead of doing a draft 'tournament' they simply do fill-and-fire pods of 8, single elim, giving payout for 1st through 4th. It's much simpler.
>>47558662
Yeah I really don't like doing cross-pods but its essentially too late to restructure the event much.
I'm more trying to find a way to make the event match the prizes rather than anything else, but that means there's only 3 prizes going out. So we can't do multiple pods unless its just 1st place in each pod that gets a prize, but then we still fall on tiebreakers to determine who gets what.
>>47558709
I would suggest you tell the TO that the structure they have chosen is awkward and will almost certainly result in some really pissed off players, and it might turn EVERYONE off of drafting for a good while, and suggest they do fill-and-fire or a Sealed instead of this... thing.
When they ignore your suggestion, if you are not an employee of the store, wash your hands of the whole thing and walk away. If you ARE an employee, sigh and accept it, and if any players complain, direct 100% of their frustrations to the management.
In the case of Wolf of Devils Breach: if I attack and use its ability to discard a card, and that card has an X value in its cost (like Ravaging Blaze) what damage does it deal? How much does the X count for in terms of converted mana cost?
>>47558747
Sadly I don't think the TO will agree to change the prize structure.
Some background is we're in a small town. I myself travel 45 minutes to reach the store.
No one local there beyond 1-2 players have any experience with actual tournaments, and I'm mostly getting involved to try and help the store avoid the issues we saw in a different one (crappy, crappy store 45 minutes in the other direction). I'm mostly trying to just be a player, and help with rules questions (let my L1 slide, but I keep up on whats going on), but I also want to see this store flourish as the community needs it.
The owner of the store, although having no magic experience, seems open to ideas and help, and after this event I think we'll see more score based prizes and a good setup. It is purely this event which has me concerned and scratching my head trying to think up ideas to dodge the possible issues.
>>47558794
X in a mana cost is always 0 in all zones that aren't the stack.
>>47558801
So, yeah. Suggest changes (even last-minute) as being preferable, and the reasoning behind it. If they rebuff you, accept that but walk away from the event, because it isn't your problem. After the event, talk to them about how it went, and see if they start listening to you.
>>47558839
I'll do what I can to suggest it, but I think after-event it will have to be then. I honestly do think they show a willingness to discuss and work together, its more of an issue that I found the shop late and so all the players knew the prizing before. Not so good to change the prizing after all the players are expecting it.
Thanks for the opinions though, I appreciate them.
How does dovescape work with enduring ideal? Does epic attach if the spell is countered? Are the copies countered?
>>47560005
Epic is part of the spell's effects. If the spell is countered, none of its effects happen, including Epic.
If you resolve an Enduring Ideal and THEN a Dovescape hits the board (possibly because it was fetched with Ideal), you still get your spell. The copies aren't cast, they're just created directly on the stack, so they won't trigger Dovescape.
Does pic related ignore commander tax?
>>47560299
It does not. Fist of Suns (and things like it) provide you with an Alternate Cost to casting spells; something instead of the 'normal' cost in the upper right of the card. Those ONLY replace that base cost; any additional costs (whether they're optional like Kicker, or mandatory like the Commander Tax) are not included in the alternate cost, and still need to be paid.
>>47557817
First off, tell people from the beginning of the game that they shouldn't silently cast spells and resolve them. Tell them to shout HEY I CAST THIS SPELL ALL RIGHT. Make this standard policy and your games will be of much higher quality.
Can you confirm the priority order of the combat step?
Player 1: Go to combat.
>Player 2: OK.
Player 1: I attack with Blighted Agent. Exalted triggers.
>Player 2: Exalted OK. Go to blockers?
Player 1: OK.
>Player 2: No blockers. Any combat tricks post-blockers?
Player 1: No.
>Player 2: Lightning Bolt your Blighted Agent.
Player 1: OK. Blighted Agent dies before damage.
Alternatively,
Player 1: Go to combat.
>Player 2: OK.
Player 1: I attack with Blighted Agent. Exalted triggers.
>Player 2: Exalted OK. Go to blockers?
Player 1: OK.
>Player 2: No blockers. Any combat tricks post-blockers?
Player 1: Yes. Become Immense my Blighted Agent.
>Player 2: OK. Anything else?
Player 1: No.
>Player 2: Terminate your Blighted Agent.
Player 1: OK. Blighted Agent dies before damage.
I was just wondering..
>have Mother of Runes on the battlefield
>cast lets say.. pic related
>opponent use Counterspell against her
Can I tap my Mother of Runes to give Akroma protection from blue and fizzle it out?
>>47562213
1) Mother of Runes can only target creatures on the battlefield. On the stack, they aren't creatures, they're creature spells. In zones that aren't the stack or the battlefield, they're creature cards (which still aren't legal targets)
2) Even if you could somehow give it protection from blue on the stack, protection only works on the battlefield.
3) I hate lists with only 2 items.
>tfw getting neat playmats
>>47562331
Neat. I've got more mats than I know what to do with at this point. I was cycling between them for a while, and then my SO did two custom ones, so I pretty much just use those now.
>>47562351
Yeah, a lot of bigger events just throw playmats at you. We have a whole pile of them that just stays at the LGS everyday because no one bothers anymore.
>>47556163
What are the rules regarding typeless permanents?
>>47562371
I know what you mean. I'm always THANKFUL to get a Judge playmat for working at a GP or other large event, because it's a really neat reminder of a fun weekend, but I just have more than I need. On the plus side, whenever friends come over to hang out I've got mats for days.
>>47562377
Could you be more specific?
What's the mos interesting and/or most fucky combo you've seen played/attempted in a tournament?
Also, thanks for making these threads regularly.
>>47562391
>Could you be more specific?
Say I have March of the Machines, a normally-not-a-creature Artifact, and Neurok Transmuter and turn the artifact into a non-artifact creature. It then loses its creature type (since it's no longer getting it).
How does it interact with the board? Does it stay on the field, despite not having a permanent 'type'? Does it poof out of existence, because of that? Or does it just sit there, blue?
>>47562257
Well shit :(
Another question then
If I tap my Mother of Runes to cast protection from white on one of my creatures, then use Wrath of God, will it survive?
>>47562440
Protection's wording specifies what it stops:
Blocking, targeting, damage, and attaching.
It does not stop destroy effects.
>>47562404
Most of the combos aren't that interesting to me, is the terrible thing; I see them and go "Oh yeah, they're doing X Y Z. Neat."
The most fucky one is Four Horsemen because it technically doesn't work.
Also, you're welcome! Thank you for posting in them and appreciating them.
>>47562428
>How does it interact with the board?
It's a permanent with no types. It doesn't stop existing or anything, it just has no types.
>>47562440
>cast
You aren't "casting" anything. Cast means something very specific in Magic, and this ain't it.
>question
No. Protection from FOO means the thing in question cannot be:
D amaged by FOO spells, FOO permanents, or abilities from FOO sources
E quipped/Enchanted/Fortified by FOO permanents
B locked by FOO creatures
T argeted by FOO spells, or abilities from FOO sources.
D E B T. Damage, Enchant/Equip, Block, Target. Those are the only things stopped by protection. Wrath of God does none of these things, so protection does not stop it.
>>47558477
>overload only works from your hand
You're supposed to be the judge here and you're literally wrong
>>47562527
Yeah, my bad! I mixed up Overload and Fuse. RTFC.
Also, fun fact: Being a judge doesn't mean I'm infallible anymore than NOT being a judge makes someone else always wrong. I'm human, guys.
>>47562546
Okay I'm sorry I was so harsh I just didn't see anybody correct you and I didn't want to see an authority figure spread false info
This is a question of incredible pedantry. If I milled a creature from my library into my graveyard, could my opponent make the case that I cannot use Dread Return to bring it into play, since Dread Return specifically says *return* to the battlefield? It technically wasn't on the battlefield in the first place.
>>47562587
I used to worry about that but no
Dread return works on cards that were milled
Also, your opponents don't get to "argue" anything rules wise, the rules are what they are
>>47562587
>incredible pedantry
Oh boy, my specialty!
>actual question
They absolutely could argue that, much in the same way I can argue that 2 + 2 = Fish, or that vegemite is edible. The word "return" is not formally defined by the rules of the game, which means it's just a sort of "use common sense" thing.
>>47562477
not that guy, but what about if i use blasphemous act, and my friend uses protection from red on his creatures, do they survive then?
>>47562633
Is Blasphemous Act attempting to Damage, Equip/Enchant/Fortify, Block, or Target your creatures?
>>47562645
just wanted to make sure, thanks
>>47562630
>or that vegemite is edible
Your opinion of marmite better be the opposite, gA
>>47562621
>>47562630
Thanks!
>that vegemite is edible.
listen here u litle shit
I'm sure you've been asked this dozens of times before in these threads, but what's your opinon on Goyfgate?
My opponent activates daretti's -2 ability
Am I correct in saying that he doesn't have to target an artifact he controls at that point? He only has to target an artifact card in his graveyard. This is different from goblin welder
And then suppose I cast stifle on the ability? If I do, he doesn't have to sacrifice an artifact right? That's part of the resolution of the ability, which isn't resolving
My daretti friend was 100% convinced he sacrificed the artifact as a cost for the ability, which would've helped him because the artifact in question had a leaves the battlefield trigger, his reasoning was the phrase "if you do" implies the first part is a cost
I said no it's he opposite, "if you do" phrasing is specifically when the cost: effect formatting will not apply, and the if you do represents a conditional effect
>>47562933
Always look for the ":", everything before it is the cost, everything after is part of the resolution. You are right in this case and your friend is sadly wrong.
>>47562873
Is this an actual issue, or just another one of those millions of non-issues that people inflate?
>>47561886
>Can you confirm the priority order of the combat step?
Both look good. One thing could be made better though.
Player 1: Go to combat.
>Player 2: OK.
Player 1: I attack with Blighted Agent. Exalted triggers.
>Player 2: Exalted OK.
Player 1: Go to blockers?
>Player 2: OK. No blockers. Any combat tricks post-blockers?
Player 1: No.
>Player 2: Lightning Bolt your Blighted Agent.
Player 1: OK. Blighted Agent dies before damage.
The key difference is that Player 2 used to reveal they had nothing to do before going to blockers, which is information that didn't need to be revealed at this time.
>>47565431
The second one. The only person who was mad about it was the guy to whom it would have been passed
>>47562873
Pretty much a non-opinion. At the time, he decided that the EV of snatching and selling the foil Goyf was more than the EV of picking the card for his deck, and I can't fault him for that.
>>47562933
Daretti's -2 has exactly one target: the target artifact card in the graveyard. If Stifled, none of the effects happen, so he doesn't sac anything. If it were a cost for the ability, it'd be on the LEFT side of the colon, not the right.
Sorry for the delay- I went grocery shopping and then real life blew up in my face for about five hours.
>>47556163
Hey GA,
So Tin Fins is a legacy deck that aims to reanimate a griselbrand loop children of korilis to gain an arbitrary amount of life and kill with either an Emrakul or Tendrils. It is possible in game 1 of a tournament to continuously draw and sac children of korilis, while casting spells and changing the game state, to get near infinite amounts of mana and life. One can also take extra turns with emrakul then sac it with cabal therapy and repeat the (non infinite) loop. Could a player extend the game in such a way so that they get into extra turns before actually killing their opponent? Would a judge give you a slow play warning even though you are changing the game state every time you cast a spell, draw cards, and take extra turns and combat steps?
Thanks.
