Your boy is going to a modern tournament today for some cash. Entry is like 40 dollars and like 80 people are going to go. The question is in a diverse meta where everything is going to show up do i play Mono Red Burn or Blue Red Delver? I know tron,infect,burn,jeskai control, graveyard shit strategies, grixis, jund, is going to be there. Whats the right call.
>>47552016
Post lists for each
>>47552016
Jund.
>>47552016
Creatures (18)
4x Goblin guide
4x monastery swiftspear
4x Vexing Devil
4x Eidolon of the great Revel
2x Grim lavamancer
Spells (24)
4x lightning bolt
4x lava spike
4x Rift bolt
4x Searing blaze
4x Skullcrack
2x Flames of the Blood hand
2x Shard volley
Lands (18)
10x Mountain
8 fetches
>>47552016
19 LANDS
5 Island
4 Misty Rainforest
1 Mountain
4 Scalding Tarn
2 Steam Vents
1 Sulfur Falls
2 Wandering Fumarole
14 CREATURES
4 Delver of Secrets
4 Snapcaster Mage
2 Vendilion Clique
4 Young Pyromancer
27 INSTANTS and SORC.
1 Dismember
2 Electrolyze
4 Gitaxian Probe
1 Izzet Charm
4 Lightning Bolt
3 Mana Leak
3 Remand
4 Serum Visions
1 Spell Pierce
2 Spell Snare
2 Vapor Snag
>>47552204
>fetches in mono-red
Why?
>>47552254
Thins the deck out, fuels grim lavamancer, I have them lying around
>>47552268
Deck thinning isn't real.
>>47552276
Over the first 1-5 turns, Deck Thinning via Fetch Lands give you a 1-4% higher chance of drawing a spell (rather than a land). Over turns 5-10, a "thinned" deck gives the player a 3-7% higher chance of drawing spells over land.
>>47552310
It has been proven several times that deck thinning doesn't work, here are some links so you can't be a whiny bitch about source.
http://www.mtgsalvation.com/forums/the-game/standard-type-2/standard-archives/91308-fetch-lands-deck-thinning-is-a-myth
http://magic.tcgplayer.com/db/print.asp?ID=3096
>>47552351
Bro that first article straight up says its real but says that anything less than a 5% advantage is irrelevant, still 5% why not
>>47552397
Because as burn, you aren't supposed to get late enough in the game for that 5%.
>>47552204
Vexing devil is a trap.
>>47552415
>hello lets just throw % out the window for no good reason whatsoever!
also
>Fuels Lavamancer
>>47552427
In Mono red you take what you can get
>>47552428
First article has some science bitch crunch the numbers
>>47552432
There are better cards for mono-red than ones that give your opponent a choice.
>>47552442
>still ignoring lavamancer
yeah okay, just play the fetches
>>47552453
Like?
>>47552428
Listen. That percentage shouldn't even be 2% by the time you're closing out the game as burn. That, and you're paying life for it. Just run mountains, and consider Blood Moon or Magus over the devils.
>>47552481
??
still not even talking about % anymore, run them to fuel lavamancer
>>47552458
You shouldn't be running out of lavamancer fuel with all the burn spells you cast.
>>47552481
I'm not playing blood moon or magus main board because i dont have autism
>>47552497
Okay, imagine you fetch twice, then exile both to lavamancer. You've paid two life, one mana, and tapped a creature, all for 2 damage and a shuffle. At that point, you may as well just attack with lavamancer.
>>47552502
>I don't want free wins
>>47552525
why would you attack with your split removal/damage spell?
>>47552525
Lava mancer can ping creatures
>>47552254
>Fetches in any deck
Honestly, why pay life to "thin," my deck (thinning provides a negligible advantage) when I could just straight up play a basic that turn?
>>47552557
because a fetch is potentially any color of mana with duals?
>>47552557
Color-fixing.
>>47552537
Get real blood moon main board is like me wearing a condom under my pants in the club. Just take it put it out after g1 if you really want it
>>47552557
Then just add in an extra dual land in place of the fetch, you'll draw it with the same frequency theoretically.
>>47552557
Because you have the wrong basic in your hand.
>>47552538
>>47552544
You're missing the point. 2 life for 2 damage isn't as good as bolting twice and using those as fuel. You shouldn't be playing long enough to run out of lavamancer fuel in the first place.
>>47552576
None of what you just said means anything, and Blood Moon is free wins, and better than Vexing Devil.
>>47552596
Listen it's alright to be wrong man.You are wrong. Science proves it, legacy burn proves it, my win rate proves it.
>>47552584
But it might not be the right dual. A fetch is always the right dual.
>>47552620
Listen blood moon does 0 damage, and worse case scenario vexing devil eats some removal. Blood moon is good and i like it IN THE FUCKING SIDEBOARD
>>47552628
Yeah lol okay dude, enjoy your FNM wins, maybe you'll try a real tournament someday.
>>47552596
But SOMETIMES
You have to slog through a guy that plays a finks or something
and having a good long game plan that doesn't impact your short game plan at all is just a good idea, because you know, sometimes things go wrong, and it's those games where you claw your way to victory that really matter.
>>47552659
Gp Detroit top 100 with mono red burn. I've made more money with mono red burn than i spend on it.
>>47552653
Blood moon stops them from casting anything. That's a free win, retard. Vexing devil is never what you want it to be. Need that 4 damage? Nope, it's a 4/3. Need a blocker? Nope, 4 damage.
>>47552584
>>47552680
Blood moon is good, and for someone who doesn't play burn it would be hard to understand why it isn't good in the mainboard. I can win games with 1-2 mana. You want to be doing 9 damage on turn 3 instead of slamming a blood moon
>>47552676
Hello fellow grinder!
You seem to have made a mistake and forgotten that /tg/ is shit at magic!
Try not to take ANYTHING they say seriously, and just laugh it off when they act retarded.
>>47552712
I came hear asking a simple question. Deck 1 or deck 2 because i couldn't decide. I still haven't gotten an answer
>>47552728
You realize treasure cruise is banned in modern right? I cannot with good conscience recommend either decks atm. Play infect or Naya Burn or Affinity if you want to play aggro.
>>47552700
Still better than Vexing Devil.
>>47552676
sure
>>47552752
Treasure cruise delver straight up won me my first modern 1k
>>47552780
It's still banned.
>>47552728
Why would you waste 40 bucks unless you're going to bring something competitive to the table?
Unless you you play a tier 1 deck you're just throwing your money away.
>>47552806
First off get real. Playing decks that have good match ups against tier 1 decks is a thing. Delver is good enough to take first place easy. Half the retards that build tier 1 decks are just net deck faggots who can't play jeskai control to save their fucking life.
>>47552204
>2x Flames of the Blood hand
lol no. Dont run this shit.
>>47552833
Wow, burn players really are retarded.
>>47552870
First off delver v. infect i'll take my free win. Delver vs nahiri free win. Delver vs burn after my 0-2 i'll go get a sandwich or something. Delver vs jund guys too distracted by his foiled out jund deck to learn how to play it. I'll play delver go like 7-1 take first take my cash and buy more foil delvers
>>47552911
Sure kid.
>>47552254
Niggah are you serious?
>>47552929
Ok tell me what your going to take to a modern tournament
>>47552955
Me? Hatebears. I love seeing fetches in mono-colored decks.
>>47552596
>2 life for 2 damage isn't as good as bolting twice and using those as fuel.
With fetches you can have both thats the point idiot.
>>47552977
That doesn't make sense, why would you need more cards to exile? Are you not casting enough burn spells?
>>47552971
you wont stand a chance unless you are playing tier 1, proceeds to talk about his fucking tier 2 pile of trash
>>47553024
Hey, I never said it was tier one, just that it stomps your deck into the ground.
>>47552204
dont even need to read the rest of the thread. play this over delver.
>>47552971
Doesn't hate bears have a good matchup against Burn because of 4x Thalia and sometimes Lone Missionary?
>>47552977
I'm on your side dude. The points of life seem unimportant in the long run. Who cares what you're on in burn as long as you can count to 20 faster. And if it takes 2 life and R to close out the game with a lavamancer shit that's what you gotta do
>>47553034
Ok let me make a list of why you are wrong.
1. You put out a bunch of creatures and yell bolt me
2. Hatebears is no good late game because white weenie is fucking garbo in modern
3. You wont see this shit on table 1 because despite its gq it still can't beat tron
4. Dicked on by searing blaze and burn
5. Dicked on by infect
6. Dicked on by elves
7. Dicked on by any control deck
Take your trash deck back to legacy
>>47553044
Yeah, and especially so if he's running fetches. Nothing sweeter than a T1 mana dork into a T2 Mindcensor in response to a fetch.
>>47553079
1 toughness creatures really shining in modern right? lol this trash
>>47553001
>That doesn't make sense, why would you need more cards to exile? Are you not casting enough burn spells?
>Are you not casting enough burn spells?
Maybe I am not. Just one of many reason to run Mancers
>>47553074
Except that none of that is true. Tron gets fucked by Tec Edge or Ghost Quarter with a search blocker, Thalia fucks control and burn, those other shits die to Path+search blockers, and your first two points mean nothing.
>>47553096
Man, you're salty as fuck. If you have no lands, what are you going to do about it?
>>47553101
But why aren't you?
>>47553120
List the cards that are relevant in certain match ups that if you don't see you'll die because your trash deck has no real win condition over than sucking your opponents dick until he goes soft
blue cont ftw
>>47552955
Infect. Been playing it for years now so it's my most practiced deck. It's also really good right now, although I've been thinking about breaking out good ol' Jund recently.
>>47553150
Every card in my deck is relevant. Meanwhile, you play this pile when you could be playing Naya Burn and actually winning.
>>47553129
what if they are stabilizing and you need that extra push? always look at worst possible scenario.
>>47553161
Infect is a respectable deck if you cheese. 10x better than that one fag who is trying to convince himself that hatebears is good and his 10 dollar aven mindcensor wasn't wasted fucking money he could have spent on some fucking foil delvers
>>47552016
>The question is in a diverse meta where everything is going to show up do i play Mono Red Burn or Blue Red Delver?
What?
Neither, you play neither OP. Burn is slightly the better deck but for an 80 player diverse meta you play Jund.
>>47553209
jund aka fag town.
>>47553193
That's the first good argument I've heard so far. Still, why not play Naya and get more use out of those fetches, while also getting Nacatls, Goyfs, and Atarka's Command?
>>47553192
Hatebears is actually fairly well positioned at the moment I think, though it's changed somewhat. There will be an optimal list featuring eldrazi before too long.
But what do I know I play Skred/white and go 3/1 every week at fnm and never get first.
>>47553198
>plays tier x
>laughs at tier 2
Show me where Ghost Quarter touched you.
>>47553252
Netdeckers=tier fags. I could take a mono green fucking stompy deck and shit on some tournament. Don't act like tier 1 beats tier 2 100% of the time
>>47553275
I didn't. I win with tier 2. You're the one who said that Hatebears was garbage because it's tier 2.
>>47553001
>hand is 2 mountains, 3 vatiety of bolts, guide, lavamancer
>T1 mountain, guide
>T2 mountain, lavamancer, bolt
>T3 bolt, activate lavamancer, whoops that was my whole graveyard because I was too cheap and fucking stupid to buy fetches
>MUH MATH AND SCIENCE DECK THINNING DOESN'T REAL SHUT UP SYNERGY DOESN'T MATTER I'LL JUST SHIT MY PANTS AND GET FREE WINS OFF OPPONENTS WHO WON'T TOLERATE THE SMELL
>>47553293
So here is whats up if you say tier automatically you're gay. So now that thats out of the way your shitty hatebear deck is gay because not because its tier 2 but because you are a white weenie faggot. Good luck at table 15+ shitting on some homebrew faggot who just shoots himself in the foot
>>47553311
I've never seen anyone this salty before, congratulations. Also, you drew a card each turn, you have two more burn spells in hand, your guide might be dead too. In that example, you have enough fuel.
>>47553340
I can't believe some retards are still trying to act like running fetch lands in mono red isnt good. You are a faggot if you dont run them end of story science straight up says your gay
>>47553340
No because you didn't have fetches thinning lids our you drew a bunch of mountains and flooded out
>>47553328
>>47553357
>if I call him a faggot, I win!
>>47553358
We already established that thinning isn't real, retard.
>>47553371
go turn your hatebears deck into a fucking burn deck and start winning /faggot/
>>47553357
>>47553371
jesus fucking christ
If you're running Grim Lavamancer you run fetches because he makes for something of a long game plan.
If you're not running Grim Lavamancer you are probably better off running basic mountains because deck thinning is negligible. Run one less mountain if you're paranoid about it.
>>47553311
>I'LL JUST SHIT MY PANTS AND GET FREE WINS OFF OPPONENTS WHO WON'T TOLERATE THE SMELL
Real talk that's a legit strategy. I'd concede at regular FNM to get out of playing with someone that smells like literal shit
>>47553388
Lol okay dude
>>47553396
If your lgs doesn't kick the fucking smelly fat fucks out why are you even going there
>>47553399
Bro i can't see you all the way back at table 16 while i'm posted up at 1 all day getting my free wins while getting blown by jesus
>>47553407
They buy and open booster boxes. Not even to draft. They just sit arounde opening packs because they like it or something. There are like 6 of them that are fat as shit and smell awful all the time but between them the owner sells like 3-5 cases every set so he tolerates them despite the occasional complaint
>>47553429
So if you live in america like all the good magic players like me you can take care of this easily. Start fucking hacking their tires and leaving deaths threats on their windshields. While youre hiding behind their car in the dark fuck with the gas tank too. Fill it with sugar. They won't have enough money to fix their car and buy boxes therefore solving your problem of smelly fat assholes at your lgs. Also you could kill them but thats a whole thing. If you aren't american you are a fag (obviously) and should just move to a new lgs.
>>47553467
I suppose that could work but I think the risk isn't worth it. There's only one other store that does magic within 50 miles and I'm already banned from there. If they figured out it was me bullying the fatties and banned me from that store too I wouldn't have anywhere else to go play magic.
>>47553423
Okay bro. Want me to lend you some good cards?
>>47553502
First off you won't get caught. Second off getting banned isn't that bad because why would you want to hang around fatties. Also worse case scenario you get banned and go to jail for like maybe 2 years then you get out and start playing mtgo. Also how does one get banned from an lgs? I go hard every week talk shit and basically steal from everyone else by taking their money in the form of first place prize.
>>47553519
You should have bought into the best mtg color (red) instead of the gayest (white)
best advice i can give a bottom table bitch like yourself is to get some fake cards online. Nobody really gives a shit about what goes on at the back tables. I hear the judges dont even go back there
>>47553548
I imagine you would know where to get the best fakes, given your...situation.
>>47553602
Villa Zheng is a real ass china man who will hook u up via the internet. If you are racist go overpay on esty.com or some other gay craft website
>>47553548
2 years in jail then playing strictly modo sounds like shit desu.
Also I'm banned because the owner of the other shop is a cunt who bans people that don't let him push them around. Also apparently the word nigger is "extremely offensive" even if the offended person wasn't in the fucking conversation and should just mind their own god damned business
Alright OP out gotta go crush some sleep before i crush the fags at my lgs.
Final thoughts on the thread.
Blood Moon Mainboard is gay
Fuck that hatebear guy
Tiers are gay
I guarantee that hatebear guy has never gotten 1st place at his fnm
If you don't like fetches in mono red you are an autistic kid who can't handle the fact that fetches make grim lavamancer fucking broken
If you don't like fetches in mono red you probably believe in god too because the scientific evidence isnt enough for you
>>47553657
Sue him straight up. It's your something amendment right to call someone a nigger. Take it to court
How the hell do you beat seasons past control?
>>47553685
>"Your honor, I have been wronged."
>"I was banned from this guy's shop for saying the word nigger."
>>47554343
play a good deck.
>>47554343
Exile. Exile fucking everything. There's no way for season's past to get shit out of exile and very little way to get seasons past itself out of the graveyard - and for that reason it's a card the SP player NEVER wants to actually draw unless he can cast it that turn. Some players are even spotting pick the brains to rip all the copies out - and if you manage to live the dream and extract all their copies, most good players will concede on the spot.
t. seasons past control player.
>>47553685
The only reason to play fetches at any red mono deck is grim lavamancer (and sideboard splashes), and that's the only correct answer.
Your 1-3% (why not ~5%? Because your deck won't last to the late game) to draw a card doesn't come for free but you pay for it 1 life.
Did no one point out that fetchlands turn on landfall for Searing Blaze during the opponent's turn?
