Mind Hacks Edition
OFFICIAL BOOKS
>Eclipse Phase PDFs
http://robboyle.wordpress.com/eclipse-phase-pdfs
>Zone Stalkers
http://www.mediafire.com/view/d0hpgo776xpx50p/Eclipse_Phase_Zone_Stalkers.pdf
>Morph Recognition Guide
http://www.mediafire.com/download/j4bjbba89kw8v0y/Eclipse_Phase_Morph_Recognition_Guide_%286098716%29.pdf
>Million Year Echo
http://www.mediafire.com/view/f53f1c5yq777tpk/Million_Year_Echo.pdf
>Firewall (Updated):
http://www.mediafire.com/view/9jg6q9d9kqa59qu/Eclipse_Phase_Firewall_(7029562).pdf
>Transhumanity's FATE (FATE Conversion)
http://www.mediafire.com/download/ae113ujgd3hggpl/Transhumanitys_FATE.pdf
PLAY AIDS:
>10 things you should know about Eclipse Phase
https://docs.google.com/document/d/1Qnrh0w7H0Jl2_CSsySRxcs4ugw27xsBIk5MYwXq2nDQ/edit
>Advice for new players and GMs
http://pastebin.com/e0EErN6X
>Online character creator
http://eclipsephase.next-loop.com/Creator/version4/index.php
>Eclipse Phase hacking cheet sheet
http://www.mediafire.com/view/?axe1vs35muk4juh
>Eclipse Phase xls Character sheet
https://sites.google.com/site/eclipsephases/home/cabinet
>Package Character Creator
https://firewallagency.wordpress.com/
COMMUNITY CONTENT:
>3 new adventures for your use in convenient PDF form
http://awdaberton.wordpress.com/about/
>Ander's Sandberg's Eclipse Phase fanmade content, including several modules
http://www.aleph.se/EclipsePhase/
>Farcast: An Eclipse Phase yearblog full of items, locations, NPCs, and plot hooks
http://www.mediafire.com/download/dhqd1m83xc1wmpj/Farcast_Yearblog_2013.pdf
>The Ultimate's Guide to Combat
http://eclipsephase.com/sites/default/files/UltimatesGuideToCombat11a.pdf
/EPG/ HOMEBREW CONTENT
https://docs.google.com/document/d/19Gy02gp6-WPQ3SoN_24kLPTUu5EjFO8qh_9pjJSVrrY/edit
Previous Thread: >>47461318
what is the best way to fill an opponent's mind with fuck?
>>47543675
Capture his ego, put him in a x60 simulation of an endless drug fueled rape-orgy, leave him in there for three objective months, pull him out now that he's experienced nearly 14 subjective years of rape orgy. Then put him in an anatomically correct cyberhound and enter him into Grand Mega Murderfuck LCVII. Make mad bank.
>>47543675
>>47543733
In the short term, scorchers, or AR illusion scorchers (less powerful, but work on bio brains)
>>47543675
>>47543733
>>47544002
That was fast.
>>47544453
>That was fast.
did you even think about your question
you should have immediately thought of time dilation and some very unpleasant experience for his infomorph
Does having mental speed allow you to speed up certain actions like psycho surgery and what not or do you have to be in a server or special simul-space to do that?
How much of a bonus would you give to someone making Infosec rolls when trying to gain admin privileges into something if they have high scores in Programming, Academics: Computer Science, Hardware: Electronics, Hardware: Robotics, Hardware: Implants, and Interfacing skills?
>>47545718
I would think at best a +10 but I think if another person on the team has one of those and it goes towards whatever you're trying to do they can give you bonuses to the roll.
>>47545718
Isn't a limit of +10 or +20 to using skills like that?
>>47545800
Cumulative I think you can have a maximum of +60 total modifiers to a test. The actual Complementary bonus is between +10 and +30 based on your skill level.
>>47545718
I'm pretty sure the Complementary skill rule is mostly for Knowledge skills, not active skills, so Computer science applies.
Even if it does work Active with Active, unless your GM is the biggest, cuddliest carebear in the world he should be giving a stern side-eye on some of those choices. Robotics or Implants should have jackall with understanding how to gain admin privileges in the software of a system - though you might roll them before hand to know a way to say, access computers in those things in the first place. Programming would only apply if you were actually coding something to use in this case.
>>47545718
Admin privileges to what system?
>>47546012
Forgot to mention Academics: Cryptography as well.
>Robotics or Implants should have jackall with understanding how to gain admin privileges in the software of a system
Agreed, unless said system is robotic or an implant in which case you might have an advantage, no?
>Programming would only apply if you were actually coding something to use in this case.
This doesn't make sense to me. Infosec is described as:
>Infosec is short for "information security." It encompasses training in electronic intrusion and counterintrusion techniques as well as encryption and decryption.
While Programming is described as:
>Programming is your talent at writing and modifying software code.
You should have a /better/ understanding of exploiting vulnerabilities if you have a good understanding of programming. That's how it works in real life too. I would also say that the Computer Science and Cryptography skills should factor into helping you out.
Additionally, what is the feasibility of a Quantum Computer implant?
>>47546073
>Admin privileges to what system?
Let's say it's just a regular computer system.
>>47546197
Programming would be used to produce the software tools used for electronic intrusion. Infosec is the skill with using those tools (mostly knowing when to use what)
/epg/, describe your commute
>>47546372
From dick to dick.
>>47546272
>Programming would be used to produce the software tools used for electronic intrusion
Would you
1. Allow someone to suddenly declare he's going to create +30 encryption, exploit, firewall, etc software?
2. What kind of bonuses would you give to the person for having the skills listed above when trying to do this?
>>47546445
>1. Allow someone to suddenly declare he's going to create +30 encryption, exploit, firewall, etc software?
That would take a long time and he would need to know what systems he's making the exploits for. It would also be extremely difficult to get a +30.
How viable would kidnapping people, or taking infugees and then psychosurgically altering them to be infallibly loyal to a group be for a merc corp? What if we forked them?
>>47546197
>Agreed, unless said system is robotic or an implant in which case you might have an advantage, no?
No, as described by the game, Hardware is used to physically bypass (as well as repair and mod) systems. You use it as an alternative to InfoSec, and it might be useful to set up an InfoSec test. Just because you know how to fix a robotic arm doesn't mean you know how to log in to the computer system that administers that robot arm.
As an alternative, you could rig a robotic arm to do something you wanted regardless of any attached software though. It might provide a bonus to other tests once you're actually in the system.
>You should have a /better/ understanding of exploiting vulnerabilities if you have a good understanding of programming.
Well, it's like >>47546272 said, if you're a real hacker you probably whip up a quality exploit or whatever software before you start running an InfoSec check. Software quality is actually accounted for in the modifiers on that test. Remember, Programming is an Active skill, it applies when you're actually doing something it says, but obtaining admin privileges does not require writing or modifying code. Your knowledge of exploits and defense techniques is covered by an appropriate knowledge skill.
> I would also say that the Computer Science and Cryptography skills should factor into helping you out.
And they probably would, this is how the Complementary rule works.
>>47546445
I mean, that's a thing you can do. You could certainly try to pay extra for that information, why not program them? Difficulty involved is up to the GM of course, but software quality is again, supposed to be counted in those tests if it applies.
Keep in mind, it's hardly sudden, you'll probably be at it subjective hours or days by most Task Action standards.
>>47546584
Possible, but prone to bugs. Never know how someone is going to take all that psychosurgery. Forking could compound.
>>47546535
>That would take a long time
Not if you follow the rules it doesn't.
>he would need to know what systems he's making the exploits for
Not according to the rules he doesn't.
>It would also be extremely difficult to get a +30.
Yes, which is why I asked what kind of complementary bonuses he would get given high levels in:
Programming, Academics: Computer Science, Academics: Cryptography, Hardware: Electronics, Hardware: Robotics, Hardware: Implants, Infosec, and Interfacing
I would think that he should get a +10 at least from the computer science knowledge, and depending on specific software he is designing he should get another +10 (like for the encryption software and having academics: cryptography)
>>47546445
>2. What kind of bonuses would you give to the person for having the skills listed above when trying to do this?
Academics: Cryptography would certainly help for writing the cyptography software. Some of the other stuff might help when the exploits are for the described systems, though I'm not sure when Hardware: Electronics might be helpful
>>47546687
>I would think that he should get a +10 at least from the computer science knowledge, and depending on specific software he is designing he should get another +10 (like for the encryption software and having academics: cryptography)
I mean, if you're gonna go digging around, capping the rules, maybe you should pop over to page 173 and look at the Complementary skill table?
>>47546584
its a standard strategy for shady opperations, and can be pretty reliable. On the other hand, psychosurgery is anything but infallible.
>>47546739
>look at the Complementary skill table?
So assuming I have a 61 Programming, Academics: Computer Science, and Academics: Cryptography, I get the full +60 modifier on my attempt to create a +30 level encryption/decryption software.
61 in computer science and infosec gives me another +60 for exploits.
Computer science and infosec/programming gives me a +60 for firewalls
Computer science and hardware: electronics gives me a +60 on sniffer and spoofer software.
Agree or disagree?
>>47546823
Mostly right. It's up to the GM anyway on what exactly applies. I'd personally probably split hairs on Hardware for something like say spoofing, since that also seems to be for faking computer commands, but eh, probably depends on what your end-goal for the hack is.
>>47546584
Literally what Firewall does if you start to question them.
>>47546823
There is a hard cap of +60 you can get detailed on page 115.
>>47546823
>>47546869
Also keeping in mind, having a 61+ native in multiple skills is slightly expensive, especially if you're not just being a prick and buying exactly that 61st point. Somebody with all those skills rated that high is basically an elite programmer and hacker of the highest order. Real wizard-class.
>>47546823
These rules are the worst for people who like to keep their skills at nice round numbers.
>>47546687
When task actions are for days or weeks, how many hours a day does it assume you're spending on it? 8? 16? 20? All 24?
>>47546890
>There is a hard cap of +60 you can get detailed on page 115.
I know that, and I said that in that post.
I'm talking about complementary skill bonuses.
Assuming I wanted to do the programming test to see if I can create the custom encryption software, let's say I have a programming skill of 50.
So you get a -30 for trying to create something so difficult, but your knowledge of computer science and cryptography gives you a +60 bonus, so you effectively have a +30 bonus to create that software, and thus need to roll 80 or under to create it.
That's all I wanted to clarify.
>>47546910
>Also keeping in mind, having a 61+ native in multiple skills is slightly expensive, especially if you're not just being a prick and buying exactly that 61st point.
You could do it in character creation easily if you wanted you character just to be a wizard tier super hacker.
Another question I had would be if I locked out a watchdog AI on a computer system I was trying to hack, I don't need to make any of the opposed rolls when I'm trying to do subversion type shit, right?
Also I would still like opinions on a quantum computer implant or portable device to crack public key encryption.
>>47546687
>>That would take a long time
>Not if you follow the rules it doesn't.
8 weeks is pretty long. You probably won't be finished in the same game session unless there's a big time cut.
>>he would need to know what systems he's making the exploits for
>It doesn't say so on this page therefore no such rule exists
You're the worst kind of rules lawyer. Exploit software exploits particular security holes.
>I would think that he should get a +10 at least from the computer science knowledge
Only in cases where you're trying to defeat specific algorithms as opposed to just back dooring or something.
>>47546823
No, you get up to +30 for complementary skills
>>47545608
Transhuman has rules for how mental speed or other things, and the Speed stat effect task actions. IIRC it's 10% off per extra complex action/point of speed above one, stacking additively and maxing at 90% time reduction. This also stacks additively with % time reduction with stuff like the Instinct sleight.
>>47546445
There are rules for making +30 exploit software, it's under the "Elite Exploits" sidebar. It takes a while though.
>>47546823
Those skill bonuses are really between you and the GM, so it doesn't really matter what we think. The way the skill system works out hacking basically ends up being a roll off most times though, and with those seemingly easy to access bonuses on both sides every ends up with a 99% anyway
>>47546823
You don't get to use more than 1 complementary skill at once.
>>47546982
>Another question I had would be if I locked out a watchdog AI on a computer system I was trying to hack, I don't need to make any of the opposed rolls when I'm trying to do subversion type shit, right?
Not unless someone is actively monitoring the system
>Also I would still like opinions on a quantum computer implant or portable device to crack public key encryption.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Quantum_key_distribution
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography
>>47546994
>No, you get up to +30 for complementary skills
>>47547013
>You don't get to use more than 1 complementary skill at once.
Nowhere in the book does it say this to my knowledge. If it does, please post a screencap.
>You're the worst kind of rules lawyer. Exploit software exploits particular security holes.
No, it's treated like an exploit package like dsploit or kali linux. It does not say or even imply that you need to design specific exploits for specific systems. You simply purchase or design software to use when you're doing this.
>>47547044
>wikipedia
If we were following real life, then qubits are a dime a dozen when you have quantum computers in large supply and can field quantum cryptography, and public key encryption is cracked in minutes via Shor's/Grover's algorithm alone, much less what has been developed in 10AF.
>>47546959
Rules under task actions assumes the character works 8 hours a day. If you work more you can adjust accordingly. Also every 10 MoS is -10% time.
>>47546982
>You could do it in character creation easily if you wanted you character just to be a wizard tier super hacker.
I mean, you can. That's my point, like, such a miracle-worker can be expected to have these high bonuses. But assuming average Aptitudes, that's still like 230 points in skills, split between active and knowledge, that's a decent chunk of your base to be the equivalent of a multiple Master's degree. That's also being an asshole with 61 in each skill, being more rounded to like 70 per skill would be way more points.
>Another question I had would be if I locked out a watchdog AI on a computer system I was trying to hack, I don't need to make any of the opposed rolls when I'm trying to do subversion type shit, right?
Yes, rolls stop being opposed if there's nothing left to actively defend the system.
>Also I would still like opinions on a quantum computer implant or portable device to crack public key encryption.
I think all gear is assumed medium sized unless otherwise noted, so you can probably carry a quantum computer. Hiding one in your body is likely to be tougher and more uncomfortable.
>>47547122
>That's also being an asshole with 61 in each skill, being more rounded to like 70 per skill would be way more points.
Getting all those skills to 70 from 60 is only another 160 points out of 1000.
>>47547254
>1000
Yeah, right, you're a wizard class hacker in a Flat. Sure. With no Rep and no money.
>>47547093
>Nowhere in the book does it say this to my knowledge. If it does, please post a screencap.
See >>47546823, note that complenting skill is singular
>One person can write an entire exploit package from scratch in 2 weeks
lol
>No, it's treated like an exploit package like dsploit or kali linux.
Transhuman, page 108
>a character with
exploit software for fabber DRM
>If we were following real life, then qubits are a dime a dozen when you have quantum computers in large supply and can field quantum cryptography, and public key encryption is cracked in minutes via Shor's/Grover's algorithm alone, much less what has been developed in 10AF.
All of that is the case in EP. You have to realize that when they say qubits in the book they're refering to stable entangled qubits. The big issue with implementing quantum cryptography is that it doesn't work very well with out a hard line except at the shortest ranges, so classical cryptography does still get used.
https://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/Mesh+Security
>>47547349
>Yeah, right, you're a wizard class hacker in a Flat
A menton costs like 40CP.
Rep isn't so incredibly expensive that you wouldn't be able to get those skills to 70.
Maybe he spent the money on extra implants.
I might just go create a character to prove this to you.
>>47547371
>note that complenting skill is singular
It does not explicitly say that you are only allowed one complementary skill. In fact that's just stupid. If you personally would rule that was in a game, then fine, but the book does not support that.
>>47547371
>exploit software for fabber DRM
Your one example of a description of how to allocate funds refutes the very clear explanation that intrusion/hacking software is treated as a general package in the CORE rulebook? I don't think so.
>All of that is the case in EP.
No it's not. The book explicitly states that it takes a quantum computer around a week to crack a public encryption key when they talk about breaking VPNs. It would take 2 minutes in real life.
>The big issue with implementing quantum cryptography is that it doesn't work very well with out a hard line except at the shortest ranges, so classical cryptography does still get used.
What? The issue is that the game enforces arbitrary restrictions on the amount of qubits. Quantum encryption is literally unbreakable by anything because of state changing.
So yesterday my friends and I were playing a new eclipse phase group. We were going to be a search and rescue/ scav team in the main belt. With a little financial help, I am now a 20 meter space dragon that eats small ships and habitats.
I used a neo-sperm whale body, modified to live in space. Added carapace armor - body modded into scales with heavy nanotats, skin coloration, and sub-dermal implants. With a strengthened skeleton, augmented muscles, and multiple cyber limbs, slitheroid mobility systems, and robotic wings equipped with jets I am now a dragon.
Two large torches implanted in my throat with fire proofing and very large cyberclaws make tearing open military craft a breeze.
I dont look quite as pic, more biological, you get the drift. Whats the weirdest/ coolest character you have made tg?
>>47547469
>the very clear explanation that intrusion/hacking software is treated as a general package in the CORE rulebook?
Where does it say that?
>It would take 2 minutes in real life.
Not if they're expecting quantum computers to be used against it.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Post-quantum_cryptography
>The issue is that the game enforces arbitrary restrictions on the amount of qubits.
So you have no fucking clue what a qubit reservoir is supposed to be then. Quantum computers in the game don't use them. Only QE comms do, which right-thinking GMs remove anyway.
>>47547349
Rep is cheap as fuck and money can be made later without expending Rez/CP. Dunno why the devs bothered distinguishing between the two. Also, you could just have them at 65. 65 shouldn't trigger autism nearly as badly as 61.
>>47547573
I hope you like vehicle-scale weapons used against you. You're asking for it.
>>47547573
So what happens if you want to go anywhere?
>>47547469
More I'm just criticizing your assumption you have 1000 points to spend on skills. You're still required to spend 700, but your particular formula is still over half that. A hacker might also want some other skills besides just "Do computer hacking real well". You haven't accounted for Interfacing at all, for instance, which is what you use when a test is required to use a computer system you're already in.
You can spend the 300 remaining on skills, and this is encouraged to round out, but you also maybe want to spend it on other things too. Like Moxie. Or useful traits. Or morphs. Or cash, so you can buy equipment to start with, since we haven't accounted for any rep or Networking skills.
>>47547667
See above about buying gear at start. Rep is pretty cheap but you still have to devote some points to it and Networking to actually utilize it. You're also going to burn rep fast if you use it to obtain everything.
>>47547729
>but your particular formula is still over half that.
Only if you assume that I'm staying at base attribute scores of 15 and not raising the ones that would actually be important to a character with this design concept.
>ou haven't accounted for Interfacing at all, for instance, which is what you use when a test is required to use a computer system you're already in.
Yes I did. I said: Programming, Academics: Computer Science, Academics: Cryptography, Hardware: Electronics, Hardware: Robotics, Hardware: Implants, Infosec, and Interfacing
>A hacker might also want some other skills besides just "Do computer hacking real well".
Sure, like shoot a gun competently, or get 40 in Fray or Perception which doesn't cost very much.
>Like Moxie. Or useful traits. Or morphs. Or cash, so you can buy equipment to start with, since we haven't accounted for any rep or Networking skills.
Like I said, a menton isn't that expensive, and neither are networking skills or rep.
Anyone can be poor. Even wizard hackers. I could just try to rob people through the mesh the first session if I really needed money that bad anyway.
>>47547667
i have run into vehicle scale weapons already, direct action doesnt like dragons - who knew. but i have 120 dur and dank pilot so its not too bad
>>47547689
i have hibernation, oxygen reserve, enhanced respiration, vacuum sealing, and a plasma rocket for long hauls
>>47547831
>i have hibernation, oxygen reserve, enhanced respiration, vacuum sealing, and a plasma rocket for long hauls
What if you need to be somewhere this year?
>>47547831
I think a vehicle-grade HEAP does 18d10+72 if I'm interpreting the wording right.
>>47547613
>Where does it say that?
Where it says you can buy exploit packages from people, or develop them, and it says nowhere that they are specific to X.
It doesn't even mention specificity besides application in the software section, and it's put in the Gear section which is generally full of multipurpose shit.
>Not if they're expecting quantum computers to be used against it.
Fair enough since the game has unlimited bandwidth and can send 2mb keys constantly without issue.
>Quantum computers in the game don't use them.
I don't know where it says this, but okay. Makes enough sense.
>>47547928
>Where it says you can buy exploit packages from Do you mean >>47546687? Because that most certainly doesn't say what you're claiming
>>47547991
>a hacker with the do-it-yourself ethic is likely going to want to design their own personalized applications, based on their playbook of closely guarded intrusion/counterintrusion methods
>modifying their own personal arsenals
Pay close attention to the words "playbook" and "arsenal."
Do you require every football coach to have a playbook against every team, or just a standard one that they use with their own customized plays?
"Every exploit must be designed for a single system and researched extensively" is just not supported by the book. It's a houserule, and that's fine, but it's still a houserule.
>>47547862
i ego-cast and ship my body like a normal person
>>47547912
good thing i haven't been hit by one of those yet, again we started this group yeterday
>>47547815
>rob people
An infomorph hacker in a ghostrider with a melee-competent mind-raping Async are a godly combo for stealing people's everything. For synthmorphs, the hacker is all that is needed, but an async can steal codes directly from the poor shmuck's head while the hacker covers everything up and transfers all of the assets into Extropian bank accounts.
>>47547831
Saving up for respirocytes as well?
>>47548397
repirocytes are nice
>>47548397
I really wanted to like Asyncs since I have an autistic fixation on psionic powers in games, but they're just so underwhelming in EP. You have to damage yourself, get right up next to someone who is going to stab you in your fucking face, and then touch them to do... less damage than if you just shot them with a pistol at that range.
I think it would be better if a few changes were made:
Remove the self damaging bit
Make most powers besides mind rape ranged, and increase the range to 15-20m before you start getting penalties
Make a new class in-between Epsilon and Gamma that has much more powerful abilities. These powers would damage you because of how powerful they are. Enough damage that even the heartiest of morphs will likely be incapacitated if they use more than 2-3 of these in a short (3-4 day) period.
Mindrape and Chi-sleight self-buffs are cool though.
Are penal troops still used in 10AF?
>>47548737
Why would they be? Bots would outperform them without anyone whining about 'crimes against humanity'.
>>47548726
Oh and the whole "start with 2-3 mental disorders" shit is beyond annoying unless you cheese your way around it, like taking "mute from trauma" and exclusively using taccomms and telepathy power to communicate with people, or OCD with some relatively negligible fixation or tic.
The idea of a schizophrenic Async is interesting but ultimately unplayable unless you allow the person playing it to start with antipsychotic medications that DON'T interfere with the psi abilities.
>>47548845
>ultimately unplayable
Stop being a whiny little munchkin bitch
>>47548845
>Has a player who took Schizophrenia as one of his async disorders
What you call unplayable, I call "entertaining".
>>47548935
>Stop being a whiny little munchkin bitch
I'm not being a munchkin. I'm being someone who has experienced being around untreated schizophrenic people in real life and they are incapable of doing the shit this game requires you to do. Going to go dismantle some TITAN tech X-threat with a schizophrenic Async? No fucking way he's going to do anything useful. Might even attack his team members because PSYCHOSIS is a big fucking problem.
Regardless of the mission, a true-to-life untreated schizophrenic is unusable. Comparable to your character breaking the maximum trauma threshold or whatever and the game just saying "you're gone forever." Until that schizo gets treatment, he is probably "gone forever."
If you're talking about my comments on psi in general, please explain how they aren't underwhelming and generally shit compared to just melting people with lasers or chain railguns. Yeah, Grok is pretty great, but the rest are just situationally useful or strictly inferior to something else with many drawbacks.
>>47549033
>just situationally useful
>Everything must be useful at all times
What a munchkin bitch.
>>47549033
>Regardless of the mission, a true-to-life untreated schizophrenic is unusable.
You do realize there are different degrees of schizophrenia, right? My ex's brother was schizophrenic and refused treatment and he was mostly functional.
>>47549160
Tell me what the advantage to being Async is then? Besides a few sleights, there are people who can do what you do, even the mindrape stealing encryption keys type thing, better, faster, and with no drawbacks. You can't out damage even a shit tier weapon with your offensive sleights. You can't incapacitate people. You can't do much of anything that's really WORTH the drawbacks of hurting yourself every time you use your powers AND having debilitating disorders AND being more prone to trauma.
Seriously, what are the advantages? Grok? Mindlink? Ego Sense? Is that it?
>>47549228
>You do realize there are different degrees of schizophrenia, right?
I know, but it gets worse over time. Trauma, which is common in this game, would expedite that worsening on a massive level. You could go from "mostly functional" to "needs to be in a psychiatric ward to be taken care of" very quickly depending on how much and what kind of trauma you experienced as a schizophrenic.
>>47549259
>Seriously, what are the advantages?
fun
>Trauma, which is common in this game, would expedite that worsening on a massive level.
You're assuming that the person in question is predisposed to mental illness rather than having it induced solely by trauma
Also, muses treat this sort of thing.
https://eclipse-phase.wikispaces.com/Maximizing+Your+Muse
>>47549325
>You're assuming that the person in question is predisposed to mental illness rather than having it induced solely by trauma
No, I'm telling you that schizophrenics exposed to severe trauma like, say, seeing your team mate get turned into pink mist by femtobots, will be MUCH worse for them than for an NT person.
>The most important skill your muse has is Academics: Psychology, which means it can act as a therapist to heal stress.
This won't really help with schizophrenia. Even places that require you to see a therapist/psychologist to see a psychiatrist don't make people experiencing psychosis fulfill that requirement. Psychosis isn't treatable by psychology, and trauma would probably set off a psychotic episode that could last days, weeks, etc.
If you downplay the effects of schizo and what kind of things could happen, then by all means go ahead, but really they should be useless on any mission that could possibly result in trauma or extreme stress. A psychotic Async is going to be a problem even if they're not very powerful.
>>47549437
>100 years with no advancements in psychological care
kay
>>47549519
>kay
>disease characterized by deformations in the brain and neurotransmitter issues
>treatable by psychological care
Le no
Schizophrenia isn't anxiety. You can't brainwash yourself into making your brain stop being physically wrong.
>>47549565
Isn't that what psychosurgury is for?
>>47549680
>Isn't that what psychosurgury is for?
As far as I understand it, psychosurgery in this game is the literal rewiring of the brain. This would fix the malformed brain structures that result in schizophrenia.
So yes, but psychosurgery seems like it's not very reliable unless you find a skilled psychosurgeon.
Also if you fuck up then the schizo experiences even more stress and is even worse off. It's a dangerous game.
>>47549565
>What's resleeving?
>>47549752
Isn't why they do it on a fork and observer in x60 simulspace first?
>>47549756
To my unerstanding of it, resleeving remakes the neuron connections.
>>47549756
Shit isn't that easy, "munchkin." The game implies that the disorder is written into the neural mapping associated with your ego. Ever morph you resleeve into will have their brain rewritten to give you schizophrenia, and I guess the process is similar in cyberbrain's via brain emulation.
>>47549770
>Isn't why they do it on a fork and observer in x60 simulspace first?
Yeah, but what's your WIL going to be? 10, 15 maybe? Surgeon has to be pretty skilled to make it reliably effective.
>>47549851
Oh shit nevermind I read that wrong. Psychosurgery is effective on people without high WIL scores. I'm retarded.
>>47549819
>>47549851
Yeah, so those neurotransmitter issues? Gone. That's half your problem already. Genetic components? Also gone.
Read about hyperbrights and tell me that your morph has nothing to do with brain function.
>>47549898
>Yeah, so those neurotransmitter issues? Gone. That's half your problem already. Genetic components? Also gone.
No, they're not. The nanobots REBUILD the deformed structures responsible for the neurotransmitter issues and everything else.
Hyperbrights, Mentons, Fausts, etc all have an effect on brain function and limits, but they don't just remove everything that's wrong with you.
>>47549939
>structures responsible for the neurotransmitter issues
>because clearly that's entirely a structural issue
It's now clear that you learned all of this from a pamphlet.
>but they don't just remove everything that's wrong with you.
Quit making shit up. No one said that. Genefixing just makes all of this stuff more manageable and means it's not gong to happen without stress.
>>47549999
>It's now clear that you learned all of this from a pamphlet.
Are you stupid as shit or what? Schizophrenia is a structural issue. Can outside events have issues on your neurotransmitter levels? Yes, of course. We can treat those diseases with therapy. Sometimes those neurotransmitter issues are based almost entirely on structural issues though, and that's when therapy is only partially effective.
Schizophrenia has MUCH more going on than just dopamine and serotonin issues. Certain structures in the brain of schizophrenics are reduced in size or enlarged, for example, that has effects beyond neurotransmitter imbalances.
>>47549999
>Quit making shit up. No one said that. Genefixing just makes all of this stuff more manageable and means it's not gong to happen without stress.
Also yes, he did say that. He thinks resleeving into a new brain will just remove the malformed structures and chemical issues and that's wrong.
If you have schizophrenia then the genetics that predisposed you to it have already done their job. You can't genefix it away anymore. It's written into your ego and it will be copied EVERY TIME until you remove it.
If resleeving fixed schizophrenia then you would also lose all your memories, your personality, everything about you, because it's just slapping a consciousness with your label on it into a morph with an entirely different brain structure. You can't have your own memories and personalities without the distinct and unique neural pathways associated with YOU.
>>47550044
Neurotransmitter problems are not a structural issue and schizophrenia is not entirely a structural issue. As such, having basic biomods is going to dramatically improve manageability.
>>47550125
You can have addiction as a morph trait
>>47550145
>Neurotransmitter problems are not a structural issue
Yes, they are, and I'm tired of explaining this people so I'm just going to copy paste the shit from the last time I had this argument with someone:
depression
https://www.karger.com/Article/Abstract/284698
http://www.jneurosci.org/content/18/18/7394.full
>Enhanced radioligand binding of an agonist to inhibitory serotonin-1A autoreceptors in the human DR provides pharmacological evidence to support the hypothesis of diminished activity of serotonin neurons in suicide victims with major depression
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322397004848
anxiety
http://psycnet.apa.org/psycinfo/1998-11070-001
>Serotonergic pathways may play a role in social anxiety disorder, as shown by the clinical effectiveness of selective serotonin reuptake inhibitors
>Dopaminergic function and striatal dopamine uptake appear to be reduced in social anxiety disorder.
http://www.sciencedirect.com/science/article/pii/S0006322306007025
>schizophrenia is not entirely a structural issue
Before it manifests? Yes. After? It is entirely structural. Genetics MEANS structural.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Causes_of_schizophrenia#Genetic_candidates
>>47550145
>You can have addiction as a morph trait
I don't really know how they explain away this one considering that physical dependence is still largely based in the brain.
>>47550239
>Genetics MEANS structural.
No, it doesn't. chemical pathways are also heavily influenced by genetics.
>>47550239
Does resleeving do the entire brain or only the grey matter?
>>47550239
>I don't really know how they explain away this one considering that physical dependence is still largely based in the brain.
It's entirely possible to be psychologically addicted to a substance that isn't physically addictive in and of itself. They're so used to being under the influence that the idea of going without terrifies them. Marijuana, for example, isn't physically addictive, but I've known people who literally cannot function if they're not at least a little high. That's an ego addiction.
>>47550332
Does an octopus even have grey matter?
>>47550331
>chemical pathways are also heavily influenced by genetics.
HOW THE FUCK DO YOU THINK THOSE CHEMICAL PATHWAYS ARE FORMED??? GENETICS ARE THE BLUEPRINT FOR DEFECTIVE STRUCTURES THAT RESULT IN DEFECTIVE CHEMICAL PATHWAYS. Fucking christ man. Do you think genetics are just some magic force that works without having a physical basis?
>>47550332
>Does resleeving do the entire brain or only the grey matter?
It takes the brain inside the morph already and floods it with nanobots that "rewire" the neural pathways in the morph's brain to match your Ego's own neural map, among other more complicated things like memory storage and transfer.
>>47550350
>It's entirely possible to be psychologically addicted to a substance
I guess this makes sense if the previous owner of the morph had been heavily using drugs, but psychologically addicted still makes me think that it shouldn't happen unless your Ego was also psychologically addicted to something. It's not like the muscles or other parts of the body are dependent on the drug, or the testes shut down because the previous owner was a roider. Being addicted to something physically (as in an opiate addiction) or psychologically (as in weed) has to happen in the brain, and the rewiring during resleeving SHOULD remove that unless you have that issue yourself.
>>47550450
Oh, so by structure you meant chemical composition and gene expression as well, rendering the word so broad as to be meaningless?
Then sure, it's a structural problem. Psychosurgery and resleeving don't change the DNA though, so your argument is invalid.
>>47550502
Here's how it works in normal, 21st century humans:
>be born with shit genes
>genes cause certain structures to develop
>these structures are fucked, because shit genes
>these fucked structures cause problems, like schizophrenia
Yes, gene expression plays a part besides developing those structures and keeping them intact. You could say that genetics is the root cause of it, sure, but the structures that result from those genetics (defective NMDA receptors, etc) are the actual mechanism by which schizophrenia operates.
Chemical composition is solely a function of those structures, which is a function of gene expression, which is a function of genetics.
>Psychosurgery and resleeving don't change the DNA though, so your argument is invalid.
No, they don't. Psychosurgery removes the broken structures and replaces them with the correct ones, and resleeving just rewrites your brain into another. Should there be conflicts because of better DNA? Probably. I'd imagine the structures would still function improperly, but not as improperly as in someone without perfect DNA.
The DNA isn't going to just fix the broken structures. It's far, far too late for that to happen. The DNA will result in different chemical/protein levels that may improve the functioning of the person with the disease, but shit like enlarged or diminished parts of the brain won't just be fixed.
If you want to rule in your game that resleeving fixes all disorders because of super DNA then go ahead.
>>47546743
Looking at the way her feet are set up, do you bother with any sort of footwear at all or is it pointless? Do you suppose there are desinger foot gloves made by Gucchi and Prada?
>>47550647
Ongoing gene expression is important, which you would know if you had taken even high school level biology from a decent school. If your genetics suddenly change, chemical pathways will change too.
>the structures that result from those genetics (defective NMDA receptors, etc)
Even if those receptors did stick around forever (far from it), they still wouldn't be something that gets carried over when resleeving.
>The DNA isn't going to just fix the broken structures
I still can't believe that you're calling individual proteins structures when talking about the brain as a whole, but the brain is constantly rebuilding itself and improved genetics will result in fairly rapid improvement in neural pathways.
>If you want to rule in your game that resleeving fixes all disorders because of super DNA then go ahead.
Once again, neither I nor anyone else said that. Only that basic biomods and genefixing mean that your claims about debilitating psychoses are don't fully carry over into EP. I suspect you don't care about that though because it doesn't fit your narrative.
>>47550798
>Only that basic biomods and genefixing mean that your claims about debilitating psychoses are don't fully carry over into EP
Once again, you're wrong, and even Posthuman says you're wrong. Houserule as you wish, though.
>Ongoing gene expression is important
Which I acknowledged.
>Even if those receptors did stick around forever (far from it), they still wouldn't be something that gets carried over when resleeving.
Yes they fucking would for the millionth god damn time. If your brain is uploaded while you have malformed structures, then those malformed structures are going to be wired into the new morph's brain, because that's how the book says it fucking works. It's an exact copy of your brain at the time of uploading.
>but the brain is constantly rebuilding itself and improved genetics will result in fairly rapid improvement in neural pathways.
It won't rebuild entire structures regardless of gene expression. That's not how it works. It won't fix the altered neural circuits associated with schizophrenia. It won't fix the enlarged lateral ventricles or the shrinkage of the frontal cortex and temporal lobes. Even treating the disease with antipsychotics that combat the fucked up structures responsible for schizophrenia DON'T FIX THE REDUCTION IN BRAIN VOLUME. Better genes won't fix that either. Only a complete rewiring could possibly hope to do that, which is why you need psychosurgery to get rid of it.
>>47550887
>You're wrong because of this sidebar which says that schizophrenics are more functional that I described
>Which I acknowledged.
You mentioned it but everything else you said ignored it.
>Proteins are wired in
You don't even understand how brain metaphors work. The axons and dendrites are the wires.
Leaving that aside, uploading doesn't create a perfect copy of the brain. Evidence: octomorphs, attribute bonuses, and synthmorphs.
>It won't rebuild entire structures regardless of gene expression.
Proteins are replaced quite regularly. Please take a biology class.
>>47550779
>Looking at the way her feet are set up, do you bother with any sort of footwear at all or is it pointless?
The sole purpose of footwear is to reduce/eliminate wear and tear on the foot itself. No matter how weird the foot is, wear and tear is something you want to mitigate.
Even horses get shoes. I promise you that every possible foot would get a similar treatment (and I bet many walker synthmorphs use replaceable or replenishable rubber soles for every surface contact point).
>>47551002
>Proteins are replaced quite regularly. Please take a biology class.
And yet you ignore the part where I tell you that "fixing" the shit responsible for broken structures and reduced brain volume does not actually result in rebuilding those structures.
>>47551002
>Leaving that aside, uploading doesn't create a perfect copy of the brain.
Yes it does. Evidence: The fucking rulebook.
>You don't even understand how brain metaphors work. The axons and dendrites are the wires.
What the fuck are you even talking about? Schizophrenia has altered neural circuits. Better genes won't suddenly just rewrite those into the correct way. Protein expression isn't going to fix the broken structures like I already said.
>You mentioned it but everything else you said ignored it.
I didn't ignore it. I said that better genes might result in better gene expression which might result in a more functional schizophrenic than one without better gene expression. It won't completely rid you of the disease and it won't make it any less debilitating.
>You're wrong because of this sidebar which says that schizophrenics are more functional that I described
Yes, "total break from reality" sounds very different and much more functional than I described. "difficulty communicating coherently" (glossolalia/word salad) is definitely a more functional feature than I described. "schizophrenic characters are only marginally functional and only for short periods of time" is completely and totally different than what I described.
You don't understand the game (can't read excerpts from the book)
You don't understand mental illness (chemical imbalances are not structural issues)
You don't understand the brain (gene expression will fix malformed structures)
Why are you even arguing?
>>47551108
>And yet you ignore the part where I tell you that "fixing" the shit responsible for broken structures and reduced brain volume does not actually result in rebuilding those structures.
You clearly aren't using the word structures consistently.
>Yes it does. Evidence: The fucking rulebook.
Restructuring neural structure and connections is not equivalent to reproducing the original brain on a molecular level.
>Schizophrenia has altered neural circuits. Better genes won't suddenly just rewrite those into the correct way. Protein expression isn't going to fix the broken structures like I already said.
Said circuits also function differently depending on gene expression.
>I didn't ignore it.
You did, because it affects how neurons work, not just how they get arranged.
>You don't understand mental illness (chemical imbalances are not structural issues)
I fucking said this to you and you insisted that neurotransmitter problems are structural in origin, so I changed my definition of structural for you, you stupid cunt.
>>47548845
Take mental disorders that you think are playable, then. The point is that to have physics defying powers, you can't be right in the head. The game at least tries to be reasonably hard sci-fi where aliens or post-singularity intelligences are involved. Do note that the two most important bits of the setting are the bit about the Human Cognome Project and the duality of the morph brain aspects and the ego itself.
From how long this conversation has gone on, one of your traits should be Mental Disorder (Autism). Also consider Mental Disorder (Anankastic Personality Disorder)
>>47551249
>Restructuring neural structure and connections is not equivalent to reproducing the original brain on a molecular level.
Are we playing semantics now? No, the original brain won't be reproduced, because that's impossible. Instead, the brain inside the morph is restructured and rewired according to the map in your Ego. It's basically the same thing, and it will transfer malformed structures responsible for disorders.
>Said circuits also function differently depending on gene expression.
Not really. That part of schizophrenia is similar to other neurodevelopmental disorders like motor issues, tics, autism, brain damage, etc which aren't fixed by gene expression. They're fixed by forcibly rewiring the circuits.
>You did, because it affects how neurons work, not just how they get arranged.
Only if the neurons get replaced, and neurogenesis in adults isn't an accepted theory yet.
You're probably going to say "well the neurons are getting replaced with new DNA in the morph" and yeah you're right. I don't know how they justify this.
>you insisted that neurotransmitter problems are structural in origin
Because they are.
So yes, maybe I'm wrong and a schizophrenic flat who resleeved into a exalt wouldn't have as many issues. The messed up neural circuits would still be there, and might be able to be fixed the same way people with brain damage learn to walk again, but psychosurgery is a much better option.
I think this conversation was originally about having to pick a disorder when choosing Psi as a trait. The implication seems to be that the restructuring the exsurgent virus does to the brain to give you Psi results in these disorders--not genetics. In that case, genetics is completely irrelevent and it IS a structural issue that can ONLY be fixed by psychosurgery.
Sorry for being wrong about some things in normal person schizo.
>>47551427
>Take mental disorders that you think are playable, then. The point is that to have physics defying powers, you can't be right in the head.
I get that. The point I was making way back there was that the physics defying powers you get from taking disorders are not good enough to warrant those disorders and the time you would waste getting psychosurgery to remove them. Psi is very underwhelming and has way too many drawbacks for what you get.
Cool flavor option, but very shitty mechanically.
>>47551506
Well, I mean, you say that, but Asyncs have some phenomenal freaky powers. Okay, so you can't go all Scanners on someone, but you have abilities to basically Mind Hack people in, you know, seconds rather than subjective weeks for Psychosurgery. And then you have basically unique abilities like Grok, Sense Infection, Eco-Empathy or Animal-Empathy, that kind of stuff.
Asyncs are weird, probably creepy savants. Their abilities supplement a build, but are not a build on their own.
>>47547093
This:>>47547371
More to the point, you never *get* a complementary skill bonus, the GM allows them. Always assume you don't have access to them until proven otherwise, especially in GM free internet discussions.
>>47547573
So, does the GM not use armor for military grade craft? Because cyberclaws (even the big 4d10 ones) and torches won't even threaten a Mars Buggy.
>>47548726
Psi is strong, but active psi is a waste. passive psi-chi is super strong, and makes a lot of characters much more potent. You're not really a space wizard, more of a supercomputer client using time on an ETI server. You're not supposed to be using them as strong weapons, psychic stab is basically a boot knife hidden in your brain.
>>47548845
Do the cheap thing and take emotion effecting disorders, and the emotion control sleight to ignore them.
>>47549259
Great Sleights: Infection Sense
Good sleights: Ambience Sense,
Downtime,
Emotion Control,
Filter (w/ generous GM),
Grok (situationally good, depends on the amount of weird shit, and you need a high COG),
Instinct,
Multitasking,
Pattern recognition (for data sifting, the languages part isn't good),
Predictive Boost,
Superior Kinesics (stacks with specialties for social-fu asyncs),
Deep Scan.
The rest are somewhere between ok, and don't bother with.
>>47552920
>you never *get* a complementary skill bonus, the GM allows them
Seems like only a shit GM wouldn't allow a high computer science skill to complement a programming test.
In fact I probably wouldn't want to play with a GM that wouldn't allow that except in rare circumstances. Not allowing multiple skills to affect circumstances is one thing, but just saying "no" because you want to make the challenge harder for no reason is bullshit.
To the guy who said "only one skill is allowed to be complementary"
Interpret this as you will. In Transhuman, too.
sage'd because I keep samefagging.
>>47553140
>A character with a supporting Knowledge skills may also sometimes count towards a Teamwork bonus.
That's a weird statement, because, IIRC, RAW, teamwork bonuses don't require a relevant skill. I really feel that a lot of the advice was based on how some people play the game, and not on how the rule works. Jamming seeker rounds also falls into this category.
>>47552920
And if you're a dedicated Async, Potent Mind turns Psi Stab into a boot sword that the only way to get rid of would be to remove your arms and legs for 5 CP. Meshes good with Zoosemiotics.
Not that that's optimal either, but it's a thing.
What is you guys opinion on psi? more specifically what is your opinion on asyncs? are they too much of a liability, and what do you think is the true origin of the watts mecloid strain? one of my players plays an async with almost every sleight, which has come in handy but he is proven to be a horror magnet. what are your experience with asyncs
Is there any way to play an AGI character that isn't stupid or boring?
>>47553822
define
>>47553822
you have to play them as distinctly non-human and usually fixated on something that gives them pleasure like orgasms for humans, so it really depends on the campaign.
you could play a pilot agi that cums in his virtual pants every time he makes ridiculous maneuvers through dangerous flight spaces, even going so far as to jam aircraft and fuck around in them just for fun.
i don't know what you consider boring though.
>>47553841
>>47553887
Anything that's just a human in a suit or a wooden plank is boring.
Anything that's cutesy acting is stupid.
>>47553727
>And if you're a dedicated Async, Potent Mind turns Psi Stab into a boot sword that the only way to get rid of would be to remove your arms and legs for 5 CP.
Better than a bootsword. It's a powerful weapon that penetrates armor and only requires you to touch, not strike, your opponent.
Honestly, though, I think it's still a poor use of async abilities. Subliminal is resisted by will, and the opponent only gets a bonus if you say something immediately life-threatening or that goes against their beliefs. "Take a nap" goes against no ethical system, and makes for an extremely subtle way to take out opposition.
>>47553925
dont know what a wooden plank is, although my next character is going to be plank from ed edd and eddy
cutesy can be good, dont be prejudice of other peoples fun you jovian. thin characters are no fun but thats because there is no thought behind them.
that being said i would say that an agi who specializes into a field of tech is almost always awesome, especially if that field is programming. with a little spice you can be a wizard
>>47553822
>Is there any way to play an AGI character that isn't stupid or boring?
Mine is essentially GLaDOS without the murderous desires. It loves to learn and experience new things, and seeks out knowledge (often to the group's chagrin).
I do enjoy playing its naivete for laughs. It had a sort-of romance with one of the other PCs at one point. She was a hedonist neo-bonobo who tried to seduce him, and he agreed under the condition that he be allowed to have sex with her dog too. When she freaked out at the statement, he said "Why did you respond uncomfortably to the thought of a computer program copulating with your dog, but not at the thought of copulating with a computer program yourself? Is the dog diseased? Shall we scan it for infection before or after we partake in coitus?"
>>47554004
>dont know what a wooden plank is
Sorry. I misspoke. I meant something as emotionless as an inanimate object, like the robot from Lost in Space.
>that being said i would say that an agi who specializes into a field of tech is almost always awesome
Is it, though? Aren't the walking toolkits on TV boring plot devices so that the human characters have their interesting love triangles and stuff?
My players for some reason decided that they are badasses and tried to act tough and took up a "clear a gang HQ" mission and said things "it'll be easy, they're just some bandits and we are experienced".
So I laid out a map and the encounter began. Turns out that when full-auto weapons exist, the enemy knows that you are here and you are not here to talk, has a defensive position and superior numbers, and your only advantage is stealth and surprise, not even knowledge of CQC, going through the front door without a plan isn't really easy. So is going through the back door without a plan. So is acting without proper gear for an assault or not making sure the room you are going to leave is clear.
The whole party is fucking terrified of gunfights now and only does social stuff, not even "steal shit" missions. How do I show them that it's not that dangerous if you are prepared?
>>47554250
Perform psychosurgery on your players in x60 time-accelerated simulspace to deprogram the trauma you put into them.
For a real answer, have them take the role of defenders in a surprise ambush by their enemiesactually a training exercise set up by their employers
>>47554250
Put them in a scenario where they know they can't escape, but they have time to prepare. For example, the gang from before remembers them, and sends a team of killers after them during one of their social missions. A contact of one of the party members sent the PCs a warning, so they have time to get ready. If they run, enough socialites will die in the chaos of the raid that the players names and reputations will be tarnished, since it was their mess that spilled into the event. The players must fight a holding action to defend the guests until security arrives in force. If they pull it off right, the party could use their heroic defense to get valuable concessions or information from one of the VIPs they were there to see.
>>47554671
Optional twist: One of the guests at the event is an information broker with a lead on the cortical stack of a witness that could help take down one of the gang's leaders, and damage the loyalty of many of their subordinates.Something like a forensically reliable first-hand XP account of crimes during the Fall. While the gang killers are ostensibly here after the players, that's mostly a mask to cover the "accidental" killing of the information broker.
>>47543675
Intercept his farcast, place him in a simulation of an empty space station, then alter his memories so that he thinks his commander gave him orders to guard the big red button and make absolutely sure nobody pushes it.
Forget about the simulation and leave him there forever.
>>47553788
>What is you guys opinion on psi?
I think it's fine the way it is. The one improvement I'd make is to allow more of the active powers to work on synthetic foes.
>more specifically what is your opinion on asyncs? are they too much of a liability
They're the only way to reliably sense exsurgent infections. Even the Argonaut device described in the Firewall book doesn't work as well. There's a trait you can take to negate the async vulnerability to infection. With a high Willpower score (which most asyncs will have since it's the aptitude governing psi power use) and the Emotion Control sleight the mandatory mental disorders don't really sting as much as they would on a normal character.
>what do you think is the true origin of the watts mecloid strain?
The ETI created it, same as all other strains of the exsurgent virus.
>what are your experience with asyncs
My first character was one, and one of my players gives all his characters the virus.
>>47554250
Accept that your players don't find tactical combat as fun or interesting as you do.
>>47554869
>Accept that your players don't find tactical combat as fun or interesting as you do.
Might as well start playing D&D at this point.
>>47554869
>trusting an Exsurgent to detect Exsurgents for you
If that's your "reliable" I'd hate to see your idea of "compromised".
>>47555000
D&D is a tactical combat game. Nice double trips though.
>>47555095
>trusting a transhuman to detect transhumans
>trusting a terrorist conspiracy to track down terrorist conspiracies
>trusting a gun to win a gunfight
etc
>>47552964
>Seems like only a shit GM wouldn't allow a high computer science skill to complement a programming test.
Depends on whether everyone involved realizes what computer science is, as it definitely shouldn't give bonuses to code management, for instance.
is it feasible to be part of firewall if your character is a TITAN tech enthusiast/singularity seeker
>>47555342
Is it feasible to play a member of ISIS in a militarily focussed Terror Network game?
>>47555342
Yeah, as long as you're in a liberal server
>>47555360
Clearly yes
>>47555360
>>47555365
yes or no would suffice
>>47555360
Sure, and his teammates are a DPRK spy and an Aum Shinrikyo member.
>>47555287
What the fuck are you on about? Computer Science definitely encompasses programming and should give a bonus. It is literally the study of computation and computation systems, of which algorithms and programming are included.
>muh pajeets think they're learning CS when all they can do is program meme from /g/dpt/
No
>>47555377
>>47555365
>>47555360
nvm i checked the firewall book and it says there are some members who are in favor of using xenoartifacts
t. isis
>>47543310
Is EP the lewdest 'normal' tabletop game?
>>47555416
>implying EP falls in the normal category
>>47555409
The Titanian Commonwealth uses alien artifacts to hold their flag up (Fixors), they're really not the same as singularity seeking or TITAN worship.
>>47555607
is wanting to use titan and xeno artifacts or learn from them either or those two things
>>47555618
No, though there are some people within Firewall who would disagree.
>>47555342
How would your character complete the following sentence?
"I would like to become a giant biomechanical space brain
>... when we as a species understand the risks and are not at risk of extinction from a single accident."
>... when the opportunity arises."
>>47555980
first one
>>47555607
>fly right above Saturn's rings
>stick fixor in the middle of a ring
>activate it
>watch it as all of the dust and rocks in that orbit hit it and go flying in every direction
>>47555980
The first condition has pretty much already been fulfilled, considering the efforts of the backup faction
So Transhuman says that you need like 5 skills to design nanofab blueprints, but the core book says you only need 2.
Which is correct?
>>47556191
Whichever your GM uses.Transhuman
>>47556133
They realized by the time Transhuman came around that people would abuse blueprint programming to make things too easy. This way limits what you can make to more manageable levels.
>>47556221
>>47556237
It's still kind of ridiculous. In order to make a single "kick-ass drill" they listed:
Academics: Engineering, Metallurgy, Physics, Nanotechnology
Programming: Nanofabrication
Profession: Drilling
That's fukken nuts.
They also made it seem like you have to hack 5 things in order to get blueprints or make a nanofab make your guns.
First you have to hack the blueprint database
Then you have to copy the blueprint
Then you have to hack into the nanofab itself
Then you have to hack the restriction mechanism
Then you have to hack the AI overseer
Then you have to sit there and watch to make sure the machine doesn't tell the spacecops you're making guns
How the fuck do they expect you to get any of the shit you need, besides the GM just saying "firewall provides," when they're making it this much of a pain in the ass?
>>47556277
Generally when people design things, they do it in groups. The groups are a lot smaller with all the ALI QA you can have cheaply, and you don't necessarily need all that stuff to make a functional drill.
You can also get blueprints legitimately, or use a legitimate CM, or use networking/credits to buy time on a black market CM.
Designing and hacking your way through it all solo is the hardest method. As it should be.
>>47556338
>want railgun
>choices are either pay a bapzillion credits or favors for both an unrestricted nanofab and the railgun blueprint and the ammo blueprint; pay a gazillion credits or favors for an unrestricted nanofab and then have high skill in physics, metallurgy, nanotech, engineering, programming, electronics, and armorer; acquire a restricted nanofab and hack 20 things to remove the restrictions, then use your stolen blueprint or design one; hope you can find a railgun on the blackmarket for 200% of the cost
I thought you weren't supposed to spend a lot of money on gear?
>>47556389
No you're not supposed to spend CP on gear because money is easy to get but your character is hard to improve
>>47556389
Also, you can get a lot of that stuff for free with favors
Also also, you can probably just buy the railgun. This isn't the UK in space.
>>47556415
Or australia.
>>47556415
>Also also, you can probably just buy the railgun.
The books make it seem like buying guns is literally impossible outside of scum barges or black markets.
Same with restricted/military implants that you'd have to design yourself.
>>47556415
>Also also, you can probably just buy the railgun.
Not on any hab that depends on a hull keeping atmosphere in, you can't. Any polity where lots of people could die from a single breach will ban railguns. Even anarchists and scum will soft ban it with a public "Dude, do you *really* need this? Think carefully about your answer".
>>47556426
It really doesn't. Scum barges and black markets are where you would go for a railgun if you wanted to make sure no one knew you had it, and there is the occasional space UK hab.
>>47556476
>and there is the occasional space UK hab.
No, I got the same impression >>47556450 did from it. Every space hab will ban railguns and anything with any armor piercing capabilities even if they aren't space UK tier. Inner systems will ban literally all guns.
Seems like your only option to get guns without resorting to criminals or doing it yourself is from crazy brinker arms dealers.
>>47556450
Hull breaches aren't actually that hard to patch as long as it's a small hole. The bigger concern is damage to wires and pipes and shit, and railguns won't be any worse for that.
>>47556493
Or get a beam weapon. Hand lasers are good to have as backups since you can't be disarmed of them without actually being disarmed.
>>47556502
>Hull breaches aren't actually that hard to patch as long as it's a small hole.
Railguns aren't going to make a "small hole" m8.
>>47556493
Space habs where your AP ammo will punch holes in the hull will ban them, you fucking moron.
>>47556450
>do you *really* need this
SHALL
>>47556568
>Space habs where your AP ammo will punch holes in the hull will ban them, you fucking moron.
Yeah so all you can get in most places are shitty handguns with low caliber ammunition, tasers, or maybe those microwave burner things.
If you want real guns, you know the kind you fight x-threats with, then you have to have a billion credits/favors or a character designed to make blueprints.
Or spend months going to the Oort cloud, finding an arms dealer, and then spend months going back.
Or "firewall gives you a gun"
>>47556548
Yeah, handheld railguns are going to make a hole too small to put your fist through. That's an easy patch job.
>>47556568
Just like how in cities guns are always banned because they penetrate walls that have people on the other side, right?
>>47553788
I've played pure psi before
It's actually absolutely fucking useless, first off you need 2 mental disorders just to take it, if you're actually role playing this is debilitating in and of itself. Next comes strain which means if you aren't constantly changing bodies you have constant crippling penalties from all the times you've used psi and fucked up.
Your huge Will means you won't be traumatised by anything which means you'll have no moxie 5 mins in if your GM uses stress properly(mine didn't thank god) because you'll have hardenings out the ass in no time.
Then you'll find you are constantly plot roaded, this is the worst offender because as soon as there's an investigation aspect to the plot you're going to be sidelined because every character will be a synth all of a sudden. Or you will be forced to be a synth, or both for good measure.
Psi combat is useless garbage there are hundreds of better ways to kill someone in this setting many of which are less detectable than trying to grab a struggling person for 30 seconds in the middle of the street.
Finally the rest of the party will resent you because you're a space wizard and they're not.
The best way to play psi IMO is just take the level 1 then hoard the passives, the passives are actually really good, unremovable and don't cost that much. They're not linked to a skill so you don't have to invest tons of points into the separate psi skills and thematically make way more sense than a lot of the active ones. The only downside is you can't stack them with implants to create obnoxious combinations like speed 4 multitasking math wiz hackers
>>47556649
>Then you'll find you are constantly plot roaded
Shit GMs are shit no matter what character you use
>Psi combat is useless garbage
Remember kids, combat is the only important thing in the game.
>>47556679
>Remember kids, combat is the only important thing in the game.
It's probably going to come up quite a bit.
If you're useless during combat then it sucks.
>>47556604
Or you spend the money/favors for a disguised blueprint. You know, it looks like a powered shaving kit, but it assembles into an SMG. That sort of thing. It'll be expensive, but you only need to buy the one and can print it anywhere.
>>47556693
Buy a gun
>>47556711
>Take all these penalties to have mental powers
>Fuck up and have to change bodies because this one is now broken
>Can't do shit for at least a day because lol derangement
>The powers suck ass except to do things you can already do with implants
>>47556725
>Fuck up and have to change bodies because this one is now broken
Not actually how strain works. That's really only going to help with genetic predispositions to stuff.
>The powers suck ass except to do things you can already do with implants
Implants can actually be pretty hard to get sometimes. You get stuck with a lot of shitty morphs.
>>47553788
>>47554869
>what do you think is the true origin of the watts mecloid strain?
I agree it has to be constructed for an ETI purpose, my guess is as a "reward strain" for quislings. You keep the same ego in charge, give them supernatural abilities to rise through the ranks and an inherent weakness to later methods of control. at least in the rules, that's the only actual disadvantage. but as a GM you're probably fucking up if their exposure didn't include some subtle passenger.
>>47556604
The nice thing about x-risks is that they often aren't that well armored. A torch or SMG with +damage bullets works pretty well on a lot of them. Railguns are a meme weapon DESU, they're generally not worth the thousands of extra credits.
Microwave agonizers are actually pretty good, so are laser pulsers. If you really need firepower, shredders are the cheapest way to get it, regardless of method. A black market shredder is like 2k credits.
If you want to win a firefight with superheavy infantry than they won't cut it, but that's generally not what Firewall is doing.
I think you're also seriously overcosting that kind of thing. Favors work really well for this kind of thing, especially if you have an extra identity.
>>47556804
It's probably just Haunting, but with a decade or longer incubation period. ETI second strike capability.
>>47556790
>roll doubles too high
>have a seizure and be useless
>hurt yourself on top of it
>try to use your powers
>hurt yourself
>roll doubles and have a seizure
>do anything with your cool powers
>hurt yourself
>roll doubles and have a seizure
>>47556015
Good enough.
>>47556848
>roll doubles too high
>have a seizure and be useless
You should probably understand something before you complain about it
>>47555416
the first NPCs I'm building are scumbornalpha forksin a relationship with one anotherwhose morphs are a Bruiser and a Neotenic.
so yeah it's potentially pretty lewdtheir names are Echo and Narcissus
>>47556970
>be async
>have seizure
>sometimes fall on your ass too
>>47556996
So you already know that you're complaining about something that will occur a few percent of the time?
It really seems like you want psi to be something that it isn't. It's not supposed to make you into a battlemage who kills people with his mind.
>>47556848
Soneone shoop Jensen's shades onto dubs guy.
>>47557055
>>It really seems like you want psi to be something that it isn't. It's not supposed to make you into a battlemage who kills people with his mind.
no i just want it to not suck ass and be a complete waste of CP and a headache all for flavor.
it doesn't have to turn you into a battlemage killing people with your mind, it just has to have benefits that outweigh the enormous drawbacks.
>>47557087
Right? Planting suggestions in people's minds, reading people's minds, preventing memory formation, implanting false memories, all a bunch of shit.
>>47557087
Having all of those abilities no matter what body you are in, including a lot of stuff that is downright impossible by other means. Do check out the psi revamped rules, which makes some of the powers much better and comparable to implant equivalents.
>>47557150
>suggestions in people's minds
while they stab you in the face because you have to touch them to do it
oh and you hurt yourself and have a seizure
>reading people's minds
don't need to hurt yourself and have a seizure or get stabbed in the face to do this.
>preventing memory formation
don't need to hurt yourself and have a seizure or get stabbed in the face to do this.
>implanting false memories
that they KNOW are false
oh and seizure hurt self stab face
and getting 2 mental disorders you have to spend time and rep/credits getting psychosurgery for.
>Do check out the psi revamped rules, which makes some of the powers much better and comparable to implant equivalents.
where are these
>>47557203
You know that there are non-combat situations in this game, right? You know that if you get touch sleight, you would be dumb not to invest in unarmed combat, right?
>>47557203
>while they stab you in the face because you have to touch them to do it
Where do you live that people get stabbed in the face if they try to touch someone?
>where are these
Sigh. In the OP.
>>47557203
http://eclipsephase.com/psi-revamped
It used to be in the OP.
>>47557231
>You know that there are non-combat situations in this game, right?
you know that the psi powers, except the one that can identify exsurgents because no one else can do that, are not unique and can be done by other people without having seizures or touching things, right?
>You know that if you get touch sleight, you would be dumb not to invest in unarmed combat, right?
you know that if the person succeeds even if you win that they know you fucked with them somehow, right?
>>47557235
>Where do you live that people get stabbed in the face if they try to touch someone?
if i thought someone was trying to drug me i think i'd be pretty upset.
>>47557273
this is 10x better than what's in the books currently. this is actually worth having seizures and being stabbed in the face.
only thing that i would change is strain from 1d10/2 to 1d10/5.
>>47557286
>are not unique and can be done by other people without having seizures or touching things, right?
False in many cases, in other cases doing them requires spending a lot of money or rep on a morph that you're often not going to get to keep
>you know that if the person succeeds even if you win that they know you fucked with them somehow, right?
First, against most targets they're probably going to fail that. Second, in many cases it doesn't matter if they know something strange happened. Third, they don't know what happened, only that something strange happened. They don't know who did it. They might suspect you if you're the only other person around, so avoid that situation. And even if they know it was you, going around stabbing people is generally frowned upon. As in almost no one would do it unless they felt their life was threatened. And even then, getting stabbed in the face isn't that big a deal in this game.
>>47557382
>only thing that i would change is strain from 1d10/2 to 1d10/5.
You've never even played the game. 1d10/2 is a good amount.
>>47557235
>Where do you live that people get stabbed in the face if they try to touch someone?
Sweden.
>>47557441
>1d10/2 is a good amount.
hurting yourself to do anything isn't a good amount. if it were up to me i would just remove the mechanic entirely and limit the amount of sleights you can use per day by a number if we're using the revamped rules. if it's book sleights then i would remove it and put no limit on sleight use because of how bad they are.
>False in many cases
one, specific case.
>requires spending a lot of money or rep
which comes easily and isn't a deterrent
>in many cases it doesn't matter if they know something strange happened.
oh yeah suspecting you've just been subjected to a basilisk hack after the strange looking guy touched you is COMPLETELY FINE and nothing is going to happen.
>>47557505
>hurting yourself to do anything isn't a good amount. if it were up to me i would just remove the mechanic entirely and limit the amount of sleights you can use per day by a number
First off, strain is not damage.
Second, yplease tell me you realize that the principle difference between those mechanics is that under the actual rules you can push more out by taking penalties, and the amount you can do per day isn't a fixed number.
>one, specific case.
No. In fact none of the four awesome things I mentioned are things you can do to someone sleeved in a biomorph except with psi.
>which comes easily and isn't a deterrent
Not so easily that it's unlimited, and now you can spend it on other stuff. Plus all the things you actually can't do any other way.
>oh yeah suspecting you've just been subjected to a basilisk hack
Almost no one knows those exist and they certainly aren't a go-to assumption
>after the strange looking guy touched you
Brush by when other people are around.
Can you honestly tell me that if you suddenly felt odd you would stab the nearest person, or the guy who just shook your hand? If so, you should probably seek professional help.
>>47557645
>First off, strain is not damage.
wew laddy. telling me i haven't played the game when you have no idea what you're talking about.
>under the actual rules you can push more out by taking penalties
which is dumb because pushing out more shit is still pushing shit
>No. In fact none of the four awesome things I mentioned are things you can do to someone sleeved in a biomorph except with psi.
the only thing you mentioned that can't be done by others without hurting themselves or having seizures is detecting exsurgents. everything else can be done easily simply be debilitating whoever you want to mind rape and having a psychosurgeon on your team.
>Not so easily that it's unlimited, and now you can spend it on other stuff.
better to spend it on that shit than to spend it on psychosurgery every other session because you contracted another disorder
or seizures
>Almost no one knows those exist and they certainly aren't a go-to assumption
wew laddy. telling me i haven't played the game when you have no idea what you're talking about.
blaming TITAN tech is definitely going to be a go-to assumption when the entire solar system is wary of AIs and the return of the TITANs and remnants of them. suddenly finding yourself under the effects of some strange technology after Async man touched you is going to set off these kinds of fears. personally i would have the affected person immediately call for emergency services if they knew they were affected.
>Brush by when other people are around.
i don't think it works like that. you actually have to touch their skin, and even if it didn't, people aren't so oblivious that they'd just ignore you bumping into them.
>Can you honestly tell me that if you suddenly felt odd you would stab the nearest person, or the guy who just shook your hand?
no but if i lived in a world where AIs killed 90% of my people and i had mesh implants and lifelogging software i would immediately call the police and hand over the recordings.
>>47557727
>people aren't so oblivious that they'd just ignore you bumping into them.
I take it you've never used a crowded subway at rush hour. And you're still not going to know that the two events are connected.
>immediately call the police and hand over the recordings.
Which would be fine, because all that happened is you felt funny
>>47557727
If they think they encountered a basilisk hack, wouldn't that mean they definitely don't think the async did it?
>>47557727
You do realize that psychosurgery is a week long task action which is done on infomorph a right? You're basically arguing that first aid is worthless because operating theaters exist.
>>47557962
Asyncs are the stuff of mesh conspiracy forums. The average civilian doesn't know jack about Asyncs besides the Lost being "Cognite'a crazy serial killer babies". The fact that they're an open secret among paranoid types and the intel community does not mean everyone knows what they are and how they function. There's a lot of rumors and bad info even in Firewall, never mind the average civvie.
>>47557886
>I take it you've never used a crowded subway at rush hour.
i have, and i take notice of everyone bumping into me.
> And you're still not going to know that the two events are connected.
what?
>other people touch me
>don't feel funny
>strange looking guy muttering to himself or looks dead inside or something else (assuming you're roleplaying the fucked up feeling Asyncs are supposed to have correctly) touches me
>feel funny
how would i not know unless i was completely oblivious?
>Which would be fine, because all that happened is you felt funny
if you touched me, it was probably a gamma-sleight, and if it was worth touching me then it was probably doing more than just making me feel funny unless you're using thought browse. mind rape and all the other sleights that you have to touch people for usually have effects the target can perceive, and thought browse is relatively useless unless you stay connected to me. a subliminal suggestion might function the way you're describing, though.
>>47557962
>If they think they encountered a basilisk hack, wouldn't that mean they definitely don't think the async did it?
what the guy meant when he said "most people don't know that exists" was that most people don't understand what it is besides something scary the titans used to fuck people up. async guy looks and acts funny already and is suspicious.
they're not going to discount him (nor will they know he's an async; just a creepy dude) because they know it's a way to spread the virus or that he's not an infected person already.
>>47557982
>what is time dilation simulspace
>what is "i don't have to hurt myself or risk seizure to achieve the same effect"
>>47557727
Basilisk hacks don't reputably exist, they're kind of like chemtrails, but real. Even fewer people even know about asyncs.
Touch attacks don't need to touch skin, and don't have to be performed with biological limbs. The psi rules are really weird.
>>47558029
>Basilisk hacks don't reputably exist, they're kind of like chemtrails, but real.
That describes like 3/4s of the things Firewall has to deal with in an average campaign.
>>47558029
basilisk hacks are not some super secret like the prometheans. people who know absolutely anything about the fall know what they're called, or know that the titans had something that could fuck people up and turn them into monsters just by touching them/showing them a picture/saying something.
suddenly feeling funny or feeling your mind being probed while a strange looking guy is maintaining contact with you would probably ignite some fear of the titans.
>>47558018
Even with the server farm that x60 dilation uses, that's still 2.8 hours vs less than a second. On top of that you need to get a fork somehow, which is probably a day or two of covert ops, which can go very wrong very easily, especially in a panopticon society.
But all that's easier than popping some meds and walking past someone right?
>>47558073
Stop posting and read the books, even if they haven't quite made their mind up themselves.
>>47558100
>Stop posting and read the books, even if they haven't quite made their mind up themselves.
>most people do not know if the basilisk hack is anything other than a legend
straight out of the books. people know they exist, just not that they aren't legends. titan and anti seed ai hysteria is real. people are afraid of titans returning. this is not a huge leap in logic at all.
>>47558086
>less than a second
>deep scan takes at least 3 seconds to get even a single piece of information
>have to remain in contact
>target isn't immobilized or impaired in any way and knows they are getting probed
>can scream for help or call the authorities
>has your DNA because you touched them
>has recordings of you
>have to stay connected to get more information and the target gets a chance to resist every single time
yeah it's the fucking best m8
>>47558086
>>47558018
Time Dilation in Psychosurgery also makes the opposed test harder AND increases Stress inflicted
>>47558138
The huge leap in logic happens when someone gets brushed by another person, and they assume that it's an audiovisual weapon which hits like a truck.
It's definitely better than planning a fork napping lmao, grabbing someone is way more socially acceptable than popping a stack. You don't need to kill anyone, and you're leaving way less evidence.
You're also assuming they know, which the average person has a 30% chance of passing the check at all.
The worst case scenario for a psi scan is way better than the worst case scenario for a forknapping
>>47558228
>they assume that it's an audiovisual weapon which hits like a truck.
except they don't know that it works like this.
>It's definitely better than planning a fork napping lmao, grabbing someone is way more socially acceptable than popping a stack. You don't need to kill anyone, and you're leaving way less evidence.
>The worst case scenario for a psi scan is way better than the worst case scenario for a forknapping
You might as well just bumrush the guy, taze him multiple times, and grab him and run away on a micro-craft because he know's you're deep scanning him regardless of whether he resists the scanning or not. he's going to scream. he's going to call the cops. he's going to fight back. he's going to cause a scene.
>You're also assuming they know, which the average person has a 30% chance of passing the check at all.
read nigga read
that 30% chance is only to resist the mind probe stealing the info. they know they're being probed 100% of the time unless they're unconscious, in which case you could just forknap and subject them to mindrape without hurting yourself.
>>47558073
>suddenly feeling funny or feeling your mind being probed while a strange looking guy is maintaining contact with you would probably ignite some fear of the titans.
If I suddenly felt funny I imagine I would be more likely to suspect that someone was steal my credit card number via my mesh insert
>>47558418
>Have funny feeling
>Scream and beat up guy who brushed by
>Call police
>Hand over recording of event
Guess who is getting arrested
>>47558489
more like
>weird looking guy comes up to me and grabs onto me and won't let go for like a minute
>feel my mind getting probed
>scream, fight back, call the police
>he runs away
>hand over recordings including XP
Guess who is getting arrested/dissected
>>47558292
>Momentarily feel funny
>TITANs are eating my brain!
>Scream and cry
>Attack some guy
Perhaps 1% of people are this both sufficiently paranoid and emotionally unstable enough to react this way
People get deja vu and similarly weird experiences sometimes. They pretty rapidly decide it was all in their head.
What is likely is that the strange experience might lead them to take special notice of that guy who brushed by, because coincidences stand out to people. Shit may also get real if you sleight the guy again and he recognizes you.
>>47558292
>that 30% chance is only to resist the mind probe stealing the info. they know they're being probed 100% of the time unless they're unconscious
That's one particular sleight. Almost all sleights have a very large chance of the target not having the slightest inkling.
>>47558516
>won't let go for like a minute
Most sleights just require a momentary touch
>hand over recordings including XP
XP reveals you got scared for no reason and he didn't do anything.
Incidentally, almost no one records full XP which includes emotional states and internal feelings
>he runs away
Probably because you went apeshit when be brushed by. The police will not find fleeing suspicious under those circumstances
Creeping someone out is not a crime. Beating someone up is.
>>47558838
>Almost all sleights have a very large chance of the target not having the slightest inkling.
>Most sleights just require a momentary touch
Name some useful ones that give you the desired result on a single touch without the target knowing what's happening.
>XP reveals you got scared for no reason and he didn't do anything.
Can you not read or what? The description of DEEP SCAN clearly says the subject knows their mind is getting probed, and information is getting stolen, but they don't know what. In no way would that be reduced to "got scared and he didn't do anything."
>Probably because you went apeshit when be brushed by
Name some useful ones like I said.
>>47543675
Mfw no one mentions a TASP
>>47558886
>Name some useful ones that give you the desired result on a single touch without the target knowing what's happening.
Alienation
Aphasic Touch
Cloud Memory
Drive Emotion
Implant Memory (sorta, they'll know it's not their memory but won't know how it got there)
Sense Block
Subliminal
>>47559089
>>Alienation
>The ego finds their body cumbersome, strange, and alien. Almost like they are a prisoner within it.
Welp I guess they'll know this one.
>>Aphasic Touch
>The target cannot speak, initiate mesh actions, or otherwise communicate or read
Welp I guess they'll know this one.
>>Cloud Memory
>will soon forget everything that occurred while this sleight was in effect
They won't know this one immediately, but they'll notice the gap in memory later.
>>Drive Emotion
Do I even need to explain how they'll know this one is happening
>>Implant Memory
Yep they'll know.
>>Sense Block
>disable one of the 5 senses
Welp I guess they'll know this one.
>>Subliminal
They'll probably remember doing something they wouldn't have otherwise done after the effect wears off.
So with the exception of Cloud Memory and Subliminal, every single one of those sleights alerts the target that you are doing something alien and strange to them. They know it's you, because suddenly not being able to see after some strange man bumps into them is not a hard connection to make. Unless you hit them with Aphasic Touch, they're going to call the cops the moment this happens. They'll call the cops after Aphasic Touch wears off if you hit them with that, but they'll also probably try to run the fuck away from you and look really strange trying to scream but not being able to produce sound.
All they do is hand over their XP and your DNA from touching them to the police and your life is made significantly harder.
So like I said: might as well just forknap 'em with all the trouble your psi shit is going to cause.
>>47558292
Calling the cops saying that someone is reading your mind isn't going to be that different in EP compared to now. Probably a good way to score some pharma though.
>>47559259
send XP with your call then.
Say someone is using alien tech on you and they'll come running.
>>47559241
Oh, so you were looking for sleights that don't actually do anything at all. My bad.
>>47559277
>Lab report on the XP recording came back. It says the assault perpetrator felt funny then got scared
>We had better catch the sick son of a bitch this guy beat up
>>47559345
>still can't read
(You)
>>47559241
>>>Drive Emotion
>Do I even need to explain how they'll know this one is happening
Yes
Is EP still getting new content after the CC release?
>>47559376
Seems pretty self explanatory to me.
>strange man touches you
>suddenly extremely fearful/angry/horny/sad/etc when you weren't before
>>47559373
Can't read what? Does an XP somehow magically tell the police that the guy submitting it didn't have a mental breakdown?
Hell, most lifeloggers only record sensory information anyway, so except for the sleight that blocks your senses that wouldn't reveal anything at all beyond irrational behavior by the target.
>>47559416
Every time I get angry, scared, or horny I always suspect that the CIA is making me feel that way with their mind rays
>>47559420
>>Can't read what? Does an XP somehow magically tell the police that the guy submitting it didn't have a mental breakdown?
Can't read descriptions of sleights apparently.
>completely normal emotional/thought/sensory responses
>strange man touches you
>loss of sight/extremely angry/find body alien/can't speak anymore/strange implanted memory that isn't your own/etc
>they just went crazy bro!
>>47559442
If you're just going to play the "I refuse to acknowledge context" game then go fuck yourself m8.
>>47559241
>your DNA from touching them to the police
Yeah, this isn't as valid a tactic as it is now. DNA chaffs are pretty cheap, and you're a sleeve away from new DNA and fingerprints.
>>47559464
assuming you weren't touched from out of site they also have your face, your gait, etc.
>>47559459
>loss of sight/extremely angry/find body alien/can't speak anymore/strange implanted memory
Yeah, I guess loss of sight would show up, though if you get touched from behind then you're pretty fucked there.
Sensory recordings won't tell you anything about the rest of those, and the ones that would show up on the most detailed XPs still wouldn't tell you that the guy didn't just have a mental breakdown.
>If you're just going to play the "I refuse to acknowledge context" game then go fuck yourself m8.
Fine
Every time I get angry/scared/horny *after someone touches me*, I assume the CIA is making me feel that way with their mind control rays.
>>47559522
>still playing the "I ignore context" game
Guy who lost his sight after being touched by strange man submits medical records and other documentation showing he had no reason to have a mental breakdown. The loss of sight was completely spontaneous and without explanation.
>though if you get touched from behind then you're pretty fucked there.
Except when the cops look at the spimes and see the strange guy come up and touch you.
Do I have to spell this out for you? Because I'm getting really tired of this.
Psi is garbage. Stop trying to defend it.
>>47559579
You have a very narrow definition of "useful". Not everyone has your level of autism.
>>47559603
>talks about others having autism
>literally incapable of understanding simple context
>>47559712
>literally does not consider that there can be more than one person replying to him on an anonymous image board
>>47559579
>Guy who lost his sight after being touched by strange man submits medical records and other documentation showing he had no reason to have a mental breakdown. The loss of sight was completely spontaneous and without explanation.
Okay. Leaving aside the fact that it's at least the next day at this point and the async is long gone, and there's a good chance that whatever else the Firewall team was doing has probably attracted police attention anyway, the police now decide among a few scenarios.The touch is a coincidence for most of them. Keep in mind that the guy's sight returned after a few minutes.
1) An implant malfunction occurred
2) Some of these records have been faked
3) Some weird mental break happened and that still isn't fully predictable
4) The guy who went blind has been infected with the exsurgent virus
5) The mental break was caused by something that happened recently
6) The async has weird alien technology or is an exsurgent or something
And this is the *most* suspicious sleight in this regard by a large margin
>Psi is garbage.
Do something else then, or at least shut up. Beyond thinking that expanded psi rules are good, not a single person has agreed with you.
>>47559712
>Not realizing you've been talking to multiple people
>>47559829
>>Not realizing you've been talking to multiple people
>Everyone in this thread is actually a fork of the same self-loathing, autistic async, arguing with his selves
>>47559829
>And this is the *most* suspicious sleight in this regard by a large margin
No, the most suspicious was the mind probe he was talking about earlier.
>1) An implant malfunction occurred
So examine the implants. If they're shitty knock offs then sure. If they're not then this doesn't make sense. Glitches don't just occur like that.
>2) Some of these records have been faked
Possible I guess if you assume the person is lying to you for no reason.
>3) Some weird mental break happened and that still isn't fully predictable
In a transhuman with no prior history of this happening to ANYONE? Yeah sure.
>4) The guy who went blind has been infected with the exsurgent virus
No one but Firewall and a few other secret societies will know what the exsurgent virus is.
>5) The mental break was caused by something that happened recently
So submit more lifelogs and a brain scan. Psychosis is easily detectable.
>6) The async has weird alien technology or is an exsurgent or something
Seems like this is the only one that makes any sense if you're a normal cop who has to deal with this.
>>47559924
>No, the most suspicious was the mind probe he was talking about earlier.
I meant from this list >>47559089
>Glitches don't just occur like that.
Non-reproducible computer bugs happen fairly frequently, and if it was caused by malware then the malware may have self-erased
>Possible I guess if you assume the person is lying to you for no reason.
False police reports are pretty common actually
>In a transhuman with no prior history of this happening to ANYONE? Yeah sure.
[citation needed]
>So submit more lifelogs and a brain scan. Psychosis is easily detectable.
Not necessarily based on lifelogs, which are not brain scans.
>No one but Firewall and a few other secret societies will know what the exsurgent virus is.
>The police will then decide the async is infected with the exsurgent virus
?
>>47559991
>clearly understands that I was talking about why his examples would not be a better explanation than the strange guy having alien tech or something
>goes down the list until he reads exsurgent
>loses all ability to comprehend what he's reading and thinks I'm suggesting the police will suddenly know about the exsurgent virus and asyncs
I'm done m8. I'm going to sleep. This is fucking annoying. Learn to fucking read.
>>47560040
Actually many of them would be much more likely than alien mind control rays.
>>47560040
Even if it was some alien technology there would be no evidence that the guy who bumped him did it
>go blind
>Call police instead of doctor
In non stupid news, EP is now offering their next set in the "El Destino" fiction, Termites in the Framework for standalone purchase. Judging by previous experience this is going to be the Opening Fiction for X-Risks, so that release should be soon.
And if anybody wants to pitch in and get it and share it (Or After the Fall), that'd be cool.
>>47560040
Before you go, consider this: a smart async would set up a more believable cover story before using a slight, just like a pickpocket would distract their target by bumping into them so they can safely steal their wallet.
>>47547573
Don't mind me, just chucking antimatter grenades at an exhuman existential threat
>>47559924
>Psychosis
I don't think that word means what you think it means
>>47555423
>>47555416
>>47556974
Has anyone written anysmutfor EP?
>>47562481
Oh my sweet summer child.
>>47562616
I'm not talking about lewd character questionnaires, I mean actual writefaggotry.
>>47562783
Well there's the porn list
>>47562783
Also, I think those questionnaires qualify as writefaggotry
>>47563174
I wonder if Jovian Waifufag is still around.
>>47556649
>pure psi
That's your fucking prolem. It's not "space magic that makes guns obsolete". It's the thing that allows you to have something extra without a megaton of implants and is always with you, at the cost of your mental health.
How do I capture that cyberpunk feel in my games? Right now, everything looks like either Delta Green in space or D&D with guns. Or a weird mix.
