Are you ready to play some SARMATIAN DEMONOLOGISTS?!
>Sarmation Demonologists
>Gay kissing
>666 trips
I tried really hard to understand the rules of this game, but I just can't.
Still waiting for those dratted rules.
>>47471707
I don't even have an appropriate reaction image.
>>47472001
Well, my almost triples friend, it's a John Wick game. You need to go into it with a different mindset. The same case was with Honor & Blood or Houses of the Blooded.
>>47472011
Check your BackerKit site. I didn't get an e-mail, but it was waiting there.
>>47471666
>>47472021
I have one.
>>47472031
>Well, my almost triples friend, it's a John Wick game. You need to go into it with a different mindset. The same case was with Honor & Blood or Houses of the Blooded.
Yeah, I mean I tried to make a character and couldn't follow the chargen rules.
>>47472051
Maybe a step-by-step chargen with an example would be good.
>>47472031
Thank you, found it.
>>47472031
So, did he really get rid of naval combat?
>>47472353
The old one, yes. This one feels a lot different, but close to normal combat with the heroes.
“Her Spirit Lives On…”
A Crippled Ship who takes a Hit has been sunk. The Crew’s only recourse at this point is to abandon her and save themselves.
If your Ship is sunk, she can sail again someday even if it’s with a new hull. As long as you can retrieve a meaningful memento from your ship and work it into the design of another (the distinct figurehead, the custom-made wheel, etc), you can bestow a new Ship with your old Ship’s Backgrounds and Adventures.
Only new Ships, who have no Adventures or Backgrounds of their own, can be used in this way.
Adventures you can get during gameplay, while Backgrounds are part of the ship history.
Shit. I'm at work for six more hours. Can someone who has it now go full spoilers on setting alterations and how schools and shit work now?
Origin - Vodacce
Vodacce Ships are built for the long haul: four masts, a huge hull. They are merchant vessels designed for sailing to distant lands. Vodacce Ships can carry 3 Cargo (rather than 2).
Background - Pirate Hunter
Your Ship was once used to hunt pirates. When your Brute Squads roll dice against pirates, their 10’s Explode.
Adventures - Feed the Sea with Ghosts
Defeat 5 Ships in naval combat. The first time each round your Ship fires her cannons at an enemy, that enemy Ship takes an additional Hit.
There seems to be some kind of Wealth system combined with your ship, trade and cargo.
Ah, I see this version of the Renaissance still has no Jews. Judging from Wick's comments about how this version of the America's will have neither slaves nor genocide, we're clearly looking ahead to something great and progressive!
>>47472811
But it does have a black knight in Elaine's court! Can you smell the equality?
>>47471666
No, I remember how overhyped the original was and once you actually went into the corebooks it turned out that only two areas were decently written and they hardly saw any support from the rest of the stuff at all (mechanics were also a lot worse than fans pretend), what's worse any actual seafaring was pure shit.
Some LGBT-panderng isn't going to improve on that.
>a fantasy setting isn't a complete historical recreation of real life
NOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOOO
>>47472811
>muh jews
As always Americans can't stop forcing their fetishes. Wick can't stop himself from pushing in black knights and you can't stop trying to push in a totally irrelevant minority into a period of history where they were even more irrelevant.
>>47472904
>Jews
>Irrelevant during the Renaissance
>>47472979
Especially weird when you consider that he added the Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth. The term "Jewish European Golden Age" normally refers to 12th century Spain, but around the 15th-17th century, that's pretty much what happened in Poland. Persecution was at an all time law and with the new focus on education and commerce, the Jews amassed A LOT of power. It never got to how it was in Spain (where they'd be highly sought after as advisors to kings and what have you), but I agree they're an odd thing to leave out if you're going to make your not!Europe so detailed otherwise. They certainly have a fucklot more to do with it than the Vikings and the Irish Wick's so in love with.
>>47472863
This is going to be the "Rokugan isn't Japan" dance all over again, isn't it? It's a fantasy world when Wick fucks the history up, and it's an alternate Japan when he feels like patting himself on the back for the accuracy?
>>47472979
Yes, utterly and completely.
In fact their influence prior to industrial times is negligible, not counting their heretical offshoots, which is why it's always so jarring when Anglos try to shove them into every discussion.
The Renaissance is a select group of European countries and the learned artisans among their native populations, the Dutch, Italians, English, Portugeuse, etc. Not a minority of outsiders that Americans are indoctrinated to think are responsible for intellectual traditions they had little to no influence on.
>>47472811
>>47472841
>>47472904
>>47472979
>>47473026
I still need a citation on this, but I heard someone saying they once saw John Wick himself saying that even if he didn't consciously decide not to include them in order to avoid controversy (because a conspiracy of bioterrorist Renaissance feministas isn't going to cause that), "Thea doesn't need Jews because the Vaticine Church is as Jewish as it is Christian" or something along those lines. Apparently, a focus on scholarship in religion is a purely Jewish trait, and all of those priest scientists were flukes.
>>47473068
>holding the economies of entire medieval countries by the balls
>being owed such debts by kings that wars would start over them
>found in high ranking offices over the continent
>pretty much all the science that happened in the Iberian penisula prior to the 13th century
>prominently figure in the literature of the era
Nope, utterly irrelevant.
>>47473026
>12th Century Spain
I don't think 7th Sea is meant to emulate Moorish-conquered Spain.
Because the actually Spanish kingdoms at the time certainly weren't keen on jews. It wasn't long 'til Limpieza de sangre laws were enacted.
>Polish-Lithuanian Commonwealth
Even among them they were a large minority and not the drivers of the kingdom, that was Polish and Lithuanian Szlachta. I also don't think Wick would like the backlash considering the Civil War that followed and the Cossack pogroms enacted against jews in the aftermath.
>They certainly have a fucklot more to do with it than the Vikings
The "Vikings" are the Dutch in 7th Sea and even just one Dutch Renaissanceman can claim more influence on the Renaissance movement than the entire jewish people.
>and the Irish Wick's so in love with.
The Irish I agree with regards to the time period.
But really he doesn't seem to be trying to emulate the Renaissance, it's just another mish-mash setting.
Guys, 17th century, not 15th. Jews in Poland at this time are pogrom fodder. Rich ground for stories if you ask me, but possibly problematic to write about in a modern RPG. Too much risk of being accused of antisemitism if you don't depict them as martyrs or pandering if you do.
In the rest of Europe, they're either completely assimilated or completely insulated. Again, I think both may make for interesting character concepts (e.g. the military officer who struggles against a biased army hierarchy, the court scholar regarded with equal measures respect and disdain), but I wouldn't expect someone with money on the line to make that gamble by including them in the core book.
>>47473133
>holding the economies of entire medieval countries by the balls
Literally didn't own jack shit and acted as middle-men for the people who actually owned said money.
>being owed such debts by kings that wars would start over them
Again they were not the real debtors, hence why Kings could simply have them driven out to ignore debts to others.
>found in high ranking offices over the continent
In a minority of kingdoms, mostly Iberian, and certainly not all over the continent.
>pretty much all the science that happened in the Iberian penisula prior to the 13th century
Horseshit and worse still by the fact of the Caliphate occupation.
>prominently figure in the literature of the era
More horseshit.
>Nope, utterly irrelevant.
Correct.
Pic related is basically how Americans constantly act in regard to European history with regard to the Jews.
>>47473223
>In the rest of Europe, they're either completely assimilated or completely insulated.
Or were never present to begin with.
I know it's not the right time period, but I always hold Ivanhoe to be a great literary example of how to use Jews "right" in a historical European setting. Not devils, not suffering innocents, but mysterious, occasionally alluring, mistrusted yet with their own clear virtues.
And I know I'm gonna get Jew'd out of the room for saying this, but I honestly think The Merchant of Venice may be another good one. Shylock is, in my opinion, a sympathetic character. A villain, certainly, but not reprehensible, and very complex ("Do we not bleed?")
Then there's the early 20th century German film, The Golem, another excellent depiction of the Jew as an outsider who is nevertheless seen as wise, mystical and ultimately benevolent. Remember the film supposedly takes place in 16th century Prague. I could see similar events happening in 7th Sea.
We never will, because any mention of Jews causes an instant internet shitstorm, but you know. One can dream.
>>47473274
By the Renaissance, there were VERY few places in Europe Jews were "never present".
>>47473306
The solution is to make the Jews function not as a Nation but as a secret society. If you take the literary depictions of Renaissance Jews, the resemblances are uncanny. And I'm not just talking in the "hurr hurr Jewish conspiracy" manner, I'm talking about guys in funny clothes meeting in a secret basement several times a year to hold esoteric rituals because they'd get killed for them otherwise. Doubly so if you want to play the "mystical Jew" card hard and say they hold the ancient secret of life or something
>Jewish Golem sorcery
>>47473361
It also allows for a character to be "[member of a nation], except Jewish", which is far more realistic than trying to shove them in as their own race. Remember the gypsies weren't a nation in 1st ed, they were a detail you can tuck onto a character who is Italian, German or Russian and potentially pay some extra point so you can cash-in on the benefits of the heritage.
Make it so any member of any nation can be Jewish, but only if they're members of the Jewish "society" (i.e. initiated into the deeper mysteries of the religion) they get golems.
>>47473306
The Golem is more or less how the Jews of Germany saw themselves (German cinema was so overwhelmingly jewish at that point American cinema has nothing on it) and not really how Germans saw them, Hitler picked up his anti-semitism while in Vienna after all and there wasn't a politician who could make it there without at least some credible anti-jewish views.
The Merchant of Venice and Oliver Twist's Fagin is more the traditional representation of Jews by contemporary people, petty criminals and exploiters of children/women, although around Dickens time the English started portraying jews slightly more genial in plays.
The problem with adding Jews to 7th Sea is that the setting wasn't meant to accommodate them. I didn't read the 2nd edition preview and it's been a while since I've read any 1st ed books at all, but IIRC, in Theah, what basically happened is the Roman Pagans spontaneously invented Christianity. There was no monotheistic religion before that.Unless you decide to say that someone removed from history the fact that the First Prophet encountered the members of some ancient sorcerous tribe on his travels into the ancient Lands of the Crescent or something. It wouldn't be the first time 7th Sea did something like that with its backstory. Ahem, Sophia's Daughters and everything related to them, ahem.
>>47473322
There was still several, most of Scandinavia for example.
Travel and particularly settling was still restricted in large parts of Europe and many places that had them eventually expulsed them.
>>47472860
>mechanics were also a lot worse than fans pretend
So it WASN'T just me!
>>47473445
You sure about that? From what I know about Der Golem, only a single writer was Jewish, and neither director was. The producer is RUMORED to have been Jewish, but recall that this was before The Age of the Studio (started in America a few years after Der Golem). The producer had little power over the content of the film back then.
>>47473445
Still meshes very well with the atmosphere of 7th Sea, imho. Play the mystery aspect of Judaism up a few levels, have most Europeans regard them with more suspicion and less overt violence than in our own world, make their populations even smaller (but their political influence greater), and you get a hotbed of good plot ideas to pick from.
Thinking about it like this, it sounds like something Andrej Sapkowski would do.
>>47473479
Which parts? Because in Sweden they were recorded as sought after professionals at least as early as the 16th century, particularly in the field of medicine. Gustav I had a Jewish personal doctor, and it was seen as something "expected" from a smart ruler.
>>47473500
One of the Directors, and also a scriptwriter, were jewish on the first film. That's out of a crew of like 6 people though.
By the third film the Producer and half the actors were as well.
I'm with the "Vaticines are somewhat Jewish" guys. I imagine the training of a Vaticine priest is somewhat similar to that of a rabbi, for example, with the stated focus on learning debate and the whole "God gave us science so we can understand Him" philosophy (which is straight up the philosophy of Maimonides, one of the most important Jewish thinkers of all time).
>>47473589
From what I recall Sweden had hugely restrictive laws on where outsiders could settle, only allowing them in the three large trade cities and what few jews there were (in the low 100s) had even tighter restrictions on them.
Denmark didn't allow them in until Renaissance times and that was under special dispensation from the King, Norway didn't allow them into the country at all prior to the 1850s and Finland barely had any dealings with them at all to bother with until the 1920s since it was illegal for Jews to settle in their lands under Swedish law (which was still in force when they became part of Russia).
>>47473653
On the one hand, Jews never get tired of hyping up what a great guy Maimonides was. Okay, we get it, he was a theologian AND a philosopher AND a mathematician AND a doctor AND an astronomer and yadda yadda. I'm even willing to accept it as fact that he was extremely good at all of those things. He's way overquoted, though. He's like the Jewish Dante: stuff he made up about their religion is held up as canon today.
On the other hand, his philosophy WAS pretty badass.
>God created all physical things
>Therefore, to understand physical things is to understand an aspect of God's work
>Science is the means by which man understands physical things
>Therefore, science should be seen a sacred duty, a fit work for the virtuousOf course, what they often forget to mention is that he was an outrageous, "goyim are somewhere between retarded children and chimpanzees" type Jewish supremacist, and his next conclusion was that all Jews and only Jews should know science. But he was on sort of the right track)
Wait, what's going on? Is 7th Sea back?
>>47473722
Speaking of Jews and Russia, the 17th century was around the time Jews made a huge killing from the Russian fur trade. It got to the point where some kind of term involving "sable" was used as a slang for Jew. They managed to establish some kind of monopoly on bringing expensive furs from Russia to Central Europe, and it made a few Jews incredibly rich.
Even more funnily in 7th Sea terms, the capital of the Jewish fur trade in Germany?
Posen (that's a real city after which the Eisen konigreich is named).
>>47473589
Nonsense. Vasa is said to have had one jewish doctor at his court alongside other foreign learned people.
It wasn't until 1774 the first jew was allowed to live in Sweden on his own.
>>47473758
Yeah it was Kickstarted.
It's one of the most overhyped RPG games out there though, it's really nothing special and even quite bad in parts.
>>47473760
Yup. Pretty much all the Jews in Posen before the 19th century or so were involved in it somehow.
Anyone remember this CYOA?
Someone was freakishly prophetic with the Eisen sorcery there. It's from what, 2013? I mean, holy shit, it's even named almost the same.
>>47473760
>>47473827
It was a particularity clever operation since it took advantage of the biggest pros of Jews in both Russia and Germany. In Russia, fear of pogroms has been pushing Jewish communities deeper and deeper into the wild since the Middle Ages, making them proficient trappers and furriers almost as a side effect. In Germany, the laws and the nature of their community (superinsular, academic, etc.) has been shaping them into a culture of traders since the Middle Ages. For them to cooperate at some point and make a fortune was inevitable.
It is said that the greatest advantage of the Jewish merchant has always been that no matter where they went, they could always count on the assistance of the local Jews - and since there were Jews everywhere, that gave them a SPRAWLING network to rely on before they've even gotten their licenses.
>>47473728
I think older jewish writings aren't pushed much because a lot of it is honestly pretty barbarically ethnocentrist stuff that would put off a lot of the Americans and English philosemitists that otherwise brook no criticism of them as a group. (imagine say if any of the American Protestant groups were required to read the Talmud and come across the bit where Jesus is boiling in excrement for all eternity or where Mary, the mother of God and Theotokos, was an abused prostitute)
Same reason indepth discussion of Russian, Iberian and Polish history among Americans is never going to portray them as anything more than poor victims rather than another self-centered group like any other.
Although really that's not unique to jews and really goes for every currently favored minority group. You're hardly going to read about Kurdish bastardry now that they're in the zeitgeist just like you didn't hear about Tibetan slavery until they fell out of favour.
>>47473964
Dude lived in Medieval Spain. Between the Moors and the actual Spanish, dds are good everyone around him WAS a filthy barbarian. (that, and the Jewish persecution complex. You know the nerdy kid who convinces themselves nobody wants to be their friends because they're intimidated by their intelligence, rather than because they're unfriendly? Jews are that on an ethnic scale. The nerd may be genuinely a lot more intelligent than his peers, and the Jews WERE a lot more hygienic and learned than the average European throughout most of the Middle Ages, but this wasn't why they were persecuted. The Jews, meanwhile, wove an entire narrative to themselves about how they were surrounded by barbarians who hated them for being the smartest, which naturally evolved over the centuries into the uniquely Jewish brand of intellectual racial supremacy).
Circumstantial reminder that the history of the Jews in Europe is a highly complex, innumerably-layered subject which neither anyone on 4chan nor John Wick knows the first thing about, and that nothing good can ever come of discussing it without everyone being willing to do a lot of boring homework.Like, come on. This is fucking John Wick. Dude's a weaboo and a celtaboo and his knowledge of either Japan or Ireland is so laughable as to seem parodic. Do you seriously expect him to tackle a subject that charged and complex?
17th century Poland represented the birth of Jewish mysticism expressed within the Hassidic movement. Sounds like a Secret Society to me.
>>47473964
>racism is only right when it puts MY favorite ethnic group at the top of the food chain
can anyone share the book?
John Wick just threw away the dueling and naval combat mechanics, the best parts of 7th Sea, in return for including MORE mechanics to make Villain's laughably overpowered, including Japan, and black gay Spanish knights, and you're angry about JEWS?
>>47474237
I don't really consider racism to be right at all, hence why I react when some people pretend select minority groups are somehow immune to it despite proof to the contrary.
It all rather reminds me of Jingo by Pratchett, prolly cause of the other thread, where he makes the point a couple of times that being a minority doesn't preclude you from being a bigoted and/or scheming bastard like anyone else.
"Be generous, Sir Samuel. Truly treat all men equally. Aloow Klatchians the right to be scheming bastards, hmm?"
>>47474493
I don't think most of us care about 7th Sea to be honest.
I played it and outside of select parts of the Venetian and Castilian books I thought the rest was extremely shit in writing/execution.
>>47472051
>>47472088
Not overly difficult, just follow the steps.
1. Start with 2 in Brawn, Finesse, Resolve, Wits, and Panache; Spend 2 points on increasing your traits
2. Pick a Nation and pick one of the trait bonuses
3. Pick 2 Backgrounds
4. Spend 10 points on skills, can't go higher than rank 3.
5. Spend up to 5 points on Advantages
6. Pick any Hubris and Virtue (can mix and match)
7. Decide what will be done next to improve your character
8. Misc. extra stuff that's fluff/optional
So starting from the beginning, 2s in every trait. We'll spend the 2 points to bump up Finesse and Panache. For nation, we'll pick Castille, and take the +1 Wits option. Traits are now 2 for Brawn and Resolve, 3 for Finesse, Wits, and Panache.
For Backgrounds, we'll pick one of the general ones (Ship Captain) and one of the Castille nation-restricted ones (Destrecero). This gets us the following two quirks: "Earn a hero point when beating a trained duelist at their own game" and "earn a hero point whenever you're the last one in your crew to safety". One rank in the following Advantages: Fencer, Disarming Smile, Married to the Sea, Leadership, and Sea Legs. And then 1 rank each (since none of the backgrounds had any overlapping skills) in Aim, Convince, Notice, Sailing, Warfare, Athletics, Empathy, Intimidate, Scholarship, and Weaponry. For spending points for skills, we'll spread 8 of them around on the current skills, and 2 for getting a new skill (Theft) and taking it to rank 2. So now we're at 3 ranks for Convince, Aim, and Weaponry, 2 ranks for Notice, Theft, Sailing, and 1 rank for Warfare, Athletics, Empathy, Intimidate, and Scholarship.
>>47474562
But that's exactly the thing. Everyone pretty much ever has been racist. Everyone always thought everyone else was subhuman. The noble and gracious Greeks made barbarians out of everyone else. Each Native American tribe thought the other tribes were made of monsters. The Chinese wrote that there was no need for anyone to leave China since there was nothing outside of it. The Europeans brought racism to loltastic levels, not because they were particularly more racist than everyone else but because they were unusual in their power, which allowed them to APPLY it like everyone else could only dream of.
"Jewish racism" is just another meme conjured by Germans frustrated that Jews back then took all the doctorates. As Pratchett said, people are reprehensible in general, regardless of birth.
>>47472811
The setting has a ton of slaves in the not-Caribbean now.
>>47474628
For Advantages, we'll spend the 5 points on buying Duelist Academy and take the Aldana style.
For Virtue, we'll take Friendly (from The Road), so that when activated, when the character meets somebody for the first time, the person treats the character friendly for one scene. For Hubris, we'll take Curious (from The Fool) so that the character earns a Hero Point when investigating something unusual that might be dangerous.
For character improvement, you decide what you want improved, then come up with a story broken into the number of steps listed, and then when you finish the story, you get the improvement and make a new story. This is the most wonky part of character creation. But let's say the character is trying to turn their Scholarship into rank 2. So basically you have to come up with a story that has 2 steps, step 1 will be that the character learns of an exceptionally intelligent person and step 2 is that the character convinces the intelligent person to teach them stuff.
And then last real thing you do mechanically in character creation is decide what, if any, secret society you belong to.
And that's how character creation basically works.
>>47474654
Well than, maybe it'll have a ton of Jews in not Constantinople. It wouldn't be the first time 7th Sea did shit like that.
>Errr, of course Russia was always full of gypsies, we haven't mentioned them in any book so far because, err, they're really insular?
Gotta wait and see. Worse case scenario just tell your inner autist that in this history the Vaticine church has enough elements of Judaism it represents both religion. It seems to be the official stance anyway.
>>47474633
European racism was really more Central European racism, those with strong colonial holdings, when it comes to the historical view of black people and the Arabs were honestly much worse about it if you bother reading their Abbasid era and later stuff (you didn't hear similar stuff in the West until the Eugenics movement) on the "Zanj" or Dr. Livingstone's later reports on their treatment of black slaves during the Zanzibar slave trade.
>"Jewish racism" is just another meme
What? It's just as true as any other racism under the sun. That's the whole point, they're not any better or worse about it than other people groups.
For just one example their religious writings, which were naturally more important back in the day, are explicitly ethnocentric only leaving room for the future of non-Jews as servants to the Priesthood and old writings of them have them disparaging Kushites as black-skinned "slave people" who jews are barred from marrying for their unclean nature.
>>47474778
>For just one example their religious writings, which were naturally more important back in the day, are explicitly ethnocentric only leaving room for the future of non-Jews as servants to the Priesthood and old writings of them have them disparaging Kushites as black-skinned "slave people" who jews are barred from marrying for their unclean nature.
And how many Christian writings are there talking about how non-Christians are sometimes literal demons?
Soon as you make racism a bad thing, you really can't point a finger at any particular group for it. It's one of the most universal human qualities.
>>47474628
>>47474767
I feel like either this summary was already in the book and I'm just an idiot, or the book could really benefit from a concise chargen summary.
Thank you very much anon, I'll keep this in mind if the guy who runs 7S ever wants to do another game.
>>47474778
And yet, other Jewish texts talk about how a good Jew is one who loves and cares for all man, Jewish or goy. You won't hear about them on 4chan because they don't promote the right narrative.
The thing about religious texts, of ANY religion, is you can always find one to support whatever view of the religion you want.
>>47474812
>Soon as you make racism a bad thing, you really can't point a finger at any particular group for it.
Yes you can?
The fact that every group does it doesn't mean you can't point out specifically how they did/do so.
>>47474846
Case in point, Buddhists. Ultimate peaceful pacifists of peace, right?
Than you pick up something from 17th century Japan and find out Buddhism is about slaughtering Koreans.
>>47474858
>Poor white man only ever enslaved, genocided, and destroyed the cultures of other races. But those perfidious Jews dare to SEE everyone else as subhuman!
You aren't helping your case, bud
>>47474918
As I said here >>47474633, everyone is equally guilty of racism, both the "we are better" and "they are worse" kinds, to an almost equal degree. It's a universal human emotion. Europeans just had the good/bad luck to be the group most historically able to act on it.
Jews, it may be said, almost never did (at least until the 20th century), which depends on your point of view either makes them better or worse about it. I tend to side with the less violent group, so I would call the mostly intellectual, most self-contained Jewish racism pre-Israel more moral than the more "active" White European Racism, but I could see why someone would see it the other way around.
>>47474918
>poor white man
>literally not mentioned anywhere ITT
Oh, so you're just a projecting retard.
The notion that jewish people can also be guilty of ethnocentrism triggered you did it?
>>47474973
>I never said white people were better, I only said nonwhites were worse
Please, go on, bubba
>>47474995
No, but the idiocy of someone saying it's worse to THINK of other people as subhuman than to actually enslave or kill them for it is pretty annoying.
>>47474979
>Jews, it may be said, almost never did
Actually there's a fair bit of bigoted writings from them from ancient Egyptian times and onward. Anti-Black skin colour from the time of Ancient Egypt, Anti-Roman from before their expulsion with Josephus being considered a traitor for being somewhat neutral in his texts along with Sicarii terrorism, Anti-Christian and so on.
>most self-contained Jewish racism pre-Israel
Depends on the group you're looking at. Radhanite slavetraders aren't exactly the same as Russian furriers who aren't the same as German craftsmen. But the same goes for Europeans with most of the "White European Racism" actually being English, American, French, Belgian, Portugeuse, etc racism. They're not the same as East Europeans who are not the same as North Europeans who are not the same as non-colonial powers in the South etc.
>>47474979
This famalam.
Related.
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tbud8rLejLM
>>47474999
>nonwhites were worse
Again literally said nowhere ITT. Keep on projecting though.
>>47475022
So the few groups who did that were worse than those with sedentary racism. How does that to relate to everything else discussed exactly?
>>47474979
It should also be noted that Israeli racism, particularly the most violent examples of it, is actually a lot less religiously based than most would assume. It's mostly ethnic and (more than anything else) territorial.
European imperialism and massive genocide are Jewish lies, America has always been inhabited by Anglo-Saxons, Pizarro dindu nuffin, this is fact, /pol/ said so
>>47475184
Hurrdeedurr take it to reddit or wherever else strawmanning faggots like yourself are welcomed nowadays.
>>47475192
>wherever else strawmanning faggots like yourself are welcomed nowadays.
he's already on 4chan, anon
The more you read into this shit, the more fucked up you discover. Jews are seriously the least of your problems, folks. Go over to the Kickstarter page and watch the shitstorm that erupted three hours ago about Wick declaring that "Heroes do not commit murder. Ever."
>>47476252
Yup. It's not in the spirit of the swashbuckling genre for a hero to kill someone except in self-defense, didn't you know? Revenge stories? What are those? Are you sure those weren't really villains?
And what is it about killing people for the greater good? This is the swashbuckling genre! It promotes nonviolence! There's no such thing. And what is it about wanting to play assassins, spies, political schemers, soldiers, pirates, highwaymen, or any other character whose story may heavily revolve around killing people? No swashbuckling tale has ever been told about those!
Swashbuckling is the genre that's about being Sufi ascetics and thoughtfully munching on lettuce, right?
- John Wick
>>47476578
7th Sea 2nd Edition emulates the highly specific genre of politically correct, morally upright, nonviolent swashbuckling tales in which no questionable issues are raised. A vast body of literary works exists to support it, consisting of absolutely nothing.
>>47476623
>we Golden Sky Stories with pirates now
>>47476578
>>47476623
>>47476639
What's more amusing is that knowing John Wick, future books are going to be choke full of his darling metaplot NPCs, and they're all going to be murderous heroes, because rules are for players, silly (and because Wick is such an edgy fedora tard he cannot possibly resist making characters like this. Keep your eyes open for the righteous anarchist who kills evil nobles but is nevertheless objectively a hero).
Are the French equivalents still awesome? Can I still mount a guillotine on the stern of my ship and be a floating execution ship for the elimination of the scourge of aristocracy?
>>47476678
Heavens, no. That'd be killing them. Heroes don't do that. You're supposed to convince them to stop being so mean to the peasantry, or something.
I want to be a viking pirate wizard
On the less horrible side, the new sorceries are for the most part not retarded. Sorte managed the impressive fit of becoming less useful than it was before, and all the cool shit you could do with Glamour has been replaced with a bunch of knock off Excellencies in Knights of Avalon (what a retarded name for a sorcery type), but on the plus side, the new Sarmatian sorcery is plenty cool and I'm very positively impressed with how he revised the Ussuran one.
It's also interesting to note there seems to now be a lot less focus on the genetic basis of sorcery. Of the 6 types presented in the book, 3 are individually granted by supernatural entities on a case-by-case basis, and there's no real indication genetics got to do with it. Definitely a shakeup to the previously held conventions of the setting (e.g. sorcery=nobility).
Anyone else got the feeling that in some kind of bizarre attempt at compensation (possibly to the infamously vocal fans of the idea?) for not including Poland in the previous edition, Wick went out of his way to make it as awesome as possible and kind of fucked it up? Like, "these guys are the awesomest, bestest, most moral, smartest, coolest, noblest dudes in Theah, they do all the cool things, their magic is both the most detailed, most overpowered, and most inviting of special snowflake anime character types, their personalities are all heroic and great...
I thought he kept that sort of treatment for the Irish.
>>47471666
Is there more homo kisses in the core book or is this going to be the best thing about it?
>>47477278
None that I've seen, although there is a fairly modern interpretation of a black knight in the court of Avalon.
>>47477342
While modern, not exactly new. You gotta do something truly crazy with Avalon to make it a unique interpretation.
>>47477391
I get it, he's the black knight because he's black
is anyone gonna share it?
>Russian culture still revolves around Baba Yaga
When will this stupid fucking meme die. You wouldn't take seriously a France expy whose people all fear, revere and worship Little Red Riding Hood as the core of their culture, right? Than why fucking Baba Yaga everywhere all the time?
>>47477879
Baba Yaga is mean and vicious
>>47477879
because things can only get worse
>>47478060
>>47478097
http://archive.4plebs.org/tg/thread/47279555/#q47281538
refer to thread
The "Heroes Never Kill" thing is some truly spectacular bullshit. Telling that it looks like they're going to delete the discussion from the Kickstarter as "trolling".
7th Sea: A Game of Swashbuckling Pacifists
Tagline: The Swords Are Just For Show
>>47478254
>Heroes Never Kill
Wait, what's this now?
>>47478334
Heroes never kill ("Never". Wick actually repeats that in the sentence, like the pretentious twat that he is), except in self-defense. "Villains kill". Killing earns you automatic Corruption points and will haunt your hero forever. Heroes should never kill because that's a villainous thing only villains do. GMs, if the heroes kill, consider turning them into villains.
So says John Wick.
There's currently a heated argument on the Kickstarter comments page involving his supplicants attempting to justify this bit of retardation by claiming that "the swashbuckling genre is highly idealistic, so there should always be a way to win without killing".
This is a thing now.
>>47478382
Also, yes, you heard this right: revenge stories, possibly THE prototypical swashbuckling plot? Not Heroic. Gotta have the villain stab you first or you're committing evil, evil murder and GM takes your character sheet from you.
>>47478382
>>47478407
But I love to murder
>>47478466
Than you're a villain. You don't get to play.
What rampant faggotry.
>>47478407
By it's very nature a revenge story already has the villain attacking first. Just you've taken a few years and an elaborate adventure before you got the chance to attack back.
>>47478741
I want to see this one being used in court.
>"You honor, my client claims self-defense. The victim has insulted them, GRAVELY, back in the seventh grade. He HAD to die."
>>47473102
>Apparently, a focus on scholarship in religion is a purely Jewish trait, and all of those priest scientists were flukes
Nah man, it's just someone who doesn't know fucking shit about late medieval/ Early Renaissance and Northern Humanism.
Does anyone have a link to the pdf preview?
>>47478382
>>47478407
Egh, it's dumb, but you can easily scrap the Corruption mechanic from general play and make it only come into play when a character is using Sanderis.
>>47477855
>>47478975
I have to skim through mine, double check it isn't watermarked or anything, but I'll try and upload soon.
>>47478254
>>47478382
>>47478407
>>47478819
Who do you trust when it comes to swashbuckling stories? John Wick or Alexander Dumas?
Aramis kills a nobleman outright in a duel because the fellow demanded to know his actual name before deigning to cross swords with him. Admittedly, Aramis promised to kill him in order to preserve the secret of his name before telling the nobleman and he asked to know anyway. Why put this in The Three Musketeers? because it's part of driving home the idea that, to these men, honor and valor are held to be more dear than life. It's part of the glamour of the genre.
>>47480022
If John Wick wasn't a mouthbreather, he could just have the vanquishing rules work like Feng Shui: you can choose to spare or kill someone no matter how implausible it would seem.
The Heroes Never Kill thing could just be on killing innocents or letting them willfully come to harm. But that makes too much sense and people in the Elfgame industry are mostly idiots/terrible people.
Alright, here's the preview.http://www.mediafire.com/download/y6lf316s8enln8d/7th_Sea_-_2e_-_Core_Rulebook_Preview.pdf
So how would you overcome the most common complaint about the game, namely the mismatch between starting stat-lines and basic difficulty? Boost character gen? House rule reduced difficulty tiers? Not be a bad GM/Git Gud Scrub?
The method my group favored was let the drama die flow freely for everybody so if it mattered you could throw down in a suitable fashion. Drinking copious amounts of wine also helped make even the most mundane failures funny enough to be palatable.
>>47474072
>Irish = Celts
That's cute.
They are neither Keltoi nor are they closely related to the Scots, Cymru, or Britons.
Genetically they are basically island Basque.
>>47480118
Must I trust either?
Dumas wrote good fiction. But it treads some very not light hearted and very gray moral territory times.
But at the end of the day, want Dumas, buy a Dumas book. Want Wick, buy a Wick game.
I feel like I like 1st edition much more because I know nothing about history. To me it's just a vaguely familiar fantasy setting with a lot of good plot hooks.
I don't understand why you guys hate the rule system anyway, it pretty hands off and it does the job.
>>47483208
Many people believe that it screws starting characters because the sample NPCs in the books are so much more powerful. To which I remind: the sample NPCs in the books are not meant to be encountered by starting characters, they're final bosses and campaign movers and shakers. You wouldn't diss Exalted as a high fantasy game just because starting characters can't hope to challenge Mask of Winters? No point in wanting your starting 7th Sea characters to be able to challenge Fauner Posen or Giovanni Villanova. It's not even in the spirit of the genre.
>>47484027
It also stems from a misunderstanding of the genre. People claim that swashbuckling heroes are over the top, so it's shit that the game doesn't give you enough points to start with Full-Blooded Sorcery, a Swordsman School, a Heroic Virtue AND above average traits... Like, what? When did "swashbuckler" became "unbeatable warrior-wizard"? There's more than enough points to be ONE of those things right off the bat, or even combine them if you're willing to settle for being a master of none. What kind of game lets you start off good at everything?
>>47471666
Whew those trips
>>47484724
Strangely fitting, given the content.
>>47484027
>>47484615
What are considered the other problems with the system?
>>47485434
These are by and large the main ones. Many people have problems with the setting (such as an over-reliance on metaplot, the abundance of Mary Sue-ish "writer's darling" NPCs, the aforementioned lack of equivalents for certain cultures and/or places considered important for the setting, etc.). Was far more blatant with the first edition, which didn't even include such a thing as the Americas, a particularly bizarre design choice for a game which sells itself at least to a significant degree as a "17th century pirates" game.
So... is there a pdf for non-backers? Somewhere?
>>47485434
I'm biased, because I loved the old game, even when reading it often became an excersize in driving oneself insane, but I think it generally looks amazing. It's taken the good ideas of the first edition and made them better, and removed most of the really bad ideas that overtook first ed as it aged. In general, and just based on reading the new book, not actual play, i'd say there are very few actual issues here.
>>47485633
Well there's >>47480266 but if you mean legit? No, not yet, it's not out. This is just a preview. A preview that's like 95% of the finished book, but still. Considering how badly i've been burned by basically every RPG kickstarter I've ever gotten involved with, I'm super impressed with the speed and quality on desplay here. I still think they're absolutely gibbering mad if they think they're gonna do a hardback a month through 2017, but at least we're not waiting three years to see the first sign of a finished book.
> This special kind of warfare — mimeme warfare (from the Numanari word meaning “an imitation,” also the root for the word “mime”) — puts the Freethinkers at odds with ideas and concepts poisoning the human spirit.
MEMES, SON.
>>47484615
I think part of the issue is that it's very damn hard to get INTO those things later in the game. A very high base buy in means that you don't have the choice to have just a hint of something at a lower cost.
Like, if I want to do exactly one thing with Glamour I need to buy full blood glamour mage and get ALL the glamour stuff. You also can't buy into magic after the game starts and buying into a Sword School is multiple years work with apprenticeships.
I ran into this when I tried to make a character that was based around the 'Goes fast' Myth. I didn't want to do anything with Glamour other than use that one myth and otherwise be a pirate gunslinger.
I was just trying to make 'The fastest gun about'. But that meant buying Rogers School (For the ability to quickdraw at all) and Full Blood Glamour.
But that's related to my issues with Half-bloods. I think they'd have been better if they were 'You do a limited number of things compared to a full mage but you do them just as well as a full blood' rather than 'You have a lower cap with everything'. It would make them more attractive for those who want to tred multiple paths.
>>47473728
That philosophy was the reason behind medieval bestiaries written by catholic priests and monks.
It went more or less like this: God had his teachings passed to us through two books. The Bible and the World. Both had to be understood so one could understand the words of God. That's why medieval gryphons' descriptions and the like included moral lessons.
>>47485856
You're not supposed to get into them later int he game. Sorcery is a character defining trait (unless you buy it as Half-Blooded, a viable and extremely useful option faggots always seem to be ignoring because they'd rather whine that the game is unbalanced) - it's so important that literally the second mechanical step of character creation, right after picking your nation, is "do you want to have sorcery?". A character either is or isn't a full-blooded sorcerer, and if they are, than that's the Big Thing they can do (unless you pick full-blooded sorcery at character creation only to go and invest every XP you earn from then on buying stuff like Swordsman Schools, which is a pretty wasteful use of them).
So, never exactly dealt with 7th Sea, but from the looks of it is is mean for Jolly swashbuckling scoundrel adventures. Do the rules mix with the narrative ?
Ladies and gentlemen, /pol/:
>The Jews have never done anything relevant or important
>Unless we need someone to blame, in which case they control all of human civilization
You can't have it both ways, folks. The guys are either meaningless or all-powerful, and you're idiots for either fearing them or disrespecting them, depending on which it is.
>>47486329
Yeah, so you run into the issue people have when they want to make characters of 'I'd like a little specialist magic on an otherwise martial character'.
Half Blooded really doesn't work for that. It's 'You are mediocre at the entire magic group'
That character example, how would you make it in 7th Sea? You literally can't quickdraw without a Sword School and you won't be exceptional at it without the 'Faster than you' Glamour.
Yet the concept is rather simple and archetypal at the core. The quickdraw gunslinger.
Also: Seem to be ignoring? I expressly addressed the issues with Half-blood in the previous post. In that it's mediocre at everything for many magic types when it could easily be made more attractive by specialization.
>>47486406
...not particularly well in either edition.
The issue is that John Wick doesn't tend to get the genres he tries to emulate.
1e works decently if you give people some extra starting points so they can play Zorro or the Scarlet Pimpernel rather than 'A competent but not very notable warrior'
Part of the issue is that the NPCs don't really follow the same rules as they expect PCs to work.
>Swordsmans schools are notable and impressive and not a common thing
>Every single notable NPC has at least one, many have more than one.
>>47486501
But that's not a concept the game is meant to support. It's niche and weird, and it certainly isn't the game's fault. In fact, it's not even that undoable - "a little specialist magic" is possible to do with almost every kind of sorcery EXCEPT Glamour. You're just frustrated that this single extremely specific character concept which wasn't meant to work within the game's setting isn't possible.
(which is also wrong, by the way. Pick Full-Blooded Glamour sorcery, put a 2 in every attribute, choose a Hubris and take the Rogers school. You still have a whopping 13 points to spend as you wish. Is the character optimized? Certainly no, but neither is it mechanically useless, and it does do that extremely specific thing you were so desperate for it to do).
>>47486484
Nobody's talking about that anymore, we've move on to talking about the game system.
Speaking of which, I really do think all traits should start at 2 automatically and that's what I plan to do for the 1st edition game I'm about to run.
>>47486594
Than you're not aiming for your players to be playing swashbucklers, you're aiming for them to be playing Exalted.
>>47486586
>It's niche and weird
A guy with a pistol is a weird concept in a swashbuckling setting?
>>47486501
What are you on? For a mere 3 points you can take the Quickdraw Pirate Trick, making your character able to draw and fire in a single action. Combine with Combat Reflexes and a high Panache/Finesse and you got a non-schooled reasonably good gunslinger.
>>47486609
That's a hell of a leap of logic to throw at the guy.
>I want my players to start off with an Average baseline
>You want to play completely over the top animu god fighting!
>>47486630
A guy who's entire shtick is "he uses an obscure type of high level magic with a pistol" is weird, yes. You weren't complaining about not being able to dump a lot of points into Firearms, because you can do that, you were complaining that the game won't let you dump all the points you want into the one single Glamour Knack which does that extremely specific thing AND also into a variety of other things. And I've proven you wrong even in that. You can totally build the character you want, it would just not be mechanically optimized. Not even shitty or anything: just not as powerful as it could be. That's the price you pay for basing your entire character concept around a single knack. If that concept is important enough to you that you don't care that your character could be better at other things, than it's not even a problem.
>>47486660
That "Average Baseline" translates into giving each player 40 extra points at character creation, which effectively translates into offering each player Full-Blooded Sorcery for free (or almost two swordsman schools, or the equivalent, for that matter). You're wonking the power level of the game to high heavens with that.
Before you go about offering "fixes" for game mechanics, make sure you understand those mechanics.
>>47486939
I think that didn't occur to him because he took it for granted that the average hero would have a 3 in all stats. No wonder he thinks 7th Sea characters are underpowered.
>>47486939
It costs 48 points to start a player at 2 in everything, and it's already heavily recommended that every player start at 2 in everything.
I'm also intending to change the knack system so that you can put points into a skill and all the basic knacks will increase simultaneously. I suppose that would make the party omniscient deities then?
Dudes, the Player's Guide has SEVERAL PAGES dedicated to nothing but giving new players advice on how to build mechanically viable characters, some of which is extremely valuable (don't buy advanced knacks at creation, invest in a lot of skills because each one grants you more free knack ranks per point spent, don't underestimate Academy/University, etc.)
If you're not rabidly fixated on the idea that your character has to be an omnipotent sorcerer king from the get go, you can build some very powerful starters but putting ten seconds' thought into the mathematics. Vastly more so if you use the Destiny Spreads in the Nation Sourcebooks, which tend to give characters benefits amounting to 6-8 extra points on average and sometimes more.
>>47487011
Nope. Read the book again, or retake maths. You start with a spread of 1,1,1,1,2 owning to your nation bonus. It costs 32 points to start with a 2 at everything, or 40 to start with a 3 in one trait and 2 in the others, which is the recommended amount for specialized characters like sorcerers. Swordsman can definitely afford two 3's, more so if they take a Hubris.
>>47487046
Actually, with a spread of 2 at everything you can pull of some ridiculously broken combinations, like Unabwendbar Commanders with Dracheneisen AND Man of Will AND a Virtue. Not to mention all the bullshit from the Montaigne Sourcebook.
>>47487126
You just need to make sure to have high knacks at the few skills you want to be good at. Mechanically speaking it pays off a lot more to have a couple of 5k2 or 6k3 skills at character creation than to try and get all of them at 4k2. Another reason why one of the most cost effective means is to buy University than get a shitton of overlapping skills for the free starting knacks (e.g. Courtier, Performer and Servant instantly boosts like four different knacks to 2 and gets you a plethora of other ones for the cost of just three skills).
