>tfw this is a barely fluffed event and so Black Library can't retcon it to hell
Feels good man. It's almost like the old days when they gave us new stuff instead of just retconning the old.
>>45033984
>retconning
Now there's a word I've come to hate. What's wrong with aiming to tell stories?
It seems these days everything is out to create a defining narrative history of their fictional universe, complete with footnotes. The reward for reading is that you get to know the order in which everything happened, like some historian versed entirely in the magical history of a bunch of plastic men. It takes itself so seriously. Why not just write stories about characters in the universe going somewhere new, finding something new and wrecking its shit?
Who cares whether Horus was wearing red underwear or blue? Who cares about the specifics of a planetary assault or the year it took place? Just write something entertaining.
And advance the setting for once. I don't even care if it gets Age of Sigmar'd.
>>45034331
You're shit, dude.
>>45034877
>>45034911
Suck my diiick!
OP here,
I guess this thread is about as constructive as I could've expected.
>>45035717
I can't event tell what the topic is supposed to be.
>>45033984
>tfw this is a barely fluffed event and so Black Library can't retcon it to hell
You underestimate Black Library.
Remember to bid farewell to the Imperial Fists.
>>45033984
So having read the first two and really enjoying it so far, I feel there's an important lesson for readers to take away from it.
In universe, no one knows any of this happened. Any sort of historical accounts from this era were either purged a dozen times over by various political and religious regimes, or are buried amongst so much other minutia that it would take an individual a hundred lifetimes to find even a mention of it in the records of the administratum.
Out of universe, Black Library's finally been allowed to move away from only releasing stories that are direct product tie-ins and this is the fruits of that. I'd expect more in the future.
>>45034331
There's a nine story Deathwatch short series that's exactly what you're looking for.
>>45036056
You mean the Imperial Fists legion that's already been dead for 1,500 years at that point? Or the 2nd founding chapter who has exactly the same legitimacy of being called Imperial Fists as the original chapter?
>>45036139
The OG Fists Chapter.
Dead.
Thanks Fagnett.
>>45036179
So let's go back to the 2nd founding for a second. You've got a whole bunch of guys in yellow. All of them are Imperial Fists. Some of them paint themselves Black. Some of them paint themselves blue and red. Some paint themselves grey. Some don't paint themselves any color. Are they still all Imperial Fists?
>>45036222
>Are they still all Imperial Fists?
No.
>>45034331
Stories change all the god damn time. Do you people even know how many versions of King Arthur there are. This idea of a fictional canon is brand new and frankly, it's kind of weird. To the vast majority of human history, all of our pointless bickering about canon would come off like we think it's real or something.
>>45036263
Blame the brilliant but idiotic concept of "Intellectual Property".
>>45036222
Dorn specifically split the Fists in a very special way. The Chapters created where all very different to each other, with the Fistly core remaining the Imperial Fists.
They are all dead now.
>>45036301
And yet the Fists that Dorn assigned, were never known to anyone. Every single story you've ever read about the Imperial Fists in M41, that's not them.
>>45036301
>>45036355
This is some serious Major Major Major Major shit.
>>45036355
>Every single story you've ever read about the Imperial Fists in M41, that's not them.
Yup that's the retcon.
>Old canon
>These are the Imperial Fists
>Abnett Canon
>The Imperial Fists are not really the Imperial Fists but rather they are some new second founding Chapter I pulled from my ass
What a shame, poor Fists.
>>45036222
So let's go back to the 2nd founding for a second. You've got a whole bunch of guys in yellow. All of them are Imperial Fists. Some of them start recruiting from Rynn's World. Some of them start recruiting from Eschara. Some recruit from Eidolica. Some of them say just crusade my shit up and recruit fucking everyone from everywhere they go. Some keep recruiting from Terra and Inwit. Are they still all Imperial Fists?
This shit is stupid as fuck. Just like, why? What does it add?
>>45036461
What does it take away?
>>45036455
Considering the Imperial Fists legion most likely recruited from all of those places as well, yes they are. As long as their geneseed stays the same.
>>45036461
It explains why the Imperial Fists in M41 love to hump the codex just as much as Ultramarines, while maintaining that the true Fists remained set in their ways until the end.
>>45036483
I bet you think Flesh Tearers are people too.
>>45036522
Flesh Tearers, yes. Flesh Eaters, no.
>>45034331
It's an Imperium of a million worlds spread loosely across the galaxy that has stood for 10,000 years. If you want to make up your own damn story, go all the way and make up your own damn characters.
You don't have to write fanfiction, but when you do it is your responsibility to get shit about the already extant storyline correct.
If you want to write a story about a serious, short, thin Space Wolf with a sarcastic nickname about his size don't just shoehorn Haegr the Mountain in there. We know Haegr, he's so big he needed custom crafted armor to contain his bulk and is mirthy as fuck. You're looking for Grimfang the Giant or some shit like that.
>>45033984
>It's almost like the old days when they gave us new stuff instead of just retconning the old.
pic related. The Fists say hi
>>45036736
The difference is there were characters alive who would know the prequels. There aren't any who would know the events of The Beast Arises, and any record would long since be destroyed.
>https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=gIuotFZnBtk
To the Fists!
In the end it wasn't the Iron Warriors that got them, but an incidental effect of an Ork spaceship.
Good night, sweet Fists.
>>45036777
The Emperor knows.
>>45036811
Don't worry. If the rumors are true, the Iron Warriors (who have established a base on Phall) are going to get wrecked by the waagh! as well.
>>45036854
But will they be exterminated?
>>45036875
>But will every Imperial Fists successor be exterminated?
That's what you're actually asking.
>>45036056
I wouldn't say it's a retcon, we never had any fluff I can think of that says the Imperial Fists were never destroyed and replaced.
So it doesn't violate the spirit of OP's post.
However, the way fagnett killed off the Fists was really shitty. They were practically killed off as an after thought.
>>45036954
>I wouldn't say it's a retcon, we never had any fluff I can think of that says the Imperial Fists were never destroyed and replaced.
We've also never had any fluff saying that the entire universe isn't just the imagining of some faggot dog somewhere in Texas, but if that was to suddenly be inserted it would be a hell of a retcon.
>>45036942
No, I think I'm quite clearly asking whether the Iron Warriors will be exterminated.
>>45037030
You mean will 50,000+ chaos marines who are spread across the galaxy be exterminated, compared to 1,000 marines on one planet, then no. They won't.
>>45037030
>The Iron Warriors get wiped out
>The rest of the Iron Warriors at Medrengard go to Phall and get wiped out too.
>Turns out the Iron Warriors of M41 are a Chaos Warband called Iron Soldiers that turned traitor shortly before the story that Perturabo adopts
>>45037077
>They won't.
I hope you're right anon, no one deserves to be fagnetted like the poor Imperial Fists were.
>>45037084
And this explains why they now follow the Codex Abaddon.
>>45037144
You're acting like Abnett has never killed off major characters before. Get over it.
>Dan Abnett
>Writing space marines
>Expecting something good
IIRC, he was the one who wrote the Space Marine movie, and, well, we all saw (or didn't) how that came out.
>>45037186
The novel overall is good. Just the space marine parts are bad.
>>45037178
>You're acting like Abnett has never killed off major characters before.
Well he did brutalise the Alpha Legion in Legion, but he never killed them, this is bold, even for him. Poor Fists.
>>45037217
>The novel overall is good. Just the space marine parts are bad.
What? The rest of the novel is incredibly dry and features such gems as retired assassin who comes back to being an assassin and bumbling Inquisitorial henchman.
>>45037217
Exactly. Abnett doesn't do space marines well.
Just have him stick to IG or Inquisitors, or hell, maybe even Sisters. Sisters could use some love (or maybe not, depending on the overall lamentations in this thread).
>>45037277
>Sisters could use some love
No one should want love from Black Library. It's all shit, been that way for years now.
>>45037233
Fuck you, Legion was awesome.
>>45037270
And the first stories that have ever been written about the High Lords of Terra.
>>45037365
The first stories to ruin the High Lords of Terra.
>>45037365
>And the first stories that have ever been written about the High Lords of Terra.
And spectacularly poor ones to boot!
The Halls of Terra are really just high school cliques! Amazing, bravo Abnett!
>>45037343
No, it was shit and it reduced the once proud Alpha Legion into the Meme Legion.
>>45037410
>Just like real world politics!
>>45037437
This
>>45037437
Except that every legion was a meme legion long before the HH series.
>>45037546
I'm not even an Alpha Legion fan, but I understand their problem.
Before Legion AL was some spec ops legion, now it's a bunch of dudes that don't even know if they're loyalists or traitors anymore.
This is basically a whole-new story. The only thing known is that the Beast nearly destroyed the galaxy. Anything else can be done
>>45037595
>This is basically a whole-new story.
Fucking shame that this has become a Black Library novelty.
>According to a recent poll there are 16 present-day Black Library shills on /tg/
>16! That's more people than are in this thread
>>45037588
Those two things aren't incompatible. The story The Harrowing shows that quite clearly.
>>45037652
OH I'm sorry. I'm sure you'd love to have more stories about the Wraithknight and the Riptide and the Centurion.
>>45037410
Yeah, but this is exactly how everybody expected them to be.
>>45037455
That's not how you greentext, and no, politics are nothing like high school cliques.
>>45037701
I may have expected the eminent writers of BL to write them like that, but it's got nothing to do with how I picture them.
>>45037699
If it meant bringing in new fluff-blood into the setting, sure; rather than just endlessly retconning what came before.
Not even Alexander in Space is safe from Black Library's shit.
>>45037734
I was told the Macharius serie was actually quite good.
>>45037659
>Those two things aren't incompatible.
But one is cool, and one is lame.
I AM ALPHARIUS
BUT WAIT I'M ALSO ALPHARIUS
XD
Abnett committed gross character assassination of the Alpha Legion and just outright assassinated the Imperial Fists.
>>45037652
yfw according to that poll, most fa/tg/uys just pick and choose what they like anyway. Yet they would still rather yell about how Black Library is ruining their setting.
Is /tg/ that boring otherwise?
>>45037705
Then either you didn't go to a large high school or you've never experienced politics, either in an actual political arena or in an academic/industry setting, because the two are near perfect matches to one another.
>>45037786
That's because William King wrote them, and even he fucked it up at the end.
>>45037795
So I'm guessing you haven't read any of the four other Alpha Legion stories set in the Heresy that don't have any of that.
>>45037903
Every single thing William King wrote in 40k is complete garbage.
>>45037937
Yup. I'm not giving another penny to BL's Horus Hereshit. I'm proud to admit that.
>>45037828
>Is /tg/ that boring otherwise?
>>45037989
>not Horrid Hereshit
missed opportunity anon
>>45034331
I understand your sentiment, because at the end of the day fiction is just entertainment, but can you also not see that there's some value to be had in planning your stories out ahead of time ingeniously so that everything makes sense in an "oh shiiiit" way, a long time down the line? And can you also not see how aggravating it can be when a previously established story with a lot more potential is thrown out the window and replaced with something dumb? I'm arguing in the name of the entertainment value. It can be diminished by a crappy creative/editorial staff who give no shits. You don't need to have solid continuity for every fiction franchise. In fact, it works in favor of some to give canon the middle finger. But there's SOME sort of thought and planning put into even that. When the whole franchise is just run by committee and trends, it just turns into a mess of continuous lameness.
I also disagree with your assessment of the state of fiction in general. Almost no series of any sort care about continuity. It's one of the hardest things in the world to write because it requires so much planning. Most stuff just runs with a cool idea in the moment at the very best, or at worst writes in whatever dumbshit narratives reel in idiots through shock value (the equivalent of clickbait in journalism).
>>45037953
He did wonder with gotrek and felix.
At least 3/4 of bl books should be mulched for recycled toilet paper.
>>45036510
Index astartes already did that.
That was the entire point of the Iron Cage.
>>45037546
Thanks to Dawn of War, but the Alpha Legion lost what character they had.
Fuck, they got an extra primarch because reasons.
>>45037953
>Space Wolf Quadrology
>Deathwing
>Wrath of Kharn
>Devil's Mrauders
>Garbage
You, sir, are wrong.
>>45036875
>>45037030
No, anon, just decimated.
>>45040760
Iron Cage split the legion. Following the codex is completely different. Compare the Imperial Fists in the first book to the Fists Exemplar in the second. The latter are organized identically to an Ultramarine successor, whereas the former are anything but.
>>45037588
The whole loyalist or traitor thing started before the HH series.
>>45042244
needs more lelf
>>45041954
>Iron Cage split the legion. Following the codex is completely different.
u a dummy bro
>Compare the
My point is it's changing things for the sake of changing them (and to obviously up the stakes by blowing up a first founding chapter). The codex business was handled WHEN DORN WAS STILL AROUND, not centuries after all the primarchs fucked off.
That was the entire purpose of the Iron Cage, for Dorn.
